RE: (erielack) Croxton Photo Questions

["Paul R. Tupaczewski" <paultup_@_optonline.net>]

Chris Thurner queried, re: Croxton photo:

> Questions:
> 
> What year or circa, was this taken?

August 7, 1974

 
> Let me preface this by saying that some of this may be due to 
> camera placement / angle etc., but,
> 
> 		1.) Where does the lead for the hump on the 
> right that the switcher is on go?  Look at the far right of 
> the pic, from right to left, you have a pig line with empty 
> flats, the NYSW transfer run and then a line of boxcars.  If 
> you look at the end of the NYSW transfer run, you will notice 
> the SQ caboose (red) and then the tracks behind it curve to 
> the right towards the hump.  Could it be that the switcher 
> serving the hump was on the same tracks as the transfer run?  
> That doesn't seem plausible, as it gives the switcher nowhere 
> to move.  Why would they have it serve the hump, stop on the 
> incline, wait while the transfer run backs up on the same 
> track (or was placed / classified there by another yard 
> loco), is assembled (i.e. w/
> power) and then pulls out.... I don't think so.  There seems 
> to be one set of tracks between the pig flats and the SQ run, 
> but, as you move left, there's a string of EL box cars there. 
>  This doesn't seem to be it either.

What about the track between the pig flats and the EL boxcars?
Alternately, the NYSW job is backing in on the track the hump switcher
is on...

Bill Sheppard published a book called "Tidewater Terminals of the Erie
Lackawanna Railroad," which has an excellent map of Croxton Yard... I
might have to take a look and see how this area of the yard was laid
out...
 
> 		2.) I'm able to interpret the piggyback yard 
> and how it is laid out more know that I've read the latest 
> edition of the Diamond and its excellent article on Chicago's 
> ops. (shameless plug for the ELHS and the
> Diamond's editorial staff from a satisfied member!).   Note 
> the two tracks
> on the far right.  Are these the two tracks with 'ramps' as 
> mentioned in a recent thread (out of sight on the other end 
> of the tracks)?

Not sure, but I don't think so. I seem to remember the ramp trtacks were
parallel to the yard tracks...


> I see the COFC load on one car.  Somehow, I 
> really don't remember COFC running on any of the intermodals 
> through Wellsville as a teenager.  Lots of TOFC and maybe 
> just the TOFC was much more prominent and I didn't notice the 
> containers (I guess I'll just say it was a teenage (in)discretion. 

I have lots of shots of an afternoon eastbound on the Boonton Line
(SC-8?) that would always have a flatcar or two of Seatrain COFC at the
head end. I've also seen other shots of COFC traffic on the EL, so it
did happen...

 
> 		3.) What is the orientation (direction) of the 
> photo.  Being that the Turnpike bridge is in the distance and 
> it ran north / south (more or less), are we looking east or 
> west?  My guess is west given the hill in the background and 
> the absence of the Manhattan skyline and also the sun appears 
> to be on the left (shadows right).

Direction of the photo is roughly west-north-west...

 
> 		4.) How was the yard arranged on the other side 
> of the hump? The tracks to the left of it appear to continue 
> on straight through and under the bridge.  They also appear 
> to be primarily classification tracks (I assume for traffic 
> going in the opposite direction of the hump in question). I 
> presume that the classification tracks on the other side of 
> the hump were primarily either directly over the hump or to 
> the right behind the pig yard?

Again, Bill Sheppard's diagram book is the best place to see this... I
think your assumption is correct, if memory serves me. It's hard to
describe, but Croxton was a huge yard made up of several (10 or so?)
smaller yards that all were next to one another...

 
> 		5.) Look at the 2 set of tracks to the left of 
> the leftmost switcher.  It almost appears that there is a 
> telephone pole in the middle of the them with a set of 
> boxcars on the track behind it!  If you look closer you will 
> see this track swings to the right just before it and 
> continues on the track just to the right of the pole.  It 
> appears the track the boxcars are on is accessed via a switch 
> from the track just to the left of the pole. Now, look 
> further down this row of boxcars on this track and you will 
> see a light tower, that also appears to be in the middle of 
> this same track!  At first I thought the tower was in the 
> distance behind the bridge, but its in front and it appears 
> the track makes another serpentine sweep to the right. Can 
> anyone add any color as to why the poles / tower were laid 
> out this way and would inhibit the traffic patterns / design 
> of the Erie's / EL's primary eastern terminal yard?  It 
> appears that there is an odd group of telephone poles just to 
> the left of the hump that just doesn't seem to be good yard 
> design.  Give this one to Tony Koester for next year's MRP.  
> LDE this one!

I think this is because the yard is large and subdivided into smaller
yards. These were most likely the best locations for light poles in
there...


> 6.)	Getting back to the pig yard, it's interesting to 
> ponder if, given
> the EL operated in the formative years of intermodal, if 
> lessons were learned on pig yard design.  This picture shows 
> a crowded, cramped area with what appears to be little 
> organization and thoughtful design.  Granted the service was 
> growing and growing rapidly, so the EL would have to make do 
> with what they had (or likely, could afford).  It seems, at 
> least to me, you would have tracks for arriving trains, with 
> an adjacent area to place the trailers / containers for 
> pickup / storage and movement of tractors. Likewise, there 
> would be an area for receiving / storage of inbound trailers 
> with space to maneuver equipment to load trailers/containers 
> on flats.  That doesn't seem to be apparent here.  There is a 
> mix / mash of both, with trailers placed wherever they can be 
> without regards for the next step in the process (i.e. 
> tractor lashup or loading onto a flat).  Probably for the 
> reasons outlined a few sentences back.  I would be surprised 
> if more than few arrivals were mistakenly reloaded onto 
> another train and sent back West! Does anyone know if this 
> happened and with what frequency?

I would assume that, had the EL lasted, some of the freight yards would
have been converted to pig yards for the burgeoning traffic...


 
> Anyway, I've about typed myself out.  I await your responses.

Very observant!

	- Paul

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