From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C5935E4.10700_@_bellsouth.net> References: <005901c1aa0f$35618760$535cf6d1_@_paul> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:17:40 -0500 From: Seth Bramson Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) At Grand Canyon, No Way to Run a Railroad Paul S. Luchter wrote: >When Ochs first took over the Times in 1894 he came up with that slogan, at >the time it was the first penny post to not openly make up the news and that >was what made it big....they had a contest for a better slogan but the >winner was some complex couplet about not a paper for scandal... >Before he took over the Times it's slogan was about how it didn't soil the >linen, because its printing didn't smear.... > >Actually usually a Times article buries the truth in an article after it >continues inside, way at the end, sometimes contradicting the headline.... > >Exact slogans on request (I have to search) > >>>Thank you. (The EXACT slogan was: "All the news that's fit to print." MAD's parody was: "All the news that fits we print.!") > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3d.187c0a38.298ac2ef_@_aol.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:55:27 EST From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Re: At Grand Canyon, No Way to Run a Railroad In a message dated 1/31/02 3:25:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, tomfassett_@_earthlink.net writes: > Ah, hiking the canyon is a whole different animal... Relatives of mine hike > the canyon at least once a year. As I said, park "insiders" who know the > ropes do have their privileges (I just don't agree with it)... Even then, > the percentage of people hiking the canyon as opposed to just visiting is > miniscule That is undoubtedly true. I know that this is slightly off-topic, but I'm one of those few who have hiked down to the bottom of the canyon. Indeed, if I recall correctly, I've hiked to the bottom seven times, including the South Kaibab, Bright Angel, Hermit and North Kaibab Trails. How many others on this list have done that? Mandatory railroad content: Unfortunately, I've never taken the train to the canyon. My first trip to the Canyon was in 1966, when the Santa Fe Railroad was still running a daily train to the canyon. We traveled by train on that trip, but the one daily train from Williams to the Grand Canyon did not connect with The Chief, which we took, so we had to take a bus for the last leg of the journey to the canyon. But I do remember seeing the Santa Fe train at the depot -- including an ancient heavyweight car which, I think, was attached just for the Williams-Grand Canyon run. On subsequent visits, I watched the trees grow where the tracks used to be. Then, in the 1990s, I had the pleasure of seeing the Grand Canyon Railroad trains arrive. In fact, on my 1997 trip, I arranged to meet neighbors of mine who were arriving by train when I was there. Maybe I'll finally have a chance to ride the Grand Canyon Railroad this summer, as I hope to attend the NRHS convention that is centered in Williams. Daniel Chazin ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:27:23 -0500 (EST) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: (rshsdepot) @home address changes I know there are a number of @home list members who are receiving new email addresses because @home no longer serves their area. If you drop me an email with the old address and new address and whether you are on the regular or digest list I'll be happy to change it over for you. For those who wish to take care of it on their own: To subscribe to the list, send one line in the body of an email message to majordomo_@_lists.Railfan.net with the word subscribe followed by the listname, eg: subscribe rshsdepot Or for the Digest version of the list: subscribe rshsdepot-digest To unsubscribe to a list follow the same instructions as for subscribing, but replace the word subscribe with the word unsubscribe, eg: unsubscribe rshsdepot Or for the Digest version of the list: unsubscribe rshsdepot-digest Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002601c1aaaf$9243cc40$4364f4d1_@_paul> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:32:34 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Re: At Grand Canyon, No Way to Run a Railroad I bet hiking back up is even harder! - -----Original Message----- From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net ; Rhkratzse_@_aol.com Cc: All_Aboard_@_yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:10 AM Subject: (rshsdepot) Re: At Grand Canyon, No Way to Run a Railroad >In a message dated 1/31/02 3:25:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, >tomfassett_@_earthlink.net writes: > >> Ah, hiking the canyon is a whole different animal... Relatives of mine hike >> the canyon at least once a year. As I said, park "insiders" who know the >> ropes do have their privileges (I just don't agree with it)... Even then, >> the percentage of people hiking the canyon as opposed to just visiting is >> miniscule > > That is undoubtedly true. I know that this is slightly off-topic, but >I'm one of those few who have hiked down to the bottom of the canyon. >Indeed, if I recall correctly, I've hiked to the bottom seven times, >including the South Kaibab, Bright Angel, Hermit and North Kaibab Trails. >How many others on this list have done that? > > Mandatory railroad content: Unfortunately, I've never taken the train >to the canyon. My first trip to the Canyon was in 1966, when the Santa Fe >Railroad was still running a daily train to the canyon. We traveled by train >on that trip, but the one daily train from Williams to the Grand Canyon did >not connect with The Chief, which we took, so we had to take a bus for the >last leg of the journey to the canyon. But I do remember seeing the Santa Fe >train at the depot -- including an ancient heavyweight car which, I think, >was attached just for the Williams-Grand Canyon run. > > On subsequent visits, I watched the trees grow where the tracks used >to be. Then, in the 1990s, I had the pleasure of seeing the Grand Canyon >Railroad trains arrive. In fact, on my 1997 trip, I arranged to meet >neighbors of mine who were arriving by train when I was there. > > Maybe I'll finally have a chance to ride the Grand Canyon Railroad >this summer, as I hope to attend the NRHS convention that is centered in >Williams. > > Daniel Chazin > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #274 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002801c1ab16$ef75f5c0$49f82444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 06:52:32 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Mount Joy, PA Mount Joy seeks state, county funding for train station project Intelligencer Journal 1-30-02 Mount Joy Borough is seeking $430,000 from the state Department of Transportation in the next two years to begin work on a new train station. Also, borough council has requested that $215,000 be added to the Lancaster County Transportation Improvement Plan for 2003 and 2004. This would allow for the release of state funds to the project, which would serve as a passenger train station, bus depot and taxi service pick-up point. The plan would relocate the station from South Market and Henry streets to the corner of South Barbara and East Donegal streets. It would include a pedestrian bridge across the tracks, a raised platform at the tracks with ramps to street level, enclosures on both platforms and an informational area with bus and train schedules, according to a feasibility study released by the borough. Ultimately, the new station would even include a retail establishment. "We'd like to have something that would cater to the passengers," said Mount Joy Borough Manager Terry Kauffman. He suggested a coffee shop or newsstand as two possibilities. The current station, which is used daily by about 40 passengers, is not accessible to disabled riders. The Americans with Disabilities Act, passed in 1990, requires all such facilities comply or be closed by 2010. The borough and surrounding municipalities are concerned Amtrak will close the station rather than renovate it. Total cost of the plan is estimated at $2.2 million, with 80 percent coming from the state and 20 percent being funded by the borough, surrounding municipalities and Amtrak, according to the study. The station is scheduled for completion in 2006. The new station could be tied to plans for Amtrak stations in Paradise and Elizabethtown under the Lancaster County Transportation Authority. This could save money on engineering and construction costs, said Kauffman, who is also director of the authority. The borough also could oversee the construction by itself. Kauffman said, "If this is included, council will have to determine how to move the funds." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:50:59 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Mark A. Thomas" Subject: (rshsdepot) Portsmouth, OH In the latest issue of the Bulletin of the RSHS (Nov-Dec 2001, Vol 34, no. 6) on page 87, the N&W station at the top of the page is, of course, from Portsmouth, Ohio, not Virginia. It has a nice southern exposure great for photographing. - --Mark, markt_@_duke.edu ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000d01c1ab4c$c15f5880$49f82444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 13:17:47 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Everett, WA Everett Station gets ready to roll Monday By Theresa Goffredo Herald Writer EVERETT -- A year and a half after turning dirt on the new Everett Station and proclaiming it a model for future transit centers, Gov. Gary Locke returns Monday to participate in the station's grand opening ceremony. U.S. Rep. Rick Larsen and other dignitaries will join Locke. The governor's visit symbolizes the special place the station will hold as a city landmark, but also gives the governor an opportunity to spotlight the importance of mass transit as a way to ease the traffic woes of the Puget Sound region. Locke is expected to be joined by hundreds of spectators who will view for the first time the completed transit hub. The grand opening ceremony starts at 11 a.m. Monday at 3201 Smith Ave. Everett Mayor Ed Hansen will be master of ceremonies. An open house will continue until 7 p.m. Although the 64,000-square-foot brick-and-glass building with a copper-tiled roof brings beauty to Everett's otherwise plain industrial sector, the basic goal of the station is to provide commuters with a conveniently located mass transit center. "The new facility goes a long way toward smoothing out those transportation wrinkles in Everett by making it easier to use public transportation," city spokeswoman Dale Preboski said. The station will provide long-distance, commuter and local bus service, an airport shuttle, taxi service, bicycle racks and 746 parking stalls for park-and-ride commuters. Rail riders will join bus commuters this summer when Amtrak begins service. Sound Transit's commuter rail, the Sounder, is expected to arrive in late 2003. Frequent Everett Transit shuttle bus service, costing 25 cents a ride, will take travelers downtown in less than five minutes. The station also will bring a first-ever offering of upper-level university night classes, as five state colleges set up classrooms on the second floor. And for those looking for career development, WorkSource Everett will become a tenant in April. Conceptual work for the transportation center began nearly 10 years ago. The station cost $26 million to build, the money collected through a combination of state, federal, local and private funds, including $4 million in grants from the state Transportation Improvement Board. The cost of buying the land and clearing the site brought the total price tag to $44 million. On Jan. 16, the Everett City Council decided to keep management of the station local and authorized a $2 million, three-year contract with Coast Real Estate Services. Everett brothers Tom and Shawn Hoban founded Coast Real Estate in 1987. They plan to manage the station in the spirit with which it was built -- as a gateway into Everett. "Our approach to managing this facility will be with this vision in mind," Tom Hoban said. SIDEBARS: Feeling lucky? Visitors to the Monday grand opening of Everett Station will find out how lucky they are by playing the count-the-bricks contest. Visitors get to guess at the number of bricks on the exterior of the four-story building. Prizes include: Amtrak Empire Builder round-trip ticket for two from Everett or Seattle to Whitefish, Mont. Amtrak Cascades roundtrip ticket for two from Everett or Seattle to Vancouver, British Columbia, with a one-night hotel stay and a $50 certificate for dinner. Two separate Amtrak Cascades round-trip packages for two from Everett or Seattle to Vancouver with a one-night hotel stay. Two tickets to a Village Theatre performance and a one-night hotel stay. Four tickets to a Pied Piper performance and one-night hotel stay for four. Two Greyhound Ameripass tickets valid for up to seven days of travel anywhere in the United States. Three separate Puget Pass monthly bus pass certificates for March. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Did you know? You may know that the grand opening of the new Everett Station starts at 11 a.m. Monday at 3201 Smith Ave. But did you know: There is more than 750,000 feet of wiring and cable inside Everett Station. It took more than 7,600 copper shingles to complete the roof. More than 3,000 light bulbs illuminate the station. More than 800 people were involved with building the station, including planning, design and construction. The precast arch in the inside center of the station weighs 34,000 pounds, or 17 tons. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002001c1ab51$eddbf300$49f82444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 13:54:50 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Cleburne, TX Doomed depot set to fall Monday By: Brian Wilson, Times-Review Writer January 31, 2002 Questions of fairness arise on both sides CLEBURNE-The time line of events in the fight over the future of the old train depot was released because city officials believed they were being criticized by the media without all the facts being known, City Manager Chester Nolen said. The time line, which began with the 1972 purchase of the Texas & Brazos Valley Railroad Depot by Dan Leach, was published in Monday's Times-Review. The building is expected to be demolished this coming Monday morning, and officials wanted people to realize how much the city did over the years to give owners a chance to rebuild it. The depot burned in 1986, and according to the city, owners have been given numerous chances to repair it. Businessman Dan Roberts, who bought the building in 1999, still believes there are problems with how the city has treated him. He thinks the city was unfair to him after he agreed to make repairs within 90 days. Roberts said he fixed all but the roof and was told by the former fire chief it would pass muster. He assumed everything was acceptable after not hearing from the city for months. According to Roberts, he tried to get a building permit last October, and heard for the first time there was a condemnation order on the building. Roberts doesn't understand why the process has taken so long. He believes the city should have kept him better informed. "They gave me the impression that everything was fine, no problems," he said. He said city officials told him they couldn't find him-something else he doesn't understand. "Well, Dan Roberts is not that hard to find," he said. "I'm the biggest agitator in town, aren't I?" City Manager Chester Nolen wouldn't say if he believes the city has been treated unfairly by various media accounts of the depot. "We've done what we were required to do by the Building & Standards Commission, and we'll just leave it at that," Nolen said. The building is expected to be demolished Monday morning. Opponents of that demolition have planned a rally for 10 a.m. Saturday. Roberts wants to build a railroad museum, adding on to the original structure. He said he will rebuild the depot to its original appearance and has not ruled out selling it to the corporation overseeing the expenditure of the 4B sales tax. A railroad museum is one of several projects to be built with the "quality of life" sales tax. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00b001c1ab58$3ce1fe80$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> References: Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:40:00 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Portsmouth, OH I didn't even get my copy yet! Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark A. Thomas" To: Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 12:50 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Portsmouth, OH In the latest issue of the Bulletin of the RSHS (Nov-Dec 2001, Vol 34, no. 6) on page 87, the N&W station at the top of the page is, of course, from Portsmouth, Ohio, not Virginia. It has a nice southern exposure great for photographing. - --Mark, markt_@_duke.edu ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <011801c1aae8$84eacec0$823ffea9_@_pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:20:17 -0800 From: irene reinsdorf Subject: (rshsdepot) Trolley Drawing Thought you would like to know.....The drawing from The Brooklyn Times showing a trolley car at a street with islands in the middle is not at Beverly (in reality spelled Beverley) Road but, rather at Albemarle Road. Beverley Road would be the next block south, down to the left, out of the picture. Beverley Road would mark would mark the southern boundary of the Prospect Park South development, which, incidentally still exists. The trolley car line would become the open cut of the BMT Brighton Beach Line. I grew up on this street (1701) from 1944 to 1962 and am familiar with the history of the area. The house in the background was known as the Ex-Lax House since the owner, or a company executive, lived there. It was vacant for as long as I know and after a number of arsons by out-of-the-neighborhood toughs, it was torn down about 1954. From what I understand, the land was tied up and remains a fenced-off vacant lot to this day. Thank you for posting the picture. I found it to be quite meaningful. Keith A. Reinsdorf mailto:irene4re_@_pacbell.net ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <018001c1ab6c$ec02aae0$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 17:08:04 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Mountain View CA - New Southern Pacific Depot From Altamont Press Newsline... New Southern Pacific Depot Construction began Jan28, on the first new Southern Pacific plan Number 18 depot building to be erected since the design was phased out over 100 years ago. The historic replica is the final element of the intermodal transit center in Mountain View CA, on the Caltrain regional rail line between San Francisco and San Jose. Valley Transit Authority buses, light rail, industry shuttles, and the Caltrain regional rail successor to Southern Pacific's commute service converge at a key node of Silicon Valley commerce. After years of debate over conceptual sketches, planning, and final accumulation of funding from multiple government agencies, a "historically accurate Southern Pacific Victorian depot building" was adopted as the centerpiece of the plaza at the foot of Mountain View's central downtown artery, Castro Street. The site is approximately 300 feet north of the location of the original Number 18 depot, which fronted the Southern Pacific tracks between 1888 and 1959. Several erstwhile pseudo railroad designs were presented to the city, but emphatic vocal community sentiment from city council, historical society, and individual citizens for recreating the two story building led the architecture committee to this design. Among the most apt comments as the design was accepted was the observation that this building is ideally suited to its function as a train station. -Francis Wong ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 19:42:50 -0500 From: "Kenyon F. Karl" Subject: (rshsdepot) FW: Time for U.S. Commitment to Rail What follows must be an incredibly 'high-stakes' game of 'chicken'. Even worse, I fully expect that Warrington will loose this game, just because Congress has always been 'a day late and a dollar short' with its appropriations. :-( Kenyon F. Karl Webmaster_@_new-england-public-transit.org http://www.new-england-public-transit.org - -----Original Message----- From: NARP [mailto:narp_@_narprail.org] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:47 PM To: NARP Subject: Time for U.S. Commitment to Rail To all NARP members, February 1, 2002-- The following is a news release from NARP. - --Ross B. Capon, Executive Director For Immediate Release Friday, February 1, 2002 - #02-03 Today, Amtrak President & CEO George D. Warrington announced the layoff of 1,000 employees (700 agreement; 300 non-agreement), reduced staffing hours at 73 stations, and a number of other actions aimed at enabling Amtrak to make it to September 30, the end of the fiscal year. He said Amtrak needs a $1.2 billion appropriation for FY 2003 in order to avoid "substantial route cuts" on October 1. He told a news conference that a $521 million appropriation would mean only the Northeast Corridor "would have an opportunity to run." He indicated plans to post the legally required six months' advance notice of discontinuance on March 28 for all long-distance trains, to prepare for the possibility that Congress would not provide the needed funds. The National Association of Railroad Passengers strongly believes that the existing system is "skeletal," (to use Warrington's own words) and should be continued in its entirety. We believe that the general public - -- particularly since September 11 -- agrees with the importance of maintaining and improving our national passenger rail network, especially through cooperative federal/state investment in short-distance corridors around the nation. In December, for example, passenger-miles on Amtrak rose 3.8% while domestic aviation fell 13.2%. (On Amtrak's sleeping cars, passenger-miles rose 7% and revenues rose 13%.) The federal government this year will spend $33 billion on highways, $13 billion on aviation, but only $570 million on intercity passenger rail. Moreover, the federal government offers 80% matches to encourage states to focus their investments on highways and aviation. Federal matches to support state investments for intercity passenger rail are virtually non-existent. This "anti-rail" funding bias has helped put Amtrak in its present situation. At best, Amtrak's clear statement today may be a step toward ending the anti-rail bias in federal funding policy. It is painful to see valued employees laid off in a business that should be growing, but we understand Amtrak's decision not to seek a supplemental appropriation. Such an effort would be time-consuming, with no assurance of success, and would be a distraction from the central issue before the public: the long-term future of a connected, intercity passenger rail network. Two things should be clear regarding elimination of the long-distance network: * It would be a decision "for all time" and virtually impossible to reverse in a later, more enlightened era, and * The result would increase the cost of operating state-supported short-distance trains, which no longer would share facility costs -- or connecting passenger revenues -- with long-distance trains. # # # ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008601c1ab90$54800180$d74d9a40_@_paul> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:21:29 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Trolley Drawing Huh, I don't remember this picture, here or in the Times Paul - -----Original Message----- From: irene reinsdorf To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:05 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Trolley Drawing >Thought you would like to know.....The drawing from The Brooklyn Times showing a trolley car at a street with islands in the middle is not at Beverly (in reality spelled Beverley) Road but, rather at Albemarle Road. Beverley Road would be the next block south, down to the left, out of the picture. Beverley Road would mark would mark the southern boundary of the Prospect Park South development, which, incidentally still exists. The trolley car line would become the open cut of the BMT Brighton Beach Line. I grew up on this street (1701) from 1944 to 1962 and am familiar with the history of the area. The house in the background was known as the Ex-Lax House since the owner, or a company executive, lived there. It was vacant for as long as I know and after a number of arsons by out-of-the-neighborhood toughs, it was torn down about 1954. From what I understand, the land was tied up and remains a fenced-off vacant lot to this day. > >Thank you for posting the picture. I found it to be quite meaningful. > >Keith A. Reinsdorf >mailto:irene4re_@_pacbell.net > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005a01c1aba1$0b3fcee0$2014fe3f_@_oemcomputer> References: <008601c1ab90$54800180$d74d9a40_@_paul> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 23:14:57 -0500 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Trolley Drawing whew! thanks, Paul. I thought it was me, again . . . - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul S. Luchter" To: Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:21 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Trolley Drawing > Huh, I don't remember this picture, here or in the Times > Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: irene reinsdorf > To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net > Date: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:05 PM > Subject: (rshsdepot) Trolley Drawing > > > >Thought you would like to know.....The drawing from The Brooklyn Times > showing a trolley car at a street with islands in the middle is not at > Beverly (in reality spelled Beverley) Road but, rather at Albemarle Road. > Beverley Road would be the next block south, down to the left, out of the > picture. Beverley Road would mark would mark the southern boundary of the > Prospect Park South development, which, incidentally still exists. The > trolley car line would become the open cut of the BMT Brighton Beach Line. I > grew up on this street (1701) from 1944 to 1962 and am familiar with the > history of the area. The house in the background was known as the Ex-Lax > House since the owner, or a company executive, lived there. It was vacant > for as long as I know and after a number of arsons by > out-of-the-neighborhood toughs, it was torn down about 1954. From what I > understand, the land was tied up and remains a fenced-off vacant lot to this > day. > > > >Thank you for posting the picture. I found it to be quite meaningful. > > > >Keith A. Reinsdorf > >mailto:irene4re_@_pacbell.net > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002c01c1abc8$12da7480$311f0142_@_sprint> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 02:00:32 -0700 From: "Tom Fassett" Subject: (rshsdepot) historical railroad map of Arizona To all: I have been working on a set of historical railroad maps for Arizona. My ultimate goal is a map every 10 years but right now I am shooting for every 50 years. I have gone to some length to get the lines correct for the exact years denoted on the map. For the 1900 map I used over 200 archival bits of information (Geological Survey maps, antique maps, newspaper articles, tax claims, RR land grant filings, state surveys, etc) so I am fairly confident that the information is correct. Many lines changed right around 1900 (Atlantic & Pacific to ATSF in the 1890s, Gila Valley, Globe and Northern to Arizona Eastern in the early 1900s, etc) so I targeted the specific year of 1900 for the first map. I have the 1950 map about halfway complete, and will finish with the 2000 map. In the meanwhile, I would appreciate some feedback as to the accuracy of the inclusions on the map before I continue. My goal is to be as accurate as possible and would welcome any biographical proof to support or call into question the data detailed on the map. I am in no way a railroad history scholar and this information does not come easy for me so any input is appreciated. I am planning to do another state soon and will either do Texas or Kansas, depending on how much historical information I can wring out of all of you... :- ) As I live in Arizona it is easy for me to visit the state archives or Arizona State University archives--other states ain't so easy... Here is the Arizona index: http://railmap.railspot.com/maps/USA/AZ/arizona.html Let me know what you think. Take care, Tom ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #275 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C5BE9CA.6C3A49AB_@_attglobal.net> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 06:29:47 -0700 From: metcalf_@_attglobal.net Subject: (rshsdepot) Arizona historical railroads The Atlantic & Pacific line from Isleta NM to Topock CA didn't exactly become ATSF in 1893. It was jointly owned by the SLSF and the ATSF. In 1893 what happened was that operations were conveyed to an ATSF subsidiary, the Santa Fe Pacific. The right-of-way and the land grants became the property of the New Mexico and Arizona Land Co, a subsidiary of the SLSF. Of course, by an irony of history, the SLSF and the ATSF are once again united in the BNSF. Norm Metcalf, Boulder CO ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000701c1abf4$86b89c20$61befe3f_@_oemcomputer> References: Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 14:18:43 -0000 From: "Gene Paoli" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) FW: Time for U.S. Commitment to Rail Since about 1926 the US political machine has been hard at work trying to eliminate passenger service and I still don't understand why? Aside from the obvious fact that there is little friction with only up to a dimes worth of wheel touching the track for a miles long train, and the unbelievable fuel savings of only generating amperage as required for drawbar pulling power, there seems little reason why America would shun the railroads. Although they pay taxes, provide many public services, enjoy a passenger per seat mile percentage next to none, and usually provide first class service, the average US citizen looks the other way. The Northeast corridor has been subsidizing the rest of the AMTRAK system for years now and even this most important aspect of transportation in the US is on the chopping block. I'm sorry to say, it will take a 911 to wake up our sleeping giant and then it will be too late.... Is it really up to only rail enthusiasts to scream bloody murder? Turning over AMTRAK to Private concerns will only make matters worse and doing nothing at all, well, we all know the answer to that. If we have not seen the light by now, we never will. Gene Paoli stationman_@_prodigy.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenyon F. Karl To: Peter Griffin Cc: Norman. N. Miller ; John Rogers ; Jack Sutton ; Ed Janeway ; Bill Mosher ; Mainstlnd ; Malcolm Taylor ; Paul Chapman Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 12:42 AM Subject: (rshsdepot) FW: Time for U.S. Commitment to Rail > What follows must be an incredibly 'high-stakes' game of 'chicken'. Even > worse, I fully expect that Warrington will loose this game, just because > Congress has always been 'a day late and a dollar short' with its > appropriations. :-( > > Kenyon F. Karl > Webmaster_@_new-england-public-transit.org > http://www.new-england-public-transit.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: NARP [mailto:narp_@_narprail.org] > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:47 PM > To: NARP > Subject: Time for U.S. Commitment to Rail > > > To all NARP members, February 1, 2002-- > > The following is a news release from NARP. > > --Ross B. Capon, Executive Director > > For Immediate Release > Friday, February 1, 2002 - #02-03 > > Today, Amtrak President & CEO George D. Warrington announced the layoff > of 1,000 employees (700 agreement; 300 non-agreement), reduced staffing > hours at 73 stations, and a number of other actions aimed at enabling > Amtrak to make it to September 30, the end of the fiscal year. > > He said Amtrak needs a $1.2 billion appropriation for FY 2003 in order > to avoid "substantial route cuts" on October 1. He told a news > conference that a $521 million appropriation would mean only the > Northeast Corridor "would have an opportunity to run." He indicated > plans to post the legally required six months' advance notice of > discontinuance on March 28 for all long-distance trains, to prepare for > the possibility that Congress would not provide the needed funds. > > The National Association of Railroad Passengers strongly believes that > the existing system is "skeletal," (to use Warrington's own words) and > should be continued in its entirety. We believe that the general public > -- particularly since September 11 -- agrees with the importance of > maintaining and improving our national passenger rail network, > especially through cooperative federal/state investment in > short-distance corridors around the nation. In December, for example, > passenger-miles on Amtrak rose 3.8% while domestic aviation fell 13.2%. > (On Amtrak's sleeping cars, passenger-miles rose 7% and revenues rose > 13%.) > > The federal government this year will spend $33 billion on highways, $13 > billion on aviation, but only $570 million on intercity passenger rail. > Moreover, the federal government offers 80% matches to encourage states > to focus their investments on highways and aviation. Federal matches to > support state investments for intercity passenger rail are virtually > non-existent. > > This "anti-rail" funding bias has helped put Amtrak in its present > situation. At best, Amtrak's clear statement today may be a step toward > ending the anti-rail bias in federal funding policy. It is painful to > see valued employees laid off in a business that should be growing, but > we understand Amtrak's decision not to seek a supplemental > appropriation. Such an effort would be time-consuming, with no assurance > of success, and would be a distraction from the central issue before the > public: the long-term future of a connected, intercity passenger rail > network. > > Two things should be clear regarding elimination of the long-distance > network: > > * It would be a decision "for all time" and virtually impossible to > reverse in a later, more enlightened era, and > > * The result would increase the cost of operating state-supported > short-distance trains, which no longer would share facility costs -- or > connecting passenger revenues -- with long-distance trains. > > # # # > > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #276 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006601c1ad33$ba096600$5a4f9a40_@_paul> Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 23:23:38 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Manhattan belt way freight subway & H&M extension to Communipaw... I found two more projects never done, from 1908, unfortunately there were no maps so I didn't make copies (That decade's NY Times was low on use of graphics, I might look up other papers from then for maps) One project was for a belt line freight subway around Manhattan... The second I have a hard time understanding why it didn't happen. McAdoo I think, announced that the H&M being built to lower Manhattan, to Church Street, would have an extension from Exchange Place to the CNJ terminal in Communipaw, it said tunneling would soon start...What happened to this plan, it sounded certain it was going to happen??? Paul ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #277 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001301c1ad6e$406bd0e0$49f82444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 06:22:37 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Panama City, FL Railroad's arrival transformed Panama City (Editor's note: This is the first of two articles on the Bay Line Railroad and its depot in Panama City.) Photos: http://www.geocities.com/~ronkohlin/bayline/panamacitydepot-2.jpg http://www.geocities.com/~ronkohlin/bayline/panamacitydepot-3.jpg http://www.asab.info/pcstatn.html (1993) MARLENE WOMACK Contributing Writer - The News Herald Through the years, the Bay Line Depot has seen it all: excursionists coming to Panama City to visit Lands End, Mrs. Theodore Roosevelt arriving for a winter stay in St. Andrews, George C. Patton's troops parading and demonstrating equipment in Panama City, servicemen leaving during World War II and hurricanes washing away tracks. Now the building stands vacant and alone as preservationists attempt to save this old landmark, deeply woven in Bay County history. THE ATLANTA & ST. ANDREWS BAY RAILWAY Railroads had been chartered and promised to residents living along St. Andrew Bay since the 1880s. The Louisville & Nashville was completed from Pensacola to River Junction (Chattahoochee) in 1883. After having east-west travel available across the state, people looked forward to a railroad running south from the L&N that would provide passenger service and a faster way for shipping fish, naval stores and other products. A.B. Steele, owner of Georgia's Enterprise Lumber Co., visited St. Andrew Bay in 1904 and was impressed with the potential this section held as a seaport, especially with the Panama Canal under construction at that time. Steele's timber holdings in Pitts and Worth, Ga., were exhausted, and he attempted to purchase large tracts in this area but could not make the transactions. In need of new forest land, he began investing in timber south of Dothan, Ala., and extended his lumber company into that area. On June 23, 1905, he signed a contract to build a 30-mile railway between Dothan and Cottondale. At the same time, Steele continued trying to buy property to the south so he could extend his railroad to the bay. He also planned to eventually bring the rail line north to Atlanta. Two years after his first visit to the bay, Steele found landowners more receptive to his plans. Although shown property at Long Point, Dyers Point and other locations, Steele selected Harrison, which G.M. West of the Gulf Coast Development Co. was busy promoting with R.L. McKenzie and A.J. Gay. On Feb. 16, 1906, Steele signed a contract with them, incorporated under the laws of Alabama, to build the Atlanta & St. Andrews Bay Railway with Harrison as its terminal. Steele drew a straight line from Chicago to the Panama Canal and noticed that it passed directly over Harrison, so he renamed the town Panama City for the connection he hoped exporters would use to the canal. THE RAILROAD REACHES PANAMA CITY After a number of obstacles that involved the L&N not wanting the A.& St.A.B.R.W. to pass over its tracks, the financial panic of 1907 and severe bouts with heavy rain, Steele finally brought the first passenger train into Panama City over his 82 mile line on June 29, 1908. Blaring whistles and horns from mills and boats announced the arrival of 250 travelers who alighted from the cars to a wooden platform. From that point, they plodded their way through the deep sand to awaiting wagons and boats. Others trudged to wooden boardwalks that led to nearby hotels around Harrison Avenue. But financial problems plagued Steele. In order to complete his railroad, he borrowed funds from his friend, Asa Candler, Coca-Cola's founder, in Atlanta. When Steele died, Candler permitted Steele's son and daughter, Ben and Mrs. Alice S. Powers, to purchase the railroad from him. But when they encountered more financial difficulties, they sold it to Minor C. Keith, a successful railroad builder in Costa Rica. Mid-July found workmen filling in sand and driving rows of pilings for a 50-foot-wide dock that would permit trains to stop at the depot then pull over the water to load and unload shipments from awaiting boats and larger vessels. When completed, the depot was typical of its day with separate waiting rooms and ticket windows for blacks and whites. It also contained a baggage express room, storage area and offices. THE PINES HOTEL In 1910, the A.& St. A.B.R.W. constructed the building that would become part of the Pines Hotel, south of what is now Sixth Street and Beach Drive, facing the bay. At first, railroad officials used this $59,000 structure as a clubhouse, naming it "The Pines" for the large stand of pines that had once stood in this location. Then in 1919, the railroad enlarged and remodeled the small hotel, installing lights, heat and plumbing at a cost of about $70,000. By the time renovations were completed, The Pines ranked as Panama City's largest hotel. It looked similar to the big hotels that lined Florida's East Coast and featured 48 rooms; wide, spacious porches with rocking chairs; and gorgeous views of the bay, especially at dawn and dusk. The modernized hotel also drew raves with its large, cool dining room and screened verandah, a tile-floored kitchen containing big refrigerators, a fountain with goldfish in the courtyard and a bandstand surrounded by shrubs, trees and carefully tended lawns. A walkway led to the beach and dock. The Pines specialized in seafood and was "the place to go" in the early 1920s. In its advertisements, the hotel promoted the healing powers of the resinous pines and the advantages of inhaling pure sea air. Travelers rode the train south, then spent their vacations at The Pines. The hotel also played host to Christmas balls, dances, banquets, parties and meetings until the construction of the Cove and Dixie Sherman hotels in the late 1920s. Both The Pines and the old depot stood on property now covered by oil tanks. The ownership of the hotel was questioned in 1921, however, since remodeling costs appeared to be draining railroad funds. In a hearing, it was stated that the railroad received the land specifically for construction of terminal tracks, shops, docks, etc. - but not a hotel. In reply, representatives of the A. & St.A.B.R.W. explained that it was not the railroad but the St. Andrews Bay Lumber Co., headed by W.C. Sherman, that refurbished The Pines. Keith, owner of the railroad, had business connections with Sherman, who headed the lumber company. THE DEPOT FIRE Most large buildings were constructed of wood in the early 1900s. Fires were not unusual in Panama City and elsewhere along the Gulf Coast. Many blazes started with sparks from chimneys, flues and locomotive smokestacks. Others remained a mystery. A few even whispered that some of these fires of unknown origins were started for the insurance proceeds. About 9 p.m. on Jan. 7, 1924, a fisherman at Bryan's fish house, below the depot, discovered fire coming from the second story at the south end of the building. He ran to his boss who turned in the alarm. The flames in the dry, pitch-pine building advanced quickly, breaking through the roof. Soon, fire engulfed the whole length of the structure, giving off tremendous heat. By the time firefighters arrived, the entire inside of the depot was a mass of flames. The firemen immediately encountered problems because the 6-inch main in the street would not supply enough water. More time was lost when the hose had to be cut so the engine could haul away rail cars standing south of the platform that were in danger of catching fire. In the meantime, curious crowds gathered as huge flames shot high in the air, illuminating the sky for miles. Once the fire truck was able to park on the cleared dock and pump directly from the bay, two powerful 80-foot-long streams of salt water poured from the hoses and helped extinguish the blaze. (Next week: Rebuilding the Depot and the Pine Hotel fire.) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001901c1ad71$0a3f12e0$49f82444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 06:42:34 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Bay City, MI NOTE: There are two articles copied below. Photos: http://www.downtownbaycity.com/award/award7.jpg http://www.judnick.com/images/Michigan_BayCity_PereMarquetteStation_small.jp g (small postcard image) Sleeping beauty Pere Marquette needs renovator's kiss to awaken from decades of disuse Sunday, February 3, 2002 By Rob Clark Times Business Editor Walking through the former Pere Marquette Railroad Depot in Bay City, one can't help but wonder what the building looked like during its heyday. And it's hard not to imagine how beautiful the building could be again. Everywhere you look, there are remnants of charming touches that make the structure unique: Like the few spindles that remain on the giant curved balustrade leading to the second floor; the double row of ornamental molding that lines the ceiling; or the Chromalox thermostats that were manufactured by the Edwin L. Wiegand Co., an electric heating business founded in 1917. And then reality sets in as a thick coat of paint chips and bird droppings crunch beneath your feet and you navigate around dozens of bird carcasses scattered throughout the building. With the windows boarded up, only minimal light shines on the signs of deterioration, like gaping gashes in the walls where pipes have been exposed, a giant mound of paving bricks that once served as a chimney and stained panels filling up nonoriginal drop ceilings. It has been decades since the building was last occupied by businesses and organizations like the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway, Bay City Realty & Construction Co., United Steelworkers AFL/CIO and the Soil Conservation Service. A directory of their office locations remains stenciled into a wall on the second floor of the building and some of their record books are still piled around. Cosmetically speaking, time has taken its toll on the historic building. But structurally, the building is in good shape, according to Randy L. Case, an architect for Architecture + Design of Battle Creek. Case prepared a renovation estimate in 1997 for Clara's Restaurant Group of Lansing, which had planned to restore the depot to its original brilliance and open a restaurant. Clara's still owns the building, but is now trying to sell it for $395,000. "The building is very sound, especially the outer shell," Case said. "One of the things we did was look at areas of the building that needed to be shored up and then got those areas stabilized." Built in 1904, the depot was last used in 1969 by the Greyhound Bus Co. In June 1980 it was placed on the State Register of Historic Sites and in April 1982 was listed on the National Register of Historic Places. The construction of the 12,000-square-foot depot building reflects the dominant role railroads played as Bay City evolved from a lumber-based economy to an industrial-based economy at the turn of the century. The Flint and Pere Marquette Railroad came to Bay City in 1867 after purchasing the local Bay City and East Saginaw Railroad Co. from its local founders: land speculator and merchant A.S. Munger, Circuit Court Judge and former Lieutenant Gov. James Birney and James Fraser, manager of the Saginaw Bay Lumber Co. As the city diversified in the wake of the decline of the lumber industry, the railroad played a significant role in keeping Bay City's new products available to its markets. The construction of the new depot represented the success of that effort. The depot is a rectangular, two-story, red brick building with limestone trim and a foundation of random ashlar fieldstone. Brick piers capped with limestone separate the second-story windows on the extended entry bay and a limestone bandcourse separates the first and second floor levels. Dormers project out from the hipped roof and the first floor displays arched doors and windows and a three-sided bay. The fact that the depot's structure is sound is an important factor, according to Bryan Lijewski, architectural coordinator for the State Historic Preservation Office in Lansing. "There are different degrees of deterioration," Lijewski said. "You have to look past what you immediately see and look closely at the structure. You must determine if the structure has major deficiencies or if the problems are more cosmetic in nature. "Thirty-two years is a long time to sit vacant, but a building could sit for five years and have more major problems," Lijewski said. "Extreme deterioration is caused by leaky roofs, sinking foundations and excessive water damage. This could happen over a 32-year span, but it could also happen in one year." Case said the depot property shows no signs of such deterioration. "There was one area of concern on the second floor that was added over the first floor. It had a few spots where it wasn't solid, but that could be easily fixed and has little to do with the structure," Case said. "A building could be mothballed for many years and do just fine if the foundations and footings are solid and that's the case with this building." Even with a solid foundation, renovating the depot would mean a substantial investment. Case's grand total for the proposed Clara's renovations came in at more than $1.8 million in 1997. Gordon L. Hollister, owner of Hollister Realtors, 701 E. Vermont St., the company marketing the property, said he thinks it will cost the next owner between $1.4 million and $2.8 million to renovate the building. "It really depends on how the building is used and how much you want to do in terms of renovations, but that's a pretty good ballpark figure," Hollister said. