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(erielack) Bounced message (wrong format?)

From: "Douglas H. Crosby" <dhc_@_open.org>
To: "'erielack'" <erielack_@_lists.railfan.net>
Subject: Layout /Salamanca
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:41:28 -0000


Listers,=20
	I've followed the postings, made input a couple of times, and asked for =
help a couple of times. Finally composed a letter about my layout =
answering someone else, and then decided to share with/ impose on (?) =
all of you. I welcome comments from anyone.
	I grew up in Little Valley, NY - born in Salamanca in '49. Like so many =
modelers, I guess that is sufficient to explain my choice of RR. My =
earlier layout is an 8'x8' fold up that I take out to shows - free =
lance, western Oregon setting. A few years ago I came across a copy of =
"Men of Erie" in a local used books store, and decided to shift my =
emphasis to my "Hometown" line. The original main line (Dunkirk Branch) =
at Little Valley was right at the back of my Grandmother's property- =
that house was "home". I model in HO, in part because of sentimental =
attachment to an Athern steam loco I've had since my dad and I started =
planning a layout about 1962. I like steam - so, a little research  =
quickly said I needed to be not later than 1952 on the Erie mainline! A =
little earlier than my childhood memories, but acceptable. When I found =
info about the '51 Centennial I settled on that year, so I can include a =
real old timer and stay "prototype" real!
	I'm not a "Rivet counter" - my philosophy runs more to " plausible =
representation " and "recognizeable suggestion" --but I do enjoy the =
research and finding out "what was" to reach that. I've read a lot of =
the MR articles arguing point to point  realism, but I also know from a =
dozen years of involvement in train shows that people like to watch =
trains run - the fine points of a switching move seem lost on most show =
visitors. My tastes split the difference. I want to provide the realism =
of operation and the "let the trains run" possibility. In planning my =
Erie layout I was aware of the status of Salamanca as a (4 way) division =
point, and considered some kind of double point to point X configuration =
- - but that dosent "let the trains run" very well!  Then it occurred to =
me that in reality (??) , while the individual RR section IS point to =
point, the freight car traffic patterns aren't. For the Erie , its NYC =
- -Chicago p2p  is matched North and South by the NYCentral and Pennsy - =
thus Erie Loco's and equipment  need to shuttle p2p, but the other cars =
might well come thru Salamanca two or three time  in the same direction =
- - without ever going "Back thru".=20
	Of course a good staging yard takes care of that, but it wouldn't solve =
the "let the trains run" half of the problem. I finally decided that I =
wanted to put that division point  X inside a circle, -- then the "Only =
Problem" was working THAT into available space in some effective manner. =
 Available space in this case has turned out to be a 27', two door =
Travel Trailer. (Still thinking train show potential.) I have come up =
with a three level layout, with a walk thru viewing area- in one door, =
out the other - with a 1/2 wall separating guests from the operating =
side. Lower level is a loop built into that wall and expanded to a 10 =
track (max about 16') staging yard on the far side. The loop provides =
switch lead and run around for the staging --NEWCAGO--. Trains leaving =
the left (New York) end can also climb (again in the wall - exposed to =
operators, hidden from guests)  to the main level . Just before reaching =
level track the train is in a scene visible only from outside, in the =
front window of the trailer. This scene is done in fall foliage- to =
present one of the reasons for visiting the area.
	 These trains come into view around a curved backdrop at "East =
Salamanca", which I'm representing with the B&O's Salamanca Station. =
(Currently the Salamanca Rail Museum) with the freight house, two short =
freight spurs, and two short pass spurs. (That old Athern steamer =
happened to be a B&O Pacific - guess where it goes!!) Our Westbound Erie =
then is in the main section of the layout, main (center)level. Erie =
Salamanca station, roundhouse, freight house, coal tower, etc -- all to =
be modeled-- with "a bit" of selective compression of course. For =
example , I plan to keep the 4 tubs of the tower, but with only 1 , not =
2 tracks under each half. I have copies of plans of the yard with major =
(outline) dimensions of structures to work from, and what photo's I've =
found.=20
	Leaving  Salamanca our train can either go onto the Dunkirk Branch or =
stay on the mainline . The mainline swings wide into a small separate =
scene again visible only from outside (side window behind the door where =
visitors will enter) . This scene is planned to be a winter scene. =
Inside, its summer. Inside the curve of the mainline, and visible in the =
trailer will be my representation of Little Valley . I've got Photo's of =
Gray Milling , the station , Bordens Milk, Cattaraugus Cuttlery (All =
rail service) and of course Grandma's house to try and work in here!
	Both mainline and Dunkirk Branch then run(as if double track main) =
across the top of the half wall right past the viewing aisle-gives about =
8' of tangent double track--before they diverge at the exit door end of =
the wall. Here both tracks pass thru the curved backdrop mentioned =
earlier. That backdrop hides the main control panel and most of a =
16'circumfrence helix from the viewing aisle . The mainline enters the =
