Re: (erielack) PRR Express Reefer

[Hhaines_@_aol.com]

Dear Peter and all:

You are in luck (unless you don't like what follows)! My copy of the Diamond 
came today--of course, all I have looked at so far has been this ad.

The Timken ad evidently ran in 1951, but the train is from an earlier date. 
Otherwise the train would have E-8s on the front, with the F-3s were used in 
lesser roles.  I really do not recall very many Erie passenger cars with 
roller bearings until later. 

From the photo, the train appears to be a typical consist for late 1948-49 
(maybe 1950) era of Train #1, with 4 lightweight express baggage cars, an 
RPO, 3 modernized Erie coaches, a diner-lounge, two heavyweight Pullman (w 
air conditioning) sleepers, and another car--possibly a modernized Stillwell 
(I would need a bit more photo definition to tell).  

The date will be one key as to what was going on.  This photo appears to be a 
summer or early fall shot.  The F-3s, although new, have a bit of road splash 
that was not all that prevalent in photos of their first year of operation 
(7-47).  That helps place it possibly in 1948.

If it were 1947-48, there would probably be one of the wood REA or 
clerestory-roof heavyweight express baggage cars in the lineup. These 
steel-plated center sill 4-window wood baggage cars were mostly gone in 1949. 
 It is interesting to see all lightweight express baggage cars in the consist 
with F-3s on the point.

There were still clerestory-roofed (UN-modernized) Erie 1926 or 1932 
heavyweight coaches in early 1948.  These were not as common after mid-1948 
(except the1100s with smoker sections).  

If the picture were much later in 1949, the train would have PA-1s on the 
point, and by January 1951, E-8s.  Of course, this train could have been 
staged for this shot, meaning it could be as early as September-October 1947. 
 But then it probably would not have had the car with that emblem on it.

The first car behind the engines appears to be a PRR express reefer or 
baggage car,
R50 maybe?  
There appears to be a keystone on the car in back of the locomotives, but I 
cannot tell if it was a PRR Keystone.  Did not Timken have a logo that was 
similar to a keystone with a "T" in it?  
   
<<Does anybody know how common these cars were on Erie/Lackawanna/Erie 
Lackawanna trains?>>

The better way to answer this is to go through train consists in the archives 
in Akron, Ohio (unless someone has done something like that, or operated many 
of the trains).  

Lacking the access to Akron and the firsthand knowledge of running passenger 
trains, I have resorted to my book collection.  A lot of trains in the 1940s 
used a variety of equipment.  

Out of 20 train-legnth 1949 through 1950s era Erie Railroad Chicago-New York 
pictures reviewed for another project, there are five with other railroad's 
express baggage that are identifiable on the front end.  Of these, two have 
single-door baggage cars, one listing the owner as Illinois Central.  Other 
head end cars were from Wabash, Santa Fe, Baltimore & Ohio, Norfolk and 
Western, Pennsy, and B&M.

IF typical, then there would be a 10 to 25 percent chance of head end cars 
being from another road on an NY-Chicago train, with the short express 
baggage seen some times.  Express box cars were more common.

The IF is pretty big for the following reasons.  The photos I reviewed were 
printed in Erie-related books that may be partial to trains that are all-Erie 
consists. So the practice of using other-roads head-end cars may be more 
common than revealed in my review.  

Also, all but two of these photos were taken in good sunny weather, which as 
I recall, was not the majority of the time in those years.

So do not take this the final word, but it appears that use of Pennsy and 
other road's cars did happen.  Since you have the Diamond, you probably are 
an ELHS member, and could contact Martin Obed, Technical Advisory on 
passenger equipment.  His contact information is in the December Extra Board.
  
Howard Haines
ELHS #1447  

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End of ErieLack Digest V3 #410
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