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Re: (rshsdepot) NY Stations That Never Were
One of the oddities I saw in the railroad ads or notices in the 1893 Eagle
was the NYC line about GCT being their only station in New York City.
Leaving out that they even mention 138th Street and obviously had other
stations in the Bronx (I think some of southern Bronx was already part of
New York City by then), there was and still is 125th Street, and at that
time the west side passenger station on the Hudson line was still used as a
commuter station....
I will also say that I justify my research delving because I think over the
last few years I have found some interesting stuff, some of which I
personally never heard about before, or seen the maps, such as the landfill
to Governors Island and the big rail terminal at the Battery. I am not so
sure many have scoured all 15 or more newspapers from the city and Brooklyn
and Queens; even if they have they may have missed something, who
knows...anyway I actually enjoy dusty stacks and moldy microfilm...
I also want to find pictures of the Union Depot at the El railhead in South
Brooklyn, I am sure there are lathes somewhere..I also have been searching
for the Lutheran Cemetery station on Metropolitan Avenue on that dummy line
that ran there (and still does sort of as the M train of the subway..
Now I also know to look in 1899 for the elusive agreement between BRT and
LIRR....and, no I still really haven't thought up a reason that BRT had any
reason behind such a pact....but it is possible that LIRR rapid transit
might have expanded, though I presume they didn't just charge a nickel on
the rapid transit trains, did they?..I also admit that while in 1893 there
may be more reasons one could proffer for such territorial agreements, by
1899 most of these would not be reasons any more..
I will say that since they did add improvements such as stations on the
Manhattan Beach line up to before World war One, that just because the
others charged a nickel was not as cut and dried a reason, maybe....Maybe it
was a class thing...maybe less stops made it faster, maybe the amenities
were a lure. People today take car services where taxis exist...
These are just guesses I am throwing out...and it may mean nothing what
followed in later years, the 1899 agreement, if there was such an agreement,
only pertains to the reasonings of that moment...in later years when PRR
owned the LIRR and when maybe management changes at BRT, or more likely the
subways that the BRT got into...those would be reasons that the agreement
wasn't abrogated....maybe it never happened that way, after all the book
says the LIRR bought the PP&CI in 1892, but it seems to have happened in
January 1893...
In 1928 Eagle last week I saw this elaborate plan to have an elevated
airport in Brooklyn on the water, on Barren Island at Jamaica Bay. This
seemed to be mostly for dirigibles I think, with rail and water connections
below (Dec. 9 B2:2)
Paul
Paul
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Guthrie" <jguthrie_@_pipeline.com>
To: <rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:57 AM
Subject: (rshsdepot) NY Stations That Never Were
> Paul's digging around Brooklyn Railroads -- particularly inquiries on the
> various stations at 36th St and at 20th St on PP&CI brings up a related
> topic -- the stations that never were . . .
>
> The NY Regional Plan 0f 1929 (A surprising amount of which came to pass --
> except in rail-related proposals) called for several large passenger
> terminals, in addition to Grand Cantral and Penn Station. The idea would
be
> to better spread out the crowds -- and distribute long distance passengers
> to final destinations better.
>
> For the record, the Regional Plan Contemplated large "Architecturally
> Significant" stations at:
>
> Paterson -- NYS&W/Erie/DL&W
> Hackensack -- NYS&W/NJ&NY/East-West belt to 178th St and LI/CT
> New Durham -- West Shore, NYS&W, Northern
> Jersey City -- Near Croxton Yard/Tonnele Circle
> Newark -- PRR/LV/DL&W/Erie (Newark Branch to Paterson)
> Clifton -- DL&W/Erie (Newark Branch)
> 178th & Amsterdam Ave -- East West Trunk from Bogota to Throgs Neck and to
> LI at Springfield Jct.
> 149th St Mott Haven -- NYC/NH/NYW&B
> Queens Plaza-Sunnyside -- LIRR/PRR (this one is still kicking around!)
> Prospect Park Plaza -- on N/S Belt between Narrows Tunnel and Sunnyside --
> and right near the PP&CI location that Paul has mentioned.
> South of Port Richmond -- At Jct of N/S Belt from Perth Amboy to CNJ at
> Bayonne, and connection to Brooklyn line through Narrows Tunnel.
>
> Keep in mind that the Regional Plan is quite different than Wilgus' plan
for
> the Port of NY published a few years earlier, retaining some of the
features
> like the inner belt line, but eschewing fanciful; schemes like a railroad
> from the Rockaways to Sandy Hook.
>
> Alas, for those looking for villains in the lack of rail development, the
> list does not include either the Port Authority or Robert Moses -- but
does
> include the officers of the railroads that served New York City.
>
> There's a wonderful book titled "The City that Never Was" that chronicles
> among other things the earlier plans for passenger terminals in Manhattan
> with some pretty neat drawings, but I wonder if any of the locals ever
took
> up the suggestions and made renderings of, say, an "Architectualy
> Significant" station, say, at New Durham?
>
> Cheers,
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> =================================
> The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing
> railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org
>
=================================
The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing
railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org
------------------------------