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Old railroad depot tracks little interest Sunday, February 3, 2002 By Rob Clark Times Business Editor The former Pere Marquette Railroad Depot in downtown Bay City has a rich history, but its future is in question. Waning interest in the deteriorating property and a sale price well above the assessed value could stand in the way of the historic building ever being a viable part of the city again. "There really isn't anything that Bay City needs that would fit into that building," said Thomas L. Starkweather, vice president of the Bay City Economic Development Corp. "We have adequate office space; plenty of shopping space; ample restaurants; and enough apartments." In recent years, it has been suggested that the depot be used as a home for the local bus company, county governmental offices, a restaurant, retail space, a museum and even the central headquarters of the Bay County Library System. The 98-year-old depot is owned by Clara's Restaurant Group of Lansing, which is offering the property for $395,000. The property was assessed at $139,000 last year, giving it a cash value of about $278,000, according to the Bay City Assessor's Office. Annual taxes are about $8,900, according to the Bay County Treasurer's Office. "I think a key issue is ensuring that the sale price is more realistic. It is overpriced right now. It isn't worth close to $395,000," said Thomas L. Hickner, Bay County executive. "That is potentially a barrier to getting something done." Clara's owner Ross Simpson, who bought the building for about $200,000 in 1997, said he's not willing to do much negotiating on the sale price. At one time, Clara's had planned to convert the depot into a restaurant. A $1.8 million renovation of the building was drawn up, but never came to fruition because Clara's suffered a tremendous financial loss when a delicatessen the company opened in Battle Creek went belly up. "We are retrenching after our deli failure and we could use the cash," said Simpson. "We want to sell the depot, but would still be interested in leasing the property if another developer came in and put up the money for renovations." Clara's has no plans to develop the property, Simpson added. There are at least two private developers from Michigan who have expressed interest in buying the building since it went on the market last year, according to Matthew M. Kowalski, a real-estate agent for Hollister Realtors, 701 E. Vermont St., Bay City. Kowalski, who is working to sell the depot, would not name the prospects. "Someone needs to take this building over before it gets too far gone," Kowalski said. "Right now, it's structurally sound, but it won't last forever." One organization that is not interested in the property is the Bay County Library System. Its sights are set on building a $15 million, three-story Central Library across from the Bay County Building in downtown Bay City. "We aren't going to build on the train depot site," said Linda R. Heemstra, director of the Bay County Library System. "The library board has made a definite commitment to the property across from the County Building ... and has asked the (Bay County) Building Authority to proceed with seeking purchase agreements and a purchase offer on those properties. "That's about as strong a commitment as we can make," Heemstra said. It's been more than 32 years since the Greyhound Bus Co. left the former depot, which sits on 412 acres of land roughly bordered by Boutell Place, Fifth, Adams and Third streets. The building has been vacant since. The depot was built in 1904. During its heyday, more than 10 trains a week rolled into the station, transporting passengers as far north as Canada and as far south as Toledo. It had fallen into disrepair by 1953 and was damaged by fire in 1980, the same year it was placed on the State Register of Historic Sites. In April 1982 the depot was listed on the National Register of Historic Places. This status, however, does nothing to protect the building from demolition, said Bryan Lijewski, architectural coordinator for the State Historic Preservation Office in Lansing. "Someone could purchase the building and knock it down using their own money. We'd hate to see that, but there's nothing we could do about it," Lijewski said. Lijewski said a federal tax incentive program would allow a new owner to rehabilitate the building and claim a 20 percent federal tax credit. That's the same program the owners of Hereford & Hops Restaurant and Brewpub took advantage of in renovating their historic site on Midland Street in Bay City. "This program exists to serve as incentive for owners of historic buildings not to knock them down," Lijewski said. County Executive Hickner believes the building is best suited for offices. He'd like to see a group of county, city, economic development and downtown development leaders formed to discuss the future of the depot. Hickner foresees a future in which different entities would fund a three-phase renovation project - to fix up the building's exterior, interior and surrounding land. He thinks it would cost between $1.6 million and $2 million. "Knocking it down is an option, but they just aren't making buildings like this anymore," Hickner said. "I'm not a big fan of tearing down historic buildings." Neither is Bay City Manager James M. Palenick. He said he'd be happy to be a part of a discussion about the depot, but thinks nothing can be accomplished unless the sale price comes down. "I don't think most people would like to see the building knocked down, but, at the end of the day, if you can't make ends meet, that may be what you have to talk about," Palenick said. "You have to get the depot back into use to save it, but it has a price that is too high and unrealistic. There is no incentive for a developer to buy it." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002101c1ad72$921f8220$49f82444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 06:53:32 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Kiosk restorations highlight MBTA's history Photo available with original story: http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/034/metro/Kiosk_restorations_highlight_MBT A_s_history+.shtml Kiosk restorations highlight MBTA's history By Mac Daniel, Globe Staff, 2/3/2002 Boston Globe And now a short pause from the mayhem of mass transit and local roads for a little transit history. We live in and around a town so full of the past that we tend to overlook it. So late last month, after four of Boston's historic but overlooked transit gems got quiet facelifts, we thought it was worth a little history lesson. When Boston opened the nation's first subway on Sept. 1, 1897, the Park Street and Boylston Street ''kiosks'' or ''headhouses'' were its above-ground symbols, portals to this wonderful new underground world that changed the way city residents got around. One hundred and four years later, the MBTA has just completed a yearlong restoration effort to the four kiosks - subtle repairs and new copper-clad skylights to channel more natural light down below. Gone is the bird-pooped wire glass, the graffiti and wooden eyesores, such as the plywood covering broken windows and doors. The project cost $1.92 million, 80 percent funded by a federal grant. Paint was removed from the interior's Deer Isle granite. Wooden window-frames were replaced or added. These were never grand structures. The original eight kiosks, four of which were razed over the years, were designed to blend into the natural background of Boston Common. Some had no doors. But after residents in the 1960s complained that two of Park Street station's boxy headhouses were boring, they were removed. According to a narrative history from the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, ''The austere, neo-classical structures were criticized by the public for their mausoleum-like appearance.'' They were designed by the famous Boston architectural firm of Wheelwright & Haven and built by the Norcross Brothers, who were also responsible for erecting the New York Public Library, the Rhode Island State House, South Station, and the Custom House Tower. The kiosks have since been designated as National Historic landmarks, City of Boston landmarks, and National Civil Engineering landmarks. Down below, the present is catching up with the past as construction continues at Park Street to raise the east and westbound platforms eight inches to accommodate new low-floor Green Line trains. The project also will add upgraded warning strips along the edge of the platform while ensuring that fare lines are accessible to all. Work began on Jan. 7 and is expected to continue until November. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002701c1ad73$524b5ec0$49f82444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 06:58:54 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Down at the 21st-century train depot Down at the 21st-century train depot Glass and light have become new aesthetic of terminal design By F.n. D'alessio ASSOCIATED PRESS CHICAGO, Feb. 4 - Train stations, in old black-and-white movies, had a gloomy - and sometimes gritty - glamour. But things are changing down at the depot, and a new exhibit at the Art Institute of Chicago aspires to show how the 19th-century world of trains and railroad stations is being transformed in the 21st. In old movies, the vast waiting rooms upstairs always seemed dimly lighted, and their vaulted ceilings dwarfed the passengers, making them as anonymous as ants. A deeper darkness reigned downstairs at the platforms, with their steel pillars and swirls of steam. The stations were perfect sets for tearful farewells and furtive romances. But it's hard to imagine trysts at the stations depicted at the Art Institute, unless they involve folks like Han Solo and Princess Leia. Many of the featured stations - all designed since 1990 - are places of glass and light. They are as streamlined as the high-speed trains they are designed to accommodate. The exhibit, "Modern Trains and Splendid Stations: Architecture and Design for the 21st Century," features sketches, photographs and models of both the stations and the trains. It was designed and installed by David Childs and Marilyn Taylor of the New York office of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, who are the lead designers of the new Penn Station project in New York. EUROPEAN, ASIAN INFLUENCES The exhibit is supported by Amtrak and features a large-scale model of the Acela Express, the passenger rail agency's new train. But a stroll through the exhibit hall quickly convinces the visitor that Europe and Asia may have more to say than America about the future of passenger rail. Nineteen European train stations are depicted, and eight from Japan, China and Singapore, while only four American projects are on display. There are also models or pictures of 13 European high-speed trains, including an experimental German Maglev (magnetic levitation) prototype that floats above the track on an electromagnetic "cushion." Besides the Acela, the only American train on display is the Spanish-designed Amtrak Cascades, which sports "tail fins" reminiscent of a 1956 Buick. Writer and passenger rail advocate F.K. Plous, who attended the exhibit's opening, noted that not even the Acela can make much of a claim at being truly American. "The locomotive has a French-built power unit and the coaches are based on a 25-year-old Canadian design," Plous said. "It's pretty clear, going through this exhibit, that overseas railroad and station technology has moved into areas that most Americans are not even aware of. Maybe for the first time in recent history, America is not a technological leader." MILLIONS OF TRAVELERS The new trains require specially constructed tracks to travel at optimum speed, which presents a knotty design challenge for architects when they integrate all existing transportation lines into their terminal designs. For example, Meinhard von Gerkan's design for Berlin's Lehrter Station puts the high-speed and local trains on elevated tracks, while it funnels cars, pedestrians and buses through at street level and allows access to a subway station below ground. The station is covered by a 1,400-foot-long glass barrel vault that cuts through two rectangular buildings housing retail space, service facilities and a hotel. A multilevel glassed-in concourse cuts through at another angle, forming a gigantic "X." The station is designed to accommodate 30 million travelers and commuters a year when it opens in 2006. The planned Arnhem Central Station in the Netherlands, another multiuse facility, is meant to handle more than 22 million people yearly, beginning in 2007. Its designers are using a series of organically inspired curves and folds to channel those crowds to their destinations. Santiago Calatrava's Orient Station in Lisbon, Portugal, completed in 1998, serves high-speed and local trains, a subway, trams and buses. From a distance, its glass-and-steel platform canopies are said to resemble a palm grove. But Germany's Frankfurt Airport ICE Railway Station, built in 2000, looks a bit like a mechanical millipede. INCORPORATING EXISTING STRUCTURES Two of the depicted projects, Childs' and Taylor's Penn Station and Ingenhoven, Overdiek and Partners' design for the Stuttgart Main Station in Germany, incorporate existing structures. Both are scheduled for completion in 2008, and both offer window views of the platforms from directly overhead. In Stuttgart, a glass dome will adjoin the old station hall and a new park will be built over the platform, with ground-level "portholes" looking down. The New York project will include the shell of the existing Farley Post Office and a 150-foot-high glass and nickel skylight over the main entrance and ticket booths. The underground platforms will be visible through windows in the concourse floor. Some of the design is meant to echo Stanford White's monumental old Penn Station, which was demolished in the 1960s and used as landfill in New Jersey. The exhibit will be on display through July 28. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006901c1ad87$ff19b6b0$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:26:55 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) New Book About DL&W's Syracuse Division From the NYS&W list... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Robb" To: Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:47 PM Subject: NYSW List - New Book About DL&W's Syracuse Division Picked up a copy of the just-released "Scenes Along The Rails - The Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railroad's Syracuse Division" at the Springfield train show today. It's written by John W. Hudson, II and Suzanne C. Hudson. (Depot Square Publishing) I haven't had a chance to read all of it (obviously) but anyone interested in the NYSW's present-day Northern Division should enjoy the numerous black & white historic photos of the line and its structures as well as the generous and informative captions and several pages of the line's history. I hope they do another one about the Utica side! Eric (I have No connection with the authors or publisher. Just thought folks might be interested.) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002701c1ad73$524b5ec0$49f82444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:04:52 -0600 (CST) From: Andy Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Down at the 21st-century train depot On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Bernie Wagenblast wrote: > The exhibit, "Modern Trains and Splendid Stations: Architecture and > Design for the 21st Century," features sketches, photographs and models of > both the stations and the trains. It was designed and installed by David > Childs and Marilyn Taylor of the New York office of Skidmore, Owings & > Merrill, who are the lead designers of the new Penn Station project in New > York. [...] > The exhibit will be on display through July 28. For those of you who might not make it to Chicago to view the exhibit, there is a coffee table book of the same name that covers much of the same material. It's as glossy and glassy as you'd expect. - -Andy - -- My .sig is an honor student at Crestview Elementary. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <007a01c1adbf$9bcf56e0$49f82444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:05:00 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Portland, ME Revived railroad carries memories for black Mainers By C. KALIMAH REDD, Portland Press Herald Writer Charles "Eddie" Cummings was a stickler for time. To him, 6:04 meant something. If you were late for your shift at Portland's Union Station, you were sent home. Leslie "Tate" Cummings was a people person. He used his gregarious personality to run a business selling coffee, muffins and doughnuts to workers at the railroad offices. Eugene "Gene" Cummings was the politician. He sometimes aided Portland police, serving as the eyes and ears for the station. Memories of these men - now deceased - swirled in the mind of Leonard Cummings, a son of Eugene, the morning of Dec. 14 when he boarded the inaugural run of the Downeaster - the first passenger railroad service to travel between Portland and Boston in 37 years. All three men, who were African-American, were employed by the Maine Central Railroad at Union Station in the early 20th century as luggage handlers or "redcaps." Cummings, 67, worried that the rich history of these men and other black people who gave much of their lives to working in Maine's railroad system would be overlooked in the excitement of the railroad's return. "That's why I had to go," Cummings said. "Maine has a black history that has to be told." As many as a dozen workers carried bags, cleaned bathrooms or cooked for passengers traveling into and out of Union Station before it was torn down the morning of Aug. 31, 1961. Many of these people, like the Cummings brothers, were related and settled in the Portland area from Massachusetts or Canada. Portland was considered a safe and affordable place to raise a family. Many of the railroad employees at Union Station lived on nearby A Street. When the station was completed in 1888, the nation was caught up in a period of rapid change. As part of the Industrial Revolution, a national railway system was emerging and knitting the country together. To service these trains and stations, railways commissioned a legion of recently freed slaves, who had skills in manual labor in fields or factories, or domestic skills such as cleaning, cooking and serving. One railway known as the Pullman Sleeping Car Co. began to employ exclusively blacks. The system was said to retain the racial infrastructure in a manner that was acceptable to the general public. The Maine Central Railroad and other rail services in Maine reflected this national trend. About six redcaps, a term used to describe their apple-red hats, worked the Boston-Maine Flying Yankee and Hemlock services. Work as a redcap was one of the few job opportunities for blacks in Portland, where steady employment was very limited. But there was virtually no chance for advancement. Eddie Cummings rose no higher than the rank of redcap captain even after 50 years of service. "Although he could have been whatever he wanted, he made the best of it with what was available for him," Cummings said. Professional career opportunities around Portland were virtually nonexistent. Cummings recalled a relative who was a pharmacist coming to Portland to look for work. No one would hire him, so he too became a redcap. "It was somewhat left to black people that (service railroad jobs) were their position," said Gerald Talbot, prominent local black historian, "but for black people to hold that position and to be respectable and cordial and kind. To be personable and to be the best they could be, they brought dignity to it." Indeed. Wayne Davis, head of the Trainriders/Northeast, said as a child traveling along the train system, he remembers the redcaps as "most attentive, polite and well-spoken." "I can bet there are a lot of people who entrusted their kids to these car attendants," he said. Though the redcaps worked for tips and were not salaried until 1938, Portland redcaps managed to earn a living with the income from their railroad work and other side businesses. The majority owned their own homes and trucks. Eddie Cummings put six of his seven children through college. Nationally, African-Americans working in the train industry formed the first black labor union in 1925, shortly before the number of black porters peaked at 20,224. Known as the Brotherhood of Pullman Sleeping Car Porters, the group was led by A. Philip Randolph. The union made several demands, including an end to tipping, a raise in salary to $150 a month, fair pay for overtime, a work reduction from 400 to 240 hours a month, and scheduled time to sleep - four hours the first night of their weeks and six hours the following nights. When the redcaps who worked for companies other than Pullman formed their own union in 1938 with help from the Pullman porters organization, they achieved salaries and shift schedules for the first time. Tim Wilson, who directs the Seeds of Peace Camp in Otisfield, compared the brotherhood porters to the underground railroad because of the national network of opportunity the porters provided for newly freed slaves in the South. "They would go back and say, 'There is a new hotel being built in New York,' " Wilson said. "They would get relatives and made sure that they got there." Wilson's grandfather, Andrew Mobley, worked as a porter and was one of the original members of the Pullman porters union. He traveled the country on a route from Charleston, S.C., to Baltimore to Washington. Occasionally, he would ride to Pittsburgh to visit Wilson and his family. There, Mobley would carry him atop his tall shoulders and give him horse rides on his spit-shined black boots. He worked from 1898 to 1948. The service these porters and redcaps provided was extraordinary. Over the years, Eddie Cummings met and served thousands of celebrity travelers. "They would call ahead and say, 'Eddie, take care of me,' " Leonard Cummings said. Among them were President Herbert Hoover, Eleanor Roosevelt, pianist Ignace Paderewski and diva Ernestine Schumann-Heink. His friends included politician Edmund Muskie and heavyweight champion Gene Tunney. After the closing of Union Station, Eddie Cummings and the rest of the redcaps turned to the nation's newest mode of transportation and become skycaps, handling luggage at Portland International Jetport. Cummings said many young people know little about the contributions of these individuals. His wife, Mary Jane, said the legacy of the redcaps needs to be preserved. "It's our responsibility to tell this story and to remind young people of what our parents went through and how we got to where we are now," she said. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #278 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000701c1ae78$a02e9340$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 14:08:44 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Everett, WA Editorial from The Daily Herald Everett Station shows city history and future Maybe King County Executive Ron Sims was stroking Everett's ego Monday at the Everett Station's ribbon-cutting ceremony when he told the large crowd, "It's quite an enviable facility that I would love to see in King County." Whatever his motive, he was right on the mark. It is an outstanding place. And its significance and impact reaches far beyond mere transportation -- as if that wouldn't be enough in our growing area. The station combines transportation needs with higher education and workforce training. The three-pronged facility is setting an example throughout the state and country of how to build partnerships in financing and use of such structures. Finally, trains, buses, shuttles and bicycles, and the people who use them, all have one place to congregate. The buses were already passing through Monday as people toured the building. And Amtrak is expected to have its intercity rail service soon. Now, if we could just get Sounder Commuter Rail here, we'd be set. We look forward to watching Sims, who is also the Sound Transit board chair, work on getting Sounder here no later than Fall 2003 and possibly earlier. Sims is a picture of determination when he says he wants to see things accomplished quickly, so we'll expect to see that come to fruition. The station is also an example of combining naturally the past, present and future. The modern architecture perfectly houses historical murals and new artwork that serve as history and geography lessons of our area. Indeed, the floor of the station, called the Waterways Map, depicts the bay area, estuary rivers and streams of our landscape. You don't need to have travel plans to visit this landmark. It's a destination point in its own right. All the transportation, education, government and financing partners in this project deserve praise for their cooperation. Faith in the ability of our officials, elected or otherwise, to accomplish major projects on time and on budget is pretty weak right now. So, the Everett Station will also stand out as a standard for other projects throughout our state. If you've lived in the area for a long time, you might find yourself visiting the station with a twinge of surprise, possibly disbelief. No matter how loyal you are, you can't help but think to yourself, "I can't believe Everett has something this fantastic." Our area is full of exciting projects right now -- some private and some through the city. Whether it's a new events center, an overpass or creative new housing options, we're finally making some long-needed improvements to keep and bring people here. It appears Everett is finally reaching its potential. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005601c1ae93$30f877a0$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 17:19:33 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Poplar Bluff, MO Some progress in effort to save train station POPLAR BLUFF, Mo. (AP) -- An effort to save an old train station in this southeast town is slowly making progress. The old Union Pacific Railroad Depot in downtown Poplar Bluff has sat unused for several years except for a room that serves as a waiting room for Amtrak passengers. The waiting area had been unsafe and unsightly until about a year ago, when the Committee to Save and Restore the Poplar Bluff Historic Train Depot began volunteering to clean and maintain it with the help of Union Pacific employees and Amtrak. "We're beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel," said Dennis Glaze, chairman of the committee. Glaze said that as soon as the committee receives a 501-3 tax designation, Union Pacific will deed to the committee the depot, its land and the historic steps behind the depot that lead to Main Street ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008d01c1aeb1$794cb840$4bddd23f_@_paul> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:54:43 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Subway School NY Times Metro section, December 11, 2001 Tunnel Vision column by Randy Kennedy "Unexpected Denizens of a Subway Station" The following are not the kinds of things you typically find at a subway station: A poster warning that pinkeye might be going around. A nice woman handing out apple juice. A group of Brooklynites sitting on the ground in a circle, singing, "The more we get together, the happier we will be!" But if you go to the Prospect Park station on the Q line in Brooklyn, and if you choose the wrong door, you may find these things just about any weekday morning, along with even more unusual sights. For example, if you had been there yesterday morning, you could have seen a Brooklynite named Colin Hamingson staring thoughtfully out a window at a subway train, and then, in a kind of experimental gesture, licking the window. "I like the subway," he said. It is highly unlikely that you will walk through the wrong door at the station. The people behind it have put an electronic lock on it, and a second door behind it with a second lock, because as much as they do not want random people wandering in, they want even less to have the people inside wandering out and onto the subway. That is because many of the people inside are just learning how to say "subway." Some wear diapers. None of them have Metrocards. They are charges of the Maple Street School, a 25-year old nursery school that moved in September into an old retail space that is part of the station. making it probably the only subway-station nursery school in the country. In the process, the school placed two of the biggest worries of many New Yorkers--commuting and child care--in close proximity in a daring effort to ease both. The above-ground subway station is on the other side of a thick wall and so it is not easy, once inside the school, to tell you that you are still, technically, in the subway. There are reminders, though. In a fire stairway, there is a patch of the original tile work from the station, circa 1905. Sometimes you can hear the roar of the train, even over the roar of 40 toddlers. As in the subway, there is a smattering of graffiti, though in the school it is in crayon. But undoubtedly the best connection to the subway is in the upstairs rear of the school, where a small window allows one to gaze right down onto the open-air subway tracks. For an urban child of a certain age, this window is better than television and almost as good as chocolate. "Of the littlest kids are crying, it's one of the things we do," said Wendy Cole, the school's director and a teacher. "We put them up there on the table so they can look out. I have one little girl it works like magic for. She's transfixed." So were Colin Hamingson, 3, and his friends, Cameron Gipson, 3, and Marko Read, 4, yesterday morning. They were side by side at the window, like a panel of experts, closely studying a motionless Franklin Avenue Shuttle train on a storage track. Marko Read, speaking for the group, reported, "It's broke, I think." The parents who run the Maple Street School as a cooperative had always hoped they could move their school closer to the subway. They never expected it to be quite this close. Ultimately, they chose the site because it was close to Prospect Park and because the appendage to the station had 2,800 relatively inexpensive square feet in which to relocate their school, which has migrated over the years from Midwood Street to Lincoln Road to Maple Street to Nostrand Avenue, outgrowing each location. Had the parents known what lay ahead in turning part of an almost century-old subway station into a school, they probably would not have done it, said Kendall Christiansen, board chairman of the school. The space abandoned for five years, looked like the subway had run through it. "As I like to say, it was well ventilated and hydrated," Mr. Christiansen said. There were traces of toxic solvent, left as a kind of parting gift by a former tenant, a dry cleaner. There was the mighty bureaucracy of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to negotiate. There were the grants to cobble together, the locks to install to calm parents worried about their children riding the Q train prematurely. Four years and $850,000 later, the parents can be forgiven for feeling as if their school will never quite be finished. The other day, Mr. Christiansen was conducting a tour when Sarah Prud'homme, a mother of two, entered. "There's this guy outside," she reported, "some kind of a roofer, who says he wants to get paid. Despite the renovation blues, though, the parents seem to be exceedingly proud of their pioneering subway school. The children, for their part, take it much more in stride. "Of course I go to school in a subway," Ayla Safran, who said she was 4=BE. declared. "That's where people go to school." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001a01c1aeb5$60460640$LocalHost_@_paul> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:22:59 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Subway Station with picture NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo part1 (image/jpeg, 338170 bytes) NY Times Metro section, December 11, 2001 =20 Tunnel Vision column by Randy Kennedy =20 "Unexpected Denizens of a Subway Station" =20 The following are not the kinds of things you typically find at a subway station: =20 A poster warning that pinkeye might be going around. =20 A nice woman handing out apple juice. A group of Brooklynites sitting on the ground in a circle, singing, "The more we get together, the happier we will be!" =20 But if you go to the Prospect Park station on the Q line in Brooklyn, and if you choose the wrong door, you may find these things just about any weekday morning, along with even more unusual sights. =20 For example, if you had been there yesterday morning, you could have seen a Brooklynite named Colin Hamingson staring thoughtfully out a window at a subway train, and then, in a kind of experimental gesture, licking the window. =20 "I like the subway," he said. =20 It is highly unlikely that you will walk through the wrong door at the station. The people behind it have put an electronic lock on it, and a second door behind it with a second lock, because as much as they do not want random people wandering in, they want even less to have the people inside wandering out and onto the subway. =20 That is because many of the people inside are just learning how to say "subway." Some wear diapers. None of them have Metrocards. =20 They are charges of the Maple Street School, a 25-year old nursery school that moved in September into an old retail space that is part of the station. making it probably the only subway-station nursery school in the country. =20 In the process, the school placed two of the biggest worries of many New Yorkers--commuting and child care--in close proximity in a daring effort to ease both. =20 The above-ground subway station is on the other side of a thick wall and so it is not easy, once inside the school, to tell you that you are still, technically, in the subway. =20 There are reminders, though. In a fire stairway, there is a patch of the original tile work from the station, circa 1905. Sometimes you can hear the roar of the train, even over the roar of 40 toddlers. As in the subway, there is a smattering of graffiti, though in the school it is in crayon. =20 But undoubtedly the best connection to the subway is in the upstairs rear of the school, where a small window allows one to gaze right down onto the open-air subway tracks. =20 For an urban child of a certain age, this window is better than television and almost as good as chocolate. =20 "Of the littlest kids are crying, it's one of the things we do," said Wendy Cole, the school's director and a teacher. "We put them up there on the table so they can look out. I have one little girl it works like magic for. She's transfixed." =20 So were Colin Hamingson, 3, and his friends, Cameron Gipson, 3, and Marko Read, 4, yesterday morning. They were side by side at the window, like a panel of experts, closely studying a motionless Franklin Avenue Shuttle train on a storage track. Marko Read, speaking for the group, reported, "It's broke, I think." =20 The parents who run the Maple Street School as a cooperative had always hoped they could move their school closer to the subway. They never expected it to be quite this close. =20 Ultimately, they chose the site because it was close to Prospect Park and because the appendage to the station had 2,800 relatively inexpensive square feet in which to relocate their school, which has migrated over the years from Midwood Street to Lincoln Road to Maple Street to Nostrand Avenue, outgrowing each location. =20 Had the parents known what lay ahead in turning part of an almost century-old subway station into a school, they probably would not have done it, said Kendall Christiansen, board chairman of the school. =20 The space abandoned for five years, looked like the subway had run through it. "As I like to say, it was well ventilated and hydrated," Mr. Christiansen said. =20 There were traces of toxic solvent, left as a kind of parting gift by a former tenant, a dry cleaner. There was the mighty bureaucracy of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to negotiate. There were the grants to cobble together, the locks to install to calm parents worried about their children riding the Q train prematurely. =20 Four years and $850,000 later, the parents can be forgiven for feeling as if their school will never quite be finished. =20 The other day, Mr. Christiansen was conducting a tour when Sarah Prud'homme, a mother of two, entered. "There's this guy outside," she reported, "some kind of a roofer, who says he wants to get paid. =20 Despite the renovation blues, though, the parents seem to be exceedingly proud of their pioneering subway school. The children, for their part, take it much more in stride. =20 "Of course I go to school in a subway," Ayla Safran, who said she was 4=BE. declared. =20 "That's where people go to school." [accompanying picture: "Colin Hamingson, 3, finds hypnotic charm in the trains that pass below his schoolroom window at the Prospect Park subway station."] - ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C1AE8B.76172500 ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #279 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001a01c1aeb5$60460640$LocalHost_@_paul> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:16:36 -0500 (EST) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Subway Station with picture On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Paul S. Luchter wrote: > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. > To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. > > http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo > > part1 (image/jpeg, 338170 bytes) > > NY Times Metro section, December 11, 2001 > =20 > Tunnel Vision column > by Randy Kennedy > =20 There was no filename extension on the file so it didn't show up in the photo index. I manually renamed it so it is there now. Some mailers allow people to attach images which have no filename I guess. I don't know how or why really as I've never reproduced that situation on my own, but it would be best if images are attached as somename.jpg or somename.gif so they appear in the index without manual fiddling. I modified the extractor program to add .jpg to any image attachment named just "part1", but any additional images which might be attached as part2 or part3 won't be renamed at the moment :( I believe I also got rid of the obnoxious ISO 8859-1 extraneous =20's which keep appearing. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C616B28.1DBBDF6C_@_Qwest.net> References: <000701c1ae78$a02e9340$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:43:04 -0800 From: Bob Harbison Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Everett, WA Bernie Wagenblast wrote: > Editorial from The Daily Herald > Everett Station shows city history and future... Here are some photos from the grand opening of the station: http://www.railroadpix.com/rrphotos/Stations_and_Depots/ - -- Bob Harbison - RailroadData.com Webmaster Bob_@_RailroadInfo.Com http://www.RailroadData.com - Links to over 4,500 RR Websites! http://www.RailroadBookstore.com - Railroad Books at up to 30% off List http://www.RailroadPix.com - Railroad and Model RR photo gallery http://www.RailroadInfo.com - Railroad news and information. http://www.railroadpix.com/mstsfiles/index.html - Train Simulator Files ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <010101c1af55$a7e37ff0$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:31:36 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Ogden Union Station A Union Pacific news release... Union Pacific Donates Vintage Locomotive to Utah State Railroad Museum OGDEN Feb. 5, 2002 – Union Pacific Railroad today donated a vintage Southern Pacific locomotive to the Utah State Railroad Museum at Ogden Union Station. The railroad also announced that it has renewed the lease for the historic station property to the museum for a dollar a year. Union Pacific Western Region Vice President Jeff Verhaal and Ogden Mayor Matthew R. Godfrey participated in a donation ceremony which also featured Union Pacific's two Winter Olympic Torch Relay locomotives which helped relay the Olympic flame across much of the United States to Utah. Bob Geier, Director of the Utah State Railroad Museum, said the city was extremely pleased with the locomotive donation and new lease agreement. "This significant reduction to our lease expense will greatly help and benefit the museum's ability to develop new displays and enable us to become a world class attraction," said Geier. Ogden Union Station was donated to Ogden City in the late 1970s. It has grown into a significant museum and community center complex featuring the Utah State Railroad Museum. "Union Pacific and Ogden have had a longstanding partnership," Verhaal said. "We are happy we are able to enhance our support of the museum." Verhaal added that Union Pacific has a history of support for the Utah State Railroad Museum and other Ogden non-profit organizations through Foundation and Corporate grants. In the past five years grants have totaled more than $130,000. The locomotive donated to the museum is the first SD45 model Electro-Motive Division of General Motors diesel-electric delivered to Southern Pacific in 1966. The model became the signature locomotive on SP with 356 units, the largest SD45 fleet in the country. The locomotives were a common sight in Ogden, a historic gateway between UP and SP. UP acquired SP in 1996. Union Pacific's two Olympic locomotives, their unique Torch Relay run completed, will join the railroad's fleet of more than 7,000 locomotives. Since the end of the steam era in the 1950s, Union Pacific has donated more than 80 steam and diesel-electric locomotives, hundreds of cabooses, scores of stations and depots and other railroad memorabilia for historic preservation. Union Pacific Corporation is one of America's leading transportation companies. Its principal operating company, Union Pacific Railroad, is the largest railroad in North America, covering 23 states across the western two-thirds of the United States. A strong focus on quality and a strategically advantageous route structure enable the company to serve customers in critical and fast growing markets. It is a leading carrier of low-sulfur coal used in electrical power generation and has broad coverage of the large chemical-producing areas along the Gulf Coast. With competitive long-haul routes between all major West Coast ports and eastern gateways, and as the only railroad to serve all six gateways to Mexico, Union Pacific has the premier rail franchise in North America. The Corporation, incorporated in the State of Utah, also owns Overnite Transportation, a nationwide less-than-truckload carrier, and Fenix, a group of affiliated technology companies. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #280 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002d01c1afcf$9ef79000$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:04:39 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Chicago, IL - Union Station Photo links: http://www.ping.be/cosmopolitan/img/chicago/kveus084s.jpg (exterior shot) http://www.flatland.org/erewhon/travel/us/il/union-station.jpg (waiting room) Mixed-use proposal for rail station Plan would award landmark status By Thomas A. Corfman Chicago Tribune staff reporter Published February 7, 2002 The Chicago Landmarks Commission on Thursday is expected to consider an ambitious proposal for a mixed-use redevelopment of Union Station that would include construction of a multistory addition on top of the historic but underused railroad station. The addition, which would bring the structure to 26 stories, is intended to fit with the existing eight-story structure, while completing Daniel Burnham's original plan for a tall tower on the site. The station, built in 1925, occupies the block bounded by Jackson Boulevard and Canal, Clinton and Adams Streets. The proposal, to be presented by Amtrak and Chicago-based developer Prime Group Realty Trust, would more than double the size of the building to 1.1 million square feet, while giving it official landmark status. The key aspects of the plan: - - At the top of the building, 150 condo units would be built, with private parking and a separate residential entrance along Canal. - - The middle floors would contain 480,000 square feet of high-tech office space, with features such as underfloor ventilation and windows that can be opened and closed. - - The building's existing floors would be renovated for a 300-room hotel and conference center, to be operated by Harrison Conference Centers, part of Hilton Hotels Corp. - - More than 60,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space that can be reached from the street and passenger waiting area, called the Great Hall, would be added. The design by Chicago architect Lucien Lagrange features a massive, enclosed atrium at the center of the building that rises up to the structure's top floor. Although this isn't the first proposal for Union Station, the project last year became a top priority of former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy G. Thompson, who was then chairman of Amtrak's board of directors. After Thompson was named secretary of health and human services, Michael Dukakis, as acting chairman, took up the cause. Presentation of the plan to the Landmarks Commission is just one key step in the long-delayed redevelopment project. The Daley administration first proposed landmark status for Union Station in 2000. And Amtrak and Prime Group have been negotiating terms of the proposal with the Department of Planning since April. "The cooperation thus far with the city has been excellent regarding this project," said Richard Curto, chief executive of Prime Group, who confirmed details of the plan. Planning Commissioner Alicia Berg would not comment on the proposal until it had been formally presented to the commission, a spokesman said. The proposal brings together two entities that have had their share of woe in recent months. While cash-strapped Amtrak is struggling to avoid eliminating train routes, Prime Group has been clouded by the financial uncertainty surrounding its chairman, Michael Reschke, who is fighting off a foreclosure sale of his stake in the company. Even if the proposal eventually gains landmark approval, the project still faces substantial obstacles, including the securing of financing. And building on top of an existing structure can raise special challenges, including more costly construction. "The whole plan looks good on paper, until the financial people have to evaluate the budgets," said Steven Fifield, president and CEO of Chicago-based Fifield Cos., which is developing buildings west of the Loop. But Curto said taking advantage of the existing foundation would reduce costs and speed construction. The project could be completed by fall 2004. Sales of the condos will help raise cash for the project, he added. