(erielack) Re Erie F-10 2-6-0 pix & paint

[Hhaines_@_aol.com]

Dear Bill K:
Sorry I took so long to respond, I've been very busy at work so have not 
watched this list closely, and cannot tell if anyone has responded.   

I found the Class F-10 photos on pages 84 and 85 of Erie Power to which you 
refer.  Built in 1894 just before the Erie reorganization, and off the roster 
by 1928. 

Paul Carleton's 1988 Erie Railroad Story, page 20, middle, has a photo of 
Class F-10 #741 in storage in Kent Ohio, in 1920.  It has a better angle of 
the tenders put on these locomotives.  

Using that view, if I were to model these, I would use the IHC tender on 
their camel-back (mother hubbard) mogul.  

What to paint it is another project.  The Diamond Volume 7 almost doesn't go 
back far enough.  In addition to Erie Power and the Erie Railroad Story, I 
also checked Paul Carletons 1970 The Erie Lackawanna Story, Ed Crist's Erie 
Memories,  the 1899 edition of "Between the Ocean to the Lakes" by Mott; Erie 
Railroad in Color, and Larry DeYoung-Robert Collins Erie Trackside.   

Looking at other locomotives for the various time frames provided me the 
following information, with about 3 different tender paint schemes (A, B, and 
C below) possible on these Class F Moguls: 

A.  The 1884-1895 era, pre-Erie Railroad reorganization

Tenders seemed to have the locomotive number in the center of the tender (as 
well as the cab side), sometimes with a large box around the entire side of 
the tender.  The initials of the various railroads were found on the top of 
the tender on the coal side boards or on the tender itself.  Page 85 of Erie 
Power shows how the tender started as the Erie & Wyoming Valley Railroad #35 
with the tender lettering as "E 35 WV" in large numerals.   

Erie did not purchase the E&WV outright until 1901 (Crist page 5, Erie Power 
p 80).  Some of the F-Class and early locomotives were decorated elaborately, 
with as many as "17 coats of lacquer" (Mott, 1899, page 375, engine #8). 
Among other things, I discovered in Mott that the Erie ran strawberry trains 
from Bergen County, New Jersey and Rockland County, NY-- a 10-car train 
carried 80,000 baskets of strawberries in 1847.  There was also a "Thunder 
and Lightening Milk Train" on the southern tier.  And as we have heard about 
before, Erie ran some of the first sleeping cars (the Diamond cars, 1843, 
named Erie and Ontario, page 389, From the Ocean to the Lakes)--but I 
digress.  

Different Erie-controlled subsidiaries wore different paint.  For example, 
the NYSW commuter engines had white stacks with red tips in Jersey City so 
that they could be found in the line from a distance (Lucas, 1939, The 
History of the New York Susquehanna and Western).  I could not find any 
reference to such differences.

B. From 1896 to 1900:
The newly reorganized Erie Railroad had new and rebuilt Erie locomotives 
appear with "Erie Railroad" on the tender side, sometimes outlined with a 
single-line box on the tender side.  The IHC #23164 Mother Hubbard 2-6-0 Erie 
#310 is lettered with this style of "Erie Railroad" in imitation gold without 
the box. IHC used a squared-off Railroad Roman that I found on only a few 
locomotive pictures. Similar lettering can be found on the side of a newly 
rebuilt Baldwin #370 a 4-4-0 in 1896 (The Erie Railroad Story, page 74 and 
73, and in Erie Power pages 222, 223, and 227).   Locomotive pilot and driver 
tires appear to be white in the loco builders photos.  

C. Between 1900 to 1921, before the Diamond:
The photos show new and rebuilt locos simply with "Erie" centered on the 
tenders (see page 75 in Carleton's Erie Story, or in Erie Power pages 94, 
226, top of 242).  There appears to be two types of fonts used for "Erie," 
but printed material in "Between the Ocean to the Lakes" appears to use a 
form of extended Railroad Roman with small trumpets on the ends of the "E" 
and "I" (I know there is another term for that part of the serif font).  This 
type font also appears more often.  It is probable that this class of 
locomotives were repainted n this scheme when they were shopped to add 
electric headlamps and other modernization in the 1911-1912 time frame.

In this 1900-1921 period, the engine class number appears on the cab under 
the locomotive number (Carleton, page 20 and Erie Power, page 217).  Driver 
and pilot wheels are white as are the running board edges.  There is also 
some print on the domes (Carleton, 1988, page 22 and others). I recall this 
is covered in the Vol 7 article in the Diamond (as the word Erie or the loco 
number on the sand dome), and appears to be the first scheme described in the 
Diamond. In 1922, Erie started using the Diamond on the locomotives--but it 
was the Berkshires of 1927 that had the modern "ERIE" in the Diamond.

Early descriptions list the locomotive lettering as "gold,' (Mott, 1899, 
Between the Ocean to the Lakes).  Other descriptions around WWI list Erie in 
white letters (Carleton, 1988, The Erie Story--or maybe it was just WWI and 
URSA).  

From the above review, I suspect that the locomotives of Class F-10 never 
wore Erie Diamonds.   The fixed tender was replaced with a 2-truck tender 
painted like the IHC tender with "ERIE RAILROAD."  After Eire bought E&WVRR 
in 1901 the F-10 class was lettered "ERIE."  All three locomotives were on 
the roster in 1913, but Erie Power states (page 79) that all Class F 
locomotives off the 1928 locomotive roster.  
The photo on the bottom of page 84 was probably taken in 1910-1912 because it 
still has the oil light and wood foot boards.  The 1920 photo shows an 
electric headlight, and a steel pilot.  

I hope this helps.  If anyone on the list has additions or corrections, 
please let me know.

Now I have to find the name of colors of that paint I used on the diesel 
handrails---

Howard Haines
ELHS #1447
 

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End of EL List Daily V3 #857
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