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Re: (erielack) A controverial topic? :)
On 2/19/07 1:25 AM, "Njricky2_@_aol.com" <Njricky2@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> You make interesting points. I often wonder whether or not the EL merger was
> a good thing. I think that they had no choice in the end because things in
> the industy were happening quickly.
>
> From what we see in hindsight, DLW and NKP could have been a good
> combination. They had their interchange at Buffalo and then could go west. As
> one, they
> might possibly have been a major factor of stabilty within the industry at
> that point in time.
>
> Erie on the other hand could have formed, without a merger, an affiliation
> with Santa Fe. They were both in the position to do so. If that took place,
> that would have given both a trans-continental railroad without having to
> answer to the ICC. Again, the Chicago interchange.
>
> Erie had lousy management from Day 1. The "corporate ones" who controlled
> Erie were into making money, not into running a railroad. It's surprising that
> Erie did as well as it did and overall, it did very well. Erie turned out to
> be "a survivor". Erie competed with PRR and NYC and did so efffectively.
>
> Lackawanna on the other hand, had for the most part, very good management
> but again, it was a much smaller railroad and much easier to manage as
> compared
> to Erie. Although it was smaller than Erie and others in the Northeast, it's
> feats are uncompared. DLW was the shortest route between NYC (Hoboken) and
> Buffalo. They did it well.
>
> I too am a bit road-biased as you say. I grew up with Erie in Scranton and I
> remember very well the black and yellow. It was a very powerful look, as was
> DLW with maroon and grey.
>
> You're not over simplistic at all. Had they managed things properly when
> they became one, yes, freight should have travelled via Erie and passengers
> via
> DLW. The DLW route was much more populous than Erie.
>
> The people who worked for both and then for the comined railway, I think
> never became one. There are others on our list who can refute this and I'd
> sure
> like to hear them tell us otherwise.
>
> Anyone out there who can tell us if Erie and Lackawanna employees actually
> put differences aside and worked for the success of Erie Lackawanna?
>
> That's a story that as far as I know has yet to be told.
>
> Rick
>
> In a message dated 2/18/2007 8:25:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> paultup_@_comcast.net writes:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> While out and about today, I got thinking while driving home (never a good
> thing ;) about the DL&W and its grand place in the railroad world (this line
> of thought occurred while I was driving alongside the DL&W on Route 80 in
> Mount Arlington, NJ). The DL&W only ran between Hoboken and Buffalo (with
> several
> branches), and from the start, the big "cash cow" on the road was its
> anthracite traffic. It's what helped fund all the Lackawanna's engineering
> masterpieces and turned it into a "super railroad" (as it's been labeled in
> several
> magazine articles). But after the anthracite dried up, it had a harder time
> with standard manifest freight since it's western terminus was Buffalo, not
> Chicago. Granted, most of the Chicago-bound traffic went via partner NKP, but
> was this a result of myopic thinking on the part of railroad management? PRR
> and NYC both had through roads from the NYC market to Chicago, and they took
> a
> lion's share of that traffic. Instead of spending all that money o!
> n its v
> arious engineering projects, would it have been more prudent for DL&W to
> build or acquire a line between Buffalo and Chicago to compete for the
> lucrative
> NYC-Chicago traffic market?
>
> Yes, the various engineering projects did help to increase speeds and reduce
> train transit times, but perhaps some money could have been used for
> expansion. Granted, by the time the DL&W got into thinking about this (such
> as a
> potential NKP merger), it was already too late, but if they had approached
> this
> tact much earlier, could they have been successful?
>
> And just so I'm not perceived as "road biased," I thought a similar question
> about the Erie. Why this railroad, that had great high-wide clearances and a
> line from the NY market to Chicago, go through so many bankrupties and was
> only able to get a small portion of that traffic, compared to its NYC and PRR
> competitors? Was the Erie so cash-starved (and in bankruptcy) that they
> simply couldn't improve its main line to make it more competitive with the
> other
> roads?
>
> Thoughts like this make the EL merger even more interesting in my mind, but
> again, "too little, too late." It's interesting that EL's sales people
> finally began to capitalize on the advantages of its NY-Chi line by capturing
> lucrative UPS traffic. It just seems that the DL&W and Erie had two
> fundamentally
> different problems, but if a merger happened "way back when," (and if you
> took the strong feelings of the two roads' employees out of the picture),
> could
> they have been a successful road? The DL&W's money could have been used to
> improve the Erie main from Binghamton-Chicago, bringing it up to "Lackawanna
> standards" and making it a more competitive road, and the Erie's line opening
> up the Lackawanna's former west end of Buffalo. Or am I being overly
> simplistic?
>
> Just my random thoughts for the day. :)
>
> - Paul
>
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>
>
>
>
>
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Unfortunately, NKP was concerned about the massive DL&W debt right from the
beginning. That's what really ended the whole matter. DL&W tried several
times to gain control of the NKP and even get people on the NKP BoD but to
no avail.
Bill H
The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
Sponsored by the ELH&TS
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