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003601c1afd1$5c121880$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:17:06 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Baird, TX Photo: http://www.bairdtexas.com/court_h2.gif State funding rescuing area historical sites By Larry Zelisko Reporter-News Staff Writer Rebuilding a brick street, restoring a depot and raising a museum are among area projects approved by the Texas Department of Transportation to receive federal funds. Through the Statewide Transportation Enhancement Program, $143 million was approved for 107 projects in Texas, including five in the Big Country. Area projects receiving funding are: Baird - 1911 Texas & Pacific Railroad Depot restoration. Total cost, $1,480,630. Federal funding will provide $1,142,573, with Callahan County responsible for the remaining 20 percent. n Breckenridge - Walker Street rehabilitation. Total cost, $1,428,216. Federal funding, $1,142,573, with the city responsible for the rest. n Brownwood - Great State of Texas Historical Transportation Complex. Total cost, $2,818,290. Federal funding, $2,254,632, with the city responsible for the rest. n Comanche - Old Cora Pedestrian Information Center. Total cost, $119,854. Federal funding, $95,883, with Comanche County responsible for the rest. n Fort Griffin State Park - Crossroads Exhibit Hall and lecture room. Total cost, $96,000. Federal funding, $76,800, with the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department responsible for the rest. Department of Transportation spokesman Mark Cross said the program funds "nontraditional" transportation projects such as bicycle and pedestrian trails, landscaping and scenic beautification, and historical preservation. Without federal funding, the projects wouldn't get off the drawing boards, area officials said. "There's no way in the world" the city of Baird, Callahan County or the Baird Foundation could fund a restoration of the depot, said Baird Chamber of Commerce manager Tommie Jones. "To preserve an old structure like this, we were really determined, almost desperate, to get this funding," Jones said. "This building is a real asset. It can be a showcase for Baird." Even in its condition now, without heating or air conditioning, more than 1,000 visitors signed the guest book last year, Jones estimated. "People pull off the interstate to come to Baird," she said. "They see our billboards and are attracted by our antique stores. They're interested in heritage tourism and they see the architecture of the depot and they are drawn to it like a magnet." Plans are to restore the depot for use as a visitors center and museum, said Bill Leach, enhancement program coordinator for the Abilene District of the highway department. For Breckenridge, this was the second time to apply for funding to rebuild the city's main downtown street, which is also U.S. Highway 180, said City Manager Gary Ernest. Without the federal assistance, the project would not be possible, he added. The project will preserve the four blocks of brick street downtown, add new curbs, sidewalks, lighting and landscaping. With the replacement of sewer and water lines, Ernest said, total cost of the project could be about $3 million. The street was built in 1923 with bricks from nearby Thurber, said Michael Belvin, who is in charge of enhancement projects for the Brownwood office of the highway department. Only minor repairs have been made to the street since then, he added. Bricks will be removed, cleaned and reused if they are in good repair. Brick pavers will be used to replace broken bricks. In Brownwood, $2.8 million is budgeted to build the Great State of Texas Historical Transportation Complex. The museum will be built across the street from the Santa Fe Depot and the Harvey House, which will be undergoing renovation through enhancement program funding awarded in 2000. The complex will feature the Martin and Frances Lehnis Railroad Museum, said Brownwood city manager Gary Butts. Lehnis, a retired Santa Fe Railroad employee, donated his collection of memorabilia to the city, including a Pullman car, a depot and a caboose. The museum at first will be a working museum where people can watch artifacts being restored. Eventually, it will evolve into a full-fledged transportation museum, not just a railroad museum, Belvin said. The city is responsible for raising 20 percent of the total cost. For all the projects, a nominating agency is responsible for raising at least 20 percent of the total cost in order to receive funding. The complex fits the city's master plan for downtown renovation, centering on the depot and working outward, Butts said. In Comanche, the Old Cora courthouse, a log building billed as the oldest courthouse in Texas, will be refurbished so it can be used as a visitors center on the square. At Fort Griffin State Park, the existing visitors center will be expanded. Leach said the transportation enhancement program is a popular one with local entities. Money from the program was used for exterior restorations of the Jones and Shackelford courthouses. Two years ago funding was provided for 11 projects in the Big Country: n $2.7 million for the Texas Forts Trail visitors center in Abilene n $1 million to complete the restoration of the depot and Harvey House in Brownwood n $555,840 for parking and a visitors kiosk at Fort Phantom Hill n $505,344 for a walking path in Albany n $119,328 for a visitors center in Ranger n $383,136 for sidewalk improvements in Ballinger n $874,877 for a pedestrian parkway in Dublin n $165,542 for restoration of a gristmill in Dublin n $1.8 million for a bike path in Stephenville n $115,200 for improvements at the Hangar 25 Museum in Big Spring n $1.2 million for a visitors center in Thurber Those projects are progressing. In most cases, final plans have been presented to the Department of Transportation for approval. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002d01c1afcf$9ef79000$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:42:16 -0500 From: Rob Davis Subject: Burnham's plan Re: (rshsdepot) Chicago, IL - Union Station If it would complete Burnham's plan, why is Lucien Lagrange's design required? Rob On 2/7/02 7:04 AM, "Bernie Wagenblast" wrote: > Photo links: > http://www.ping.be/cosmopolitan/img/chicago/kveus084s.jpg (exterior shot) > http://www.flatland.org/erewhon/travel/us/il/union-station.jpg (waiting > room) > > > Mixed-use proposal for rail station > Plan would award landmark status > > By Thomas A. Corfman > Chicago Tribune staff reporter > Published February 7, 2002 > > The Chicago Landmarks Commission on Thursday is expected to consider an > ambitious proposal for a mixed-use redevelopment of Union Station that would > include construction of a multistory addition on top of the historic but > underused railroad station. > > The addition, which would bring the structure to 26 stories, is intended to > fit with the existing eight-story structure, while completing Daniel > Burnham's original plan for a tall tower on the site. The station, built in > 1925, occupies the block bounded by Jackson Boulevard and Canal, Clinton and > Adams Streets. > > The proposal, to be presented by Amtrak and Chicago-based developer Prime > Group Realty Trust, would more than double the size of the building to 1.1 > million square feet, while giving it official landmark status. > > The key aspects of the plan: > > - At the top of the building, 150 condo units would be built, with private > parking and a separate residential entrance along Canal. > > - The middle floors would contain 480,000 square feet of high-tech office > space, with features such as underfloor ventilation and windows that can be > opened and closed. > > - The building's existing floors would be renovated for a 300-room hotel and > conference center, to be operated by Harrison Conference Centers, part of > Hilton Hotels Corp. > > - More than 60,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space that can be > reached from the street and passenger waiting area, called the Great Hall, > would be added. > > The design by Chicago architect Lucien Lagrange features a massive, enclosed > atrium at the center of the building that rises up to the structure's top > floor. > > Although this isn't the first proposal for Union Station, the project last > year became a top priority of former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy G. Thompson, who > was then chairman of Amtrak's board of directors. After Thompson was named > secretary of health and human services, Michael Dukakis, as acting chairman, > took up the cause. > > Presentation of the plan to the Landmarks Commission is just one key step in > the long-delayed redevelopment project. > > The Daley administration first proposed landmark status for Union Station in > 2000. And Amtrak and Prime Group have been negotiating terms of the proposal > with the Department of Planning since April. > > "The cooperation thus far with the city has been excellent regarding this > project," said Richard Curto, chief executive of Prime Group, who confirmed > details of the plan. > > Planning Commissioner Alicia Berg would not comment on the proposal until it > had been formally presented to the commission, a spokesman said. > > The proposal brings together two entities that have had their share of woe > in recent months. While cash-strapped Amtrak is struggling to avoid > eliminating train routes, Prime Group has been clouded by the financial > uncertainty surrounding its chairman, Michael Reschke, who is fighting off a > foreclosure sale of his stake in the company. > > Even if the proposal eventually gains landmark approval, the project still > faces substantial obstacles, including the securing of financing. And > building on top of an existing structure can raise special challenges, > including more costly construction. > > "The whole plan looks good on paper, until the financial people have to > evaluate the budgets," said Steven Fifield, president and CEO of > Chicago-based Fifield Cos., which is developing buildings west of the Loop. > > But Curto said taking advantage of the existing foundation would reduce > costs and speed construction. The project could be completed by fall 2004. > > Sales of the condos will help raise cash for the project, he added. > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:50:05 EST From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com Subject: Re: Burnham's plan Re: (rshsdepot) Chicago, IL - Union Station In a message dated 2/7/02 10:38:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, superc_@_monmouth.com writes: > If it would complete Burnham's plan, why is Lucien Lagrange's design > required? My guess is that they only mean completing Burnham's plan in a general way, which would be the addition of a tower on the site. I don't know if Burnham drew up detailed plans for a tower, but if he did chances are his 1925 plans wouldn't have met with the desires of today. Among the things being proposed that wouldn't have been suggested in the original plan are the parking facilities, high-tech offices and modern HVAC. Bernie ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00a801c1b01f$2e799800$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:34:11 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Sherman, TX From the Altamont Press Newsline... BNSF Interlocking Tower 16 moving to historic district After 99 years of service, a Sherman, TX landmark is getting a new home. Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway's Interlocking Tower 16 will move to Grapevine, TX, as part of a collection of historic railroad structures. Tower 16, the 16th such tower authorized by the Texas Railroad Commission, entered service with the Southern Pacific in 1903. Located near Sherman's Union Passenger Station (1903-1943), the tower and its operators served as traffic cops at the junction, where the SP tracks crossed those of the Texas & Pacific. The tower was staffed 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 52 weeks of the year. When it was taken out of service late last year, Tower 16 was the last working staffed interlocking tower in Texas, and one of only a handful in the United States. The mechanical and electrical equipment in the tower is original, circa 1903, and unusual for its time in the use of electro-magnetic relays to control distant switches, reports the SHERMAN HERALD DEMOCRAT. When BNSF replaced the interlocking system with a modern one, rail historians and preservation buffs scrambled to find a home for Tower 16. In Grapevine it will take its place with the rebuilt and restored 1901 St. Louis and Southwestern (Cotton Belt) depot, an 1888 Cotton Belt section foreman's house and a period turntable. -BNSF TODAY, Larry W. Grant For more info and a picture: http://www.railspot.com/interlockers/016.htm ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00ae01c1b01f$b7827720$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:38:01 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Hugo, CO From Railway Preservation News... Hope for Hugo Roundhouse? The February 3, 2002 edition of the Denver Post notes that Colorado Preservation, Inc. (a non-profit private organization) has named the former Union Pacific roundhouse at Hugo, Colorado as one of Colorado’s seven most endangered historic structures. The article also reports that the Town of Hugo is considering restoration of the building as a rail museum and county offices. A previous attempt to save and restore the building failed when the private owner refused entrance after initially OK’ing the project. For a complete RyPN Article on the structure, see this link http://www.rypn.org/Articles/Hugo/ ). The roundhouse is now one of only five remaining in Colorado. Dilapidated, and with a collapsed roof, it is located in a large open field and was once surrounded by wye for turning locomotives longer than the 80-foot turntable could handle. After sale by the railroad, it housed a farm implement dealer and hardware store before being abandoned. Ironically, an identical-design UP roundhouse at Sterling, Colorado was razed within the last two years. In better condition, the Sterling roundhouse could have provided much material for the Hugo restoration, but apparently nothing was saved from the demolition. The former Hugo depot also still exists, moved a short distance away some years ago to become a museum that never reached fruition. (Bob Yarger) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000b01c1b03a$502b6ee0$02ac9840_@_paul> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 19:48:18 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Chicago, IL - Union Station and while they're at it they can tear down across the street and rebuild the other Greek style half they tore down in the 60s... after Amtrak gives up all routes into Chicago I guess the Bulls can play basketball games inside - -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Wagenblast To: RSHS Depot Date: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:11 AM Subject: (rshsdepot) Chicago, IL - Union Station Photo links: http://www.ping.be/cosmopolitan/img/chicago/kveus084s.jpg (exterior shot) http://www.flatland.org/erewhon/travel/us/il/union-station.jpg (waiting room) Mixed-use proposal for rail station Plan would award landmark status By Thomas A. Corfman Chicago Tribune staff reporter Published February 7, 2002 The Chicago Landmarks Commission on Thursday is expected to consider an ambitious proposal for a mixed-use redevelopment of Union Station that would include construction of a multistory addition on top of the historic but underused railroad station. The addition, which would bring the structure to 26 stories, is intended to fit with the existing eight-story structure, while completing Daniel Burnham's original plan for a tall tower on the site. The station, built in 1925, occupies the block bounded by Jackson Boulevard and Canal, Clinton and Adams Streets. The proposal, to be presented by Amtrak and Chicago-based developer Prime Group Realty Trust, would more than double the size of the building to 1.1 million square feet, while giving it official landmark status. The key aspects of the plan: - - At the top of the building, 150 condo units would be built, with private parking and a separate residential entrance along Canal. - - The middle floors would contain 480,000 square feet of high-tech office space, with features such as underfloor ventilation and windows that can be opened and closed. - - The building's existing floors would be renovated for a 300-room hotel and conference center, to be operated by Harrison Conference Centers, part of Hilton Hotels Corp. - - More than 60,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space that can be reached from the street and passenger waiting area, called the Great Hall, would be added. The design by Chicago architect Lucien Lagrange features a massive, enclosed atrium at the center of the building that rises up to the structure's top floor. Although this isn't the first proposal for Union Station, the project last year became a top priority of former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy G. Thompson, who was then chairman of Amtrak's board of directors. After Thompson was named secretary of health and human services, Michael Dukakis, as acting chairman, took up the cause. Presentation of the plan to the Landmarks Commission is just one key step in the long-delayed redevelopment project. The Daley administration first proposed landmark status for Union Station in 2000. And Amtrak and Prime Group have been negotiating terms of the proposal with the Department of Planning since April. "The cooperation thus far with the city has been excellent regarding this project," said Richard Curto, chief executive of Prime Group, who confirmed details of the plan. Planning Commissioner Alicia Berg would not comment on the proposal until it had been formally presented to the commission, a spokesman said. The proposal brings together two entities that have had their share of woe in recent months. While cash-strapped Amtrak is struggling to avoid eliminating train routes, Prime Group has been clouded by the financial uncertainty surrounding its chairman, Michael Reschke, who is fighting off a foreclosure sale of his stake in the company. Even if the proposal eventually gains landmark approval, the project still faces substantial obstacles, including the securing of financing. And building on top of an existing structure can raise special challenges, including more costly construction. "The whole plan looks good on paper, until the financial people have to evaluate the budgets," said Steven Fifield, president and CEO of Chicago-based Fifield Cos., which is developing buildings west of the Loop. But Curto said taking advantage of the existing foundation would reduce costs and speed construction. The project could be completed by fall 2004. Sales of the condos will help raise cash for the project, he added. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002701c1b01c$4dc7d800$c0d0ffd1_@_oemcomputer> References: Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:13:30 -0000 From: "Gene Paoli" Subject: Re: Burnham's plan Re: (rshsdepot) Chicago, IL - Union Station What is left of this station is the result of pre-planning for air rights. The design is Graham, Anderson, Probst & White and differs from Burnham's original design just as thier design for Philadelphia's 30th st station. Burnham's design was baroque in both cases and his successor's design more contemporary. All this aside, designs after 1910 or so, primarily PRR involved designs, all had air rights as a design priority. If there was one thing the railroads did right after the turn of the century, it was thier approach to real estate. Keeping thier real estate buisiness strictly as a dividend generating entity, it was, in some cases the only, black ink generating part of the corporations. As proof of this thinking, roads like the PRR and Reading RR real estate corporations still exist today although they have nothing to do with railroads anymore with the sole exception of NY's two major stations and thier air rights.......While i mourn this line of thinking and action, it did keep major roads like the PRR, NYC, etc. out of bankrupcy untill the 60's. The destruction and demolition of several of our most beloved stations was, on the table so to speak, as eary as the 20's although they did not fall untill the 50's and on. In many cases, it was not the local preservationist effort to save at fault, but the RR real estate corporations zeal to sell the air rights to generate black ink. Gene Paoli stationman_@_prodigy.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:50 PM Subject: Re: Burnham's plan Re: (rshsdepot) Chicago, IL - Union Station > In a message dated 2/7/02 10:38:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, > superc_@_monmouth.com writes: > > > If it would complete Burnham's plan, why is Lucien Lagrange's design > > required? > > My guess is that they only mean completing Burnham's plan in a general way, > which would be the addition of a tower on the site. > > I don't know if Burnham drew up detailed plans for a tower, but if he did > chances are his 1925 plans wouldn't have met with the desires of today. > Among the things being proposed that wouldn't have been suggested in the > original plan are the parking facilities, high-tech offices and modern HVAC. > > Bernie ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #281 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:54:23 -0500 From: "Michael Bosak" Subject: Re: Burnham's plan Re: (rshsdepot) Chicago, IL - Union Station ...and open plan (Office) concepts, accessibility for the disabled, etc. It would be nice, however, if they maintained at least some of Burhham's concept with the style of the exterior, rather than some reflective glas s 'thing'. - ----- Original Message ----- From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 10:52 AM To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net; superc@monmouth.com Subject: Re: Burnham's plan Re: (rshsdepot) Chicago, IL - Union Station In a message dated 2/7/02 10:38:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, superc_@_monmouth.com writes: > If it would complete Burnham's plan, why is Lucien Lagrange's design > required? My guess is that they only mean completing Burnham's plan in a general wa y, which would be the addition of a tower on the site. I don't know if Burnham drew up detailed plans for a tower, but if he did chances are his 1925 plans wouldn't have met with the desires of today. Among the things being proposed that wouldn't have been suggested in the original plan are the parking facilities, high-tech offices and modern HV AC. BernieGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explore r.msn.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <016f01c1b0de$650c0780$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 15:22:55 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL - UPDATE Link to graphic of renovation plans: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-020207unionstation-graphic.graphi c Union Station high-rise gets panel endorsement February 8, 2002 BY DAVID ROEDER BUSINESS REPORTER Chicago Sun-Times A city commission Thursday recommended landmark status for Union Station, Chicago's last train terminal to recall the grandeur of early 20th century rail travel, and endorsed a plan to add 18 stories to the building. The Commission on Chicago Landmarks agreed that the proposal from the station's owner, Amtrak, and development partner Prime Group Realty Trust would preserve the station's architectural heritage and fulfill the intent of its original designers, the firm of Daniel Burnham. The square-block building on the southwest edge of downtown originally was supposed to include a high-rise, but the railroads that owned it in the 1920s scrapped that part of the construction. Amtrak and Prime Group proposed adding the high-rise in the middle of the eight-story structure while preserving the Great Hall waiting room with its ornate skylight. The high-rise, although massive in appearance, will have a hollow core and won't block sunlight to the Great Hall. The design feature results in each floor being about 40,000 square feet, a size the developer believes is best suited to today's market. The plan calls for the tower to hold about 150 luxury condominiums, a 300-room hotel to be operated by a division of Hilton Hotels Corp., about 480,000 square feet of office space, and new stores and restaurants. Commission members and city officials lauded the design for its faithfulness to Union Station's Neo-classical roots, especially its thick limestone columns. The masonry addition would be the work of Lucien Lagrange, known for his Park Tower hotel and condominium skyscraper at 800 N. Michigan and for historic renovations. City Planning Commissioner Alicia Berg praised the development team for a plan that respects the "monumental building'' while bringing it more commerce. "Union Station must be preserved and protected as a tribute to the critical role the railroads played in Chicago's development,'' she said. Still, the project, costing perhaps $200 million, faces enormous financial hurdles. The market for new hotels downtown is dormant, demand for office space is sluggish, and lenders are viewing condo projects with suspicions about an overbuilt market. Prime Group President Richard Curto said he hopes work at Union Station can start later this year and that the project will be timed for the next upturn in the economy. He said financing details must wait until the plan gets final city approval. The landmark commission's vote is a recommendation to the City Council, which has the final say on the project. In addition, the Chicago Plan Commission must weigh in on the plans. Curto said the project can be completed faster and cheaper than most high-rises because no excavation is required. Union Station's foundation and supports were designed for a high-rise. He said he hopes for completion by late 2004. LANDMARKS IN THE LIFE OF UNION STATION 1913-25: Constructed for consortium of railroads. 1969: Train shed and concourse east of station torn down for riverfront office building. 1989: Developers propose twin 24-story towers atop station. Souring economy kills plan. 1992: Station rehabbed in two-year, $32 million project. 2002: City agency backs landmark designation and a proposed 18-story addition for condominiums, offices, hotel rooms and retail space. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00e801c1b0e1$626e23c0$7e01a8c0_@_0018982498> References: <016f01c1b0de$650c0780$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:44:19 -0800 From: "Eric Miller" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL - UPDATE why is the story from the sun times but the graphic from the tribune? it won't open. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie Wagenblast" To: "RSHS Depot" Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 12:22 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL - UPDATE > Link to graphic of renovation plans: > http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-020207unionstation-graphic.graphi > c > > Union Station high-rise gets panel endorsement > > February 8, 2002 > > BY DAVID ROEDER BUSINESS REPORTER > Chicago Sun-Times > > A city commission Thursday recommended landmark status for Union Station, > Chicago's last train terminal to recall the grandeur of early 20th century > rail travel, and endorsed a plan to add 18 stories to the building. > > The Commission on Chicago Landmarks agreed that the proposal from the > station's owner, Amtrak, and development partner Prime Group Realty Trust > would preserve the station's architectural heritage and fulfill the intent > of its original designers, the firm of Daniel Burnham. The square-block > building on the southwest edge of downtown originally was supposed to > include a high-rise, but the railroads that owned it in the 1920s scrapped > that part of the construction. > > Amtrak and Prime Group proposed adding the high-rise in the middle of the > eight-story structure while preserving the Great Hall waiting room with its > ornate skylight. The high-rise, although massive in appearance, will have a > hollow core and won't block sunlight to the Great Hall. > > The design feature results in each floor being about 40,000 square feet, a > size the developer believes is best suited to today's market. The plan calls > for the tower to hold about 150 luxury condominiums, a 300-room hotel to be > operated by a division of Hilton Hotels Corp., about 480,000 square feet of > office space, and new stores and restaurants. > > Commission members and city officials lauded the design for its faithfulness > to Union Station's Neo-classical roots, especially its thick limestone > columns. The masonry addition would be the work of Lucien Lagrange, known > for his Park Tower hotel and condominium skyscraper at 800 N. Michigan and > for historic renovations. > > City Planning Commissioner Alicia Berg praised the development team for a > plan that respects the "monumental building'' while bringing it more > commerce. "Union Station must be preserved and protected as a tribute to the > critical role the railroads played in Chicago's development,'' she said. > > Still, the project, costing perhaps $200 million, faces enormous financial > hurdles. The market for new hotels downtown is dormant, demand for office > space is sluggish, and lenders are viewing condo projects with suspicions > about an overbuilt market. > > Prime Group President Richard Curto said he hopes work at Union Station can > start later this year and that the project will be timed for the next upturn > in the economy. He said financing details must wait until the plan gets > final city approval. > > The landmark commission's vote is a recommendation to the City Council, > which has the final say on the project. In addition, the Chicago Plan > Commission must weigh in on the plans. > > Curto said the project can be completed faster and cheaper than most > high-rises because no excavation is required. Union Station's foundation and > supports were designed for a high-rise. He said he hopes for completion by > late 2004. > > LANDMARKS IN THE LIFE OF UNION STATION > > 1913-25: Constructed for consortium of railroads. > > 1969: Train shed and concourse east of station torn down for riverfront > office building. > > 1989: Developers propose twin 24-story towers atop station. Souring economy > kills plan. > > 1992: Station rehabbed in two-year, $32 million project. > > 2002: City agency backs landmark designation and a proposed 18-story > addition for condominiums, offices, hotel rooms and retail space. > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00b301c1b0e0$424e5fc0$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> References: <016f01c1b0de$650c0780$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> <00e801c1b0e1$626e23c0$7e01a8c0@0018982498> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 15:36:17 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL - UPDATE Eric, Don't click on the link, instead copy into your browser and add the "c" that dropped off in Bernie's original message. Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Miller" To: Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:44 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL - UPDATE why is the story from the sun times but the graphic from the tribune? it won't open. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie Wagenblast" To: "RSHS Depot" Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 12:22 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL - UPDATE > Link to graphic of renovation plans: > http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-020207unionstation-graphic.graphi > c > > Union Station high-rise gets panel endorsement > > February 8, 2002 > > BY DAVID ROEDER BUSINESS REPORTER > Chicago Sun-Times > > A city commission Thursday recommended landmark status for Union Station, > Chicago's last train terminal to recall the grandeur of early 20th century > rail travel, and endorsed a plan to add 18 stories to the building. > > The Commission on Chicago Landmarks agreed that the proposal from the > station's owner, Amtrak, and development partner Prime Group Realty Trust > would preserve the station's architectural heritage and fulfill the intent > of its original designers, the firm of Daniel Burnham. The square-block > building on the southwest edge of downtown originally was supposed to > include a high-rise, but the railroads that owned it in the 1920s scrapped > that part of the construction. > > Amtrak and Prime Group proposed adding the high-rise in the middle of the > eight-story structure while preserving the Great Hall waiting room with its > ornate skylight. The high-rise, although massive in appearance, will have a > hollow core and won't block sunlight to the Great Hall. > > The design feature results in each floor being about 40,000 square feet, a > size the developer believes is best suited to today's market. The plan calls > for the tower to hold about 150 luxury condominiums, a 300-room hotel to be > operated by a division of Hilton Hotels Corp., about 480,000 square feet of > office space, and new stores and restaurants. > > Commission members and city officials lauded the design for its faithfulness > to Union Station's Neo-classical roots, especially its thick limestone > columns. The masonry addition would be the work of Lucien Lagrange, known > for his Park Tower hotel and condominium skyscraper at 800 N. Michigan and > for historic renovations. > > City Planning Commissioner Alicia Berg praised the development team for a > plan that respects the "monumental building'' while bringing it more > commerce. "Union Station must be preserved and protected as a tribute to the > critical role the railroads played in Chicago's development,'' she said. > > Still, the project, costing perhaps $200 million, faces enormous financial > hurdles. The market for new hotels downtown is dormant, demand for office > space is sluggish, and lenders are viewing condo projects with suspicions > about an overbuilt market. > > Prime Group President Richard Curto said he hopes work at Union Station can > start later this year and that the project will be timed for the next upturn > in the economy. He said financing details must wait until the plan gets > final city approval. > > The landmark commission's vote is a recommendation to the City Council, > which has the final say on the project. In addition, the Chicago Plan > Commission must weigh in on the plans. > > Curto said the project can be completed faster and cheaper than most > high-rises because no excavation is required. Union Station's foundation and > supports were designed for a high-rise. He said he hopes for completion by > late 2004. > > LANDMARKS IN THE LIFE OF UNION STATION > > 1913-25: Constructed for consortium of railroads. > > 1969: Train shed and concourse east of station torn down for riverfront > office building. > > 1989: Developers propose twin 24-story towers atop station. Souring economy > kills plan. > > 1992: Station rehabbed in two-year, $32 million project. > > 2002: City agency backs landmark designation and a proposed 18-story > addition for condominiums, offices, hotel rooms and retail space. > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000901c1b0e7$66f43960$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:27:24 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Tecate, Mexico Photo of Tecate depot: http://www.sdmrrc.org/Odds-n-Ends/TEdepotBW.jpg Preservation gets on track Groups in U.S., Mexico are joining forces in an effort to restore Tecate's decaying train depot By Sandra Dibble UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER February 7, 2002 TECATE - It's just a small-town train depot, the size of someone's house, worn down by years of neglect and vandalism. The ceiling is leaking, the wood trim ripped apart, the front door left to swing in the wind. Hidden behind the city's famous brewery, the 83-year-old building has quickly deteriorated since it was shut down by the Mexican government in 1996. Groups from the United States and Mexico are joining forces to save Tecate's little station, arguing that its unique heritage belongs to both nations. Beams of light poured through the broken windows one recent morning and shone upon the wood benches, the porcelain water fountain and the ticket counter with the sign that reads boletos. "This was a life, a whole style of life," said María Eugenia Castillo as she fairly danced from room to room as she considered the station's many details. "It's a building that takes you back." Castillo, a preservationist from Tijuana's Colegio de la Frontera Norte, dreams of restoring the building as part of a binational cultural heritage corridor built around railroads, dubbed the Iron Road of the Californias. The station's long overhangs and gently sloping roof make it a prime example of the airy, open Prairie style championed by the famed U.S. architect, Frank Lloyd Wright, in the early 1900s. The San Diego-based Save Our Heritage Organization twice named the building to its annual list of endangered structures. SOHO, in turn, asked for help from the Great American Station Foundation, based in New Mexico. "It's truly a treasure, a treasure for both sides of the border," SOHO executive director Bruce Coons said. This week, the Station Foundation named the Tecate Depot and four other stations to its latest list of Most Endangered Stations. It is the only station outside U.S. territory to be included, and comes with a $1,000 award to support local preservation efforts. The station, built in 1919, was an important stop on the 148-mile San Diego & Arizona Railway, which ran from downtown San Diego to Seeley, west of El Centro, where it met up with the Southern Pacific line. To save money, the railroad's owner, sugar magnate John D. Spreckels, got permission to lay a 44-mile stretch of track through Mexico, between Tijuana and Tecate. "The only reason it went south was because of the geography," said Erich Strebe, the foundation's director of planning and economic development. Passenger service ended in the 1950s, but the depot remained open through 1996 to serve freight trains. Two years ago, Mexico's federal government conceded the track and station to the state of Baja California. Today, under an agreement with Baja California, the Lakeside-based Carrizo Gorge Railway runs freight on the track. Cars loaded with lumber, plastics and regular shipments of hops and barley for the Tecate brewery stop at the empty station. In conjunction with Carrizo Gorge, the San Diego Railroad also offers passenger train rides from Campo to Tecate twice a month. Though U.S. support is crucial, it isn't just Americans who love the station. Mario Ortíz Villacorta, a Tijuana high school teacher, remembered the station in the 1950s, when his family rode the train from Tijuana's Colonia Libertad to Tecate for picnics. With few monuments to mark the region's past, "we have to save what we have," Ortiz said. Tecate native Víctor Ontiveros, now 55, talked about peeking through the waiting room's door as a boy - "I was too scared to go inside" - and waving at passengers as the trains pulled away. Now Ontiveros belongs to a Tecate civic group, the Comité de Defensa y Participación Ciudadana, which is fighting to restore the building. Politicians have paid lip service to the idea, Ontiveros said, but the cash-strapped city of about 80,000 has no money to spend on preservation. Milford Wayne Donaldson, a San Diego preservation architect, estimated that restoring such a station in California would cost as much as $360,000. But the Tecate station's location in Mexico, plus the use of volunteer labor, would reduce expenses. Donaldson found the station in good shape last year, with 90 percent of its historical fabric intact. But as the months pass, it is rapidly falling apart. A chain-link fence has failed to keep out vagrants and drug addicts, who have been tearing down the wood trim and burning it to stay warm. If the building is destroyed, said Castillo, the preservationist, a piece of the border's past will disappear. "This is regional history," she said. "The region doesn't end because of the border." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000f01c1b0e8$2b7b80e0$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:32:54 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) NYC Subway - Park Ave. & 18th St. 18th Street Subway Station Web page (with photos): http://www.nycsubway.org/irt/eastside/18th.html Subway 'Ghost Station' Could Become Restaurant February 7, 2002 The old subway station at Park Avenue and 18th Street seemed to blink as sunlight poured into its rusting hulk Thursday. It looked like anything but a place that might be turned into a piano bar. That's the dream of two New Yorkers who want to open a nightspot 30 feet under the sidewalk. "We want to save a piece of New York history," Tim Hunter, 42, said leading the way down a crumbling iron stairway to a platform lit intermittenly by the No. 6 train rumbling by. Hunter and partner Barry Glick, 53, got the wild idea for a subterranean bar a few months ago after a couple of drinks. Such visions traditionally have a short shelf life. But Monday night they will take the first step toward turning the abandoned platform into a bar and restaurant when their proposal will be heard by Manhattan's Community Board 5. Thursday they poked a tiny flashlight into the gloom to describe the plexiglas wall that would separate customers from the subway noise - but no the sight of passing trains. "We hope to build two bars, one on the uptown side of the subway and one on the other," said Glick, who recently sold the West Side Camera shop he had owned for three decades. "And look at this," Hunter said out when the tiny beam of light paused to pick out an ornate sign that read "Women." "That's where we'll build one of the restrooms." They had the enthusiasm of prospectors who had found a vein of gold in a shuttered mine. "We"re going to call it the 'Six,' " said Hunter, who sported a "6" pin on his shirt. A Metropolitan Transportation Authority spokesman said the agency is talking with the partners and nothing would be overlooked if it means bringing new revenues in. Kelly Kinsella, district manager for the communiy board, said one problem facing the project is that the once-sleepy area along Park Avenue South is now alive with bars and restaurants, a concentration that has draw residents ' complaints. The 18th Street stop, decommissioned in 1948 with the expansion of the Union Square complex, is one of several so-called ghost stations, a dusty group that includes City Hall, shuttered in 1945, Court Street (1946), Worth Street (1962) and 91st Street on Broadway (1959). The closest bar-in-a-subway station was the underground incarnation of Siberia on the mezzanine of the IRT station at 50th Street, which was evicted after five years by Rockefeller real-estate types. "Tell those guys I wish them all the luck in the world," Siberia's owner Tracy Westmoreland said. "Because they're going to need it." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006801c1b10a$74951080$5b499a40_@_paul> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 20:38:14 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL - UPDATE How many minutes of sun will a hollow core in an 18 story building give to the skylight exactly? - -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Wagenblast To: RSHS Depot Date: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:27 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL - UPDATE Link to graphic of renovation plans: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-020207unionstation-graphic.graphi c Union Station high-rise gets panel endorsement February 8, 2002 BY DAVID ROEDER BUSINESS REPORTER Chicago Sun-Times A city commission Thursday recommended landmark status for Union Station, Chicago's last train terminal to recall the grandeur of early 20th century rail travel, and endorsed a plan to add 18 stories to the building. The Commission on Chicago Landmarks agreed that the proposal from the station's owner, Amtrak, and development partner Prime Group Realty Trust would preserve the station's architectural heritage and fulfill the intent of its original designers, the firm of Daniel Burnham. The square-block building on the southwest edge of downtown originally was supposed to include a high-rise, but the railroads that owned it in the 1920s scrapped that part of the construction. Amtrak and Prime Group proposed adding the high-rise in the middle of the eight-story structure while preserving the Great Hall waiting room with its ornate skylight. The high-rise, although massive in appearance, will have a hollow core and won't block sunlight to the Great Hall. The design feature results in each floor being about 40,000 square feet, a size the developer believes is best suited to today's market. The plan calls for the tower to hold about 150 luxury condominiums, a 300-room hotel to be operated by a division of Hilton Hotels Corp., about 480,000 square feet of office space, and new stores and restaurants. Commission members and city officials lauded the design for its faithfulness to Union Station's Neo-classical roots, especially its thick limestone columns. The masonry addition would be the work of Lucien Lagrange, known for his Park Tower hotel and condominium skyscraper at 800 N. Michigan and for historic renovations. City Planning Commissioner Alicia Berg praised the development team for a plan that respects the "monumental building'' while bringing it more commerce. "Union Station must be preserved and protected as a tribute to the critical role the railroads played in Chicago's development,'' she said. Still, the project, costing perhaps $200 million, faces enormous financial hurdles. The market for new hotels downtown is dormant, demand for office space is sluggish, and lenders are viewing condo projects with suspicions about an overbuilt market. Prime Group President Richard Curto said he hopes work at Union Station can start later this year and that the project will be timed for the next upturn in the economy. He said financing details must wait until the plan gets final city approval. The landmark commission's vote is a recommendation to the City Council, which has the final say on the project. In addition, the Chicago Plan Commission must weigh in on the plans. Curto said the project can be completed faster and cheaper than most high-rises because no excavation is required. Union Station's foundation and supports were designed for a high-rise. He said he hopes for completion by late 2004. LANDMARKS IN THE LIFE OF UNION STATION 1913-25: Constructed for consortium of railroads. 1969: Train shed and concourse east of station torn down for riverfront office building. 1989: Developers propose twin 24-story towers atop station. Souring economy kills plan. 1992: Station rehabbed in two-year, $32 million project. 2002: City agency backs landmark designation and a proposed 18-story addition for condominiums, offices, hotel rooms and retail space. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008e01c1b10c$f97c95a0$5b499a40_@_paul> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 20:56:17 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) NYC Subway - Park Ave. & 18th St. On my old map this reads 18th Street, why? OK, Worth is subway museum, City Hall is supposed to be museum.. Isn't there another closed station on the IRT at Prince or Spring? They could also use the closed H&M station at 18th on the PATH... Shouldn't honorable mention go to the restaurant (this portion was closed off in last few years) that overlooked the platform of the uptown IRT West Side local platform at Penn Station? Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Wagenblast To: RSHS Depot Date: Friday, February 08, 2002 4:33 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) NYC Subway - Park Ave. & 18th St. 18th Street Subway Station Web page (with photos): http://www.nycsubway.org/irt/eastside/18th.html Subway 'Ghost Station' Could Become Restaurant February 7, 2002 The old subway station at Park Avenue and 18th Street seemed to blink as sunlight poured into its rusting hulk Thursday. It looked like anything but a place that might be turned into a piano bar. That's the dream of two New Yorkers who want to open a nightspot 30 feet under the sidewalk. "We want to save a piece of New York history," Tim Hunter, 42, said leading the way down a crumbling iron stairway to a platform lit intermittenly by the No. 6 train rumbling by. Hunter and partner Barry Glick, 53, got the wild idea for a subterranean bar a few months ago after a couple of drinks. Such visions traditionally have a short shelf life. But Monday night they will take the first step toward turning the abandoned platform into a bar and restaurant when their proposal will be heard by Manhattan's Community Board 5. Thursday they poked a tiny flashlight into the gloom to describe the plexiglas wall that would separate customers from the subway noise - but no the sight of passing trains. "We hope to build two bars, one on the uptown side of the subway and one on the other," said Glick, who recently sold the West Side Camera shop he had owned for three decades. "And look at this," Hunter said out when the tiny beam of light paused to pick out an ornate sign that read "Women." "That's where we'll build one of the restrooms." They had the enthusiasm of prospectors who had found a vein of gold in a shuttered mine. "We"re going to call it the 'Six,' " said Hunter, who sported a "6" pin on his shirt. A Metropolitan Transportation Authority spokesman said the agency is talking with the partners and nothing would be overlooked if it means bringing new revenues in. Kelly Kinsella, district manager for the communiy board, said one problem facing the project is that the once-sleepy area along Park Avenue South is now alive with bars and restaurants, a concentration that has draw residents ' complaints. The 18th Street stop, decommissioned in 1948 with the expansion of the Union Square complex, is one of several so-called ghost stations, a dusty group that includes City Hall, shuttered in 1945, Court Street (1946), Worth Street (1962) and 91st Street on Broadway (1959). The closest bar-in-a-subway station was the underground incarnation of Siberia on the mezzanine of the IRT station at 50th Street, which was evicted after five years by Rockefeller real-estate types. "Tell those guys I wish them all the luck in the world," Siberia's owner Tracy Westmoreland said. "Because they're going to need it." