(erielack) Re: [AnthraciteRR] DL&W F-3's Question, continued.

[Dlw1el2_@_aol.com]

In a message dated 12/16/2001 9:10:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
arjay3_@_ix.netcom.com writes:


> Dlw1el2_@_aol.com wrote: 
> >>  In a message dated 12/15/2001 2:00:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
>> BlackDiamondRR_@_cs.com writes: 
>>   
>>   
>> >>> Hello, Anyone able to answer a question about the Lackawanna's 
>>> passenger F-3's? I have a photo of #804 in a book showing the phase 2 
>>> model with the chicken wire between portholes and the low roof fans, 
>>> another photo of the same unit(?) on the cover of FD&S shows the phase 1  
>>> version with the 3 portholes  and the high shrouded fans! Was this unit 
>>> (804) changed somewhere along the way from the as built appearance?  Bud
>> 
>> 
>> Bud 
>>   
>>   
>>   
>> Bud 
>> I don't like to get into Phase's cause there have been at least two phase  
>> catagorizing's done over the years. One seems to be more popular than the 
>> other 
>> but let me state this for the Lackawanna Units you are inquiring about. 
>> 801 and 802 were the earliest type of F3s Phase 1 if you desire that. 
>> They had three port holes, and high roof fans.  Produced 12/46 
>> 803, to 805 were of a LATER phase that had only two port holes, with 
>> chicken wire 
>> between the two, and they had low fans.  Probable given Phase 2 
>> designation by model builders, to make things easy. Produced 12/47 
>> BUT! 
>> Keep in mind the change from three port hole to two came about in 5/47. 
>> The change to low fans came about in 12/47. 
>> A quick glance suggests that the Lackawanna didn't have any F units 
>> delivered between 5/47 and 12/47, but other roads probable did.  So if 
>> your road had two port holes, and still high fans your screwed when it 
>> comes to the simple phase one and two that model makers have bestowed on 
>> THERE two types of phases for F 3. 
>> So, with all that stated, I couldn't figure out what you were talking 
>> about. Figured I better check my FD&S covers just to make sure, and WOW.  
>> Fall of 77, you are right.  This has got me stumped for now.  I've talked 
>> to a 1950 shop man from Scranton, and there was no rebuilding, and no 
>> other causes or reason.  I've talked to a 1945 engineer and he knows of no 
>> reason for the conflict.  I would first question the stated location since 
>> the tall signal is very much a Lackawanna style signal. 
>> Did the LV have this type of two mast signal, and in Lehighton? 
>> Secondly this appears to be the 801 renumbered.  I say that because the 
>> side 4 is accurate, but the 4 in the numberboards is not the correct faunt 
>> other than the upright part of the 4 which would have been a one. 
>> Could the LV have been borrowing the three unit 801 set for some reason? 
>> Did the LV have any other units that would have a number conflict with 
>> 801? 
>> Open for other constructive thoughts, and I must state, a good catch Bud! 
>> I have also forwarded this over to the EL group to possible get some more 
>> input. 
>> Bob Bahrs



> Bob, I was letting you answer this one first. Bud spotted something neither 
> of us noticed before. 
> Changing side panels on F units in the early years was not something which 
> would be done, there simply was no gain to be accomplished. I have examined 
> the original print (I do not have the negative) and  believe the #804 on 
> the cover of FD&S is renumbered from one of the #801 or #802 sets. Bob - do 
> you have evidence of the headlight visors appearing on any other 800 series 
> F3's other than 801 and 802? I can only find the visors on the 801 and 802 
> units in the photos I have and the books I checked. The visor on this "804" 
> gives further credence to the renumbering. On the print the number 4 in the 
> numberboard appears to be a separate piece inserted in front of the rest of 
> the number board and there is a square patch of slightly different gray 
> paint around the "4" on the side of the unit. I have no information of 
> these units being on the LV other than on detour trains in 1955. I do not 
> think the location is Lehighton,  to many things do not match. 
> This is curious. 
> Rich Jahn 
> 

Rich

I concur on just about everything your stating.  No, I don't see the visor's 
showing up on the 803-805 group in any of my photos.  Now they did get 
removed from time to time but it appears they were not on any of the latter 
800 passenger F3s.

Those signals were pretty unique, at least around here. The train is stopped, 
judging from the amount of fireman we have hanging out the side door window. 
It's at an interlocking account of no numberboard being on the signal, and 
rods are showing in the background three tracks over.  A paved station 
platform is between the first two tracks.  A water plug is still standing!  
To bad its cropped so badly on the left!  E. Stroudsburg, east bound, but the 
building over hang on the left doesn't fit?

Here's a wild guess!  There is a Lackawanna publicity photo that has 801, 2, 
3, & 4 lined up side by side.  Maybe they renumbered the two 801and 802 C 
units to 803, and 804 just for the photo? Knowing the 803, 4, & 5 were 
coming! Like I said, just guessing here.  Unfortunately in the publicity 
photo, none of the units have a visor. All later photo's I have or have seen 
of 804 A and C, neither have a visor, but 801 and 802 definitely had visors.

Bob

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