Re: (rshsdepot) Lower Manhattan Depots [was B&O Railroad Museum]

["Paul S. Luchter" <luckyshow_@_mindspring.com>]

rshsdepot
The NY and Harlem and the New Haven stations were next to each other at
Madison Square...

First after this site was a station, Barnum used it for his museum, and then
the first MSG (which used the final station building there before Sanford
White designed the MSG with the tower and the scandalous nude statue on top

I presume the 40th St station in tunnel left no evidence, not even the
entrance stairs?

The 30th St Station was removed when the west side line was upgraded and
grade level removed. Where would they have dropped off (what) passengers
until 1960's?

Paul
- -----Original Message-----
From: James R. Guthrie <jguthrie_@_pipeline.com>
To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net <rshsdepot@lists.railfan.net>
Date: Sunday, March 04, 2001 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lower Manhattan Depots [was B&O Railroad Museum]


>rshsdepot
>Steve asks:
>>
>>     I'm particularly interested in "real railroad" operation on the
>'way
>> downtown parts of the NY & Northern; I know that they built down to
>City
>> Hall and Astor House at Broadway-Vesey St - Park Row, that this was
>largely
>> a horsecar operation, including through passenger cars for "steam"
>trains;
>> and I have references to horses pulling boxcars down the Bowery in
>the
>> 1880's; but I don't really have a coherent picture of all these
>operations.
>> Do you have one, or know where to look?
>
>The NY&Northern became the Putnam Division which apparently did not
>operate south of 155th street in ordinary service; you're thinking of
>the New York and Harlem.
>
>Probably the easiest place to start is "The Coming of the New York and
>Harlem" by Louis V. Grogan. Also see Condit's "Railroads of the Port
>of New York."
>
>Manhattan once had lots of Railroad stations and terminals aside from
>the three that survive in one form or another. There were NY*H and
>NY&NH stations down to City Hall (made redundant by the Third Avenue
>El when the latter built its branch to GCT), St. John's Park, 30th
>Street (technically still in use in passenger service in the 1960s),
>and 155th Street. Of course, there were way stations along both the
>West Side and NY&H as well.
>
>I have some maps which show the NY&H running all the way down; note
>that the legacy of this -- namely the street railway tracks in the
>Park Avenue Tunnel South of GCT that is now a highway (albeit with a
>station in the tunnel about 40th Street) can be seen. It is also
>ironic that the original Madison Square Garden was built on the site
>of the NY&New Haven station at Madison Square, thus the current one is
>not the first to supplant a railroad station (though I've never read
>of folk lamenting the loss of the first one, save in one of the
>sarcastic obits regarding Stanford White -- but that's another thread
>on another list <g>).
>
>Cheers,
>Jim
>
>

------------------------------