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000a01c1b148$c5932100$311f0142_@_sprint> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 02:04:18 -0700 From: "Tom Fassett" Subject: (rshsdepot) Railroad Timetables I dug up some old timetables for Colorado (from 1919) and converted them to html pages if any cares to see them. I will post more as I dig them up. Here is the list: http://railmap.railspot.com/timetables/ Tom ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #282 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <171.88769b5.2996836f_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 08:51:43 EST From: PifyJtrain_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) NYC Subway - Park Ave. & 18th St. The restaurant is a pizza store and is still open ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004801c1b185$1d9a4220$168f13cf_@_lner4472> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 11:16:20 -0500 From: "Alexander D. Mitchell IV" Subject: (rshsdepot) Amtrak to place hotel in Baltimore Penn Station http://www.sunspot.net/business/bal-bz.amtrak08feb08.story Amtrak set to put hotel in station 72 rooms would occupy present upstairs offices; Site ownership in question; Oversight panel's report calls for sweeping changes By Meredith Cohn Sun Staff February 8, 2002 Amtrak said yesterday that it will move ahead with plans to build a 72-room hotel inside Baltimore's historic Pennsylvania Station at a time when it may be in danger of losing control of its Northeast Corridor real estate. Whether Amtrak might lose ownership of the local station and others in the corridor came into question yesterday after a federal oversight panel presented a report to Congress that called for sweeping changes in the operations of the nation's passenger railroad. The panel, called the Amtrak Reform Council, has been advising Amtrak on how it might improve service and wean itself from federal subsidies, which have amounted to billions of dollars since its inception in 1971. The panel reported that Amtrak could not fix itself and others should be given an opportunity. Several congressional committees have begun pondering the report, which calls for creation of a federal agency to set policy and oversee two government corporations. One corporation would conduct train operations and one would own and maintain the real estate in the Northeast Corridor - - including Penn Station. Competition for passenger rail service would eventually be introduced. Such changes would require legislative approval - and the proposals in the council's report could be altered or rejected. A spokeswoman says Amtrak would move ahead with its own cost-cutting measures, possibly eliminating long-distance routes outside the Washington-Boston corridor, but that it plans to honor all of its real estate deals in the meantime. Amtrak signed an agreement with a local developer to build a moderately priced hotel in Penn Station that would open in 2003 in the second-, third- and fourth-floor offices. "We are proceeding as normal. There is an agreement in play," said Amtrak spokeswoman Cecelia Cummings. "The ARC plan has not been finalized. It's in the hands of Congress." Cummings acknowledged that the air of uncertainty could lead some of Amtrak's business partners to question their relationships with the railroad. Some may face difficulty obtaining financing for development projects because changes at the railroad could come in the middle of the construction process, she said. Amtrak had sought a developer for a hotel at Penn Station about two years ago after looking for ways to use its assets to increase revenue. The arrangement with Columbia-based James M. Jost & Co. Inc. would be the first of its kind in the Northeast Corridor, the railroad's busiest with 13 million people riding in the last fiscal year. Amtrak also plans to build a hotel near its station in Philadelphia. Jost expects to begin construction inside the station on a moderately priced, $5 million hotel next summer and spend a year converting the offices to guestrooms. The 72 rooms will be accessible from an elevator in the station's lobby. "We're diligently working with Amtrak to relocate people," said James M. Jost, the company's owner. About 100 police, customer service and maintenance workers will have to be moved to other Amtrak offices to accommodate the construction. Jost would own the hotel and lease the space from Amtrak, provided the economy and financing troubles do not crush the project, and a hotel brand is found for the facility. But Amtrak may not be the landlord once the hotel is built. The oversight panel concluded that the railroad should not own real estate and other assets. "Amtrak has proven that it cannot focus effectively on its core mission of running trains and running them well," said ARC chairman Gilbert E. Carmichael in the report. "And under current law, there is no one who can hold the railroad accountable. Amtrak has too much to do and does little of it well. "In addition, the council believes separating the Northeast Corridor infrastructure from Amtrak's trains operating company is a must. Owning the Northeast Corridor is not good for Amtrak's financial statements and the Northeast Corridor is not benefiting by being owned by Amtrak." Copyright =A9 2002, The Baltimore Sun ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001701c1b186$b03ff4c0$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 11:27:37 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Kirkfield, ON From the Canadian Railways group: Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 03:36:51 -0000 From: "rlkennedy27" Subject: Kirkfield Station Destroyed by Fire The other day the long-abandoned CNR Kirkfield Ontario station was destroyed by fire. It had been used as a summer home for a Toronto resident for many years, but was poorly maintained. It may have had a new owner in recent years and been repaired. This line was once the narrow gauge Toronto & Nipissing and the station was the original one. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000f01c1b1a5$b7e8ebe0$bc37e943_@_default> References: <000a01c1b148$c5932100$311f0142_@_sprint> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 14:09:41 -0600 From: "Verne and Joan Brummel" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Railroad Timetables Hi Tom, Thanks for posting those timetables! I enjoyed looking at them, especially the RGS, SN and DRG lines around Durango. LaVerne Brummel - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Fassett To: Tom Fassett Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 3:04 AM Subject: (rshsdepot) Railroad Timetables > I dug up some old timetables for Colorado (from 1919) and converted them > to html pages if any cares to see them. I will post more as I dig them > up. > Here is the list: > > http://railmap.railspot.com/timetables/ > > Tom > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000901c1b1d4$be566280$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 20:46:21 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Frostburg, MD Links to depot photos: http://www.pecoraengineering.com/images/frostburg.jpg http://www.trainweb.org/midrail/Photos/WMSRPhotos/wmsr2257.jpg http://www.wmsr.com/images/12c.jpg http://www.qsl.net/wd8rif/img/frostburg_depot.jpg http://www.stanly.cc.nc.us/cpe/CosgroCE/maryland1.jpg Fine print delays eatery deal at Depot Clause stipulates that only train riders, hikers could eat at restaurant SAM SHAWVER Cumberland Times-News Staff Writer FROSTBURG -- Plans to open a steak and seafood restaurant at the Frostburg Depot were put on hold this week after county officials discovered some fine print in a memorandum of understanding that would prevent the eating establishment from serving anyone but train riders and future travelers on a currently non-existent hiking trail. "I never dreamed there would be such a clause," said County Administrator Vance Ishler. On Thursday he told the county commissioners that the 1998 memorandum of understanding was established with the Maryland State Highway Administration, Maryland Department of the Environment, Maryland Department of Natural Resources and Maryland Historical Trust. The document stipulates that a lease agreement for the depot facility should contain a clause restricting any restaurant's business to Western Maryland Scenic Railroad passengers, future hikers on the proposed Allegheny Highlands Trail, and during special festivals or holidays. "At the time there was concern that if the scenic railroad made a deal with a caterer, you would have competition with other area merchants," said County Attorney Bill Rudd. He added that the county would clearly violate the memorandum of understanding if it entered into a lease agreement that allowed a restaurant to market its business to the general public with signs and other advertisement. Last week the county commissioners received a proposal to operate "an American-style restaurant with a railroad theme and decor" from John M. Martin, owner of Mountain City Cabinets in Grahamtown, and Mike Zheng who owns the Eastern Express Chinese restaurant in Frostburg. Martin said the depot had not been used for more than a year, but he believed a restaurant would be successful at that location. With the county's blessing and some repairs and upgrades to the building and existing equipment, he hoped to have the business open by April or May. During Thursday's meeting Rudd noted that the scenic railroad board sought bids for a business at the depot in 1999, but there were no takers. "We have two options," said Ishler. "We can leave the situation as it is, or we could go back to the four state agencies and renegotiate the memorandum of understanding. I recommend contacting the agencies to see if they're willing to make a change. "The county needs to find something to go in there," he added. "And we have no other alternatives at this time." Ishler said allowing the depot to remain empty also costs the taxpayers to keep the facility maintained. He said Martin and Zheng would locate their proposed restaurant elsewhere if the depot was not available. The commissioners agreed with Ishler's recommendation to contact the state agencies about changing the memorandum of understanding. The county purchased the Old Depot Restaurant from James Oberhaus in April 1998 for $598,500. State grants provided the majority of the funding, but county officials took out a $150,000 loan from the Western Maryland Historic Trust at 1 percent interest to help pay for their portion of the cost. Under a lease agreement with the county that same year, the railroad pays $1,500 annually for the depot, which covers interest on the loan. The agreement also states that the lease rate can be increased to pay off the principal on the loan when the railroad becomes a profitable enterprise. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003401c1b1fc$948f9fc0$6cdfd23f_@_paul> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 01:31:30 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) NYC Subway - Park Ave. & 18th St. Yeah, it is open, but the area where you could eat and look out onto the platform and station is now inaccessible and blocked off inside the restaurant - -----Original Message----- From: PifyJtrain_@_aol.com To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Saturday, February 09, 2002 8:52 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) NYC Subway - Park Ave. & 18th St. >The restaurant is a pizza store and is still open > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #283 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000c01c1b26d$35ddeb00$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:57:45 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Lafayette, IN Photo links: http://www.lafayette-online.com/vtour/DAYAR2.jpg (daytime aerial photo) http://www.lafayette-online.com/vtour/NIGHTAR2.jpg (night aerial photo) http://www.ldr-int.com/3a2_lafayette_body.htm (Web page about restoration w/photo) http://architecture.hntb.com/images/8b2_bigfour.jpg (exterior photo) Depot investment still worthwhile, Lafayette officials say By Jeff Parrott, Journal and Courier In 1994, Lafayette city officials undertook the mammoth job of relocating the Big Four Depot, outfitting it with elevators and installing a pedestrian walk so people could reach Amtrak trains on newly relocated rails. In campaigning against former Mayor James Riehle in 1995, current Mayor Dave Heath criticized the depot project's $8.1 million cost, about $1.6 million of which was paid by the city, as an example of frivolous city spending. Should Amtrak discontinue service through Lafayette, all that expensive infrastructure will suddenly become unnecessary. Even so, city officials say, the project was worthwhile and will continue to prove useful into the future. That's because the depot and adjoining Riehle Plaza have emerged as a busy community center, regardless of what Amtrak decides to do. "We'll still have the bus connections, child care center, plaza and all that stuff," said city redevelopment director Sherry McLauchlan. "I mean, it would be a loss but that doesn't mean it's not going to be used." Liz Solberg, Lafayette railroad relocation director, agreed. "Sure, we certainly hope this will increasingly be used for a train station," said Solberg, referring to her hopes to someday bring high-speed rail through Lafayette. "But it's just one of many functions going on in this area." Before it was moved in 1994, the Victorian-era Big Four Depot stood at South and Second streets for 92 years. Reduction in passenger rail service over the years had stranded it from passenger traffic. The only remaining passenger train, operated by Amtrak, ran down the middle of Fifth Street. Railroad relocation changed that. The CSX rails that Amtrak used were relocated closer to the Wabash River. The Big Four Depot, which was moved two blocks north to Second Street and Main, became a hub for Amtrak, the Greyhound bus line and Greater Lafayette Public Transportation Corp. buses. However, in 1995, just as the depot relocation project neared its finish, Amtrak reduced the number of stops in Lafayette from 20 a week to six. The schedule since has increased to 14 trains a week with two stops each day. A northbound train leaves the station at 6:10 a.m. and a southbound train returns to Lafayette about five minutes till midnight. On Thursdays, Saturdays and Mondays, the train that stops in Lafayette is the Amtrak Cardinal, which runs from Washington, D.C., to Chicago. On other days, it's the Kentucky Cardinal, a smaller version that shuttles between Louisville and Chicago. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #284 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000501c1b2e8$37158ac0$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 05:38:16 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Panama City, FL After the 1924 fire, a new depot was built (EDITOR'S NOTE: The last of two articles on the Bay Line Railroad and its depot in Panama City.) MARLENE WOMACK Contributing Writer - The News Herald The cause of the Atlanta and St. Andrews Bay Railway Depot fire on Jan. 7, 1924, was never determined. Those passing by a short time before the blaze saw no evidence of smoke or flames. But an investigation revealed that just before the fire began, workmen had unloaded the contents of three rail cars into the building and these pieces of freight may have in some way contributed to the blaze. In addition to the loss of freight, the fire also destroyed the company's second floor offices, which included most of its reports, ledgers and contracts along with the railroad's four safes. F.A. Black held the insurance on the structure. But railroad officials estimated the damage between $10,000 to $30,000 above the insured amount. REBUILDING THE DEPOT Two years prior to the depot fire, the state Railway Commission had ordered the A & St. A.B.R.W., which by then was referred to as the Bay Line, to build a new station north of what was described then as the "Boulevard Highway," now U.S. Bus. 98. A contract also existed between the railroad and the Gulf Coast Development Co., which deeded the land for a new railroad terminal and dock. With its offices gone, the railroad faced an immediate need for temporary quarters. Members of the Panama City Woman's Club convened for an emergency meeting and offered the use of the lower story of their building, now the Elks Lodge on Beach Drive. Associates in Dothan, Ala., also pledged $25,000 if the railroad would move its general offices to their town. If necessary, the railroad also had the option of using part of the Pines Hotel. At a meeting held Jan. 24, 1924, W.C. Sherman, vice president of the railroad, thanked everyone but declined all offers. He said that the freight and tickets would be handled at the old Steele-Powers building, east of the burned depot. The second floor of the March Boarding House on Harrison Avenue, just south of Joyce's Store, would serve as the temporary general offices of the railroad. Sherman also explained that within 60 days the railroad expected to have a new two-story depot on the east side of the tracks on Sixth Street. An architect had designed this new building with a foundation of cement and a fireproof vault that extended from the ground to the second floor. But changes in ownership of the railroad soon took place when Southern Kratt, a subsidiary of the International Paper Co., opened its paper mill in Bay Harbor in 1931. International Paper purchased the Bay Line at that time. THE PINES FIRE Eight years after the depot fire, the Pines Hotel met a similar misfortune. Tex Gilbert, an experienced hotel manager, operated the Pines then. Minor C. Keith of Florida Properties and the St. Andrews Bay Lumber Co. owned the hotel. At 10:30 a.m. Tuesday, Nov. 22, 1932, a fire started in the west wing of the huge two-story wooden building from glue sparks that ignited the roof. Like the depot fire, the Pines Hotel blaze was reported as one of the hottest and largest fires in Panama City. Schoolchildren were dismissed early to watch firemen trying to save the building. Gilbert managed to rescue most of the furnishings and some or his possessions from the burning structure. The loss was estimated at $25,000, and the owners were said to have carried no insurance. THE DEPOT WITNESSES HISTORY During the first half of the 20th century, railroads still played an important role in this country. The Bay Line Depot in Panama City buzzed with excitement as trains arrived and departed not far from the center of town each day. In the 1920s and 1930s, the railroad continued to transport millions of pounds of mullet, red snapper and other fish from its depot to large inland cities. On summer Sundays or holidays, Bay Line excursion trains arrived from Dothan, Ala. The ride cost travelers $1 per person, round trip. These excursioners walked from the depot to the docks where they paid 25 cents for a launch ride across the bay to the large pavilion at Lands End, now the eastern end of Shell Island. In that location, they rented bathing suits for 25 cents and frolicked in the gulf. When they returned to town they paid another 26 cents to dine on fresh seafood in the Alabama or one of the other hotels. Then they made their way back to the depot to catch the return train to Dothan. Train service was also popular with college students returning to Tallahassee or Gainesville over the holidays or summer vacations. With the railroad still one of the main forms of transportation in the pre-World War II era, the Bay Line often transported caskets filled with the remains of Northern residents or visitors, desirous of burial in their home states. Several of the men who drowned in the collapse of a cassion at the DuPont Bridge construction site on East Bay in January 1928 were returned to their homes in Michigan and Wisconsin by rail. During hurricanes, such as the ones that occurred in 1926, 1929 and 1936, large sections of downtown Panama City flooded, including the area near the depot. Tracks were washed out in some locations. After the 1929 storm passed, thousands of barrels of rotting fish covered the beach and the Pines Hotel grounds from wrecked fish houses or docks. Improvements in drainage were implemented to correct this problem. The hard days of the Depression were also played out at the depot when fishermen came in with thousands of pounds of fish but had no place to sell them. The dead fish were tossed back in the bay. DAREDEVIL WALLACE CARSWELL On occasion, Wallace Carswell Jr., Panama City's "Tarzan of the Sea," met groups of people at the depot prior to taking them out on deep-sea fishing trips. Carswell was well-known for his daredevil stunts, which included fighting maneating sharks, when he wasn't running a fishing boat. He also appeared in several 1930s movies, such as Killers of the Sea, Palm Isle and Hurricane. After President Theodore Roosevelt died in 1919, his wife, Edith Kermit Roosevelt, restlessly traveled the country spending time at one place and another. In 1937, she arrived in Panama City, then was driven to the two-story, 16-room home she rented in St. Andrews after viewing a photograph of the property. While in residence in this waterfront home, she enjoyed long walks along the bay. During World War II the Bay Line handled up to 13 trains per day, some of them 100 cars long transporting materials needed by Tyndall Field, Wainwright Shipyard and the Navy base. Hundreds of men and women connected with these military installations arrived and departed the depot each week. Trains left Panama City at 11:30 a.m. and 5 p.m. daily. Some days, tearful families and friends gathered to watch servicemen departing for overseas, some of whom they would never see again. Those who died in the war were returned home by train and taken off at the depot prior to funerals and burials. THE END OF THE WAR At the end of World War II, the Bay Line added Pullman service. But between 1952-1956, the railway experienced constant losses as other forms of transportation gained in popularity. When the Central of Georgia discontinued its train service between Dothan and Albany, Ga., the Bay Line had no choice but to end its passenger service in July 1956. The old depot remained and was used by other businesses, but now the building and its surrounding 11 acres are for sale. OTHER USES FOR RAILROAD DEPOTS In some sections of the state, old railroad depots nave been refurbished and serve as useful structures in the communities. In Bagdad, near Milton, the old Louisville and Nashville station has become a railroad museum, complete with the display of an old mortuary wagon used to transport the dead. Near the lake in DeFuniak Springs the old train depot is a welcoming spot where visitors can pick up literature about historical sites around town. And now the Panama City depot awaits its fate. Preservationists want to save this once important old structure steeped in local history and use part of the surrounding grounds for a bike trail and picnic area. However, the depot and its property could be lost, the same way most old Panama City buildings have been in the past. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005401c1b319$d62cd060$327ef2d0_@_lner4472> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 11:33:02 -0500 From: "Alexander D. Mitchell IV" Subject: (rshsdepot) Amtrak reform plan didn't end troubles Amtrak reform plan didn't end troubles Congressional hearing called regarding report urging rail's breakup - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------- Associated Press Originally published February 11, 2002 WASHINGTON - With Amtrak's future at stake, Congress may be finding that its previous attempt to turn around the passenger railroad had unintended consequences. A 1997 law gave Amtrak five years to end its reliance on operating subsidies from the government. Amtrak sought to meet that goal by devoting its limited funds to expensive projects that seemed to promise profit, such as its high-speed Northeast train, Transportation Department Inspector General Kenneth Mead said. That meant fewer dollars went to basic maintenance in the busy Northeast Corridor. And Amtrak borrowed money to buy cars and locomotives, piling up debt. "Every law that you pass has two reactions: the one you want, and the one you don't want," said Gilbert Carmichael, chairman of the Amtrak Reform Council, a congressional advisory panel. Amtrak President George Warrington told Congress on several occasions that the corporation was "fixated" on achieving self-sufficiency. He said the process forced the company to become more disciplined. But this month, in a plea for more federal money, Warrington called self-sufficiency "impractical, inappropriate and destructive" given Amtrak's backlog of needed improvements and its determination not to shut down unprofitable routes. Now, Congress is ready once again to take up the future of Amtrak and passenger rail. The House Transportation Committee has scheduled a hearing Thursday on a report by the advisory panel that calls for the breakup of Amtrak and the introduction of competition into passenger rail. Adding to the urgency, Warrington has warned that Amtrak will cancel long-distance routes unless it receives $1.2 billion in the 2003 budget year, which begins in October. President Bush has proposed $521 million. Mead recently reported that Amtrak chose to spend much of its capital funds from the government on its high-speed Acela Express service in the Northeast Corridor. That project received about $900 million from 1998 to 2001. Additional money went to refurbish existing equipment and stations to promote Acela. Mead said the money should have been used to reduce a $3 billion backlog of "minimum needs" maintenance. Because those funds went elsewhere, he said, Amtrak delays in the Northeast - as measured in total minutes - rose nearly 75 percent between 1998 and 2001. Also in pursuit of self-sufficiency, Amtrak borrowed money to buy equipment. That freed up federal funds but added debt. Principal payments on the debt are expected to grow to $126 million in 2005 from $64 million last year. The requirement that Amtrak wean itself from operating subsidies originated in a 1997 compromise in Congress. Congress provided $2.3 billion that had previously been promised to Amtrak for capital improvements. But it also ordered that, in five years, Amtrak "shall operate without federal operating grant funds." That period ends Dec. 2, but the congressional panel has determined Amtrak will fall short of fulfilling the order. Amtrak's ridership and revenue have increased since 1997 but not by enough. The railroad was about $335 million shy of self-sufficiency in 1997; this year it is about $217 million short. Amtrak's chairman, former Massachusetts Gov. Michael S. Dukakis, said self-sufficiency would have been achievable had Congress set up a dedicated source of capital funds for rail in 1997. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00d901c1b344$044281a0$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:35:24 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Washington, DC D.C. vies for rights to prime Union Station site Thomas C. Hall - Staff Reporter - Washington Business Journal District officials are negotiating with the General Services Administration to acquire development rights to the 15-acre site just north of Union Station. The federal agency faces a seven-month deadline to sell the development site, where District planners envision a large-scale project that would be built above the railroad tracks. Possibilities being discussed include retail and commercial development, housing and transportation projects. "The city is very definitely interested," says Ellen McCarthy, deputy director in the D.C. Office of Planning (http://www.planning.dc.gov). "We're investigating a variety of issues involved in acquiring it." The site includes two large blocks on either side of H Street NE, and it is the last infill development opportunity abutting Union Station. The site is flanked by two new federal agency headquarters under construction -- the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to the north and the Securities and Exchange Commission to the southeast. In the mid-1990s, the site had been touted as an alternative location for the new Washington Convention Center, now under construction eight blocks to the west. The site recently has been evaluated by city officials for future sports facilities. It's too small for baseball, but it's something to look at for the Olympics," says Bobby Goldwater, president of the D.C. Sports and Entertainment Commission. "This requires a little thinking outside the box, but it would be great for a field house, theaters or parking." Goldwater says the site meets the 15-acre requirement for a new baseball stadium, but it is bisected by the H Street bridge over the rail corridor. The largest block on the north side is about 9 acres, the southern portion is 6 acres. City officials also are discussing possible projects that would make Union Station even more of a transportation hub than it is now. The station sits atop a rail corridor used by passenger and freight trains operated by Amtrak, Metro, Maryland Rail Commuter (MARC), Virginia Railway Express (VRE) and CSX. The air rights site behind it is two blocks east of a proposed link between Interstate 395 and Union Station. GSA spokeswoman Viki Reath says Congress in 1997 ordered the agency to sell the rights over the 15-acre tract at "fair market value," with the proceeds going to the Treasury. At the time, the site was owned by Amtrak, which relinquished development rights to the site as part of a massive federal bailout. Congress set a deadline of Sept. 30 for the sale, a deadline that has both federal and D.C. officials scrambling to determine its value. "We're having an appraisal done in the next two weeks, and that will determine our basis for negotiation with GSA," says ElChino Martin, chief of staff for Deputy Mayor Eric Price. GSA studies of the site indicate that 1.1 million square feet of office space could be built on five levels at the site. But experts estimate it would cost more than $100 million just to prepare the site for development. "The economics probably dictate that the only real buyer is the D.C. government," says a developer who has reviewed plans for the site. "The cost of creating the platform over the tracks would be huge," he says, as much as $300 per square foot. "There's a built-in `land cost' of over $60 per square foot before you pay GSA anything." The supply of large, buildable sites downtown is drying up, forcing developers to think creatively. Another air-rights deal that closed recently is a project to build several floors of office space above the Hecht's department store at 12th and G streets NW. District officials say the proposed air rights development would provide an important link between residential areas east of Union Station with the North Capitol Street commercial corridor to the west. It also would augment the city's current thrust to spur new, mixed-use development in NoMa, the area north of Massachusetts Avenue. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003a01c1b376$b78760a0$c14ef6d1_@_paul> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:38:08 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Subway Tavern From the 10/28/1904 New York Times reporting on the opening of the first NY subway the day before. From the column sidebar "Things Seen and Heard Along the Underground" "Congressman Robert Baker, the man who wouldn't take a pass from the B. and O. was on the official train. A Republican fellow-passenger regarded him for some time with a malevolent glare, and then, touching him on the shoulder, said in icy accents: 'Mr. Baker, did you pay for this ride?' Of course, everybody on that train was riding free. Baker gave a melodramatic start and hissed: 'Detected!'" Not only does this show that the Times did not always use the pretentious "Mr." every time a name was mentioned (they also said "dived" instead of "dove", "ensurance" instead of "insurance", but that's another story), but shows the political "scandal" is always with us. There was also this interesting item, (in re to the report of a restaurant to maybe be on the abandoned 18th Street Lexington line, and the closed off Sabros area that overlooked the Penn Station IRT downtown platform): "When the official train passed Bleecker Street, where the Subway Tavern is, everybody let out a cheer, but the train didn't stop. 'The train slowed down a little, however," observed one passenger, "expecting that Bishop Potter would come aboard." A few weeks later I saw an article on Bishop Potter supporting this Subway Tavern, but I saw no reference anywhere about it, Does any one know about this subway saloon, how long it lasted, or any information? Paul Luchter ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005301c1b377$3407efa0$c14ef6d1_@_paul> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:41:36 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Staten Island Terminal of the Municipal Ferry 1906 NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo SITerminal.jpg (image/jpeg, 156366 bytes) Here we have a schematic of the new 1906 Municipal Ferry Terminal at St. George, Staten island, New York City. This is from an advertising page from the Sunday, December 9, 1906 New York Times. I am sorry it was impossible to make a good copy of the picture of this terminal, the microfilming of the newspaper color photos is notoriously and famously awful-that most of these original newspapers were thrown away is regrettable. All the color magazine and newspaper photos, fashion drawings, cartoons, etceteras are lost for all time because of this. This particular microfilmed page made a muddy mess of the Terminal ferry slip side photo and the lightest I could print it was inefficient for viewing purposes. Suffice it to say it was a classic turn of the century style copper clad structure, very similar to those at the DL&W terminal at Hoboken, no doubt because it was being built at this date (it wasn't opened yet) by The Snare & Triest Company, Contractors. Quoting the photo's caption, "This well-known contracting company is also building the new terminal for the Lackawanna Railroad at Hoboken; new subway station at the New York end of the Williamsburg Bridge, and also many other important contracts in the United States and Cuba." What is neat when you go back and read the original sources is that everything old is new again. Is the subway station the subway-trolley station at Delancey, now called Essex Street? A good example of this type of terminal surviving today is the old ferry terminal just north of the current Staten Island Ferry Terminal in Manhattan, last used for ferries to Governors Island. I do not know when this 1906 Staten Island terminal was redone into the dull terminal of today in St. George, nor if it followed the plan here of half of it past the bulkhead (similar to in Hoboken). I do know that the current Staten Island Rapid Transit part of this terminal is probably a remnant of this building, as it has old fashioned tiles, though I do not know for sure. That would be the tracks on the left; the North side passenger service (tracks and platform on the right) was discontinued sometime in the mid 1950s, I don't know the exact date, nor that for the ending of the trolley on Staten Island. I will recap the ferry service from St. George: The Staten Island Ferry from Whitehall Street to St. George was run by the Staten island Rapid Transit (B&O) 1816 to 1905, by the City of New York 1906 to present, which also ran a ferry from Whitehall Street to Stapleton (north of St George I believe) 1909 to 1913. The Brooklyn and Richmond Ferry (69th Street Ferry) ran from 69th Street in Brooklyn (north of the present Verrezzano Bridge) to St. George. Brooklyn and Richmond Ferry Company 1912 to 1939, Electric Ferries company 1939-1954 [diesel electric, one ran to Governors Island until a few years ago, and possibly one is a restaurant now at Fort Lee] and the City of New York 1954 to 1964 (when I actually rode on it). There was also the New York Bay Ferry from 39th Street in Brooklyn (the South Brooklyn RR terminal?) to St. George, run by the City of New York 1924 to 1926. There were 4 other Staten island Ferries: Tottenville (at the southern terminal of the SIRT) to Perth Amboy [Staten Island Railway 1867-1948, Sunrise Ferries 1948-1963) One of these ferries was seen sinking off Perth Amboy for years, it is gone now, though the remains of the dock/berth in Tottenville are still there. The Bergen Point Ferry 1876 to 1962, Port Richmond to Bayonne [Port Richmond and Bergen Point Ferry Co. 1876-1937, Electric Ferries 1937-1945, Port Richmond Ferry Co. 1946 to 1948, Kill van Kull Ferry Co. "and others" 1948-1962]. There was the Howland Hook Ferry, Howland Hook to Elizabethport [NJ and Staten Island Ferry Co. 1896-1932, Sunrise Ferries 1932-1961. Lastly the Carteret Ferry 1916 to 1929 . Between Linoleumville (which has a freight branch of the SIRT) and Carteret ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00b301c1b37e$62693dc0$9842fd3f_@_0019873538> References: <005301c1b377$3407efa0$c14ef6d1_@_paul> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:25:13 -0500 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Staten Island Terminal of the Municipal Ferry 1906 > I do not know when this 1906 Staten Island terminal was redone into > the dull terminal of today in St. George Shortly after World War II, after a disastrous fire took out the old one -- one of my early memories, age 3 or 4 about 1946 or -7, was riding the SI Ferry with my father and asking him about the intense smell of burned wood in the air at the SI end, and his telling me there had just been a tremendous fire. Judging by the disaster they inflicted at the Manhattan end, the same thing would have happened at S.I. without the "benefit" of the fire. Steve Delibert ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #285 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001d01c1b3bf$9fa4fd00$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:20:13 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Redmond, OR Link to depot Web page with photos: http://www.co.deschutes.or.us/CDD/lrplanning/Historic/Redmond/redmonddepot.h tm Redmond rail depot could become eatery Published: February 11, 2002 By Trish Pinkerton For The Bulletin A local restaurant owner is interested in moving and renovating Redmond's historic railroad passenger depot. JC Puleo, owner of Puleo's Italian Restaurant, has told the city he would like to acquire the depot and move it to a site south of Wal-Mart along the railroad tracks. The location would enhance the south entrance to the city and would complement the fairgrounds and hotels in the area, he said. "We are going to do this," Puleo said of his plan to use the old Oregon Trunk depot as a museum and restaurant. He planned to meet with city officials Tuesday evening to discuss his proposal. "Everyone wants to preserve the depot," said Betty Borgen, the city manager' s assistant. But Friday, the city learned that the building does not belong to the city, but to Burlington Northern Santa Fe. Local resident Don Dunn bought the building with the condition that it be moved, so even though he gifted it to the city, ownership has reverted to the railroad because it was not moved by a deadline, Borgen said. "That's not to say something can't be worked out" with Puleo or some other individual or organization that might want to save the building, she said. The depot has been vacant for a number of years. The planned re-route of Highway 97 will make access to the depot difficult, and once construction begins, moving the building will become more difficult. The city has appointed a committee to either find a way to use the building in place or move it. During a meeting two weeks ago, the Deschutes County Historic Landmarks Commission indicated its first choice would be to leave the depot in place. Its second choice would be to move the depot across the railroad tracks or to some other location along the tracks, said Pat Kliewer, Deschutes County historic and cultural resources planner. Puleo said he has received a promise of financing for the project. "We're not asking for any public (financial) support," he said. He estimated the project would cost $750,000 to $1 million. "I think everybody will benefit," he said. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002601c1b3c1$7c68fd80$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:33:33 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Atlanta, GA Atlanta --- the little engine that wouldn't The Atlanta Journal and Constitution...02/12/2002 The obstacles to Atlanta's becoming a lively railroad center again aren't just tight money, a sense that trains are old-fashioned and a continuing zillion-dollar subsidy of the highway system. The obstacles to creating a new Union Station in downtown Atlanta aren't just legislative Atlantaphobia and a natural American reluctance to admit that Paris and London have something we don't. The obstacles also include a certain deadness of soul. A musty lack of adventure. A dryness and a dreariness where there should be fun, dreams and romance. Trains aren't just a useful way of moving people from A to B. As novelists, artists and moviemakers have known for years, they're also exciting and intriguing and occasionally luxurious and even beautiful. Think of Tolstoy (the trains in "Anna Karenina"). Think of Hitchcock and countless photographs and the echoes of rails and whistles in music. Trains are like mystery stories. Agatha Christie alone wrote "The Mystery of the Blue Train," "Murder on the Orient Express" and "4:50 from Paddington." Maria Saporta had a piece in Monday's paper describing yet another chance for the city and the state to seize the future and put together the logical site for a great downtown railway station. Acquire it soon, warn the experts, or else Norfolk Southern may sell it and related properties to developers who'll make a great station impossible. But the idea just sits there, despite the backing of numerous chambers of commerce. (Alas, the backers of the all-purpose train, bus, subway station insist on calling it a "multi-modal" facility. We need to return to the lovely and romantic language of train stations, of Grand Central and Waterloo and the Gare du Nord.) Maybe if more Georgia politicians could taste the trains of Europe, they'd get more excited about the prospect of passenger trains zooming about and linking Atlanta with Macon, Athens, Savannah, Chicago and L.A. Of course, there are bad trains, too, and we wouldn't want to inflict them on our pols. Certain New York commuter lines spring to mind. Certain fiendishly crowded Indian trains and Egyptian trains pop up periodically in the press (people hanging on for dear life, falling out the windows and so on). Yet even some very slow trains --- such as the one with wooden seats that used to (and may still) chug between Mexico City and the Yucatan via Chiapas --- have their sweet stretches. What some of our gray politicians and dried-up bean counters need to do is go off on a holiday --- by train --- and maybe have a drink, eat a feast, meet some strangers, fall in love, and go clicking and clacking and whooshing into the great unknown. Kenya's "Lunatic Express." The Trans-Siberian. The great glass-domed trains that cross the Rocky Mountains. The little trains that tootle comfortably through southern Spain, across the Alps, and back and forth between Pretoria and Cape Town. The bizarre trains that Paul Theroux rode through South America. Not to mention the ordinary useful trains that millions of people ride every day in --- trains suitable for reading, conversing, dozing, looking out the window and talking on the phone. You can take a walk on a train. Children love trains. Trains slice through the countryside more neatly than highways. There's a future for trains. Atlanta needs a new station. ccampbell_@_ajc.