[Date Prev][Date Next]
[Chronological]
[Thread]
[Top]
Re: (erielack) DL&W-NKP Through (Passenger) Car Service at Buffalo
In the 1950s, as a kid, I did get to ride several times from Cleveland
to Scranton via the NKP-DL&W. The train we usually took east was the
New Yorker (#8) and came back on Phoebe-NKP (#5). Living on the west
side, not far from Lakewood, we always got on the train at Terminal
Tower and never Rocky River (for some reason). I only remember riding in
a NKP coach all the time (but wanted to be in a Lackawanna car and never
seemed to get to do that). We never had a sleeper or ate in the diner
(bringing our own food). Once my dad took me back to the Tavern Lounge
for a Coke and I got to look out the back of the train which was
exciting. I always thought the caps on the NKP conductors were really
classy with the two gold bands around the base of the cap (see EL Color
Guide p.10); Lackawanna conductor caps were rather plain. It was always
a sensual thrill to board the train in Scranton because westbound Phoebe
came in under the train shed (Track 1) and there was the steam coming
from under the cars and the concentrated smell of diesel and hot
brakes. To a little boy it was all so wonderful.
I did a little write-up on Cleveland-Buffalo a few years ago.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielack-digest/200702/msg00165.html
The train trips ended in 1960 when my dad got a job with ground service
for American Airlines. After that we did a few CLE-BUF-AVPs. To be
honest too, we drove many, many times (12 hours over Route 6), but
that's another story.
Mike Oravec
> Donald
> I rode to/from Buffalo on both the DL&W and EL the end of passenger
> service. Only rode west on the NKP a couple of times and that was not as a
> through passenger. In the early diesel years (I picked August 1954) the DL&W
> operated four trains daily each way to/from Buffalo. None of them were thru
> trains with the NKP or NYC (look at the Detroit sleeper--that took some
> fast switching and hustling to get it across town to/from the NYC) but some
> carried through cars which were switched from the inbound DL&W to the
> outbound NKP or NYC. Lets take a look:
> Westward (as the DL&W termed westbound trains)
> #3, The Phoebe Snow, arr Bflo 550 PM Dly with a Hoboken-Chicago sleeper
> and Hoboken-Chicago coach connecting to NKP 5 lvg Bflo 630 PM Dly
> #5, The Twilight, arr Bflo 105 AM Dly except Sun (ran as #25 arr 125 AM
> Sun) with a Hoboken-Detroit sleeper connecting to NYC (MC) 47-375 lvg Bflo
> 215 AM
> #7, The Westerner, arr Bflo 350 AM Dly with a Hoboken-Chicago sleeper and
> a Hoboken-Chicago coach connecting to NKP 7 lvg Bflo 420 AM Dly
> #15, The Owl, arr Bflo 1135 AM Dly. Carried no through cars.
> Eastward
> #2, Pocono Express lv Bflo 320 AM (ran as #4 Sun & Holidays lv Bflo 320
> AM) with a Detroit-Hoboken sleeper arr Bflo 950 PM on NYC (MC) 44
> #6, The Phoebe Snow lv Bflo 835 AM Dly. Carried no through cars.
> #8, The New Yorker lv Bflo 1000 PM Dly with a Chicago-Hoboken sleeper and
> a Chicvago-Hoboken coach arr Bflo 935 PM on NKP 8
> #10, The New York Mail lv Bflo 430 PM Dly with a Chicago-Hoboken sleeper
> arr Bflo 1140 AM on NKP 6
>
> NKP trains operated into LaSalle Street Station in Chicago. This was
> their original Chicago station. In Buffalo the NKP originally used Erie's
> Michigan Avenue terminal and moved into the DL&W's new (and final) Bflo
> terminal in 1917, all IIRC. Over the years the DL&W station was used by the
> South Buffalo, Wabash, and BR&P-B&O besides the NKP, DL&W, and EL. The NKP
> thought that it had enough business on its Bflo-Chgo trains to keep them until
> its merger with the N&W (16 Oct 1964). The NKP was in competition with
> the faster and more frequent NYC at Cleveland, Painesville, Ashtabula, Erie,
> and Dunkirk, with the PRR at Fort Wayne, and the PRR, NYC, Erie, and B&O at
> Chicago. The through sleeper and coach service was certainly convenient
> in avoiding the cross-town transfer to the NYC at Buffalo. Those of you
> that attended the ELHS convention in Owego a couple of years ago may recall a
> presentation I gave on the "Wreck of the Lackawanna Limited at Wayland on
> August 30, 1943"!
> --several of the women steamed to death in that tragedy were New York City
> office workers in the through DL&W-NKP coach (coincidentally an NKP coach
> that day) going to Westfield NY to help pick grapes on their vacations to
> help the war effort. That coach BTW still exists and is used in Midwest
> Railway Historical Foundation charters.
> Sorry to get afield--hope the above addressed your questions.
> MJC
>
>
>
The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
http://EL-List.railfan.net/
To Unsubscribe: http://Lists.Railfan.net/erielackunsub.html
------------------------------