helix headed down, thus representing westbound traffic to Chicago, =
arriving at the right hand, Cago end of the staging  yard. This is , of =
course also the path taken by trains Eastbound, from Chicago to NY. (The =
main level Salamanca scene has both mainline tracks to handle =
"Prototype" operations, with freight house, yard, and service tracks =
approximating real track configurations.)
	We've now got the Mainline , configured to represent point to point =
operations   in and out of Salamanca to and from "NewCago", and allow =
continuous running. The lower level loop is 60' around (one scale mile =
HO, Right?) with the lower level yard, but so far I have just a =
temporary single track to go thru the main scene (Haven't spent enough =
money on turnouts yet!!!!) I have about 300' of track down so far.
	Back to our train, on the Dunkirk Branch-- This track goes thru the =
backdrop entering the helix up-bound. From here on, benchwork is all =
that is in place. Track will climb the helix to the top level, about 8 =
inches below the ceiling of the trailer. Halfway up I'm putting in an =
almost full turn passing siding, with the outer track brought back thru =
the backdrop on a shelf. With a short spur, this will become my =
suggestion of the helper at Dayton Hill. At the top of the helix I have =
planned a reverse loop, all the way around the trailer, passing over the =
two doors.
	Our Dunkirk Branch train comes back into view for visitors on a shelf =
above "Dayton Hill" then continues above Salamanca - hope to suggest the =
steel industry of Buffalo here somehow  (Yes I know !!! Buffalo was B&SW =
line, not Dunkirk Branch, and climbing Dunkirk Hill on the B&SW was in =
the opposite direction -to, not from, Salamanca. Sorry. I claim modelers =
license!! I couldn't make everything work .) Buffalo will give me a =
destination for coal trains out of Salamanca, which of course originated =
on the Bradford Division.=20
	A couple of passing tracks at "Buffalo" should allow the full coal =
trains to continue on the reversing loop around the trailer, or sending =
traffic back down to Salamanca. (A spur to a turn table behind the =
backdrop will allow turning of steam power for the return run)=20
	Those full trains on the reversing loop will be behind a backdrop, =
because they are sitting there staged for the last element of my  "X in =
a circle" idea. This half of the top level reversing loop, back to the =
single track helix down - crosses over the trailer doors, thus above and =
behind visitors who have come in . There is 8' between the doors, and =
about 2' for each door. This will be my model of the Kinzua Bridge, =
- -signature structure for the Bradford Branch. (In HO that 12' is less =
than 1/2 what I need to be "accurate", but should be enough to say " Big =
Bridge" fairly well!!)  Coming down the helix, using the mid-helix =
siding to avoid the Dayton Hill scene, our full coal train will enter =
Salamanca correctly, from East Salamanca, past the B&O Station. =
Obviously, empty coal trains can travel the helix/reverse loop in the =
opposite direction to complete the traffic pattern. And, since this is =
all tied into the lower level staging, coal trains to New York or =
Chicago can be made up at Salamanca and then "become" the train arriving =
at Buffalo without going back thru Salamanca .
	With a few other spur sidings to local industry I think I will have a =
"reasonable representation" for the area and for operating potential. I =
have Digitrax, and am working towards decoders in my motive power. I =
belive the track plan, (even allowing for the tight main operating aisle =
-From one end of the trailer to the other) could keep 4 or 5operators =
busy. I have a duplicate sub panel for switching the lower level at the =
back end of the trailer : 1 operator making up trains for mainline runs =
there. 2nd op.- standing in the visitors aisle, running mainline . #3- =
in main aisle working Salamanca  #4 dispatch at main control panel =
(inside helix)  #5 local in and out of Salamanca, B&O, Dunkirk/Buffalo =
- -- though where to have that person could be a problem , if the =
Salamanca yardman/NewCago yardman  do some "brakeman" work #5 operator =
could be in the visitor aisle also.=20
	Alternately, at shows, and when alone, one person can run the layout. =
I'm using Peco turnouts. I like the combination manual/ remote potential =
at a more or less reasonable price. I can either " Work a local" walking =
around, or run multiple trains to keep visitors entertained while =
staying out of the scene.
	Another part of my thinking involves educating train show visitors. =
With the restricted viewing area (from being in the trailer)  I =
anticipate a waiting line (at least if I do a good job!) so I am =
planning display panels to hang along the outside (no door side) of the =
trailer with photo's, historical info, original Erie documents, etc -- =
to keep people busy in line.=20
=09
	I've been collecting timetables, books, photo's etc. A couple of trips =
home have involved trips to the Salamanca Rail Museum, photographing the =
existing situation/stuuctures . As I said, most of the books have little =
info about the area. I have been able to glean things like loco #'s from =
some sources to help identify which equipment is appropriate to the =
area/time (like the Baldwin 6 axle diesels) and the scheduled Passenger =
trains are of course listed. What I don't know much about are things =
like frequency of / consist of freights; locals and mainline, =
worktrains, frequency/type of local setouts etc.
=09
	This turned into a major letter - hope I haven'd imposed on you to =
badly.=20
					Doug
=09

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