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <154.8d2b1d6.299a666b_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:36:59 EST From: PifyJtrain_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Staten Island Terminal of the Municipal Ferry 1906 The olld staten island terminal was wood and was destroyed is a fire ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000901c1b3db$945fca80$09d3ffd1_@_oemcomputer> References: <00d901c1b344$044281a0$16fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:40:15 -0000 From: "Gene Paoli" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Washington, DC Like I said, Air Rights.... Gene Paoli - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Wagenblast To: RSHS Depot Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 9:35 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Washington, DC > D.C. vies for rights to prime Union Station site > > Thomas C. Hall - Staff Reporter - Washington Business Journal > > District officials are negotiating with the General Services Administration > to acquire development rights to the 15-acre site just north of Union > Station. > > The federal agency faces a seven-month deadline to sell the development > site, where District planners envision a large-scale project that would be > built above the railroad tracks. Possibilities being discussed include > retail and commercial development, housing and transportation projects. > > "The city is very definitely interested," says Ellen McCarthy, deputy > director in the D.C. Office of Planning (http://www.planning.dc.gov). "We're > investigating a variety of issues involved in acquiring it." > > The site includes two large blocks on either side of H Street NE, and it is > the last infill development opportunity abutting Union Station. The site is > flanked by two new federal agency headquarters under construction -- the > Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to the north and the Securities and > Exchange Commission to the southeast. > > In the mid-1990s, the site had been touted as an alternative location for > the new Washington Convention Center, now under construction eight blocks to > the west. The site recently has been evaluated by city officials for future > sports facilities. > > It's too small for baseball, but it's something to look at for the > Olympics," says Bobby Goldwater, president of the D.C. Sports and > Entertainment Commission. "This requires a little thinking outside the box, > but it would be great for a field house, theaters or parking." > > Goldwater says the site meets the 15-acre requirement for a new baseball > stadium, but it is bisected by the H Street bridge over the rail corridor. > The largest block on the north side is about 9 acres, the southern portion > is 6 acres. > > City officials also are discussing possible projects that would make Union > Station even more of a transportation hub than it is now. > > The station sits atop a rail corridor used by passenger and freight trains > operated by Amtrak, Metro, Maryland Rail Commuter (MARC), Virginia Railway > Express (VRE) and CSX. The air rights site behind it is two blocks east of a > proposed link between Interstate 395 and Union Station. > > GSA spokeswoman Viki Reath says Congress in 1997 ordered the agency to sell > the rights over the 15-acre tract at "fair market value," with the proceeds > going to the Treasury. At the time, the site was owned by Amtrak, which > relinquished development rights to the site as part of a massive federal > bailout. > > Congress set a deadline of Sept. 30 for the sale, a deadline that has both > federal and D.C. officials scrambling to determine its value. > > "We're having an appraisal done in the next two weeks, and that will > determine our basis for negotiation with GSA," says ElChino Martin, chief of > staff for Deputy Mayor Eric Price. > > GSA studies of the site indicate that 1.1 million square feet of office > space could be built on five levels at the site. > > But experts estimate it would cost more than $100 million just to prepare > the site for development. > > "The economics probably dictate that the only real buyer is the D.C. > government," says a developer who has reviewed plans for the site. > > "The cost of creating the platform over the tracks would be huge," he says, > as much as $300 per square foot. "There's a built-in `land cost' of over $60 > per square foot before you pay GSA anything." > > The supply of large, buildable sites downtown is drying up, forcing > developers to think creatively. Another air-rights deal that closed recently > is a project to build several floors of office space above the Hecht's > department store at 12th and G streets NW. > > District officials say the proposed air rights development would provide an > important link between residential areas east of Union Station with the > North Capitol Street commercial corridor to the west. > > It also would augment the city's current thrust to spur new, mixed-use > development in NoMa, the area north of Massachusetts Avenue. > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001b01c1b41a$76025be0$b841f6d1_@_paul> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:10:25 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Washington, DC It seems that Amtrak got ripped off, the air rights over Chicago and Washington alone might be worth far more than whatever they were given in a bailout.. I think a baseball park with a bridge through the outfield would be innovative - -----Original Message----- From: Gene Paoli To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:43 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Washington, DC >Like I said, Air Rights.... >Gene Paoli >----- Original Message ----- >From: Bernie Wagenblast >To: RSHS Depot >Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 9:35 PM >Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Washington, DC > > >> D.C. vies for rights to prime Union Station site >> >> Thomas C. Hall - Staff Reporter - Washington Business Journal >> >> District officials are negotiating with the General Services >Administration >> to acquire development rights to the 15-acre site just north of Union >> Station. >> >> The federal agency faces a seven-month deadline to sell the development >> site, where District planners envision a large-scale project that would be >> built above the railroad tracks. Possibilities being discussed include >> retail and commercial development, housing and transportation projects. >> >> "The city is very definitely interested," says Ellen McCarthy, deputy >> director in the D.C. Office of Planning (http://www.planning.dc.gov). >"We're >> investigating a variety of issues involved in acquiring it." >> >> The site includes two large blocks on either side of H Street NE, and it >is >> the last infill development opportunity abutting Union Station. The site >is >> flanked by two new federal agency headquarters under construction -- the >> Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to the north and the Securities >and >> Exchange Commission to the southeast. >> >> In the mid-1990s, the site had been touted as an alternative location for >> the new Washington Convention Center, now under construction eight blocks >to >> the west. The site recently has been evaluated by city officials for >future >> sports facilities. >> >> It's too small for baseball, but it's something to look at for the >> Olympics," says Bobby Goldwater, president of the D.C. Sports and >> Entertainment Commission. "This requires a little thinking outside the >box, >> but it would be great for a field house, theaters or parking." >> >> Goldwater says the site meets the 15-acre requirement for a new baseball >> stadium, but it is bisected by the H Street bridge over the rail corridor. >> The largest block on the north side is about 9 acres, the southern portion >> is 6 acres. >> >> City officials also are discussing possible projects that would make Union >> Station even more of a transportation hub than it is now. >> >> The station sits atop a rail corridor used by passenger and freight trains >> operated by Amtrak, Metro, Maryland Rail Commuter (MARC), Virginia Railway >> Express (VRE) and CSX. The air rights site behind it is two blocks east of >a >> proposed link between Interstate 395 and Union Station. >> >> GSA spokeswoman Viki Reath says Congress in 1997 ordered the agency to >sell >> the rights over the 15-acre tract at "fair market value," with the >proceeds >> going to the Treasury. At the time, the site was owned by Amtrak, which >> relinquished development rights to the site as part of a massive federal >> bailout. >> >> Congress set a deadline of Sept. 30 for the sale, a deadline that has both >> federal and D.C. officials scrambling to determine its value. >> >> "We're having an appraisal done in the next two weeks, and that will >> determine our basis for negotiation with GSA," says ElChino Martin, chief >of >> staff for Deputy Mayor Eric Price. >> >> GSA studies of the site indicate that 1.1 million square feet of office >> space could be built on five levels at the site. >> >> But experts estimate it would cost more than $100 million just to prepare >> the site for development. >> >> "The economics probably dictate that the only real buyer is the D.C. >> government," says a developer who has reviewed plans for the site. >> >> "The cost of creating the platform over the tracks would be huge," he >says, >> as much as $300 per square foot. "There's a built-in `land cost' of over >$60 >> per square foot before you pay GSA anything." >> >> The supply of large, buildable sites downtown is drying up, forcing >> developers to think creatively. Another air-rights deal that closed >recently >> is a project to build several floors of office space above the Hecht's >> department store at 12th and G streets NW. >> >> District officials say the proposed air rights development would provide >an >> important link between residential areas east of Union Station with the >> North Capitol Street commercial corridor to the west. >> >> It also would augment the city's current thrust to spur new, mixed-use >> development in NoMa, the area north of Massachusetts Avenue. >> > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #286 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003701c1b47a$09c68720$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 05:34:37 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Cleburne, TX Recall derailed, talk of referendum By: Rob Fraser, Times-Review Writer February 11, 2002 The high-profile recall move by railroad history and Trinity & Brazos Valley Railroad Depot fans may not happen, and proponents are beginning to look at a referendum for term limits. City Secretary Shelly Doty said at this time the referendum issue will need to be researched before any information on the procedure is available. Railroad and depot buff Shane Hopkins, who is also a trustee of the Santa Fe #3417 Historical Foundation, said since he was informed by Doty the city charter does not require the city council to call an election to recall an official on the same date that there is a general election to fill the position that the official holds, the recall supporters are looking at a different avenue. He said he wants the referendum to limit local politicians to two terms of office, to become effective immediately, and he wants it on the upcoming May 4 ballot. Doty said she didn't expect that was going to happen. The recall movement started when the city was set to demolish the T&BV Depot. The order to demolish the structure was postponed at the last minute on Feb. 1 to give the city and depot owner Dan Roberts the opportunity to explore some last minute possibilities concerning the building. An opinion on the recall from the city attorney, Wade Adkins, said the city charter does not require the city council to call an election to recall an official on the same date that there is a general election to fill the position that the official holds. Of the three elected officials, the terms of two, Mayor Tom Hazlewood and Mayor Pro-Tem (Single Member District 4) John Warren, expire this May 4, election day. SMD 3 Councilman Earl Horton's seat will not be on the ballot this May. The letter said, "First, the term of office in which the petition for a recall election was presented will have expired, and second, it would be extremely confusing to ask voters to both elect and recall a candidate at the same election. In fact, it would be impossible because the two things are mutually exclusive." The letter said if sufficient petitions are presented for a recall election for Hazlewood and Warren at the May 4 election, the council will be advised they are not required to order a recall election concerning their positions. These positions are already scheduled to be filled by the voters at the May 4 election. The letter said, "Persons who desire to remove Mayor Hazlewood and Councilman Warren from office will have an opportunity to campaign against them if Mayor Hazlewood and Councilman Warren seek reelection at the May 4 general election." The letter also said, "It should be noted that if Mayor Hazlewood or Councilman Warren were removed from office by a recall election, nothing in the Cleburne City Charter would prohibit either of them from becoming a candidate in the election to fill the vacancy caused by their removal. Many city charters contain a provision prohibiting a removed officer from becoming a candidate to succeed himself. The Cleburne City Charter does not." According to the letter, a petition to hold an election to recall Horton on May 4, "would not be out of order" because the election to fill his position will not be on the ballot May 4. The letter said, "No recall petition shall be filed against the Mayor or Councilman within six months after he takes office." That is in accordance with the city charter, he said. Hopkins said, "Although I don't really know, I'm not a lawyer, just a concerned citizen, I guess it could be right, since this section of the city charter hasn't been updated since March 1950." He said he didn't think it was right for the recall supporters to be penalized this way just because the charter hadn't been updated. Both Hazlewood and Warren said the recall supporters certainly have the right to pursue the issue. Hazlewood said, "As far as I'm concerned, they can do what they want." He said, "My job is to do what's right for the city." Hazlewood said he will, when the time comes, order the building to come down. Warren said, "Citizens have the right to do what they think is right. That's what makes government work." Building owner Roberts said Thursday he hadn't heard from anyone in the city. "There's been no contact at all." When asked what he would sell the building and land for, he said, "I would take $30,000. But why sell it now?" ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Council to discuss T&BV Depot fate By: Rob Fraser, Times-Review Writer February 12, 2002 Cleburne City Council will consider an amendment of the uniform building code to permit a day care/kingergarten to operate above or below the first story of a building not equipped with an automatic sprinkler system. The meeting starts at 7 p.m. at city hall this evening. The council will hear a presentation by Johnson County Historical Commission archivist regarding the Trinity & Brazos Valley Railroad Depot issue. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003d01c1b47c$00781a60$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 05:48:41 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Martinsburg, WV B&O depot to become service center The Charleston Gazette...02/11/2002 MARTINSBURG - A former B&O freight station will be rehabilitated into a maintenance center for commuter trains serving the Baltimore/Washington area, CSX Transportation officials have announced. The circa-1881 downtown Martinsburg depot, which has been allowed to fall into disrepair in recent years, will be preserved and remodeled, architects working for CSX have told city officials. CSX plans to maintain the trains in Martinsburg, instead of running empty trains to Maryland for refueling, cleaning and repairs, URS Corp. architect Leonard Gilbert told the city Planning Commission on Wednesday. The state Historical Society has approved architectural plans, and architects are consulting with local historians, Gilbert said. The Planning Commission approved CSX's request after being assured by Gilbert that no fuel would be kept on the site. Instead, tanker trucks would bring 500 gallons to each train, Gilbert said. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001d01c1b4e7$bd8a7f60$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:39:53 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL Architect plans a Burnham revival February 13, 2002 BY DAVID ROEDER SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST Chicago's busiest architect has developed an unusual specialty--updating Daniel Burnham. When the time seems right for new office space downtown, two renovations planned by Lucien Lagrange are liable to proceed to the detriment of developers who build from the ground up. Last week, the Chicago landmarks commission approved Lagrange's plan to expand Union Station, adding 18 stories to one section of the eight-story rail terminal. In the plan advanced by Amtrak, the station's owner, and Prime Group Realty Trust, the addition would accommodate condos, a hotel and about 480,000 square feet of office space. Lagrange is working on a similar "topping off'' project for 175 W. Jackson. The building sits in the shadow, literally and figuratively, of the Chicago Board of Trade, yet it's one of the most massive structures in town. Lagrange is sketching a 16-story addition for one part of the 22-story, block-long giant. The proposal is just speculation at this point, but 175 W. Jackson's owner, New York-based Intell Management & Investment Co., has been discussing it with potential tenants. Union Station and 175 W. Jackson were designed by the Burnham firm. They were built at roughly the same time, with their first sections completed about 90 years ago, and exhibit the urban visionary's fondness for stately columns, grand interior spaces and natural light. Both got a Lagrange-inspired renovation in the 1990s. And happily for their owners, both were designed to accommodate the high-rise additions that Lagrange would give them. That means no excavations and no disruptions for the current users while the work goes on, producing advantages in time and costs. For Union Station, the addition would fit with the original's style, using masonry because it's not possible to duplicate the limestone from Burnham's time, Lagrange said. It would preserve the skylight of the Great Hall waiting room and create a shaft above it for another skylight visible to those in the high-rise. Lagrange said he'd match the cream terra cotta of 175 W. Jackson and make use of one of its two interior light courts. The project would add about 500,000 square feet to the building, an expansion of about one-third. With a $80 million makeover that brought in new mechanicals, 175 W. Jackson has done well in the market without being the grand slam its owners hoped for. The building is 85 percent occupied, compared with 30 percent in the late 1990s, while trying to sell a South Loop location to users who increasingly prefer Wacker Drive. Lead tenants include insurance broker Aon Corp., Harza Engineering and the trading firm O'Connor & Co. But add its prospective space to what will come at Union Station if the financing comes through and you've got a million square feet, the equivalent of a 50-story building downtown. With their classical flourishes, the buildings offer alternatives to companies tired of steel-and-glass austerity. BLOCKED 37: City officials were pleased last week that their developers' conference on the Block 37 project drew an overflow crowd to the City Council chambers. Under a city-mandated process, developers now have until March 22 to submit qualifications for taking on the site between the Daley Center and Marshall Field's. The plans calls for three finalists to be picked in April and a winner in May. NEW POST: One of Chicago's longtime real-estate executives, Van Pell, is now working as a consultant for the owners of Marina City's commercial space. Pell, formerly of Transwestern Commercial Services, said he is also establishing an investment group to buy undervalued properties in Chicago. HOUSING FORECAST: Analyst David Ricci at Chicago's William Blair & Co. LLC has concluded that home sales are likely to slip as the year progresses, with the extent of the downturn determined by interest rates. He said that could translate into weakness for home-improvement retailing by the end of 2002. So don't say you weren't warned. DOING THE DEALS: Julien J. Studley Inc. represented the Commodity Futures Trading Commission in its lease of 40,750 square feet at 525 W. Monroe. ... Prentiss Properties signed up four financial firms as tenants at 123 N. Wacker, led by a lease for 45,000 square feet to Man Group PLC, which took the top three floors. The 30-story building, which Aon Corp. vacated in its move to the former Amoco Building, is now 60 percent leased. ... Orix Real Estate Equities Inc. said construction is done at its 11-story Pointe O'Hare office building at Higgins and River roads in Rosemont. But with the suburban market in the doldrums, less than 20 percent of its 263,000 square feet is spoken for. ... Inland Group Inc. brokered the $3.15 million sale of an industrial building at 6 Territorial Court, Bolingbrook, to Illinois Paper Co. The buyer is consolidating from two sites in Lombard. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002101c1b4f6$a24a0900$c3b3f4d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:26:28 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL limestone is limestone, was it depleted, to duplicate it would take a few million years...? - -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Wagenblast To: RSHS Depot Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:02 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Chicago, IL Architect plans a Burnham revival February 13, 2002 BY DAVID ROEDER SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST Chicago's busiest architect has developed an unusual specialty--updating Daniel Burnham. When the time seems right for new office space downtown, two renovations planned by Lucien Lagrange are liable to proceed to the detriment of developers who build from the ground up. Last week, the Chicago landmarks commission approved Lagrange's plan to expand Union Station, adding 18 stories to one section of the eight-story rail terminal. In the plan advanced by Amtrak, the station's owner, and Prime Group Realty Trust, the addition would accommodate condos, a hotel and about 480,000 square feet of office space. Lagrange is working on a similar "topping off'' project for 175 W. Jackson. The building sits in the shadow, literally and figuratively, of the Chicago Board of Trade, yet it's one of the most massive structures in town. Lagrange is sketching a 16-story addition for one part of the 22-story, block-long giant. The proposal is just speculation at this point, but 175 W. Jackson's owner, New York-based Intell Management & Investment Co., has been discussing it with potential tenants. Union Station and 175 W. Jackson were designed by the Burnham firm. They were built at roughly the same time, with their first sections completed about 90 years ago, and exhibit the urban visionary's fondness for stately columns, grand interior spaces and natural light. Both got a Lagrange-inspired renovation in the 1990s. And happily for their owners, both were designed to accommodate the high-rise additions that Lagrange would give them. That means no excavations and no disruptions for the current users while the work goes on, producing advantages in time and costs. For Union Station, the addition would fit with the original's style, using masonry because it's not possible to duplicate the limestone from Burnham's time, Lagrange said. It would preserve the skylight of the Great Hall waiting room and create a shaft above it for another skylight visible to those in the high-rise. Lagrange said he'd match the cream terra cotta of 175 W. Jackson and make use of one of its two interior light courts. The project would add about 500,000 square feet to the building, an expansion of about one-third. With a $80 million makeover that brought in new mechanicals, 175 W. Jackson has done well in the market without being the grand slam its owners hoped for. The building is 85 percent occupied, compared with 30 percent in the late 1990s, while trying to sell a South Loop location to users who increasingly prefer Wacker Drive. Lead tenants include insurance broker Aon Corp., Harza Engineering and the trading firm O'Connor & Co. But add its prospective space to what will come at Union Station if the financing comes through and you've got a million square feet, the equivalent of a 50-story building downtown. With their classical flourishes, the buildings offer alternatives to companies tired of steel-and-glass austerity. BLOCKED 37: City officials were pleased last week that their developers' conference on the Block 37 project drew an overflow crowd to the City Council chambers. Under a city-mandated process, developers now have until March 22 to submit qualifications for taking on the site between the Daley Center and Marshall Field's. The plans calls for three finalists to be picked in April and a winner in May. NEW POST: One of Chicago's longtime real-estate executives, Van Pell, is now working as a consultant for the owners of Marina City's commercial space. Pell, formerly of Transwestern Commercial Services, said he is also establishing an investment group to buy undervalued properties in Chicago. HOUSING FORECAST: Analyst David Ricci at Chicago's William Blair & Co. LLC has concluded that home sales are likely to slip as the year progresses, with the extent of the downturn determined by interest rates. He said that could translate into weakness for home-improvement retailing by the end of 2002. So don't say you weren't warned. DOING THE DEALS: Julien J. Studley Inc. represented the Commodity Futures Trading Commission in its lease of 40,750 square feet at 525 W. Monroe. ... Prentiss Properties signed up four financial firms as tenants at 123 N. Wacker, led by a lease for 45,000 square feet to Man Group PLC, which took the top three floors. The 30-story building, which Aon Corp. vacated in its move to the former Amoco Building, is now 60 percent leased. ... Orix Real Estate Equities Inc. said construction is done at its 11-story Pointe O'Hare office building at Higgins and River roads in Rosemont. But with the suburban market in the doldrums, less than 20 percent of its 263,000 square feet is spoken for. ... Inland Group Inc. brokered the $3.15 million sale of an industrial building at 6 Territorial Court, Bolingbrook, to Illinois Paper Co. The buyer is consolidating from two sites in Lombard. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00f801c1b513$e6cec080$8e45fd3f_@_0019873538> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:55:59 -0500 From: "Ulster & Delaware RR HS - President" Subject: (rshsdepot) Telegraph sounder recordings? Does anyone know of a source for recordings of telegraph sounders? Preferably giving train orders, of course, but anything will do. Saw an ad looking for one in the current RLHS bulletin, and realized that from everything you read about an old-time depot, you've just got to have this sound going almost continuously in the background if you're going to make the place authentic. Thanks Steve Delibert ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20020214053457.16481.qmail_@_web11801.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <00f801c1b513$e6cec080$8e45fd3f_@_0019873538> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:34:57 -0800 (PST) From: Art Marsh Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Telegraph sounder recordings? Steve, Morse is still used by the various International Short wave radio groups. It was not too hard to run an Internet search on "telegraph sound file" One I picked up can be heard on this web page, http://pages.prodigy.com/MNPM98A/history.htm Click on the Blue text at the page bottom. Here is the resultant web page for my initial search. I found over 30,400 reference pages. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=telegraph+sound+file I'll be willing to wager that if you provided one of these folks the material, they might be happy to create a Train order dispatch for you. Never hurts to ask. Luck to you. - --- Ulster & Delaware RR HS - President wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for recordings of > telegraph sounders? > Preferably giving train orders, of course, but > anything will do. Saw an ad > looking for one in the current RLHS bulletin, and > realized that from > everything you read about an old-time depot, you've > just got to have this > sound going almost continuously in the background if > you're going to make > the place authentic. > Thanks > Steve Delibert > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #287 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006c01c1b54a$13147640$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:23:48 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Poughkeepsie, NY Photo links: http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/today/business/stories/bu021402s2p1.jpg (snack bar) http://www.rrhistorical-2.com/rlhs/images/namn02.gif (exterior photo) http://www.rrhistorical-2.com/rlhs/images/namn14.gif (track area) http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/pc/pics/metropolitan/19770616_13.jpg (trackside with Penn Central freight passing through & Poughkeepsie bridge in background) Station snack bar celebrates 2 years By Jennifer Karchmer - Poughkeepsie Journal Annette DeCaprio said it's too early to tell if the new Poughkeepsie train station parking garage, which opened in October, is helping her business at the snack bar inside the station. Either way, on Feb. 16 DeCaprio celebrates two years running Metro Coffee II, the train station concession stand. ''It's nice because we have a personal relationship with our customers,'' she said. ''We're like bartenders here.'' DeCaprio, 53, along with her sister-in-law, Terri DeCicco, rent the concession stand space on a monthly basis from Metro North Railroad, a division of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. DeCaprio, originally from Yonkers, also runs Metro Coffee I, the New Hamburg train station snack bar, which opened in June 1999. She lives in Hopewell Junction. Master study discussed Over the past two years, there has been talk of conducting a master study of the station building but no timetable has been announced. ''I've heard about that master plan for two years now,'' DeCaprio said. ''Metro-North wanted to get the parking garage done first. I do whatever they tell me. I have no problem with a month-to-month lease.'' Metro-North spokeswoman Majorie Anders said the Poughkeepsie station could benefit from a powerhouse tenant like the Seattle-based coffee company Starbucks, which recently opened a store at the Hartsdale train station on the Harlem Valley line. ''The Poughkeepsie station is a beautiful building with a lot of potential,'' Anders said. ''A master plan could include office space, a dance studio, art gallery, any number of things. We are going to be doing a study of that, what needs to be done, potential reuses.'' Charles North, president of the Poughkeepsie Area Chamber of Commerce, said he knows of no concrete plans at the moment for new businesses at the train station. ''We haven't really delved into the the concession and the snack bar,'' North said. ''I don't have any knowledge of expansion or refurbishing.'' Some customers say the snack bar enjoys steady business just the way it is. ''It gets real busy here in the morning,'' said Massa Sheriff, who commutes from Queens to her job at St. Francis Hospital in Poughkeepsie. ''They're really nice here.'' AT A GLANCE STATION SNACK BAR Metro Coffee II is open 5 a.m. to 3:30 p.m., Monday through Friday; 8 a.m. to 2 p.m., Saturday. The concession stand is closed on Sundays. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <007201c1b54a$d8f31060$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:29:20 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Sunnyside, NY Praise for Multipurpose LIRR-Grand Central Link By DONALD BERTRAND Daily News Staff Writer The Long Island Rail Road station planned for the Sunnyside Yards will be similar to the line's Woodside station, a top transit official revealed. Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney conducts a meeting at the Citicorp Building in Long Island City to discuss the East Side Access project. "This new station will be a station configured so that trains can stop at it not only in the peak period, in the peak direction, as they do today at Hunters Point Ave. in Long Island City, but both directions all times of the day," said Pamela Burford, the Metropolitan Transit Authority's director of planning for the LIRR East Side Access. The station, Burford said, would function "much more like the LIRR Woodside Station." The MTA official made the remarks at a meeting held by Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-Manhattan, Queens) at the Citicorp Building in Long Island City on Monday night. Called Federal Investments in Transportation for Queens, the meeting brought together a number of transportation officials and legislators. "In last year's appropriation bill, Congress put almost $15million in for the East Side Access, and this year I'll be fighting for more - particularly when we start negotiating the federal government's five-year capital program," Maloney said. The East Side Access project would allow LIRR trains to come into Grand Central Terminal, relieving Penn Station of some traffic and shaving 15 to 30 minutes off commuting time for those heading to the East Side. The planned new station would be on the LIRR main line, connecting with Penn Station. Sunnyside station would have a center platform and two side platforms with connections directly to the Queens Blvd. Bridge, as well as a connection to Skillman Ave., Burford said. "We have sited the station in a way that, ultimately if they chose, Amtrak, NJTransit and Metro-North could also stop at this station," said the MTA planner. The station location is "much closer to what we call the business of Long Island City and Sunnyside," Burford says. Pedestrian-Link Study "While it may appear that this station is in the middle of nowhere, it is really placed so that it can have a maximum level of service as possible and really function as an origin and destination station in its own right," said Burford, who has worked on the East Side Access for the past 11 years. The MTA, she said, also has started a Sunnyside station pedestrian-connection study. The study, which she also manages, will seek ways to connect the station's pedestrian traffic across the yard and link it to the existing Queens Plaza and Queensboro Plaza subway stations. The East Side Access project will create a new track and platform level below the present lower level of Grand Central Terminal. It will do that by making connections to the 63rd St. tunnel, built as a two-level tunnel - two tracks over two tracks. In Queens, a tunnel will go from the LIRR main-line tracks beneath the Sunnyside yards, where NJTransit and Amtrak store trains during the day, and beneath the Long Island yard known as Yard A, formerly used for freight service in Long Island City, and connect to the existing tunnel just north of Northern Blvd. about 41st St. "The lower level has been empty and waiting for the LIRR to make connections to it now for almost 30 years," Burford said. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020214053457.16481.qmail_@_web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:02:12 -0500 From: "Kenyon F. Karl" Subject: RE: (rshsdepot) Telegraph sounder recordings? As I remember the Morse code is somewhat different - and the difference in sound would be dramatic - between the clicks of a solonoid of an ancient land line - and the beeps of a relatively modern ham radio set. :-( - -----Original Message----- From: rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net [mailto:rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of Art Marsh Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 12:35 AM To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Telegraph sounder recordings? Steve, Morse is still used by the various International Short wave radio groups. It was not too hard to run an Internet search on "telegraph sound file" One I picked up can be heard on this web page, http://pages.prodigy.com/MNPM98A/history.htm Click on the Blue text at the page bottom. Here is the resultant web page for my initial search. I found over 30,400 reference pages. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=telegraph+sound+file I'll be willing to wager that if you provided one of these folks the material, they might be happy to create a Train order dispatch for you. Never hurts to ask. Luck to you. - --- Ulster & Delaware RR HS - President wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for recordings of > telegraph sounders? > Preferably giving train orders, of course, but > anything will do. Saw an ad > looking for one in the current RLHS bulletin, and > realized that from > everything you read about an old-time depot, you've > just got to have this > sound going almost continuously in the background if > you're going to make > the place authentic. > Thanks > Steve Delibert > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <012d01c1b59d$4ea343a0$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:17:51 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Atlanta, GA Funds proposed for transit station $2.6 million is put in midyear budget By DAVID GOLDBERG Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer For the first time since it was proposed a decade ago, a multimodal transit station planned for downtown Atlanta would receive state funding under a midyear budget adopted Wednesday by a key state House committee. Although House leaders called the $2.6 million for the train and bus station the most controversial item in their budget talks, it was hardly the only area of contention in this year of recessionary budget making. To add their own priorities to Gov. Roy Barnes' recommendations while keeping a lid on spending, House members horse-traded among themselves while carving out some of Barnes' projects. The full House is expected to consider the budget today. "This has not been an easy process," said Rep. Terry Coleman (D-Eastman), chairman of the House Appropriations Committee. The spending bill would add a relatively modest $21 million to the governor's proposed $1.4 billion construction package, to be funded with bond debt. The annual loan payments for that package would grow by about $2.75 million, said House Majority Leader Larry Walker, who presented the budget proposal to the Appropriations Committee. The midyear budget adjustment is traditionally the best opportunity for legislators to earmark money for "special projects" that benefit their districts back home --- sometimes labeled "pork barrel" spending. House leaders had vowed that there would be "virtually no special projects" in their budget, and under the narrowest definition that goal was largely realized. The House did add $38 million in bonds for construction projects at several rural technical colleges. Among them was a $10.6 million campus extension for the Georgia Aviation Technical College in Coleman's hometown, Eastman. "They're all on the state priority list," Coleman said of the projects. He said the Eastman campus had been inadvertently skipped over in previous budgets. The House budget also includes an additional $21.3 million for facilities at six colleges and $3.3 million for libraries in Berrien, Telfair, Toombs and Wheeler counties. Rep. Charlie Smith (D-St. Marys), the governor's floor leader, earmarked $250,000 to relocate boat ramps away from a city waterfront park in his hometown. House leaders cut some local projects, too, including $14.5 million for the Yahoola Creek reservoir and recreational area near Dahlonega, which had been recommended by Barnes. Also removed was $3.3 million to expand the golf course at Gordonia Altamaha State Park in Reidsville. House Speaker Tom Murphy had insisted that the project be deferred, Walker said. "It probably would not look good when we've had to cut so many areas to build a golf course," Walker said. Indeed, advocates for the uninsured had noted that the cost of the golf course exceeded the $2.1 million needed to extend health care coverage to 5,000 children of state employees who can't afford insurance but earn too much to qualify for Medicaid. Barnes cut that from his recommendation; the money was restored by a House subcommittee, but eliminated again later. The money for the multimodal station in Atlanta nearly met the same fate. While the governor recommended the $2.6 million for the project's first phase, House Speaker Tom Murphy, a consistent skeptic on rail projects, urged that it be taken out. After protests from the Legislative Black Caucus and lawmakers from Fulton and DeKalb counties, the money was restored, with the stipulation that it be used to acquire right of way and not for any construction. The state money is expected to leverage a much larger sum from Congress, which earmarked funds for the station several years ago. Located adjacent to MARTA's Five Points station, the multimodal terminal would serve as the nexus of suburb-to-city commuter rail, express and intercity buses and MARTA's bus and rapid rail service. In addition, the House proposal: Adds $5 million to provide grants to rural hospitals for equipment and infrastructure; Restores $250,000 in start-up funding for health centers for migrant workers and other low-income residents; Restores $600,000 to the Babies Born Healthy program to provide prenatal care to low income mothers; Restores $150,000 to fund Life Flight helicopters, which serve rural areas; Eliminates $873,354 in additional funding to cover the increased cost of vaccinations for uninsured children; Cuts in half $1 million in proposed additional funding for legal representation for indigent defendants. After the House adopts its budget bill, the Senate will take up its version of the midyear budget. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <031101c1b59f$39acfbb0$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:33:21 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) GASF 2002 Grant Application Package From the Great American Station Foundation website... 2002 Grant Application Package The Great American Station Foundation is pleased to begin accepting applications for our 2002 grant cycle. We offer these grants to help jump-start community efforts to revitalize rail stations as active inter-modal transportation facilities and for station oriented development projects. The Station Foundation does not fund the establishment of rail service, for-profit activity associated with stations, or stations that will not be used as a terminal for regularly scheduled public transportation services. Are You Eligible to Apply for a Grant? · Organizations eligible to receive Station Foundation grants include; state and local units of government, transit agencies, non-profit organizations, and community development corporations. Applicants should be able to demonstrate ownership or effective control of the station for a station revitalization project, or planning authority or status as a stake-holder in the case of a planning or station oriented development project. · To be eligible, your station must be located within the United States, and be served by Amtrak, commuter rail, other urban rail transit, or serve as an intermodal terminal for other transportation services. Stations which are not currently served by rail, but for which rail service is planned may also be eligible. Stations that will not serve as a terminal for regularly scheduled public transportation services are not eligible. For Which Type of Grant Should You Apply? · Seed grants are intended to give a community the capacity to begin a station revitalization or station oriented development project. Planning and design activities, development of business plans, public involvement activities, historic structure reports and title assessments are all examples of activities which might qualify for seed funding. The purpose of these grants is to bring communities to a point where they are qualified to compete for other funding, such as Transportation Enhancements or CDBG grants. No match funding is required for these grants, which range from $5,000 to $15,000. Approximately ten seed grants will be awarded this year. · Capital grants provide funds for station rehabilitation or other capital improvement projects in and around a station. Capital grants provide funding for rehabilitation of station facilities, for passenger facilities such as benches and street furniture, for interpretive centers in historic stations, and funding for the purchase of stations and depots. Preference is given to projects for which our contribution is a significant part, or for enhancements to a station project that add a mode or a use to a facility (e.g., adding facilities to accommodate intercity bus, bicycles or package freight, or to accommodate mixed use development at or around the station). These grants, which range from $15,000 to $30,000, require a dollar for dollar match from a local funding source. Only four or five capital grants will be awarded this year. Downloand grant application: http://www.stationfoundation.org/pdfs/2002GRApp.pdf Application Instructions Please provide a completed cover page along with a clear and succinct response to each category in the Application Outline appearing below. The entire proposal should not exceed ten pages, excluding attachments. Submit two hard copies of your application package, unbound, with attachments, plus one electronic copy on a 3.5” disk, CD, or ZIP disk in Word, WordPerfect, or Adobe format. Applications must arrive at our office on or before 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 12, 2002. Send your application package to: Year 2002 Grant Applications Great American Station Foundation 615 E. Lincoln Avenue Las Vegas, NM 87701 Questions? Contact Erich Strebe at: Email: estrebe_@_transact.org (please use email if possible) Phone: 505-426-8055 Fax: 505-426-8057 Application Outline I. Completed 2002 Grant Application Cover Page II. Executive Summary What is the overall scope of this project, and how do you expect it to impact the community in terms of transportation, economic development, and historic preservation? Who are the major project participants, and how will they work together? III. Station Information Who currently owns the station? Describe any issues or plans affecting the ownership, acquisition, or control of the station. Total square footage, number of floors, boarding tracks, tunnels, outbuildings, etc. Total site acreage or lot size. Current condition of the station. IV. Transportation Uses – Current and Planned Describe all transportation services available at the station, including the names and types of all transportation providers, the number of stops per day, and passenger counts (if available). What passenger services (ticket counter, lockers, rest rooms, waiting area, snack bar, parking, etc.) are/will be available at the station? What bicycle and pedestrian access and amenities, including trail connections, are/will be available at the station? How will this project affect transportation choices/ridership in your community? V. Non-transportation Uses – Current and Planned Please list and describe in detail all planned non-transportation uses of the station (i.e., museum, retail space, community center) including approximate square footage or percentage of space for each use. VI. Economic Impact of this Project Is this project part of a larger economic development strategy or program? Please describe. What economic benefits do expect from this project? How will you leverage this project to stimulate additional economic development in the station neighborhood and the surrounding community? Describe any plans for mixed use development in the station neighborhood How will this project enhance/detract from the immediate station neighborhood? What impact will this project have on communities of color/low income communities? What other community benefits, tangible or intangible, do you expect to accrue from this project? VII. Historic Preservation Issues Provide a brief station history, including the original railroads served, build date, etc. What is the architectural and/or historical significance of this station? Describe any station historical listings, eligibility, or intentions to have listed. Will the project restore the station according to national historic preservation guidelines? What issues may prevent compliance with these guidelines? VIII. Project Management Provide a general outline of your project work plan: Who will be involved? Consultants/ experts/advisors? How will you obtain and utilize community input on this project? Provide a projected timeline for this project, including construction start/finish dates and other major milestones. IX. Funding Plan Provide a rudimentary budget listing major project costs/estimates. Where will your funding come from? Name sources and amounts of funding already committed to this project. Name sources, amounts, and schedules of anticipated funding. How will Station Foundation funds be used? Please be specific. If you have applied for a capital grant, what is your local match source for Station Foundation funds? X. Operations Plan Who will operate the station after its completion? What is the estimated annual cost of station security, maintenance, and operations? What sources of revenue will be used to cover these costs? XI. Mandatory Attachments 1. Letter of support from your state DOT or transit authority assessing the transportation impact of this project. 2. Letter of support from each transportation provider clearly stating their intentions re the station. 3. Three good quality color photos showing full exterior views of the station. Please send both hard and digital copies of the photos (.jpg format preferred) on floppy disk, CD, or ZIP disk. Almost any photo shop can provide digital photo processing from 35mm film. XII. Optional Attachments 1. Letters of support from local community groups, businesses in the station neighborhood, and/or local officials. 2. Recent articles regarding the station. 3. Brief published histories of the station. Scoring Applications will be judged according to the following criteria: o The degree to which the project establishes, coordinates, and/or enhances use of intermodal transportation connections and travel services. o The degree to which the project will be used to leverage additional economic redevelopment and private investment in the station neighborhood, especially mixed use development. o The project’s integration of the station into the surrounding community. This includes links with historic preservation and/or community heritage, its ability to create a mixed-use environment that is pedestrian, bicycle, and transit-friendly, and extends beyond the station’s physical boundaries into the surrounding neighborhood. o The reasonableness of the project’s overall financial plan to satisfy both the initial development and the ongoing operating costs of the project. o The degree to which the project represents a partnership between public and private sectors, and the extent to which the community has been involved in project planning and design. