From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:47:15 From: "Don Dorflinger" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased The Hoboken - Binghamton service proposed in the 1970's via Port Jervis and the old Erie Delaware Division was the pipe dream of a New York State Congressman, whose name escapes me at the moment. After an initial flurry of excitement (several pieces of passenger equipment were even reportedly set aside), nothing came of it and the idea died for lack of funding. The Lackawanna Cut-off is a nasty situation that has been haunting New Jersey and Pennsylvania since the mid-1980's. It is primarily Pennsylvania's fault that the line through Scranton was ultimately abandoned by Conrail. While New York was putting their own funding in to save the ex-Erie route and making Conrail's job of operating it easier, the Commonwealth of PA was making unreasonable demands on the railroad to keep the Lackawanna side open without offering a dime, and by throwing roadblocks in Conrail's plan to streamline operations there (witness the "Elmhurst fiasco" where Conrail had single tracked the ex-DL&W to Elmhurst and the Commonwealth demanded that they put the second track back. Conrail's response was to lay unconnected sections of "Snap track" on the ground alongside Track #1). Sorry Lackawanna fans, the ex-DL&W was not the desirable route to Binghamton, primarily because of the severe grades over the Poconos and into and out of Scranton (that burned up fuel and required wear and tear on extra locomotives), plus the lack of a viable freight connection east of Mountain View (Wayne), NJ (due to the E-L's ill-advised plan to abandon the ex-DL&W Boonton Line through Paterson, and sell the property to the State of New Jersey as a right-of-way for I-80, rerouting freight down the former Erie Greenwood Lake Division, which was not equipped to handle long through freights). The tales of Monroe County, PA's ill-directed efforts to save the line in the 1970's are legend. New Jersey finally put the nail in the coffin, when they allowed Conrail to sell the Cut-off to Jerry Turco for $1,000,000 in the mid-80's, and rip up the track. The line was 24th out of 25th on NJ's short list for preservation, and had been bumped there by the State's fear of the rumor that Casino Gambling was coming to the Poconos, and a rail line there would siphon off customers from the infant Atlantic City Casinos. Now the State has spent $ millions to buy back property that was frittered away for only $ one million and Jerry Turco is laughing all the way to the bank. Typical bureaucracy and waste of taxpayers money. Had the two States any foresight in 1984, the rail never would have been ripped up in the first place. Many of you may recall a bond issue passed in 1987 by the voters of New Jersey that was to help purchase the Cut-off and restore passenger service to East Stroudsburg by 1995. Hah! It's 2002 and now they are talking 2006, and ONLY IF the funding is available. I think in my lifetime, the chances of seeing trains on the New Jersey Cut-off are slim to none. If it took 14 years to take the property, how long will it take to get the rails back down...and prices are climbing. Meanwhile, New Jersey continues to waste time and money on the "Sparta Project," a line which no one will ride once they find out how long it will take to get from Sussex County to New York City over the twisting, winding Susquehanna. On the Pennsylvania side, the ex-DL&W Main Line survives, and is currently operated from Scranton to Slateford Jct. and Portland by the Delaware-Lackawanna Railroad out of Scranton. NS has retained the ex-DL&W Bangor & Portland Branch from Martins Creek to Portland to bring coal trains to the Reliant Energy power plant there, but if plans to convert that plant to primarily burn natuaral gas materialize, the future of the B&P may be in doubt, as there are no customers between the two end points, and DL could easily pick up Ulta-Poly at Portland, with NS retaining Con Agra at Martins Creek. Nuff said. >From: "Paul S. Luchter" >Reply-To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >To: >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:31:42 -0500 > >I do remember talk of Amtrak service from Binghamton from mid 1970s for many >years. I think I do remember this. >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Dent >To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:30 PM >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased > > >Paul, > >Rails are still in between Hoboken and Binghamton. Hoboken to Port Jervis >is commuter territory, west of Port Jervis to Binghamton still gets 1-2 >trains a day. > >There has never been serious discussion, or money spent, on restoring >passenger service west of Port Jervis. > >Now back to the Cut-off. Trains ply the DL&W on the Pennsylvania side not >daily, but regularly. > >Is it a pipe-dream? Who would have thought the NYS&W would reopen west of >Butler, NJ? But it did. >Re-opening the Cut-off is still a long way off - but I think it will happen. > >Jim Dent > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul S. Luchter" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:10 PM >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased > > > > Is this a pipe dream? Binghamton to Hoboken never came about and there is > > still rail on that route (I think!). > > > > How much eminent domain use of the abandoned right of way might thee also > > be? > > > > Paul > > > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003901c1c048$2f1d1d20$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 06:07:59 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Cleburne, TX Depot fate remains uncertain By: Rob Fraser, Times-Review WriterFebruary 27, 2002 The future of the Trinity & Brazos Valley Railroad Depot is still uncertain following last night's Cleburne City Council meeting. Building owner Dan Roberts submitted to the council a proposal to have the March 1 demolition of the building delayed. The proposal stated prefabricated trusses to span the 26 foot by 26 foot existing building would be installed along with a metal roofing to dry in the roof area; all the window and door openings that now exist will be boarded up with plywood; and all missing brick will be replaced and the remaining part of the building will be repainted. The proposal said the work would be done by Walter McDaniel of Glen Rose for $1,500, with one half up front, upon the approval or permitting by the city, and then the balance due upon completion. The work would start March 15 and be completed by May 1, according to the proposal. Roberts seemed to be a little shocked when he was informed by Mayor Tom Hazlewood, City Manager Chester Nolen and acting city attorney Wade Adkins that the council could not take action on the proposal since his presentation to the council was not an action item but a presentation. He said he had the impression, following a conversation with Nolen earlier in the month, that the council could take action to delay the March 1 demolition to give Roberts time to get the work done. Following the meeting, Fire Chief Client Ishmael, who also heads the Building and Standards Commission, said unless he is otherwise "notified by my boss [Nolen], demolition is set" for 9 a.m. Friday. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C7E7CA1.A32C9F8A_@_attglobal.net> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:53:22 -0700 From: metcalf_@_attglobal.net Subject: (rshsdepot) Depot Duplicate Slides I now have Railroad Duplicate Slides, Volume 4, 11 pages long. This has depots (with architectural details specified) from the Cadillac & Lake City (ex-RI in CO); California Western; Canadian National (Manitoba & Saskatchewan); Canadian Pacific (Manitoba & Saskatchewan); Carbon County Railway; Chicago & Northwestern (+ some Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha) from WY, ND, SD, NE, MN & IA. The slides are professionally duplicated using Kodak's eDupe film. The list is available free as an MSWord e-mail attachment or if you prefer I'll print and mail one to you for $1.00 to Norm Metcalf, P.O. Box 1368, Boulder CO 80306-1368 USA. Norm ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002801c1c097$172cef20$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:32:49 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Dover, DE Photo link: http://www.doverpost.com/wklyart/99-RRstation.jpg Former train station, court officially opened as state offices Dover Post NEW LIFE FOR A FAMILIAR LANDMARK: Once a welcome sight along the old Pennsylvania Railroad line, the former Dover train station at the end of Loockerman Street got a new lease on life during ceremonies held at the station Friday afternoon. The station, which closed when passenger rail service to Dover ceased in 1965, was used by the Justice of the Peace Court until it moved to new facilities in 1998. After a $1.4 million renovation, the building was renamed for George V. Massey, a prominent 19th-century Dover attorney who was instrumental in bringing the railroad to Dover. Photo by Jeff Brown. Gov. Ruth Ann Minner and Lt. Gov. John C. Carney Jr., cut the ribbon at George V. Massey Station in Dover, the former train station and Justice of the Peace Court that has been refurbished and now contains a number of education related state agencies. Dover Mayor James Hutchison, Rep. Donna Stone (R-32) and state Secretary of Administrative Services Gloria Homer joined Gov. Minner and Lt. Gov. Carney for the official opening of the building located on the west end of Loockerman Street. Renovation was completed on the late 19th century building in December in a project that will be on time and on budget. "One of the objectives of my Livable Delaware agenda is to encourage redevelopment of existing structures in existing areas rather than building new buildings that destroy open space." Gov. Minner said. "Here we have a building that has been preserved and adapted, which will help keep people and businesses in downtown Dover and which is convenient and accessible to the people it will serve. This project is a win any way you look at it." Offices now housed in the building include several adult education agencies, including the Adult Community Educators Network, the Organization of Adult Alumni and Students in Service and the state's Diploma-At-A-Distance program. Other tenants include Advisory Council on Career and Vocational Education, the Business Industry Education Alliance and the Governor's Advisory Council for Exceptional Citizens. "This is a great situation for the adult literacy community," said Lt. Gov. Carney, who chairs the Interagency Council on Adult Literacy. "This new location will make communication among the various agencies easier and will allow students the opportunity to take advantage of several programs during the same visit." Mayor Hutchison said the project is a step forward in the revitalization of downtown Dover and showed the commitment of the state to helping communities their goals. In 2000, House Bill 656 sponsored by state Rep. Nancy Wagner (R-31) named the building George V. Massey Station after the 19th century Dover attorney who convinced the Pennsylvania Railroad to build the station. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #301 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000b01c1c0ef$cc531c00$dcbefe3f_@_oemcomputer> References: <002801c1c097$172cef20$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:07:46 -0000 From: "Gene Paoli" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Dover, DE The Dover, De station was designed by William Holmes Cookman in 1911 and additions by him in in 1914. Cookman was the PRR's in house replacement for Joseph Miller Wilson and the Wilson Bros. & Co. Along with several other prominent in house architects from 1890 untill the last of the PRR improvement phases in the 1940's, Cookman designed many standard structures such as the PRR Phila. Produce bldg., Perryville, MD (and 5 other sites), Lancaster, Pa, Freeport, PA, Greensburg, Pa. and hundreds more. Now for a treat. Attached is a post card of the original station that Cookman replaced. It may be argued that he actually revised this structure for in PRR meeting notes it states that the original structure was incorporated and expanded. Of course there is much more but too much for the scope of a e-mail document so that's all for now. EuGene Paoli stationman_@_prodigy.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Wagenblast To: RSHS Depot Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:32 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Dover, DE > Photo link: > http://www.doverpost.com/wklyart/99-RRstation.jpg > > Former train station, court officially opened as state offices > Dover Post > > NEW LIFE FOR A FAMILIAR LANDMARK: Once a welcome sight along the old > Pennsylvania Railroad line, the former Dover train station at the end of > Loockerman Street got a new lease on life during ceremonies held at the > station Friday afternoon. The station, which closed when passenger rail > service to Dover ceased in 1965, was used by the Justice of the Peace Court > until it moved to new facilities in 1998. After a $1.4 million renovation, > the building was renamed for George V. Massey, a prominent 19th-century > Dover attorney who was instrumental in bringing the railroad to Dover. Photo > by Jeff Brown. > > Gov. Ruth Ann Minner and Lt. Gov. John C. Carney Jr., cut the > ribbon at George V. Massey Station in Dover, the former train station and > Justice of the Peace Court that has been refurbished and now contains a > number of education related state agencies. > > Dover Mayor James Hutchison, Rep. Donna Stone (R-32) and state > Secretary of Administrative Services Gloria Homer joined Gov. Minner and Lt. > Gov. Carney for the official opening of the building located on the west end > of Loockerman Street. > > Renovation was completed on the late 19th century building in > December in a project that will be on time and on budget. > > "One of the objectives of my Livable Delaware agenda is to > encourage redevelopment of existing structures in existing areas rather than > building new buildings that destroy open space." Gov. Minner said. > > "Here we have a building that has been preserved and adapted, which will > help keep people and businesses in downtown Dover and which is convenient > and accessible to the people it will serve. This project is a win any way > you look at it." > > Offices now housed in the building include several adult > education agencies, including the Adult Community Educators Network, the > Organization of Adult Alumni and Students in Service and the state's > Diploma-At-A-Distance program. > > Other tenants include Advisory Council on Career and Vocational > Education, the Business Industry Education Alliance and the Governor's > Advisory Council for Exceptional Citizens. > > "This is a great situation for the adult literacy community," > said Lt. Gov. Carney, who chairs the Interagency Council on Adult Literacy. > "This new location will make communication among the various agencies easier > and will allow students the opportunity to take advantage of several > programs during the same visit." > > Mayor Hutchison said the project is a step forward in the > revitalization of downtown Dover and showed the commitment of the state to > helping communities their goals. > > In 2000, House Bill 656 sponsored by state Rep. Nancy Wagner > (R-31) named the building George V. Massey Station after the 19th century > Dover attorney who convinced the Pennsylvania Railroad to build the station. > > ================================= > The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing > railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000801c1c0f0$8c44fce0$dcbefe3f_@_oemcomputer> References: <002801c1c097$172cef20$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:13:09 -0000 From: "Gene Paoli" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Dover, DE NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo dover-de-prr-original-sta-pc.jpg (image/jpeg, 70031 bytes) Here is the Dover, De station replaced in 1911. Eugene Paoli - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Wagenblast To: RSHS Depot Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:32 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Dover, DE > Photo link: > http://www.doverpost.com/wklyart/99-RRstation.jpg > > Former train station, court officially opened as state offices > Dover Post > > NEW LIFE FOR A FAMILIAR LANDMARK: Once a welcome sight along the old > Pennsylvania Railroad line, the former Dover train station at the end of > Loockerman Street got a new lease on life during ceremonies held at the > station Friday afternoon. The station, which closed when passenger rail > service to Dover ceased in 1965, was used by the Justice of the Peace Court > until it moved to new facilities in 1998. After a $1.4 million renovation, > the building was renamed for George V. Massey, a prominent 19th-century > Dover attorney who was instrumental in bringing the railroad to Dover. Photo > by Jeff Brown. > > Gov. Ruth Ann Minner and Lt. Gov. John C. Carney Jr., cut the > ribbon at George V. Massey Station in Dover, the former train station and > Justice of the Peace Court that has been refurbished and now contains a > number of education related state agencies. > > Dover Mayor James Hutchison, Rep. Donna Stone (R-32) and state > Secretary of Administrative Services Gloria Homer joined Gov. Minner and Lt. > Gov. Carney for the official opening of the building located on the west end > of Loockerman Street. > > Renovation was completed on the late 19th century building in > December in a project that will be on time and on budget. > > "One of the objectives of my Livable Delaware agenda is to > encourage redevelopment of existing structures in existing areas rather than > building new buildings that destroy open space." Gov. Minner said. > > "Here we have a building that has been preserved and adapted, which will > help keep people and businesses in downtown Dover and which is convenient > and accessible to the people it will serve. This project is a win any way > you look at it." > > Offices now housed in the building include several adult > education agencies, including the Adult Community Educators Network, the > Organization of Adult Alumni and Students in Service and the state's > Diploma-At-A-Distance program. > > Other tenants include Advisory Council on Career and Vocational > Education, the Business Industry Education Alliance and the Governor's > Advisory Council for Exceptional Citizens. > > "This is a great situation for the adult literacy community," > said Lt. Gov. Carney, who chairs the Interagency Council on Adult Literacy. > "This new location will make communication among the various agencies easier > and will allow students the opportunity to take advantage of several > programs during the same visit." > > Mayor Hutchison said the project is a step forward in the > revitalization of downtown Dover and showed the commitment of the state to > helping communities their goals. > > In 2000, House Bill 656 sponsored by state Rep. Nancy Wagner > (R-31) named the building George V. Massey Station after the 19th century > Dover attorney who convinced the Pennsylvania Railroad to build the station. > > ================================ > The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing > railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004d01c1c115$f52681a0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 06:40:58 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Cleburne, TX Light at the end of T&BV tunnel? By: Rob Fraser,Times-Review Writer February 28, 2002 The latest, as of Wednesday morning, in the ongoing saga of the Trinity & Brazos Valley Depot is an attempt to work out an agreement among the principles that might possibly spare the structure. If an agreement is not reached the four walls may come tumbling down Friday, March 1, at 9 a.m. City Manager Chester Nolen said Wednesday morning he was working on an agreement with the help of the acting city attorney, Wade Adkins, who is drafting the documents. He said he will present the agreement to the chairman of the Building and Standards Commission and the building owner, Dan Roberts, "and see if we can come to terms on it and make this thing go away one way or the other." Nolen said the proposal is very similar to the proposal Roberts made to the council Tuesday night. Roberts' proposal stated prefabricated trusses to span the 26 by 26-foot existing building would be installed along with metal roofing to dry in the roof area; all the window and door openings that now exist will be boarded up with plywood; and all missing brick will be replaced and the remaining part of the building will be repointed [remortared]. The proposal said the work would be done by Walter McDaniel, Glen Rose, for $1,500, with one half up front, upon approval or permitting by the city, and then the balance due upon completion. The proposal said the work would begin March 15 and be completed May 1. Nolen said the time frame in the possible agreement is 60 days and if it is completed within that 60-day period and everything is done "then the demolition order goes away, and if it's not done, then on the 61st day a bulldozer goes through the building and it's taken down." He said the expression "a bulldozer goes through the building" may be a "little facetious," but it's accurate in the sense "the building will be demolished." Nolen said, "And that's where I'm trying to get to at this point." He said he hadn't had a chance to talk to Roberts about this yet (as of Wednesday morning) "the phone has been ringing off the hook this morning and I've had one or most of the councilmen in to visit with me at some point about what they thought and what they feel and that sort of thing." He said, "They want to do the right thing. I guess we are all trying to get to a point where we are doing the right thing. And that's how we are trying to get there." The timing of the agreement is urgent, he said, "it's gotta be done before Friday." He said he expected the paperwork to be faxed to him early Wednesday afternoon. Roberts said he was "willing to explore any possibilities to save the old building." He said after he got over the initial shock Tuesday night of being told the council could not take action on his proposal, since his was a presentation and not an action item, he was "confused and disappointed." Roberts said, "I was told that it was basically a done deal and that I would be able to get closure last night on this thing and I came far, far from getting closure." Roberts said though the latest news is real positive, "things with the city change from moment to moment." He said he didn't know if they would write anything new into his proposal. The final decision, he said, will be known at 9 a.m. Friday morning. "If they tear the building down," Roberts said, "they are in trouble, and if they don't tear the building down there's another faction of the town that's going to be very upset with them. The city has not done themselves any good will out of this situation." ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005901c1c116$af7e0f00$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 06:46:11 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Sacramento, CA Downtown train depot getting a few touch-ups By Bill Lindelof -- Bee Staff Writer Published 5:30 a.m. PST Thursday, Feb. 28, 2002 A fresh coat of paint, better lighting and other fixes are finished. A new roof is on the way. That's good news for Sacramento's stately but worn downtown train depot. Stopgap measures to protect the structural integrity of the depot and at the same time make the ever-increasing number of train passengers more comfortable were touted Wednesday during a tour for the media. "While we move to the station of the future that millions of people will pass through, we want to make this station more attractive and easier to use," said Sacramento County Supervisor Roger Dickinson. Still to come are fixes for the roof, better signs, an extension of light rail and a temporary fix for the vacant REA building next to the depot. The buildings are owned by Union Pacific Railroad, which inherited them when it bought Southern Pacific Rail Corp. in 1997. Sacramento officials believe it is in the city's best interest for them to use government money to make repairs now. The reasoning behind spending government funds on a privately held property involves the future of the tile-roofed depot. The city qualifies for millions of dollars in state and federal transportation grants for the depot work, and city officials ultimately hope to buy the depot, the REA building and about four acres around the two structures used mainly for parking. City officials have said they have $3.5 million in city, state and federal funds for the depot. Much of that has already been spent. Councilman Steve Cohn, a member of regional and local transportation boards, said the initial phase of maintenance and improvements are long overdue. And more has to be done: "This gets us to a barely acceptable condition for our existing customers. This does nothing to handle expansion." The 75-year-old depot's roof has leaked for some time and water has seeped into walls. Water stains the ceiling. Among the improvements financed by the city is a new roof for $800,000. Work is scheduled to begin in May. Also, the sign at the entrance to the parking lot prominently identifies the site as "Courthouse Parking" rather than Sacramento Valley Station -- the depot's new name. The design and installation of a new sign will cost $120,000. The sign will be installed next month. Paving, parking lot re-striping and installation of ramps to modern standards will cost $2 million. Historians who want the depot totally rehabilitated and retained as a working station have lamented the railroad's neglect of the historical structure. In even worse condition than the depot is the REA building, once a distribution center for Railway Express Agency, a nationwide package-delivery company. A section of roof caved in years ago. Sacramento UP official Mike Casey said the railroad plans to make temporary structural and roof upgrades to the REA building. Walls will be braced, the partially collapsed roof will be taken off and the interior will be cleaned up in the next few months. The depot mainly is used by Amtrak and the Capitol Corridor passenger service run by a regional government body. UP officials want to move the passenger and rail lines several hundred feet north of the existing depot at Fifth and I streets and create a concourse there to serve passengers. That would improve UP's freight-hauling business, give Amtrak modern passenger facilities and open the lower portion of the railyard closest to downtown for development. Other improvements already finished include painting, lighting and audio improvements, plus renovation of the ticket office and ticket counter area by Amtrak at a cost of $160,000. Amtrak has also spent $80,000 on one of the main eyesores at the depot, a subway that leads to the tracks. Storage track and platform canopies have been improved by Amtrak, UP and the Capitol Corridors Joint Powers Authority at a cost of $750,000. An extension of light rail, including the installation of a stop at the depot, should begin this fall. Scheduled for completion in December 2003, the extension is part of the $209 million depot-to-Folsom light-rail extension. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005f01c1c117$10fcdc20$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 06:48:55 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Halsey, OR Work on Halsey depot back on track By Danita Shattuck Albany Democrat-Herald HALSEY - Work on the historic Halsey train depot is chugging along again since the city recently acquired more money for the project. When completed, the depot will become a community center and the new City Hall. The recent sale of one of two residential lots owned by the city on West Fourth Street netted $32,413.50. The funds were transferred to the community center project as budgeted, said Erika Metcalf, assistant city recorder. "We expect to sell the other lot in the near future," she said. The Cascade West Council of Governments earlier awarded the city a $75,000 "matching" grant, and Halsey received matching funds from the property sale. Right now, although surrounded with new sidewalks, the tall building with peeling yellow paint looks forlorn. The doors are boarded and posted with "no trespassing" signs, and torn black plastic ripples in the window openings. Roofers last week completed shingling the roof. Roof drainage has been donated by United Pipe and Supply. A cement floor is scheduled to be poured within the next two weeks. The plumbing, windows and doors, and the heating, ventilation and air conditioning unit will be installed before March 31, Metcalf said. Sometime between May and July, a city sewer line will be run under American Drive and Halsey Street to the depot property. Metcalf hopes that once people see progress being made, the community will get more involved with the project. She looks forward to getting at least part of the building in operation soon. "Our goal is to get the bottom open and usable first. Then open the top," she said. The downstairs will house Meals on Wheels and Linn County Health. "There's some talk of council meetings being held there. It's crowded at City Hall," Metcalf said. Smith Seed Co. donated the old depot, and Rainbow Construction moved the 102-foot building - in two halves - over half a mile to its new location at the north end of town in April 2000. The cost for that move was $16,000. This was not the first move for the building. It was originally located three blocks south of its current location. In the 1960s the building was moved to West First Street and used for grass-seed storage. Originally the structure was built and used as a passenger and freight depot. "The history of the depot is a difficult one to determine," Metcalf said. Most of the commercial district, except for the depot, burned down in 1903. Some of the relics found under the subfloor would indicate it was built in the late 1880s or 1890s. Metcalf would like to prove that Halsey has the oldest wooden train depot in Oregon. The depot in Canby currently holds that title, she said. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005301c1c116$7d9a73c0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 06:44:47 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Cherokee, IA Depot moves one step closer to completed renovation Cherokee Daily Times Staff Report February 28, 2002 CHEROKEE - The Cherokee Depot moved one step closer to being completely renovated Tuesday night as the city council awarded the contract for the project to Haselhoff Construction. The locally-based contractor bid a total of $226,941 for the project. According to Depot Renovation Group member Jim Adamson, the total represents a cost of $78,150 for the creation of an elevator shaft and the installation of a handicapped-accessible elevator. The remaining $148,791 represents the other work needed to rehabilitate the historic structure. "It's going to be an extensive interior rehabilitation with some exterior rehabilitation," Adamson said of the project. "We're going to install an elevator on the ground floor to the second floor and install heating and air conditioning on the second floor as well as finish the plumbing." In addition, workers will be refinishing the windows and windowsills and will construct and install new storm windows in the building. A wheelchair ramp with handrails will be installed at the west side of the depot. The railing at the stairway will be reconstructed according to original drawings from 1896. Woodworking and handicapped accessibility are only a small part of the project. There's lots more to be done. "We're going to re-lay brick pavers south to the Elm Street sidewalk and we're going to stabilize the express building by doing brick and mortar work and putting on a new roof and shingles as well as doing some window work indoors," Adamson explained. In the fall of 2001, the Depot Renovation Group received two grants, one federal, the other state, to restore the building to its former glory. The state grant, known as a Historical Site Preservation Grant, was authorized through the State Historical Society of Iowa in the amount of $69,000. The second, a Transportation Enhancement Act grant, uses federal highway funds and totals $64,000. That leaves the group $15,791 short of their goal. Undaunted, the renovators plan on mounting a fund raising effort to make up for the difference. "We'll be establishing a fund raising effort with clear goals," Adamson said. The Depot Renovation Group plans to get to work right away as the grants are good only up until September of this year. "We are going to be communicating with the contractor in a pre-construction meeting at the depot to review plans and drawings and to set up a schedule of work," Adamson noted. In other business, the council briefly discussed an ordinance adding a new section regarding the council's review of property variances. According to City Administrator Bruce Bierma, the state code allows for this, but council members would only be able to review the variances once they had been granted by the board of adjustment. At their own discretion, the council could recommend that a variance be sent back to the board of adjustment for further review. Due to some problems with the ordinance's language, the item was tabled and no action was taken on its first presentation. The council also heard a presentation by Evertek, reviewed the 2000-01 annual audit of the city books by King, Reinsch, Prosser and Company; and heard a number of reports regarding various city projects. Bierma noted that work is continuing on the plans for the Main Street project, but he could not estimate how long it would be before they were complete. At this time, meetings between city representatives and the block captains are on hold for the next two weeks, but work on the project is continuing. "We're going to keep putting things together," Bierma said. Prior to adjourning the meeting, the council entered executive session to discuss current litigation. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <018201c1c15c$84bfd140$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:06:05 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Ft. Worth, TX From Altamont Press Newsline... End of the line for Ft. Worth Union Depot After 103 years of faithful service, the last passenger train pulled out of Fort Worth Union Depot (better known as the Santa Fe Depot) today, Feb26. The northbound Heartland Flyer departed at 17:25, bringing to an end the oldest Texas depot in continuous service from the day it opened in 1899 until now. -Tim Geeslin, Gene Poon ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00c101c1c160$ecdfddc0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:37:37 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Ellensburg, WA Railroad considers depot land lease 02/27/02 AARON CLIFFORD ELLENSBURG - Burlington Northern Santa Fe officials have begun to pay attention to a joint effort between Historic Ellensburg and the city of Ellensburg to lease the land on which the train depot sits. John Akers, the city's director of public works, said he has submitted a lease application to the railroad with the necessary data asking for a 20-year lease period to the city. Akers thinks 20 years is a very possible time period for the lease. Past attempts to lease the property were held up by BNSF, partially because of the length of the leases that were asked for, Akers said. "Until we get something from the railroad, we're kind of stuck and can't move forward," Akers said. "We're hopeful that we'll at least get a proposal from them soon," Flo Lentz, vice president of Historic Ellensburg, said. "They are looking at it very seriously." Railroad spokesman Gus Melones said this morning company officials still are considering the proposal. As a part of the plan the city of Ellensburg would lease the depot land first and then transfer it to Historic Ellensburg. The transfer would occur after the city completes minor construction to help the depot weather the elements, Akers said. The depot building itself has a separate owner, and to buy it, Historic Ellensburg needed to qualify for a federal grant. After raising the required $39,000 to qualify for a $221,000 federal grant, Historic Ellensburg members thought the deal was on its way to buy and renovate the depot. But the Washington State Department of Transportation refused to release the federal grant funds without a Historic Ellensburg having a long-term lease from the land's owner, Burlington Northern Santa Fe. Historic Ellensburg plans to keep up its effort to someday renovate the train depot and hopes a favorable lease agreement can be reached. "We're in it for the long haul," Lentz said. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <01b801c1c163$e2c2e0f0$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:58:49 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) January-February Bulletin For those interested, the next Bulletin is at the printers plant waiting to be printed. They plan to print it over the weekend and have it in the mail early next week. Jim Dent ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #302 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <009401c1c1ed$d815c5c0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:26:21 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Cleburne, TX Depot Gets Reprieve By: Rob Fraser, Times-Review Writer A three-way agreement delayed demolition of the Trinity & Brazos Valley Depot this morning, but the city's building and standards commission needs to hold a special meeting to make the final decision on its future. The city, represented by City Manager Chester Nolen; Dan Roberts, the owner of the depot; and Lonnie Watson, the chairman of the city's building and standards commission signed the agreement Thursday afternoon to delay demolition. The agreement states the following: The commission chairman will schedule a special meeting to consider the matter as soon as possible. Pending the commission's special meeting, Nolen will direct the city's contractor to delay demolition of the building. At the special meeting Nolen will recommend the commission modify its April 17, 1996 demolition order. Roberts will be allowed 60 days from the date of the meeting [if the commission approves it] to make the required repairs. Roberts shall be allowed to make repairs to the building, which are installing trusses and a metal roof, all the windows and doors will be boarded up with plywood and missing brick will be replaced and the remaining part of the building will be remortared. If Roberts makes the repairs to the building within the 60 days, the commission will revoke the April 17, 1996 demolition order. If Roberts does not make the repairs within the 60-day period, the building shall be demolished. Roberts agrees that if the commission modifies its demolition order and he doesn't make the repairs within the 60-day period, the city will demolish the building. A transfer of ownership of this property does not in any way invalidate the agreement. Roberts acknowledges the building and standards commission is an independent body with quasi-judicial powers that the city manager does not have authority to modify a demolition order of the commission and the city manager can only request the commission modify its order. The city manager does not warrant or represent the commission will follow his recommendation. It is understood and agreed the agreement does not modify the April 17, 1996 demolition order of the building and standards commission and such order shall remain in full force and effect unless and until it is modified by the commission. This building shall not be demolished sooner than 60 days from the date of the agreement whether or not the building standards commission vacation the April 17, 1996 demolition order. Nolen said he believed the meeting would be held Wednesday, March 13, but there are different legal notice requirements on the commission Nolen said after the signing if "Roberts makes the repair within the 60-day period, the commission will revoke the demolition order and the issue is over. If he does not make the repairs within the 60-day period the building will be demolished." Roberts said he would start the work if and when the commission approved modifying the order. He said, "We are going to be in the place where they have the authority, I've been told, to modify the order, and that's where we should have been." All three agreed the agreement was fair and equitable and Nolen said, "Nobody had their arm broke trying to get out of it." Watson said there are five members on the commission and the day the meeting is set there will need to be a quorum, a minimum of three members. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <009a01c1c1ee$d4197560$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:33:23 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Fort Madison, IA Photo link: http://www.tourriverbend.org/noleeco.jpg Museum preparing for railroad buffs Julie Nickell Staff Writer - Fort Madison Daily Democrat Workers have finished fixing flood damage at the North Lee County Historical Society's museum complex in Riverview Park. A group of 40 railroad enthusiasts from California is expected to tour the mission-style former Santa Fe Railroad passenger depot and its artifacts on Friday, March 8, said historical society board member Sheila Sallen. Volunteers currently are racing against time to ready the museum's displays. Water poured in last summer when Mississippi River floodwater, measured at 21.9 feet in Fort Madison, broke over a raised railroad bed and sandbags. Ironically, one of the group's two museums, a former freight house, is dedicated to memorabilia from the 1993 flood. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000501c1c24b$9e0be540$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:37:28 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Venice, FL Links http://www.co.sarasota.fl.us/public_works_scat/train_depot.asp (info & photos) http://www.ncf.edu/NCarchaeology/images/trainpix.gif (recent photo) http://www.venicemainstreet.com/images/text04.jpg (1926 photo) Work on train depot moves ahead 03/02/02 By MICHAEL SCARCELLA michael.scarcella_@_heraldtribune.com VENICE -- The words "All we need is love" are spray-painted on the aging Venice Train Depot, and it appears a little affection is en route. Earlier this week, architects submitted renovation plans for the 75-year-old building -- the last remaining train station in Sarasota County. They have also requested building permits from the city. "The plans are in, and we are awaiting word from the county," said James Rowland, acting project manager with Stevenson Architects Inc. Time has left its mark on the depot, which has languished since passenger train service ceased in 1971. Written in black spray paint, the question, "When was the last time?" glares from the entrance of the station. But the depot's abandonment ended in 1999 after the county bought the land and depot for $327,000, with city, state and federal funds. The ultimate plan: another passenger transportation hub -- but this time it's bus, not rail. "The depot will act as our South County bus transfer station," said Michael Perry, a financial manager with Sarasota County Area Transit. "Four bus lines will disperse to areas south and north." A makeshift transfer area is in operation on Tampa Avenue, east of U.S. 41. Operating from the depot's 3.25-acre site, one bus will serve Englewood, two will travel to and from North Port, and one bus will venture north to Sarasota. Also, the "SCAT-About" service will use the train depot as its hub. "We are still in the process of permitting and hope to have bid documents in the next three to four weeks," Perry said. "We're looking at about July 2003 for the grand opening." Before the buses roll in, however, the depot needs work. Shattered terra-cotta roof tiles, broken glass and a crumpled beer can or two litter the platform where train riders once stood. The depot's crumbling, paint-chipped walls scream for attention, and tall grasses have overgrown the railroad tracks. "The depot's not in bad shape structurally," said David Baber, general manager of Sarasota County Historical Resources. "It's kinda rundown, but I've dealt with worse buildings." Jay Goodwill, general manager for SCAT transit services, is optimistic that construction times are accurate. "As long as they get in there and don't find something unexpected, we seem fairly comfortable with construction estimates," Goodwill said. "They've looked at the building fairly closely already." Baber has been monitoring the renovation plans to ensure that the work adheres to Secretary of the Interior standards. The train depot is a local and national historic landmark: Renovation work must comply both with the city's stringent architectural code and with federal guidelines. Restoring the depot to its original appearance hasn't been the easiest task, Baber said. "You don't want to reinvent history," he explained. "But this is where it gets tricky: when you don't know the exact way it appeared before and have to make educated guesses based on knowledge of architecture." Rowland said it's been hard to find old photographs of the depot, which was built in 1927 by the founders of Venice. "We've been having a hard time getting pictures before 1960," Rowland said. "I've been posting messages on /[America Online/] to get people who may have scored pictures over time to help us. We'd like to restore the integrity of the building." Don Caillouette, a city planner, said he hopes the bus transfer station will encourage public transportation. "This building is very prominent," Caillouette said. "I would hope it'd be people friendly, a place to hang out, to promote bus ridership. When it's all said and done, the depot is going to be a tremendous asset." David Baber of Sarasota County Historical Resources says the depot isn't in bad shape structurally. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #303 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000e01c1c318$f9bf9bc0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:07:34 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Berlin, WI Renovation of Berlin's historic depot on hold By Patricia Wolff of the Northwestern BERLIN - Chamber of Commerce officials have been working hard to attract tourists to the city. They even secured a state grant to entice them by the busfull. Only problem is that once they get to Berlin, there's no place for a rest stop. Certainly, there are shops and restaurants, but no easily-accessible public bathrooms. Unless tourists know about the restrooms on the second floor of City Hall, they'd have a hard time finding accommodations. Renovation of the historic downtown depot on South Capron Street - where public bathrooms were to be located - is on hold while the owners of the building and Berlin Chamber of Commerce and Business Improvement District officials negotiate a lease price. Renovations began last summer after chamber officials and the depot owners made tentative plans for the chamber to rent part of the building and establish an information center. The plans fell through after the chamber and the city failed to decide how much the city would chip in to help cover the costs of maintaining the information/tourist center. Chamber officials asked the city to pay for paper products and utilities. They did not specify a dollar amount, said City Administrator Dennis Jordan. City officials were unwilling to give the chamber a blank check, so they asked for cost estimates, Jordan said. We asked the chamber to get us an idea of the cost. We didn't know if heating would go $700, $800, or $1,000 (per month), Jordan said. We asked them to come back with figures. It never happened, Jordan said. The lack of public restrooms is a problem that was pointed out in a tourism study of Berlin, according to Annette Hass, who owns the depot with her husband Eric. The best scenario for the city is an information center with public bathrooms. We have bus tours coming in and no bathrooms, said Carol Trampf, chamber director. The Hasses are waiting for the city and the chamber to work out the details of operating the tourist center. Once that's determined, the depot owners will know how to proceed with the renovation. From our point of view, (the depot) is still available, Hass said. The chamber has looked at it again. Now, it's up to the city. It's on their side, she said. At this point she's not sure how extensive the renovations will be. Originally, the Hasses planned to renovate the 1909 vintage building into a combination retail/professional building with space for local historical artifacts and the information center. The depot was once the hub of activity in Berlin. It's been 25 years since the depot has been a stopping point for trains. Before that, it was the commercial hub of Berlin during a 100-year span as passenger and freight trains arrived carrying such goods as beer and grains, and departed with quarry stone and cranberries. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #304 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <011101c1c396$fe1cde20$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:09:41 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Historic USGS Maps - Ohio Early 1900's USGS maps of Ohio are going online at: http://railsandtrails.com/usgs1900/oh/ ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:34:49 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Mark A. Thomas" Subject: (rshsdepot) pics of Cleburne, TX, T&BV depot NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo cleburne1.jpg (image/jpeg, 139863 bytes) cleburne2.jpg (image/jpeg, 72867 bytes) I'll give this a try ... I'm going to attach two photos of the now-famous Trinity & Brazos Valley station (later Burlington-Rock Island) in Cleburne, TX. The mail server is supposed to strip the pics, post them to a web site, and give a URL where you can find them. I may have messed them up in Photoshop, but you shold get the idea. One of the pics shows the adjacent Santa Fe depot. These were taken on a drizzly November 29, 1981. The T&BV depot was, at the time, a junque store and the Santa Fe depot was being used by the RR (can't remember how far this was from their Cleburne shops where the CF-7's were built). - --Mark, markt_@_duke.edu ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004101c1c3f1$fcf16e20$53203841_@_paul> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:01:00 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) A "Proud day on the private siding of the Waldorf" So I was perusing the Times for 1946 (yes I know this is quite up to date for me), and came across a full page ad with a stylized diesel locomotive picture. September 24, 1946 would see a 6000 HP Diesel-Electric like those going to the Santa Fe, it said. It must have been for viewing, I guess it was implying that. It ended with "This is a proud day on the private siding of the Waldorf" I didn't see any pictures in the paper the next day of this event. What has become of that siding, is it accessible still from the hotel? Later this week I will send a picture from the same month of the United Nations station on the LIRR at Flushing Meadows, with questions....be prepared! Paul ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004101c1c3f1$fcf16e20$53203841_@_paul> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:13:22 -0500 From: "David S. Rose" Subject: RE: (rshsdepot) A "Proud day on the private siding of the Waldorf" Actually, the Waldorf never really had a "private siding". Instead, the track that people keep referring to was really an extension of the siding used by the post office's Grand Central mail facility a block to the south. I don't believe the siding was ever in common use, nor available to even the rich and famous. I think it was only used a few times, primarily by Franklin Roosevelt so that he could be moved into and out of the hotel in his wheelchair. There is an emergency exit from the Park Avenue tracks that comes up inside the footprint of the Waldorf, with an exit on 49th Street just to the west of Inagiku, the hotel's [good] Japanese restaurant. - -David - -----Original Message----- From: rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net [mailto:rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of Paul S. Luchter Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 10:01 PM To: RSHSDepot Subject: (rshsdepot) A "Proud day on the private siding of the Waldorf" So I was perusing the Times for 1946 (yes I know this is quite up to date for me), and came across a full page ad with a stylized diesel locomotive picture. September 24, 1946 would see a 6000 HP Diesel-Electric like those going to the Santa Fe, it said. It must have been for viewing, I guess it was implying that. It ended with "This is a proud day on the private siding of the Waldorf" I didn't see any pictures in the paper the next day of this event. What has become of that siding, is it accessible still from the hotel? Later this week I will send a picture from the same month of the United Nations station on the LIRR at Flushing Meadows, with questions....be prepared! Paul ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006c01c1c402$21c630e0$53203841_@_paul> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:56:29 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) A "Proud day on the private siding of the Waldorf" It wasn't any of us that said "Private Siding at the Waldorf" this time, it was a full page ad in the NY Times on 9/24/1946 by the American Locomotive Company Paul - -----Original Message----- From: David S. Rose To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:21 PM Subject: RE: (rshsdepot) A "Proud day on the private siding of the Waldorf" >Actually, the Waldorf never really had a "private siding". Instead, the >track that people keep referring to was really an extension of the siding >used by the post office's Grand Central mail facility a block to the south. >I don't believe the siding was ever in common use, nor available to even the >rich and famous. I think it was only used a few times, primarily by Franklin >Roosevelt so that he could be moved into and out of the hotel in his >wheelchair. There is an emergency exit from the Park Avenue tracks that >comes up inside the footprint of the Waldorf, with an exit on 49th Street >just to the west of Inagiku, the hotel's [good] Japanese restaurant. > >-David > >-----Original Message----- >From: rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net >[mailto:rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of Paul S. Luchter >Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 10:01 PM >To: RSHSDepot >Subject: (rshsdepot) A "Proud day on the private siding of the Waldorf" > > >So I was perusing the Times for 1946 (yes I know this is quite up to >date for me), and came across a full page ad with a stylized diesel >locomotive picture. September 24, 1946 would see a 6000 HP >Diesel-Electric like those going to the Santa Fe, it said. It must have >been for viewing, I guess it was implying that. It ended with "This is a >proud day on the private siding of the Waldorf" I didn't see any >pictures in the paper the next day of this event. > >What has become of that siding, is it accessible still from the hotel? > >Later this week I will send a picture from the same month of the United >Nations station on the LIRR at Flushing Meadows, with questions....be >prepared! >Paul > > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #305 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00a801c1c435$51c59aa0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 06:02:59 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Palatka, FL Links: http://www.gbso.net/prps/ http://www.putnamcountychamber.org/postcardtour/15jpg.htm http://www.freac.fsu.edu/HistoricPlaces/Sites/8PU00271_depot.html 03/4/2002 Officials envision transportation hub for tourists coming to Putnam By Virginia Wissel Palatka Daily News PALATKA -- Promoting tourism was on the minds of officials who want to make Palatka a tourist destination by creating a transportation hub. Nancy Harris, county commissioner, and Larry Pritchett, property appraiser, spoke as members of the Waterfront Development Committee at the city commission meeting Thursday about actions to make that possible. Harris presented the committee's ideas about joint cooperation between the county and the city to create the hub for visitors. "When people arrive at the train station, how do they get around? If they come at night, it is difficult to get a taxi. How can they get to the hotels? We don't have a bus service," Harris said. Harris suggested a police substation at the train depot or a travel office and asked if commissioners could sit down with representatives from Amtrak for further discussion." Mayor Karl Flagg said, "Conceptually, this sounds good, but we do not want to bring outsiders in to discuss this before we have a plan." Flagg asked City Manager Allen Bush to send a letter to County Administrator Rick Leary asking for the item to be put on the agenda for a special city and county visioning meeting Friday. Jeff Norton of the parks and recreation department told commissioners Amtrak was waiting until its renovations were completed at the train depot before considering a ticket agent. "Amtrak brings in 14,000 passengers a year," Norton said. "With their cutbacks, the city will lose one train out of the eight that service Palatka." Greyhound bus service has closed their station in Palatka because of lack of ridership. Pritchett said the "dreams can go beyond the depot." He mentioned the retail area around the depot as "a historic commercial district that needs to be revitalized." Harris envisioned the mayor appointing a committee to study the problem. Commissioners Mary Lawson Brown, George Sanders and Bush are members of the Putnam County Chamber of Commerce's Waterfront Development Committee that includes representatives from the communities of Crescent City, Welaka and Palatka. The group has pushed for a waterfront master plan that promotes tourism and increases public access to the St. Johns River. "How can people who come into town take the riverboat we are planning if they can't get to the water?" Harris said. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <010701c1c4cb$3e450380$1f42f6d1_@_paul> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:55:59 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo WaldorfSiding.jpg (image/jpeg, 106386 bytes) Here we have the horse's mouth. The NY Times article September 23, 1946. The American Locomotive Company's 6000-horsepower Diesel-electric locomotive that will head to Santa Fe RR system to be used between Chicago and Los Angeles, "was exhibited on the Waldorf's private siding beneath the hotel...Today and tomorrow the public will be admitted to inspect it." I don't think they entered through the Post Office....a month later GM displayed theirs in Chicago. How many other diesel engines ever entered the Park Avenue tunnel? Paul Luchter ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <016601c1c4d1$0dee1400$9f4b0e44_@_ri.cox.net> References: <010701c1c4cb$3e450380$1f42f6d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:37:50 -0500 From: "JIMBEAR" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul S. Luchter" >To: "RSHSDepot" >Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 11:55 PM >Subject: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" It must have been an ALCO PA1-PB1-PA1 demonstrator set. > How many other diesel engines ever entered the Park Avenue tunnel? NH EMD FL9s did it for years. Some of them are still running for Metro-North. Normally they ran on 3rd rail power or used the overhead catenary thru the puzzle switches, but there's an old story that towards the end of the NH era, the FL9s weren't being maintained properly and often had to run on diesel all the way into GCT. Supposedly the Park Avenue tunnel was never so free of vermin, before or since. ;-) > Paul Luchter > > ================================= > The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing > railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010701c1c4cb$3e450380$1f42f6d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:42:15 -0500 From: "David S. Rose" Subject: RE: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" OK, now you've aroused my curiosity. I've done a little research on the "Waldorf station", and will do a little more, but the stories are certainly conflicting. The most recent one, from this past September, certainly tends to support the existence of the siding. But I recall reading a very authoritative debunking of the siding (which is the source for my previous comments on the list) and I'll try to dig that up as well. Here's the tantalizing description from the Journal News, a Gannett paper: A VIP station While the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel and Grand Central Terminal were being completed side by side in 1932, an underground train station for the elite was built off a trunk line at Track 61. This station, hidden within the terminal, allowed Roosevelt and other VIPs to arrive in New York in style. It also had the advantage of concealing FDR's wheelchair use from the public. "His armor-plated Pierce Arrow car would drive off the train, onto this platform and into the elevator, and it would bring him and his car into the hotel garage,'' Metro-North Railroad spokesman Dan Brucker said while offering a rare tour of the long-unused station. "He could take the presidential train back to Hyde Park without ever leaving the building.'' The 6-foot-wide elevator, built to accommodate a 6,000-pound armored car, is kept in shape by elevator mechanic Darick Jones. Once at street level, Jones yanks the elevator gates open to reveal 49th Street. Driving an automobile with a slim profile, one could still make a sharp, right U-turn into the Waldorf garage. "Once or twice a year, the Secret Service will be there,'' Brucker said. "It is still protected. It's a means of access.'' The locked entrance to the secret station is down a stairway concealed behind a brass door marked 101-121 49th St., below a sign that reads "Metro-North Fire Exit.'' In 1965, the platform was used for one of Andy Warhol's underground parties, according to "Grand Central: Gateway to a Million Lives'' by John Bell and Maxinne R. Leighton, published last year by W.W. Norton & Co. - -----Original Message----- From: rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net [mailto:rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of Paul S. Luchter Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 11:56 PM To: RSHSDepot Subject: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Here we have the horse's mouth... ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <019c01c1c4d8$a4cd9100$1f42f6d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 01:31:58 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Waiting for the A Train, The Sophisticated Pigeon N.Y. Times March 6, 2002 Front page below the fold. Waiting for the A Train, The Sophisticated Pigeon by Randy Kennedy [Tunnel Vision column] [A photo by William C. Lopez of 3 pigeons waiting on an outdoor platform for the train] In the annals of strange subway stories--some pure urban legend, some alarmingly real--there has always been a menagerie of animals. Stories of alligators roaming the tunnels, of pet snakes loose on trains, of rats tough enough to survive the third rail. There have been eyewitness accounts of live chickens, on their way from poultry market to soup pot, escaping from sacks and running amok through cars. Recently, someone posted a story on the Internet about a man in the subway walking a dog that was being ridden by a cat, the dog and cat dressed in matching Uncle Sam hats. (The story was accompanied by a photograph to prove that it was not made up by Dr. Suesse.} But one subway animal story has been so persistent and widespread that it simply cried out to be investigated: the case of the train-riding pigeons of Far Rockaway. A little more than a year ago, a motorman and a conductor on the A line, which terminates at the Far Rockaway station, swore to this reporter that it was true. They said it was common knowledge among longtime riders and those who worked on the line. Pigeons, they said, would board the trains at the outdoor terminal and then step off casually at the next station down the line, Beach 25th Street, as if they were heading south but were too lazy, or too fat, to fly. The inquiry began the other afternoon, when the question was put to a car cleaning supervisor at the terminal. He appeared suspiciously nervous about the subject. "Oh, no," he said. "Our trains have no pigeons. But Andrew Rizzo, 44, a cleaner sweeping in a nearby train, looked around and smiled as if he were finally going to reveal his secret. The birds ride the trains all the time, he explained, motivated not by sloth but by simple hunger and ignorance: when the trains lay over at the terminal to be cleaned, for about 20 minutes, pigeons amble through the doors, looking for forgotten crumbs. But being pigeons, they do not listen for the announcement that the train is leaving, and the doors close on them. They ride generally for one stop, exiting as soon as the doors open again. "If you don't know what's going on," said Mr. Rizzo, pushing his glasses up on his nose, "you'd think they knew what they were doing. It's a little freaky." Mr. Rizzo has a soft spot in his heart for pigeons, who helped him make a living in Central Park in the late 1980's when he was less gainfully employed. He would wear straps with tiny cups of birdfeed on his arms and head and would soon be covered with pigeons, Hitchcock-style. He would put out a donation box, and pull in $200 a weekend. "I still; feed them sometimes," he said. "I feel bad for these little guys." But he also admitted: "I run them out of the train. I don't want them to make no mistakes, if you know what I mean." Despite his efforts, they make many little mistakes. Mr. Rizzo and many of his fellow employees at the terminal have become amateur ornithologists. They said that pigeons--known vulgarly as air rats, more elegantly as rock doves--ride trains at several outdoor terminals and stations, like the Stillwell Avenue station in Coney Island. Francisco Pe=F1a, a conductor on the A, said he watched them step off his train and promptly fly back to the Far Rockaway terminal. Perhaps not quite as impressive as the blue homing pigeon reported to have flown 7,200 miles from France back to Vietnam in the 1930's, but still, Mr. Pe=F1a said, not bad. Frank Maynor, a car cleaner, noted how the sparrows and seagulls, also plentiful at the terminal, are never bold enough to venture into the cars. The sparrows can be seen hopping onto the threshold, looking longingly inside. The gulls loiter outside like thugs, waiting to tear pizza crusts from the bills of unsuspecting pigeons as soon as they carry them out. "They shove the pigeons around," said Mr. Maynor, disapprovingly. "But they're going to evolve and start going into the trains, too. They're giving up a lot of food to the pigeons." On the subject of evolution, Sarah Canty, another cleaner, said she had noticed that the pigeons might be evolving into more alert straphangers. "When the bell goes off, you watch them," she said. "They know the bell like we do." And indeed, when the next bell rang, signaling that a train was about to depart, several pigeons could be seen high-stepping it out of the trains. But there are those who have either not learned or are yearning to break free of the nest. And at 10:45 yesterday morning, it finally happened: a dark, plump bird with iridescent purple feathers around the neck took a ride. Alone with the bird in the car was Eduard Karlov, a retired procurement officer for the United Nations. Mr. Karlov, originally from Moscow, glanced over at his fellow passenger and smiled. "He does not bother me, and, in fact, I find him rather amusing," he said, adding, "I cannot give you any more details with respect to pigeons, however." [3 more pictures, vertically downward: The pigeon waiting inside the A train subway car, seemingly aloof, looking pensive, between the two poles, with the light coming through the subway door windows, the pigeon sunning itself in the upper pane's sunlight. The second picture shows the pigeon departing the train as the door has opened, the Beach 25 St/Wavecrest station sign on the platform it is departing onto. The bottom picture is of the pigeon, it looks like it is deciding what to do next looking up the platform away from the train, its door still open. The caption reads: "With no tokens to its name, a pigeon that got on the A train at the Far Rockaway station in Queens pondered its next move, top. Workers say pigeons often board there and exit one stop later."] ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000901c1c4dc$de89b320$9f4b0e44_@_ri.cox.net> References: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 02:02:24 -0500 From: "JIMBEAR" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Well, David, I don't know for sure when the Waldorf-Astoria was built (1932 sounds right), but Grand Central was completed in 1912. That's a 20 year discrepancy in that story. Besides, if the Waldorf was being "completed" in 1932, how would the station have been designed for FDR who wasn't even elected until November of that year? I'm sure FDR used it on many occasions, but it wasn't designed for him. Either the Metro-North spokesman was getting his facts wrong, or else the reporter took a few unrelated facts and wove them into a "good" story. Jim.. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David S. Rose" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:42 AM Subject: RE: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > A VIP station > > While the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel and Grand Central Terminal were being > completed side by side in 1932, an underground train station for the elite > was built off a trunk line at Track 61. This station, hidden within the > terminal, allowed Roosevelt and other VIPs to arrive in New York in style. > It also had the advantage of concealing FDR's wheelchair use from the > public. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #306 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <161.9e12d82.29b765b9_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:29:45 EST From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" In a message dated 3/5/02 11:55:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, luckyshow_@_mindspring.com writes: > How many other diesel engines ever entered the Park Avenue tunnel? > Quite a few. For many years, Metro-North operated FL-9 diesel-electric engines into the Park Avenue tunnels. Although they were supposed to operate under electric power while in the tunnels, the electric mode often malfunctioned -- especially in the later years of their operation - -- and as a result, they would be operated in diesel mode while in the tunnels. Daniel Chazin Teaneck, NJ ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:37:24 EST From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" In a message dated 3/6/02 12:38:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, ribear_@_cox.net writes: > NH EMD FL9s did it for years. Some of them are still running for > Metro-North. Normally they ran on 3rd rail power or used the overhead > catenary thru the puzzle switches, but there's an old story that towards > the end of the NH era, the FL9s weren't being maintained properly and > often had to run on diesel all the way into GCT. Two corrections. First of all, the FL-9's have third-rail shoes, but do not have pantographs and therefore could not use overhead catenary (which does not exist at GCT or in the Park Avenue tunnels, anyway). Secondly, the operation of FL-9s under diesel power occurred not only during the New Haven era, but also very recently, under the operation of Metro-North. In fact, while, to the best of my knowledge, these FL-9's are no longer regularly assigned to trains running to GCT, they still could be in an emergency. And it is also possible that the electric power of the Genesis engines that replaced them could, on occasion, malfunction. So you could possibly find a diesel engine in GCT even today! Daniel Chazin Teaneck, NJ ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C8610E6.2010701_@_bellsouth.net> References: Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 07:51:50 -0500 From: Seth Bramson Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" >>>First, thank you all for this fascinating look at history, BUT, and second, pls see below for questions/comments: David S. Rose wrote: >OK, now you've aroused my curiosity. I've done a little research on the >"Waldorf station", and will do a little more, but the stories are certainly >conflicting. The most recent one, from this past September, certainly tends >to support the existence of the siding. But I recall reading a very >authoritative debunking of the siding (which is the source for my previous >comments on the list) and I'll try to dig that up as well. Here's the >tantalizing description from the Journal News, a Gannett paper: > >A VIP station > >While the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel and Grand Central Terminal were being >completed side by side in 1932, > >>>Something doesn't schmeck right here. The hotel, 1932, yes, but GCT (the "new" one, the one we know today) replaced the old one some years earlier, I believe. Can somebody double check this? >an underground train station for the elite >was built off a trunk line at Track 61. This station, hidden within the >terminal, allowed Roosevelt and other VIPs to arrive in New York in style. >It also had the advantage of concealing FDR's wheelchair use from the >public. > >"His armor-plated Pierce Arrow car would drive off the train, onto this >platform and into the elevator, and it would bring him and his car into the >hotel garage,'' > >>>How? I never saw pictures of any kind of box car looking rail conveyance carrying his car. Did they set up the car carrying FDR's automobile into a bumper type arrangement, where the auto drove through the opened end of the box car directly onto a platform? It doesn't seem to me they could have manuevered it out of the boxcar if it (the boxcar) was parked next to a concrete platform. Something about this part of it just doesn't sound right. Comments? ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005101c1c513$c79d2660$9f4b0e44_@_ri.cox.net> References: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:35:26 -0500 From: "JIMBEAR" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Daniel, Yes, the first group of 30 FL-9s (2000-2029) did have small roof-mounted pantographs to provide electrical power thru the GCT puzzle trackage where third rail could not be laid. There's a good, close-up picture of the pantographs in J. W. Swanberg's NEW HAVEN POWER (NYC electrics also included small pantographs for the same reason). The second group of thirty FL-9s was built without them. And all I actually said was that they were still running for Metro-North because I wasn't sure whether or not they were still running into GCT. Jim. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 7:37 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > In a message dated 3/6/02 12:38:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, ribear_@_cox.net > writes: > > > > NH EMD FL9s did it for years. Some of them are still running for > > Metro-North. Normally they ran on 3rd rail power or used the overhead > > catenary thru the puzzle switches, but there's an old story that towards > > the end of the NH era, the FL9s weren't being maintained properly and > > often had to run on diesel all the way into GCT. > > Two corrections. First of all, the FL-9's have third-rail shoes, but > do not have pantographs and therefore could not use overhead catenary (which > does not exist at GCT or in the Park Avenue tunnels, anyway). Secondly, the > operation of FL-9s under diesel power occurred not only during the New Haven > era, but also very recently, under the operation of Metro-North. In fact, > while, to the best of my knowledge, these FL-9's are no longer regularly > assigned to trains running to GCT, they still could be in an emergency. And > it is also possible that the electric power of the Genesis engines that > replaced them could, on occasion, malfunction. So you could possibly find a > diesel engine in GCT even today! > > Daniel Chazin > Teaneck, NJ > > ================================= > The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing > railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001e01c1c516$b1c7d3a0$be45fd3f_@_0019873538> References: <005101c1c513$c79d2660$9f4b0e44@ri.cox.net> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:56:12 -0500 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" At least one other diesel visitor to GCT was an E-7 or (I think) E-8 when a Hudson was also on display, around the summer of 1953, I think in connection with the end of steam east of Buffalo. I just barely remember it, as an almost-10-year-old. I don't know if it went in under its own power, or more likely for the then-sacred precincts, was shoved in by a motor. Steve Delibert ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <007f01c1c516$e1c63420$9f4b0e44_@_ri.cox.net> References: <3C8610E6.2010701@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:57:40 -0500 From: "JIMBEAR" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" I agree with you, Seth. It's a highly unlikely story. It was probably an ordinary freight elevator for receiving baggage and mail. Even assuming that he arrived at the platform by rail, why not just roll his wheelchair into the elevator and take him up to the garage level to enter his limo? Jim. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seth Bramson" To: "David S. Rose" > >>>How? I never saw pictures of any kind of box car looking rail > conveyance carrying his car. Did they set up the car carrying FDR's > automobile into a bumper type arrangement, where the auto drove through > the opened end of the box car directly onto a platform? It doesn't seem > to me they could have manuevered it out of the boxcar if it (the boxcar) > was parked next to a concrete platform. Something about this part of it > just doesn't sound right. Comments? ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <82482485.1015421462_@_sodor.cc.columbia.edu> References: <010701c1c4cb$3e450380$1f42f6d1_@_paul> In-Reply-To: <010701c1c4cb$3e450380$1f42f6d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:31:02 -0500 From: Joseph Brennan Subject: (rshsdepot) Re: "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" No, they would have entered through the door at 101-121 E 49 St. Photo at the bottom of http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html I looked at the Times index for that story and missed it. Middleton's book mentions this event. Joe - --On Tuesday, March 5, 2002 23:55 -0500 "Paul S. Luchter" wrote: > > Here we have the horse's mouth. The NY Times article September 23, 1946. The American Locomotive > Company's 6000-horsepower Diesel-electric locomotive that will head to Santa Fe RR system to be > used between Chicago and Los Angeles, "was exhibited on the Waldorf's private siding beneath the > hotel...Today and tomorrow the public will be admitted to inspect it." I don't think they entered > through the Post Office....a month later GM displayed theirs in Chicago. > How many other diesel engines ever entered the Park Avenue tunnel? > Paul Luchter ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <82482485.1015421462_@_sodor.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:11:57 -0500 From: "David S. Rose" Subject: RE: (rshsdepot) Re: "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Joe, Wow! Well, that exhaustive description would certainly seem to be dispositive! It does raise several fascinating questions, however: (1) since the Waldorf managed to build itself a little basement on the south side of 50th Street, that little strip would seem to be directly adjacent to the end of the "Waldorf platform". One must wonder whether it would be possible for them to just open up a door right onto the platform itself; (2) who controls the platform? I assume it is whomever controls the rest of the Grand Central yard, which would be Metro North? CSX? or maybe the Waldorf itself?; (3) what do you think the odds are for anyone to actually use that for anything? - -David the Curious and Curiouser - -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Brennan Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM No, they would have entered through the door at 101-121 E 49 St. Photo at the bottom of http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006101c1c552$3b1e0da0$9f4b0e44_@_ri.cox.net> References: <010701c1c4cb$3e450380$1f42f6d1_@_paul> <82482485.1015421462@sodor.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:02:30 -0500 From: "JIMBEAR" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Re: "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Thanks, Joe. That certainly seems to be the definitive answer. Jim. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Brennan" To: "Paul S. Luchter" ; "RSHSDepot" Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Re: "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > No, they would have entered through the door at 101-121 E 49 St. Photo > at the bottom of http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html > > I looked at the Times index for that story and missed it. Middleton's > book mentions this event. > > Joe > > > > --On Tuesday, March 5, 2002 23:55 -0500 "Paul S. Luchter" wrote: > > > > > Here we have the horse's mouth. The NY Times article September 23, 1946. The American Locomotive > > Company's 6000-horsepower Diesel-electric locomotive that will head to Santa Fe RR system to be > > used between Chicago and Los Angeles, "was exhibited on the Waldorf's private siding beneath the > > hotel...Today and tomorrow the public will be admitted to inspect it." I don't think they entered > > through the Post Office....a month later GM displayed theirs in Chicago. > > How many other diesel engines ever entered the Park Avenue tunnel? > > Paul Luchter > > > ================================= > The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing > railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <66.1d254383.29b7ecc7_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 17:05:59 EST From: PifyJtrain_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Last Satrfday AMTRAK detoured trains to GCT whcih ran in diesel mode ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:55:36 -0500 From: Subject: Re: RE: (rshsdepot) Re: OK, first I should mention that it has taken me about 2 hours to see this message. Outlook Express kept disconnecting the server before I got a message. Even as I was connected. So maybe a message is corrupt, so I go to Springmail, an web way to see my mail..to do this I must turn off my cookie blocker and then approve each cookie one by ibe..but it kept crashing, or possibly the Opera browser which seems to also be now broken....it eventually would act weird, all of a sudden after I was in my mail box it said all of a sudden taht I didsn't have a cookie....so now I am at the slowere and semi-despised Internet Explorer, hoping this message can get out...I have one answer maybe for all the questions below.. I will send it in a secong message though if this works...I would like to ask what was the talk of a car going up an elevator and into a garage? from the train on the platform....a 1940's car? OK here goes rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net wrote: > Joe, Wow! Well, that exhaustive description would certainly seem to be dispositive! It does raise several fascinating questions, however: (1) since the Waldorf managed to build itself a little basement on the south side of 50th Street, that little strip would seem to be directly adjacent to the end of the "Waldorf platform". One must wonder whether it would be possible for them to just open up a door right onto the platform itself; (2) who controls the platform? I assume it is whomever controls the rest of the Grand Central yard, which would be Metro North? CSX? or maybe the Waldorf itself?; (3) what do you think the odds are for anyone to actually use that for anything? - -David the Curious and Curiouser - -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Brennan Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM No, they would have entered through the door at 101-121 E 49 St. Photo at the bottom of http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:13:57 -0500 From: Subject: (rshsdepot) New York Central Lines Power Plant (was re: 420 ton locomotive, etceteras...) I bet a lot of you are by a library with indexes and microfilm.... I only hadd time tonite to search the indexes, ....Construction of the new Waldorf-Astoria Hotel would begin after (much approval processes and) and the demolition of the New York Central Lines Power Plant. So a power plant built along with the midtown multi-block bridge for all the streets around and the tunnel below....well if this power station was built along with the rest of GCT project, I guess this might easily explain sidings and elevators big enough for a small car...anyway why are we questioning a tour of the site....I didn't know we should be suspitious of all articles and histories of railroad sites....these people seem very credivble.... So there you have it....I wll be reading each article from 1929 (this article in June to 1932...I am sure they will mention the private siding and the big elevator (wasn't it said to be 9 feet? That really is not so big, especially for a power plant that might have been for all of the Manhattan electricity needs for the GCT electric trains and power and heat possibly....more to come) I sadly report that many of the Waldorf-Astoria long time residents were quite saddened by the closing of the 34th street hotel, many gala goodbye dinners were fruited. last night on the web, I scanned about 30 of the 14,000 hitsin a search. I learned that the Astor Hotel and the mother's Waldorf were separated by an alley because the two hated each other. This alley eventually became a posh site for the la-dee-dah. They showed off and preened a lot and the alley became known as Peacock Alley. I think this is a restaurant now in the current hotel...Astor and his mom hated each other so much taht the hotel when it merged was called Waldorf=Astoria, with the equal sign. I guess that was because they couldn't decide which name should be first (Astor built the first hotl on 34th next door to the family mansion on the corner. She moved uptown and built the competitor Waldorf,, Anyway what do y'all think of my Power Station theory of private siding? Paul rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net wrote: > I agree with you, Seth. It's a highly unlikely story. It was probably an ordinary freight elevator for receiving baggage and mail. Even assuming that he arrived at the platform by rail, why not just roll his wheelchair into the elevator and take him up to the garage level to enter his limo? Jim. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seth Bramson" To: "David S. Rose" > >>>How? I never saw pictures of any kind of box car looking rail > conveyance carrying his car. Did they set up the car carrying FDR's > automobile into a bumper type arrangement, where the auto drove through > the opened end of the box car directly onto a platform? It doesn't seem > to me they could have manuevered it out of the boxcar if it (the boxcar) > was parked next to a concrete platform. Something about this part of it > just doesn't sound right. Comments? ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002101c1c58e$9f7a39e0$be5cf6d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:14:45 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Probably a dumb question...re: NH EMD FL-9's-why would a New Haven power not have catenary but only a shoe? - -----Original Message----- From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 7:39 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" >In a message dated 3/6/02 12:38:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, ribear_@_cox.net >writes: > > >> NH EMD FL9s did it for years. Some of them are still running for >> Metro-North. Normally they ran on 3rd rail power or used the overhead >> catenary thru the puzzle switches, but there's an old story that towards >> the end of the NH era, the FL9s weren't being maintained properly and >> often had to run on diesel all the way into GCT. > > Two corrections. First of all, the FL-9's have third-rail shoes, but >do not have pantographs and therefore could not use overhead catenary (which >does not exist at GCT or in the Park Avenue tunnels, anyway). Secondly, the >operation of FL-9s under diesel power occurred not only during the New Haven >era, but also very recently, under the operation of Metro-North. In fact, >while, to the best of my knowledge, these FL-9's are no longer regularly >assigned to trains running to GCT, they still could be in an emergency. And >it is also possible that the electric power of the Genesis engines that >replaced them could, on occasion, malfunction. So you could possibly find a >diesel engine in GCT even today! > > Daniel Chazin > Teaneck, NJ > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004401c1c590$36f0d580$be5cf6d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:26:08 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Re: "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" I didn't think CSX or Metro North were around when this was used - -----Original Message----- From: David S. Rose To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:16 PM Subject: RE: (rshsdepot) Re: "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" >Joe, > Wow! Well, that exhaustive description would certainly seem to be >dispositive! It does raise several fascinating questions, however: (1) since >the Waldorf managed to build itself a little basement on the south side of >50th Street, that little strip would seem to be directly adjacent to the end >of the "Waldorf platform". One must wonder whether it would be possible for >them to just open up a door right onto the platform itself; (2) who controls >the platform? I assume it is whomever controls the rest of the Grand Central >yard, which would be Metro North? CSX? or maybe the Waldorf itself?; (3) >what do you think the odds are for anyone to actually use that for anything? > >-David the Curious and Curiouser > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joseph Brennan >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM > >No, they would have entered through the door at 101-121 E 49 St. Photo >at the bottom of http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html > > > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:30:14 EST From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" In a message dated 3/6/02 11:15:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, luckyshow_@_mindspring.com writes: > re: NH EMD FL-9's-why would a New Haven power not have catenary but only a > shoe? As a layman, it would seem to me that using electric power to run a diesel-electric engine should be no more complicated than taking a laptop computer and plugging it into an electric outlet. I would have thought that the railroad would want to take advantage of the availability of cheap electric power and would choose to run the engines by electric power whenever possible. The facts, though, apparently are a little different. For some reason that I don't fully understand, the conversion of electric power from catenary or third-rail to the type needed to run a diesel-electric engine is very complicated. It is so complicated that these FL-9-type engines operate under electric power only when absolutely necessary. They cannot achieve full power when operating in electric mode. Thus, Metro-North operates trains with dual-power Genesis engines from Grand Central Terminal in New York City to Poughkeepsie. The line is electrified all the way to Croton-Harmon, but the dual-mode engines operate in electric power mode only until they get out of the Park Avenue tunnels. The rest of the way, they operate in diesel mode. So, to answer the first question, the only purpose of the electric mode of the FL-9 was to get the train out of the Park Avenue tunnels. Thus, there was no need to have pantographs for the catenary on the New Haven line. Daniel Chazin Teaneck, NJ ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:35:20 EST From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Re: "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Here is some clarification of the issue from a friend of mine who works for Metro-North: The overhead third rail is out of service in GCT. To the best of my knowledge the FL9's never used it. When we swiched first, with the S-Motors and then eventually with the Niagara Junction engines, we did use the overhead rail. FL9's do operate into Grand Central, usually on DH moves to get the engines to and from Harmon Shop. They are no longer equipped with electric capabilities. The Genesis do work on electric 99% of the time, but will operate in diesel mode if there is a problem. Daniel Chazin Teaneck, NJ ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <032101c1c595$7965d3c0$9f4b0e44_@_ri.cox.net> References: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:03:51 -0500 From: "JIMBEAR" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Lucky and Daniel, It was even more complicated than that. The New Haven's overhead catenary system ran on 11,000 volt AC current, while the NYC's 3rd rail system ran on 600 volt DC. The FL-9s were ordered at a time when the NH under the lamentable (but unlamented) Patrick McGinnis was considering abandoning the entire electrification from New Haven to Woodlawn Junction. The FL-9s were designed to run from Boston to Woodlawn on diesel, then switch over to the NYC's 3rd rail power at Woodlawn to comply with NYC ordinances that required electric motive power. The FL-9 didn't need the large AC pantographs used on the other NH electrics because the catenary wasn't supposed to be there anymore, but they did need special 3rd rail shoes that could be set in two different positions -- one for the NYC's under-running 3rd rails, and another for the LIRR/PRR top-contact rail in case they had run into Penn Station. As Daniel mentioned, the electrical control system system required to change from the onboard power to 3rd rail power was complicated and never really perfected in the FL-9s -- there were several cases of electrical fires in FL-9s including one that had to go back to EMD for a complete rebuild. Jim. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:30 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > In a message dated 3/6/02 11:15:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > luckyshow_@_mindspring.com writes: > > > > re: NH EMD FL-9's-why would a New Haven power not have catenary but only a > > shoe? > > As a layman, it would seem to me that using electric power to run a > diesel-electric engine should be no more complicated than taking a laptop > computer and plugging it into an electric outlet. I would have thought that > the railroad would want to take advantage of the availability of cheap > electric power and would choose to run the engines by electric power whenever > possible. > > The facts, though, apparently are a little different. For some reason > that I don't fully understand, the conversion of electric power from catenary > or third-rail to the type needed to run a diesel-electric engine is very > complicated. It is so complicated that these FL-9-type engines operate under > electric power only when absolutely necessary. They cannot achieve full > power when operating in electric mode. Thus, Metro-North operates trains > with dual-power Genesis engines from Grand Central Terminal in New York City > to Poughkeepsie. The line is electrified all the way to Croton-Harmon, but > the dual-mode engines operate in electric power mode only until they get out > of the Park Avenue tunnels. The rest of the way, they operate in diesel > mode. > > So, to answer the first question, the only purpose of the electric > mode of the FL-9 was to get the train out of the Park Avenue tunnels. Thus, > there was no need to have pantographs for the catenary on the New Haven line. > > Daniel Chazin > Teaneck, NJ ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <007c01c1c59b$ce433bc0$be5cf6d1_@_paul> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:49:08 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Re: "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" OK, if they are dead heading to Harmon, why are they in GCT in the first place, they must have operated to get there, is that the only way to get them to change divisions? Paul ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008c01c1c59c$e3d8f0a0$be5cf6d1_@_paul> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:56:53 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Was getting rid of the catenary by the Milwaukee Road (and C&NW too?) a good move or a bad move.. Does the South Shore use same power as Illinois Central and NE corridor? - -----Original Message----- From: JIMBEAR To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:05 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" >Lucky and Daniel, >It was even more complicated than that. The New Haven's overhead >catenary system ran on 11,000 volt AC current, while the NYC's 3rd >rail system ran on 600 volt DC. The FL-9s were ordered at a time >when the NH under the lamentable (but unlamented) Patrick McGinnis >was considering abandoning the entire electrification from New Haven >to Woodlawn Junction. The FL-9s were designed to run from Boston >to Woodlawn on diesel, then switch over to the NYC's 3rd rail power >at Woodlawn to comply with NYC ordinances that required electric >motive power. The FL-9 didn't need the large AC pantographs used >on the other NH electrics because the catenary wasn't supposed to be >there anymore, but they did need special 3rd rail shoes that could be >set in two different positions -- one for the NYC's under-running 3rd >rails, and another for the LIRR/PRR top-contact rail in case they had >run into Penn Station. As Daniel mentioned, the electrical control system >system required to change from the onboard power to 3rd rail power >was complicated and never really perfected in the FL-9s -- there were >several cases of electrical fires in FL-9s including one that had to go >back to EMD for a complete rebuild. > >Jim. > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:30 PM >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > > >> In a message dated 3/6/02 11:15:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> luckyshow_@_mindspring.com writes: >> >> >> > re: NH EMD FL-9's-why would a New Haven power not have catenary but only a >> > shoe? >> >> As a layman, it would seem to me that using electric power to run a >> diesel-electric engine should be no more complicated than taking a laptop >> computer and plugging it into an electric outlet. I would have thought that >> the railroad would want to take advantage of the availability of cheap >> electric power and would choose to run the engines by electric power whenever >> possible. >> >> The facts, though, apparently are a little different. For some reason >> that I don't fully understand, the conversion of electric power from catenary >> or third-rail to the type needed to run a diesel-electric engine is very >> complicated. It is so complicated that these FL-9-type engines operate under >> electric power only when absolutely necessary. They cannot achieve full >> power when operating in electric mode. Thus, Metro-North operates trains >> with dual-power Genesis engines from Grand Central Terminal in New York City >> to Poughkeepsie. The line is electrified all the way to Croton-Harmon, but >> the dual-mode engines operate in electric power mode only until they get out >> of the Park Avenue tunnels. The rest of the way, they operate in diesel >> mode. >> >> So, to answer the first question, the only purpose of the electric >> mode of the FL-9 was to get the train out of the Park Avenue tunnels. Thus, >> there was no need to have pantographs for the catenary on the New Haven line. >> >> Daniel Chazin >> Teaneck, NJ > > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #307 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004001c1c5cb$163cc980$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:27:37 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Wahoo, NE Renovation lies ahead By Lynn Slusarski/Lee Enterprises Fremont Tribune WAHOO -- The Saunders County Historical Society is making plans to renovate one of its most prized possessions, the Wahoo Railroad Depot. The depot's exterior will be repaired, along with a new roof, siding and fresh coat of paint. Some drainage problems also will be fixed. Renovations are being done based on original pictures of the depot, which is how the society discovered the depot was missing loading docks that will be added with the renovations. The museum also has a new curator -- Erin Hauser. The former curator was at the museum for five years. Hauser has been at the Saunders County Museum since October 2001. She said the Saunders County Museum curator is the first museum position she has had since going through the Museum Cities Program at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Hauser is a Nebraska native, but is not from the Wahoo area. "The program is good about putting a lot of job opportunities out there," Hauser said. Hauser said she has been enjoying her time at the museum and in Saunders County. "It is a lot of fun and I have met a lot of interesting people. I love to hear the stories (of people in Saunders County)," Hauser said. