Re: (erielack) NYSW / DL&W between Water Gap, Stroudsburg and Gravel Place

["Gary R. Kazin" <gkazin_@_yahoo.com>]

- --- A Samostie <quahog_@_sprint.ca> wrote:
> I recall that NYSW and DL&W maintained separate stations at the Water
> Gap, but what about Stroudsburg and Gravel Place?  
> 
> Was there ever much interchange traffic between the DL&W and NYSW at
> Gravel Place?  Even though the NYSW was an "Erie stepchild," was
> competition so fierce that the Lackawanna would avoid interchange with
> NYSW unless absolutely necessary?

Well, the NYS&W was 'its own railroad' from 1876 when it emerged (along
with the NYO&W) from the NY&OM bankruptcy until 1898 when the Erie took
control of its stock.

The NYS&W connected with the DL&W at Gravel Place before the WB&E was
built.  The DL&W brought coal from Pocono mines the NYS&W controlled to
Gravel Place and the NYS&W took it east on their own line. The WB&E was
built because the NYS&W didn't want to share the rail-haul revenue with
the DL&W.  That, of course, was before the Erie took control of the NYS&W.


Freight originating on the DL&W with destinations on the NYS&W (and vice
versa) probably interchanged at Gravel Place.

> Also, related to the recent discussion of detour routes... were any
> portions of the NYSW ever used as such, either before or after the EL
> merger?

I have no idea if there was actual use.  What sections could have been
useful:

For the DLW, Gravel Place - Warbasse Jct, then down the Sussex Branch to
Waterloo (later Netcong)?  Bypassed the 'Old Main' through Oxford and
Washington in the days before the Cutoff.  That would have ended with the
1941 abandonment.

For the Erie, Passaic Junction - Croxton.  Pompton Junction (NY&GL)-
Hawthorne.

For the EL - formed in Oct 1960.  The line west of Sparta Jct didn't
connect with the DL&W or Erie, only the L&NE.  A roundabout connection
from that to the DL&W (Bangor & Portland, which probably would have been
easier to route somehow to Phillipsburg and the former DL&W there.  Moot
after the 1961 abandonment.  Otherwise, Passaic Jct - Croxton and Pompton
Jct - Hawthorne as above.

> I always found it odd that NYSW would abandon its line west of
> Hainesburg Jct. in 1941, so soon after its WB&E was abandoned in 1938. 

Part and parcel of the same transaction, actually.  The WB&E was abandoned
in 1939 for financial reasons: the coal trade was dying and so were the
mines.  Without coal there was little reason to go west of Hainesburg - no
customers and a lot of maintenance - especially the Delaware River bridge,
which dated from the 1880's.

> By the way, the WB&E met the NYSW at Stroudsburg rather than Gravel
> Place, correct?  Was there a physical connection between the DL&W and
> the WB&E?

As I understand the geography, the DL&W/NYS&W connection was west of the
WB&E/NYS&W connection.  That meant it took a back-up move between the WB&E
and DL&W.  I doubt there would have been a reason for that, other than to
get an engine from the WB&E into the DL&W shops for emergency repairs or
fuelling, as the NYS&W did.

Under the Erie (dating from 1898 IIRC), the NYS&W shops were largely
eliminated, with maintenance done by the Erie.  When the NYS&W became free
of Erie control in 1939, it had no shops at all.  It contracted with the
NYO&W's Middletown shops since it would have been expensive to build new
shops.  Equipment moved over the Middletown, Unionville & Water Gap to
avoid payments to the Erie.

=====
Gary R. Kazin
DL&W Milepost R35.7
Rockaway, New Jersey

New Jersey Transit - THE WAY TO GO!!!

(I have no affiliation with New Jersey Transit.)

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