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Re: Fw: (rshsdepot) Buffalo, NY

An article I read years ago mentioned that the PRR started using Central
Terminal when it opened in 1929 or 1930. My 1943 Official Guide also shows
this. I would sure like to see a picture of the interior of the old LV
station!
LaVerne Brummel, Fitchburg,WI
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Henry Priebe Jr." <root_@_net.bluemoon.net>
To: "RRStations" <rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: (rshsdepot) Buffalo, NY


>
> That would make sense at some point in time as PRR controlled the LV, but
I
> can't contribute date to the equation other than that arrangement would
have
> ended prior to 1955 when the LV sold their downtown line to the Scott St
> terminal to New York State and the terminal was razed to make way for the
NYS
> office building. After 1955 the PRR definitely used Central Terminal.
>
> That said, I have seen many photos of PRR K4s on passenger trains at
Central
> Terminal which leads me to believe that their usage of Central Terminal
may
> have pre-dated 1955 by some years.
>
> I have spent a lot of time studying old maps and aerial photos of the
Buffalo
> area and I just don't know how PRR trains to and from Harrisburg could
have
> gotten to the LV's terminal in downtown Buffalo which was reached by an
> elevated right of way after the grade separation projects of the
mid-teens.
>
> LV entered the Buffalo area on a right of way which paralleled the DL&W's
City
> Branch from Ogden St near the city line to DM Tower at Seneca & Bailey
where
> the LV swung overhead of the DL&W and PRR's at grade crossing. To the best
of
> my knowledge there was never any ramp from the PRR to the LV at this
location
> in the westbound direction in post grade separation days. There was an
> _eastbound_ connection which led to LV's east Buffalo yards, but this
would
> have required an over two mile long backup move to reach LV's terminal.
From
> the PRR-DL&W crossing at DM the LV ran above grade over streets and
railroad
> trackage all the way to the terminal.
>
> The PRR from Harrisburg continued west from DM tower through FW tower and
> crossed the Central's main line at Tower 49 which later became tower 49A
near
> North Division and Emslie Sts. Fron there the Pennsy ran alongside the
Central
> into downtown. For the PRR to get to LV's terminal that way they would
have
> had to cross a myriad of NYC and Erie trackage which served both passenger
and
> freight facilities in downtown Buffalo. I don't think that route was very
> practical, but it may have been possible.
>
> Just west of FW Tower the Erie did have a connection ramp with the LV
> passenger main, but I don't see any direct westbound connection from the
PRR's
> Babcock St yard area to the Erie's line to downtown and the LV
interchange. It
> could have been accomplished via a lengthly backup move and some
disruptive
> routing by the FW operator.
>
> PRR trains from Pittsburgh to Buffalo took an entirely different route
into
> town. That single track line and the Nickel Plate's Chicago main were
> combined and shared by the two roads as double track from Brocton into
South
> Buffalo. Trains from this direction could have made it to LV's downtown
> terminal via a circuitous route from Blasdell via LV's freight main.
>
> The LV's freght main to the Tifft St yards did cross the PRR's Harrisburg
> main a couple miles east of DM Tower, but it was overhead and I have never
> seen any evidence of a connection at that location in either maps or
aerials.
>
> I'm absolutely baffled as to how PRR would have routed HBG trains to LV's
> Scott St terminal or what years they might have used that facility. I'm
not
> saying I don't believe they did, just that I can't figure out how unless
they
> backed in from all the way out past DM in southeast Buffalo.
>
> I guess I need to find an old-timer to explain it!
>
> I have seen Grand Trunk mentioned as an LV tenant once, but I haven't been
> able to verify it. That routing would have been via Niagara Falls which
the LV
> accessed from their branch off the mainline at Niagara Junction to their
> trackage rights over the NYC from Tonawanda to Niagara Falls where they
had a
> good sized yard for many years. That was the route of the "Maple Leaf" of
> course.
>
> Henry
>
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, tonydawson1 Dawson wrote:
>
> > The PRR used the LV station in Buffalo.
> >
> > When I was a young boy in the fifties, my family took the Pennsy from
Wash
> > DC to Buffalo. My only recollection of the trip is walking down steps or
a
> > ramp to get to the main station. Later as a railroad employee in
Buffalo, I
> > became familiar with Central Terminal and could not reconcile the
Central
> > Terminal layout with my recollection. I finally saw a picture of the
> > interior of the LV station which confirmed my recollection.
> >
> > Tony Dawson
> J. Henry Priebe Jr.    Blue Moon Internet Corp Network Administrator
> www.bluemoon.net       Internet Access & Web Hosting
> www.railfan.net        Railfan Network Services
>
> =================================
> The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing
> railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org
>


=================================
The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing
railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org

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