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004601c1c5cc$54420e60$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:36:30 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Philadelphia, MS City buying depot is proposed By MITCH LUCAS The Neshoba Democrat A downtown revitalization group has urged the Mayor and Board of Aldermen to purchase the historic railroad depot for use as a welcome center. Representatives from the Philadelphia Main Street Association asked the city to purchase the near century-old building from a local developer. The mayor says he is receptive to the idea and at least one alderman said he 'd listen to the proposal and evaluate the costs. Officials took the matter under advisement Tuesday night. The decision to go before the city board about the depot was the latest of recent events to bring the building under public ownership and start a renovation process that involves federal grants. In the last six years, there have been suggestions that offices for the chamber of commerce, and more recently, a civic partnership, relocate to a restored depot. The building is located between Main and Beacon Streets just west of downtown. There is access to the depot from both streets, which, supporters say, combined with its central location, would make it ideal to house a welcome center that would provide information on the community. The idea of office space is still being bantered, as well as a small museum, officials said. But in order for the restoration process to move forward, the depot needs to be owned by a public entity, said Main Street Association Director Stacy Pair, who was to be the spokesperson for the contingent. "The depot ... has been here through all of our changes. What a better representative of both our past and our future than that? It's in good shape, and it needs to be salvaged. It's such a big part of our history." Jackie Hester, president of Philadelphia Main Street's board of directors, concurred. "I think the city purchasing the depot would be a good move. It's such a landmark, and also because of its location, I would hate to see it not utilized." Hester also planned to attend the meeting, as well as others, such as Pat Wo odrick of the hospital-nursing home auxiliary and real estate agent Maxine Posey. In her appearance before the board, Pair planned to bring with her letters from architects noting that the depot was in good shape to be almost a century old, and from state restoration and historic experts, some of which have said a restored depot could contribute greatly to the community. The letters, Pair said, basically "talk about how the depot needs to be preserved, not just for Philadelphia but for the state of Mississippi," and about grants that could be available to help fund a depot restoration. A developer, Gaston Barrett, purchased the depot from the Kansas City Southern Railroad Company last year. The purchase price was not disclosed. The depot would be a good investment for the city, Mayor Rayburn Waddell said Monday. "The only way it can be remodeled with federal grants is if the city, or a government entity, is its owner," he said. "It's probably a good idea to buy it. There have been several depots restored in Mississippi in recent years. I think it would be a good thing for us, and could help in the tourism area." Ward 2 Alderman Roy White said he had not really formulated an opinion about the city purchasing the depot beforehand. "I'll be glad to listen to the presentation," White said, "to see what kind of money we're talking about, not just buying the building, but the cost of renovating it, what if any grants are available and those types of things." An expert on historic sites in the state, Stella Gray Sykes, visited Philadelphia last summer and said the building could be a candidate for the state's 10 most endangered landmarks list. Sykes, director of the Mississippi Heritage Trust, recommended that the depot be submitted for consideration to the Trust, a preservation movement to protect the historical and prehistoric cultural resources of the state. Sykes has issued her continued support for the depot's restoration through a letter to Pair and the city. Others who have issued letters of support for the restoration: Jennifer Baughn, of the state's Department of Archives and History; and Roger Pryor, of Pryor and Morrow, an architectural firm in the Golden Triangle area who performed restoration work on the West Point depot, restored in the early 1990's. The current interest in restoring the depot here can be traced back to 1996, to the efforts of Philadelphia native David Bridges, a professor in the Department of Aerospace Engineering at Mississippi State University. Bridges, a railroad enthusiast, began to stir interest in the repair of the depot by inquiring about its availability from Kansas City Southern officials. The chamber of commerce at that time considered moving into the depot but was concerned about the proximity of the building to the railroad tracks. Sam Kaye, a Columbus architect who works with the state's Main Street Association and examined the depot building here in September, said then that he believes it is in good condition and estimated renovation of the depot would cost around $200,000. The depot was a part of the Gulf, Mobile and Ohio (GM&O) Railroad line and was constructed by the Mobile, Jackson and Kansas City Railroad in 1905. It is the only GM&O depot left standing on the original route, running from Mobile, Ala. to Jackson, Tenn. Many of the depots are still in existence, but have been moved from their original sites. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004c01c1c5cc$a03df5e0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:38:39 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Ashland, WI First phase of Depot restoration nears completion Steve Tomasko The Daily Press With Phase I of the Depot restoration project nearing completion, the move is on to find tenants for the building. Almost as soon as the smoke drifted away after an April 1 2000, fire gutted the building, people have been at work to restore the historic structure. Since last fall, workers from Wayne Nasi Construction have been working putting in new flooring, joists and other structural work. They will finish Phase I with the lifting of the steeple, which should take place in a couple of weeks. Final shingling of the roof will take place in April or May when the weather is warmer. The next phase of the project involves adding plumbing, heating and cooling systems, electrical work and interior finishing. The Depot Restoration Project committee's next goal is to get businesses to move into the building. Former building owners Mark and Val Gutteter donated the Depot building and property to the Ashland Area Development Corporation, a non-profit entity administering the effort to restore the structure as a public/private partnership. Their goal is to have an economically self-sustaining building with paying tenants to provide income for utilities and upkeep. The DRP has held focus groups and other community gatherings to get input on what kinds of businesses/public facilities should be in the restored Depot. When finished, the building will have about 1,500 square feet of rental space in the basement, 3,850 square feet on the first floor, 4,200 square feet on the second floor and another 1,500 on the third floor, according to Dale Kupczyk of AADC. Kevin Stranberg, who's been facilitating the focus groups, said community input in the process was imperative. About 65 people participated in the brainstorming and strategizing exercises, he said. From the discussions, Stranberg said the following prevailing themes emerged: * The Depot needs to be a place that uniquely combines public and private space. It needs to be a gathering place for people of the area as well as tourists. It is understood that it needs to cash flow -- but it also needs to be a focal point for a lot of activity such as presentations, festivals, events, family gatherings, displays. * The Depot not only needs to pay for its utilities and property taxes -- it also needs to have funds in order to preserve the structure for generations to come. It needs an endowment that will insure its viability and its upkeep for many years to come. * A restaurant is needed in the structure. It would bring people into the building, serve as an enhancement of the tourist attraction and bring in cash flow as an anchor tenant. There are a number of suggestions on the type of restaurant to be housed in the Depot. Popular alternatives include: an upscale place similar to The Depot restaurant; a family diner (possibly an ice cream parlor); and/or a snack bar and concession stand. * The Depot needs to serve as a focal point for Ashland, for the downtown and for the lake. It should be used for local festivals, downtown events and any other collaborations to bring Ashland, the downtown and the lake together. * Options to use space for visitors information would be helpful to increase its viability as a destination for tourists. * Embracing history, ecology and ethnicity are important for the Depot atmosphere. Suggestions include Railroaders' Hall of Fame, Native American museum, transportation displays, model train exhibits, Bureau of Indian Affairs offices, interactive shipping and sailing presentations, and partnerships with the Sigurd Olson Institute and Northland College. * A formal review process of potential tenants will not only confirm their financial stability, but create an opportunity to evaluate the tenant's "match" to the vision of the Depot. * Flexible space that can be used for a variety of things could be very helpful in keeping the space viable in the future. This concept may include movable displays, open multi-purpose spaces and adjacent storage rooms. To date, the Depot Restoration Project has raised $557,000 towards their $600,000 goal, which was needed as a match to a $499,000 National Park Service "Save America's Treasures" grant. The project was also helped along with a $1.1 million Wisconsin Department of Transportation grant. Donations needed Tax-deductible donations can be sent to AADC/Depot Restoration Fund, 422 Third Street West, Ashland, WI 54806. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005a01c1c5d5$1ecf69e0$cf42fd3f_@_0019873538> References: <008c01c1c59c$e3d8f0a0$be5cf6d1_@_paul> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:39:22 -0500 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Paul - C&NW didn't have catenary - are you thinking of GN in the Cascades? For GN and MILW to pull down their catenary probably made economic, if not esthetic, sense, given their traffic densities at the time -- the catenary was installed to solve steam locomotive problems (tunnel smoke, lowest efficiency at low lugging mountain speeds) that the diesel also solved, without maintaining all that overhead and non-standard locomotives and engine changes in the middle of nowhere. Especially for the Milwaukee to maintain catenary (that was aging and needed replacement soon) in 2 different isolated districts, with a diesel district between, when they were running 1 or 2 through schedules a day near the end, really wouldn't have made sense. For New Haven under McGinnis to have planned to dieselize through operations was even crazier than most people realize -- if I got the story right, they built the FL-9's and scrapped all those electrics on a study that showed they would save the cost of maintaining all that catenary, but forgot that they still would have to keep the catenary up for the MU commuters, only have less use for it. Given traffic densities, Amtrak has finally done now what New Haven should have done decades ago, extending electrification to Boston. Steve Delibert - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul S. Luchter To: Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:56 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > Was getting rid of the catenary by the Milwaukee Road (and C&NW too?) a good > move or a bad move.. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00b001c1c5df$47b97580$9f4b0e44_@_ri.cox.net> References: <008c01c1c59c$e3d8f0a0$be5cf6d1_@_paul> <005a01c1c5d5$1ecf69e0$cf42fd3f@0019873538> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:52:11 -0500 From: "JIMBEAR" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" You got it exactly right, Steve. In fact after scrapping or storing most of their electrics, they realized they were paying a small fortune in fuel for diesels that were hauling freight under the wires. All they had left were the 10 EP-5 passenger electrics and a few of the EF-3 freight units. The freight units had been stored in the open for several years. Weather and vandalism had taken their toll; it would have cost $200,000 per unit to rebuild them. Luckily, they were able to buy 12 five-year-old GE units from the N&W ( which was ending electric operations over it ex-VGN route) to haul freights from Cedar Hill Yard in New Haven to the Oak Point, Harlem River, and Bay Ridge Yards in NYC. They got all 12, plus spare parts for the bargain basement price of $300,000 ( they cost the VGN $267,000 each in 1957) Jim. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Delibert" To: Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:39 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > Paul - > For New Haven under McGinnis to have planned to dieselize through > operations was even crazier than most people realize -- if I got the story > right, they built the FL-9's and scrapped all those electrics on a study > that showed they would save the cost of maintaining all that catenary, but > forgot that they still would have to keep the catenary up for the MU > commuters, only have less use for it. Given traffic densities, Amtrak has > finally done now what New Haven should have done decades ago, extending > electrification to Boston. > Steve Delibert ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00c901c1c5f8$268e3620$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:50:13 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Grand Canyon News From the Altamont Press Newsline... Grand Canyon News The environmental assessment for a new transit system at Grand Canyon National Park may be on its way out of the federal Office of Management and Budget. GCNP superintendent Joe Alston told members of the Grand Canyon Chamber of Commerce Wednesday that the process may be moving ahead after the publication of a New York Times article on the issue. In the Times story, reporter Blaine Harden describes the park's situation with a train station "that has neither tracks nor trains. The station, part of a $16.6 million Canyon View Information Plaza Orientation/Transit Center, is the last stop on a light-rail transit system that does not exist and is not being built." The Times article goes on to describe overcrowding issues and features the differences between Democrats who embraced light rail and Republicans who stalled it. "After the New York Times story, they're doing some damage control," said Alston, who added that he did not agree with the way the Times story portrayed the situation. "They said it would be out of OMB within 10 days." The Grand Canyon transit plan has been in OMB since July. Alston said a light rail represents the only system that could handle the numbers of people who come to Grand Canyon. Those numbers can reach 25,000-30,000 per days during peak periods. "Those types of numbers make it tough to make a bus system work," Alston said. "All of the alternatives that we will look at will have an alternative bus system to them." -Marc Pearsall ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00d101c1c5f9$8f5e3910$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:00:18 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Great American Station Foundation Names Most Endangered Stations From the GASF... Great American Station Foundation Names Most Endangered Stations The Great American Station Foundation is pleased to announce its 2001 Most Endangered Stations list. The list highlights the difficulties faced in restoring or retaining the role of train stations as vital community transportation centers. This year’s list includes five stations facing threats ranging from the effects of deferred maintenance to a fire-ravaged building slated for destruction. Each of these stations will receive a $1000 cash award to help spur local community efforts to restore and revitalize these important public buildings. This year’s list includes stations include: Tecate, BC (Mexico) Orlando, FL Richmond, IN Painesville, OH Roanoke, VA. “We use the list to spotlight railroad stations each year whose history and function in the community will be lost forever without swift action,” says Hank Dittmar, the foundation’s president. “We hope to stimulate that action by bringing local, regional, and national attention to the plight of these stations.” The program has proven highly effective in energizing local redevelopment activities. Over 50% of the communities listed over the past two years have taken steps to acquire, save, stabilize, or restore these historic landmarks, while three have gone on to receive Station Foundation grant funding. Tecate, BC (Mexico) The Tecate station was a major depot along the 148 mile San Diego and Arizona Railway line connecting El Centro, CA, to San Diego. A 44 mile stretch of this track actually runs through the state of Baja California, Mexico, due to the geographic constraints of the area. This portion of the line, including the Tecate station, reverted to the Mexican government in the 1970s when its owner, Southern Pacific, sold the remainder of the route to San Diego's Transit Board for trolley line right-of-way. In good shape until it was closed by the Mexican government in 1996, the building has since been subject to severe vandalism and neglect. The neighboring Tecate brewery is also beginning to encroach upon the building’s yard, having built a ten-foot concrete wall that significantly affects the station’s setting. Despite this neglect, the station still has excellent potential for renovation, and is the clear choice for a passenger terminal on a proposed Tijuana-Tecate commuter rail service. This would also make it the logical center for interchange with other ground transportation, including bus and taxi. Built in 1919 in the Prairie Style, the Tecate station is eligible for listing on the US National Register of Historic Places, in a special category for cultural resources created abroad. It is also eligible for listing as a BC state monument. The station was nominated to the list by San Diego’s Save our Heritage Organization (SOHO), which has also placed it on it’s own 11 Most Endangered List. SOHO will use their $1000 award in their efforts to establish a bi-national heritage corridor that would include the Tecate station. Orlando, FL Owned by CSX, the Orlando depot is an active Amtrak station that also houses commuter rail, bus, rental cars, and other intermodal services. Designed by architect M.A. Griffith, the Orlando depot is the sole Spanish Mission style station in Florida. It was built in 1926 by the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad to increase and encourage tourism in the area. Today the station is one of Amtrak’s most popular destinations, serving over 275,000 passengers each year. While not facing any real threat of destruction, the busy station is rundown and in need of major renovation. Local community leaders envision a renovated station as a thriving transportation center, better serving rail passengers and adding connections to thruway buses, shuttle services, and connections to cruise ports. The revitalized station would add retail and other mixed uses of the station, creating a bustling transportation center that will spur economic growth in the station area. Keep Orlando Beautiful, Inc. will use the $1000 award to begin development of a master plan for the station, and to create public support for the project. Richmond, IN In it’s heyday, Richmond’s Pennsylvania Railroad Station hosted up to twenty five trains a day. Designed by renowned architect Daniel H. Burnham, the 1902 station is a symbol of Richmond’s early economic and cultural development. Young musicians Louis “Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Jelly Roll Mornton, Bessie Smith, Cole Porter and others stepped off the train here to make some of the earliest jazz recordings in Richmond’s Starr-Gennett Recording Studio. The station is listed on the National Register of Historic Sites and Structures, and has also been placed on the Historic Landmarks Foundation of Indiana’s 10 Most Endangered List. Abandoned since 1972, the Urban Enterprise Association, Richmond, Inc. (UEA) purchased the structure in 1988 to preserve it for future renovation. A new roof on the building helped stop further deterioration, but the exterior terra cotta banding, brick exterior, windows, and the interior had already been heavily damaged. UEA has worked closely with other groups to fund restoration activities and planning for adaptive re-use of the building. Lacking the funding to do a complete restoration project themselves, UEA is offering the building for sale. Potential transportation services in a renovated station include a local trolley between Uptown and new housing in the station area. The station could also be linked to a major hiking/biking trail that runs through the area. UEA will use their $1000 award to help explore adaptive re-use potentials for the station. Painesville, OH As in many communities across America, the local train depot in Painesville was once the architectural jewel of the town. The Richardsonian Romanesque structure was built to serve the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern line in 1893. Long empty, the interior of the building is all but gone. The exterior remains in fairly good shape. The Western Reserve RailRoad Association, (WRRA) owner of the building, has obtained funding enough to replace the slate roof and install a new heating system, and is working closely with local government units and the Lake County Historical Society to try to renovate the building. WRRA nominated the building to the Station Foundation’s list. They have succeeded in obtaining a local historic listing, and plan to apply to both the State and National Historic Registers. WRRA would like the station to see renewed use as a transportation facility. This station has good potential for eventual Amtrak or commuter rail service, local bus service, and a rails to trails stop. WRRA will use the $1000 award that accompanies the listing to build local support for the station’s renewal. Roanoke, VA Roanoke’s Virginian Railway Station, built in 1909, was that railroad’s premier passenger terminal until it closed in 1958 as part of a merger with Norfolk & Western, now Norfolk Southern. The only brick station along the route, it was much larger and more finely detailed than any other station along that line. The unused station, one of the last remaining buildings along the line, was severely damaged by fire in January 2001, and has become a serious liability for Norfolk Southern. Rather than see it torn down, the Roanoke Valley Preservation Foundation (RVPF) and the Roanoke Chapter of the National Railroad Historical Society are working with Norfolk Southern to acquire and preserve the building for renovation. RVPF will use their $1000 award to further its efforts to acquire the building. While the station is not a likely site for future rail service, it is well situated to serve as a shuttle site between downtown and an emerging biotech center. It could also link up with City's greenbelt system. Unless RVFP is able to purchase the fire-damaged station, Norfolk Southern will likely demolish it. The Great American Station Foundation was created in 1996 to revitalize communities through new construction or conversion and restoration of existing rail passenger stations, and the possible conversion of historic non-railroad structures to active station use. The foundation works with railroad stations to improve rail access and intermodal connections as well as stimulate community development. As the organization has grown and evolved, it has set a goal to become the national intermediary organization not only for station revitalization, but also for community revitalization in areas surrounding intercity, commuter and urban rail stations. More information on the foundation, and a brief summary, with pictures, about each endangered station can be found at www.stationfoundation.org. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00d101c1c5f9$8f5e3910$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:18:07 -0500 (EST) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great American Station Foundation Names Most Endangered Stations On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Jim Dent wrote: > >From the GASF... > > Great American Station Foundation Names Most Endangered Stations 8<--- > Orlando, FL > > Owned by CSX, the Orlando depot is an active Amtrak station that also houses > commuter rail, bus, rental cars, and other intermodal services. Designed > by architect M.A. Griffith, the Orlando depot is the sole Spanish Mission > style station in Florida. It was built in 1926 by the Atlantic Coast Line > Railroad to increase and encourage tourism in the area. Today the station > is one of Amtrak’s most popular destinations, serving over 275,000 > passengers each year. > > While not facing any real threat of destruction, the busy station is rundown > and in need of major renovation. Local community leaders envision a > renovated station as a thriving transportation center, better serving rail > passengers and adding connections to thruway buses, shuttle services, and > connections to cruise ports. The revitalized station would add retail and > other mixed uses of the station, creating a bustling transportation center > that will spur economic growth in the station area. > > Keep Orlando Beautiful, Inc. will use the $1000 award to begin development > of a master plan for the station, and to create public support for the > project. - --->8 I think it's great to spotlight stations which need work and to promote the cause, but it seems like that this program has either lost its focus, changed its mission or is now horribly misnamed. I have a problem with Orlando (and occasional others here and there) being named to this list when there is no apparent threat of demolition. Orlando is obviously not endangered, but somewhat neglected. Doesn't listing stations such as the Orlando building under the heading of 'Most Endangered' make it hard from some people to take the program seriously? Could having a station such as Orlando on this 'Most Endangered' list harm other preservation efforts which are facing the imminent destruction of their beloved stations and historical buildings because 'Most Endangered' no longer implies any urgency or action? To me the most endangered are the ones which could be gone in the very near future and need saving NOW. I don't know the politics involved or if there are agendas being served here, but aren't there quite a few stations across the country which are historically signifigant buildings on the verge of demolition which could be rescued from oblivion? I don't want to rain on the GASF's parade, but it just doesn't sit right with me under the current heading. Tecate and Roanoake stations seem to fit the bill a little better, Richmond and Painesville appear to be in somewhat more stable situations for the moment and not in danger of seeing any wrecking balls over the next few years. I'm not sure that using Tecate's $1000 "to establish a bi-national heritage corridor that would include the Tecate station" is a great focus for station money either. I think it's great that they're all getting preservation money, I just don't like the pretense, I think it should be renamed to preserve its integrity. I'm sure this will invite some flames for not being politically correct or some other present day BS concept, but I feel that the current naming is little more than a falsehood. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <007b01c1c61a$ca5b1260$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:58:09 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Dundee, FL Photo link: http://www.polkonline.com/images/111900/dundee2LR.jpg New Sidewalk in Front of Depot Designed to Look Like Rail, Ties Track Without a Train Thursday, March 7, 2002 By JENNA DEOPERE The Ledger DUNDEE -- There's a new railroad track running through Dundee, but there will never be a train on it. The track runs in front of the historic train depot and is made of concrete. It's actually a sidewalk. "We were going to just pour a plain sidewalk and have it painted to look like a railroad track," said Margaret Kampsen, chairwoman of the Dundee Depot Restoration Committee. "That would have meant keeping it up and a lot of work. Now, we don't have to worry about that." After making several trips to the Historic Dundee Depot Museum with his 6-year-old son, Ricky McCormick stopped by last week to ask Kampsen and her husband about the sidewalk they had planned for the front of the depot. A partner in Triad Associates, a speciality construction company, McCormick talked to Kampsen about the project and what he could offer. "I just stopped by to see what they were doing with the sidewalk," McCormick said. "They told me what they wanted and I told them we could pour the sidewalk." McCormick cleared his company's schedule to create three free days to devote to the railroad sidewalk. Five crew members spent three days plotting, framing and pouring the sidewalk -- and they did it all at no cost. Wednesday was the final day of pouring concrete. "When he told me he would do it all I said, 'You're kidding,' " Kampsen said. "It was just out of the blue because we were going to pour the sidewalk the next day." Kampsen said she had contacted Polk Community College about finding an artist to paint a plain sidewalk to look like a railroad track. But she knew that would mean a lot of upkeep down the road to protect it from sun and weather damage. The new sidewalk won't need updating. With cement dyed red to look like the rails and gray cement slabs sitting horizontally to make the ties, the intricate project is one McCormick said most contractors would not attempt. "When you saw how much had to be done, most people would have thrown their hands up in the air and quit," he said. "But now it's like I get to leave my mark. This will be here long after I'm gone." A resident of Lake Hamilton, McCormick said his son likes trains and was excited his father was working on the project. "When I told him Daddy was building a railroad track, he just had to come see it," he said. "He was out here watching us pour it yesterday." Jenna Deopere can be reached at jenna.deopere_@_theledger.com or at 863-299-2613. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:32:28 -0500 From: "jdent1_@_optonline.net" Subject: RE: Re: (rshsdepot) Great American Station Foundation Names Most Endangered Stations Henry, The GASF has changed its mission in the last year or two. But even under its old mission it most likely would have made = similar choices. The GASF has never been, nor professed to be, a historical organization. In my opinion, it's agenda is to spread "seed" = money to towns looking to restore depots for intermodal use. The GASF will not fund a full restoration, rather it gets, = or keeps, the impetus going until other organizations step in. Many times the other organizations are local governments.= I looked at thier website today and did not see a list of the GASF sponsers. But in the past major sponsers included Amt= rak and Greyhound. Its board of directors include former Senator Patrick Moniyhan and Robert Smith, who last month was e= lected chairman of the board of directors of Amtrak. Obviously both companies benefit from what the GASF is doing. So I agree with you that they maybe misnamed and are not very interested in preservation unless the resulting restoration= results in a usuable intermodal facility. Also notice that all the "Most Endangered" received grants - grants that were= applied for. The GASF does not, to my knowledge, do independent research to decide what are the "endangered stations." But at the end of the day, anyone who is involved in station restoration can apply for a GASF grant. Its just another so= urce of funding. Jim Dent Original Message: - ----------------- From: Blue Moon Network Administrator root_@_net.bluemoon.net Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:18:07 -0500 (EST) To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great American Station Foundation Names Most Endangered Stations I think it's great to spotlight stations which need work and to promote the cause, but it seems like that this program has either lost its focus, changed its mission or is now horribly misnamed. I have a problem with Orlando (and occasional others here and there) being named to this list when there is no apparent threat of demolition. Orlando is obviously not endangered, but somewhat neglected. Doesn't listing stations such as the Orlando building under the heading of 'Most Endangered' make it hard from some people to take the program seriously? Could having a station such as Orlando on this 'Most Endangered' list harm other preservation efforts which are facing the imminent destruction of their beloved stations and historical buildings because 'Most Endangered' no longer implies any urgency or action? To me the most endangered are the ones which could be gone in the very near future and need saving NOW. I don't know the politics involved or if there are agendas being served here, but aren't there quite a few stations across the country which are historically signifigant buildings on the verge of demolition which could be rescued from oblivion? I don't want to rain on the GASF's parade, but it just doesn't sit right with me under the current heading. Tecate and Roanoake stations seem to fit the bill a little better, Richmond and Painesville appear to be in somewhat more stable situations for the moment and not in danger of seeing any wrecking balls over the next few years. I'm not sure that using Tecate's $1000 "to establish a bi-national heritage corridor that would include the Tecate station" is a great focus for station money either. I think it's great that they're all getting preservation money, I just don't like the pretense, I think it should be renamed to preserve its integrity. I'm sure this will invite some flames for not being politically correct or some other present day BS concept, but I feel that the current naming is little more than a falsehood. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002601c1c64b$03730140$0aa59840_@_paul> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:43:13 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) "NEW WALDORF GETS OWN RAIL SIDING" NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo NewWaldorfSiding.jpg (image/jpeg, 189505 bytes) OK, I looked up the article about knocking down the power plant. Then in another article I saw that the property to be used for the new Waldorf-Astoria also had a 7 story Railroad YMCA, the "Boiler Room & [,y writing here is illegible, it started with "Bat..."] Works of the NY Central"-that would be the Power Plant that was moved to GCT proper and opened a few months later; there was a 7 story (most original buildings on park after 1912 were seven stories) Adams Express Building (through a merger the American Express before it was demolished; and finally the fourth structure was the New York Central Car Service Department which was to move to Buffalo after it was soon demolished (this is all in 1929) Car Service-if that meant rail cars, well I figured there was working room below, or maybe for the Express Company.... The power plant was supplying electricity and steam to all the buildings on park Avenue and constructed on the huge many block bridge..there were two huge chimneys between the power plant and the Y... But before I had to dig deeper into these buildings I found this article: September 8, 1929 Section XII, page 1, column 8. "NEW WALDORF GETS OWN RAIL SIDING" The special elevator that would take private rail car arrivers "directly to their suites or the lobby" Read about it in this attachment, a jpg made from a scan of a copy of the microfilm copy..... Paul ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004501c1c655$bee6c880$0aa59840_@_paul> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:00:06 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" yes, the GN.....I would disagree that replacing smoke with diesel fumes was one of the solutions... I realize that changing locomotives in the middle of nowhere is maybe just a romantic aesthetic, but at least it was that....there is a lot of silliness in business today, look how the company rate hikes-that absurd $5+ line maintenance charge on my phone bill -all the railroads needed was good lobbyists, charge all their expenses to the government.. Seriously if wee subsidize peanuts, paying twice the world price to John Hancock to not grow the peanuts even, maybe we should privatize Amtrak but only if we allow them a huge bunch of lobbyists, then we could knock down that hat box called Madison Square Garden, rebuild exactly the real and true Penn Station, and get the whole thing subsidized, well, railroads should be a valuable cultural resource just like wicker and helium and peanuts, no... I remember when it was said that you couldn't take a picture in the subway stations because some would be used as bomb shelters and it was national security. This could be a good reason for national subsidies in largesse to the subway system (but I guess not the elevated portions) OK how did I get into this run on pistachio philosophizing, was it trying to cover up my faux pas of saying C&NW when I meant GN... Ok some good and some dumb railroad questions: 1. Which station did GN enter in Chicago? 2. Which line had an arrangement with the C&NW for passengers to get to the west coast? 3. (Maybe a dumb one): Why did CMStP&P have isolated patches of electrification? 4. There are a lot of catenary railroads in Europe, what would the longest rout for one be? 5. Are diesel locos much more in need of much more maintenance than electric power.,, an analysis of costs, was it truly made...it seems at NH the thought pattern had more to do with trends and who knows what powers behind the scenes...why else go diesel as you say when the MUs were going nowhere...I am always amazed that when they finally replaced the GG-1's that the replacements tore down catenary didn't they, and while GG-1's lasted generations, I bet none of those GE (right?) power that replaced the GG-1 still are running, but the same GG-1's probably still would be....I lived in SF when the PCCs from late 1940s were still running in the 80's but they were replacing them with LRVs (had to for the Muni tunnel, and now other PCCs run on Market and even on a new line....I forget what type those LRVs were, I could send matching Market Street pictures of the two...the point is the new LRVs-I don't think they lasted the decade.... It took me three hours today to see my E mail, pardon my running off at the fingers.... Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Steven Delibert To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:38 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" >Paul - > C&NW didn't have catenary - are you thinking of GN in the Cascades? > For GN and MILW to pull down their catenary probably made economic, if >not esthetic, sense, given their traffic densities at the time -- the >catenary was installed to solve steam locomotive problems (tunnel smoke, >lowest efficiency at low lugging mountain speeds) that the diesel also >solved, without maintaining all that overhead and non-standard locomotives >and engine changes in the middle of nowhere. Especially for the Milwaukee >to maintain catenary (that was aging and needed replacement soon) in 2 >different isolated districts, with a diesel district between, when they were >running 1 or 2 through schedules a day near the end, really wouldn't have >made sense. > For New Haven under McGinnis to have planned to dieselize through >operations was even crazier than most people realize -- if I got the story >right, they built the FL-9's and scrapped all those electrics on a study >that showed they would save the cost of maintaining all that catenary, but >forgot that they still would have to keep the catenary up for the MU >commuters, only have less use for it. Given traffic densities, Amtrak has >finally done now what New Haven should have done decades ago, extending >electrification to Boston. > Steve Delibert >----- Original Message ----- >From: Paul S. Luchter >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:56 AM >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > > >> Was getting rid of the catenary by the Milwaukee Road (and C&NW too?) a >good >> move or a bad move.. > > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004a01c1c656$0b3fc420$0aa59840_@_paul> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:02:16 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" I guess this is why this railroad went bottom up, was this typical of other railroads in the 50s? - -----Original Message----- From: JIMBEAR To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Thursday, March 07, 2002 8:53 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" >You got it exactly right, Steve. In fact after scrapping or storing most of their >electrics, they realized they were paying a small fortune in fuel for diesels >that were hauling freight under the wires. All they had left were the 10 EP-5 >passenger electrics and a few of the EF-3 freight units. The freight units had >been stored in the open for several years. Weather and vandalism had taken >their toll; it would have cost $200,000 per unit to rebuild them. Luckily, >they were able to buy 12 five-year-old GE units from the N&W ( which >was ending electric operations over it ex-VGN route) to haul freights from >Cedar Hill Yard in New Haven to the Oak Point, Harlem River, and Bay >Ridge Yards in NYC. They got all 12, plus spare parts for the bargain >basement price of $300,000 ( they cost the VGN $267,000 each in 1957) > >Jim. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steven Delibert" >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:39 AM >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > > >> Paul - >> For New Haven under McGinnis to have planned to dieselize through >> operations was even crazier than most people realize -- if I got the story >> right, they built the FL-9's and scrapped all those electrics on a study >> that showed they would save the cost of maintaining all that catenary, but >> forgot that they still would have to keep the catenary up for the MU >> commuters, only have less use for it. Given traffic densities, Amtrak has >> finally done now what New Haven should have done decades ago, extending >> electrification to Boston. >> Steve Delibert > > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <06b401c1c659$e60a2ca0$fe805043_@_JimDent> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 23:29:55 -0500 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) New York's Pennsylvania Station A new book to be released this month is listed on Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393730786/ref%3Ds%5Fe5/104-9833254-2 285509 ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000901c1c65b$55e243e0$9f4b0e44_@_ri.cox.net> References: <004a01c1c656$0b3fc420$0aa59840_@_paul> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:40:12 -0500 From: "JIMBEAR" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Well, Paul, the New Haven was a special case. Patrick McGinnis was flamboyant (and a bit crooked -- after the NH dumped him, he went to the Boston & Maine and got involved in a kick-back scheme that landed him in federal prison) and given to hair-brained schemes. He certainly didn't help the NH during its decline, but he didn't kill it. He just speeded up the end. The NH went into its final brush with bank- ruptcy in 1961, and was forced on the Penn Central in 1968. The NH's biggest problem was that far more than any other railroad, it relied on passenger, express, and mail business to bring in revenue (in terms of passenger miles, the NH was No. 3 in the US, right behind the NYC, and PRR - amazing when you consider that its main line was only 229 miles from NYC to Boston). The loss of revenue from the decline in passenger traffic, the decline in express business, and the transfer of the US Mail service to the airlines doomed the NH. Even the very best management team would probably not have been able to save it. Jim. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul S. Luchter" To: Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:02 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > I guess this is why this railroad went bottom up, was this typical of other > railroads in the 50s? ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003501c1c65d$ae4e26a0$4e46fd3f_@_0019873538> References: <004a01c1c656$0b3fc420$0aa59840_@_paul> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:49:08 -0500 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Common, if not "typical", in kind if not in degree -- New Yorkers will get it if I say imagine Tom Wolfe writing "Bonfire of the Vanities" about railroads instead of about the city, and he would have come out with McGinnis's New Haven. An overdrawn fun-house mirror, but on a basic level, disturbingly reflective of reality. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul S. Luchter To: Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:02 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > I guess this is why this railroad went bottom up, was this typical of other > railroads in the 50s? > >> right, they built the FL-9's and scrapped all those electrics on a study > >> that showed they would save the cost of maintaining all that catenary, > but > >> forgot that they still would have to keep the catenary up for the MU > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003601c1c65e$944a3040$4e46fd3f_@_0019873538> References: <004501c1c655$bee6c880$0aa59840_@_paul> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:03:19 -0500 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul S. Luchter > yes, the GN.....I would disagree that replacing smoke with diesel fumes was > one of the solutions... Paul, I love steam as much as anybody, and more than most, but read a couple of first-hand accounts by gassed engine crews almost drowning while sheltering in the right-of-way drainage ditch inside tunnels on the 1920's Rat Hole, coming up to be thankful that they'd lived even if they were permanently a little wobbly and all the skin was burned off their ears, and you'll agree that Our Favorite Beautiful Motive Power did have the odd drawback here and there. SP didn't invent cab-forwards because engine crews liked to look out the front; it was because management couldn't afford any more dead enginemen riding behind the smokestack. > > I realize that changing locomotives in the middle of nowhere is maybe just a > romantic aesthetic, but at least it was that....there is a lot of silliness > in business today, look how the company rate hikes-that absurd $5+ line > maintenance charge on my phone bill -all the railroads needed was good > lobbyists, charge all their expenses to the government.. Of course if the railroads or the steam builders had ever had an iota of good sense or understanding of how to swim in they sea they're forced to live in, they would long ago have figured out that steam power could be a Brilliant Employment Project; an undertaking in Preserving the Self-Esteem of Skilled Mechanical Workers Across Mid-America; an exercise in Historic Preservation of the Economies of Division Point Towns Across Middle America, and probably for far less than the annual farm subsidy, have gotten the federal government to pay the ENTIRE cost of locomotive maintenance, water treatment, ash removal, tricky-valve-gear-adjusting, wedge-tightening, shim-adjusting, fire-watching, ash-hauling, and all the other nutty costs that drove steam to death in the face of EMD's brilliant marketing and arguable economic superiority. Instead they spent their time issuing idiot manifestos about Creeping Socialism that no one understood or cared about, and were probably second only to the highway lobby (or maybe they even outdid the highway lobby) in convincing the government and the public that the RR's were obsolete. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003e01c1c661$708b76c0$4e46fd3f_@_0019873538> References: <004501c1c655$bee6c880$0aa59840_@_paul> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:23:49 -0500 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Oh, Paul, you are just giving me a chance to show off. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul S. Luchter > Ok some good and some dumb railroad questions: > 1. Which station did GN enter in Chicago? Via the CB&Q, Union Station. > 2. Which line had an arrangement with the C&NW for passengers to get to the > west coast? UP, until they got royally p*ssed *ff with the Northwestern in about 1956, and switched to the Milwaukee. > > 3. (Maybe a dumb one): Why did CMStP&P have isolated patches of > electrification? Not so dumb. They electrified the tough mountain parts first -- over the Rockies and the Cascades -- which made sense when there were no diesels, electrics really outperformed steam in the mountains, and even 3d-arrival railroads in the back country had decent traffic density. If they hadn't run out of money and luck, and if the country hadn't run out of business for railroads, they would have connected the sections up, had a continuous electric RR running across the northwest, and would have been geniuses. > > 4. There are a lot of catenary railroads in Europe, what would the longest > rout for one be? Yah got me on that one. Seems like the whole continent is pretty well wired up. > > 5. Are diesel locos much more in need of much more maintenance than electric > power.,, Loco for loco, yes -- figure they both have pretty much the same electric traction motors, then the diesels have that whole diesel motor to maintain as well. The cost differences work out in traffic density -- maintenance of all that catenary and other fixed plant on an electrified line is expensive, and if you apply the cost to only a couple of trains a day, it's cheaper to maintain a diesel loco; if you divide the same cost (it doesn't go up nearly directly with the number of trains) to a couple of hundred trains a day, it gets a lot cheaper than maintaining all those individual diesel motors. an analysis of costs, was it truly made...it seems at NH the > thought pattern had more to do with trends and who knows what powers behind > the scenes... As Jim confirmed, the kindest thing that can be said about the NH study is that it was recklessly sloppy -- I don't know if it was sponsored by GM who consciously pulled the wool over someone's eyes (they did do bad tricks from time to time), or whether somebody put some $ in the McGinnis pocket (as Jim pointed out, he ended up going to the slammer for his "conscientious management" of the B&M a few years later), but it was a seriously unfortunate series of events, especially if you think about it helping to cripple (economically and politically both) what should have been the viable alternative to the hugely expensive I-95, air shuttles, Big Dig, and all the other incredible buckets of money we've spent to avoid giving business to railroads. Isn't the Boston Big Dig alone more money than all the subsidies Amtrak has gotten in its entire 30-year history? In fact, isn't the cost OVERRUN on the Big Dig more money than Amtrak has ever gotten? Who's got these numbers? Next time you're in the Times, Paul, look this stuff up if no one has it at their fingertips. It would make nice letters to the editor and to Congress. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00da01c1c668$41fa36a0$0aa59840_@_paul> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:12:38 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" I have given up the letter to the editors. Even when I edit (yeah I can do that sometimes) and send well reasoned and annotated letters about "Why not use the Rockaway Beach branch sitting there unused and still there as a ROW, to the airport, to both airports even, directly connecting to the LIRR terminals, [hell from Laguardia you could send people up to New England via the Hell's Gate, but here you see unedited and run on...anyway they never print these. maybe it embarrasses the reporters who know nothing of the alternatives and possibilities... I still say an external combustion engine surpasses an internal combustion any day...more efficient. I also hope to find a photo of that Waldorf private siding, there are possibly potential articles through 1932 where there are pictures. maybe it will be shown. If anyone can find this newspaper: The Jersey Journal from Jersey City on microfilm--it sometimes has some very interesting rail related items...[this paper just folded this year by the way) How long would a list of Class 1 RRs in US and Canada who used electric traction....Even lower classes. Interurbans excluded or the list gets bloated....Of course this leads to oddities, like the SP counts in Alameda, but not the Keyes System, even though both were pretty similar in their electric commuter lines...and just what is the Chicago, South Shore & South Bend now, is it just a Class One now? Did finding proof of the siding ruin the mystery and seeming mythical nature of the subject? at the Waldorf-Astoria" >Oh, Paul, you are just giving me a chance to show off. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Paul S. Luchter >> Ok some good and some dumb railroad questions: >> 1. Which station did GN enter in Chicago? > >Via the CB&Q, Union Station. > >> 2. Which line had an arrangement with the C&NW for passengers to get to >the >> west coast? > >UP, until they got royally p*ssed *ff with the Northwestern in about 1956, >and switched to the Milwaukee. >> >> 3. (Maybe a dumb one): Why did CMStP&P have isolated patches of >> electrification? >Not so dumb. They electrified the tough mountain parts first -- over the >Rockies and the Cascades -- which made sense when there were no diesels, >electrics really outperformed steam in the mountains, and even 3d-arrival >railroads in the back country had decent traffic density. If they hadn't >run out of money and luck, and if the country hadn't run out of business for >railroads, they would have connected the sections up, had a continuous >electric RR running across the northwest, and would have been geniuses. > >> >> 4. There are a lot of catenary railroads in Europe, what would the longest >> rout for one be? > >Yah got me on that one. Seems like the whole continent is pretty well wired >up. >> >> 5. Are diesel locos much more in need of much more maintenance than >electric >> power.,, >Loco for loco, yes -- figure they both have pretty much the same electric >traction motors, then the diesels have that whole diesel motor to maintain >as well. The cost differences work out in traffic density -- maintenance of >all that catenary and other fixed plant on an electrified line is expensive, >and if you apply the cost to only a couple of trains a day, it's cheaper to >maintain a diesel loco; if you divide the same cost (it doesn't go up nearly >directly with the number of trains) to a couple of hundred trains a day, it >gets a lot cheaper than maintaining all those individual diesel motors. > > an analysis of costs, was it truly made...it seems at NH the >> thought pattern had more to do with trends and who knows what powers >behind >> the scenes... > >As Jim confirmed, the kindest thing that can be said about the NH study is >that it was recklessly sloppy -- I don't know if it was sponsored by GM who >consciously pulled the wool over someone's eyes (they did do bad tricks from >time to time), or whether somebody put some $ in the McGinnis pocket (as Jim >pointed out, he ended up going to the slammer for his >"conscientious management" of the B&M a few years later), but it was a >seriously unfortunate series of events, especially if you think about it >helping to cripple (economically and politically both) what should have been >the viable alternative to the hugely expensive I-95, air shuttles, Big Dig, >and all the other incredible buckets of money we've spent to avoid giving >business to railroads. Isn't the Boston Big Dig alone more money than all >the subsidies Amtrak has gotten in its entire 30-year history? In fact, >isn't the cost OVERRUN on the Big Dig more money than Amtrak has ever >gotten? Who's got these numbers? Next time you're in the Times, Paul, look >this stuff up if no one has it at their fingertips. It would make nice >letters to the editor and to Congress. > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <01d101c1c668$edfc06e0$9f4b0e44_@_ri.cox.net> References: <004a01c1c656$0b3fc420$0aa59840_@_paul> <003501c1c65d$ae4e26a0$4e46fd3f@0019873538> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:17:30 -0500 From: "JIMBEAR" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Actually, Steve, in the history of the New Haven RR, McGinnis was a minor miscreant. Nothing could match the financial razzle-dazzle of the Morgan-Mellen era. Handymen and secretaries were sometimes presidents of multi-million dollar corporations for an afternoon. The financial records of the NH were twice destroyed by mysterious fires. Senator Nelson Aldrich of Rhode Island, the Majority Leader of the US Senate (known to the press as the "General Manager of the US", and future grandfather of Nelson A. Rockefeller) owned trolley lines in and around Providence that were worth about 6 Million dollars, but Morgan bought them for $19 Million (about $400 million today). Hundreds of other less important politicians at the national, state, and local level were bought off in similar, if less extravagant style. After Morgan's death, NH President Charles Mellen was called to testify before Congress about the NH's financial dealings. Under questioning by future Supreme Court Justice Lewis Brandeis, Mellen admitted that there were times when even he didn't know what Morgan was doing. Now there's a "Bonfire Of The Vanities" for you. ;-) Jim. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Delibert" To: Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:49 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > Common, if not "typical", in kind if not in degree -- New Yorkers will get > it if I say imagine Tom Wolfe writing "Bonfire of the Vanities" about > railroads instead of about the city, and he would have come out with > McGinnis's New Haven. An overdrawn fun-house mirror, but on a basic level, > disturbingly reflective of reality. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #308 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <018101c1c697$98fc08a0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 06:51:34 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Elizabethtown, PA Amtrak's woes may hurt proposed plan Rail carrier's problems may slow down plans to fix E'town's station and expand downtown By: Kevin Hensil, Staff Writer - March 07, 2002 Elizabethtown Chronicle Local officials continue to plan a downtown revitalization project featuring a refurbished train station despite the concerns of some residents and questions as to the financial health of one of the key players in the deal. According to Beth Wood Stiner, director of Elizabethtown's Main Street Program, those in charge of the project are moving ahead cautiously. "This is just brainstorming," she said. "[Officials are looking at] how we can maximize the storefront space for the best optimal use. That's just good business planning." The proposed long-term plan involves two separate components, the reopening of the train station on the southern edge of Elizabethtown Borough and the expansion of the downtown corridor along West High Street. That being said, the plan could possibly be derailed by financial troubles at Amtrak, the company which owns the nearly 80-year-old station. In February, a Congressionally-appointed committee concluded some of the passenger rail carrier should be sold to private companies. The federal government, which subsidizes Amtrak, is concerned it is 'losing millions of dollars with an aging rail system. But regardless of the possible setback to Amtrak, Elizabethtown Borough Manager Peter Whipple believes the train station project will continue. "I'm concerned only to the extent that it might delay out project," he said. "Everything I'm reading says that the part of Amtrak that they don't like is the longer distance lines." Whipple added that the Keystone line, which includes Elizabethtown, is among Amtrak's most successful routes. While the train station project has suffered some delays, the Elizabethtown Economic Development Corporations is meeting with a consultant hired to determine if the downtown can, or should, be expanded. If the borough does need more businesses, the EEDC may work with West High Street landlords. Some homes, which are currently rented, may be converted into first-floor businesses with apartments on the upper floors. That possibility has some residents concerned. "That means I'll lose my place to live," said one renter. "There are a lot of people on this street that do rent." Stiner says she understands those concerns. "This is not about booting people out of their homes," she said. "It's about (the) economics of the downtown and community development. We want a peaceful transition if this happens." Some other West High Street residents have mixed reactions to the potential project. "It probably would be a good benefit for the community," Diane Myers said of renovating the train station. But the 19-year resident of West High Street had some concern about the possible downtown expansion. "It depends on how far up they come," she said. "If they only came up a block or two it wouldn't bother me, but if they came up to the creek, I think that would bother me more, because you have too many kids hanging around." In the study currently being taken, downtown expansion would go along West High Street from Market Street to the train station. Anna Ruth Hess has lived near the train station for 70 years. As an active member of the historical society, she would like to see the train station reopened. "I can remember back when it was very active and (I) would like to see that again," she said. However, despite the borough's ongoing work on the project, Amtrak must ultimately approve of any plans dealing directly with its property. "[So far], there's no communication from Amtrak," Whipple said. "The approval process has taken a long time, which is not abnormal for government." Whipple says the delays mean the project will likely not begin until next year at the earliest. Still, optimism runs high. "I think it's a positive and it's going to happen," Borough Council President Doug Pfautz said. "We're not building new roads, and there are more people. We have to go to public transportation. We just have to make it convenient, especially for our residents who work in Harrisburg, Lancaster, or Philadelphia." ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <018701c1c698$cf357400$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 07:00:14 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) St. Joseph, MO Links: http://www.nationalrrmuseum.org/stations/stjoseph.htm http://members.fortunecity.com/wuppie/depot.jpg http://www.judnick.com/images/Missouri_SaintJoseph_Depot_small.jpg (1911 postcard - small image) http://atsfry.com/EasternArchive/Meades/stjoeuni.htm Union Depot provided a destination for culture By ALONZO WESTON alonzow_@_npgco.com St. Joseph News-Press Traveling by train was the most popular mode of transportation in America in the early part of the 20th century. Trains played a prominent part in American history and, for a time, they were a big part of the St. Joseph cultural fabric. The old Union Depot made the area around Sixth Street and Mitchell Avenue the center of that culture. At its pinnacle, anywhere from 50 to 90 passenger trains a day passed through the station. Politicians and celebrities, hoboes and transients all stopped here. The long, red brick building constantly was filled with crowds waiting for the next train, St. Joseph resident Shirley Alcorn said. "It was like another world," she said. "It was kind of a neighborhood attraction." Some three weeks after Jesse James was killed, the Union Passenger Station, as it was officially dubbed, opened for business in April 1882. It was the first of two depots built on the Sixth Street and Mitchell Avenue site. The impressive two-story building quickly became a hub of activity. The city passed an ordinance just to govern the many solicitors who flocked to greet incoming passengers. The depot even had a hotel on its second floor. And horse-drawn taxis, courtesy of the hotel, usually sat in front of the building. But all that activity came to an abrupt halt on the night of Feb. 9, 1895, when the depot burned to the ground. It didn't stay down long, though. It was rebuilt later that year and reopened in January 1896. The new building, also red brick, covered almost two city blocks. It no longer had a hotel inside, but under its long and high-arched ceiling were a dining room, a barbershop and a shoe shine parlor. Mrs. Alcorn remembers the newer building. She was a bright-eyed teen-ager in high school when she went there in 1953. Years later, its enormity reminded her of Paris. "I remember it was so big you couldn't grasp it," she said. "It was like when I was in Paris and the taxi driver dropped me off in front of the Eiffel Tower. All I saw was a building, but the building was one leg of the tower." What Bill Perks, another St. Joseph resident, remembers is the immensity and the grand ambience inside the depot. "It was quite a place for St. Joseph," he said. "It had a first-class restaurant and a long, oak bench seat." Mr. Perks also said celebrities and dignitaries stopped at the depot. "People from Hollywood went through there," he said. Western legend Buffalo Bill Cody came through once. Joe Louis came through several times. The former heavyweight boxing champion slept there in a private car once. More than a few presidents gave speeches at the depot. President Woodrow Wilson stopped there on his 1919 Midwest speaking tour. His visit came just a few months before he suffered a stroke that rendered him an invalid for the rest of his life. William Howard Taft, Dwight Eisenhower and Williams Jennings Bryan also made speech stops at the Union Depot. But Harry Truman is the only president who Clyde Weeks remembers - and for good reason. "I was only in (the Union Depot) one time and that was when President Truman came to town," he said. "It was around 1952, and I was about 14 or 15 years old at the time." The demise of the Union Depot came in the 1950s. The interstates were being built, and automobiles had become the more popular form of transportation. Passenger service at the depot soon came to an end. The landmark building closed and was demolished in 1960. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002e01c1c69e$93c3ce20$d542fd3f_@_0019873538> References: <004a01c1c656$0b3fc420$0aa59840_@_paul> <003501c1c65d$ae4e26a0$4e46fd3f@0019873538> <01d101c1c668$edfc06e0$9f4b0e44@ri.cox.net> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:41:27 -0500 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Yeh, I keep forgetting it was top-to-bottom and first-to-last over there -- they could have put a big slanted "E" in place of that gorgeous script herald, and been closer to the mark. Would you know if I guessed right when I wondered just why they kept buying water-tube 4-8-2's after the first couple were shown conclusively not to work? I figured it was a motive power chief trying to imitate the higher-ups. Did Mellen and Morgan own all those trolley lines that the NH wasted a fortune buying? Steve Delibert - ----- Original Message ----- From: JIMBEAR To: Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 1:17 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > Actually, Steve, in the history of the New Haven RR, McGinnis was > a minor miscreant. Nothing could match the financial razzle-dazzle of > the Morgan-Mellen era. Handymen and secretaries were sometimes > presidents of multi-million dollar corporations for an afternoon. The ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20020308143512.11638.qmail_@_aldus.northnet.org> References: <004501c1c655$bee6c880$0aa59840_@_paul> <003601c1c65e$944a3040$4e46fd3f@0019873538> In-Reply-To: <003601c1c65e$944a3040$4e46fd3f_@_0019873538> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:35:12 GMT From: Sarah S Prince Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > SP didn't invent cab-forwards because engine crews > liked to look out the front; it was because management couldn't afford any > more dead enginemen riding behind the smokestack. Ever since I saw one in the Sacramento museum, I've wondered, why weren't there more cab-forwards? Sarah Prince Keene Valley NY / not necessarily writing from home ssprince_@_northnet.org ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00e101c1c6b3$abc2cac0$9f4b0e44_@_ri.cox.net> References: <010701c1c4cb$3e450380$1f42f6d1_@_paul> <82482485.1015421462@sodor.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:09:52 -0500 From: "JIMBEAR" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Re: "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Joe, FYI, I was looking thru a couple of my reference books here and I found a very good diagram of the GCT lower level that clearly shows the trucking subway and elevators that you mention on your webpage. The diagram is on pages 214 and 215 of "The American Heritage History Of Railroads In America". I'm not good at reading architectural drawings, but it appears that the tracks of the upper level are indicated in outline. It does show a small elevator that would come up to the sidewalk on the 49th St. side of the block and 3 larger freight elevators in the center of the block between 49th and 50th. I don't have a flatbed scanner, so I can't scan it for you, but the book should be relatively easy to find. Jim. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Brennan" To: "Paul S. Luchter" ; "RSHSDepot" Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:31 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Re: "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > No, they would have entered through the door at 101-121 E 49 St. Photo > at the bottom of http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html > > I looked at the Times index for that story and missed it. Middleton's > book mentions this event. > > Joe ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004401c1c6c9$60bb5360$0146fd3f_@_0020223609> References: <004501c1c655$bee6c880$0aa59840_@_paul> <003601c1c65e$944a3040$4e46fd3f@0019873538> <20020308143512.11638.qmail@aldus.northnet.org> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:47:51 -0500 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" A major reason was that it was considered impossible to implement on coal-burning locos, since the firebox was at the cab end, away from the tender. Even the SP had a series of coal-burning 2-8-8-4's with the cabs on the rear. Perhaps a tender-first arrangement could have been worked out, but the steam establishment was never noted for its daring innovation. I don't think any other oil-burning western road had quite the astonishing mileage that SP had in tunnels and snowsheds over the Sierra, so the need was probably less pressing elsewhere. Steve Delibert - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah S Prince" > > Ever since I saw one in the Sacramento museum, I've wondered, why weren't > there more cab-forwards? > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:58:22 -0500 (EST) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: (rshsdepot) GM&O and L&N Tennessee Depots Some tidbits on Tennessee depots from a former GM&O shop employee with whom I correspond frequently. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:51:12 -0500 (EST) From: fernj_@_iswt.com To: root_@_net.bluemoon.net Subject: Depot Henry, Thanks for the info on the Philadelphia, MS GM&O Depot. I am sure I have been by there many times on GM&O trains, but cannot remember what it looked like. The L&N Depot in Jackson, TN is a beautiful yellow brick building and has been acquired by the city of Jackson and turned into a RR Museum. There are a number of coaches parked around the area, but not much in the museum itself except for photographs etc. The Casey Jones home is still in Jackson along with a locomotive similar to the one in which he was killed. Casey is buried in the Catholic Cemetery in Jackson. Jackson was of course a railroad town with the L&N, GM&O and IC Railroads all coming in there. The Jackson Union Station for GM&O and IC has been torn down since forever it seems. It was a large wooden structure and in bad shape and probably unsalvageable, plus it was torn down before the historical signifience of these old buildings was realized. The GM&O station in Union City, TN has been taken over by the Chamber of Commerce and completely renovated. A GM&O caboose sits beside the depot courtesy of the widow of a lawyer to whom it had been presented 25 years ago. Thanks again for the info, Jesse ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008601c1c6e2$98908080$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:48:25 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Grand Central Terminal - New York, NY Link to original article with accompanying photos: http://www.metropolismag.com/html/content_0302/cen/index.html Time Will Tell Metropolis Magazine Just back from a quick tour of London's train stations, the authors discover that the renovators of Grand Central Terminal tried to turn back the clock and lost their sense of time. By Marty Kapell and Lyle Rexer March 2002 Most of us never even thought we liked the clock. It was imposing, gauche, insistent. But no doubt about it, now that it's gone, we miss the clock. The timepiece at issue is the oversize Westclox "Big Ben" that was hung prominently as advertising in Grand Central Terminal for decades. It was wedged between two of the station's massive columns and formed a portal between the main waiting room, now called Vanderbilt Hall, and the station's main concourse. Viewed through the eyes of contemporary preservationists, the clock was worse than crass--it was completely inappropriate. But it has become abundantly clear that the clock belongs to that class of things, like the Studebaker Avanti and the Princess phone, whose true significance is known only once it is gone--whose absence is far more significant than its presence ever was. "Architecture is dream and function," Roland Barthes wrote. And what we miss is the residue of dream, the evidence of yesterday's utopia. It certainly seems ungrateful at this late date to quibble with a renovation that has restored the architectural glory to one of New York's most precious landmarks. The light through the windows, the bridge from Vanderbilt Hall, and the main concourse with its magnificent vistas--the scale and cleanliness of it all--are statements of reverence and optimism for the city. The quibble isn't with Grand Central per se but rather with an attitude toward preservation that leaves no room for the clock or any other anomaly. That mind-set banishes the possibility that disparate (read: tasteless/inappropriate/accu-mulated) elements can actually enrich the experience of a public place. In a recent conversation, Fred Bland--principal of Beyer Blinder Belle, the architectural firm responsible for Grand Central's resurrection--remarked that all that was really done to the station was to "clean it up." Although far more than that was done to improve the building, Grand Central has been purged of its diversity and rendered pure. It is now uniformly tasteful and consistent--in fact, a triumph of good taste. It is so consistent that even its goodness is inconsequential for the lack of any variation. The quote often attributed to Louis Kahn that architecture must have ordinary spaces in order to have good ones, is about the language of architecture--and indeed all language. Meaning arises from a play of differences. Qualities like grandeur and offensiveness are relational; they need each other to be perceived. Grand Central certainly has a variety of contrasting spaces, ranging from its ordinary low-ceilinged passages to its glorious main concourse and waiting rooms, all deliberately orchestrated in a dramatic procession. In their restored state, however, the main concourse and its tributary spaces display a relentless sameness of style that is usually achievable--and desirable--only in a new building. This sameness reduces the significance of the spaces. Of course, Grand Central Terminal is not a new building. It was built in the age of steam and now functions in the digital age. And this is the other aspect of difference that makes a building meaningful--dissonances of time. Architecture needs its yesterdays as well as its todays. Grand Central gave us more: the pathos of todays that had become yesterdays. The crass "Big Ben" contributed to the play of differences in scale, style, and period that endowed Grand Central with its wealth of meanings. The actual Big Ben alarm clock was designed by Henry Dreyfuss in 1939. Perhaps not coincidentally, Dreyfuss was also the designer of choice for the New York Central Railroad, the terminal's owner and builder. He designed the elegant 20th-Century Limited and the streamlined 1938 Hudson locomotives. The clock was a clever advertising choice and probably had more symbolic significance than was intended. The Big Ben alarm clock was itself a surprisingly popular item, and doubtless many thousands of commuters dashing past the giant timepiece every day had been awakened by the bedside version that morning. The out-scaled clock and its supporting columns formed a triumphal arch of commutation. The small and large versions together registered the prospects for making it to the office or back home on time. These clocks bracketed the vision--pre- and postwar--of a suburban utopia, where the mass man of Grand Central could become the individual man, with a human-scale clock all his own. Although the clock manages to provoke nostalgia, surely nobody would lament the disappearance of the hulking Kodak sign, which for years dominated the main concourse from the then- inaccessible east mezzanine. With its flanking pavilions, it blocked the glorious east windows and upset the station's symmetry. Yet its absence also leaves a void. The glowing billboard's designers understood the power of scale, and the backlit images contributed to the real complexity of the station. The sign brought color into the monochromatic, sepia-toned, increasingly soot-encrusted station. It also served as a counterpoint to the anachronism that the station, with its interurban trains, was quickly becoming. Images of trains traveling through mountain passes, by the ocean, looked modern and exciting even as rail travel was already being superseded by the contextless futurism of mass airline travel. Elsewhere in the world less proscriptive attitudes inform the renovation of historically significant structures. In England, with its incredible inventory of nineteenth-century train sheds, a much more liberal view of "appropriateness" governs the reuse of its architectural legacy. It seems as though so few buildings of historical significance have survived in New York, and our experience in renovating them has been until recently so disastrous, that we are afraid to engage them in any substantive way. Our so-called architectural respect is really timid deference: Better to be safe than sorry. Better a theme park of rail travel than a contemporary assertion that is certain to offend someone. In contrast, London's Waterloo, Paddington, and Liverpool Street stations have recently received substantial bold renovations. The historical elements of these inspiring buildings have been painstakingly restored, and the new elements have been rendered in an unapologetically contemporary architectural vocabulary. This approach actually enriches the historic fabric of the original buildings. The old is old, the new is new, and the significations of both are clearer for the contrast. At Grand Central, the old is old and the new is pseudo-old. Both present and past are diminished in favor of a spurious golden age. Paddington Station has seen new life as the terminus of the Heathrow Express, which whisks you from Heathrow Airport to Central London in 15 minutes on high-speed trains. The original station was built between 1850 and 1854 by the great engineer and railroad builder Isambard Kingdom Brunel. The renovation was designed by Nicholas Grimshaw, one of the most pragmatic of British Modernist architects. Separated by more than a century, the languages of the original and the renovation are remarkably similar. Both designs were based on engineering and fine technology, but their expressions and their technologies are radically different. It's this tension that makes the "new" Paddington so successful. Like Grand Central, Paddington had become "cluttered with ad hoc additions" to quote Grimshaw, who saw his role as allowing the public to "appreciate the old from a new standpoint." He has achieved this through the insertion of stridently modern elements within the engineered delight of Brunel's station. One of the major design elements of Grimshaw's renovation is the station's departures and arrivals board. It is a celebration of technology incorporating architecture, industrial design, and digital graphics. It is in stark contrast to the ironwork of the station itself, and yet because of its sleek character it relates to both the station's architectural language and the jetlike design of the trains. At Paddington the train shed is the station, and the waiting trains become an integral part of the architecture. The digital board mediates between these elements while retaining its character and utopian associations. At Grand Central the departures and arrivals board poses as an artifact from the original station, a tasteful picture frame in which a digital sign has somehow been inserted. It has none of the stature of the freestanding ticket office on which it sits. In fact, the simple black electronic sign that it replaced was a sleeker object with greater poignancy. An example of postwar Italian industrial design, it was an explicit attempt to link a fading mode of transportation with the modernity of international air travel. And in contrast with digital silence, the sound of the old board clicking through time and destination changes created an aural environment of urgency and expectation. Great historic buildings--not to mention the people using them--are demeaned by renovations that pretend that time has stood still and that "old-fashioned virtues" and utopian confidence have been preserved in a vacuum. The buildings are deprived of irony, contrast, and the poignancy of their unfulfilled dreams. As Robert Venturi perceived so acutely, they lose the complex significance that is the fate of any building that survives its original era. That fate is something to be celebrated, not denied. Buildings, left to their own devices and the passage of time, create their own richness. In the case of Grand Central, the clock showed that great architecture can be treated with gaudy disrespect and be all the better for the insult. The bad protects us from the relentlessness of the good. And to one degree or another, the bad is inevitable. Trying to keep it out is like trying to escape the Red Death in the Edgar Allan Poe story. The alternative is a good taste that renders one place like any other. Thirtieth Street Station in Philadelphia and Union Station in Washington are examples of the consequence: a nationwide state of suspended architectural animation. This is not to suggest that the clock should be resurrected, or the grime restored to the Sistine ceiling. Once gone it can never be brought back. To do so would be an act of the same pseudo-archaeology that infects all nostalgia-based renovation projects. If we had been lucky enough to still have it, it would be a gift of historic bad taste; to put it back would be history repeating itself as farce. You cannot step in the same river twice. Perhaps all of the inappropriate intrusions had to be swept away, like a reptile shedding its skin, so that a new cycle can start again. We have to wait and see. In the meantime, we miss the clock. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <70.1907cbfb.29baa6e2_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:44:34 EST From: TJRDIESEL_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Question How can I un-subscribe to the e-mail system.........I cannot keep up with the high volume of emails and information. Respectfully, Terry Robinson ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005c01c1c72d$9fb54f80$b84a9a40_@_paul> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:45:24 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Grand Central Terminal - New York, NY The Kodak slide was historic, it as the largest slide in the world, I think they printed the thing whole, though I am probably wrong.... I myself am waiting for them to rip out that hideous building at the north end.... In Long Island City is the Pepsi sign with no Pepsi company, in Jersey City the Colgate sign on the ground. I agree slightly with the ideas in this article....I thought it was wrong when they took out the big Central New jersey signs and the ferry terminal when doing up Liberty State Park in Communipaw...so I guess it is one's taste,,,commerce eventually cluttered up GCT, I am not sure the big clock was superior to the enhanced original interesting space there now...I personally think they should put back the old departure boards myself,,, Or the old NY Central signs that were still in the waiting room in the 70s... There were never any true Interurbans in GCT... I would trade getting intercity high speed trains in GCT for allowing bringing back all that advertising brash stuff! For an example of what I think is ridiculous combination of old and new see the Brooklyn Museum of art where in the deco days they chopped out the grand stairs entrance and put deco elements on the new ground floor entrance....that is now considered bad looking, so a new first floor entrance is being built, a post-modern glass mess that fits the classic architecture of the building not at all...I realize some love these additions to Smithsonian and The Louvre As to the idea of nostalgia....most of the architecture in "those olden days" was nostalgia...Penn Station, Dearborn Station (or should I call it Polk?), the gone side of Chicago Union Station, all the Greek and Roman revival art, many Richardson post offices, most McKim, Mead and White....the campanile at Cal-Berkeley, it was all reflective and copies of buildings in Italy, what was supposed and interpolated from the ruins of the ancient world of Rome and Greece...Stanford was a play on the Mission style, it is a little bit silly to complain about nostalgic restorations when the structures were glorified examples of nostalgia themselves..this is why the glass boxes of Johnson and others, the Seagram Building, the UN, and yes, the Pan Am, too, were hailed as wonderful, because they were truly not nostalgic, not nostalgic for old styles, not nostalgic for making a steel girdered building look like it needed masonry and flying buttresses, arches and all that...the Dakota Hotel needed that stuff, the Waldorf-Astoria didn't....and I do have a weakness for those modern hotels with the Flash Gordon elevators and waterfalls inside... - -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Wagenblast To: RSHS Depot Date: Friday, March 08, 2002 3:51 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Grand Central Terminal - New York, NY Link to original article with accompanying photos: http://www.metropolismag.com/html/content_0302/cen/index.html Time Will Tell Metropolis Magazine Just back from a quick tour of London's train stations, the authors discover that the renovators of Grand Central Terminal tried to turn back the clock and lost their sense of time. By Marty Kapell and Lyle Rexer March 2002 Most of us never even thought we liked the clock. It was imposing, gauche, insistent. But no doubt about it, now that it's gone, we miss the clock. The timepiece at issue is the oversize Westclox "Big Ben" that was hung prominently as advertising in Grand Central Terminal for decades. It was wedged between two of the station's massive columns and formed a portal between the main waiting room, now called Vanderbilt Hall, and the station's main concourse. Viewed through the eyes of contemporary preservationists, the clock was worse than crass--it was completely inappropriate. But it has become abundantly clear that the clock belongs to that class of things, like the Studebaker Avanti and the Princess phone, whose true significance is known only once it is gone--whose absence is far more significant than its presence ever was. "Architecture is dream and function," Roland Barthes wrote. And what we miss is the residue of dream, the evidence of yesterday's utopia. It certainly seems ungrateful at this late date to quibble with a renovation that has restored the architectural glory to one of New York's most precious landmarks. The light through the windows, the bridge from Vanderbilt Hall, and the main concourse with its magnificent vistas--the scale and cleanliness of it all--are statements of reverence and optimism for the city. The quibble isn't with Grand Central per se but rather with an attitude toward preservation that leaves no room for the clock or any other anomaly. That mind-set banishes the possibility that disparate (read: tasteless/inappropriate/accu-mulated) elements can actually enrich the experience of a public place. In a recent conversation, Fred Bland--principal of Beyer Blinder Belle, the architectural firm responsible for Grand Central's resurrection--remarked that all that was really done to the station was to "clean it up." Although far more than that was done to improve the building, Grand Central has been purged of its diversity and rendered pure. It is now uniformly tasteful and consistent--in fact, a triumph of good taste. It is so consistent that even its goodness is inconsequential for the lack of any variation. The quote often attributed to Louis Kahn that architecture must have ordinary spaces in order to have good ones, is about the language of architecture--and indeed all language. Meaning arises from a play of differences. Qualities like grandeur and offensiveness are relational; they need each other to be perceived. Grand Central certainly has a variety of contrasting spaces, ranging from its ordinary low-ceilinged passages to its glorious main concourse and waiting rooms, all deliberately orchestrated in a dramatic procession. In their restored state, however, the main concourse and its tributary spaces display a relentless sameness of style that is usually achievable--and desirable--only in a new building. This sameness reduces the significance of the spaces. Of course, Grand Central Terminal is not a new building. It was built in the age of steam and now functions in the digital age. And this is the other aspect of difference that makes a building meaningful--dissonances of time. Architecture needs its yesterdays as well as its todays. Grand Central gave us more: the pathos of todays that had become yesterdays. The crass "Big Ben" contributed to the play of differences in scale, style, and period that endowed Grand Central with its wealth of meanings. The actual Big Ben alarm clock was designed by Henry Dreyfuss in 1939. Perhaps not coincidentally, Dreyfuss was also the designer of choice for the New York Central Railroad, the terminal's owner and builder. He designed the elegant 20th-Century Limited and the streamlined 1938 Hudson locomotives. The clock was a clever advertising choice and probably had more symbolic significance than was intended. The Big Ben alarm clock was itself a surprisingly popular item, and doubtless many thousands of commuters dashing past the giant timepiece every day had been awakened by the bedside version that morning. The out-scaled clock and its supporting columns formed a triumphal arch of commutation. The small and large versions together registered the prospects for making it to the office or back home on time. These clocks bracketed the vision--pre- and postwar--of a suburban utopia, where the mass man of Grand Central could become the individual man, with a human-scale clock all his own. Although the clock manages to provoke nostalgia, surely nobody would lament the disappearance of the hulking Kodak sign, which for years dominated the main concourse from the then- inaccessible east mezzanine. With its flanking pavilions, it blocked the glorious east windows and upset the station's symmetry. Yet its absence also leaves a void. The glowing billboard's designers understood the power of scale, and the backlit images contributed to the real complexity of the station. The sign brought color into the monochromatic, sepia-toned, increasingly soot-encrusted station. It also served as a counterpoint to the anachronism that the station, with its interurban trains, was quickly becoming. Images of trains traveling through mountain passes, by the ocean, looked modern and exciting even as rail travel was already being superseded by the contextless futurism of mass airline travel. Elsewhere in the world less proscriptive attitudes inform the renovation of historically significant structures. In England, with its incredible inventory of nineteenth-century train sheds, a much more liberal view of "appropriateness" governs the reuse of its architectural legacy. It seems as though so few buildings of historical significance have survived in New York, and our experience in renovating them has been until recently so disastrous, that we are afraid to engage them in any substantive way. Our so-called architectural respect is really timid deference: Better to be safe than sorry. Better a theme park of rail travel than a contemporary assertion that is certain to offend someone. In contrast, London's Waterloo, Paddington, and Liverpool Street stations have recently received substantial bold renovations. The historical elements of these inspiring buildings have been painstakingly restored, and the new elements have been rendered in an unapologetically contemporary architectural vocabulary. This approach actually enriches the historic fabric of the original buildings. The old is old, the new is new, and the significations of both are clearer for the contrast. At Grand Central, the old is old and the new is pseudo-old. Both present and past are diminished in favor of a spurious golden age. Paddington Station has seen new life as the terminus of the Heathrow Express, which whisks you from Heathrow Airport to Central London in 15 minutes on high-speed trains. The original station was built between 1850 and 1854 by the great engineer and railroad builder Isambard Kingdom Brunel. The renovation was designed by Nicholas Grimshaw, one of the most pragmatic of British Modernist architects. Separated by more than a century, the languages of the original and the renovation are remarkably similar. Both designs were based on engineering and fine technology, but their expressions and their technologies are radically different. It's this tension that makes the "new" Paddington so successful. Like Grand Central, Paddington had become "cluttered with ad hoc additions" to quote Grimshaw, who saw his role as allowing the public to "appreciate the old from a new standpoint." He has achieved this through the insertion of stridently modern elements within the engineered delight of Brunel's station. One of the major design elements of Grimshaw's renovation is the station's departures and arrivals board. It is a celebration of technology incorporating architecture, industrial design, and digital graphics. It is in stark contrast to the ironwork of the station itself, and yet because of its sleek character it relates to both the station's architectural language and the jetlike design of the trains. At Paddington the train shed is the station, and the waiting trains become an integral part of the architecture. The digital board mediates between these elements while retaining its character and utopian associations. At Grand Central the departures and arrivals board poses as an artifact from the original station, a tasteful picture frame in which a digital sign has somehow been inserted. It has none of the stature of the freestanding ticket office on which it sits. In fact, the simple black electronic sign that it replaced was a sleeker object with greater poignancy. An example of postwar Italian industrial design, it was an explicit attempt to link a fading mode of transportation with the modernity of international air travel. And in contrast with digital silence, the sound of the old board clicking through time and destination changes created an aural environment of urgency and expectation. Great historic buildings--not to mention the people using them--are demeaned by renovations that pretend that time has stood still and that "old-fashioned virtues" and utopian confidence have been preserved in a vacuum. The buildings are deprived of irony, contrast, and the poignancy of their unfulfilled dreams. As Robert Venturi perceived so acutely, they lose the complex significance that is the fate of any building that survives its original era. That fate is something to be celebrated, not denied. Buildings, left to their own devices and the passage of time, create their own richness. In the case of Grand Central, the clock showed that great architecture can be treated with gaudy disrespect and be all the better for the insult. The bad protects us from the relentlessness of the good. And to one degree or another, the bad is inevitable. Trying to keep it out is like trying to escape the Red Death in the Edgar Allan Poe story. The alternative is a good taste that renders one place like any other. Thirtieth Street Station in Philadelphia and Union Station in Washington are examples of the consequence: a nationwide state of suspended architectural animation. This is not to suggest that the clock should be resurrected, or the grime restored to the Sistine ceiling. Once gone it can never be brought back. To do so would be an act of the same pseudo-archaeology that infects all nostalgia-based renovation projects. If we had been lucky enough to still have it, it would be a gift of historic bad taste; to put it back would be history repeating itself as farce. You cannot step in the same river twice. Perhaps all of the inappropriate intrusions had to be swept away, like a reptile shedding its skin, so that a new cycle can start again. We have to wait and see. In the meantime, we miss the clock. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00a501c1c733$04c407e0$b84a9a40_@_paul> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 01:24:04 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Fw: Fw: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" - -----Original Message----- From: Henry Rosenberg To: Paul S. Luchter Date: Friday, March 08, 2002 11:07 PM Subject: Re: Fw: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" As I see it, two things killed NYNH&HRR. 1) big hurricane - when? '56? did major damage that they never had the capital to repair. 2) the Connecticut Turnpike allowed trucks to rob their freight business. The irony is that the RR had a tremendous surge of economic success from hauling building materials - for the Turnpike. ¶ Oh, and here's the other irony. They were pioneers in piggyback freight - but their system was the Betamax of piggyback and they were too late converting to VHS. Henry At 11:51 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: JIMBEAR >To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >Date: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:41 PM >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > > > >Well, Paul, the New Haven was a special case. Patrick McGinnis was > >flamboyant (and a bit crooked -- after the NH dumped him, he went > >to the Boston & Maine and got involved in a kick-back scheme that > >landed him in federal prison) and given to hair-brained schemes. He > >certainly didn't help the NH during its decline, but he didn't kill it. He > >just speeded up the end. The NH went into its final brush with bank- > >ruptcy in 1961, and was forced on the Penn Central in 1968. The NH's > >biggest problem was that far more than any other railroad, it relied on > >passenger, express, and mail business to bring in revenue (in terms of > >passenger miles, the NH was No. 3 in the US, right behind the NYC, > >and PRR - amazing when you consider that its main line was only 229 > >miles from NYC to Boston). The loss of revenue from the decline in > >passenger traffic, the decline in express business, and the transfer of > >the US Mail service to the airlines doomed the NH. Even the very best > >management team would probably not have been able to save it. > > > >Jim. > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Paul S. Luchter" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:02 PM > >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > > > > > >> I guess this is why this railroad went bottom up, was this typical of >other > >> railroads in the 50s? > > > > > >================================= > >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing > >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #309 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:46:31 From: "Don Dorflinger" Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" Since we're now down to trading opinions, I guess I'm entitled to mine at the risk of incurring the wrath of the "experts": This string is worn out. What relationship it currently has to "railroad depots" (which is, indeed the purpose of this site) is lost to me. Let's move on...PLEEEEZZZEEE! >From: "Paul S. Luchter" >Reply-To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >To: "RSHSDepot" >Subject: Fw: Fw: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" >Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 01:24:04 -0500 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Henry Rosenberg >To: Paul S. Luchter >Date: Friday, March 08, 2002 11:07 PM >Subject: Re: Fw: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > > >As I see it, two things killed NYNH&HRR. 1) big hurricane - when? '56? did >major damage that they never had the capital to repair. 2) the Connecticut >Turnpike allowed trucks to rob their freight business. The irony is that >the RR had a tremendous surge of economic success from hauling building >materials - for the Turnpike. ¶ Oh, and here's the other irony. They were >pioneers in piggyback freight - but their system was the Betamax of >piggyback and they were too late converting to VHS. Henry >At 11:51 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: JIMBEAR > >To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net > >Date: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:41 PM > >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > > > > > > >Well, Paul, the New Haven was a special case. Patrick McGinnis was > > >flamboyant (and a bit crooked -- after the NH dumped him, he went > > >to the Boston & Maine and got involved in a kick-back scheme that > > >landed him in federal prison) and given to hair-brained schemes. He > > >certainly didn't help the NH during its decline, but he didn't kill it. >He > > >just speeded up the end. The NH went into its final brush with bank- > > >ruptcy in 1961, and was forced on the Penn Central in 1968. The NH's > > >biggest problem was that far more than any other railroad, it relied on > > >passenger, express, and mail business to bring in revenue (in terms of > > >passenger miles, the NH was No. 3 in the US, right behind the NYC, > > >and PRR - amazing when you consider that its main line was only 229 > > >miles from NYC to Boston). The loss of revenue from the decline in > > >passenger traffic, the decline in express business, and the transfer of > > >the US Mail service to the airlines doomed the NH. Even the very best > > >management team would probably not have been able to save it. > > > > > >Jim. > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Paul S. Luchter" > > >To: > > >Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:02 PM > > >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "450-Ton Locomotive at the Waldorf-Astoria" > > > > > > > > >> I guess this is why this railroad went bottom up, was this typical of > >other > > >> railroads in the 50s? > > > > > > > > >================================= > > >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing > > >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > > > > > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00e801c1c766$e8911b60$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:35:34 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Rochester, NY New rail depot receives backing Transportation panel's support a first step for the $6 million plan By Rick Armon Democrat and Chronicle (March 8, 2002) - The Genesee Transportation Council voted Thursday to build a $6 million train station to replace the current one on Central Avenue in the city. The plan includes an 8,000-square-foot Amtrak station, high-level platforms, a pedestrian bridge to the far tracks, a secured parking lot and a park. The council, the regional body that governs transportation projects, will seek a government agency as sponsor. The project is years away from becoming reality, said Steve Gleason, council executive director. "We're delighted that the ... proposal was accepted," said William Nojay, chairman of Rochester-Genesee Regional Transportation Authority and a council member. "RGRTA is a natural sponsor for the project." The council has been studying a new station in anticipation of high-speed rail service. The tracks of the current station, built in 1978, are not designed to accommodate those trains. The new station would be built closer to North Clinton Avenue, so construction wouldn't disrupt current rail service. The project was approved based on two assumptions: that the site remains the same and the station isn't consolidated with a proposed bus terminal on Mortimer Street. In an unrelated matter, a dispute resulted after Nojay introduced an amendment to a resolution on $4.5 million in federal money for the city's proposed fast ferry project between Rochester and Toronto. Nojay said it stated that the city must meet federal requirements. Last year, federal money was pulled and Mayor William A. Johnson Jr. "distorted the facts" by blaming the county, Nojay said. City Council President Lois Giess and city Environmental Commissioner Edward Doherty objected that the resolution wasn't shown to Transportation Council members earlier. The resolution was tabled. Johnson said the amendment was part of Nojay's ongoing effort to derail the project. For more, click on the "Fast Forward" icon at www.gtcmpo.org. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:19:52 EST From: BGEEP40_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Site update.... My site has been updated...click on the first link under my name Thanks in advance. Butch Getz The StationMaster My Yahoo! Photos - Depots & Structures ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3a.23392a63.29bba734_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:58:12 EST From: Depot1960_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Fw: Cold Springs Tower The second floor of the tower is the Woodbine tower. The first floor was built on site for the Historic Cold Spring Village. When you're there check out the PRR-style position light signal! ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C8AA76E.9030805_@_ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:23:10 -0800 From: William Church Subject: (rshsdepot) Cab Forwards WOW!!! Some one else from the WESTERN side of the country . . . and she likes cab-forwards too!!!! It's an awsome sight standing next to 4294 at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, I'll be there in June for another visit, too bad she'll never run again under steam. To Sarah and others who may be interested in cab-forwards I would like to recommend two books on the subject, the first is: CAB-FORWARD: The Story of Southern Pacific Articulated Locomotives by Robert J. Church. It covers to entire story of the C-F class with a model by model history from MC-1 thru AC-12 providing photos and drawings of each. While long out of print ( I purchased mine from the author - one of the last Bob - but then we're kind of "shirt tale relatives") it is well worth the effort to track a copy down. The second is: THOSE AMAZING CAB FORWARDS by George H. Harlan. Not as extensive as Bob's book, it does however cover the subject fully and is a good addition to one's library. I'm not sure if it is still available as my copy is from the 4th printing in June of 1991. If both are out of print then I suggest a search of e-bay, alibris or amazon my turn up a copy or a visit to your public library for an interlibrary loan search may turn up a copy to read. Bill Church ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <17e.4c8588a.29bc02a4_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:28:20 EST From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Grand Central Terminal - New York, NY In a message dated 3/9/02 12:45:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, luckyshow_@_mindspring.com writes: > I agree slightly with the ideas in this article I found it an interesting article, but I don't agree with the ideas expressed therein. I think that the restoration of Grand Central Terminal to its former glory is a magnificent job. Removal of inappropriate additions was only proper. I don't miss the clock or the grime, and I disagree with the concept that any restoration that does not incorporate modern themes is "phony." My only two problems with the Grand Central Terminal restoration are (1) the absence of long-distance trains; and (2) the failure to find an appropriate use for the former main waiting room, now designated Vanderbilt Hall, which just sits empty and forlorn most of the time. Otherwise, it's really an inspiring job. Daniel Chazin Teaneck, NJ ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20020310010821.97357.qmail_@_web11802.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3C8AA76E.9030805_@_ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:08:21 -0800 (PST) From: Art Marsh Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Cab Forwards - --- William Church wrote: > WOW!!! Some one else from the WESTERN side of the > country . . . and she > likes cab-forwards too!!!! > > It's an awsome sight standing next to 4294 at the > California State > Railroad Museum in Sacramento, I'll be there in June > for another visit, > too bad she'll never run again under steam. > > To Sarah and others who may be interested in > cab-forwards I would like > to recommend two books on the subject, the first is: > CAB-FORWARD: The > Story of Southern Pacific Articulated Locomotives by > Robert J. Church. Boofinder lists no less than 7 copies available for sale. Price range $70 - $450 > It covers to entire story of the C-F class with a > model by model history > from MC-1 thru AC-12 providing photos and drawings > of each. While long > out of print ( I purchased mine from the author - > one of the last Bob - > but then we're kind of "shirt tale relatives") it is > well worth the > effort to track a copy down. > > The second is: THOSE AMAZING CAB FORWARDS by George > H. Harlan. Not as Again availability of no less than 8 copies with a price range of $75 - $212 > extensive as Bob's book, it does however cover the > subject fully and is > a good addition to one's library. I'm not sure if it > is still available > as my copy is from the 4th printing in June of 1991. > > If both are out of print then I suggest a search of > e-bay, alibris or > amazon my turn up a copy or a visit to your public > library for an > interlibrary loan search may turn up a copy to read. I also suggest using http://www.bookfinder.com Art Marsh Who also thinks it's great hear about Western Depots every once in a while. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00fc01c1c7d1$a343b3e0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:19:33 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Hicksville, NY Links: http://www.nyandw.com/hicksvillemap.htm (includes photo 1909 station and maps) http://www.lihistory.com/spectown/hicksv06.jpg (another view of 1909 station) http://www.lirrhistory.com/jul992/hicks1.JPG (1992) http://www.lirrhistory.com/jul992/hicks2.JPG (platform 1992) http://www.antonnews.com/hicksvilleillustratednews/2002/01/25/news/images/tr ain.jpg (ribboncutting inside new waiting room) From "Along the Track" the Long Island Rail Road Employee Newsletter Hicksville: Close Ties With the LIRR Hicksville and the Long Island Rail Road go way back. Back to 1837, when, just three years after being chartered, the Railroad reached this central Island location. What's more, the town was named after one of the Railroad's founders (and second President) Valentine Hicks. Hicksville, junction point of the Ronkonkoma and Port Jefferson Branches, served as the eastern terminus for the LIRR until 1841, when we continued the eastward push. Now, this highly-developed commerce and employment center is our busiest suburban station, serving more than 6,000 customers a day. And those customers depart from and arrive at a brand new station facility befitting the town's importance to our system. Ground was broken on the new station in early 2000 in a project that involved the demolition of the previous facility, and the construction of new station building complete with improved ticketing facilities, an expanded waiting room, public restrooms, new vendor spaces, new plumbing, HVAC, lighting and alarm systems. In addition, new sidewalks were installed in the station plaza area, and artwork was created for the interior walls of the station. The work was performed by the Excel Group, under the guidance of our Capital Programs Department. Design-wise, the station makes use of extensive glass fronting, offering significant natural light and an "open" feel to the facility. Attractive stainless steel bunging around the support columns and tiled walls complete the look. An official ribbon-cutting for the sparkling new facility took place on January 17, 2002, with remarks from President Bauer, and representatives from town, county and state government on hand for the ceremonies -- including the Hicksville Chamber of Commerce, State Senators Michael Balboni and Carl Marcellino, State Assemblyman Marc Herbst, Supervisor-Town of Oyster Bay John Venditto, and County Legislator Ed Mangano. This is the fourth station to serve Hicksville. The previous Hicksville Station, opened in the early '60s when the track was elevated in a grade crossing elimination project, replaced a 1909-built structure. The 1909 station was a replacement for an 1873-built wood facility. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ January 25, 2002 story from the Hicksville Illustrated News $5 Million Renovation Project Completed at Hicksville Train Station By Andrea Morale A $5 million renovation project has been completed at the Hicksville Train Station, bringing several significant improvements to the local commuting hub. The station, operated by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) Long Island Rail Road (LIRR), received a new, larger station building, as well as exterior improvements. The work, which began in January, 2000, was funded by the MTA LIRR Capital Program. MTA LIRR officials, elected officials, and community leaders marked the completion of the project during a ribbon cutting ceremony held last Thursday, Jan. 17. Assemblyman Marc Herbst (14th District) lauded the MTA LIRR for its commitment to the major improvement project at Hicksville, and for similar work being completed throughout the LIRR system. "It's an honor to be a resident of Hicksville and see this major improvement," Herbst said, adding, "This is a welcome addition to this community." He also thanked the local civic leaders who contributed valuable input into the improvements, including Dave Staton of the Duffy Park Civic Association, who was present at the ceremony. Staton commended the MTA LIRR for its cooperation in implementing the suggestions of local civic leaders. "We think they'll continue to be receptive to our ideas for additional improvements," he said, citing such finishing touches as landscaping and signage. Commenting on the overall outcome of the renovation project, he added, "I think it's a huge improvement for commuters and for the area." The railroad has deep, strong roots in Hicksville. It was brought to town by Valentine Hicks, the second president of LIRR, in 1837 - three years after the railroad was chartered. Local residents relied on it as the eastern terminus until the railroad reached Farmingdale in 1841. The first Hicksville station house, a wood building, was opened in 1873. The railroad was double-tracked to Hicksville in 1890, and the wood station house was replaced by a brick station building in 1909. In 1962, that station was replaced as part of the grade crossing elimination work on the LIRR's Main Line. Since then, the Hicksville station of modern times has evolved into a major local transit center, with more than 6,400 customers from Hicksville and surrounding communities now using the facility during the morning rush hours. Hicksville is indeed the LIRR's busiest station, with thousands of residents relying on it for daily transportation to jobs in New York City and the surrounding metropolitan area. The station is also home to an historic landmark - one of the original Penn Station granite eagles, which is located on the north side of the station building. "I am pleased that work on our busiest station included such extensive improvements to benefit all of our customers," said Kenneth J. Bauer, president of the LIRR. "The larger waiting room and ticket office, along with additional vendor space will make this station especially user-friendly." Said MTA Chairman Peter S. Kalikow, "One of the driving concepts behind the MTA Capital Program is to encourage use of public transportation. This project is a great example of the successful use of funding to improve a major MTA transit hub." The exterior work included demolition of the former station building, and construction of a new, larger building in its place. The building includes new brick work, glass block window treatments, large glass storefront-type entrances, and ADA-compliant doors. Also installed were two new vendor kiosks, a new police kiosk, new curbs and new paving. In addition, seven station staircases are slated to be rebuilt in the spring, and new handrails and railings will be installed. Interior improvements include a new, larger waiting room and ticket office, along with ADA-compliant rest rooms. Also installed were a new air conditioning and heating system, new tiled walls, terrazzo floors, and two new interior retail spaces. A mosaic mural was also designed in the waiting room area, and is expected to be completed soon. Sam Maruca, president of the Hicksville Chamber of Commerce, and Judy Lombardi, executive secretary of the chamber were among those on hand at the ribbon cutting. "It's a welcome addition. It's something that was long overdue," commented Maruca. He added that he is glad to see the LIRR is committed to maintaining the level of services that the community expects at the station. "It's a great addition to Hicksville's downtown revitalization," commented County Legislator Edward Mangano (17th District). "We hope it is a start to more good things to come, in improving the aesthetics of Hicksville." Town of Oyster Bay Supervisor John Venditto thanked the MTA, LIRR and his fellow elected officials for making the improved station a reality. "We in the Town of Oyster Bay, are the beneficiaries of all their hard work," he said, adding, "Hicksville is the heart of the Town of Oyster Bay." ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001a01c1c7d4$8631f660$0fd2d23f_@_paul> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:40:09 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Fw: Cold Springs Tower where is it - -----Original Message----- From: Depot1960_@_aol.com To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Saturday, March 09, 2002 12:59 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Fw: Cold Springs Tower >The second floor of the tower is the Woodbine tower. The first floor was >built on site for the Historic Cold Spring Village. When you're there check >out the PRR-style position light signal! >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #310 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <013201c1c832$8666f960$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:53:05 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Yonkers, NY - Trolley Barn Links: http://www.philipsemanorfriends.org/7.htm (info about trolley barn) http://www.philipsemanorfriends.org/7_1a.htm (contemporary photo) Yonkers council to vote on fate of Trolley Barn By BILL HUGHES THE JOURNAL NEWS (Original publication: March 9, 2002) YONKERS - All around the old Trolley Barn, work is in progress. Across the street to the east, foundations are being poured for a new parking garage and office building. To the west, workers are preparing the sites of a new riverfront park and apartment complex. North of the Trolley Barn, the Metro-North Railroad station is undergoing a $35 million face-lift. A block beyond that, the finishing touches are being put on the new library and school administration building. The glaring exception to all this activity is the Trolley Barn, a red brick behemoth at the end of Main Street, its windows still boarded up with plywood. The September 2001 starting date has been removed from the sign the city placed on the building depicting an artist's vision of the renovated version. On Tuesday night, the City Council is scheduled to vote on the fate of the 98-year-old structure, planned to become upscale live-work lofts for artists. At issue is a resolution sent to the council by Mayor John Spencer nearly two months ago that would award development rights for the building to a new firm at the same time the original developer is saying he is ready to begin construction. The council has had a series of meetings to try to determine whether the original developer, A&F Commercial Builders, has a legitimate claim to the project. The principal partner in the firm, Eric Anderson, said the only reason he was delayed in starting construction was an executive order issued by Spencer last April that effectively mandated the use of union labor on all city projects. The order was issued midway through his financing process and drove up construction costs by an estimated 30 percent, Anderson said, adding that the need to restructure his finances caused the delay. "If we weren't involved with all this political nonsense, we'd already be half-built by now," Anderson said. "Right now, we're ready to start. We have all our financing secured. The only thing preventing us from starting work is approval from the administration." Spencer said Anderson was given plenty of time to start the project and hasn't done so. After first receiving the resolution from Spencer in January, the council initially moved to extend Anderson's preferred-developer designation, but has since backed away from that position. "All I can say right now is that it's gotten very complicated, and we have to meet again and discuss it before we decide what we're going to do," said Council President Vincenza Restiano. Joni Management & Realty Services, a new developer from New Rochelle headed by Joseph Spiezio, also has bought two buildings in Getty Square and has a lease on a third. Spencer said he chose Spiezio for the project because he has a proven track record and because Anderson has been unable to move the Trolley Barn renovation forward. While some members of the council have questioned the motives and the timing of the mayor's decision, saying Anderson seems better poised to begin the project than Spiezio, Spencer insisted he had little to do with the selection process for either firm. "I didn't pick Joe Spiezio, and I didn't pick Eric Anderson, either - my staff did. They do a lot of work researching these things, and after reviewing their work, I agree that this is the best course of action for the city," Spencer said. The current plans for the Trolley Barn call for construction of nearly 40 live-work lofts, with retail space on the ground floor. Until two years ago, plans were in place to convert the building, which has been vacant for more than two decades, into a 14-screen movie theater. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:05:51 -0500 From: "Kenyon Karl" Subject: (rshsdepot) Worcester[MA] to vote on station plan Worcester to vote on station plan By Anthony Flint, Globe Staff, 3/10/2002 WORCESTER - Magnificently restored at a cost of nearly $40 million, Union Station may be the most expensive empty building in New England. [This link may have a very short life span!] http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/069/metro/Worcester_to_vote_on_station_pla nP.shtml ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <130.aa7937c.29bd34ff_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:15:27 EST From: Depot1960_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Fw: Cold Springs Tower At the entrance to Cold Springs Village, along US Route 9, just north of Cape May. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002201c1c891$597a87a0$fe805043_@_JimDent> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:11:53 -0500 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Fw: The most talked about depot in America NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo Cleburne1.jpg (image/jpeg, 109050 bytes) Cleburne2.jpg (image/jpeg, 80377 bytes) Cleburne3.jpg (image/jpeg, 135656 bytes) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordy Bjoraker" Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 12:40 PM Subject: The most talked about depot in America Attached are 3 views of the Texas & Brazos Valley depot in Cleburne, Texas. This depot has been the subject of a "Perils of Pauline" soap opera in a dispute with the city council. Gordy ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:46:34 -0500 From: "Kenyon Karl" Subject: (rshsdepot) FW: New Lawrence [MA] RR Station/Transportation Center - -----Original Message----- From: Paul W Chapman [mailto:milepost10_@_juno.com] Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 5:10 PM Subject: New Lawrence RR Station/Transportation Center Derry's poet Robert Frost to be honored in new Larence RR Station. Will Derry be able to connect to it by 2005 when it opens? Chap Paul W. Chapman, P.E. NHRRA 3 Olesen Road Derry, NH 03038-4847 603-432-1845 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------- Swift to bring $8M for train hub By Shawn Regan Eagle-Tribune Writer LAWRENCE -- The city's new transportation hub will have the best of both worlds -- a connection to Lawrence's rich industrial past and the look of a progressive, 20th-century facility, officials say. On the track side of the station, people arriving in the city to work or visit will see a modern-looking structure that says "Lawrence is a city on the move," said Joseph J. Costanzo, chief administrator for Merrimack Valley Regional Transit Authority. The Lawrence commuter train station, located off Merrimack Street, will be torn down and a new station will be built nearby under an $8 million proposal by the state. In this photo, the Downeaster -- which runs from Boston to Portland, Maine -- hurtles through the station. On the sides facing South Union and Merrimack streets, the transportation center will mirror the historic architecture of the massive Wood and Ayer mills across the street, once the largest cotton and wool mills in the world. Two years since officials began planning for a new train station and parking garage at the corner of South Union and Merrimack streets, officials have secured the full $20 million to build it and are close to a deal with the property owner, said Thomas D. Schiavone, the city's acting chief economic development officer. Gov. Jane M. Swift is scheduled to hand-deliver a check to city officials Tuesday to pay the final $8 million. The city already has about $12.7 million in state and federal money set aside, Schiavone said. The proposed facility includes a five-story parking garage with 900 spaces, terminals for the transit authority's local and regional bus service, shuttle service to and from Logan Airport, a police substation, retail space, interior waiting areas and taxi stands. A small park is planned on the part of the property that faces the street, with exhibits paying homage to local historical figures such as poet Robert Frost. "It's the biggest project I've ever been involved with," said Costanzo, who noted that the facility is about 30 percent designed. "It's going to be the only one of its kind between here and Newburyport. Lawrence is going to be the transportation hub for this end of the valley." The center is earmarked for a vacant lot owned Bert Paley, who owns the Wood Mill and other buildings in the area. Schiavone said Paley seems amenable to selling about 60 percent of the 120,000-square-foot property in exchange for exclusive use of a portion of the parking garage. Construction is expected to last 18 months and start in the spring of 2003, Costanzo said. The facility will replace the existing train station about a half-mile away at the intersection of Merrimack and Parker streets. The center is expected to bolster the city's multifaceted Gateway development. The Gateway project seeks a variety of aesthetic and traffic improvements in the Gateway District, located minutes by foot from the proposed transportation hub. "Commuters coming into the city will be able to get off the train and walk to their office in less than five minutes," Schiavone said. "This is a going to be a huge boon for the city and show people outside the city that Lawrence is moving forward." ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <010e01c1c8b2$12491d80$bd42fd3f_@_0019873538> References: <005c01c1c72d$9fb54f80$b84a9a40_@_paul> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:03:04 -0500 From: "Ulster & Delaware RR HS - President" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Grand Central Terminal - New York, NY The nice irony about the Kodak ad, I always thought, was that it was there for far longer (ca. 1949-1999, 50 years) than it was not there (ca. 1914-1949, 35 years). It was certainly more dissonant with the original architecture than that silly clock, but it also could lay a very serious claim to being an integral part of the history of the building. On a scale of far less significance, but of equal substance, we're debating in our preservation of the 1872 Ulster & Delaware depot at Roxbury, NY, whether to include freight-room graffiti put there by agents and employees of the 1920's, and undisturbed since -- we've already decided the 1875 graffiti stays for sure! Anyone have any thoughts about the issue? Steve Delibert - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul S. Luchter > The Kodak slide was historic, it as the largest slide in the world, I think > they printed the thing whole, though I am probably wrong.... > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005001c1c8b5$07ae8c40$c966f4d1_@_paul> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:27:14 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Grand Central Terminal - New York, NY Of course keep the 1920, in 50 years it will be just as old as the 1875 one is now (on a Möbeus strip!)....I read a lot of 1890s newspapers and when I read 1947 it seems so modern but it isn't.....why shouldn't 1920 be as valuable as 1875?, 82 years is a long long time, many generations ago...just don't let the current carpenters add theirs!....[someday if this E mail is read by someone as nuts to read al E mail as I am to read every newspaper ever printed, will read that and yell, you idiot, we don't have one example of early 21st century graffiti only this Luchter's bizarre E mails...] - -----Original Message----- From: Ulster & Delaware RR HS - President To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:05 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Grand Central Terminal - New York, NY > The nice irony about the Kodak ad, I always thought, was that it was >there for far longer (ca. 1949-1999, 50 years) than it was not there (ca. >1914-1949, 35 years). It was certainly more dissonant with the original >architecture than that silly clock, but it also could lay a very serious >claim to being an integral part of the history of the building. > On a scale of far less significance, but of equal substance, we're >debating in our preservation of the 1872 Ulster & Delaware depot at Roxbury, >NY, whether to include freight-room graffiti put there by agents and >employees of the 1920's, and undisturbed since -- we've already decided the >1875 graffiti stays for sure! > Anyone have any thoughts about the issue? > > Steve Delibert > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Paul S. Luchter > >> The Kodak slide was historic, it as the largest slide in the world, I >think >> they printed the thing whole, though I am probably wrong.... >> > > >================================= >The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing >railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006d01c1c8b7$97a7a000$c966f4d1_@_paul> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:45:27 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Lewis and Valentine Golf Course, Inc. The following is a Long Island Rail Road question for the expertiest expert: it is not necessarily written in the form of a question: "Lewis and Valentine Golf Course, Inc." I was as usual perusing old newspapers this weekend, Nassau Herald on the Peninsula 1935 to 1949....I found out about football teams, semi-pro like the Cedarhurst Wolverines, and the Oceanside Anthonians, Freeport Lions, Inwood Spartans....I saw a photo of a RR car being cleaned on the opening of new car washing facilities in Richmond Hill and Babylon...and I copied this map of Cedarhurst from 1940 that showed the old Rockaway Cut-off, the curved portion into Cedarhurst at the south for one block was still labeled LIRR, but the rest read "Lewis and Valentine Golf Course, Inc. (Formerly LIRR)"...my guess is the northerly parts in the meadows above Cedarhurst were sold in planning for a golf course and it never occurred ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.32.20020310235352.00793b40_@_mail.copper.net> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:53:59 -0500 From: Andy Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Fw: Cold Springs Tower NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo coldspring1.jpg (application/octet-stream, 135041 bytes) coldspring2.jpg (application/octet-stream, 124524 bytes) > The second floor of the tower is the Woodbine tower. The first floor was > built on site for the Historic Cold Spring Village. When you're there check > out the PRR-style position light signal! Here are two pictures of the Cold Spring depot and tower, as seen from trackside looking southward; taken May, 2000. It's almost impossible to miss if you are driving Rt. 9 into/out of Cape May. On a side note, I hear the Dennisville depot is preserved at Historic Smithville (North of Absecon on Rt. 9). I'll see if I can get to it this May when my family is out that way. On another side note, I don't know if I eve mentioned that I found the depot for Mizpah NJ. It had been removed for preservation by a fellow AGES ago. As he got toward the end of his life and hadn't done anything with it more than protect it from vandalism, he passed it on to his brother. The brother died recently, but not before passing it on to another fellow. Last summer, this fellow had just moved it to his front yard. I can't put my hand to my notes right now, but I think he was on Tuckahoe Road, just outside of Buena. - -Andy ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #311 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002101c1c8ee$e3806a20$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:21:28 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Stations of Honor - Memorials Set for Rail Commuters Lost Sept. 11 STATIONS OF HONOR; MEMORIALS SET FOR RAILCOMMUTERS LOST SEPT. 11 The Record (Bergen County, NJ)...03/08/2002 JOHN CICHOWSKI, STAFF WRITER Carrying messages and photographs attached to two dozen white balloons, the widow, children, and grandchildren of Peter Wallace climbed a bluff overlooking Long Island Sound and released their memorial skyward in January, some four months after the family patriarch was killed in the World Trade Center attack. "We watched the balloons go for miles and it seemed as if we were sending them to heaven," recalled Wallace's daughter, Alison Smith of Pequannock. "It was very emotional, but soon we realized how empty it was, because we have no stone, no special memorial, no permanent place to remember Dad. " That is expected to change April 20 when a plaque in the Lincoln Park man's honor is unveiled at the NJ Transit station on Route 202 and a tree is planted outside. The borough is also considering a memorial at the clock tower of a CVS pharmacy being planned on Chapel Hill Road. "The family asked us to do something, and we were glad to accommodate them," Mayor David Baker said. The train station memorial appeals to Smith and her family because her father was Lincoln Park's only resident rail commuter to perish in the Sept. 11 attack. An employee of the Marsh & McLennan insurance brokerage and investment services company, the former Marine moved with his wife, Charlotte, from Queens three years ago, and became a fixture on the Boonton Line each weekday morning and evening. He would have been 67 on Jan. 22, the day his family released balloons in his honor. Memorials to Sept. 11 victims are popping up throughout North Jersey. In Madison, a portion of a beam taken from Ground Zero is being crafted into a memorial in James Park, where it will be installed near a World War I memorial. Mayor John J. Dunne calls this piece of land a "sacred spot. " Three borough residents and three former residents will be honored there; two of them were rail commuters. Along NJ Transit's Morris and Essex Line, a campaign is under way to honor as many commuters as possible from areas served by the line in Sussex, Morris, Someret, Union, and Essex counties. So far, Maplewood, Bernards Township, Bernardsville, Millburn, East Orange, Montclair, and Chatham are participating. These joint memorials are planned for April 11, the seven-month anniversary of the terrorist attacks. The commemorations were organized by a mayors' group led by Maplewood Mayor Victor DeLuca, also a rail commuter. DeLuca won the support of NJ Transit, then took the idea to each mayor along the line. "I took the initiative after commuters suggested it to me," DeLuca said. "In talking with the other mayors, we agreed to raise money to plant trees and put up plaques honoring the victims at each of the train stations in participating towns. " Baker did the same, but Lincoln Park's memorial will coincide with the commemoration of the borough's 80th birthday. The train station memorials along the Boonton and Morris and Essex lines are unusual. Although commemorations are being organized elsewhere, no train station memorial is planned for other rail commuter towns throughout Morris, Bergen, and Passaic counties, according to NJ Transit spokesman Ken Miller. "We endorse the idea and encourage mayors to get behind it," Miller said. He said towns must supply the trees, finance the memorials, and seek formal NJ Transit permission before installing plaques with the names of victims. Mayors in Bergen and Passaic counties said families of commuter victims had not suggested train station memorials to them. "I think the other counties lost many more people than Bergen did," Hackensack Mayor John F. "Jack" Zisa said. "We lost people, of course," said Wayne Mayor Scott Rumana, "but other towns in Essex and Middlesex lost far more. Maybe, when everybody hears about the plans in some of the other commuter station towns, they'll want to do the same thing. I'm sure the mayors will go along with it. " Construction on a $ 150,000 Middlesex County memorial will begin this month for the Freedom Plaza rail station at Woodbridge Avenue and Main Street in Metuchen. Borough officials plan to install a 16-foot-tall clock and replace a stairway that will include plaques listing the names of the dead from several communities on each side -- at least 16 commuters in all. A fund-raising effort is being conducted by the Metuchen-Edison YMCA. Despite the rail station commemoration, Lincoln Park's Baker said he still envisions a clock tower memorial for World Trade Center victims at the CVS pharmacy project at Route 202 and Chapel Hill Road, which is expected to receive approvals soon from the borough's Planning Board. "The builder says this project can be completed quickly -- sometime this year," the mayor said. Charlotte Wallace made it clear that her family did not press the town for action on either memorial. "This is not something we are lobbying for or think we deserve," she said. "But we do think it is important and appropriate to commemorate the memory of my husband somewhere. " "It would be nice," added her daughter, "to have someplace to go to remember dad. " ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #312 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00b501c1c9b2$8bafcb00$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:42:02 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) CSX Railroad relinquishes tunnels to Pennsylvania county CSX Railroad relinquishes tunnels to county BY LINDA METZ THE OBSERVER-REPORTER lmetz_@_observer-reporter.com Washington County has reached an agreement with CSX Railroad to take over two former tunnels in Buffalo and Donegal townships. On Thursday, the county commissioners approved an agreement with CSX to take over the two Civil War-era tunnels, a culvert and 11.49 acres of adjacent land. CSX also will give the county $400,000 that will be used toward the rehabilitation of the tunnels. The county had been looking to obtain the tunnels and preserve them for their historical significance. The tunnels, just off Route 40, would also be essential for building a walking trail in the area. However, CSX had refused to turn over the tunnels unless the county also agreed to take over liability of three bridges in the same area that need to be removed. CSX has offered the county $500,000 in exchange for taking over the tunnels and the bridges, which no longer are used by the railroad. The county was not interested in the bridges because they carried too much liability, said county planning director Lisa Cessna. In the meantime, CSX was facing an order to backfill and seal the tunnels by the state Public Utilities Commission because the tunnels were considered dangerous. The tunnels have been blocked temporarily by steel barricades. Initially, the PUC gave CSX until Sept. 1 to cut a deal with the county. If a deal wasn't worked out, CSX was to seal the tunnels by Dec. 31. The PUC extended its deadline until July, giving CSX and the county more time to reach an agreement. TriLine Associates Inc. of Southpointe, which conducted a feasibility study of the proposed trail project, estimated the cost of repairing the tunnels at $200,000. But Cessna believes that estimate was extremely low. She estimated the tunnel repairs would cost around $500,000. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:16:45 -0500 From: "jdent1_@_optonline.net" Subject: (rshsdepot) FW: La Salle Street Station Can anyone help Ms. Gnas... Original Message: - ----------------- From: Kathryn Gnas Frostypoo_@_msn.com Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:00:16 -0500 To: jdent1_@_optonline.net Subject: La Salle Street Station Hello, My grandfather was a commercial artist for the Chicago North Western Railroad and did murals in several of the Chicago tr= ain stations including the LaSalle Street Station... Do you have any idea who I could contact about what happened to the paintings and furnishings that were in the LaSalle St= reet Station when it was torn down in the 1980's. I am hoping that something was saved and is the hands of collectors. Kathy Gnas - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C8E300D.5080008_@_bellsouth.net> References: Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:42:53 -0500 From: Seth Bramson Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) FW: La Salle Street Station Kathy and all: There were a series of auctions held in the Station, ca. 1980-ish (I was there) at which everything, from the desks to the memorabilia to the pictures on the wall were sold. Hope that helps. jdent1_@_optonline.net wrote: >Can anyone help Ms. Gnas... > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: Kathryn Gnas Frostypoo_@_msn.com >Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:00:16 -0500 >To: jdent1_@_optonline.net >Subject: La Salle Street Station > > >Hello, >My grandfather was a commercial artist for the Chicago North Western Railroad and did murals in several of the Chicago train stations including the LaSalle Street Station... > >Do you have any idea who I could contact about what happened to the paintings and furnishings that were in the LaSalle Street Station when it was torn down in the 1980's. I am hoping that something was saved and is the hands of collectors. > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: References: <3C8AA76E.9030805_@_ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <3C8AA76E.9030805_@_ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:00:07 -0500 From: Sarah Prince Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Cab Forwards >WOW!!! Some one else from the WESTERN side of the country . . . and >she likes cab-forwards too!!!! Stranger than that, I'm from the east (but the place I visit most in the west is Emeryville, fairly convenient for modern & museum train watching, & listening to industrial switching at night). Neither of the recommended books is available in the public-accessible regional catalog of books available for interlibrary loan in northern New York, alas, and I'm not quite curious enough to go farther at the moment. - -- *"*-.,.-*"*."*-.,.-*"*.*"*-.,.-*"*.*"*-.,.-*"*.*"*-.,.-*"* Sarah (S.S.) Prince * ssprince_@_northnet.org * XNS Name: =ssprince in downtown Keene Valley NY usa ~ 1020' altitude ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20020312231530.90452.qmail_@_web11803.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:15:30 -0800 (PST) From: Art Marsh Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Cab Forwards Well, darn it! Ahh well, guess I need to 'fess up myself. I live and work near Emeryville/Oakland and like Midwestern and Mid-south lines and depots. Strange huh! But I do like Cab-forwards and try to get up to Sacramento as much as I can. Take care. Art Fremont, CA - --- Sarah Prince wrote: > >WOW!!! Some one else from the WESTERN side of the > country . . . and > >she likes cab-forwards too!!!! > > Stranger than that, I'm from the east (but the place > I visit most in > the west is Emeryville, fairly convenient for modern > & museum train > watching, & listening to industrial switching at > night). > > Neither of the recommended books is available in the > > public-accessible regional catalog of books > available for > interlibrary loan in northern New York, alas, and > I'm not quite > curious enough to go farther at the moment. > > -- > *"*-.,.-*"*."*-.,.-*"*.*"*-.,.-*"*.*"*-.,.-*"*.*"*-.,.