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RE: (erielack) Re: REA Traffic

Lackawanna Lance makes an interesting observation about the role of #7 (the "Pacific Express") and #8 (the "Atlantic Express") in the Erie/EL passenger operation.  The diesel-era Erie (I grabbed a June 14, 1953, Form 1 for this exercise) operated three passenger trains each way between Jersey City and Chicago, 997.7 miles:
            #1, "The Erie Limited" Lv JC 830 AM EST, Ar Chicago 655 AM CST, 23'25" elapsed time, 
            #2, "The Erie Limited" Lv Chicago 5:00 PM CST, ar JC 555 PM EST, 23'55" elapsed time
            #5, "The Lake Cities", Lv JC 730 PM EST, ar Chicago 355 PM CST, 21'25" elapsed time
            #6, "The Lake Cities", Lv Chicago 925 AM CST, ar JC 725 AM EST, 21'00" elapsed time
            #7, "Pacific Express", Lv JC 1140 PM EST, ar Chicago 1225 AM CST, 25'45" elapsed time
            #8, "Atlantic Express", Lv Chicago 1000 PM CST Sunday thru Friday, ar JC 1025 PM EST, Monday thru Saturday, 23'25" elapsed time 
            #80, "Atlantic Express", Lv Chicago 1000 PM CST Saturday, arr JC 1055 PM EST Sunday, 23'55 elapsed time  
The Erie was clearly not the fastest passenger service between New York and Chicago--that honor belonged to the NYC's "Twentieth Century Limited" and the PRR's "Broadway Limited".  However by the use of three trains each way in what was a 21' to 26' running time corridor the Erie provided convenient daytime service on the east end, west end, and middle of its railroad and convenient overnight service from the east end to Chicago and from the west end to New York.  Would that Congress would permit Amtrak to do as well.
Consider the following:
              #1 was a "daytime" train from JC to Youngstown (arr 1046 PM) and a convenient overnight train from there to Chicago
              #2 was a "daytime" train from Chicago to Marion (arr 1134 PM) and from Meadville (Lv 548 AM) to JC
              #5 was a "daytime" train from JC to Binghamton (arr 1230 AM) and from Jamestown (Lv 615 AM) to Chicago
              #6 was a "daytime" train from Chicago to Hornell (arr 1151 PM) and a convenient overnight train from there to JC
              #7 was a "daytime" train from Binghamton (Lv 536 AM) to Chicago 
              #8 (and #80) was a "daytime" train from Chicago to Rochester, Ind. (arr 12:00 Midnight) and from Ashland (Lv 530 AM [548 AM on Sunday) to JC
It is well to recall that at this time each of these trains carried Sleeping Cars and Dining Cars on the following arrangements in addition to coaches:
              #1 Sleepers: JC to Chgo
                                  Salamanca to Chicago
                                  Youngstown to Chicago (open for occupancy at 830 PM)
                                  Akron to Chicago (open for occupancy at 830 PM)
                   Dining Car JC to Chicago
              #2 Sleepers Chicago to JC
                                 Chicago to Salamanca
                   Dining Car Chicago to JC
              #5 Sleepers JC to Chicago
                                JC to Cleveland (in #605 from Youngstown to Cleveland)
                                JC to Salamanca (may be occupied until 730 AM)
                   Dining Car JC to Chicago
              #6 Sleepers Chicago to JC
                                 Cleveland to JC (in #606 Cleveland to Youngstown)
                                 Salamanca to JC (open for occupancy at 930 PM)
                   Dining Car Chicago to JC
              #7 Sleeper JC to Hornell (open for occupancy at 930 PM)
                   Dining Car Binghamton to Marion
               #8 Sleeping Car Chicago to Akron (open for occupancy in Chicago at 830 PM CST, may be occupied at Akron until 800 AM EST)
                                       Chicago to Salamanca (open for occupancy in Chicago at 830 PM CST)
                    Dining Car Ashland to JC
In addition to the above trains the Erie also operated #27, "The Mountain Express" daily from Jersey City to Binghamton (Lv JC 130 PM, arr Binghamton 7:50 PM) with coaches and a JC-Binghamton Diner-Lounge.  An unnamed train #28 ran daily except Sundays and holidays from Binghamton to JC (#28/280 on Sundays and holidays only) but was apparently coach only at the time.
In any event the triple-play of trains in each direction provided great service to the end-points and convenient Daytime trains over great portions of the railroad.
MJC   
 
                

 
> To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net
> Subject: Re: (erielack) Re: REA Traffic
> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 21:39:07 -0500
> From: intercityrailpal_@_netscape.net
> 
> 
> 
> 7&8 or 3&4 not carrying passengers was a major blow to EL passenger service. One of many. Since it unbalanced the timetable times. Some towns ended up 
> with bad arrival times. People avoid traveling during the witching hours of 12M to 6AM. That's why today, major cities like Cinncinnati and Cleveland have middle of the night arrival hours to try and control demand for service. They know what their doing. Lackawanna Lance 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Davids <g.davids_@_verizon.net>
> To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net; Smtimko@aol.com; doctorpb@bellsouth.net
> Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 6:55 am
> Subject: (erielack) Re: REA Traffic
> 
> 
> Trains 3 and 4 were still in the schedule in Erie Lackawanna Railroad Company Time Table 7 of October 29, 1967. No. 4 arrived Hoboken 10,35 P.M., and No. 3 departed Hoboken 1.15 A.M., via Port Jervis. They did not carry passengers, so they were not listed in the Official Guide. 
> 
> My copy of New York and Scranton Divisions TT No. 7 was used by my predecessor at Hoboken, John Nobilksi. He kept it current with notes from the General Orders, so it looks like 3 and 4 ran during the life of TT No. 7. My Erie Lackawanna Railway Company Time Table No. 1 of April 28, 1968 includes General Order N-1-36 of October 27, 1968 that replaces all of the schedule pages on the New York Division, so I don't have the original schedule pages of No. 1. Nos. 3 and 4 are not listed in the General Order schedule pages, so it appears that they were discontinued either with the issuance of TT No. 1, or sometime before the General Order was issued. 
> 
> I transferred from the D&H to EL in late November, 1968, and 3 and 4 were gone by then. 
> 
> Gordon Davids 
> 
> >> 
> In a message dated 12/23/2010 5:56:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
> doctorpb_@_bellsouth.net writes: 
> 
> The closest estimate I can come up with 
> is with my 7/67 OG, from which nos. 3&4 are absent. I suppose that doesn't 
> necessarily mean it wasn't running then, as it was strictly M&E. 
> 
> ............. 
> Train #7 and #8 generally had one of these PB flats as the head car daily. 
> 
> Train #7& #8 were changed to #3 and #4, Mail and express only (with rider 
> coach) effective 7/6/65. I don't know what date #3 and #4 last operated. 
> 
> SMT 
> 
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