-*"* > Sarah (S.S.) Prince * ssprince_@_northnet.org * XNS > Name: =ssprince > in downtown Keene Valley NY usa ~ 1020' altitude > ================================= > The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a > database of existing > railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #313 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <030801c1cad3$e5914e60$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:13:15 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Redding, CA Links: http://cfapps.redding.com/photo/index.asp?PhotoName=20020312toplo007a.jpg (current photo of depot) http://www.trainweb.org/wendy/redding/13681_08.html (another contemporary photo) http://www.snowcrest.net/marnells/redding.htm (aerial view) Group wants to fix up depot Union Pacific approves first phase of project Kimberly Bolander Record Searchlight March, 12 2002 - 2:52 a.m. Benches, flowers and a fresh coat of paint are planned for Redding's train depot, thanks to a Shasta County group that has railroad owners on board with the idea. And if Union Pacific Railroad pitches in, passengers may even get a restroom, waiting room and vending machine, the railroad's Redding special agent Randy Anderson said Monday. "Union Pacific does try to work with communities in being a good neighbor," Anderson said. The railroad company operates an office at the Yuba Street depot, but that building is not open to passengers awaiting Amtrak's trains. Amtrak's locomotives only come through Redding in the early morning, said Wally Haas, director of the Shasta Cascade Rail Preservation Society. "At 2 o'clock in the morning it can be bitter cold, waiting for the train that's four hours late," Haas said. The 60-some member society wants to repaint the peeling 1920s structure, add planters with trees and flowers, fill in potholes, add outdoor benches and perhaps temporary, portable toilets, Haas said. Small improvements would make a big difference to waiting passengers, Haas said. "Most people will sit in their car, if they've arrived that way," he said. "If they've been dropped off by taxi, all they can do is stand." The Shasta Cascade society has sought to beautify the depot and give passengers a safer place for more than a year, Haas said. In a meeting last March with the city, Shasta County Supervisor Molly Wilson, Amtrak and Union Pacific representatives, society members were told they had to meet a few requirements before changes could be made, he said. Union Pacific has recently given the green light to some exterior sprucing on its property - phase one of the project, Anderson said. The Omaha, Nebraska-based railroad sent two architectural engineers to Redding on Friday to look over the depot and make suggestions for improvements, he said. "That's a milestone, to have a couple of guys sent out from Omaha to look at the place. That was something I never even imagined would happen," Anderson said. Also being considered is a decorative fence. It would run alongside the rail line and keep waiting passengers at a safe distance from approaching trains, he said. The railroad will fix a sagging roof on the depot's building, he added. If the exterior cleanup goes well, Union Pacific will consider phase two: a proposal to upgrade the depot's interior, making it open to waiting passengers, Anderson said. The building's single restroom would need to meet requirements for the disabled and be open to both genders. There is also talk of adding a digital information board, so people waiting for a train know its estimated time of arrival, Anderson said. A security guard for the Redding Area Bus Authority's station, which is set between the tracks and California Street, could lock and unlock the depot's doors at night, Anderson said. However, Union Pacific hasn't committed to any dollar amounts on the interior proposal, he said. "We're not getting into a whole lot of details with phase two, because we want to get over the hurdle with phase one," Anderson said. The city of Redding is probably willing to contribute "a modest amount" financially, said Deputy City Manager Kurt Starman. "It's always been the city's position that it is Union Pacific's and Amtrak's responsibility to keep up the train depot and make it comfortable for passengers," he said. Amtrak officials could not be reached Monday. But the company's representatives have said Amtrak is not willing to help, Anderson said. Instead, he said, they suggested solving the problem by simply not stopping in Redding. He knows of no plan to end train service to Redding, he said. So far, the society has garnered $100 from one Cottonwood contributor to fix up the depot, Haas said with a laugh. The group hopes to solicit the business community and local government further, he said. Plus, he said, there's the society's many skilled volunteers who are willing to help. "I think we picked up on what the community had been talking about for a long time - that there wasn't a decent waiting area for Amtrak passengers," Haas said. "And we said, 'Let's see if we can't do something about it."' Reporter Kimberly Bolander can be reached at 225-8339 or at kbolander_@_redding.com. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #314 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000501c1cb49$f78627a0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:18:26 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Howell, MI Links: http://www.detnews.com/pix/2002/03/13/c05ldepot22.jpg (historic photo of depot) http://www.detnews.com/pix/2002/03/13/c05ldepot1.jpg (site of old depot with photo of old depot being held) http://www.lantrak.org/images/clubhouse2.jpg (depot in its current location as museum) http://www.lantrak.org/images/clubhouse1.jpg (depot in its current location as museum) New Howell station may rise where old depot stood Site could be used for commuter rail line By Karen Bouffard / Special to The Detroit News Proposed Train Station City officials are thinking about building a new train station on the site of the former Pere Marquette depot located east of Pinckney Road. The depot was moved about four years ago to the Livingston Center, a historic village at the Fowlerville Fair Grounds. Local preservationists regret the city didn't hold onto the historic treasure: * The all-wood depot was built in 1872. * It transported Livingston County soldiers in World War I. * It was sold to C & O Railroad in 1947. * Passenger service ended in 1969. * It closed in 1972. HOWELL -- Supporters of the proposed Lansing to Detroit Regional Commuter Rail Project are considering building a Howell train station on the very site where an 1872 Pere Marquette Railroad depot stood before it was moved to Fowlerville about four years ago. The proposed site, east of Pinckney Road and north of the CSX railroad tracks at the bottom of Fleming Street, is now a vacant field. Schroeder's Body Shop owner Kam Schroeder bought the property from the railroad after the depot was moved, and says the city has approached him about leasing the half-acre lot for a train station. A new station could breath new life into the city, attracting increased tourism, creating jobs and providing a new source energy efficient transportation, city officials said. Members of the Howell Historical Society say they find it ironic. "We preservationists think it's hysterical," said Howell Depot Museum Director Judy Burns, a member of the society. "They couldn't wait to get rid of the old depot, and whoops, now they want to build a new one. "There just isn't a good preservation effort in Howell. The old station was sent out to Fowlerville, and it's kind of ironic that now they want to build a new one on the same site." Burns said the former garage-sized wooden structure "could have been restored -- it's just a question of how much money, time and effort you would have had to put into it." The old depot was purchased for $1 by the Livingston Center, a historic village at the Fowlerville Fairgrounds. Doug Burnie, a Fowlerville businessman who was director of the center when the depot was purchased, was thrilled to add the station to the center's collection. It now stands alongside a cobbler's shop, church, barber shop, schoolhouse and other historic building acquired from communities throughout the county. "Most of those buildings would have been destroyed had we not moved them onto the grounds," he said. "The railroad wanted it off their property because it was wasting space. It's a good feeling to know you're saving buildings that were due for demolition." According to Burnie, the Pere Marquette Railroad built its stations from a single set of plans, so each of it's depots throughout the county -- including a Fowlerville station that no longer stands -- were identical. The 30-foot by 50-foot building was made of wood, inside and out, and was built without a foundation. "They took railroad ties, put them on the ground and built it," Burnie said. "It was kind of falling down on one side when we moved it, but we put it on a block foundation and amazingly it was put right back into shape. "The building is an excellent, all-wood structure," he added. "It's pretty close to the original. It has a bay window right inside the building where the controls for the tracks used to be. It also had the communication control board, where they'd have to pull pegs to communicate from station to station along the route. It's like the old telephone systems where the operator would have to get you to the next community to talk." Burnie said the C&O railroad bought the rail line in 1947, and the last passenger train to ride the rails was in 1969. The depot closed in 1972. "All the county's draftees for World War I left from that depot in Howell," he said. "In the archives we have pictures showing hundreds of people crowded around the depot when the inductees were sent off to fight in the war." Schroeder said he thinks the station will encourage tourism in the city, and perhaps bring in more workers. As the owner of a body shop, he's found it difficult to find qualified workers in the area. "They're interested in locating it in Howell so it will funnel people into town," he said. "They don't want it outside. They're redoing the opera house, and there's a lot of things here people would like to see. There's also a lot of things to do here in the summer. "It's hard to find workers in Howell. Most of the houses around here are $180,000 and up -- so it makes it tough for the average Joe to work here. If they can ride the train, it makes it easier for people to get in and out." Howell Downtown Development Authority Director Camille Lievense agrees. She believes the proposed commuter line, with a station in Howell, will boost the city's economy by attracting tourists, new businesses, and the workers they bring. "I think it would be phenomenal for the downtown area," Lievense said. "I see that in the long term, when the opera house and movie theater open, it would help tourism. I can see people hopping on a train and walking downtown to go to the opera house, go to the movie theater, to eat, to shop. "I think you have to be visionary and think of it in 50 years: Where are all these cars going to go? If commuter rails are something that will be utilized in the future, it's time to think about it now. In 50 years it will be too late because all the right-of-ways will be gone" That's small consolation for Burns, who still mourns the loss of a local treasure. A new station will become a part of the city's history, she said, but will never have the significance of a station, such as the Pere Marquette, that existed in the heyday of rail travel. "It's a pity you can't find a spot here for a wonderful 130-year-old depot," she said. "A building loses its context when it's moved out of place." ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:45:15 -0500 (EST) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: (rshsdepot) Port Jervis Depot Museum to lose its home (fwd) Port Jervis, NY depot info from the Times Herald-Record via the erielack list. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:59:46 -0500 From: "TIMOTHY O. STUY" To: "INTERNET:erielack_@_lists.railfan.net" Subject: (erielack) Port Jervis Depot Museum to lose its home March 14, 2002 Railroad museum's free rent won't last By Jessica Gardner Times Herald-Record jgardner_@_th-record.com Port Jervis – The Port Jervis Erie Depot Museum, which houses artifacts from the city's proud railroad past, will have to find a new home in order to make room for a new business in the Erie Depot building on Front Street. Dick McKeeby and Leonard Miglionico, business partners who bought the building in 1993, plan to rent the 970-square-foot space to a medical group within the next few months. "We've been more than generous with them," said McKeeby of the Depot Preservation Society, which runs the museum. "But we think the city will benefit more from a business in that spot than they do from the museum right now." The museum has been housed in the building rent- and utilities-free for the last nine years. That savings adds up to almost $130,000 in contributions to the Society, said McKeeby . The Depot, built in 1892, was saved from demise when the Society bought it in the mid-'80s for $50,000 cash raised through thousands of contributions. When the task of completing renovations became too daunting in 1993, the building was sold to McKeeby and Miglionico for $160,000. They invested an additional $500,000 to complete the building's restoration. The building now houses several shops, the museum (on the first floor) and the city's community development agency, which occupies the entire second floor of the building at a discounted rent, said McKeeby. "Dick and Lenny were courageous enough to take on the building and complete the restoration," said Deg Carroll, past chairman of the Depot Society. "The building was saved and that was our goal. I have no complaints." Jim Browning, chairman for the Society, wasn't so thrilled. "Restoring the building and creating the museum was a labor of love for a lot of people and here it goes down in flames," said Browning. "It's going to mean the loss of a significant viable historical resource." The owners said they have little choice at this point. The tax incentives they've received since buying the building will come to an end next year, meaning expenses on the building will increase, said Miglionico. "If you add that to what we already pay for mortgage and maintenance, it's time for us to bring in more money," he said. The Society's officers will meet today to talk about the next step for the museum. Past and present members of the Society said an agreement was in place that promised the museum 10 percent of the Depot's space, but no one can find that in writing, said Browning. The contract drawn up when the building was sold states the Depot Society agreed to have the museum's artifacts dispersed from the waiting room to locked display cases in the main building and on the walls of the stores. McKeeby said the businesses currently housed there are all for that idea. "We think that will make the artifacts more accessible to more people," said McKeeby. Browning said no way. "Who is going to guarantee security of the items? Some of those things are very valuable," said Browning. "How are people supposed to see the items when the stores are closed?" ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #315 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:45:22 -0500 From: peter.m.stetler_@_us.transport.bombardier.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Rail Tunnels in Pennsylvania I had a computer burp and lost the message re tunnels in Washington County, Pennsylvania. Appreciate someone sending it to me again. Thanks, Pete Stetler ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00C0C9E94081D5119E5200508BB9051DF42E53_@_mail1.itochu.com> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:12:57 -0500 From: James Dent / NYKGN Subject: RE: (rshsdepot) Rail Tunnels in Pennsylvania Peter, Past list messages are always available at the list archive. The list archive is at: http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/lists/wilma.cgi/rshsdepot-digest.archive Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: peter.m.stetler_@_us.transport.bombardier.com > [mailto:peter.m.stetler_@_us.transport.bombardier.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:45 PM > To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: (rshsdepot) Rail Tunnels in Pennsylvania > > > I had a computer burp and lost the message re tunnels in > Washington County, > Pennsylvania. Appreciate someone sending it to me again. > > Thanks, > Pete Stetler > > > ================================= > The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database > of existing > railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:59:47 -0600 From: "Byron Reed" Subject: (rshsdepot) Gallatin Depot -- Missouri or Tennessee Please help me identify the railroad depot pictures I have placed on the following page: http://www.byronreed.com/gallatin_depots.htm I need to find out what state they are from, Missouri or Tennessee. Am hoping that someone on this list will be familiar with them, or be able to direct this request to someone who is. Thank you in advance, BLReed _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: References: Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:16:47 -0600 From: "Kenton & Penni Dickerson" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Gallatin Depot -- Missouri or Tennessee Since the depot pictured is not the one in Gallatin, TN, it must be Gallatin. MO. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Byron Reed" To: Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 4:59 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Gallatin Depot -- Missouri or Tennessee > > > Please help me identify the railroad depot pictures I have placed on the > following page: > > http://www.byronreed.com/gallatin_depots.htm > > I need to find out what state they are from, Missouri or Tennessee. Am > hoping that someone on this list will be familiar with them, or be able to > direct this request to someone who is. > > Thank you in advance, > > BLReed > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > ================================= > The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing > railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #316 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <009201c1cce9$2c6be7c0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:50:36 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Paris, France Link: http://www.paris.org/Gares/Saint.Lazare/ (Web site about station with photos) Fire rips through historic Paris railway station A fire has swept through Saint-Lazare railway station in Paris, injuring five people and gutting part of an historic ticket office known as the Hall of Lost Steps. More than 150 firefighters fought the blaze, which broke out in a technical area and spread through five floors of an adjacent office building, causing serious damage. The fire has been brought under control but train services between Paris and the north-west region of Normandy face disruption. The cause of the fire was not immediately clear. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00a801c1ccec$50679b80$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:13:06 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Frostburg, MD Link: http://www.pecoraengineering.com/images/frostburg.jpg (current photo) Depot as a tourist center? Hiking-biking trail leader approaches commissioners SAM SHAWVER Times-News Staff Writer CUMBERLAND -- While plans to make the Frostburg Depot into a steak and seafood restaurant remain in limbo, the president of the Allegheny Highlands Trail Board suggested that the facility be renovated into a visitors center, museum and rest area for hikers and bikers who will be stopping in Frostburg. "When the trail goes in, we'll need to have a visitors center at the depot," John Sayler, trail board president and owner of Frostburg Shops at the Depot told the Allegany County Commissioners on Thursday. A 21-mile section of the Allegheny Highlands Trail is scheduled to be completed through Allegany County by early 2004, with a spur line off the main trail, called the New Hope Trail Head, leading into Frostburg. The Pennsylvania end of the Allegheny Highlands Trail, which will eventually run from Pittsburgh to Washington, is nearly completed. East of Cumberland the trail will follow the C&O Canal towpath. "The present trail plan calls for rest rooms to be built behind the turntable near the Frostburg tunnel at a cost of around $100,000," said Sayler. "But that money could be cut down by expanding the rest rooms that are already in the depot, and making the front two rooms of the depot into a tourist center." He recommended renovating the depot's dining room and kitchen area into a railroad and mining museum, and reserving two passenger cars at the facility for tour groups from the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad. "The two train cars will seat about 130 people and they have individual air conditioning and heat," Sayler said, adding that the two cars could also be made available to the public for special events. He noted that the depot would be the first thing trail travelers will see when they stop in Frostburg. "If you put this in now, you won't have to worry about what to do with the d epot, and you would be out of the restaurant business," said Sayler. Earlier this year the county received a proposal from two Frostburg businessmen who wanted to operate a steak and seafood restaurant in the old depot. But some fine print in a memorandum of understanding between the county and several state agencies prevented establishment of a restaurant in the depot that would compete with other Frostburg businesses. County Administrator Vance Ishler said he has sent letters to the Maryland State Highway Administration, Maryland Department of the Environment, Maryland Department of Natural Resources and Maryland Historical Trust, requesting that the restrictive wording be removed from the memorandum of understanding. "But we're not saying that a restaurant would go in the depot," he said. "It wasn't the commission's idea to put a restaurant there," said Commissioner Jim Stakem. "We're just looking at all the options." Ishler said there has been some concern about building rest rooms near the Frostburg tunnel entrance where they would also be located near the railroad tracks. "They would be more aesthetically functional located inside the depot," he added. "I think it's a good plan, but we need to bring it before the Destination Allegany group and let them decide," said Dale Lewis, president of the county commission. Destination Allegany is an umbrella organization responsible for marketing Allegany County tourism and the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad. The county is in the process of hiring a director for the agency. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <413CACCE0349D3118C300004AC38683402E080CD_@_msg1.utoledo.edu> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:53:22 -0500 From: MCamp_@_utnet.utoledo.edu Subject: (rshsdepot) FW: Disappearing railroad stations in northeastern Montana Please help by responding to kahampton_@_state.mt.us Thanks Mark J. Camp > ---------- > From: Hampton, Kate > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 12:59 PM > To: 'mcamp_@_geology.utoledo.edu' > Subject: Disappearing railroad stations in northeastern Montana > > Dear Railroad Station HIstorical Society, > > My name is Kate Hampton, and I am the National Register Program > Coordinator > at the Montana SHPO. Recently I was contacted by a gentleman in > Homestead > Montana inquiring about the eligibilty status of the Burlington > Northern rr > station there. It has long been abandoned, and the BN is planning to > tear > the building down due to the liability. Although the station was > found to > be eligible for the National Register, because no federal or state > money or > permits are required for the demolition, we have no say in what the BN > chooses to do with the building. The man in Homestead is interested > in > saving the building - possibly moving it and using it as an antique > store. > When we called the BN, they said that they were willing to give away > the > building. They also let us know that they planned to demolish several > other > abandoned stations across the "High Line" ( the northern tier of > Montana). > > I was hoping that your organization may have some information > regarding ways > to preserve these buildings - including any grant information or > articles on > how to use the station space as a museum or community center. I would > like > to share some of this information with the communites that will be > affected > by the BN's decision. > > Any help you can provide would be much appreciated. > > Thanks for your time, > Cordially, > > Kate Hampton > Montana State HIstoric Preservation Office > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20020316111301.00751fe4_@_127.0.0.1> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:13:01 -0500 From: Dan Onorevole Subject: (rshsdepot) NK Tower, Newark, NJ Just as a note, the ex-Lehigh Valley NK Tower in Newark was demolished this past week. This move comes as the interlocking here recently has been made a remote interlocking. Dan ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006d01c1cd52$4fcafd00$5915fe3f_@_default> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:17:13 -0500 From: "Bernard Rudberg" Subject: (rshsdepot) Hopewell Depot Restoration Newsletter NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?-photo DpNws032.jpg (application/octet-stream, 25129 bytes) The attachment is a photo of Hopewell Depot c. 1905 Depot in it's original location. Photo from the collection of the East Fishkill Historical Society. HOPEWELL DEPOT RESTORATION Next Meeting Wed, Apr. 3 7:30 PM at the East Fishkill Community Center The Community Center is located off Rte. 82 in the center of Hopewell Junction between the RR overpass and the Rte.376 traffic light across from McHoul's funeral home. The main subject of the meeting: Possible acquisition of land near the depot Your depot Restoration board members urge you to come to the meeting and we will explain the details and open the floor for discussion. This meeting will also be our annual election of officers. Jerry Carey is still filling both the VP slot and the treasurer job. Can you help out ********************************************* Opportunity to Acquire Land One of the central questions surrounding the Hopewell Depot has been: Can it be restored in the current location or will we have to move it? A move would cost money and effort, and could have an adverse affect on future historic status and possible grant applications. We would like to keep it where it is but there is not much room and the land under it belongs to Dutchess County. In addition there have been several proposals for development in the area of the depot, including road improvements and a large housing development planned for the area spanning the former rail line between Fishkill Road and Route 376. Now we have an opportunity to acquire land near the depot for parking etc. We have had an offer on a parcel of land which would serve very well. It could also serve as a parking area for the planned Dutchess County Rail Trail. Ownership of land would have a positive affect on future fund raising and grant applications. The board has been in discussions concerning our options, which will be explained at the meeting . We need the support of all the members to take advantage of this offer. **************************************************** Depot Restoration Questions What is the location of the proposed road improvements ? Will it impact the depot location ? Will it cross land owned by Dutchess County and/or Metro North ? Engineering studies ? Is anybody working on plans ? Time frame ? **************************************************** Our depot restoration effort has come to a major decision point. Our organization by-laws require a membership majority vote for approval of any real estate transactions. We need the support of every member in choosing the best action plan. Whatever course we choose will require long term involvement and hard work to accomplish our goal. Many towns across the country have recognized the significance of their railroad past and are restoring their railroad stations. Hopewell Junction is rich in railroad history but much of it is in danger of being lost forever. We must preserve as much as possible for future generations. Come to the meeting and bring your friends along too. **************************************************** New Book Coming in October Your newsletter editor has been working on a book for the past four years. It will be a history of the railroads that built the tracks through Hopewell Junction and Dutchess County. Our depot was built by the Dutchess & Columbia Railroad in 1873. The following year, the railroad went bankrupt but it was reformed into the Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut Railroad in 1877. This included the Clove Branch Railroad which served the iron ore mine at Sylvan Lake and the iron furnace in Clove Valley. The new book will be a close-up look at these railroads and the people who ran them. A few years ago the headquarters building of the railroad in Beacon was being renovated. Workers found the record books and donated them to the Beacon Historical Society. These books are a detailed record of railroad activities from 1879 to 1904. They are a window into every day life on the railroads in the 1800s. The new book is being published by Purple Mountain Press in Fleischmanns NY and the finished version should be available about October of this year. I will keep you posted about progress. I will also bring a copy of the manuscript to the April 3rd meeting for anybody who wants a preview. **************************************************** Hopewell's Lost Rail Line A rail line into Hopewell Junction was abandoned in the 1890s and was lost to history. In the early 1890s the Dutchess County Railroad was building the line from Poughkeepsie to Hopewell Junction. This line later became the well known Maybrook line which today is the Dutchess County utility corridor. Materials to construct the line were shipped to Hopewell Junction on Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut Railroad trains. In 1891 the Hopewell rail yard and sidings were clogged with carloads of steel rails and wooden ties. The ND&C RR needed the yard and sidings for other business so they sent an ultimatum to the DC RR. The DC RR was forced to build a temporary rail line just to handle the construction materials. When the Maybrook line construction into Hopewell Junction was completed in the spring of 1892, the temporary line was removed and the property sold. For more than 100 year the location of that temporary line was lost to history. In recent years several people have searched for clues but the old roadbed was not found. With the discovery of the ND&C RR record books a few years ago, there were more clues. Your newsletter editor renewed the search and found the abandoned line. In the search I used US Geological Survey maps, aerial photographs from 1935 to 1995, antique railroad blueprints of the Maybrook line and a hand-held Global Positioning Satellite receiver. The GPS receiver can determine your location and altitude anywhere on the surface of the earth with an accuracy of plus or minus 50 feet. After a number of hikes through the woods and trails around Lake Walton, I found the old roadbed.. If you have driven along Fishkill Road parallel to the Beacon rail line you may have noticed a hump just west of Terra Nova Drive. The construction line connected with the tracks which go to Fishkill and Beacon then crossed Fishkill Road at that hump. It ran behind the houses on the west side of Terra Nova Drive then northward through a swampy area. Farther north, it passed through the backyards of houses on Vicki Lane and connected with the Maybrook line about 300 yards from Lake Walton. I also took along my metal detector to look for any left over railroad parts. So far I have not found any rails or spikes but there is ample evidence of the barbed wire fencing along the sides. So the mystery of the lost rail line has been solved and another bit of Hopewell history has been preserved. This story will be part of a chapter on the Dutchess County Railroad in my upcoming book, 25 Years on the ND&C RR. *************************************************** Sharing History Do you know of any photos of Hopewell History ? If you have or know someone who has photos to share with the members, send a note or call me, Bernie Rudberg, at 221-9330.. I have facilities to scan and print photos without any damage to the originals. I can also do minor repairs of cracks or marks on the scanned prints. If you have photos let me know and I will pick them up and return them after scanning. We would love to see any old pictures you might have hidden away in a family album. **************************************************** Do You Have E-Mail ? With the expansion of our mailing list, the cost of each newsletter has gone up. Currently each newsletter mailing costs about $50. We feel that this money could be put to better use on the depot. Therefore we will be distributing an E-Mail version of the newsletter which costs essentially $0 to send out. In addition, an E-Mail version will reach the members sooner than a standard post mailing. Our E-Mail list now contains over 75 names while the snail mail list still has about 90 names. Future newsletters will be sent via E-Mail whenever possible. If you would like to get your newsletter via E-Mail you can write a short note to the editor: Bernard Rudberg 7 Marion Ave. Wappingers Falls, NY 12590-6017 Or better yet, you can reply via E-Mail to Bernie_Rudberg_@_prodigy.net **************************************************** MEMBERSHIP DUES Individuals $10.00 Families $18.00 Seniors/Students $ 5.00 If you get your newsletter via E-Mail, your renewal is due one year from the last time you paid. If you get the newsletter via snail mail, take a look at the address on your newsletter envelope. The date after your name is the last time your membership was renewed. If the date is more than a year ago it is time to renew. Send to the treasurer, Jerry Carey at: Hopewell Depot Restoration P O Box 1044 Hopewell Junction, NY, 12533-1044 **************************************************** CURRENT OFFICERS President. Bernie Rudberg VP and Treas. Jerry Carey Secretary Jackie Prusak Newsletter Editor Bernie Rudberg Bernie Rudberg 7 Marion Ave., Wappingers Falls, NY, 12590-6017 phone 221-9330 or E-Mail Bernie_Rudberg_@_prodigy.net Jerry Carey 27 Tamarack Dr., Hopewell Junction, NY, 12533-6432 phone 897-2145 or E-Mail jcarey_mba_@_idsi.net or JC101694_@_cs.com ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #317 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000a01c1cdb9$74743060$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:41:33 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Anniston, AL Photo link: http://www.homestead.com/StagmiesALRailpics/files/AMTRAK814.jpg (Amtrak train in station) Anniston council lobbies for train station in nation's capital. By Nathan Solheim Star Staff Writer 03-17-2002 Anniston City Council members went to Washington last weekend for the National League of Municipalities meeting and spent part of their time talking trains. Several council members met with Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Mobile, and told him of their plans to renovate Anniston's Fourth Street train station. "(We) just encouraged his support of continued funding for Amtrak," said Mayor Chip Howell. "We reminded him of the grants we've already received and if he hears of any new grants, please keep us in mind." While the Amtrak funding debate continues on Capitol Hill, Anniston is in the early stages of renovating the Fourth Street train station. Council members wanted to talk over their grant statuses and appropriations requests with Alabama's congressional delegation in Washington. The station, once completed, will be a multi-modal transportation center with local bus service, Greyhound bus service, taxi service and Amtrak service. Council members have more than $1 million in grants from various sources to spend on the renovation. Councilman John Norton missed the council's meeting with Sessions because he had to catch the train back to Anniston. Norton instead is talking with staffers from the office of Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Tuscaloosa. Norton and the council are seeking a $540,000 grant from the Federal Transportation Administration. But first, it must be appropriated in the upcoming federal budget cycle. "It did not get awarded this last cycle and the reason for that is this process is more political than it is anything else," Norton said. "The question is not the viability of the grant application, the question is whether funding has been made available for the project. In other words, no matter what the merits are, if there's no appropriation, it won't be approved." Shelby is the ranking member of the Senate Appropriations committee's transportation subcommittee. His support is crucial to the city receiving an appropriation. But Shelby has long been hawkish on Amtrak. He stated last week that further subsidies to Amtrak would be throwing good money after bad. "The goal ought to be a national transportation system that includes highways, airports and rail," Shelby said. "But the notion of a stand-alone national passenger rail system for America is outdated and inefficient." Shelby said rail only can work between two major metropolitan areas that are not more than 300 miles apart, and incremental commuter rail operations such as the rail service that extends outward from Chicago through its suburbs and to Milwaukee. Anniston could fit into both of Shelby's models, due to its location between Birmingham and Atlanta, which is seen as a potential rapid rail corridor. Howell said he will seek an audience with Shelby to explain Anniston's needs. "It is one mode of the multi-modal concept, and I believe the traveling public is looking for alternatives since Sept. 11," Howell said. "Amtrak traffic has increased. If we can market Amtrak in a better perspective and give them a better facility, then we will all benefit from it." City leaders hope the renovation will spearhead a revitalization of the Zion Hill area, which could help the area keep its Amtrak service and justify more grants in the future. "From a policy point of view, the revitalization is critically important because it will affect Amtrak," Norton said. "In the very short-term, we will be competing to keep Amtrak as a viable program in the Southeast. And that is going to be an uphill struggle." Norton said of three Amtrak stations in Alabama, "we're the only city undertaking a revitalization of the facilities." It's important to do that for the future, he said. "If we're going to go to high-speed rail, we need to be proactive, to be sure it comes through Anniston." About Nathan Solheim Minnesota native Nathan Solheim is a University of Georgia graduate. He covers the city of Anniston for The Anniston Star. Contact Nathan Solheim nsolheim_@_annistonstar.com ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #318 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006701c1ce6e$8419eae0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:17:39 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Denver, CO read online at: http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2002/03/18/story3.html Train station ready to take on bigger role Erin Johansen and Cathy Proctor Denver Business Journal Denver Union Station, the once-bustling railway station where 80 trains a day passed through carrying thousands of travelers, is on the verge of a new life as the hub of a metro- and region-wide transportation network. The new owners of the station last week were wrapping up negotiations with a team led by real estate company Jones Lang LaSalle to spend two years creating a master plan for the old station and surrounding 18.5 acres of land. A committee was expected to recommend the team to the Regional Transportation District's board of directors on March 13. The board is slated to vote on the contract March 19. RTD, the city, the state transportation department and the Denver Regional Council of Governments banded together last year to buy the old station for $49.7 million from three private owners. The vision for the station itself and the land surrounding it includes light rail trains, heavy commuter rail trains, Amtrak, local and regional buses, the mall shuttle and bike and taxi cab zones. But developers also are eyeing the adjacent property for hotel, office and retail projects. "The question we have to ask is what do we do with it?" said Cal Marsella, RTD's general manager. "Transportation needs will drive the development, but what do you do with the rest of the land?" The master planning process should help answer that question -- along with where and when the pieces should be built. The team that nets the master planning project has two years to talk to many people about the station's future, including surrounding neighborhoods, the city, RTD, downtown and area businesses, and the railway freight companies whose tracks are west of the station. The team also will look at environmental issues in the old industrial area and work with the city on zoning issues. "Do this right, bring this back and we'll have brought life back to the Central Platte Valley," said Jennifer Moulton, director of planning and development for the city of Denver. "It will solidify downtown, make a front door to Denver," she said. Marsella said the master plan must have three elements: that the station meets transportation needs; that development possibilities be optimized; and that there is a coherent business development plan. The team negotiating last week for the master planning effort included many international, national and local players who have experience on similar projects in Denver and nationwide. WHO THE PLAYERS ARE Here's a rundown of the major and minor players included on the Union Station team in negotiations: Jones Lang LaSalle, a company that brings years of real estate experience ranging from the management of large development projects to the sale and management of commercial office buildings. The company opened its Denver office in 1973. Suzanne Oldham, a vice president with Jones Lang LaSalle's project and development services department, would oversee that company's part of the process if the contract is successfully negotiated. "Jones Lang LaSalle brings a strong real estate perspective," Moulton said. On the transportation side, Jones Lang LaSalle was involved in the redevelopment of Grand Central Station in New York City and Union Station in Washington, D.C. The company also has worked on several airport projects worldwide. Jones Lang LaSalle's international headquarters are in London; its national headquarters are in Chicago. Locally, the company employs about 120 people. Oldham said her company chose the team carefully, making sure that many of the players were local. "One of our philosophies was that all of our leads should be local," Oldham said. "We also wanted teams with international and national experience on transportation projects." Jones Lang LaSalle also looked for companies they'd worked with before. CRL Associates Inc. will get the word out about the project and coordinate all public involvement. CRL has worked on many high-profile campaigns locally and statewide, including the "No on Amendment 21" effort in 2000. CRL's Maria Garcia Berry will lead the community outreach effort. Beyer Blinder Belle Architects & Planners LLP is a New York City firm founded 35 years ago. It carries a wealth of transit station experience including working with Jones Lang LaSalle on Grand Central Station. Beyer Blinder Belle had been eyeing Denver Union Station for some time, waiting for a request for proposals and talking about the project with Jones Lang LaSalle, said Douglas McKean, a partner, architect and landscape architect with the company. "The firm was founded on the principle of making cities better. We look at the inherent value of things already built," McKean said. "We'd rather breathe new life into something. It's in our nature and we've been doing it for all our 35 years." Denver Union Station offers a perfect mix of renewing the old and adding the new, he said. Civitas Inc., a Denver-based urban design, planning and landscape architecture company, has worked on big infrastructure projects including the Speer Boulevard tunnel under Broadway and Lincoln Street, as well as serving as the lead site designer for Six Flags Elitch Gardens in the Central Platte Valley. The company will focus on "the big picture," master planning piece. The company was drawn to the potential that Denver Union Station holds, said Eric Anderson, a principal with the company. "That building has been underutilized since I've known it. The opportunity is amazing; this will be the main multimodal station. The potential for downtown is unlimited," Anderson said. Continuum Partners LLC will focus on the development side of the master plan. The station project "absolutely fits our target zone," said Will Fleissig, a director and co-founder of the company. The company's experience in developing mixed-use projects will help the entire site financially, he said. Continuum's projects include 16 Market Square, a mixed-use building in LoDo. The building includes condos, retail and office space. Continuum is also heading up the massive redevelopment of Villa Italia mall in Lakewood. "How do I get the most value from the 18 acres and do it while protecting the historic train station? How that development occurs will go a long way toward paying for the transit station that everybody wants," Fleissig said. The transportation side of the team includes Parsons Brinckerhoff, Arup, and TranSystems Corp., three engineering and transportation companies with experience from across the nation and around the world. Parsons Brinckerhoff was founded in 1885 with its inaugural project being New York City's first subway system. The company's work around Colorado includes E-470, Denver International Airport and on-call engineering contracts with the city of Denver, RTD and the Colorado Department of Transportation. Nationally and internationally, the company has worked with transportation systems including passenger rail, freight rail, buses and car traffic. "This was a natural for us," John Valsecchi, assistant vice president and Denver operations manager, said of the station project. "We also consider this a landmark project in Denver." If negotiations prove successful, Parsons Brinckerhoff would be leading the engineering and environmental arms of the master planning process, Valsecchi said. Arup, a branch of London-based Arup Group with 6,500 employees, has worked on transportation terminals around the world, including in the U.S. the new Terminal 4 at John F. Kennedy Airport and Penn Station in New York City and the redevelopment of the TransBay bus station in San Francisco. Denver Union Station offers the company "a chance to do more than come up with a transit terminal, but a gateway to the city," said principal Andrew Wisdom. During the master planning process, the company would be involved in designing the terminal buildings west of the historic station to a point where RTD could build them, Wisdom said. TranSystems Corp., based in Kansas City with an office in Denver, offers experience in working with railway systems, according to Gary Johnson, a senior associate and the company's lead for the station project. The company also does highway design and works on deep water ports. Locally, they've worked on highway interchanges and done design and consulting work for CDOT, including studying options for alleviating the clogged Interstate 70 path to the ski areas. Should the entire team get the contract, TranSystems would be involved in analyzing how to get commuter, freight and Amtrak trains into and out of the station area safely, Johnson said. "Trains are a different animal than what we're used to; they're sensitive to grade and curves," he said. The company also works on what kind of maintenance facilities are needed to support the operation. WHO ELSE IS INVOLVED According to Oldham, other team members include: Akin, Gump, Strauss, Haer & Feld LLP, a law firm, will handle environmental, zoning and legal issues. Economic & Planning Systems will handle economics and real estate consulting. Pinyon Environmental Engineering Resources Inc. will work on environmental issues. Preservation Partnership, a Denver architectural firm, will focus on historic preservation. Goodson & Associates Inc. will provide geotechnical engineering expertise. Goodbee & Associates will work on environmental assessment issues. Lund Partnership Inc., based in Lakewood, will provide surveying support. HC Peck & Associates will work on land and right-of-way issues. Pyramid Printing will provide graphics support for preliminary engineering and design phase. Smiley & Co. will offer organizational development services. John Phillips Printing will provide graphic support for the public involvement process. Paying for the transit network and station redevelopment will be key. RTD and the city had a budget of $3.2 million to pay for the master planning portion, but there's not much money squirreled away for the network of light and commuter rail systems intended to intersect at Denver Union Station. The new Central Platte Valley line, running from the Auraria campus to the station, opens April 5 and the 16th Street Mall shuttle buses already are turning around on land behind the station. But RTD only expects enough money to pay for the construction of one more light rail line any time soon -- and mayors and county commissioners around the metro area are clamoring for transit improvements. RTD's solution: a sales tax increase approved by voters that would raise $4.4 billion to build the entire network in 10 years. The increase would raise sales taxes within the transit agency's district from 0.6 percent to 0.1 percent -- or a dime for every $10 worth of goods bought. Two bills in the state Legislature would allow RTD to put the measure on the ballot. One would restrict RTD to a one-time effort this fall, while the other would allow RTD to ask voters for a tax increase as needed. But the station is the linchpin of the overall mass transit network, and it's safe in public hands, Marsella said. "There's so many pieces coming together," he said. "We have the property, that's so important. We're not racing the clock against a private development. "Is the cup half-empty or is the cup half-full? I'd say it's half-full." ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006d01c1cd52$4fcafd00$5915fe3f_@_default> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:56:18 -0500 (EST) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Hopewell Depot Restoration Newsletter The photo is at http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo The header was a bit strange as it wasn't addressed directly To: the list so the photo extractor didn't pick up the list name. I moved the photo into place by hand. Henry On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Bernard Rudberg wrote: > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. > To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. > > http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?-photo > > DpNws032.jpg (application/octet-stream, 25129 bytes) > > The attachment is a photo of Hopewell Depot c. 1905 > Depot in it's original location. > Photo from the collection of the > East Fishkill Historical Society. > > HOPEWELL DEPOT RESTORATION > Next Meeting Wed, Apr. 3 > 7:30 PM at the East Fishkill > Community Center > The Community Center is located off Rte. 82 in the center of > Hopewell Junction between the RR overpass and the Rte.376 > traffic light across from McHoul's funeral home. > The main subject of the meeting: > Possible acquisition of land near the depot > > Your depot Restoration board members urge you to > come to the meeting and we will explain the details > and open the floor for discussion. > This meeting will also be our annual election of officers. Jerry > Carey is still filling both the VP slot and the treasurer job. Can > you help out > ********************************************* > Opportunity to Acquire Land > > One of the central questions surrounding the Hopewell Depot has > been: Can it be restored in the current location or will we have to > move it? A move would cost money and effort, and could have > an adverse affect on future historic status and possible grant > applications. We would like to keep it where it is but there is not > much room and the land under it belongs to Dutchess County. > In addition there have been several proposals for development in > the area of the depot, including road improvements and a large > housing development planned for the area spanning the former > rail line between Fishkill Road and Route 376. > > Now we have an opportunity to acquire land near the depot for > parking etc. We have had an offer on a parcel of land which > would serve very well. It could also serve as a parking area for > the planned Dutchess County Rail Trail. > > Ownership of land would have a positive affect on future fund > raising and grant applications. The board has been in discussions > concerning our options, which will be explained at the meeting . > We need the support of all the members to take advantage of this > offer. > **************************************************** > Depot Restoration Questions > > What is the location of the proposed road improvements ? > Will it impact the depot location ? > Will it cross land owned by Dutchess County and/or > Metro North ? > Engineering studies ? > Is anybody working on plans ? > Time frame ? > **************************************************** > Our depot restoration effort has come to a major decision point. > Our organization by-laws require a membership majority vote for > approval of any real estate transactions. We need the support of > every member in choosing the best action plan. > > Whatever course we choose will require long term involvement > and hard work to accomplish our goal. Many towns across the > country have recognized the significance of their railroad past and > are restoring their railroad stations. > Hopewell Junction is rich in railroad history but much of it is > in danger of being lost forever. We must preserve as much > as possible for future generations. > Come to the meeting and bring your friends along too. > > **************************************************** > New Book Coming in October > Your newsletter editor has been working on a book for the past > four years. It will be a history of the railroads that built the tracks > through Hopewell Junction and Dutchess County. Our depot was > built by the Dutchess & Columbia Railroad in 1873. The > following year, the railroad went bankrupt but it was reformed > into the Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut Railroad in 1877. > This included the Clove Branch Railroad which served the iron > ore mine at Sylvan Lake and the iron furnace in Clove Valley. > The new book will be a close-up look at these railroads and the > people who ran them. > A few years ago the headquarters building of the railroad in > Beacon was being renovated. Workers found the record books > and donated them to the Beacon Historical Society. These books > are a detailed record of railroad activities from 1879 to 1904. > They are a window into every day life on the railroads in the > 1800s. > > The new book is being published by Purple Mountain Press in > Fleischmanns NY and the finished version should be available > about October of this year. I will keep you posted about > progress. I will also bring a copy of the manuscript to the April > 3rd meeting for anybody who wants a preview. > > **************************************************** > Hopewell's Lost Rail Line > A rail line into Hopewell Junction was abandoned in the 1890s > and was lost to history. In the early 1890s the Dutchess County > Railroad was building the line from Poughkeepsie to Hopewell > Junction. This line later became the well known Maybrook line > which today is the Dutchess County utility corridor. Materials to > construct the line were shipped to Hopewell Junction on > Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut Railroad trains. In 1891 the > Hopewell rail yard and sidings were clogged with carloads of > steel rails and wooden ties. The ND&C RR needed the yard and > sidings for other business so they sent an ultimatum to the DC > RR. The DC RR was forced to build a temporary rail line just to > handle the construction materials. > > When the Maybrook line construction into Hopewell Junction > was completed in the spring of 1892, the temporary line was > removed and the property sold. For more than 100 year the > location of that temporary line was lost to history. > In recent years several people have searched for clues but the old > roadbed was not found. With the discovery of the ND&C RR > record books a few years ago, there were more clues. Your > newsletter editor renewed the search and found the abandoned > line. > > In the search I used US Geological Survey maps, aerial > photographs from 1935 to 1995, antique railroad blueprints of the > Maybrook line and a hand-held Global Positioning Satellite > receiver. The GPS receiver can determine your location and > altitude anywhere on the surface of the earth with an accuracy of > plus or minus 50 feet. After a number of hikes through the > woods and trails around Lake Walton, I found the old roadbed.. > > If you have driven along Fishkill Road parallel to the Beacon rail > line you may have noticed a hump just west of Terra Nova Drive. > The construction line connected with the tracks which go to > Fishkill and Beacon then crossed Fishkill Road at that hump. It > ran behind the houses on the west side of Terra Nova Drive then > northward through a swampy area. Farther north, it passed > through the backyards of houses on Vicki Lane and connected > with the Maybrook line about 300 yards from Lake Walton. > > I also took along my metal detector to look for any left over > railroad parts. So far I have not found any rails or spikes but there > is ample evidence of the barbed wire fencing along the sides. So > the mystery of the lost rail line has been solved and another bit of > Hopewell history has been preserved. This story will be part of a > chapter on the Dutchess County Railroad in my upcoming > book, 25 Years on the ND&C RR. > > *************************************************** > Sharing History > Do you know of any photos of Hopewell History ? If you have > or know someone who has photos to share with the members, > send a note or call me, Bernie Rudberg, at 221-9330.. I have > facilities to scan and print photos without any damage to the > originals. I can also do minor repairs of cracks or marks on the > scanned prints. If you have photos let me know and I will pick > them up and return them after scanning. We would love to see > any old pictures you might have hidden away in a family album. > > **************************************************** > Do You Have E-Mail ? > With the expansion of our mailing list, the cost of each > newsletter has gone up. Currently each newsletter mailing costs > about $50. We feel that this money could be put to better use on > the depot. Therefore we will be distributing an E-Mail version of > the newsletter which costs essentially $0 to send out. In > addition, an E-Mail version will reach the members sooner than a > standard post mailing. Our E-Mail list now contains over 75 > names while the snail mail list still has about 90 names. Future > newsletters will be sent via E-Mail whenever possible. > > If you would like to get your newsletter via E-Mail you can > write a short note to the editor: > Bernard Rudberg > 7 Marion Ave. > Wappingers Falls, NY > 12590-6017 > Or better yet, you can reply via E-Mail to > > Bernie_Rudberg_@_prodigy.net > > **************************************************** > MEMBERSHIP DUES > Individuals $10.00 > Families $18.00 > Seniors/Students $ 5.00 > If you get your newsletter via E-Mail, your renewal is due one > year from the last time you paid. If you get the newsletter via > snail mail, take a look at the address on your newsletter envelope. > The date after your name is the last time your membership was > renewed. If the date is more than a year ago it is time to renew. > Send to the treasurer, Jerry Carey at: Hopewell Depot > Restoration > P O Box 1044 > Hopewell Junction, NY, 12533-1044 > > > **************************************************** > CURRENT OFFICERS > President. Bernie Rudberg > VP and Treas. Jerry Carey > Secretary Jackie Prusak > Newsletter Editor Bernie Rudberg > > Bernie Rudberg 7 Marion Ave., Wappingers Falls, NY, > 12590-6017 phone 221-9330 or > E-Mail Bernie_Rudberg_@_prodigy.net > > Jerry Carey 27 Tamarack Dr., Hopewell Junction, NY, > 12533-6432 phone 897-2145 or > E-Mail jcarey_mba_@_idsi.net or > JC101694_@_cs.com > > ================================= > The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing > railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > > J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006701c1ce6e$8419eae0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:21:32 -0500 (EST) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Denver, CO On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Bernie Wagenblast wrote: > read online at: > http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2002/03/18/story3.html > > Train station ready to take on bigger role > > Erin Johansen and Cathy Proctor Denver Business Journal > > Denver Union Station, the once-bustling railway station where 80 trains a > day passed through carrying thousands of travelers, is on the verge of a new > life as the hub of a metro- and region-wide transportation network. 8<--- Just a quick note, according to DPM in a 1958 TRAINS article DUS saw around 200 trains a day 1915-1916. He said that DUS in 1945 was one of his all time favorite train watching spots. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00C0C9E94081D5119E5200508BB9051DF42E5E_@_mail1.itochu.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:17:33 -0500 From: James Dent / NYKGN Subject: (rshsdepot) Bristol, TN Via Railway Preservation News... Bristol Trainstation Foundation Receives Gifts from Estate of Train Enthusiast The Bristol Trainstation Foundation (TN) has received gifts of property and $350,000 in cash from the estate of Bristol businessman and train enthusiast Henry Kegley, officials announced Friday. The foundation announced the gifts just before Friday's performance of "Hear That Whistle Blow ... Erwin Train 'a Coming" at the Paramount Center for the Arts. "(Kegley) was always a person who contributed to worthy causes," said George Warren, trustee of the Kegley estate. "He was, in the truest since of the word, ... a railroad man." The musical production, based on oral histories from Clinchfield Railroad workers and their families, was used as a fund-raiser for the foundation's efforts to restore historic Union Depot. "The Kegley estate has agreed to donate some property behind the train station that we can use for parking and a donation of $350,000 cash," foundation Co-chairman Carl Moore said. "The parking is very crucial for the train station. "In exchange for the gift, we will be naming the large room inside the train station the Henry Kegley Community Room." "That is a great tribute to Henry and a much-deserved tribute," Warren said when a banner bearing the name of the new room was unveiled. The cash donation from the Henry Kegley Foundation is the largest private gift so far given to the drive, which now totals about $1.5 million, Moore said. He said the money and property legally were transferred early this year after about a year of discussions. Construction crews are expected to begin work later this year on a complete renovation of Union Depot, Moore said. "We can't touch a blade of grass until Virginia releases the transportation funds," he said of a $500,000 grant approved last year. The money is expected to be made available next month, Moore added. Moore said Kegley, who died in 1998, was a railroad buff and had a private railroad car at his business, Tenneva Foodservice. The firm, which celebrated its 50th anniversary in 1997, ceased operations in Bristol Virginia shortly thereafter. Kegley's one-of-a-kind rail car was built for the president of Nickel Plate Railroad in 1929. Kegley bought it when it was retired in 1971. The Indiana Transportation Museum bought it last year. (David McGee, Rick Wagner and Keisha Bruce, from the Bristol Herald Courier, via Dennis Lamont) ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00C0C9E94081D5119E5200508BB9051DF42E5F_@_mail1.itochu.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:43:32 -0500 From: James Dent / NYKGN Subject: (rshsdepot) Cleburne, TX From the Interchange at Railway Preservation News... The Cleburne, TX depot ( Trinity & Brazos Valley RR ) is currenty front page at "Preservation 911," the online magazine of the National Trust for Historic Preservation. I believe it will be "front page" for a week, and then moved down on the page to the archived story area. (Stephen Hussar) http://www.nationaltrust.org/magazine/911/index.htm ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #319 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000901c1cf37$69d4f700$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:15:44 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) LaPorte, IN Photo link: http://www.heraldargus.com/class/getdata.php?id=5 Local appraiser say depot not worth much By DANIEL PRZYBYLA - Staff writer A local appraiser says if the city doesn't plan to renovate the deteriorating structures that make up the former Conrail depot, he recommends demolishing them. The depot's passenger station and baggage building, along with 3.4 acres of surrounding land, were appraised Feb. 13 at $83,500. A report from Alan Landing of Heritage Appraisal Service was given to the LaPorte Board of Public Works and Safety last week. In it Landing wrote, "the buildings now on the site are also in poor condition and I believe were it not the city contemplating the purchase and renovation of these improvements, they would need to be demolished." He continued, "The subject property due to its external surroundings, shape and current improvements leaves a remnant that has little economic utility or value." Despite Landing's observations, LaPorte Mayor Kathy Chroback said previous informal assessments of buildings indicate they are structurally sound. City officials said buildings would require new windows, tuck-pointing and major work to the clay tile roofs. "It's in great shape as far as the bricks and foundation," she said. Four companies are vying for the work to oversee the restoration design. All four said the buildings weren't beyond the point of renovation. Following eight years of property wrangling, in November the city secured a 20-year lease agreement with Norfolk Southern Railroad to rent the depot's two structures: the 1910 passenger station and the baggage house. That move allowed the city to utilize an $819,000 Indiana Department of Transportation grant to fund restoration. The city's match of 20 percent - $163,800 - has been sitting in coffers. The city was to decide this week among four companies to oversee the restoration work. The mayor plans to house the Greater LaPorte Chamber of Commerce and Greater LaPorte Economic Development Corporation in the depot. After the lease ends in 20 years, city officials hope for outright ownership of the depot. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #320 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <014d01c1cfff$1d5367e0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:05:14 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Clermont, IA Photo link: http://images.zwire.com/local/Z/Zwire1896/zwire/images/depotweb233.jpg Clermont Historicals wants train depot on National Register of Historic Places By Jeremy Varner - March 19, 2002 If the walls of the old Rock Island Train Depot in Clermont could only talk - imagine the stories they could tell in documenting the decades of historical events gone by. The brick depot was the heart of the community and a transportation hub for many years, says LaVerne Swenson, local historian. At one time, four passenger trains and two freight trains traveled through Clermont each day. Constructed in 1871 of brick made in Clermont, the building qualifies for the National Register of Historic Places. Although the Clermont Historic Preservation Commission applied for a grant last year to fund the nomination of the depot to the register monies were unavailable. State Historical Society of Iowa National Register Coordinator Beth Foster said many applications are received each year and funding is limited. The depot, used by trains for 100 years, is currently a storage site for the Valley Co-op which owns the building. Lloyd Meier, chairman of the Clermont Historic Preservation Commission, said it hasn't yet been decided if a grant will be reapplied for this year. He said the local commission wants the depot on the register and will continue working toward that goal. Properties are nominated to the register by the state historic preservation officer in each state. Once nominated, the decision is reviewed by a board of professionals in the fields of American history, architecture, archaeology, and related fields. The State Historical Society of Iowa website states each nomination must be reviewed at least three times before being forwarded to the Keeper of the National Register. Because the process requires extensive research and is costly, Clermont opted to seek a grant to fund the nomination. The register is the nation's official list of cultural resources worthy of preservation. Authorized by the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966, it is part of a program to coordinate private and public efforts to identify, evaluate, and protect historic and archaeological resources. A survey by R.C. Vogel and Associates from July 1990 to June 1991 determined which Clermont sites qualified for the register and deserve preservation. Thirty-nine sites were reviewed and several were found to be historically significant including the old depot and other brick structures. Swenson, also a member of the Clermont Historical Society, said the survey's recommendation will weigh heavily on the nomination decision of the state historical society. Clermont might be one of the few such small communities in Iowa to have the distinction of boasting six sites on the National Register of Historici Sites. Currently six sites in historic Clermont are listed on the register including: Montauk (1973), Union Sunday School (1974), Larrabee School (1995), Riegel Blacksmith Shop (1995), Abraham Lincoln Statue and Park (2000), Church of the Savior Episcopal Church and D.B. Henderson Statue (2000). Before becoming governor in 1886, William Larrabee was a member a committee that met with officers of the Burlington, Cedar Rapids and Minnesota railroad companies in Cedar Rapids in 1871 trying to establish a branch line from Cedar Rapids to Postville. During his two terms in office, Governor Larrabee was heavily involved with regulation of railroads. With aid provided by tax and subscription, construction began in November 1871 after surveys were completed. The first train arrived in Clermont September 5, 1872 and two days later the first train on the Milwaukee division arrived. In 1903 the railroad was conveyed to the Chicago, Rock Island, and Pacific Railway. The Rock Island Railroad Depot still stands at the corner of Mill Street, opposite Lincoln Park. Constructed of red brick fired in a local brick yard, the depot is rectangular and 1-1/2 stories in height under a gable roof. Interesting features include the radiating brick voussoirs with keystones, the lighter brick quoins, and the distinctive roof shape. The building is one of only two in Clermont that sit square with the world. Swenson said the freight trains stopping in Clermont frequently hauled brick, coal, lumber, and livestock. A brickworks established by Christian Miller at the turn of the century used machinery to fashion millions of red and white brick, hollow tile, and concrete block. The bricks were then shipped by train until the 1940s. During the Grand Reunion of Iowa's Twelfth Infantry in June 1903, special trains and cars ran to Clermont to help move the 6,000-8,000 people who attended the event. According to a 1903 Postville Herald article recently discovered by the Grand Reunion Centennial Committee, fare for a round trip from Postville paid by individuals attending the festivities - was 40 cents. Vernon Oakland, another local historian, said trains passed through Clermont for exactly 100 years. The last train to make the trip through Clermont did so in 1972. The old rail line was abandoned but has since become the subject of an ongoing recreation trail discussion. Valley Cooperative manager Kent Appler said the co-op currently has no plans for the depot though many options have been discussed. He said since the property is privately owned, the board will probably have to approve of the nomination to the national register. He noted the board tabled discussion related to the depot until more information can be obtained about the co-op's responsibilities for owning a national register property. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <01fa01c1d052$e995f860$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:05:04 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Lodi, CA Photo links: (restored depot) http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/structures_ca/byron_bostwick_sp-depot-lodi - -new-b.jpg http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/structures_ca/byron_bostwick_sp-depot-lodi - -new-d.jpg http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/structures_ca/byron_bostwick_sp-depot-lodi - -new-c.jpg http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/structures_ca/byron_bostwick_sp-depot-lodi - -new-a.jpg (plaque at station) (station before restoration & move) http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/structures_ca/af_lodi-c.jpg http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/structures_ca/af_lodi-b.jpg http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/structures_ca/af_lodi-a.jpg Passenger service returns By Jeff Hood Lodi Bureau Chief LODI -- Two-year-old Nathan Bond's eyes grew wide and a smile appeared on his face as the horn grew louder. Another child shouted, "It's the train!" Others applauded and cheered as the engine and four cars came to a halt at Lodi Station at 7:18 a.m. Monday, the first passenger train to stop in Lodi in 31 years. About 80 people boarded, and the Amtrak was off four minutes later. "This whole concept of train travel is as American as it gets," said Ed Bond, who along with his son and wife, Jennifer, were making a round trip to Merced. "It's neat to get back to that and remember a time that was less rushed." The Bakersfield-bound train was the first to serve Lodi since the Sacramento Daylight, operated by Southern Pacific, ended operations April 30, 1971. Amtrak started the next day -- but without Lodi on its schedule. City officials had to lobby Caltrans, which operates Amtrak in most of the state, and Union Pacific Railroad, which owns the rails, to get the service. It also took the renovation and 1999 relocation of the former train depot, now Lodi's transit hub. Tuesday also was the day Amtrak added a second daily round-trip train between Bakersfield and Sacramento. That train, delayed by ceremonies hailing its arrival in Merced, Modesto and Stockton, was more than a half-hour behind its revised schedule, arriving in Lodi at 12:08 p.m. and staying until 12:25. Lodi's Curtis Lee, who was among the approximately 80 passengers boarding in Lodi for Sacramento, said he hadn't ridden a train since the 1940s. He said he would consider Amtrak for visiting his former home of San Diego, especially with the extra security in place at airports since the Sept. 11 air attacks. "It's quite a hassle nowadays to fly," said Lee, 73. All in all, the train is more relaxing and less stressful in view of the long-term parking garage (a block north)." Some of those who took the early-morning train to Merced and returned to Lodi said it was a relaxing, no-hassle way to travel. "It's good quality time with your kids," Jennifer Bond said, "because you're not driving, and they're not in back." About 1,000 people were at the station to greet the northbound train. Representatives for Gov. Gray Davis, state Sen. Michael Machado, D-Linden, and U.S. Rep. Richard Pombo, R-Tracy, were among those attending, as well as Lodi officials. "After 31 years, welcome to the Amtrak family," said Gil Mallery, chief executive officer of Amtrak West, which oversees rail operations in the Western United States. "I can tell from the turnout today, you folks are ready for rail service, and we won't let you down." Train travel completes the choice of travel modes from Lodi Station, the only one in the Central Valley where travelers can choose local, regional or Greyhound buses, taxis or trains, connecting to virtually any possible destination. All in one spot. "It's actually a fulfillment of our plan to being a fully multimodal station," City Councilman Keith Land said. "And people can come here and Lodi will be a destination spot." * To reach Lodi Bureau Chief Jeff Hood, call 367-7427 or e-mail jhood_@_recordnet.com ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002a01c1d08e$fdff8780$6e47f6d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:14:41 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Fw: Railways or forward to the 19th century in Afghanistan - -----Original Message----- From: PinardR_@_rferl.org To: Paul S. Luchter Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:05 AM Subject: Railways or forward to the 19th century in Afghanistan From our Pashtu program of 24 Feb: ITEM 6 [Arif Osmanzoi]: At the start of the month of Salwagha [roughly equivalent to February] at the Tokyo conference for the reconstruction of Afghanistan, a large meeting of the donor countries was organized. Besides other financial proposals, Afghan officials also presented a very old proposal, that of building a railway line in Afghanistan. The building of a railway line in Afghanistan was included in President Dawood Khan's seven-year plan of 1976. My colleague, Bari Hakim, will present a report about this proposed plan to you: [Bari Hakim]: At the Tokyo conference that was held at the start of the month of Salwagha for the reconstruction of Afghanistan, Afghan leaders besides other urgent and immediate programs, proposed the plan of building a railway line inside their mountainous country. This project was planned but never implemented for more than two centuries. The history of this plan goes back to the time of "the Great Game" in the 19th century, when the Russian and British-Indian empires had extended their railway lines to the borders of Afghanistan. However, the rulers of Kabul at that time did not permit these vital transportation links to be extended inside Afghanistan. Then, many decades of war pushed this country further away from this dream. The new Afghanistan nation wants to have a close relationship with the outside world so it can benefit from international aid and support. As the Deputy of the new interim Planning minister of Afghanistan, Mr. Abdul Salam, explaining the railway plan told the Reuters news agency: ?Nowadays, the world is getting closer, and we want to be part of it.? The Afghan Railway plan was sketched in the middle of the 1970?s, but after the communist coup of 1980 was shelved and then left forgotten. According to this plan, landlocked Afghanistan would be connected to two important ports, in the Persian Gulf with the Iranian port of Bandar-e-Abbas, and in the Arabian Sea with the Pakistani port of Karachi. It is planned that this railway line would extend from the Iranian border through to the western Afghan city of Herat and would cross the southern flat lands to Kandahar. The line would then go through the mountainous areas of the north, and then across to the copper mines of Lowgar Province and to Kabul. A narrow line would then be extended to the iron mines under the hills that are located in the mountainous areas of Bamyan. Another rail line would extend from Kandahar to the town of Chaman, close to the border of Pakistan, where it would connect to the British-built rail line. Even though the Afghan Railway plan was on the agenda of the Tokyo conference, the reality is that behind this plan, a long period of dispute between the forces of development and the forces of conservation in Afghanistan, is concealed. These disputes have become a big hurdle in the way of economic development. Economic development and modernization has become an important goal in Afghanistan, because the reluctance to move forward has kept Afghanistan in the darkness of anarchy and paved the way for the rise of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda to power in Afghanistan. The new leaders of Afghanistan and their supporters are trying to prevent the repetition of the mistakes of the past. [Arif Osmanzoi]: This was our colleague's report about the possibility of building railway lines in Afghanistan. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #321 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004101c1d0c6$436cf280$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 05:50:48 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Lebanon, OR Link: http://www.usgennet.org/usa/or/town/lebanon/train.html Lebanon Train Station Restoration Project (with old photo of station) Council approves final depot design By A.K. Dugan Lebanon Express Writer The final plans for restoration of the Santiam Travel Station, Phase II, were approved by a 4-2 vote of the city council last week after an extended discussion. At issue were architect recommendations to use sealed windows over the old sliding doors. The windows would allow the original structure to be seen and provide energy efficiency in the building. Voting in favor were Ron Miller, Ken Toombs, Stan Usinger and Dan Thackaberry. Those opposed were Mel Harrington and Roger Munk. Toombs said in an interview on Monday he voted to approve the plan because it is time to move forward and get the depot in shape for use. "I think we've wasted enough money," he said. "We have to have a viable station we can use. It's time to get on with it." Harrington is a member of the Lebanon Historic Resources Commission, which recommended against accepting the architect's design. He voted no, he said, because he thinks the glass front windows compromise the historic appearance of the building's exterior. Munk was concerned about the cost. "I voted no because I thought the amount of money being spent for the benefit gained was too much," Munk said. The approved plan calls for sliding freight doors on the south and west sides of the structure to be locked partially open and covered on the outside by "storefront" windows over the closed portion and new public access doors framed into the open space. On the east side, the sliding doors would be permanently closed and a window framed on the inside of the entire door opening. Harrington said he would favor retreating from the project and leaving the exterior and interior of the freight bay as is. Mayor Scott Simpson suggested looking at the design used for a historic depot in Springfield. In that plan, public access doors are cut into the sliding doors, which are secured in place. City engineer Allen Dannen said that might threaten the grant funding. The plans also must be approved by the Oregon Department of Transportation, which is paying most of the bill for the work, and the State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO). The former Southern Pacific Railroad depot is on the national register of historic buildings. The ODOT grant is for $391,000. The city is providing matching funds of $69,000 from city funds and $16,000 from state foot and bike path funds. The project includes building a deck on the south and west sides of the building, landscaping and parking on both the east and west sides of Sherman Street adjacent to the depot and making Third Street one-way southbound between Sherman and Grant streets. A few years ago a $384,000 grant from ODOT paid for exterior renovations and restoration of the lobby of the building. At a meeting on Oct. 10, 2001, the council directed the architect to provide a design that would allow for efficient heating and cooling of the large freight bay. The conceptual design for the former freight bay included a conference room, large meeting room, kitchen, office, storage room and two Americans with Disabilities Act bathrooms. At that time, Harrington opposed covering up the walls with insulation on the inside. The space - 23 feet wide and almost 100 feet long - had never been finished inside. Currently, light can be seen through floorboards and walls. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:56 -0500 From: "Kenyon Karl" Subject: (rshsdepot) FW: AAR's RailFanClub is ready. Join now! - -----Original Message----- From: Member Services RailFanClub [mailto:membersvcs_@_railfanclub.org] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:48 PM To: Palmer, Thomas Subject: AAR's RailFanClub is ready. Join now! Dear interested railfan, The Association of American Railroads is happy to announce RailFanClub. We received an email inquiry from you, and promised to keep you posted on this new online club for train enthusiasts. We urge you to visit http://www.railfanclub.org and join today! RailFanClub is a members-accessible club offering railroad industry news, a monthly club newsletter, train discussion and photo swap, contests, fun downloads, trivia, videos, a train simulation demo, and much more. Most importantly, RailFanClub offers resources to help railfans pass the knowledge of railroads to the next generation; A weekly train lesson, a field guide, and classroom projects help railfans organize information about their hobby and share it with others. RailFanClub annual membership costs only $19.99. RailFanClub's membership contibutions go to the Railroad Research Foundation at the AAR . The Railroad Research Foundation's mission is to promote today's railroad industry through research, communication and education activities. Joining the club can be done online, or by mailing $19.99 to: RailFanClub Association of American Railroads 50 F Street NW Ste 1200 Washington, DC 20001 Email or call us with any questions about RailFanClub. Tom Palmer Manager of Member Services RailFanClub (202) 639-2540 ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006101c1d16b$4d798540$3c4b9a40_@_paul> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:28:47 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) United Nations Station NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo UNStation.jpg (image/jpeg, 350136 bytes) Here is a Times photo from 9/23/1946. The United nations would be at Lake Success/New Hyde Park (and the remaining historic buildings were recently demolished), and there were meetings there, but there were also meetings at a site at the former World's Fair site at the former New York City pavilion/building (still there today as a museum or is it an ice rink, the big model of New York City is inside now. It is off the Grand Central Parkway.) This was a second picture above the caption at the top of this scan Beginning on 10/23 there were to be United nations meetings at this building in Flushing Meadows. here is a picture of the United Nations Long Island Railroad station for these meeting. I believe it was the World's Fair Station and is today the Shea Stadium Station. I am unsure which way we are looking. East towards Grand Central Parkway (I can't recall if the LIRR goes over or under the GCT. Maybe there was a road bridge at that time (I don't think there is one now, though I don't remember what is used by the Mets fans from the LIRR station to Shea either), maybe we are looking east. This is the Port Washington branch. Once there were Corona and Elmhurst Stations to the west, Flushing is next station east. This may also be called Willet's Point station today, though Willet's Point is really up NE at Fort Totten east of the Throggs Neck bridge-a star shaped fort (now gone) with the first pedestrian tunnel (600 feet) between the battery and the rest of the complex. There were also Nike missiles based here, these were matched with missiles at Fort Tilden at the western point of Rockaway Peninsula. All forts had a twin. Fort Totten's was Fort Schuyler on the Throgg's Neck in the Bronx, Fort Tilden's was Fort Monmouth at Sandy Hook. Which direction are we looking in this UN Station photo, what is the overpass in the background? Does anyone have any information on this United Stations LIRR station? Paul ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #322 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <9263218.1016787273_@_sodor.cc.columbia.edu> References: <006101c1d16b$4d798540$3c4b9a40_@_paul> In-Reply-To: <006101c1d16b$4d798540$3c4b9a40_@_paul> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:54:33 -0500 From: Joseph Brennan Subject: (rshsdepot) Re: United Nations Station The U N was located at the former Worlds Fair site for a short time. The station is at the site of the 1939-40 Worlds Fair station, which later was the site of the 1964-65 Worlds Fair station, now called Shea Stadium. The bridge connected Northern Blvd with the Worlds Fair site and was mainly for pedestrians crossing from the subway station to the fair. It doesn't look familiar because it was replaced before 1964 by a larger bridge that is there now. I'd guess looking east, at the hill in Flushing, because the main station buildings of the present station are on the west side of the footbridge and chances are that's where the earlier ones were. Joe - --On Friday, March 22, 2002 01:28 -0500 "Paul S. Luchter" wrote: > > > Here is a Times photo from 9/23/1946. The United nations would be at Lake Success/New Hyde Park > (and the remaining historic buildings were recently demolished), and there were meetings there, > but there were also meetings at a site at the former World's Fair site at the former New York > City pavilion/building (still there today as a museum or is it an ice rink, the big model of New > York City is inside now. It is off the Grand Central Parkway.) This was a second picture above > the caption at the top of this scan > Beginning on 10/23 there were to be United nations meetings at this building in Flushing > Meadows. here is a picture of the United Nations Long Island Railroad station for these meeting. > I believe it was the World's Fair Station and is today the Shea Stadium Station. I am unsure > which way we are looking. East towards Grand Central Parkway (I can't recall if the LIRR goes > over or under the GCT. Maybe there was a road bridge at that time (I don't think there is one > now, though I don't remember what is used by the Mets fans from the LIRR station to Shea either), > maybe we are looking east. This is the Port Washington branch. Once there were Corona and > Elmhurst Stations to the west, Flushing is next station east. > This may also be called Willet's Point station today, though Willet's Point is really up NE at > Fort Totten east of the Throggs Neck bridge-a star shaped fort (now gone) with the first > pedestrian tunnel (600 feet) between the battery and the rest of the complex. There were also > Nike missiles based here, these were matched with missiles at Fort Tilden at the western point of > Rockaway Peninsula. All forts had a twin. Fort Totten's was Fort Schuyler on the Throgg's Neck in > the Bronx, Fort Tilden's was Fort Monmouth at Sandy Hook. > Which direction are we looking in this UN Station photo, what is the overpass in the background? > Does anyone have any information on this United Stations LIRR station? > Paul ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008f01c1d1dd$7e063c40$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:09:36 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Station Revitalization Benefits Local Communities Station Revitalization Benefits Local Communities New Study Quantifies Economic Impacts PRESS RELEASE (For Immediate Release) Contact: Erich Strebe voice: (505) 426-8055 fax: (505) 426-8057 email: estrebe_@_transact.org web: www.stationfoundation.org A new study demonstrates that restoring historic train stations to be transportation centers for rail, bus and transit can be a powerful tool for downtown revitalization in both big cities and small towns. The study, Economic Impact of Station Revitalization, which was released today, was conducted by the firm of Transportation Economics and Management Systems, Inc. for the Great American Station Foundation. As the disadvantages of suburban sprawl become more and more apparent, communities of all sizes are making urban renewal and city center development urgent priorities. Revitalized rail stations and multimodal transportation centers are increasingly used as critical anchors for such redevelopment efforts. "This study will help communities understand and estimate the considerable economic benefits of their own train station revitalization projects," said Hank Dittmar, the Station Foundation's president. According to Dittmar, these benefits can include significant increases in local employment, household income, property values, and property tax receipts. "The ability to realistically quantify these positive impacts can make it easier to justify such projects to skeptical citizens and local governments," says Dittmar. The study shows that the benefits of station revitalization projects can be substantial, depending on community size, the population density of the transportation corridor, and the types of transportation available. The final section of the study provides a step-by-step guide that communities can use to gauge the economic impact of their own potential station projects. "The study clearly demonstrates that keeping transportation at the heart of these revitalization projects pays off, both for tenants who benefit from sales generated by train and bus passengers, but also for the community in jobs and economic growth," said John Robert Smith, Mayor of Meridian, Mississippi. " Our station project in Meridian has generated over $34 million in economic development in the city's downtown area." The Great American Station Foundation is the national intermediary organization for station revitalization, as well as for community revitalization in areas surrounding intercity, commuter and urban rail stations. The complete study, including both methodology and anecdotal examples, may be requested by calling the Station Foundation at 505-426-8055 or may be downloaded. Link to report: http://www.stationfoundation.org/news/EI%20Study%20final%20report.pdf ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #323 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000501c1d267$d08c3ac0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:39:45 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Tuscaloosa, AL Photo links: http://www.geocities.com/jeff_robertson/rail/photos/rail3.jpg (corner of station with NS engine) http://lib2.clark.cc.oh.us/amtrak/amtStationTZ/TuscaloosaAL.jpg Amtrak woes may threaten hub By Marla Luster Staff Writer - The Tuscaloosa News March 22, 2002 TUSCALOOSA | A proposed transportation hub that could help revitalize a blighted area around Tuscaloosa's aging train station is in limbo because of the uncertain status of Amtrak's service to the city. The City Council wants to know what effect the loss of Amtrak would have on a $1.9 million federal allocation that the city plans to use to rehabilitate the aging train station on Greensboro Avenue and surrounding property into an intermodal transportation center. Amtrak has proposed eliminating the Crescent line, which serves Tuscaloosa, if it does not receive a $1.2 billion federal subsidy for the 2003 fiscal year. The city's allocation would be used to renovate the Amtrak station and construct a 10,000 square foot intermodal facility nearby that would house the transit authority and other modes of transportation, including buses, trains, taxis and rental cars. "If the city loses Amtrak, what effect would that have on the grant?" asked Joe Robinson, director of the Tuscaloosa Department of Transportation, explaining the concerns of council members. The council's finance committee wants an answer before it agrees to pay for an environmental assessment that the city must complete before the grant money is released. The city faces a Sept. 30 deadline, when the grant will expire, to finish studies on air quality, materials and on buildings in the area to see if they have historical value. The deadline had already been extended from last September. An environmental engineering firm, Burk-Kleinpeter, estimated that the assessment could be finished by Sept. 27 if the process began Wednesday. The studies have not begun. Robinson said he hopes to contract with Burke-Kleinpeter to do the environmental assessment by next week. He said that if it didn't get the studies done in time, the city could reapply for the grant to avoid losing the money. The finance committee could make a decision Tuesday after officials talk with Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., who was responsible for including the grant money for the intermodal center in the Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century. The act, which Congress must renew every five years, designates funding for public transportation. But Shelby is also a staunch opponent of the federal Amtrak subsidy. The council's public projects committee agreed Tuesday to start negotiating costs for the environmental assessment with Burke-Kleinpeter, Councilman Joe Powell said. About a year ago, the planning department submitted an environmental assessment to the Federal Transit Administration Department, but the agency had more questions. That's when Robinson thought about getting help from an engineering firm. "The studies are a little more in-depth than we thought they would be," said Councilman Harrison Taylor, whose district includes the train station area. Some council members said they are optimistic that plans for the transportation center will materialize. "Even if the intermodal facility were somehow scaled back due to lack of Amtrak, I think the project would have great importance for the area that it 's in because of the blighted nature of that community," Powell said. "I don't think Amtrak staying or not will effect this," said Taylor, who sits on the finance committee. "We hope it doesn't; we need a clarification on it in the next few days." Taylor said the benefits of the intermodal center would outweigh the costs the city may have to pay for studies. "We'll definitely make that money back in taxes and growth on prospective new businesses coming to Greensboro," he said. "We're willing to do what it takes to get the job done and see this become a reality." Tuscaloosa Parking and Transit Authority director Norman Schenck said he believes that if Amtrak leaves, its absence would be temporary. "The concept is to have several modes of transportation to one area," he said. "Because Amtrak goes away now, it doesn't mean it will be gone forever." The city would pay $400,000, or 20 percent, of the total cost of the facility to match $1.9 million federal allocation. The city also wants to acquire other property surrounding the train station along Greensboro, Queen City Avenue and Hargrove Road and make it available for retail development and transportation-related businesses. Some of the area would be set aside for a small park and green space. Taylor said new businesses have already come to the are because of the upcoming revitalization project. Older businesses have done some remodeling, he said. "I hope the business people will be patient and finish what they already started doing," he said. "That was once a lively business part of Tuscaloosa; we want to restore it back to those times that we knew." ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000f01c1d269$5e94e5a0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:50:53 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Ashland, WI Workers to lift steeple onto Ashland's Soo Line Depot Friday. The Daily Press Nearly two years after fire gutted the historic Soo Line Depot, workers will lift a rebuilt steeple by crane to the top of the building. Area residents are invited to the steeple raising Friday from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m., weather permitting. Windy weather would delay the raising; the final determination will be made Friday morning. "The raising of the steeple is symbolic of the progress we've made since the Depot was destroyed by fire on April 1, 2000," said Leslie Hamp, project coordinator. "It'll be exciting to watch the process, and it'll be a time to celebrate the efforts that brought our community and region together to save and restore this beautiful historic structure." The restoration effort has been helped by a community fundraising effort, a $499,000 National Park Service Save America's Treasures grant, and a $1 million Wisconsin Department of Transportation grant. Significant progress has been made since April 2001 when former building owners Mark and Val Gutteter donated the Depot building and property to the Ashland Area Development Corporation, a non-profit entity administering the effort to restore the structure as a public/private partnership. In addition to fund-raising efforts, area residents have been watching daily progress at the Depot construction site. The first phase of the restoration project focused on cleaning and stabilizing the building and adding a roof. Workers from Wayne Nasi Construction will finish Phase I with the lifting of the steeple. Final shingling of the roof will take place in April or May during warmer weather. Completing interior work during Phase II of the restoration effort begins in July 2002. Final completion is projected for September 2003. Hamp said community focus groups provided input regarding possible tenants and uses for the building which will likely house paying tenants to provide income for utilities and upkeep as well as tenants to serve the public sector. A transportation museum is being researched. Since launching a fund-raising effort in May 2001, the Depot Restoration Committee has raised $557,000 of a $600,000 goal. A large portion came from the Mary K. Rice Foundation of Bayfield which donated $150,000 and got the fund-raising effort started. Area residents followed that lead gift making another $407,000 in cash contributions and $105,000 in in-kind contributions. Fundraising efforts will continue until the remaining $43,000 is raised. Tax-deductible donations can be sent to AADC/Depot Restoration Fund, 422 Third Street West, Ashland, WI 54806. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:01:37 -0500 (EST) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: (rshsdepot) LV Delano Depot Has anyone heard anything since last fall about the status of the Lehigh Valley's Delano station? It's apparently in terrible shape and in danger of being razed. There's a discussion on it at: http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=LV;action=display;num=1016918328;start=4 Note the long URL, it can also be reached by going to http://forums.railfan.net and clicking on the LV Fallen Flags forum. Henry P.S. Yes, Railfan.net is now officially hosting public web forums :) J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #324 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <200203241748.g2OHmQ0b004532_@_mail.snowcrest.net> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:46:51 GMT From: marnells_@_snowcrest.net Subject: (rshsdepot) Sacramento Northern's Woodland Depot First, my apologies if this message appears in duplicate...or even triplicate. My emailer is being weird this weekend. Here goes... I thought I had simply come across a nicely restored depot in Woodland, CA, and added a standard page to my "Railroad Locations as seen from Above" site. Turns out this was only half of the story. I've begun assembling more info on this substantial project, which has been essentially a one-man operation in bringing history back to life... Take a look at http://www.snowcrest.net/marnells/woodland.htm and come back again soon... I expect to have more. Harry Marnell http://www.snowcrest.net/marnells/airrail.htm <<~~ California Rail Landmarks As seen from space & sky - --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. http://www.snowcrest.net ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #325 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005401c1d3e9$ef2b2f30$9865fea9_@_Wagenblast> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 05:43:43 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Atlanta, GA GRAND CENTRAL GULCH; State funds drive larger plans for city's multimodal station The Atlanta Journal and Constitution DAVID PENDERED A gulch in the heart of Atlanta's central business district is as close as it's ever been to becoming a grand central station, serving commuter rail and express buses and providing access to MARTA. The station, on the drawing board for 13 years, is seen as a salvation for metro Atlanta's traffic and air quality issues. It's also supposed to be an economic boon to residents of outlying areas who will have an easier commute to jobs in and around Atlanta. The new twist on the old gulch story is the realization last summer that it can be built in phases and cover more than twice the ground of the former project. It got the final nudge last week when state lawmakers provided the last bit of funding needed to buy land and release other funds to start an engineering study. Planners now see the multimodal station development as a public/private venture that might take up to 40 years to build fully into a boulevard lined with condos, shops, offices and hotels. Filling the urban crater with a pedestrian platform would create a viable walkway all the way from the state Capitol complex to Underground Atlanta, Philips Arena and the Atlanta University Center. "It will be all that, and more," said Jim Overton, a senior vice president with Cousins Properties, which owns air rights between the planned station and Philips Arena. "The market will look favorably on it." Well, that's the plan. It seems tremendously ambitious at a time when grocery chains don't see the numbers needed to make a store work in the burgeoning residential neighborhood near Centennial Olympic Park. Not to mention the stiff competition the gulch project will face from similarly grandiose live-work-play blueprints for Atlantic Station, Midtown and Buckhead. These proposals for dense urban development are underpinned by a belief that metro Atlanta will continue to be a mecca for newcomers and that many will choose to work and live in the city to avoid a commute from the suburbs. Those who don't live in Atlanta would commute by express bus and eventually commuter rail to jobs and entertainment venues in the central city. Wendell Cox is a Doubting Thomas. Cox is an adjunct scholar at the nonpartisan Georgia Public Policy Foundation and principal of a St. Louis-based public policy firm. Cox says the flaw in the theory is the mistaken belief the central city provides most of the jobs and entertainment venues in the Atlanta region. The suburbs are now home to more jobs and abundant regional entertainment venues, he suggests. "Everyone in the suburbs would have to move inside Atlanta's city limits to make these plans work," Cox says. "London is the type of city these plans envision, and London has a million workers. In Atlanta, Midtown and downtown have about 200,000 workers. "There's this tendency on the part of the planners to plan everything as if central Atlanta is the focus of everything," Cox says. "While central Atlanta is an impressive place, it represents 6 to 7 percent of the employment in the region." But the private sector that has developed Atlanta has great faith in the city's future and believe it will flourish even more if commuter rail and express bus service are provided to the central city. Still, some concede that decades could pass before the time is right to fully develop the transit station and its environs. "It will come together in 10 to 40 years (because) it will take that long for ridership to mature on commuter rail and express bus," says Overton, the Cousins officer. "It will be like MARTA ridership. MARTA is beginning to come into its own. We have a sincere desire to participate in the project in some form or fashion." So does Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin. "We've really been pushing this in our first 60 days," Franklin said of her lobbying efforts to win the final piece of state funding needed for the first phase of development --- the acquisition of land still in private hands. Simultaneously, other funds should provide for a preliminary design and engineering plan that can be shown to potential investors. Franklin made all the right connections in seeking support. She made her case to Gov. Roy Barnes and lawmakers who strongly influence state spending, as well as the chairman of the state Democratic Party, Rep. Calvin Smyre (D-Columbus). The outreach to Smyre was important because it reminded Democrats that the mayor is a potentially powerful ally of the Democrats in this year's congressional campaigns and statewide races. Franklin positioned the transit station less as a project to benefit Atlanta and more as a regional development tool. The station is a linchpin of a commuter rail system expected to foster economic boomlets at virtually every stop, as rail is extended through Macon, Athens, Gainesville and other cities. Franklin emphasized that the downtown station project is now and will continue to be managed by the state. "I'm lending my support in a very visible way to Georgia Department of Transportation and the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority and using my honeymoon period to move this project forward," Franklin says. "My involvement is really one more example of the city supporting the region and supporting state initiatives." State going forward The state is pushing forward with funding and planning. State lawmakers provided $ 2.6 million in the amended 2002 state budget to buy land for the station project. The money is the final piece of a local match that would draw about $ 20 million from the federal government that U.S. Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) helped secure. The state already had provided the match with $ 2 million in bonds, and the city provided $ 1 million in cash, plus city-owned land at the site. Paul Mullins oversees the station project as DOT's director of intermodal development. He says the project could be at the brink of the construction stage in about a year. Mullins says much of the land for the train station and regional bus terminal is publicly owned by the city, Atlanta-Fulton County Recreation Authority, the state and MARTA. Title work on the nearly 20-acre site is under way and an initial report is expected at the end of April. If all this talk sounds familiar, it is. The new wrinkle is an offer last year by Norfolk Southern railroad to sell to the state a little-used freight line from Atlanta to Macon and property in Atlanta including a tract from Spring Street to Philips Arena. That portion of the deal would allow the station's development to leap across the CNN Center parking decks. Tract stirred talks The possibility of acquiring this larger tract spawned discussion last fall of the station becoming a transportation hub in the central city that could spur private-sector development reaching 10 to 20 stories into the sky. The concept complements Atlanta's effort to shape itself into a more walkable city by promoting mixed-use developments. "When Norfolk Southern put all that land up for sale, all of a sudden there was no reason to limit the vision of this postage stamp of land we had been considering," said Michael Dobbins, Atlanta's planning commissioner, who plans to continue with the project after he retires next month. Dobbins is widely credited with coming up with an idea that eliminated a big hurdle in the ultimate project. He suggested that Greyhound Lines Inc. locate its station near the CNN MARTA station, instead of near Five Points station. Greyhound's Gary Jones said the company approved the plan after reviewing ridership figures showing the vast majority of Greyhound riders use MARTA's East-West line. That helped the project break free from a big-box prototype near Five Points station and possibly become a new urban center. "This is a bigger project than we'd been thinking it is," Dobbins says. "It needs to have the potential to grow and expand and be developed incrementally as we assemble land transportation systems that are going to be increasingly popular. The success of Gwinnett's bus service is a perfect example of that. "The other key thing about this project is that transit just doesn't work unless you have a high concentration of destinations," Dobbins says. "You just can't run a streetcar where there isn't anything and expect it to survive. This idea of creating 2 million to 4 million square feet for a wide array of uses over the next 10 to 20 years is vital." Familiar concept Like so many controversial public projects in Atlanta, this one is the latest incarnation of a familiar concept. Everyone involved agrees the current plan will change, just as Ga. 400 was modified before it sliced through Buckhead and the Presidential Parkway became basically a driveway to the Carter Center. But the point is that those controversial projects did get off the drawing board. Sharon Gay, who chairs the rail program team, seems confident the rail and bus station will be built. She's looking ahead to naming a facility now called the Multi-Modal Passenger Terminal. Former Atlanta City Councilman Doug Alexander, who has lobbied for years for a rail program and now works as the state's rail manager, thinks Terminal Station would be a good name. Atlanta once had a station by that name. "Let's use the name we've had before," Alexander said. "It is the terminus of the railroad lines into Atlanta, the bus lines into Atlanta. So let's use the name that served for a long time." ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00C0C9E94081D5119E5200508BB9051DF42E85_@_mail1.itochu.com> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:49:10 -0500 From: James Dent / NYKGN Subject: (rshsdepot) Maplewood (Malden), MA From Railpace News... 1851 B&M DEPOT: The newly formed Friends of the Maplewood Depot announce that the 1851 Boston & Maine wood depot is scheduled to be preserved and moved on Wednesday, March 27. The depot is believed to be the oldest surving in Massachusetts, and one of very few pre-Civil War railoroad structures in existance. It will find a temporary home a few blocks down the tracks while the Friends decide how best to proceed with restoration and reuse. A group of concerned local citizens was hastily summoned to protect the charming one storey structure from being razed. Contributions have been coming in to pay for the $20,000 move, conducted by the O.B Hill Rigging Company of Natick Mass. The Friends are currently looking for volunteers to help in the effort. Contact: Dave Waller at firewaller_@_aol.com or write to Barbara Tolstrup Malden Historical Commission at Malden City Hall 200 Pleasant St Malden Mass 02148 (posted 3/24) ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #326 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:43:16 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Mark A. Thomas" Subject: (rshsdepot) Raleigh station debate See the below link for an article in today's Raleigh News & Observer about the debate over placement of a commuter rail station downtown (vicinity of current Amtrak (1940s Southern) station). I don't know what the plans are for the old station or the old Southern freight depot in the vicinity. The new transit station will be adjacent, but separate, I think, from the Amtrak station (separate track). http://www.newsobserver.com/tuesday/front/Story/1107367p-1105675c.html Link probably will only work through today. - --Mark Thomas, markt_@_duke.edu ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00C0C9E94081D5119E5200508BB9051DF42E90_@_mail1.itochu.com> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:14:54 -0500 From: James Dent / NYKGN Subject: (rshsdepot) Lemo Tower, Lemoyne, PA Pennsylvania RR's Lemo Tower in Lemoyne, PA was moved in 1984 to Strasburg, PA From Allan Brougham's Bullsheet... "He's on the Bell!" [By Jim Bradley] . . . Jim Bradley is a retired newspaper photographer living in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. He has graciously provided the Bull Sheet with a number of photographs he has taken on the topic of railroad interlocking towers. It is the intention to present this collection from time to time within the pages of the Bull Sheet using the title "He's on the Bell!" This is the first in the series, and the photographs presented herewith focus upon Lemo Tower. http://www.bullsheet.com/news/200201photos.html ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:57:23 -0500 From: Robert John Davis Subject: (rshsdepot) Friends of the Maplewood Depot announce that the 1851 Boston & Maine wood depot is scheduled to be preserved >From Railpace 1851 B&M DEPOT: The newly formed Friends of the Maplewood Depot announce that the 1851 Boston & Maine wood depot is scheduled to be preserved and moved on Wednesday, March 27. The depot is believed to be the oldest surving in Massachusetts, and one of very few pre-Civil War railoroad structures in existance. It will find a temporary home a few blocks down the tracks while the Friends decide how best to proceed with restoration and reuse. A group of concerned local citizens was hastily summoned to protect the charming one storey structure from being razed. Contributions have been coming in to pay for the $20,000 move, conducted by the O.B Hill Rigging Company of Natick Mass. The Friends are currently looking for volunteers to help in the effort. Contact: Dave Waller at firewaller_@_aol.com or write to Barbara Tolstrup Malden Historical Commission at Malden City Hall 200 Pleasant St Malden Mass 02148 (posted 3/24) -- Robert John Davis trains_@_robertjohndavis.com Moderator of the Milk Train and Dairy Industry group at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/milktrains/ Ahead of the Torch http://www.robertjohndavis.com/aott Web support for Vermont Hobby Depot http://www.vermonthobbydepot.com Please update your address books to change me from superc_@_monmouth.com to trains_@_robertjohndavis.com ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #327 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000501c1d581$3d7d3dc0$9865fea9_@_Wagenblast> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:19:19 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Albany,OR Photo links: http://shastaroute.railfan.net/Photos/Amtrak/08950.jpg (Amtrak train in station) http://shastaroute.railfan.net/Cards/Albany_2.jpg (historic photo, circa 1914) http://shastaroute.railfan.net/Cards/Albany_1.jpg (historic photo, early 20th Century) Two bridges, tunnel scratched from Albany railway depot remodel By Hasso Hering Albany Democrat-Herald Two bridges and a tunnel crossing have been axed from the plans to remodel Albany's train depot as a transportation station for trains, buses, cars, transit, bikes and people on foot. One of the parts dropped is a $3.3 million cable-stay bridge to carry pedestrians and bike riders across the rail yard from the train depot to Industrial Way. Another is a $2.5 million footbridge across Pacific Boulevard from the station to Ellsworth Street. A crossing under the tracks at Jackson Street also has been scratched for the time being. Guy Mayes, the city engineer in charge of the station project, gave the City Council a status report Monday. He asked for approval to proceed, and there was no council dissent. As it stands, the city is proceeding with a "construction package" estimated to cost more than $14.5 million. The bridges, the Jackson Street crossing and several other pathways, which also were dropped, would have jacked up the project cost to more than $25 million, according to Mayes' report. Congress has approved $9 million toward the project. An additional $2.6 million will come from a state highway bond program and pay for improving the Lyon Street underpass near the depot. Amtrak, the National Rail Passenger Corp., is supposed to contribute $1 million, and the city is contributing $1.3 million from utility, transportation and park funds for expenses related to those funds. Financing assured so far totals just under $14 million. Public Works Director Floyd Collins said the city has been talking to Congressman Peter DeFazio, D-4th District, who engineered the original grant, about getting additional grant money. The plan is to remodel the station property in two phases. The first phase is to be done in 2003, the second in 2004, and the work should be finished in 2005. The plan calls for the station building to be restored inside and out and the nearby former Railway Express Agency building to be fixed up on the outside only. The parking lot will be landscaped, improved and extended to the south. The intersection of Pacific and 12th will get a new signal. The city will have to acquire the depot property from the Union Pacific as well as two neighboring properties to the south, one of them occupied by Napp Feed, the other vacant. Mayes said negotiations with the local property owners were going well, but talks with the Union Pacific were on a "slow track." The city does not have the power to condemn property of a working railroad. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006801c1d5b4$3cf93880$9865fea9_@_Wagenblast> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:24:23 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Fayetteville, NC Links: http://www.fampo.org/train_depot.htm (additional information on restoration with drawing of depot) http://www.downtownfayetteville.com/st_trainstation.htm (more details with current photo) Old Train Depot Will Soon Be Back On Track Depot Will Be Fayetteville Area Transportation Museum And Visitor Center Kamal Wallace, Staff Writer FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. -- The oldest standing brick train depot in the state will soon be back on track. The 1890 Cape Fear and Yadkin Valley Railway Passenger Depot in downtown Fayetteville will soon look new again. It will become the Fayetteville Area Transportation Museum and Visitor Center. Through grants, efforts are underway to restore the depot back to its original condition. Architects were able to peel off the many layers inside the building and expose its original fabric. "We found good evidence of detailed artwork and woodwork that was on the building when it was built," special projects director Craig Hampton said. "Based on that, we'll be able to recreate the design back to its original condition." The city hopes to open the museum in conjunction with Festival of Flight 2003. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00C0C9E94081D5119E5200508BB9051DF42E94_@_mail1.itochu.com> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:55:05 -0500 From: James Dent / NYKGN Subject: (rshsdepot) Tiles in NYC Subway Stations The following article from the NY Times is old news to RSHS Bulletin readers, but for the rest... March 24, 2002 Time and Tile By ED BOLAND JR. Question: Why are the walls of New York subway stations covered in ceramic tile? To even the most amateur acoustician, this seems a likely material to worsen already noisy conditions. Answer: That may well be, but the benefits of using ceramic tiles on the walls of a subway station would seem to outweigh the strain that the rumble of a train pulling into a station puts on your eardrums. Tiles have been in the city's subway system almost as long as the subway itself (portions of the current system opened in 1904), and for good reason. Aside from being fireproof, lightweight and durable, tile is one of the easiest materials to clean. "You need a cleanable surface in case of graffiti or defacement," says Deirdre Parker, a spokeswoman for New York City Transit. But the tiles serve a far more important role, one that riders are familiar with, if only subconsciously. The first Rapid Transit Commission Contract of 1900 asked that the railway and its equipment "constitute a great public work." "All parts of the structure where exposed shall therefore be designed, constructed and maintained with a view to the beauty of their appearance as well as efficiency," the contract stated. Since the city was not about to spend the time or money to build its stations in marble, tile was a logical choice, because artisans could use it to create beautiful patterns and mosaics. Much of the early tile work in New York stations was done by the Guastavino Fireproof Construction Company, whose tile work can also be found in the Oyster Bar of Grand Central Terminal, Ellis Island, the Cathedral Church of St. John the Divine and the restaurant Guastavino in the Bridgemarket under the Manhattan end of the Queensboro Bridge. Tiles and the subway are now so synonymous that home design stores, like Krup's Kitchen and Bath on West 18th Street, sell glossy white "subway tile." ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #328 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:18:45 -0500 From: "Binck, Chris" Subject: (rshsdepot) Info on east coast of Florida stations Looking to get information on the stations that are or used to be in the cities where the new (?maybe?) Amtrak service on the FEC will be. (JAX, Sta Augustine, Daytona Beach, Titusville, Cocoa, Melbourne, VeroBEach, Ft Pierce, Stuart, WPB. Any good sources for this avilable on the web? ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3CA3C5A4.4050600_@_bellsouth.net> References: Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:38:44 -0500 From: Seth Bramson Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Info on east coast of Florida stations Binck, Chris wrote: >Looking to get information on the stations that are or used to be in the >cities where the new (?maybe?) Amtrak service on the FEC will be. (JAX, Sta >Augustine, Daytona Beach, Titusville, Cocoa, Melbourne, VeroBEach, Ft >Pierce, Stuart, WPB. > >Any good sources for this avilable on the web? > >>>Gee, none that I can think of. Do any of you know of any? Oh! Me? Why, what a surprise! > > > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001601c1d6d0$1b1e5980$fe805043_@_JimDent> References: Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:16:23 -0500 From: Jim Dent Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Info on east coast of Florida stations Chris, Besides the redoubtable Mr. Bramson, who has not yet taken the opportunity on this list to blow his horn amount his FEC book reprint, you can also go to the RSHS database for Florida (http://www.rrshs.org/Florida/flrrstruc.htm) and browse away. Now - I 'm waiting for that horn. Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Binck, Chris" To: "'rshsdepot_@_lists.Railfan.net'" Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:18 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Info on east coast of Florida stations > Looking to get information on the stations that are or used to be in the > cities where the new (?maybe?) Amtrak service on the FEC will be. (JAX, Sta > Augustine, Daytona Beach, Titusville, Cocoa, Melbourne, VeroBEach, Ft > Pierce, Stuart, WPB. > > Any good sources for this avilable on the web? > > > ================================= > The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing > railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3CA3E1C5.9080706_@_bellsouth.net> References: <001601c1d6d0$1b1e5980$fe805043@JimDent> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:38:45 -0500 From: Seth Bramson Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Info on east coast of Florida stations Jim Dent wrote: >Chris, > >Besides the redoubtable Mr. Bramson, who has not yet taken the opportunity >on this list to blow his horn amount his FEC book reprint, you can also go >to the RSHS database for Florida >(http://www.rrshs.org/Florida/flrrstruc.htm) and browse away. > >Now - I 'm waiting for that horn. > >>>Many thanks, Jim. That was VERY nice of you and very much appreciated. Here's the latest, folks: I am awaiting the final proofs. If all goes well, "The Revised and Enlarged Edition of Speedway to Sunshine: The Story of the Florida East Coast Railway" will be out on or about 1 May. It has 32 more pp (352) and four more chapters (16) than the original and brings us up to date through the Amtrak--FEC special train of last June. The published has increased the press run to "between 4 and 5,000" (I expect it to be the latter) and we expect sellout and to "out of print" status within not too much more than a month of publication. (the first Speedway was published in December, '84 and was out of print by August '85, and that was pre web, pre internet, pre FEC H. S., pre national interest in our quirky little local road. [I mean, what was the big deal about building to Key West, the greatest single railroad construction/engineering project in US--and possibly world--history?] ) As you may know, "Speedway to Sunshine" is the single most requested railroad history book on the internet. (Yes, I am proud of that, but I am far more humbled then I am proud, and I thank so many of you for your interest in our little road as well as the book.) Although the price of Speedway I has gone down since the announcement of II being imminent, I expect the price of II to begin to increase as soon as sellout occurs. Incredibly, it is coming out at $39.95, HARD COVER, beautiful new dust jacket, which is $5.00 less than I was upon publication. You can order it (if so inclined, and I hope some of you are) from this writer; from the publisher, books_@_bostonmillspress.com; from barnes&noble.com; from Amazon.com OR from your local hobby shop or railroad book dealer. Thank you again, and, if you do decide to favor us with a purchase, I hope and trust you will enjoy reading about "Your Friendly Florida Line." > > > > > >> ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00aa01c1d6dd$d1a2abe0$5e14fe3f_@_oemcomputer> References: <001601c1d6d0$1b1e5980$fe805043@JimDent> <3CA3E1C5.9080706@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:43:53 -0500 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Info on east coast of Florida stations Even given the opportunity, Bramson won't blow his horn loud enough. I was just delighted to make his acquaintance on this list, because it reminded me that all the way back 30 and more years ago, the fine-print classified ads in the back of "Trains", every single month, would always start with "Seth Bramson buys anything FEC, anything Florida . . . " Imagine what he's collected by now, starting before it ever even occurred to most of the rest of us; imagine what he's got in that book. Next time I'm in Florida, he better let me tour the barn, or gymnasium, or aircraft hanger, which he must need for all that stuff -- meanwhile, I'm gonna buy his book, and I'm also gonna admit that in return for saying all this (unsolicited) nice stuff about him, I'm gonna send him an off-list note saying he better autograph it for me . . . - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seth Bramson" To: Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:38 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Info on east coast of Florida stations > >on this list to blow his horn amount his FEC book reprint, you can also go > >to the RSHS database for Florida > >(http://www.rrshs.org/Florida/flrrstruc.htm) and browse away. > > > >Now - I 'm waiting for that horn. > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #329 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002501c1d713$a2e40ed0$9865fea9_@_Wagenblast> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:19:47 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Tucson, AZ Photo Links: http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/local/images/3_28_02depot2.jpg (1925 view of depot) http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/local/images/3_28_02depot3.jpg (1997 view) Old depot now on track for major renovation Mayor Walkup and other dignitaries kick off a $26 million downtown development effort. PAUL L. ALLEN Tucson Citizen March 28, 2002 More than 300 onlookers applauded yesterday as Mayor Bob Walkup gingerly hauled back on a bulldozer's control lever and knocked down a block wall, a symbolic gesture that launched a renovation project that will breathe new life into Tucson's historic downtown railroad depot. City Councilman Fred Ronstadt admitted he was "very jealous of the mayor" because he had the fun of knocking down the wall, which was not part of the original structure. But, Ronstadt added, the project is important. "Downtown is the fabric of Tucson," he said. Using more than $7 million in Federal Transit Administration funding, the renovation project is expected to take 12 years to complete and will cost an estimated $26 million. The city acquired the depot in September 1998 for $2.1 million. It will be restored to its appearance in 1941 and will house a transportation museum. A shelter will be built for the historic steam locomotive No. 1673, on display nearby, and more than 12,000 square feet of leasing space will be available for a restaurant, shops, galleries and private offices. The depot will house offices for Amtrak, the Old Pueblo Trolley and and a future high-speed rail system. It will comprise the eastern end of the Rio Nuevo Project and serve as a gateway to the project's entertainment complex. Other aspects of the project include the demolition of the City Hall Annex to allow for a parking garage and retail space; demolition of the McGuire's Jewelers building and the Greyhound Bus Station, to allow for plaza space; and improvements to spur track and platform to enhance access to trains. U.S. Rep. Ed Pastor, in Tucson for the ceremony, followed Walkup at the controls of the bulldozer. "My daddy sent me to college so I wouldn't have to do this kind of work," said the Phoenix Democrat, whose district includes part of Tucson. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3CA4679A.3070502_@_bellsouth.net> References: <001601c1d6d0$1b1e5980$fe805043@JimDent> <3CA3E1C5.9080706@bellsouth.net> <00aa01c1d6dd$d1a2abe0$5e14fe3f@oemcomputer> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:09:46 -0500 From: Seth Bramson Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Info on east coast of Florida stations Steven Delibert wrote: >Even given the opportunity, Bramson won't blow his horn loud enough. I was >just delighted to make his acquaintance on this list, because it reminded me that all the way back 30 and more years ago, the fine-print classified ads in the back of "Trains", every single month, would always start with "Seth Bramson buys anything FEC, anything Florida . . . " Imagine what he's collected by now, starting before it ever even occurred to most of the rest of us; imagine what he's got in that book. Next time I'm in Florida, he better let me tour the barn, or gymnasium, or aircraft hanger, which he must need for all that stuff -- meanwhile, I'm gonna buy his book, and I'm also gonna admit that in return for saying all this (unsolicited) nice stuff about him, I'm gonna send him an off-list note saying he better autograph it for me . . . > >>>It will be an honor, a pleasure and a privilege. (I hope you all know that not only is Steve the President of the U & D Historical Society but he has been instrumental--and in some cases, pivotal--in saving several former U & D buildings). And, of course, everybody on this list is welcome anytime you are in the vile wild of nawth Cuber to come and see our modest collection, just call us first @ (305) 757-1016. > ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00C0C9E94081D5119E5200508BB9051DF42E9D_@_mail1.itochu.com> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:35:21 -0500 From: James Dent / NYKGN Subject: (rshsdepot) McGregor, TX From the Waco Tribune... McGregor losing options to renovate depot By AUDREY GARZA Tribune-Herald staff writer The McGregor Amtrak Depot will have to wait until it can be brought up to safe standards. McGregor Community Development Coordinator Jennifer Taylor told the city council that McGregor was denied on a couple of recent grant applications that would allow for repairs on the depot. Taylor said the city did not get a $1.2 million grant from the Texas Department of Transportation for the Amtrak Depot, which would have paid for complete renovation of the depot, landscaping and a walkway from the depot to downtown. The community development corporation then decided to downsize the project and will apply for a $1 million grant with the transportation department. However, it was turned down for that grant as well. Texas Transportation Commissioners John W. Johnson, Robert Nichols and Ric Williamson ultimately decide which city entities get grants. "We don't know what we're going to do now because that was really our big hope," said Taylor. "I don't know if we're going to pursue it anymore." She said hand rails also are needed as protection for visitors and children. "It's in really horrid shape right now," she said. Besides repairing the roof, Taylor said the community development board had planned to put in a museum, waiting area, meeting room, office space and some kind of veterans or war memorial. "It was pretty much going to be redone," Taylor said. She said some of the depot would have remained in its original form for historical reasons. The depot was built in 1904. Taylor said the board hoped it would get the grant and have all the renovations finished in 2004 and have a 100-year celebration "We're disappointed," she said. "We don't have any other options right now." Taylor said some of the ideas for the renovations were from the Amtrak depot in Temple, which was refurbished and completed in the summer of 2000. The Amtrak train runs northbound from the McGregor depot on Sundays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays to Fort Worth, Dallas, Longview, Texarkana, Little Rock, St. Louis and Chicago. It runs southbound on Sundays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays to Temple, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso and Los Angeles. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00C0C9E94081D5119E5200508BB9051DF42EA0_@_mail1.itochu.com> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:49:08 -0500 From: James Dent / NYKGN Subject: (rshsdepot) Kemper Street Station, Lynchburg, VA From the Trainorders.com forum... The City of Lynchburg is holding their GRAND OPENING for the renovated Kemper Street Station on Friday, April 26, 2002 from 4 =96 8PM. This is = the former Southern Railway station built in 1912. Since the renovations, = the Amtrak waiting room was moved to track level with a community room, and Greyhound took over the street level waiting room and ticket office.=20 For the GRAND OPENING there will be entertainment, food, music, and = much more. It=92s free to the public.=20 Galen Wright=20 Lynchburg, VA ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003701c1d767$9770a5f0$9865fea9_@_Wagenblast> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:20:46 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Fort White, FL Photo link: http://www.lakecityreporter.com/news/photos/020328n2.jpg (station being moved) Station rolls back into town By SAMANTHA SINCLAIR ssinclair_@_lakecityreporter.com Lake City Reporter March 28, 2002 FORT WHITE A former focal point of this town along the Ichetucknee River has been brought back to be a new community centerpiece. On Wednesday morning, a handful of residents watched as a truck carried the small more-than-a-century-old train station to its original location on U.S. 27, just west of State Road 47. "The train station used to sit right there," said Gary Wilbur, president of the Fort White Area Chamber of Commerce, as the truck backed the old building to the spot across the street from the B&B gas station. "We're hoping this will become a nice focal point for the Fort White area." The building primarily will be a trail head for the O'Leno-to-Ichetucknee bike trail, Tourist Development Director Harvey Campbell said. Once refurbished, it also will house a museum, welcome center and possibly the chamber of commerce. "It will be kind of an all-around use building," Wilbur said. "I think it's a tremendous investment," Campbell said, adding the structure would certainly be listed on the National Register of Historic Buildings. According to Fort White Historical Society President Joan Shelton, the railroad was brought to the area in 1888, and the train station was probably built sometime between 1886 and 1888. She said Fort White was important because the train station made it a hub for people from Lake City and surrounding areas to ship produce and crops to other areas. In the early 1980s, the train station discontinued service. "That's when Fort White started to decline, when the railroad went out," Shelton said. Wilbur said the building was purchased in 1982 by a Branford man who transported the building to his feed mill farm. About 8-9 months ago, the man approached the town officials to see if they were interested in purchasing the building, and with the chamber's urging, the town bought back the train station. The original asking price for the building was $35,000, but the amount was reduced to $10,000. "Because it was going back to Fort White where it originally came from, he dropped the price," Wilbur said. To move the building back to Fort White, the cost was another $10,000. Wilbur said another $5,000 has been reserved for the project and will be used to add a fence, patch the roof and secure the area. About another $150,000 will be needed to refurbish the building, including installing a parking lot. Wilbur said the town and the chamber would be looking for private donations, as well as grants to pay for the remainder of the project, which should be complete in 12-18 months. "It's been a fun project and we still have a long way to go, of course," Wilbur said. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004b01c1d78d$6f42e4a0$4866f6d1_@_paul> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:51:22 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Fort White, FL This is a nice story. Sometimes it would be neat if someone would follow up a message with a more detailed (railroad_ history of the station in question, such as original railroad name, the various trains that stopped at or passed by the station in the past...it seems it may have been on the Chicago to Florida Amtrak and perhaps the end was when they stopped that train, was it early 80's...are the rails gone? what railroads owned, ran and still run maybe those tracks.......the population of the town, why it is called fort White, I guess whatever one knows....at least about Fort White this time I guess.... Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Wagenblast To: Rail Depot List Date: Friday, March 29, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Fort White, FL Photo link: http://www.lakecityreporter.com/news/photos/020328n2.jpg (station being moved) Station rolls back into town By SAMANTHA SINCLAIR ssinclair_@_lakecityreporter.com Lake City Reporter March 28, 2002 FORT WHITE A former focal point of this town along the Ichetucknee River has been brought back to be a new community centerpiece. On Wednesday morning, a handful of residents watched as a truck carried the small more-than-a-century-old train station to its original location on U.S. 27, just west of State Road 47. "The train station used to sit right there," said Gary Wilbur, president of the Fort White Area Chamber of Commerce, as the truck backed the old building to the spot across the street from the B&B gas station. "We're hoping this will become a nice focal point for the Fort White area." The building primarily will be a trail head for the O'Leno-to-Ichetucknee bike trail, Tourist Development Director Harvey Campbell said. Once refurbished, it also will house a museum, welcome center and possibly the chamber of commerce. "It will be kind of an all-around use building," Wilbur said. "I think it's a tremendous investment," Campbell said, adding the structure would certainly be listed on the National Register of Historic Buildings. According to Fort White Historical Society President Joan Shelton, the railroad was brought to the area in 1888, and the train station was probably built sometime between 1886 and 1888. She said Fort White was important because the train station made it a hub for people from Lake City and surrounding areas to ship produce and crops to other areas. In the early 1980s, the train station discontinued service. "That's when Fort White started to decline, when the railroad went out," Shelton said. Wilbur said the building was purchased in 1982 by a Branford man who transported the building to his feed mill farm. About 8-9 months ago, the man approached the town officials to see if they were interested in purchasing the building, and with the chamber's urging, the town bought back the train station. The original asking price for the building was $35,000, but the amount was reduced to $10,000. "Because it was going back to Fort White where it originally came from, he dropped the price," Wilbur said. To move the building back to Fort White, the cost was another $10,000. Wilbur said another $5,000 has been reserved for the project and will be used to add a fence, patch the roof and secure the area. About another $150,000 will be needed to refurbish the building, including installing a parking lot. Wilbur said the town and the chamber would be looking for private donations, as well as grants to pay for the remainder of the project, which should be complete in 12-18 months. "It's been a fun project and we still have a long way to go, of course," Wilbur said. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #330 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000701c1d7ea$11a2b700$9865fea9_@_Wagenblast> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:54:45 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Palmer, AK Photo: http://my.ohio.voyager.net/~combs/arr/route-map/cities/palmer/MM-palmer.jpg Work under way on old Palmer depot By SCOTT CHRISTIANSEN-Frontiersman reporter PALMER -- Work is under way on the $180,000 facelift at the old Palmer railroad depot and city council members took a keen interest in the project during a report from public works director Rick Koch at the council's Tuesday meeting. The railroad depot has a history of renovation and for the past three decades has served as Palmer's community center. The original building was the depot manager's apartment and an office and the large room that now serves as a great hall for community functions was once a warehouse. This latest facelift will convert much of the passenger waiting area to accommodate larger bathrooms, make acoustic improvements to the great hall and add windows that can be opened to let heat escape. The council's attention was focused mostly on the great hall and on access to the building. The city has contributed $70,000 to the project and the state of Alaska has contributed $110,000. Among the suggestions at the meeting were adding a storage room for folding chairs and tables, changing the roof so ice doesn't build up at entrances and hiding the exposed electrical conduit in the walls. Council member Brad Hanson suggested that Koch get more estimates while the project is under way, and even suggested that the city should consider spending more money. "If it costs $20,000 or $30,000 more we need to do it . . . We need to do it right this time," Hanson said. Mayor Jim Cooper wanted to know if anything was going to be done about storing chairs and tables and if anything would be done about ice dams that build up over the entrances and drip down to ice up the doorways. "We don't have any specific plans, but we do recognize that [the ice] is a problem," Koch said, adding that a heat tape and gutter arrangement might make a difference, but that structural changes to the eaves of the roof, such as adding insulation, are probably out of the question. Improvements that aren't in the contract could be done later with the public works maintenance budget, Koch said. Since the project's inception, the council has talked about the depot remodel as a quality-of-life improvement for Palmer. After the meeting, Koch said he expected the council to be interested and involved. "There's probably a million dollars worth of stuff you could do to make it nicer -- the bottom line is that once we get done, everyone will be happy with the improvements," Koch said. Another person who's excited about the job is Joey Ehmann. Ehmann and his brother, Butch, own E & E Construction, the company remodeling the building for the city. "It's an old building that I spent a lot of time in growing up," Ehmann said, "It's not a big job, but we're excited to be doing the work." E & E Construction isn't primarily a remodeler, but the company was responsible for the remodel of the Koslosky building in downtown where the Ehmanns -- and most of the council members -- once shopped for back-to-school clothes as children. "It's kind of neat to be able to go back into a building and keep it alive," Ehmann said. At the end of the meeting, Cooper requested that interested council members pitch in with suggestions for a grand opening for the depot either during Palmer Pride Days or Colony Days. ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:17:21 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Mark A. Thomas" Subject: (rshsdepot) re: McGregor, Texas NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo mcgregor1.jpg (image/jpeg, 149098 bytes) mcgregor2.jpg (image/jpeg, 110408 bytes) mcgregor3.jpg (image/jpeg, 181017 bytes) Here are some photos of the McGregor, TX, depot mentioned in a previous post. Taken August 7, 1983. The track along the sunny side is the Santa Fe main line from Fort Worth to Temple and Galveston. The track along the shady side is an old Cotton Belt line from Corsicana, down through Waco, through McGregor and Gatesville, to Hamilton, and then forking to Comanche and to Stephenville (both on the old Ft. Worth & Rio Grande, owned by Frisco and later Santa Fe). Don't know how much of this is still around. It didn't even make it to Gatesville in the 80s (Gatesville station was in a Wal-Mart parking lot) and I know hasn't go as far as McGregor in a few years. - --Mark Thomas, markt_@_duke.edu ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #331 ******************************* ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org