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:06:59 -0500 From: "Kenyon F. Karl" Subject: (rshsdepot) FWD: Letter from Jim Coston of ARC: "The Big Lie" [northeastcorridor] Digest Number 295 Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:46:57 -0800 From: "Gene Poon" Subject: Letter from Jim Coston of ARC: "The Big Lie" Courtesy of Stan Brandt of the 20th Century Railroad Club: A letter by Jim Coston of the Amtrak Reform Council: "The Big Lie" - -------------------------------------------- Thirty-one years ago, as a teenager in Chicago, I testified at an Interstate Commerce Commission hearing on the Penn Central Railroad's application to discontinue its passenger trains between the East and the Midwest. As I listened to the testimony of the railroad executives, I realized why they had decided withdraw from passenger carriage: The United States government had got itself deeply into the transportation business and had gone into competition with the railroads. The government was building and managing a vast network of commercial airports, air-traffic control centers, superhighways and barge canals at taxpayer expense. These modern systems now were nearly complete, and they were overwhelming the helpless railroads. Several carriers already were in bankruptcy because they could not obtain the capital to match the productivity gains of the new government-owned transportation facilities. The Interstates and the airports did not make railroad transportation obsolete. Railroading is an evolving technology, and the railroads of 1969 - - like those of today - had the potential to achieve quantum leaps in productivity. But productivity gains require capital. Fresh, low-cost capital provided by government had made the nation's highway, civil-aviation and waterway technologies modern and productive. New high-speed, high-productivity technologies were being developed for railroads, too. But the American railroads were strictly regulated by government and privately owned. They had no access to cheap government capital, so they could not afford to build the new infrastructure and install the new technologies they needed to rebound and compete with the government's expanding non-railroad transportation networks. The railroad capital shortage had a particularly punishing impact on the passenger business, which is capital-intensive and requires billions of dollars in advanced track, signal and propulsion technology to become competitive. The new Japanese "Bullet Train" line had proven passenger trains could compete. But the "Bullet Railroad" line had been built with a $300-million loan from the World Bank, which did not lend to U.S. corporations. In order to cut their losses and relieve the strain on their freight business before bankruptcy engulfed the rest of the industry, the railroads had to eliminate their passenger trains immediately and totally and focus solely on the freight business, which can still function economically at lower levels of capital investment. To make sure government did not stall the passenger-train withdrawal process, the railroads created the Big Lie: Passenger trains were obsolete - - not temporarily on account of a capital shortage, but permanently due to inherent and incurable technological obsolescence. They had no future in the United States. If an annoying newspaper reporter or rail advocate brought up the Japanese success, the railroad executives would invoke the doctrine of American exceptionalism and dismiss high-speed trains as an exotic innovation, something that "won't work here" because of our "cultural problem." A year after the ICC hearings, Congress relieved the railroads of their passenger-train burden by creating Amtrak. In May, 1971, Amtrak began operating a skeletal network - approximately one fourth the number of trains that had been operated under railroad ownership. Amtrak took on this task without conviction or a sense of mission. Why? Because it was staffed with former railroad executives who had thoroughly embraced the Big Lie during the days of passenger-train elimination. Also implicated were non-railroaders like Amtrak's first CEO, who had bought the Big Lie from Amtrak's railroad veterans They believed passenger trains were an obsolete concept, that overseas success had no application to U.S. reality and that Amtrak would be shut down within three years. They also believed it was legislatively impossible for federal funds to be invested in the privately owned track of the U.S. rail industry. The message to passenger-rail advocates was clear: Forget about it. Don't bother. The taxpayers of this country will never support a modern passenger-train program and will not build a modern rail network to complement the nation's advanced highways and civil-aviation infrastructure. While it was rarely discussed openly with outsiders and never became official policy, the Big Lie became a tacit, semi-official doctrine inside Amtrak. I first sensed it when I became an Amtrak employee in 1973 and found upper management uninterested in initiating new services for which the customers had been asking the employees. I was always told, "There's no money for that. Congress won't support it, and the railroad industry doesn't want us running any more trains over their tracks." This doctrine has persisted over Amtrak's nearly 32-year life. Even Amtrak's most touted initiative, the high-speed Acela Express project in the Northeast Corridor, did not originate inside Amtrak. It started in 1965 as a collaboration between President Lyndon Johnson's new Department of Transportation and the Pennsylvania Railroad, which owned most of the Corridor. Amtrak inherited that initiative in 1977 when Congress restructured six bankrupt Northeastern railroads into Conrail and awarded the Pennsylvania Railroad's Northeast Corridor to Amtrak. The Corridor became the first track Amtrak actually owned. A third boost came in the early 1980s when the Coalition of Northeastern Governors pushed their congressional delegations to support a modernized infrastructure and new trains for the NEC. Very little in the way of initiatives can be traced back to Amtrak's own management. Almost all of the company's success can be attributed to programs, subsidies and even track and rolling stock contributed by state departments of transportation. That was the effect of the Big Lie on Amtrak's management. I encountered Amtrak's no-can-do attitude again starting in 1980, when the organization I had co-founded, the 20th Century Railroad Club, literally had to secure the intervention of the entire Illinois congressional delegation before Amtrak would agree to operate chartered group trains for our customers. Even after we demonstrated to Amtrak that it would earn large profits on these trains, which even today are the only consistently profitable trains in Amtrak's repertoire, Amtrak's bureaucrats in Washington dragged their feet and refused to explain why they were turning down lucrative business. Eventually one of the line managers in Chicago took me aside and explained Amtrak's anti-commercial behavior. "They're nursing the fleet," he said. "They're convinced Congress will never buy them another set of passenger cars or locomotives. We've been told to use the equipment as little as possible so it'll last longer." The Big Lie was still alive and well at Amtrak. Now fast-forward to the closing days of 1997. Congress has just passed the Amtrak Reform and Accountability Act and has authorized Amtrak nearly $1 billion per year in annual capital and operating assistance as well as a one-time capital grant of $2.3 billion to build up its track and equipment. But there's a catch: To get the annual-assistance money, Amtrak must persuade the Office of Management and Budget to approve the full amount. Still in defeatist mode and unwilling to engage in passenger-train evangelism, Amtrak never asks for its full authorization and passively accepts OMB's decision to approve an appropriation amounting to only half the sum authorized by Congress. This is repeated in each succeeding year. Amtrak's tradition of passivity now is taking a major toll on the company's future viability. There is only enough money to grow business in the Northeast Corridor. All other company activities are being starved to support it. Now fast-forward again to December 2000. Five members of the Amtrak Reform Council attend an Amtrak board meeting. At the end of the meeting, the ARC members offer to ask Congress to grant Amtrak an extra one-year grace period before the self-sufficiency deadline. The ARC members acknowledge that Amtrak's new high-speed Acela Express trains are almost a year behind in delivery and will not generate perceptible increased revenues in fiscal 2001. The Amtrak board rejects this offer, chanting in virtual unison that Amtrak not only will be self-sufficient by the 2003 deadline but will hit its target a year early. Fast-forward to early 2001. Interim reports from the General Accounting Office and the DOT Inspector General indicate that Amtrak has been borrowing money by mortgaging virtually its entire fleet of cars and locomotives. The company's debt, which had totaled $800 million at the close of 1997, has swollen to more than $3 billion. As a lawyer with a practice concentrated in equipment lease transactions and lease enforcement, I am extremely interested in learning the details of all of these equipment-sale/leasebacks. It appears at this point that Amtrak has been doing a better job of providing business for the nation's lenders than mobility for its travelers. Fast-forward again to the summer of 2001. Amtrak suddenly announces it is mortgaging its crown jewel, Pennsylvania Station in New York, for $300 million to raise immediate cash for operations. The happy-talk press releases predicting self-sufficiency stop, but when interrogated Amtrak continues to tell the media the company remains on the "glide path" to self-sufficiency in 2003. Finally, flash forward to where we find ourselves today. Amtrak announces that despite its nearly $4 billion in borrowed cash, it lacks the money to keep even its skeletal national system of trains running. Virtually all non-NEC operations will cease October 1. Interestingly, the one part of the system it says it will keep open is the part that it owns - the NEC. To justify this regional discrimination, Amtrak issues a series of news releases in which it claims that the Northeast Corridor is - in its words - "profitable," while all train operations outside the NEC - in its words - "lose money." Even more interestingly, Amtrak never issues any financial breakouts documenting the alleged "profits" in the NEC and "losses" outside it. Amtrak simply asserts the profits and losses as fact, and the nation's news media fail to challenge this latest version of the 1969 Big Lie. Instead, they assist Amtrak in propagating it and begin placing the words "money-losing" in front of the words "long-distance trains" in the same Pavlovian way they place "Libyan strongman" in front of "Mohammar Khadafy." The nation's transportation reporters seem to have forgotten the lost art of making that extra phone call. Amtrak would like us to believe its system has two parts: cash cows and dogs. But a review of internal Amtrak data indicates that virtually all of its trains belong to canine rather than bovine species. As part of its draconian cost-cutting effort, Amtrak says it will lay off 300 managers and 700 unionized employees. But many months ago Amtrak announced a cost-containment program that promised a reduction in the management force from 2,800 to 2000, and it followed that announcement with a complex musical-chairs exercise in which hundreds of managers had to re-bid for the remaining jobs. Thousands of hours of productivity were lost as demoralized managers struggled to guess how Amtrak would decide their futures. In the end, no jobs were lost, and the management ranks actually grew by 300 to a total of more than 3,000. Nor has Amtrak documented how the proposed shutdown of the non-NEC trains actually will save money. Most of the passenger cars involved in that operation are double-decked long-distance Superliners built for long-distance service. They are being leased back from lenders to whom they were sold for operating cash. Amtrak has not explained how it will keep up the lease payments if those cars are not running and earning revenue. The Superliners cannot be switched to the Northeast Corridor because they are too tall to fit through the Corridor's tunnels. They cannot be sold because there are few alternate markets for such unusual rolling stock, and the large number offered would depress any sale price to the point where Amtrak would have to sell them at a loss. It is 2002, and the1969 Big Lie of passenger-train non-feasibility is still alive and well at Amtrak - but with one modest change. Amtrak believes America now will accept and support rail travel - but only on about 600 miles of track in the Northeast. That tells me Amtrak as we know it has reached the end of the line. Last year, in yet another expensive effort to mask its deteriorating finances and organizational drift, Amtrak offered its customers a "Satisfaction Guarantee" program. Today, the only Americans Amtrak is satisfying are the aging railroad defeatists of 1969 and their contemporary progeny who continue to claim that America will not meet the challenge of providing its citizens with swift, safe, comfortable, modern passenger-rail mobility. Thanks to Amtrak, that hoary prediction has been fulfilled. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #288 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002e01c1b611$b3d0f640$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:12:48 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Bay Street, Montclair, NJ Lining Up For The Bay Street Station Wednesday, February 13, 2002 By KATIA RAINA - The Montclair Times It was once a simple site - a roofed shelter, standing on a small asphalt-covered area over the railroad tracks. But in just a few months, the Bay Street Rail Station will complete its transformation into an artsy spot, taking on a new role as one of Montclair's stops on the much-anticipated Midtown Direct rail route to and from Manhattan. Two brick-color towers already rise over the train station, connected by a glass-covered overpass stretching across the tracks. Each tower holds an elevator and an adjacent staircase, and will enable pedestrians to traverse the rail line between the eastbound and westbound platforms. Dark green fence around the station, matching canopies, and 52 light poles are already in place. Finishing touches are all that's left, said NJ Transit officials, and as soon as the Montclair Connection is ready to go, Bay Street Station will be ready, too. "What you see is pretty much what's going to be there," said Fred Schultz, an engineer with NJ Transit. The station's look was meant to capture the unique character of Montclair, said Virginia Seminara, an architect who was commissioned by NJ Transit to design the project. "What we tried to do was to use some of the materials that were characteristic of the neighborhood," Seminara said. "Like the cut-stone look and the 'orangy' color brick, we picked that up from the church around the corner in the neighborhood." NJ Transit and township officials promise more glamour, once the station opens. At the insistence of the township, three artists have been commissioned to do some work for the station. "One of the goals of the Montclair Arts Plan is public art," said Paul Ellis, the township's director of arts and cultural development, referring to a town-wide cultural program, now in the works, to foster the Montclair arts scene and promote the township's cultural identity. "And this is one of the first opportunities for public art that's come along," Ellis said. The art projects commissioned by the township for Bay Street Station include 50 concrete stools with ce-ramic tile bands to provide seating for passengers, ten circular medallions to be placed on the walls, and cylinders of glass, which will be embedded in spiral patterns on the concrete floor. On the westbound side of the tracks, right where the platform ends, instead of traditional railing, there will be a 12-square-foot screen made of stainless steel and adorned with railroad-related images - everything from wheels, to lanterns, to conductors. A Montclair sculptor, Tom Nussbaum, has just started work-ing on that piece. "There will be a real variety of stuff, just a lot of objects from the history of train travel," Nussbaum said. "In a way, it is reminiscent of a big-pieced quilt." Several plaques may accompany the work, providing the description and historical significance of each object on the screen, he added. The concept is for all the station's public art pieces to be connected thematically and artistically. The pieces are placed strategically around the station, so light would bounce between them in "all kinds of crazy light patterns," according to Ellis. "So the air itself becomes a piece of art," Ellis said. "This is going to be outrageous. I think people are going to come just to look at this station." The makeover of the Bay Street Rail Station has been a long process. The township spent decades fight-ing the state's plan to establish the so-called "Montclair Connection," which will link the Boonton Rail Line with the Montclair Branch of the Morris and Essex Rail Lines in the area around Pine Street, Bay Street and Glenridge Avenue. Opponents and proponents have long debated the impact of the Montclair Connection on the surrounding area and the whole town - a discussion that continues to this day. Almost four years ago, Montclair and NJ Transit reached an agreement in which the town assented to the Montclair Connection. The township then got actively involved in the station's design. "We worked with the town every step of the way," said NJ Transit's spokesperson, Michael Klufas. Township Manager Terence Reidy said the government's involvement was essential, because NJ Transit's original proposal did not match Montclair's aesthetic standards. "The design wasn't imaginative," Reidy said. "When you looked at it, it just didn't say Montclair. "But they graciously accepted our feedback," he added. Today, Montclair government has more plans for the station. Karen Kadus, director of planning and community development, said the township will provide a 225-space parking deck near the station, along with a covered waiting area for Montclair Connection commuters. Kadus said the project, which is part of the Bay Street redevelopment plan, will be financed in part by NJ Transit. "Our developer is going to incorporate a station area into the deck," Kadus said. "It's going to include several 16-foot-long historical benches that we saved from the original Lackawanna station." For the past several years, the benches have been stored in The Montclair Times' facility, 114 Valley Road. The developer, Lincoln Property Co., has not started construction yet, Kadus said, and it is unclear when the work will be completed. Even though trains have been running at the Bay Street Station - providing daily service to Newark and Hoboken, as part of NJ Transit's Morris & Essex Rail Lines - the station's platforms stood virtually empty on a recent cold afternoon. This will change with the very first train to Penn Station in just a few months, NJ Transit maintains. The transportation network's officials say they hope to open the Montclair Connection in the spring, de-clining to offer more details. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003401c1b612$fd9743a0$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:22:01 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Sweetwater, TX Gravity Racing Association seeks to restore historical railroad building By Kimberly Gray The Sweetwater Reporter News Editor The Gravity Racing Association of Sweetwater has expressed the desire to lease the T&P Package Express building that has been on the City of Sweetwater's condemnation list for over a year. During a city commission meeting Tuesday morning Weston Pyburn, the association's director, started off by thanking the city for taking the building off the condemnation list. He had asked city officials to do so over a year ago, because he believes the building has historical value for Sweetwater. If placed on the condemnation list, the city would give Union Pacific (formerly known as T&P) the option of getting the building up to code or demolishing it. "I believe they will probably demolish the building," Pyburn told city commissioners. That is why Pyburn and his organization wish to lease the building from Union Pacific and use the building for storage space for the Sweetwater Gravity Racing Association. "Other groups had talked about saving the building and nothing was ever done, so we thought our solution could save the building and help us as well," Pyburn explained. "We really want to continue growing the sport here in Sweetwater, and I believe extra storage space would help," he told commissioners. Pyburn's own building located along Oak Street can no longer hold all soap box derby cars and racing equipment. "We now store things at members' houses," he said. Pyburn addressed the city commission Tuesday to request for the help in getting them the lease. "We want the lease to be between the Gravity Racing Association and Union Pacific, but would like for the city to be our facilitator," he explained. Pyburn stated that he thought the city's influence and knowledge of the people involved would help the association get in touch with the right people and therefore help it get the lease on the building. The association plans to put before Union Pacific the possibility of the association leasing the building for $1 per year. "Once we lease the building, we hope the city will allow the Gravity Racing Association the time to raise funds in order to purchase materials to get the building up to code," Pyburn explained. The group plans to restore the building up to code themselves. He told city commissioners that he thinks they can get it brought up to code within a year and a half, if the fund raising campaign is successful. "If we are able to lease the building then it depends on the response from the community when we attempt to raise the necessary funds to repair the building," Pyburn said. "We will try to keep the historical integrity of the building intact when restoring it," Pyburn pointed out. He added that the association would terminate the lease of the building and allow Union Pacific to use it, if they need it for anything such as a passenger train service in the future. The Gravity Racing Association, which started out as having only one race, will have a total of five races this year during three weekends, according to Pyburn. There will be two full races each during a Spring and Fall Rally. The Spring Rally, which will be called the "Don't Mess with Texas Challenge," will be held May 11-12. The Texas Midwest Soap Box Derby will be held for the sixth year on June 15. Mayor Jay Lawrence expressed appreciation to the association for growing the sport of gravity racing in Sweetwater and, as a result, bringing people into Sweetwater for racing events. The city commission approved the request to help the Sweetwater Gravity Racing Association and expressed support for such a quest. "I really appreciate your initiative," City Commissioner Larry May said. City Manager David Maddox said that if the Gravity Racing Association of Sweetwater gets control of the building, repairs it and uses it for storage, "everybody is a winner." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003a01c1b613$371bfee0$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:23:38 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Cleburne, TX Depot talk frank & heated By: Rob Fraser, Cleburne Times-Review WriterFebruary 14, 2002 A dozen members of the Johnson County Historical Commission voted to retain what building was left of the Trinity & Brazos Valley Railroad Depot, according to Wanda Erickson, commission archivist. There are about 100 JCHC members, she said. The vote took place at a Jan. 28 meeting with 12 members present. She said she was addressing the council as a Cleburne resident and a member of the JCHC. The historic preservation of this property is recommended by the JCHC as it was previously by the Texas Historic Commission. In the absence of a city historic commission, time should be allowed to explore, devise and implement a preservation plan by the local county and the state historic commissions. Demolition or abatement of this structure without proper and sufficient review by qualified and archeological preservation experts may affect the city's ability to obtain certain grants for future projects. She said the depot is found to be: "Significant" on the Johnson County Register of Historic Places and Objects. Eligible for a Recorded Texas Historic Landmark and/or a subject marker site. In a Texas Historic Commission recommended National Register of Historic Places District. In or adjacent to the city's Designated Main Street Program District. The last remaining portion of any railroad depot structure in Cleburne. Last portion of a previous Texas State Archeological Landmark Building. Erickson said though the Trinity & Brazos Valley Railroad didn't last long it "was an interesting experiment." She said she knew each council member would "have to deal with their own conscience" on this issue. "Each of you do a lot of work for no pay and sometimes you don't get the appreciation you deserve." She also said she didn't believe the mayor got the respect he deserved. She told the mayor "we would like to have your help" and asked the council to reconsider "and think about this some more." Erickson said, "All we want to do is wait awhile. It's been there a long time." Hazlewood said since the mid-80s "there have been a lot of promises made (about the structure) and a lot of promises unkept and a lot of other things. This got real out of hand." He said, "If you need to sell this (the idea about saving the depot) to somebody it's the 4-B committee. The city is a separate corporation." He said, the 4-B committee is going to build a railroad museum. He said Dan Roberts, the owner of the structure, could go down to the courthouse and get a temporary restraining order "but that hasn't happened." Roberts has said earlier he doesn't feel he wants to spend the money it would take to obtain a TRO. Hazlewood said he has "made several mistakes on this one." "I tried to get things done. They haven't come to pass and we had a potential opportunity where outside individuals from this community and from a railroad group were interested in trying to do something on Friday, Feb. 1. And the building was set for demolition on Monday, Feb. 3." He said he "probably made a mistake delaying it (the demolition order) trying to find some ground so someone can talk and come to reason. And I made a mistake. It didn't do any good and it caused a lot of misery to the people in the city" and upset a lot of other people. Erickson said she didn't think Hazlewood made that many mistakes in trying to delay and that he had "influence over" the board and they are looking to the city for guidance and leadership. She said she felt since after a fire and after a tornado "maybe God wants it to stay. You might think about that." Hazlewood said he "overstepped my bounds and called Mr. Nolen (City Manager Chester Nolen) and got his tail in a really bad place. Two council people are really mad at him and I want everybody in this room to know it was my fault because I tried to do what was best for Cleburne and it didn't work." Railroad buff Shane Hopkins, who is also a trustee for the Santa Fe #3417 Historical Foundation, told the council there will be no recall and there will be no referendum but suggested a committee be appointed promptly to update a part of the city charter that hasn't been updated since 1950. He said, "Let that issue be dead." Hopkins said he was calling for a recall election for Hazlewood and two council members, John Warren and Earl Horton on Saturday, Feb. 2, the day after the depot demolition was delayed. Changes in the law by the legislature and a charter that did not include single member districts precluded a recall for Hazlewood and Warren in the upcoming May election. Hopkins then said he would seek to have a referendum placed on the ballot to limit terms of office and to make it effective immediately if it was passed by voters. He also found out there were problems implementing that plan. Hopkins said the city has proven it "has control" over the demolition "when at five minutes to five on Feb. 1 you stopped it." He said, "We don't always agree. I don't like all of you and I know that some of ya'll don't like me and that's OK because that's what makes democracy work." He said he cared about Cleburne and "Cleburne is my holy spot...and not the depot down here." He said, "That's me speaking as an individual and now I am going to address you as a member of the 3417 Historical Foundation." He told the council they would like to have an equitable way out. "We would like an equitable way out down the road. We have worked with the 4-B (board) and we will continue to work with the 4-B for the presentation of the working railroad museum, which is our part of the project and is why we sat on the committee." Hopkins stressed the foundation does not have a problem with any member of the 4-B Board. He said he asked for an open records request concerning the company or people interested in the depot. "That's not been disclosed to me" and he made a verbal request for the information. He said he was at the meeting to "officially request that this tedious affair be brought to a close." He asked to be placed on the agenda for the next council meeting. Hopkins said the historical foundation is ready to enter into an agreement with Dan Roberts "for control of the property, the site of the T&BV Depot." This would allow them to begin searching for the grants so the commitments for the donations, about $80,000 worth, from Cleburne businesses, to rebuild the T&BV, "so we can move on." Hopkins said 4-B can do what it wants. He said the foundation made commitments to build a railroad museum "in this town and that's what we are going to do. And we say the T&BV site is the number one site to build that." According to Hopkins the site is eligible for grants and is the "last remaining depot site" in Cleburne. He said the foundation hired a grant development team in December. "We want to bring them in." Hopkins said it was time "to get off the issue of tearing down the four remaining walls." He said the foundation will agree to a specified time limit and "we can all step back and we can all breath easy a little bit now. We can get rid of this contentiousness. Let us all move forward positively." He said the foundation wanted time to work with the grant team. Resident Alden Nellis asked the council and the 4-B Board, "which has no sense of history," to look closely at this issue and to evaluate what is there and what can be saved. He said he knew this has "gone on and on forever" but the council "needed to be mindful" of the personal tragedy that occurred with Dan Leach, the former owner. Nellis said negotiations must go on between the city, 4-B board and the depot owner and supporters. "It may not be easy but you need to take into account the historical value of the site and what remains. And the fact that other people, like Mr. Roberts, have worked toward preserving that." He suggested the city and board negotiate with Roberts "even though he is as bull-headed as ya'll are to come up with some sort of way to preserve this piece of history for Cleburne." Hazlewood said, "You have unique perceptions." Hopkins addressed the council again and said everyone "got a song and dance" about not being able to delay the demolition and somehow it got done. Hazlewood again said he made a mistake. Hopkins said lets delay (the demolition) a little bit and "do the right thing." Hopkins he worked very hard for the passage of 4-B and has worked hard for historical restoration. Hazlewood suggested they meet with the 4-B Board. Hopkins said, "We don't need to discuss it with the 4-B anymore because we are moving on. If 4-B wants to come back down the road and say that's the site they want to have the museum - that's fine." He said, "We've promised, we've committed, we've wasted a year working for the tax (4-B), we're going ahead and build a museum." Hazlewood said he didn't feel they wasted a year, "it's one of the best things that happened." Hazlewood said, "Actually, to be honest, if they hadn't passed the 4-B I wasn't intending to run for mayor next time." Hopkins said, "I wish you wouldn't (run for mayor). You're the worst thing that has happened to Cleburne as far as I'm concerned." Hazlewood said he wouldn't take personal comments like that. After the meeting Horton and Hopkins got into a heated argument and the pair were immediately surrounded by city officials. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:43:31 From: "Don Dorflinger" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bay Street, Montclair, NJ Another classic example of taxpayer's money gone down the toilet. If you've ever been to Bay Street, you know that the new station is located in the heart of a depressed area of Montclair (although the track realignment did clear out some of the tenements on it's way to the connection with the old Erie Greenwood Lake Branch). I hope NJ TRANSIT or the township plans to guard this new "edifice" 24 hours a day, or the only artists that will will be on future display the graffiti lads with the spray cans. If you think that Montclair has any concept of art or history, take a ride down and see what's become of the old DL&W terminal at Lackawanna Plaza. It's enough to make you puke. >From: Bernie Wagenblast >Reply-To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >To: RSHS Depot >Subject: (rshsdepot) Bay Street, Montclair, NJ >Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:12:48 -0500 > > Lining Up For The Bay Street Station > >Wednesday, February 13, 2002 > >By KATIA RAINA - The Montclair Times > >It was once a simple site - a roofed shelter, standing on a small >asphalt-covered area over the railroad tracks. But in just a few months, the >Bay Street Rail Station will complete its transformation into an artsy spot, >taking on a new role as one of Montclair's stops on the much-anticipated >Midtown Direct rail route to and from Manhattan. > >Two brick-color towers already rise over the train station, connected by a >glass-covered overpass stretching across the tracks. Each tower holds an >elevator and an adjacent staircase, and will enable pedestrians to traverse >the rail line between the eastbound and westbound platforms. > >Dark green fence around the station, matching canopies, and 52 light poles >are already in place. Finishing touches are all that's left, said NJ Transit >officials, and as soon as the Montclair Connection is ready to go, Bay >Street Station will be ready, too. > >"What you see is pretty much what's going to be there," said Fred Schultz, >an engineer with NJ Transit. > >The station's look was meant to capture the unique character of Montclair, >said Virginia Seminara, an architect who was commissioned by NJ Transit to >design the project. > >"What we tried to do was to use some of the materials that were >characteristic of the neighborhood," Seminara said. "Like the cut-stone look >and the 'orangy' color brick, we picked that up from the church around the >corner in the neighborhood." > >NJ Transit and township officials promise more glamour, once the station >opens. At the insistence of the township, three artists have been >commissioned to do some work for the station. > >"One of the goals of the Montclair Arts Plan is public art," said Paul >Ellis, the township's director of arts and cultural development, referring >to a town-wide cultural program, now in the works, to foster the Montclair >arts scene and promote the township's cultural identity. > >"And this is one of the first opportunities for public art that's come >along," Ellis said. > >The art projects commissioned by the township for Bay Street Station include >50 concrete stools with ce-ramic tile bands to provide seating for >passengers, ten circular medallions to be placed on the walls, and cylinders >of glass, which will be embedded in spiral patterns on the concrete floor. > >On the westbound side of the tracks, right where the platform ends, instead >of traditional railing, there will be a 12-square-foot screen made of >stainless steel and adorned with railroad-related images - everything from >wheels, to lanterns, to conductors. A Montclair sculptor, Tom Nussbaum, has >just started work-ing on that piece. > >"There will be a real variety of stuff, just a lot of objects from the >history of train travel," Nussbaum said. "In a way, it is reminiscent of a >big-pieced quilt." > >Several plaques may accompany the work, providing the description and >historical significance of each object on the screen, he added. > >The concept is for all the station's public art pieces to be connected >thematically and artistically. > >The pieces are placed strategically around the station, so light would >bounce between them in "all kinds of crazy light patterns," according to >Ellis. > >"So the air itself becomes a piece of art," Ellis said. "This is going to be >outrageous. I think people are going to come just to look at this station." > >The makeover of the Bay Street Rail Station has been a long process. The >township spent decades fight-ing the state's plan to establish the so-called >"Montclair Connection," which will link the Boonton Rail Line with the >Montclair Branch of the Morris and Essex Rail Lines in the area around Pine >Street, Bay Street and Glenridge Avenue. Opponents and proponents have long >debated the impact of the Montclair Connection on the surrounding area and >the whole town - a discussion that continues to this day. > >Almost four years ago, Montclair and NJ Transit reached an agreement in >which the town assented to the Montclair Connection. The township then got >actively involved in the station's design. > >"We worked with the town every step of the way," said NJ Transit's >spokesperson, Michael Klufas. > >Township Manager Terence Reidy said the government's involvement was >essential, because NJ Transit's original proposal did not match Montclair's >aesthetic standards. > >"The design wasn't imaginative," Reidy said. "When you looked at it, it just >didn't say Montclair. > >"But they graciously accepted our feedback," he added. > >Today, Montclair government has more plans for the station. > >Karen Kadus, director of planning and community development, said the >township will provide a 225-space parking deck near the station, along with >a covered waiting area for Montclair Connection commuters. Kadus said the >project, which is part of the Bay Street redevelopment plan, will be >financed in part by NJ Transit. > >"Our developer is going to incorporate a station area into the deck," Kadus >said. "It's going to include several 16-foot-long historical benches that we >saved from the original Lackawanna station." > >For the past several years, the benches have been stored in The Montclair >Times' facility, 114 Valley Road. > >The developer, Lincoln Property Co., has not started construction yet, Kadus >said, and it is unclear when the work will be completed. > >Even though trains have been running at the Bay Street Station - providing >daily service to Newark and Hoboken, as part of NJ Transit's Morris & Essex >Rail Lines - the station's platforms stood virtually empty on a recent cold >afternoon. > >This will change with the very first train to Penn Station in just a few >months, NJ Transit maintains. > >The transportation network's officials say they hope to open the Montclair >Connection in the spring, de-clining to offer more details. > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <7f.217c86cd.299e63d9_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:15:05 EST From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bay Street, Montclair, NJ In a message dated 2/15/02 6:44:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, donnielee46_@_hotmail.com writes: > If you think that Montclair has any concept of art or history, take a ride > down and see what's become of the old DL&W terminal at Lackawanna Plaza. > It's enough to make you puke. I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to. The old DL&W Terminal at Lackawanna Plaza is still there, and has been converted to a Blockbuster Video, or some similar establishment. It is sad that it is no longer a railroad station, but at least the building still stands and has been converted to a productive use. Moreover, since it is a store that is open to the public, you can go inside and check out the interior of the building, much of which retains its historical ambiance. So while I'd rather see the building used as a railroad station, I'd much rather have it converted to a store than see it torn down or being used for a purpose that destroys its historical ambiance. I haven't been to the Bay Street Station in Montclair in a while, but I did take a ride on the line a few years ago. The old Bay Street Station was a disgrace. It consisted of a small circular opaque plastic shelter -- one of the least attractive facilities that I've ever seen. I'm glad to see that the new station will be more attractive. Daniel Chazin Teaneck, NJ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:51:12 EST From: Dherbert53_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bay Street, Montclair, NJ In a message dated 2/15/02 8:15:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, CoolGuy127_@_aol.com writes: > I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to. The old DL&W > Terminal at Lackawanna Plaza is still there, and has been converted to a > Blockbuster Video, or some similar establishment. It is sad that it is no > longer a railroad station, but at least the building still stands and has > been converted to a productive use. Moreover, since it is a store that is > open to the public, you can go inside and check out the interior of the > building, much of which retains its historical ambiance. So while I'd > rather > see the building used as a railroad station, I'd much rather have it > converted to a store than see it torn down or being used for a purpose that > > destroys its historical ambiance. > > I haven't been to the Bay Street Station in Montclair in a while, > but > I did take a ride on the line a few years ago. The old Bay Street Station > was a disgrace. It consisted of a small circular opaque plastic shelter -- > > one of the least attractive facilities that I've ever seen. I'm glad to > see > that the new station will be more attractive. > True, but who's protecting and maintaining it? The Mountainview/Wayne station on the Boonton Line was new a few years ago and was a mess in a matter of months. The Bay St. station is located in a run down area of Montclair and will suffer the same fate unless a guard is posted 24 hours a day. Dean Dean Carroll ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00cf01c1b636$4e84cda0$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:34:48 -0500 From: "Bernie Wagenblast" Subject: (rshsdepot) Milford, CT News release from Connecticut DOT NEWINGTON, Conn. - Acting State Transportation Commissioner James F. Byrnes announced today the Milford Railroad Station's main building will reopen on Monday (February 18) to serve the general public. The station building was closed in February 2001 for renovations. The improvements were part of a $6.8 million project to upgrade the train station in Milford as well as the station in Darien. The Department of Transportation awarded the contract to Banton Construction of North Haven. The work in Milford included upgrading the station's restroom facilities as well as a total revamping of the electrical and heating systems, new floors and ceilings and a handicapped accessible ramp in compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. Train service and access to the station's two passenger boarding platforms was maintained during the building renovations. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:51:15 From: "Don Dorflinger" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bay Street, Montclair, NJ Sorry, Dan. I consider what's been done to the old trainsheds at Montclair a nightmare. The area is now a Shop Rite and mall, and looks like a sideshow. This was a historically significant facility, and I believe is on the National Register. The station itself was designed by Thomas Botsford, Chief Architect for the DL&W RR. Botsford, unfortunately, did not live to see his creation completed, as he perished on the Titanic in April, 1912. The trainsheds were of the Bush style, designed by Engineer Lincoln Bush, and of the same type as installed at the DL&W Hoboken Terminal, and the Jersey Central RR Terminal at today's Liberty Park. Montclair's answer to the degradation of this site is the trade-off at Bay St. I'm not going to knock the architecture, as I have not seen the finished product. I have, however, seen it many times while under construction, and it kind of reminds me of the old DL&W station at Lake Hopatcong...not the building itself, but rather the elevator towers and walkway. I guess that's not enough...now the local artisans will be allowed to run wild. And after all this time any money is spent, the area will be left to the vandals. The "plastic circular shelter" which you describe, and as it evolved, was never intended to be a permanent station at the site. It was constructed cheaply, as the plan from the start when Lackawanna Plaza was abandoned, was to institute Phase I of the "Montclair Connection," ie, a realignment of the trackage for eventual connection to the Greenwood Lake Line, and electrification to Mountain View (of course, this has been shortened to Great Notch), and the construction of a more permanent facility. As a reporter, I covered the entire process from the abandonment of Lackawanna Plaza to the construction and introduction of service to Bay St. in 1981. I rode in the cab of the last train in and out of the Plaza, and was there to cover the first one into Bay St. Unfortunately, it has taken 21 years from the time the "original Bay St." was opened until now for the "Connection" Plan to come to fruition (nearly 80 years, if you consider when it was originally proposed in the 1920's). During that time, the local opposition to the plan has been loud and vociferous, as a number of families were displaced from low income housing...minority families that saw this as racial injustice, and as a contrived plan to eliminate African-American housing. While I don't share that belief, I will tell you that officals in Montclair were not sad to see some of this housing go. The "trade off." as I call it: we'll build a beautiful facility that will be artsy and first rate, and everybody will come from miles around just to look at it, and we'll all be proud of it, and that will make up for all the grief. Who really cares? The commuters will continue to wait in their cars in the morning (just like they do at all other stations on the line), and will bolt to their cars when they detrain in the afternoon. If the area is not secured at night, it will be victimized by the vandals and graffiti artists. Don Dorflinger, Blairstown, NJ >From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com >Reply-To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bay Street, Montclair, NJ >Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:15:05 EST > >In a message dated 2/15/02 6:44:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, >donnielee46_@_hotmail.com writes: > > > If you think that Montclair has any concept of art or history, take a ride > > down and see what's become of the old DL&W terminal at Lackawanna Plaza. > > It's enough to make you puke. > > I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to. The old DL&W >Terminal at Lackawanna Plaza is still there, and has been converted to a >Blockbuster Video, or some similar establishment. It is sad that it is no >longer a railroad station, but at least the building still stands and has >been converted to a productive use. Moreover, since it is a store that is >open to the public, you can go inside and check out the interior of the >building, much of which retains its historical ambiance. So while I'd rather >see the building used as a railroad station, I'd much rather have it >converted to a store than see it torn down or being used for a purpose that >destroys its historical ambiance. > > I haven't been to the Bay Street Station in Montclair in a while, but >I did take a ride on the line a few years ago. The old Bay Street Station >was a disgrace. It consisted of a small circular opaque plastic shelter -- >one of the least attractive facilities that I've ever seen. I'm glad to see >that the new station will be more attractive. > > Daniel Chazin > Teaneck, NJ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <013e01c1b663$dd960ae0$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:00:57 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Bill Could Help Save Alabama Historic Railroad Sites Historic railroad bill could benefit area By Clay Redden The Decatur Daily credden_@_decaturdaily.com MONTGOMERY -- A Birmingham lawmaker said a bill he's sponsoring could help save historic railroad sites in the state including some locally. State Rep. Johnny Curry, R-Birmingham, said the idea for creating the Alabama Historic Railway Commission came from an effort in Montgomery to save an old train shed in the northern part of the city. Curry said the commission would coordinate the preservation and displaying of historic railroad properties and equipment and would promote historical and educational programs related to railroads. The commission would also operate the non-profit Old Alabama Rails. That group is trying to save the Montgomery train shed. While the original purpose of his bill was to help the Montgomery group, Curry said the commission wouldn't be limited to saving historic railroad sites in the Capital City. "There would be no reason why it couldn't branch out to other historical railroad sites," he said. Many railroad depots from the days when trains were the primary long distance transportation service in the state are still standing, including those in Decatur and Athens. However, most have been abandoned or are showing the effects time. Curry said the commission won't receive any state money, but that it could be a vehicle to raise private funds to take care of historic railroad sites in the state. He said he hasn't discussed his legislation with the Alabama Historical Commission, but added that saving historic railroad sites in the state doesn't appear to be a priority with the commission. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000b01c1b66e$8e090c60$7e01a8c0_@_0018982498> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:17:26 -0800 From: "Eric Miller" Subject: (rshsdepot) Edgewood now cooperating on East Busway NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo mpgnews.gif (image/gif, 2020 bytes) pghome.gif (image/gif, 564 bytes) pgnews2.gif (image/gif, 577 bytes) sports.gif (image/gif, 542 bytes) lifestyle.gif (image/gif, 517 bytes) ae.gif (image/gif, 388 bytes) newseye.gif (image/gif, 691 bytes) apwire.gif (image/gif, 537 bytes) business.gif (image/gif, 581 bytes) classifieds.gif (image/gif, 671 bytes) webextras.gif (image/gif, 598 bytes) weather.gif (image/gif, 591 bytes) healthandscience.gif (image/gif, 741 bytes) search.gif (image/gif, 472 bytes) pgstore.gif (image/gif, 585 bytes) pgdeliv.gif (image/gif, 658 bytes) 125x50weather.gif (image/gif, 1369 bytes) 125x50email.gif (image/gif, 1495 bytes) graybar.gif (image/gif, 158 bytes) bluebottombar3.gif (image/gif, 1811 bytes) Edgewood now cooperating on East Buswayhttp://www.newcolonist.com/pittsburgh.html Edgewood now cooperating on East Busway Friday, February 15, 2002 By Joe Grata, Post-Gazette Staff Writer A Port Authority committee today recommended approval of an agreement with Edgewood for amenities connected with the East Busway, which borough officials have opposed for a decade. The agreement calls for a busway station, pedestrian overpass, a pedestrian tunnel, linear park, restoring the old Edgewood train station and helping the borough develop a plan to revitalize the Edgewood Avenue business district. Although construction of the $63 million busway extension is well under way and on schedule to be opened late this year, the Port Authority has been advancing work without plans for the Edgewood stop or other amenities for the eastern suburb, whose position in recent years has been to demand a light-rail line instead of the buses-only road. The authority has money left in the project -- and federal authorization for -- the $325,000 train station restoration, a $100,000 pedestrian underpass and some lesser items such as repaving portions of Edgewood Avenue affected by the construction underway. But the authority will have to rely on the federal government for approval and up to $2.5 million in extra funding for a busway station, the linear park alongside the busway and a $250,000 pedestrian overpass to Edgewood Towne Center, a nearby shopping plaza. In exchange for its cooperation, the borough has agreed to grant certain easements, curb cuts and permits necessary for construction. Officials have been denying those items, forcing the authority to appeal to the state agencies. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - More details in tomorrow's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Take me to... PG News ---- Nation & World ---- Region & State - ---- Obituaries ---- Neighborhoods ---- Business & Technology ---- Sports ---- Health & Science ---- Arts & Entertainment ---- Lifestyle - ---- Opinion Special Reports Photo Journal AP Wire Sports ---- Steelers - ---- Pirates ---- Penguins ---- University of Pittsburgh ---- Penn State University ---- Collegiate Sports ---- High School Sports ---- Golf Classifieds ---- Announcements ---- Business Opportunities ---- Business Services ---- Cars ---- Celebrations ---- Classified Obituaries ---- Farm & Lawn ---- Great Outdoors ---- Hobbies ---- Jobs ---- Legal Ads - ---- Merchandise ---- Personals ---- Pets ---- Real Estate Rentals - -------- Pittsburgh Apartments ---- Real Estate Sales -------- Mortgage Rates ---- Place an Ad Weather PG Store PG Delivery About the Post-Gazette Contact Us Search Site Map Help Corrections/Clarifications Copyright and Terms of Use Terms of Use Privacy Policy - ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C1B62B.7EF32F00 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:19:09 -0500 From: "Michael Bosak" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bay Street, Montclair, NJ William Hull Botsford - ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dorflinger Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 11:52 AM To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bay Street, Montclair, NJ Sorry, Dan. I consider what's been done to the old trainsheds at Montclai r a nightmare. The area is now a Shop Rite and mall, and looks like a sid eshow. This was a historically significant facility, and I believe is on the Nat ional Register. The station itself was designed by Thomas Botsford, Chief Architect for the DL&W RR. Botsford, unfortunately, did not live to see his creation completed, as he perished on the Titanic in April, 1912. The trainsheds were of the Bush style, designed by Engineer Lincoln Bush, an d of the same type as installed at the DL&W Hoboken Terminal, and the Jer sey Central RR Terminal at today's Liberty Park. Montclair's answer to the degradation of this site is the trade-off at Ba y St. I'm not going to knock the architecture, as I have not seen the fin ished product. I have, however, seen it many times while under constructi on, and it kind of reminds me of the old DL&W station at Lake Hopatcong.. .not the building itself, but rather the elevator towers and walkway. I g uess that's not enough...now the local artisans will be allowed to run wi ld. And after all this time any money is spent, the area will be left to the vandals. The "plastic circular shelter" which you describe, and as it evolved, was never intended to be a permanent station at the site. It was constructed cheaply, as the plan from the start when Lackawanna Plaza was abandoned, was to institute Phase I of the "Montclair Connection," ie, a realignmen t of the trackage for eventual connection to the Greenwood Lake Line, and electrification to Mountain View (of course, this has been shortened to Great Notch), and the construction of a more permanent facility. As a reporter, I covered the entire process from the abandonment of Lacka wanna Plaza to the construction and introduction of service to Bay St. in 1981. I rode in the cab of the last train in and out of the Plaza, and was there to cover the first one into Bay St. Unfortunately, it has taken 21 years from the time the "original Bay St." was opened until now for t he "Connection" Plan to come to fruition (nearly 80 years, if you conside r when it was originally proposed in the 1920's). During that time, the l ocal opposition to the plan has been loud and vociferous, as a number of families were displaced from low income housing...minority families that saw this as racial injustice, and as a contrived plan to eliminate Africa n-American housing. While I don't share that belief, I will tell you that officals in Montclair were not sad to see some of this housing go. The " trade off." as I call it: we'll build a beautiful facility that will be a rtsy and first rate, and everybody will ! come from miles around just to look at it, and we'll all be proud of it, and that will make up for all the grief. Who really cares? The commuters will continue to wait in their cars in the morning (just like they do at all other stations on the line), and will bolt to their cars when they de train in the afternoon. If the area is not secured at night, it will be v ictimized by the vandals and graffiti artists. Don Dorflinger, Blairstown, NJ >From: CoolGuy127_@_aol.com >Reply-To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bay Street, Montclair, NJ >Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:15:05 EST > >In a message dated 2/15/02 6:44:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, >donnielee46_@_hotmail.com writes: > > > If you think that Montclair has any concept of art or history, take a ride > > down and see what's become of the old DL&W terminal at Lackawanna Pla za. > > It's enough to make you puke. > > I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to. The old DL&W >Terminal at Lackawanna Plaza is still there, and has been converted to a >Blockbuster Video, or some similar establishment. It is sad that it is n o >longer a railroad station, but at least the building still stands and ha s >been converted to a productive use. Moreover, since it is a store that i s >open to the public, you can go inside and check out the interior of the >building, much of which retains its historical ambiance. So while I'd ra ther >see the building used as a railroad station, I'd much rather have it >converted to a store than see it torn down or being used for a purpose t hat >destroys its historical ambiance. > > I haven't been to the Bay Street Station in Montclair in a while, but >I did take a ride on the line a few years ago. The old Bay Street Statio n >was a disgrace. It consisted of a small circular opaque plastic shelter - -- >one of the least attractive facilities that I've ever seen. I'm glad to see >that the new station will be more attractive. > > Daniel Chazin > Teaneck, NJ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click HereG et more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.c om ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004001c1b69a$46af58c0$b96af6d1_@_paul> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:30:24 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Edgewood now cooperating on East Busway Things to thank Canadians for: =95ice hockey and =95curling (I find it interesting) =95oka cheese =95Toronto =95Montreal =95Labrador =95Any of the Atlantic provinces =95polar bears (lol) =95Carling (Black label)'s daughter, a very cute blonde tennis cutie before Anna Kournakova, she also never lived up to her (court) potential) =95 a closer than Ireland or Israel example of racial strife between the frogs and the white guys, even more we can see how absurd those things are =95All those comedians with which we might never have had SCTV or SNL (and also a lot of bad movies by Woopie Goldberg and Robin Williams, but how would we know the good ones without the dross?) =95Benedict Arnold's treason Remind me sometime to tell of two local historical conflicts, the over 20 year border dispute that at times got violence, had "terrorism", between Bushwick and Newtown (Brooklyn and Queens) and the even more obscure one between Connecticut colony and New York,,,once the eastern part of Long Island was part of Connecticut, the element in New England was always more rural, there was a compromise, LI went to NY and Connecticut got their SE peninsula, New York got their lower eastern border with Connecticut, that side is on the western side of a mountain ridge... Both of these were originally Dutch v English disputes that carried over I realize I am avoiding the Canada good stuff list, maybe because I monetarily can't think of anything else... =95The CN, Canadian National, the first (maybe second but CP, Canadian pacific was the other one) transcontinental RR, and actually the first public;y run and very successful RR in North America =95Annie Lennox =95a refuge for draft dodgers in the 80s =95Canadian bacon which probably originated in Minnesota or Vermont or the Idaho peninsula, but they have the credit now =95Canadian Club (some might say Canadian whiskey, but it gives me a headache) =9554-40 and fight, making our border straighter and safer for security checks, except that little peninsula butting into Canada [This is a peninsula heavy message] [Alaska has a peninsula into the Yukon; Ontario has a peninsula, at its apex is Hamilton, Detroit's Oakland (unless it is the other way around)] =95Robert Goulet =95Canadian football (which actually is American football field and rules pre-1911, though the rouge goes back much earlier) =95a country about 150 years old but the national song is only about 40 =95Quebec uses accent marks I think it may even be Qu=E9b=E8c though in this boring plain text, the second accent mark looks like a box =95Qu=E9b=E8c ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <009401c1b69f$83d4c820$b96af6d1_@_paul> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:07:53 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Edgewood now cooperating on East Busway obviously this nonsense went to the wrong recipients, sorry...you do realize it is al joking I hope,,,I hope I was right about the CN, or else you will all make fun of me - -----Original Message----- From: Paul S. Luchter To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Friday, February 15, 2002 10:30 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Edgewood now cooperating on East Busway >Things to thank Canadians for: >=95ice hockey and =95curling (I find it interesting) >=95oka cheese >=95Toronto >=95Montreal >=95Labrador >=95Any of the Atlantic provinces >=95polar bears (lol) >=95Carling (Black label)'s daughter, a very cute blonde tennis cutie >before Anna Kournakova, she also never lived up to her (court) >potential) >=95 a closer than Ireland or Israel example of racial strife between the >frogs and the white guys, even more we can see how absurd those things >are >=95All those comedians with which we might never have had SCTV or SNL >(and also a lot of bad movies by Woopie Goldberg and Robin Williams, but >how would we know the good ones without the dross?) >=95Benedict Arnold's treason >Remind me sometime to tell of two local historical conflicts, the over >20 year border dispute that at times got violence, had "terrorism", >between Bushwick and Newtown (Brooklyn and Queens) and the even more >obscure one between Connecticut colony and New York,,,once the eastern >part of Long Island was part of Connecticut, the element in New England >was always more rural, there was a compromise, LI went to NY and >Connecticut got their SE peninsula, New York got their lower eastern >border with Connecticut, that side is on the western side of a mountain >ridge... > >Both of these were originally Dutch v English disputes that carried over > >I realize I am avoiding the Canada good stuff list, maybe because I >monetarily can't think of anything else... >=95The CN, Canadian National, the first (maybe second but CP, Canadian >pacific was the other one) transcontinental RR, and actually the first >public;y run and very successful RR in North America >=95Annie Lennox >=95a refuge for draft dodgers in the 80s >=95Canadian bacon which probably originated in Minnesota or Vermont or >the Idaho peninsula, but they have the credit now >=95Canadian Club (some might say Canadian whiskey, but it gives me a >headache) >=9554-40 and fight, making our border straighter and safer for security >checks, except that little peninsula butting into Canada > >[This is a peninsula heavy message] > >[Alaska has a peninsula into the Yukon; Ontario has a peninsula, at its >apex is Hamilton, Detroit's Oakland (unless it is the other way around)] > >=95Robert Goulet >=95Canadian football (which actually is American football field and >rules pre-1911, though the rouge goes back much earlier) >=95a country about 150 years old but the national song is only about 40 >=95Quebec uses accent marks I think it may even be Qu=E9b=E8c though in >this boring plain text, the second accent mark looks like a box > >=95Qu=E9b=E8c > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <011d01c1b6b0$b106d980$b96af6d1_@_paul> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 01:10:49 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Pennsylvania RR YMCA of Philadelphia In my secret life I research antique football (see http://www.mindspring.com/~luckyshow/amazingsportslists.htm ) and in the course of this research I have come across games at the turn of the 20th century by the Pennsylvania Railroad YMCA of Philadelphia, they even played Lafayette and University of Pennsylvania... Does anyone know the history of this team, or at least the history of this particular YMCA, it was not the only YMCA to have a football team in those olden days, but it was the only one to play on a higher level, travelling (natch), playing better teams, so it must have been a large Y. ???, Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <013501c1b6b3$85d95aa0$b96af6d1_@_paul> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 01:31:02 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Bay Ridge and Lake Shore Railroad On this map of Fort Hamilton from 1873: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blkyn/Map/Maps.Main.html there is a dashed line titled "Bay Shore and Lake Shore RR Property" I forget if I ever knew what this was about, anyone know? ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <014501c1b6b5$dc1230c0$b96af6d1_@_paul> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 01:47:42 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Fw: Bay Ridge and Lake Shore Railroad this was the correct page for the Fort Hamilton map http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blkyn/Map/Ft.Ham.html - -----Original Message----- From: Paul S. Luchter To: RSHSDepot Date: Saturday, February 16, 2002 1:31 AM Subject: Bay Ridge and Lake Shore Railroad On this map of Fort Hamilton from 1873: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blkyn/Map/Maps.Main.html there is a dashed line titled "Bay Shore and Lake Shore RR Property" I forget if I ever knew what this was about, anyone know? ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <015a01c1b6b8$e1ac7ce0$b96af6d1_@_paul> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 02:09:20 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Oh yeah You can see it says Depot just off Village Ave., the LIRR freight station that is now on Lincoln Road, maybe to be moved to the park in Rockville Centre, it might be the structure on the other end of the platform (?) from the depot, they were both built in this year 1873 http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blkyn/Map/Rock.Center.html ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #289 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008801c1b71e$60031080$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:16:01 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Randolph Station - Chicago, IL Photo links: http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/Chicago/MetraElectric/RandolphPlatform .jpg (platforms w/trains in station) http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/Chicago/MetraElectric/RandolphInterior .jpg (entrance gates) Metra spending $15m to rehab Randolph Station BY GARY WISBY STAFF REPORTER Chicago Sun-Times February 16, 2002 A $15 million renovation of Randolph Street Station will include bigger concourses, better lighting, new vendors and, for the first time, air-conditioned waiting areas, Metra said Friday. Work on the station, which is underground near Michigan Avenue, was slowed by rebuilding of Randolph Street overhead. Construction of Millennium Park above tracks south of the station added more delay. "The importance of this station to Chicago will be further enhanced because of its connectivity with the new Millennium Park," said Metra Chairman Jeffrey R. Ladd. "We're sorry it has taken so long to get this project started." Construction should be completed by 2004. Teng and Associates designed the depot, and Skidmore, Owings & Merrill is in charge of architectural finishes. Commuter trains have been using Randolph Street as a terminal since the Illinois Central Railroad launched Chicago's first commuter train from there in 1856. The station later was razed, but when the railroad electrified its commuter service in the 1920s, the terminal was built at a cost of $2.6 million. The Prudential Building entombed the station and its tracks in 1952 after the railroad sold the air rights over the tracks. Since acquiring the commuter division of the Illinois Central Gulf Railroad in 1987, Metra has put more than $500 million into rehabilitation work. About 15,000 commuters use Randolph Street Station each weekday. The electric system moves 45,000 passengers on more than 170 trains each weekday over its 31-mile main line to University Park and two shorter branch lines to South Chicago and Blue Island. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <200202161508.g1GF8a443370_@_rauterkus.com> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:06:03 -0400 From: "Mark Rauterkus" Subject: (rshsdepot) Re: [TNCPittsburgh] Edgewood now cooperating on East Busway Edgewood now cooperating on East Busway Edgewood is a splendid example of why it is healthy to have 125 or so little municipal govermental entities around the County. Sure, we have a lot of them. Sure, they are a bit of a trouble spot at time when it comes to getting "big projects" done. But the diversity, such as that with a rain forest or any other eco system, is HEALTHY. For years Wilkinsburg was crooked as the day is long. Meanwhile, other places were different and different levels of health weave among our greater communities. Edgewood was right to fight for light rail. Edgewood has some fight left in it as well. And, Edgewood's fight is everyone's benefit as well. When one path is taken -- we'll never know what outcomes would be like should the other non-selection had come to pass. But, I have a hunch we'll all wonder why in some 20-30 years didn't Edgewood have any more stamina -- and why didn't other groups come to support its side in the battle. Three cheers for Edgewood. Thanks for the muster for the fight. May we all be as nobel in our dissent! Ta. Mark Rauterkus Mark_@_Rauterkus.com http://Rauterkus.com ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #290 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001301c1b7c0$1b174c00$fe805043_@_JimDent> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:33:45 -0500 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Hornell (NY) Depot From the Erielack list... - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:17 PM Subject: (erielack) Hornell Depot > Hello, just thought I would update anyone interested in the on-going work on the Hornell depot. > The contractors have begun work replacing the roof on the west end, single story baggage area. Looks to be about 1/3 covered with new plywood as of this afternoon. There are traps covering the rest of the single story roof. > > Workers have been replaces sections of brick on the Loder/River Street side. It looks like repointing of the mortar is also being done. > > I haven't noticed any work on the track side facade yet. They have been lucky with the "mild" winter weather here the last couple weeks. > > If the sun comes out I will try and take pictures from all the angles. > > I was also told that the old boiler plant was torn down and a new heat source will be needed. > > Anyway thats what I have seen. > Freezing my #$%@^'s off and wishing I were back in Hawaii, > Andy Cole > > P.S. The Hornell Model Railroad Club had the annual open last weekend. Besides the normal layout, the Southern Tier Ntrak Modular layout was set up and a demonstraion of Lionel/MTH/K-Line as well as G gauge > for the kids. Good times in Erie Country (sorry to all you Lackawanna guys) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <007301c1b7bf$df2eb020$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:32:04 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Milwaukee, WI Train station to be redeveloped; $ 3.9 million project will include both inside and outside Milwaukee Journal Sentinel...02/15/2002 A Los Angeles developer will lead a $ 3.9 million redevelopment of the 37-year-old Milwaukee Amtrak station into a modern transportation hub, the state Department of Transportation announced Thursday. The department is negotiating a contract with Milwaukee Intermodal Partners, a group led by the Wilton Partners, of Los Angeles, and Project Management Advisers, of Chicago, said Michael Maierle, project manager for the department. Local members of the group are Eppstein Uhen Architects and Grunau Project Development. Under that contract, the group will overhaul both the outside and the inside of the station, improving areas for passengers and leasing space to private businesses, with completion scheduled by late 2003, Maierle said. The developers will seek restaurants, shops and service businesses for the ground-floor and offices for the upper floors, Maierle said. Revenue from tenants is expected to cover station operating costs, he added. Eppstein Uhen President Greg Uhen promised a bold redesign, adding, "This is a doorway, a gateway to the city. We need to put our best face forward." Currently, the Amtrak station handles nearly 420,000 passengers a year on 14 trains a day: six each way on the Milwaukee-to-Chicago Hiawatha line, and one each way on the Empire Builder, which runs from Chicago to the Pacific Northwest. Although the current project is aimed at improving the facility for those services, the state is considering plans to upgrade the station for both high-speed intercity trains and regular-speed commuter trains, and to combine it with the Greyhound and Badger Bus depots. Wisconsin is leading the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative, a nine-state, $ 4.1 billion plan to link Milwaukee, Chicago, Madison, the Twin Cities, St. Louis, Detroit and other cities with fast, frequent trains, starting with a 110-mph line from Milwaukee to Madison. That plan is awaiting congressional action on funding for high-speed trains nationwide. Also under study is a plan to extend Chicago's Metra commuter trains from Kenosha to Racine and Milwaukee, with stops throughout the southern suburbs. Meanwhile, state officials are continuing to study concepts for building a second Amtrak station near Mitchell International Airport, said Randy Wade, passenger rail implementation manager for the rail initiative. The $ 100,000 study is examining how to build the station and what it would cost, said Wade and project manager John Espie. Congress has appropriated $ 2.5 million for the project, but with preliminary cost estimates of $ 7 million to $ 8 million, more money is likely to be needed, Espie and Wade said. Plans for the airport train station will move forward regardless of the prospects for high-speed rail, Wade said. The station could be built on airport property near S. 6th St., and linked to the airport terminal by the shuttle buses that serve a remote parking lot on the site. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #291 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <012901c1b89c$1eadcc40$807ba8c0_@_home.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:48:16 -0800 From: "Harry Marnell" Subject: (rshsdepot) Fw: [Calrailfans] Whittier depot restoration continues - ----- Original Message ----- From: "nvrdunit at all" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 08:39 Subject: Re: [Calrailfans] Whittier depot restoration continues Re: http://www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,1002,929%257E406489,00.html I live here in Whittier and the depot is going to be nice when done. I don't know yet if any historical items other than the depot will be highlighted at the depot but it would be nice since the railroad, both SP and UP have(had) tracks here for many decades. as well as the old electric trolleys that used to have tracks right throught one of Whittiers oldest intersections just south of the uptown area. Too bad there won't be any rail traffic. It's strictly going to be for buses and transportation shuttle vans. Damn >From: Charles Varnes >Reply-To: Calrailfans_@_yahoogroups.com >To: Calrailfans >Subject: [Calrailfans] Whittier depot restoration continues >Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 07:16:36 -0800 > >Here are some snips from the San Gabriel Valley Tribune article which >ran yesterday. > > Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:45:59 AM MST > > Depot restoration getting back on track > Work should be completed by mid-June, officials say > By Jennifer Parsons > Staff Writer > > WHITTIER -- Restoration of the historic railroad depot is back on >track, and city officials said they do not anticipate any future >derailment. > > Earlier this week, the city hired Mickelson & Campbell Construction to >complete the job, and work will resume in about 10 days. > > The restoration should be completed by mid-June, according to city and >construction officials. > > Other than periodic weed-whacking, debris cleanup and fumigation, no >work has been done to the site since Vahdani Construction Co. walked >off the job last March. The construction company left after a dispute >with the city centering on company claims of $300,000 worth of >out-of-contract expenses. > > The city had agreed in 1999 to pay Vahdani $1.5 million to restore the >city's oldest building and turn it into a transportation center. > > In 2000, crews moved the two-story depot on wooden blocks from its >location next to the railroad tracks just south of Philadelphia Street >to its new location on Greenleaf Avenue, across from the Hilton Hotel. > > A total of $1.7 million in state, federal and municipal funds was put >together for the project, which originally was scheduled to be >completed by July 27, 2000. > > City leaders called the Chicago-based bonding company in August to >help get the depot finished. > > The bonding company has since negotiated with Vahdani and chosen >Mickelson & Campbell Construction to complete the work. > > The two-year project delays are not costing the city any more than the >initial project budget of $1.6 million, according to Fran Shields, the >city's director of community services. > > Restoration of the depot is about 70 percent completed, according to >Javier Reyes, the city's community development coordinator. > > Some of the work that is left includes grading, completion of the >irrigation system and fire sprinklers, electrical work, landscaping, >parking lot paving and striping and laying concrete sidewalks and >walkways. > > Contractors also must add railings, restore wood floors, lay ceramic >tile in the bathrooms, paint the interior and exterior and install site >furnishings such as benches, a drinking fountain and light posts, >according to Reyes. > >Following is the URL for the article. > http://www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,1002,929%257E406489,00.html > >Charles Varnes ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:37:01 From: "Don Dorflinger" Subject: (rshsdepot) L&NE Martins Creek, PA Another Piece of the Lehigh & New England Railroad (L&NE) Bites the Dust By the time you read this, the former Lehigh & New England Railroad (L&NE RR) yard office at Martins Creek, PA will probably be history, as a demolition crew began their work of dismantling the structure early this morning (February 18th). The building was made of sculpted concrete block, with a frame roof topped by slate. The building suffered two major blows in 2001: A DUI was killed when he rammed his vehicle into the west end of the building, knocking out most of the wall, and causing major damage. The building, vacant at the time after the failure of a second luncheonette business, was not properly secured after the accident, and fell victim a short time later to a fire of suspicious origin that gutted the interior and roof. The bulding stood at the end of the L&NE Martin's Creek Branch in Alpha Yard along Rt. 611, where the L&NE interchanged with the Bangor & Portland Branch of the Lackawanna, and the Belvidere-Delaware Branch of the Pennsylvania RR. It handled enough traffic to Alpha Cement that it warranted it's own switcher. Joe Gardner was the last L&NE agent. The Martin's Creek Branch was one of the lines purchased by the Jersey Central RR's subsidiary Lehigh & New England Railway Company (L&NE RY) in 1961 to continue operation of profitable segments of the L&NE RR when the railroad finally shut down on October 31st. The CNJ eventually sold the Martins Creek area trackage to the Erie Lackawanna, who continued operations to Con-Agra at Sandts Eddy. Trackage between Uhlers and Sandt's Eddy was abandoned and ripped up (a small portion of the line is preserved today as a hiking trail, which begins at the rather impressive trestle behind the Mineral Springs Hotel on 611), Conrail assumed this line in 1976 and it is currently operated by NS. Of course, the cement business at this location is long gone, but grain for the Con Agra plant is the major commodity. Appreciate any additions or corrections.Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003201c1b8bc$06648d20$897ba8c0_@_home.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:36:53 -0800 From: "Pacific Electric" Subject: (rshsdepot) Fw: [SacNorthern] Rio Linda Depot - ----- Original Message ----- From: "snry27" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:25 Subject: [SacNorthern] Rio Linda Depot The surviving foundation of SN's Rio Linda station was demolished within the past month. The Rio Linda Lions Club and Rio Linda- Elverta Historical Society plan to rebuid the station buildings. The Sacramento County Building Permit folks insisted that the existing foundation could not be re-used because it was not KNOWN to conform to earthquake codes. The Lions Club agreed to demolish the existing foundation with its Northern Electric style cobbles inlaid in the visible surface. Once the demolition began, it was determined that the foundation could have withstood any earthquake imaginable. The tiny 17 x 27 foot foundation took a full week to remove. Now, nothing but a patch of mud remains. This loss was needless. For anybody in California dealing with historic buildings, there is a state Historic Building Safety Board that has safety codes for historic buildings that supersede anything the counties administer. Don't let the county building inspector tell you that you have to rebuild something based on current building codes until you talk to the Historic Building Safety Board. The case of Rio Linda station was unfortunately a case of ignorance of all concerned: the county, the Lions Club, the RL-EHS. The Lions Club fellow spoke to RL-EHS yesterday: "Everything we assumed about how the foundation was built, turned out wrong." My apologies for the length of this. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005201c1b8f3$62a308a0$fe805043_@_JimDent> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:13:21 -0500 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Fw: BOUNCE rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net: Non-member submission from ["Pacific Electric" ] > From: "Pacific Electric" > To: > Subject: Fw: [SacNorthern] Rio Linda Depot > Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:36:53 -0800 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "snry27" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:25 > Subject: [SacNorthern] Rio Linda Depot > > > The surviving foundation of SN's Rio Linda station was demolished > within the past month. The Rio Linda Lions Club and Rio Linda- > Elverta Historical Society plan to rebuid the station buildings. The > Sacramento County Building Permit folks insisted that the existing > foundation could not be re-used because it was not KNOWN to conform > to earthquake codes. The Lions Club agreed to demolish the existing > foundation with its Northern Electric style cobbles inlaid in the > visible surface. Once the demolition began, it was determined that > the foundation could have withstood any earthquake imaginable. The > tiny 17 x 27 foot foundation took a full week to remove. Now, > nothing but a patch of mud remains. > > This loss was needless. For anybody in California dealing with > historic buildings, there is a state Historic Building Safety Board > that has safety codes for historic buildings that supersede anything > the counties administer. Don't let the county building inspector > tell you that you have to rebuild something based on current building > codes until you talk to the Historic Building Safety Board. The case > of Rio Linda station was unfortunately a case of ignorance of all > concerned: the county, the Lions Club, the RL-EHS. The Lions Club > fellow spoke to RL-EHS yesterday: "Everything we assumed about how > the foundation was built, turned out wrong." > > My apologies for the length of this. > > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #292 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <014e01c1b979$67cc53f0$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:12:42 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Wahoo, NE From Altamont Press Newsline... Wahoo railroad station to return to its old self The Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad depot in Wahoo, NE will be restored to early 1900s appearances thanks to a Nebraska Department of Roads grant for the project from federal transportation-enhancement funds and building funds from the Saunders County Historical Society. The depot once sat along a 50-mile on g branch line that opened in 1887 between the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad at Ashland and the Union Pacific Railroad in Schuyler. Passenger trains ran six days a week on the line, which carried consumer goods to Wahoo and shipped out farm products. Service had already begun to slip by 1941, when the Burlington abandoned 19 miles between Schuyler and Prague. An June 1982 flood damaged the line's Salt Creek bridge at Ashland, dooming the last 31 miles. The restoration work should be completed by late summer. Workers will re-side, reproof, repaint and rewire the depot, improve drainage and restore two loading docks outside and a sliding baggage door inside. Future renovation will focus on the inside of the depot, where the two waiting rooms, agent's office and living quarters will be restored to their 1920s appearance. -THE OMAHA WORLD-HERALD, Larry W. Grant ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <015401c1b97a$cb22aac0$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:22:38 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Henderson, KY A letter to the editor of the Henderson, KY Gleaner Letters to The Gleaner: Why must depot die so riverfront lives? Editor: I do not understand why the Union Station Depot must reach the end of its line to help birth an extension of the community's Riverwalk? You can't tell me that a new walking and biking trail is more historically important than the people or items that have passed by or through the doors of the Union Station Depot? There was a great celebration on Aug. 20 1860 when the first rail of the Henderson & Nashville Railroad was laid. The first spike was driven by Captain James W. Clay. John Henry Barret took his own money and bought a locomotive engine. The Baldwin Locomotive, Engine No. 1, known as "The Pony", arrived on Jan. 30, 1869, at the wharf. Several days were consumed in hauling it up the hill and through the streets to the depot where it was soon placed in running order. The mayor and the council as well as several citizens were taken for a ride. William C. Handy, called the "Father of the Blues", came to Henderson in 1888 with a troupe of singers and was at one time an errand boy at J. D. Hambleton's dry goods store. He is said to have credited much of his knowledge of music to what he learned in Henderson. The Liberty Bell was viewed by the public in 1896 while enroute from Atlanta to Philadelphia. The depot has served as the departing and welcoming home place for many servicemen. At the height of World War II, 28 passenger trains passed through Henderson daily. Presidential candidates to visit Henderson by train included Warren G. Harding in 1920, Harry S. Truman and Thomas E. Dewey in 1948 and Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1952. How is it that the depot represents so many different areas of history but we can't seem to save all or part of it for a history museum? Why is it that the depot has to die as, so to speak, so the riverfront can live? To quote the Feb. 28, 1871, article in The Nashville Union and American Newspaper, "What says Henderson?" Netta Mullin Henderson February 16, 2002 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004d01c1b98b$a6a35800$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:23:17 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Teague, TX Links: http://www.therailroadmuseum.com/ (B-RI Railroad Musuem page with photo) http://www.rtis.com/reg/ctbtc/images/teague.jpg (with depot photos) Teague railroad depot exhibits bygone times in community By RICHARD L. SMITH Tribune-Herald staff writer TEAGUE - The sign outside the depot advertises a railroad museum. But one could say that the Burlington-Rock Island Railroad Museum is as much a portal to the soul of a community than a collection of railway artifacts. The Teague museum documents the strong ties between the community and the railroad. It also offers a glimpse of what life was like in bygone days and of those who were there. The nearly century-old building underwent a two-year overhaul that began in 1999, and volunteers are now eager to show off their renovated crown jewel to visitors. "Kids really like 'Big Mike' and the caboose," said Ginny Folsom, who guided a recent tour. Folsom is a Teague bank compliance officer and secretary of the museum's board of trustees. Big Mike is the 1925 Baldwin steam locomotive outside the museum on which children can get up close and personal with the old-timey engine. The black locomotive was donated by the W.T. Carter and Brother Lumber Co. The company once used the train at its former sawmill in the East Texas town of Camden. The caboose was given to the museum by the Burlington Northern Railroad. That was the predecessor of the Burlington Northern Santa Fe that now runs freight trains through Teague. The static rail pieces come from outside Teague. But inside the museum are many relics from the town's past. What's inside is much more than train and railroad history. The price tag was about $20,000 for the train depot that would also serve as headquarters for the Trinity & Brazos Valley Railway, said Folsom. The railroad originally ran from Hillsboro to Cleburne but was linked to Teague in 1906. Like many train lines of the time, the Trinity & Brazos Valley was christened with a nickname, the "Boll Weevil," in light of the many farmers the line ferried to conferences held on eradicating the cotton pest. The depot is described as a mixture of Romanesque and Prairie architecture. Such designs were popular when construction started in 1906. The building was completed the next year. Visitors to the museum enter through an octagonal-shaped area known as the "rotunda." The room features five towering archways that lead to adjoining rooms. Among these rooms are the waiting areas for passengers, once-segregated rooms for black and white travelers. The ground floor of the museum hosts an assortment of railroad photos, including those taken by Teague photographer Harry Hippel. His wife worked as a hostess on passenger trains. "We really have acquired a wonderful heritage of photos from people who were right there," Folsom said. Also at ground level is an assortment of railroad memorabilia ranging from striped engineers' hats and ancient rail passes to old kerosene lamps that watchmen used for signaling. A noticeable piece of history on the first floor that is not a rail artifact is a large Cottrell printing press. It printed the Teague Chronicle from 1906 until 1976. The upstairs portion of the museum served as railway offices until 1968. The depot by that time was jointly owned by the Fort Worth & Denver Railway and the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific Railroad. Those two firms sold the building for $1 to the city of Teague. The city council appointed a museum committee and the museum opened in 1970. Today, the 15 former offices upstairs feature different aspects of history. One room displays a variety of items, including a collection of old wedding dresses. An unusual wicker basket also stands in the room. The basket functioned in bygone days as a temporary casket to take a body from a home to an embalmer. One display notes February's Black History Month. Folsom said the Teague chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People loaned the museum pieces ranging from a doll collection to ebony carvings. Rooms upstairs include one dedicated to Teague's military veterans. It contains numerous uniforms and other armed services memorabilia. Another room depicts an early doctor's office. That room shows a sick bed, an incubator for newborns and assorted medical instruments. Behind the museum stands a 125-year-old, two-room log house that once stood in the Dew community of Freestone County. "They moved it log-by-log and moved it here," said Sharon Johnson, a museum volunteer. The log home has a kitchen on one side of an open "dogtrot," or hallway, and a bedroom on the opposite side. Both rooms sport fireplaces and are furnished with items from the period the cabin was built. Teague's interest in the museum is illustrated in the many photographs and relics that have been donated, Folsom said. So many pieces have been given that items are rotated for viewing. She said the museum was renovated with the help of a state transportation grant of $540,000 and local funds of $140,000. The renovation began in 1999 and was completed in February 2001. The overhaul required meticulous work, Folsom said, because of rules that come with the depot's listing on the National Register of Historic Places. Volunteers keep the museum running. Volunteer Betty French said the youngsters from groups including the local 4-H Club and National Honor Society are among the hardest workers of all. Folsom said the museum encourages younger people to become involved. "We want to let the kids see how things work," she said. "They've kind of lost touch with that." The museum is open from 1 to 5 p.m. on Saturdays and Sundays with other tours available by appointment. Richard L. Smith can be reached at rsmith_@_wacotrib.com or at 757-5745. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:47:39 EST From: Dherbert53_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Teague, TX Where's Teague, Texas? Yes, I know how to use Mapquest, but I'm lazy today. D. Dean Carroll ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002e01c1b9bd$d57a3cc0$14489a40_@_paul> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:22:11 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) 12 digit pallindrome tomorrow at In military 24 hour clock time tomorrow at 8:02 PM (20:02) the date will be 2002 0220 2002 (time, month& day, year)... For the European palindrome of three perfectly identical 4 digit numbers see below: Believe it or not, 8.02pm on February 20 this year will be an historic moment in time. It will not be marked by the chiming of any clocks or the ringing of bells, but at that precise time, on that specific date, something will happen which has not occurred for 1,001 years and will never happen again. As the clock ticks over from 8.01pm on Wednesday, February 20, time will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry 2002, 2002, 2002, or to be more precise - 20:02, 20/02, 2002. The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern was long before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock at 10.01am on January 10, 1001. And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, it is something that will NEVER happen again. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <026a01c1b9c0$5e261ce0$f045fd3f_@_0019873538> References: <014501c1b6b5$dc1230c0$b96af6d1_@_paul> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:40:25 -0500 From: "Ulster & Delaware RR HS - President" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Fw: Bay Ridge and Lake Shore Railroad Bay Ridge and Lake Shore shows up in a couple of 1870's New York State Engineer's Reports, with letter reports saying they haven't really done anything yet, then one saying they are waiting because they believe the Long Island Central will be building to Bay Ridge, then they disappear. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul S. Luchter To: RSHSDepot Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 1:47 AM Subject: (rshsdepot) Fw: Bay Ridge and Lake Shore Railroad > this was the correct page for the Fort Hamilton map > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blkyn/Map/Ft.Ham.html > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul S. Luchter > To: RSHSDepot > Date: Saturday, February 16, 2002 1:31 AM > Subject: Bay Ridge and Lake Shore Railroad > > > On this map of Fort Hamilton from 1873: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blkyn/Map/Maps.Main.html > there is a dashed line titled "Bay Shore and Lake Shore RR Property" > > I forget if I ever knew what this was about, anyone know? > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #293 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001f01c1b9fe$f15202c0$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:08:35 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Cleburne, TX Depot's future in question By: Rob Fraser, Times-Review Writer February 19, 2002 There may be a little glimmer of light at the end of the Trinity & Brazos Valley Railroad Depot tunnel for fans of the structure. Dan Roberts, owner of the building, and Shane Hopkins, a trustee for the Santa Fe #3417 Historical Foundation, said they were exploring the possibility of obtaining the necessary bonding to insure repairs would be made to the building to satisfy the city's requirement. The bonding information would have to be presented to the Cleburne City Council at the Feb. 26 meeting, if the council approved the item, they could order the building and standards commission to delay the scheduled March 1 demolition. Hopkins said he had a brief meeting with City Manager Chester Nolen Monday morning after he heard Nolen say on radio Friday if the repairs were bonded the council "was of the mind they would go ahead and extend the life of the depot and the four walls to stay up." Hopkins said he had "no confirmation of that." Hopkins said he had no telephone calls and checked with Dan (Roberts) to see if he had anything and he decided to visit with the city manager. He said Nolen told him if there was a bond to guarantee a roof was put on, the windows boarded up and the bricks mortared - that would go to the council and could be sufficient to stop the demolition. "So I specifically asked him what we had to do to do that. There's got to be some sort of time frame and Tom (Mayor Tom Hazlewood) said the building was going to come down on March 1. We're willing to do this but obviously it's going to take us a couple of days to figure out the ins and outs of how we bond it," Hopkins said. Roberts and Hopkins said they were not sure what all was entailed in this kind of a bonding situation and "that is one of the things we are trying to find out." Hopkins said he thought Roberts would have to do the bonding and the historical foundation would assist. Roberts would retain ownership of the building and the foundation's role "will be worked out as we get down the road." Roberts has begun to investigate exactly what the city is going to need as far as permitting "and exactly what they want." Nolen said he "is kind of in the dark in the sense that I don't know what exactly - and specifically what - the process would be." Presumably they would need to go to an insurance or bonding company who would write a bond or make a determination on who they could escrow the funds for the necessary repairs, he said. "That's always been an option," Nolen said, "if the repairs that were outlined in the original agreement were completed (the roof, doors and windows and remortaring the bricks). If those three items were completed then that presumably would make the demolition order go away." Nolen said, "Until the council is presented the documentation and information we have to proceed with the direction we were headed, which was to forward the documentation to the state giving them notice that the facility was to be demolished." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002501c1b9ff$ace878c0$4bfa2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:13:50 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station - Denver, CO Union Station project gains developers RTD, Chicago-based company are negotiating on initial phase By John Rebchook, News Real Estate Editor - Rocky Mountain News The Regional Transportation District has chosen to negotiate with a development team headed by Jones Lang LaSalle for the initial phase of a $900 million redevelopment of the Denver Union Station. "We haven't won. What we've done is made it through to the next round," said Suzanne Oldham of the Denver office of Jones Lang LaSalle. Oldham will be the team leader for the group, which also includes the Denver firms of David Owen Tryba Architects, Continuum Partners, and Civitas Inc. RTD announced last week that two finalists were teams headed by Jones Lang LaSalle and RNL Design. The RNL team also included Mile High Properties of Denver and Catellus, a San Francisco-based developer with a large Denver-area presence. The 20-year development of the Union Station, or Denver Union Terminal, and the land around it will ultimately be the transportation nexus for the entire region and would include retail, housing and offices. Scott Reed, spokesman for RTD, said until it enters into a contract, "Basically, we have not selected a finalist." The Jones Lang LaSalle team is in a similar position as Intrawest Corp. The city of Denver picked Intrawest over East West Partners to develop Winter Park, but a contract is yet to be signed. The project will put Denver in the national spotlight, Denver architect David Tryba said. "The country is very well aware of what Denver is doing as a model city for transportation and land use, and this is the crown jewel of all that," Tryba said. In addition to RTD, the Colorado Department of Transportation, the city of Denver and the Denver Regional Council of Government all are working with the private sector on the project, he said. The initial scope of the project is to conduct an environmental assessment, create a master plan and provide the preliminary engineering, Oldham said. "Everyone on our team is excited that we would come up with the best plan and ultimately be the developer," Oldham said. Chicago-based Jones Lang LaSalle provides real-estate and investment-management services. It has a market cap of $527 million. Tenant representation, property management, leasing, finance and valuations are among the services it provides. Tryba, with RNL, is designing the $132 million Civic Center building under construction and was the architect on the 16 Market Square office and retail project developed by Continuum that was named Tuesday as top office development of more than 100,000 square feet by the National Association of Office and Industrial Parks. Continuum also is turning the former Villa Italia regional mall into a $400 million-plus downtown for Lakewood. Civitas, the other local player, developed the $20 million Commons Park in the Central Platte Valley. Another member of the team is the New York City-based architectural firm of Beyer Blinder Belle, which handled the renovation and restoration of Grand Central Terminal and Ellis Island in New York. Tryba worked for the firm about 20 years ago. Other members of the team include ARUP + Partners engineers, the engineering firm of Parsons Brinckerhoff, TranSystems Corp. for the heavy-rail lines, and CRL Associates for public-involvement issues. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002e01c1b9bd$d57a3cc0$14489a40_@_paul> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:06:19 -0600 (CST) From: Andy Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) 12 digit pallindrome tomorrow at Actually, since your message only talked about pallindrome-type reflective symmetry, and didn't mention any restrictions about only using 2 numerals, it is not entirely correct. There was an earlier palindrome this year on January 10 at 8:02PM (20:02 01/10 2002) and will be another on March 30 at 8:02PM (20:02 03/30 2002). We'll also have November 11 and December 21 this year. And, in fact, similar ones happened *last* year on those same dates at 10:02AM (10:02 01/10 2001, etc.). Now, the European style dates (day/month) are something else. The displacement symmetry (repetition of 2002) in addition to the reflective symmetry. THAT'S something that rare enough to only ever happen twice. Just call me pedantic. - -Andy On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Paul S. Luchter wrote: > Subject: (rshsdepot) 12 digit pallindrome tomorrow at > > In military 24 hour clock time tomorrow at 8:02 PM (20:02) the date > will be 2002 0220 2002 (time, month& day, year)... > > Believe it or not, 8.02pm on February 20 this year will be an historic > moment in time. > > It will not be marked by the chiming of any clocks or the ringing of > bells, but at that precise time, on that specific date, something will > happen which has not occurred for 1,001 years and will never happen > again. > > As the clock ticks over from 8.01pm on Wednesday, February 20, > time will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry > 2002, 2002, 2002, or to be more precise - 20:02, 20/02, 2002. > > The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern > was long before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock at > 10.01am on January 10, 1001. > > And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, it is something > that will NEVER happen again. > - -- There's a trend by businesses go get people away from the "buy once, use forever" way of thinking. Corporations would prefer that we "rent" and "license" everything. The day is coming when our Internet-enabled toaster will charge our credit cards for each slice of toast we make. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003301c1ba7d$79d0f420$274af6d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:14:18 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) 12 digit pallindrome tomorrow at also year 1111 - -----Original Message----- From: Andy Ingraham Dwyer To: Paul S. Luchter Cc: Henry Rosenberg ; Rick Pinard ; Vagn Andersen ; adinolfi Stefano ; Henk P. Burgman ; Jon Watson ; Craig Kerr ; Floyd Minana ; prynSess2@aol.com ; Kim Kramer ; Spunky ; Mike Rodenburger ; Craig Parada ; Geordie Burdick ; Clone ; 97 ; Derek Hoyle ; vicki Gaia ; Jamie ; GMallis ; RSHSDepot ; Chew Date: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:12 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) 12 digit pallindrome tomorrow at > >Actually, since your message only talked about pallindrome-type reflective >symmetry, and didn't mention any restrictions about only using 2 numerals, >it is not entirely correct. > >There was an earlier palindrome this year on January 10 at 8:02PM >(20:02 01/10 2002) and will be another on March 30 at 8:02PM >(20:02 03/30 2002). We'll also have November 11 and December 21 this >year. > >And, in fact, similar ones happened *last* year on >those same dates at 10:02AM (10:02 01/10 2001, etc.). > >Now, the European style dates (day/month) are something else. The >displacement symmetry (repetition of 2002) in addition to the reflective >symmetry. THAT'S something that rare enough to only ever happen twice. > > >Just call me pedantic. > > >-Andy > > >On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Paul S. Luchter wrote: > >> Subject: (rshsdepot) 12 digit pallindrome tomorrow at >> >> In military 24 hour clock time tomorrow at 8:02 PM (20:02) the date >> will be 2002 0220 2002 (time, month& day, year)... >> >> Believe it or not, 8.02pm on February 20 this year will be an historic >> moment in time. >> >> It will not be marked by the chiming of any clocks or the ringing of >> bells, but at that precise time, on that specific date, something will >> happen which has not occurred for 1,001 years and will never happen >> again. >> >> As the clock ticks over from 8.01pm on Wednesday, February 20, >> time will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry >> 2002, 2002, 2002, or to be more precise - 20:02, 20/02, 2002. >> >> The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern >> was long before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock at >> 10.01am on January 10, 1001. >> >> And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, it is something >> that will NEVER happen again. >> > >-- >There's a trend by businesses go get people away from the "buy once, use >forever" way of thinking. Corporations would prefer that we "rent" and >"license" everything. The day is coming when our Internet-enabled toaster >will charge our credit cards for each slice of toast we make. > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #294 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001701c1bb90$b66d84c0$45fc2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:04:34 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Elizabethtown, PA Photo links: http://www.stationfoundation.org/images/grantstat/elizabethtown.jpg http://images.zwire.com/local/Z/Zwire2248/zwire/images/ACF5BAB142.jpg Amtrak's woes may hinder plans to restore train station By: Kevin Hensil, For the Elizabethtown Chronicle - February 21, 2002 Plans to restore Elizabethtown's train station may have suffered a serious setback from Washington on Valentine's Day. Since 1998, the borough has been working with Amtrak to revitalize and reopen the train station building for the first time since the 1970's. "It's a historic treasure to our community," said Roni Ryan, Elizabethtown's Director of Community Development. "Just being able to restore the station is important and of course it would encourage travel and economic development." However, the future of Amtrak itself is now in question. Amtrak lost more than $1 billion last year and is considering cutting some long-distance routes. A Congressionally-appointed panel told the House Transportation Committee on Feb. 14 that Amtrak should be broken up to give the free market an opportunity to improve the nation's passenger train system. "Sadly, Amtrak has proven that it cannot concentrate on its core mission of running trains and running them well," Gil Carmichael, the chairman of the Amtrak Reform Council, said. While Amtrak trains currently stop at the train platform in Elizabethtown, the building has been closed for close to 30 years. The Pennsylvania Railroad originally built the station in 1925. After re-signing a 99-year lease with Amtrak in 1998, the borough began looking into reopening the station. The restoration plans include renovating and remodeling the interior, making the platform compliant with handicap regulations and improving parking. Travelers would be able to use the building to buy tickets and get information. Eventually other amenities may be added, such as a visitors' center, shops or a restaurant. "We hope increased accessibility and beauty will encourage people to use the station," Ryan said. She says borough officials believe the renovated train station would be useful to residents who commute to work, college students, and visitors to Masonic Homes. Plus, as more people use the train, the borough hopes to reduce traffic on Market Street. The Elizabethtown Economic Development Corporation is currently funding a study to determine if the downtown business district could be expanded along High Street to the train station. The estimated cost to reopen the station is $2 million. The borough has secured local, state and federal grants to cover much of the work. Amtrak, as owner of the station, would contribute several hundred thousand dollars. Ryan says the borough is waiting for Amtrak to approve or reject the plan. If approved, restoration work could be compete within a year. Still, Amtrak's larger troubles seem to loom over the entire project. The Amtrak Reform Council is proposing selling off some of Amtrak's routes to private companies. The impact it would have on Elizabethtown's train station plans is not known. "We'll just have to wait and see," Ryan said. Elizabethtown may also lose a major advocate in Washington. The borough has been working closely with Rep. Geroge Gekas to secure funding. However, when new Congressional boundaries go into effect later this year, Elizabethtown will no longer be in Gekas' district. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008201c1bc31$5c153e40$a6ac9840_@_paul> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 01:14:29 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) OT: palindrome party games (aka: #196) http://www.floot.demon.co.uk/palindromes.html ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #295 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00f001c1bc81$9f83c2a0$301f0142_@_sprint> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:48:59 -0700 From: "Tom Fassett" Subject: (rshsdepot) Rail "fan" sociology study questionaire We are researching for cross-cultural material for a sociology study which will eventually be condensed into a book (working title: Tracking the Train - a Social and Cultural Analysis of Train Travel). We will let anyone involved know when it is published. All respondents will have pseudonyms, so you may be assured that your confidentiality will be respected. If any of you have websites, we'd be really grateful if you could post our questions and the email address (listed below) on them. Thanks to those who have already announced the research. We have had a good response so far, especially from New Zealand. We very much look forward to hearing from you. email to: gillian_@_reynolds200.freeserve.co.uk Thank you for your interest in our research on trains and train travel. Gillian Reynolds PhD, and Gayle Letherby PhD What follows is a short series of initial questions about your interest in trains. Please be as detailed as you can in your replies. Nothing is too insignificant to say. We really are interested in the smallest of the issues involved. 1. How long have you been interested in trains and/or train travel and what sparked off your interest in the first place? 2. What do you particularly like about trains and/or train travel? 3. What do you find annoying or unpleasant about trains and/or train travel? 4. If you ride a train, what do you tend to do while you traveling? (Please be as specific as you can - e.g. if your activities vary, is there a reason that you change activities? If you travel frequently it may be helpful to 'think' yourself through a particular journey) 5. Is it ok to come back to you for further clarification and/or questions? Thanks again, Gillian Reynolds PhD, and Gayle Letherby PhD original message: ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000d01c1bc8d$78f1aec0$a27ff2d0_@_lner4472> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:12:56 -0500 From: "Alexander D. Mitchell IV" Subject: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List Dear Friends, The owner/editor of www.bullsheet.com , a fan/employee site by a former CSX tower operator, has passed me a list of preserved interlocking towers. Before posting it on his site, he's looking for confirmations, corrections, and/or additions. I'm posting an abbreviated list here; anyone knowing of corrections, hit the "reply" button. The following towers are either formally preserved, in the process of preservation, or targeted for preservation: Elvas, Sacramento, CA: owned by CSRM Santa Clara, CA SP at depot South Norwalk, CT: Berk, privately owned Harrington, DE ex-PRR Franklin Park, IL, MILW B-12, downtown Ramsey, IL NKP-IC IRM Union IL, former Spaulding, IL Griffith, IN EJ&E moved to museum Haley and Spring Hill, Terre Haute, IN Bowie, MD Sykesville, MD ex-Baltimore B&P reconstructed Seashore Trolley Museum Tower C, Kennebunkport, ME Lansing, MI--need more info Saginaw, MI Mershon C&O Tuckahoe, NJ PRSL not formally preserved yet but targeted Waldwick, NY Erie Ellicottville, NY B&O private Mechanicville, NY--more info needed Bradford, OH possible private preservation Brady Lake OH PRR used for storage by Park Cincinnati CUT Tower A Dover, OH--moved to museum Grafton, OH NYC Leetonia, OH PRR Marion, OH Erie moved & shortened Orrville, OH PRR moved Toledo, OH NYC to become bike trail office E. Stroudsburg, PA DL&W Harrisburg PA Harris Huntingdon, PA Hunt Mahoningtown, PA B&O UN moved Scranton, PA at Steamtown Strasburg PA Lemo Kingston, RI NH moved Chattanooga TN moved to Chatt Choo Choo Dallas TX Tower 19 at Age of Steam Museum Flatonia TX SP moved Lulling TX SP moved Eau Claire, WI CNW moved to park LaCrosse, WI moved to park Martinsburg, WV Miller moved to town Any more? Alexander D. Mitchell IV lner4472_@_bcpl.net ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 17:25:58 From: "Don Dorflinger" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List Here are two corrections/clarifications: Change Waldwick (Erie) from NY to New JERSEY. Also, the tower is privately owned and will eventually be restored. It's designation was "WC." Also, the ex-DL&W tower at Steamtown, Scranton, PA was formally known as "Bridge 60." >From: "Alexander D. Mitchell IV" >Reply-To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >To: "Jim Wrinn" , "Alex Mayes" , "Erik Ledbetter" , "Bob Yarger" , >Subject: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List >Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:12:56 -0500 > >Dear Friends, > >The owner/editor of www.bullsheet.com , a fan/employee site by a former >CSX tower operator, has passed me a list of preserved interlocking >towers. Before posting it on his site, he's looking for confirmations, >corrections, and/or additions. I'm posting an abbreviated list here; >anyone knowing of corrections, hit the "reply" button. > >The following towers are either formally preserved, in the process of >preservation, or targeted for preservation: > >Elvas, Sacramento, CA: owned by CSRM >Santa Clara, CA SP at depot >South Norwalk, CT: Berk, privately owned >Harrington, DE ex-PRR >Franklin Park, IL, MILW B-12, downtown >Ramsey, IL NKP-IC >IRM Union IL, former Spaulding, IL >Griffith, IN EJ&E moved to museum >Haley and Spring Hill, Terre Haute, IN >Bowie, MD >Sykesville, MD ex-Baltimore B&P reconstructed >Seashore Trolley Museum Tower C, Kennebunkport, ME >Lansing, MI--need more info >Saginaw, MI Mershon C&O >Tuckahoe, NJ PRSL not formally preserved yet but targeted >Waldwick, NY Erie >Ellicottville, NY B&O private >Mechanicville, NY--more info needed >Bradford, OH possible private preservation >Brady Lake OH PRR used for storage by Park >Cincinnati CUT Tower A >Dover, OH--moved to museum >Grafton, OH NYC >Leetonia, OH PRR >Marion, OH Erie moved & shortened >Orrville, OH PRR moved >Toledo, OH NYC to become bike trail office >E. Stroudsburg, PA DL&W >Harrisburg PA Harris >Huntingdon, PA Hunt >Mahoningtown, PA B&O UN moved >Scranton, PA at Steamtown >Strasburg PA Lemo >Kingston, RI NH moved >Chattanooga TN moved to Chatt Choo Choo >Dallas TX Tower 19 at Age of Steam Museum >Flatonia TX SP moved >Lulling TX SP moved >Eau Claire, WI CNW moved to park >LaCrosse, WI moved to park >Martinsburg, WV Miller moved to town > >Any more? > >Alexander D. Mitchell IV >lner4472_@_bcpl.net Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:50:57 -0500 (EST) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List > > >From: "Alexander D. Mitchell IV" > >Reply-To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net > >To: "Jim Wrinn" , "Alex Mayes" , "Erik Ledbetter" , "Bob Yarger" , > >Subject: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List > >Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:12:56 -0500 > >Strasburg PA Lemo That PRR tower was known as both LEMO and J and was at Lemoyne, PA across the river from Harrisburg. It was moved to Strasburg for preservation. There is a NYC tower on the abandoned T&OC in Fostoria, OH, but I do not believe it is slated for preservation. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002801c1bcaa$b8023860$0117e943_@_default> References: <000d01c1bc8d$78f1aec0$a27ff2d0_@_lner4472> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:43:11 -0600 From: "Verne and Joan Brummel" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List This is not a correction, but just a little information on the two Wisconsin towers: The one in Eau Claire was known as "Eau Claire Tower" and "Eau Claire Jct."; it protected the junction of Soo Line and Milwaukee Road branch lines with the old Eastern Division main line of the CStPM&O "Omaha Road" (C&NW). The UP today runs a few trains daily past the old tower site, along its Milwaukee - Adams - Twin Cities secondary main. The tower preserved at La Crosse is the "Grand Crossing" tower, formerly located at the crossing of the Chicago - Twin Cities main lines of today's BNSF and CP (ex -CB&Q and Milwaukee Road). The UP (ex-C&NW) also runs trains past this tower site. Early on, Grand Crossing was the junction of four railroads: the CB&Q, Milw. Rd., C&NW, and a little known branch line of the Green Bay & Western, which was abandoned in the 1920's. - --- LaVerne Brummel, Fitchburg,WI - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexander D. Mitchell IV To: Jim Wrinn ; Alex Mayes ; Erik Ledbetter ; Bob Yarger ; Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 11:12 AM Subject: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List > Dear Friends, > > The owner/editor of www.bullsheet.com , a fan/employee site by a former > CSX tower operator, has passed me a list of preserved interlocking > towers. Before posting it on his site, he's looking for confirmations, > corrections, and/or additions. I'm posting an abbreviated list here; > anyone knowing of corrections, hit the "reply" button. > > The following towers are either formally preserved, in the process of > preservation, or targeted for preservation: > > Elvas, Sacramento, CA: owned by CSRM > Santa Clara, CA SP at depot > South Norwalk, CT: Berk, privately owned > Harrington, DE ex-PRR > Franklin Park, IL, MILW B-12, downtown > Ramsey, IL NKP-IC > IRM Union IL, former Spaulding, IL > Griffith, IN EJ&E moved to museum > Haley and Spring Hill, Terre Haute, IN > Bowie, MD > Sykesville, MD ex-Baltimore B&P reconstructed > Seashore Trolley Museum Tower C, Kennebunkport, ME > Lansing, MI--need more info > Saginaw, MI Mershon C&O > Tuckahoe, NJ PRSL not formally preserved yet but targeted > Waldwick, NY Erie > Ellicottville, NY B&O private > Mechanicville, NY--more info needed > Bradford, OH possible private preservation > Brady Lake OH PRR used for storage by Park > Cincinnati CUT Tower A > Dover, OH--moved to museum > Grafton, OH NYC > Leetonia, OH PRR > Marion, OH Erie moved & shortened > Orrville, OH PRR moved > Toledo, OH NYC to become bike trail office > E. Stroudsburg, PA DL&W > Harrisburg PA Harris > Huntingdon, PA Hunt > Mahoningtown, PA B&O UN moved > Scranton, PA at Steamtown > Strasburg PA Lemo > Kingston, RI NH moved > Chattanooga TN moved to Chatt Choo Choo > Dallas TX Tower 19 at Age of Steam Museum > Flatonia TX SP moved > Lulling TX SP moved > Eau Claire, WI CNW moved to park > LaCrosse, WI moved to park > Martinsburg, WV Miller moved to town > > Any more? > > Alexander D. Mitchell IV > lner4472_@_bcpl.net > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001c01c1bcba$6a19cfe0$301f0142_@_sprint> References: <000d01c1bc8d$78f1aec0$a27ff2d0_@_lner4472> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:35:36 -0700 From: "Tom Fassett" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List How about Hobart Tower in Los Angeles. I know it is about to be "decommissioned" (or has been already) but it is still standing and was still in use 6 months ago. It presides over the Union Pacific, BNSF (ex ATSF) diamond just west of Hobart Yard in central Los Angeles. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexander D. Mitchell IV To: Jim Wrinn ; Alex Mayes ; Erik Ledbetter ; Bob Yarger ; rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 10:12 AM Subject: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List Dear Friends, The owner/editor of www.bullsheet.com , a fan/employee site by a former CSX tower operator, has passed me a list of preserved interlocking towers. Before posting it on his site, he's looking for confirmations, corrections, and/or additions. I'm posting an abbreviated list here; anyone knowing of corrections, hit the "reply" button. The following towers are either formally preserved, in the process of preservation, or targeted for preservation: Elvas, Sacramento, CA: owned by CSRM Santa Clara, CA SP at depot South Norwalk, CT: Berk, privately owned Harrington, DE ex-PRR Franklin Park, IL, MILW B-12, downtown Ramsey, IL NKP-IC IRM Union IL, former Spaulding, IL Griffith, IN EJ&E moved to museum Haley and Spring Hill, Terre Haute, IN Bowie, MD Sykesville, MD ex-Baltimore B&P reconstructed Seashore Trolley Museum Tower C, Kennebunkport, ME Lansing, MI--need more info Saginaw, MI Mershon C&O Tuckahoe, NJ PRSL not formally preserved yet but targeted Waldwick, NY Erie Ellicottville, NY B&O private Mechanicville, NY--more info needed Bradford, OH possible private preservation Brady Lake OH PRR used for storage by Park Cincinnati CUT Tower A Dover, OH--moved to museum Grafton, OH NYC Leetonia, OH PRR Marion, OH Erie moved & shortened Orrville, OH PRR moved Toledo, OH NYC to become bike trail office E. Stroudsburg, PA DL&W Harrisburg PA Harris Huntingdon, PA Hunt Mahoningtown, PA B&O UN moved Scranton, PA at Steamtown Strasburg PA Lemo Kingston, RI NH moved Chattanooga TN moved to Chatt Choo Choo Dallas TX Tower 19 at Age of Steam Museum Flatonia TX SP moved Lulling TX SP moved Eau Claire, WI CNW moved to park LaCrosse, WI moved to park Martinsburg, WV Miller moved to town Any more? Alexander D. Mitchell IV lner4472_@_bcpl.net ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004201c1bcc9$ad0c5700$2414fe3f_@_oemcomputer> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:22:39 -0500 From: "President, Ulster & Delaware RR Historical Society" Subject: (rshsdepot) Wallkill Valley Kingston Depot? To help us celebrate Kingston (NY)'s 350th (or 250th, or 300th - no one's sure which grand event they're celebrating, but it's historic) birthday, can anyone lead us to a picture of the Wallkill Valley's original depot? They arrived in Kingston from the south in about 1872, and before Thomas Cornell bought them in foreclosure and allied them with the Ulster & Delaware, they had a depot on Union Avenue in Kingston that the local papers dismissed as a "rotten derelict". Thanks Steve Delibert ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000d01c1bceb$cc8095c0$fe805043_@_JimDent> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:29:07 -0500 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Fw: South Gilboa Depot of the U&D - ----- Original Message ----- > From: "President, Ulster & Delaware RR Historical Society" > To: > Subject: South Gilboa Depot of the U&D > Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:24:48 -0500 > > Another request: we're trying to help the local historical society, which > wants to restore the U&D South Gilboa depot. We have just one, pretty plain > and not very clear, photo of it, but there must be more out there--- who can > help us help them? > Thanks > Steve Delibert > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #296 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004301c1bcc9$addd62a0$2414fe3f_@_oemcomputer> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:24:48 -0500 From: "President, Ulster & Delaware RR Historical Society" Subject: (rshsdepot) South Gilboa Depot of the U&D Another request: we're trying to help the local historical society, which wants to restore the U&D South Gilboa depot. We have just one, pretty plain and not very clear, photo of it, but there must be more out there--- who can help us help them? Thanks Steve Delibert ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000801c1bd4f$237f5ce0$698f13cf_@_lner4472> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:20:08 -0500 From: "Alexander D. Mitchell IV" Subject: (rshsdepot) Philadelphia Inquirer 02-24-2002 Saving treasures that benefit few The Philadelphia Inquirer today published what could be considered a scathing attack upon tax incentives for historic preservation and/or easement protection of private properties. Of course the primary examples portrayed are ritzy apartment buildings and country clubs. But all other examples aside, such tax breaks have been critical to the preservation of many historic structures--such as railroad stations as restaurants. This article warrants review and philosophical debate by all who not only pay taxes but engage in preservation of historic structures. The article is at: http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/2736126.htm Your commentary, hurrahs, critiques, etc. invited--both to me or this forum and to the newspaper. Alexander D. Mitchell IV ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000d01c1bc8d$78f1aec0$a27ff2d0_@_lner4472> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:46:23 -0600 (CST) From: Andy Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: > Tuckahoe, NJ PRSL not formally preserved yet but targeted I believe Tuckahoe's letters were KG. Cape May Seashore Lines will eventually extend their stretch of active line up as far as Tuckahoe, but in the meantime, there is a tower and restored station at Cold Springs (an historic village). I don't believe the tower is original to the location, though. FK was the closest tower that I could find on my maps and block diagrams; it was at the north edge of Cape May city, and dates back to WJ&SL. It may be possible that FK was moved north the few miles to this location. A call to CMSL may yield a more certain answer. - -Andy - -- "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky, Digital Library Project, UC Berkeley. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001b01c1bd8a$e408c100$d353f6d1_@_paul> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:27:54 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List Explain more about the Cape May Seashore line going to Tuckahoe... - -----Original Message----- From: Andy Ingraham Dwyer To: A clinking, clanking, clattering collection of caliginous junk collectors ; Alexander D. Mitchell IV Date: Sunday, February 24, 2002 2:50 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List >On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: > >> Tuckahoe, NJ PRSL not formally preserved yet but targeted > >I believe Tuckahoe's letters were KG. > >Cape May Seashore Lines will eventually extend their stretch of active >line up as far as Tuckahoe, but in the meantime, there is a tower and >restored station at Cold Springs (an historic village). I don't believe >the tower is original to the location, though. FK was the closest tower >that I could find on my maps and block diagrams; it was at the north edge >of Cape May city, and dates back to WJ&SL. It may be possible that FK was >moved north the few miles to this location. A call to CMSL may yield a >more certain answer. > > >-Andy > > >-- > "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards > could produce the complete works of Shakespeare. > Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." > -Robert Wilensky, Digital Library Project, UC Berkeley. > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001301c1bd9b$332926c0$a140f6d1_@_paul> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:24:20 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) DLW double-deck draw Newark lifted and moved 1903 NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo DLWdraw.jpg (image/jpeg, 162855 bytes) "To Shift a Big Bridge". New double-deck draw in Newark installed. December 7, 1903 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003001c1bda1$cb026280$a140f6d1_@_paul> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 21:11:45 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) load intensive LIRR site A very load intensive LIRR gallery at http://arrts-arrchives.com/ ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #297 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:08:03 -0500 From: "James Kelling" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List Scranton also has an abandoned tower near the former DL&W station, now a hotel. Also COLA at Columbia, PA. >>> LNER4472_@_bcpl.net 02/23/02 12:12PM >>> Dear Friends, The owner/editor of www.bullsheet.com , a fan/employee site by a former CSX tower operator, has passed me a list of preserved interlocking towers. Before posting it on his site, he's looking for confirmations, corrections, and/or additions. I'm posting an abbreviated list here; anyone knowing of corrections, hit the "reply" button. The following towers are either formally preserved, in the process of preservation, or targeted for preservation: Elvas, Sacramento, CA: owned by CSRM Santa Clara, CA SP at depot South Norwalk, CT: Berk, privately owned Harrington, DE ex-PRR Franklin Park, IL, MILW B-12, downtown Ramsey, IL NKP-IC IRM Union IL, former Spaulding, IL Griffith, IN EJ&E moved to museum Haley and Spring Hill, Terre Haute, IN Bowie, MD Sykesville, MD ex-Baltimore B&P reconstructed Seashore Trolley Museum Tower C, Kennebunkport, ME Lansing, MI--need more info Saginaw, MI Mershon C&O Tuckahoe, NJ PRSL not formally preserved yet but targeted Waldwick, NY Erie Ellicottville, NY B&O private Mechanicville, NY--more info needed Bradford, OH possible private preservation Brady Lake OH PRR used for storage by Park Cincinnati CUT Tower A Dover, OH--moved to museum Grafton, OH NYC Leetonia, OH PRR Marion, OH Erie moved & shortened Orrville, OH PRR moved Toledo, OH NYC to become bike trail office E. Stroudsburg, PA DL&W Harrisburg PA Harris Huntingdon, PA Hunt Mahoningtown, PA B&O UN moved Scranton, PA at Steamtown Strasburg PA Lemo Kingston, RI NH moved Chattanooga TN moved to Chatt Choo Choo Dallas TX Tower 19 at Age of Steam Museum Flatonia TX SP moved Lulling TX SP moved Eau Claire, WI CNW moved to park LaCrosse, WI moved to park Martinsburg, WV Miller moved to town Any more? Alexander D. Mitchell IV lner4472_@_bcpl.net ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:42:27 -0500 (EST) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: (rshsdepot) DLW double-deck draw Newark (fwd) NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo newarkrrbridge.jpg (image/jpeg, 87211 bytes) Content-ID: Frank Czajkowski sent this postcard of the Newark Bridge in the early 20th century showing two trains on the bridge. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:31:22 -0500 From: "James Kelling" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) DLW double-deck draw Newark (fwd) Is the bridge still standing/used? >>> root_@_net.bluemoon.net 02/25/02 11:42AM >>> NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo newarkrrbridge.jpg (image/jpeg, 87211 bytes) Frank Czajkowski sent this postcard of the Newark Bridge in the early 20th century showing two trains on the bridge. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001f01c1be13$9e534d40$2cd3ffd1_@_oemcomputer> References: <000801c1bd4f$237f5ce0$698f13cf_@_lner4472> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:46:38 -0000 From: "Gene Paoli" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Philadelphia Inquirer 02-24-2002 Saving treasures that benefit few Let me get right to the point. There are always cases of abuse. There are always cases of different points of view. Saving any architectural treasure in or near a city that has now become just something you view on your way north or south on I-95 is of paramont importance at any cost. We can always work out the kinks in the system later, but we must save the architecture first. The architecture of most of the United States stems, in large part, from the architecture practiced in Philadelphia and New York. everyone from Louis Sullivan to Daniel Burnham has passed through Philadelphia's ranks of inovative and bold design. Yes even the Chicago School went to kindergarden here first. Lets spend a little more time and boast the many triumphs in preservation. We must become stewards of what came before us. Gene Paoli stationman_@_prodigy.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexander D. Mitchell IV To: Jim Wrinn ; Mike Tisdale ; ; ObsCarRRing ; Hume Kading ; Albert Alecknavage ; Amos Hale Adams Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:20 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Philadelphia Inquirer 02-24-2002 Saving treasures that benefit few > The Philadelphia Inquirer today published what could be considered a > scathing attack upon tax incentives for historic preservation and/or > easement protection of private properties. Of course the primary > examples portrayed are ritzy apartment buildings and country clubs. But > all other examples aside, such tax breaks have been critical to the > preservation of many historic structures--such as railroad stations as > restaurants. This article warrants review and philosophical debate by > all who not only pay taxes but engage in preservation of historic > structures. > > The article is at: > > http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/2736126.htm > > Your commentary, hurrahs, critiques, etc. invited--both to me or this > forum and to the newspaper. > > Alexander D. Mitchell IV ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <413CACCE0349D3118C300004AC38683402E0808C_@_msg1.utoledo.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:23:40 -0500 From: MCamp_@_utnet.utoledo.edu Subject: (rshsdepot) Preserved Towers Please note that the request for additional towers refers to preserved towers; not abandoned or still standing towers. Many towers are listed on the RSHS website including known preserved ones. Mark J. Camp ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <01d601c1be4d$9891b650$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:41:42 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Rio Linda, CA From Railway Preservation News... Rio Linda Depot The surviving foundation of SN's Rio Linda station was demolished within the past month. The Rio Linda Lions Club and Rio Linda-Elverta Historical Society plan to rebuid the station buildings. The Sacramento County Building Permit folks insisted that the existing foundation could not be re-used because it was not KNOWN to conform to earthquake codes. The Lions Club agreed to demolish the existing foundation with its Northern Electric style cobbles inlaid in the visible surface. Once the demolition began, it was determined that the foundation could have withstood any earthquake imaginable. The tiny 17 x 27 foot foundation took a full week to remove. Now, nothing but a patch of mud remains. This loss was needless. For anybody in California dealing with historic buildings, there is a state Historic Building Safety Board that has safety codes for historic buildings that supersede anything the counties administer. Don't let the county building inspector tell you that you have to rebuild something based on current building codes until you talk to the Historic Building Safety Board. The case of Rio Linda station was unfortunately a case of ignorance of all concerned: the county, the Lions Club, the RL-EHS. A Lions Club representative spoke to RL-EHS yesterday, "Everything we assumed about how the foundation was built, turned out wrong." (Author unknown, from the SacNorthern Discussion Group) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001b01c1bd8a$e408c100$d353f6d1_@_paul> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:46:02 -0600 (CST) From: Andy Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Paul S. Luchter wrote: > Explain more about the Cape May Seashore line going to Tuckahoe... Several years ago, my family began going to the Ocean City in May. Two years ago, I started exploring around the mainland with an eye toward local history and railroads in particular. I didn't get the chance to do more than glance at Cold Springs station while driving by, but a few days later I was thrilled to come across the restored Tuckahoe station. I half expected to hear a whistle or see someone working inside. That made it all the more startling when the bells at the grade crossing gate suddenly started up! The first bit of sense my mind could make of it was maybe there were some new nuclear fuel rods coming in to the Beesley's Point plant. Turned out to be a workman from conrail putting the gate system through a maintenance test as per regulation. I talked with him for a while, and he filled me in on what he knew about the CMSL operation. He'd heard they hoped to get trackage rights (and funding for maintenance) to come up that far north, but didn't think the odds were good about them going much further. The next year we were out, I made sure to set aside time for me and my (then just under 2 years old, start 'em early!) son to ride the CMSL. We got dropped of at Cold Spring, rode down into Cape May City and then up to the end of the line near the zoo, just north of Cape May Court House. The folks I spoke to at CMSL (ticket agent, engineer, conductors) all said they were negitiating with the state for rights and money to rehab the tracks up to Tuckahoe. Last year, the end-of-the-line stop at the zoo didn't have a shelter that I recall, let alone a station building of any kind. And it's probably more than a half mile walk to any of the buildings associated with the zoo, with the entrance much further along. Even without considering Tuckahoe, that end of the line had a real *interim* feel to it. (I know I didn't snap any pictures at that end.) The other end seemed more finished, what with Cold Spring's restoration, and the new intermodal transit center in the renovated-beyond-recognition depot now known as "Cape May City". After digging in some of my printed materials, I found this just now as well. From _The Keystone_ (Official Pub. of PRR Tech. and Hist. Soc.), Summer 1997 Vol 30, #2: Rail Passenger Service Returns to Cape May County [...] With financial assistance now being provided by the State, direct service to Cape May under this project should be underway early this spring. Final work will include the remaining required Canal Draw Bridge and track work, thus providing the next extension of passenger service running by mid-summer Likewise, rehabilitation of trackage northward to Tuckahoe will be the remaining priority, thus allowing operations the full length of Cape May County. Tuckahoe is the CMSL's interchange point with Conrail. [...] Incidentally, CMSL also maintains their business address in Tuckahoe: Cape May Seashore Lines, Inc. P.O. Box 152 Tuckahoe, NJ 08250-0152 609/884-CMSL (884-2675) - -Andy - -- Trial lawyers are people who make their living exploiting the ambiguity of natural language. They believe rhetoric is an art form, and that the worthiness of an argument is dependent on its expression as much as, if not more, than the facts behind it. To them, logic is a technique of layering and connecting metaphors, not of derivation as in formal systems. (That is, they want to tell a convincing story, not prove the truth.) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C7AD40F.1000506_@_bellsouth.net> References: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:17:19 -0500 From: Seth Bramson Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List Andy Ingraham Dwyer wrote: >On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Paul S. Luchter wrote: > >>Explain more about the Cape May Seashore line going to Tuckahoe... >> Andy: any remains of the Tuckahoe RR? I am always looking for info/material on that fascinating little road. >> > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C7AD40F.1000506_@_bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:31:19 -0600 (CST) From: Andy Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Seth Bramson wrote: > Andy: any remains of the Tuckahoe RR? I am always looking for > info/material on that fascinating little road. I'm afraid I'll need a little more clarification. In all the info I have about RR history in the vicinity of Ocean City NJ, none mention a "Tuckahoe Railroad", or ANY lines with Tuckahoe in their name. I have the trackage at Tuckahoe going through roughly this chronology: Philadelphia and Seashore Railway Company laid line from Winslow Jct. to Sea Isle City (through Tuckahoe) in 1892 P&SRC goes bankrupt later that year, sold to West Jersey Railroad as two companies Winslow & Richland RR and Richland & Petersburg RR As WJR buys route, Atlantic City RR breaks the connection at Winslow Jct, scuttling hope of line connecting to OC. Richland (West Jersey & Atlantic) becomes only possible connection onto trackage. WJR sells the railroad in 1893 to Philly businessmen who formed South Jersey Railroad Company Ocean City Railroad Company (second co of this name) incorp'd in 1986 lays 10 miles of track to connect with aforementioned trackage at "Ocean City Junction", just ease of Petersburg, near Cedar Creek SJR begins running trains from Camden via Winslow / Tuckahoe to OC in 1897 Seacoast Railroad Company acquires SJR assets at foreclosure in 1898 begins operating trains on OCR, which was by then controlled by Reading Seacoast and and Ocean City Railroads consolidated into Philly & Reading or Atlantic City (as controlled by Reading), (unsure which) in 1901 Becomes PRSL in 1933 In late 1890's ACRR branches off from Tuckahoe running south to Cape May, to compete with West Jersey & Seashore for service to the southern resorts. So, again, I don't see exactly what you are asking about. - -Andy - -- "Outlook not so good." Man, that magic 8-ball knows everything! I should ask it about Internet Explorer next. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C7AF8D3.8040106_@_bellsouth.net> References: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:54:11 -0500 From: Seth Bramson Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List Andy Ingraham Dwyer wrote: >On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Seth Bramson wrote: > >>Andy: any remains of the Tuckahoe RR? I am always looking for >>info/material on that fascinating little road. >> >I'm afraid I'll need a little more clarification. In all the info I have >about RR history in the vicinity of Ocean City NJ, none mention a >"Tuckahoe Railroad", or ANY lines with Tuckahoe in their name. > >>>>Did I mess up the name, folks? Wasn't it the Tuckahoe that ran out of Barnegat, or did I misremember the name? > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <007701c1be72$3e3822a0$2f48f6d1_@_paul> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:03:55 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Philadelphia Inquirer 02-24-2002 Saving treasures that benefit few Yeah we are under attack on all fronts, landmark preservation, national train service (did you see where the Times said about that-save the corridor and trash all the rest as silly nostalgia) it was only inevitable, the progressive forces are in retreat, why should our particular pleasures be exempt from the Neanderthal minds? - -----Original Message----- From: Gene Paoli To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:49 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Philadelphia Inquirer 02-24-2002 Saving treasures that benefit few >Let me get right to the point. There are always cases of abuse. There are >always cases of different points of view. Saving any architectural treasure >in or near a city that has now become just something you view on your way >north or south on I-95 is of paramont importance at any cost. We can always >work out the kinks in the system later, but we must save the architecture >first. The architecture of most of the United States stems, in large part, >from the architecture practiced in Philadelphia and New York. everyone from >Louis Sullivan to Daniel Burnham has passed through Philadelphia's ranks of >inovative and bold design. Yes even the Chicago School went to kindergarden >here first. Lets spend a little more time and boast the many triumphs in >preservation. We must become stewards of what came before us. >Gene Paoli >stationman_@_prodigy.net > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Alexander D. Mitchell IV >To: Jim Wrinn ; Mike Tisdale ; >; ObsCarRRing ; >Hume Kading ; Albert Alecknavage ; >Amos Hale Adams >Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:20 PM >Subject: (rshsdepot) Philadelphia Inquirer 02-24-2002 Saving treasures that >benefit few > > >> The Philadelphia Inquirer today published what could be considered a >> scathing attack upon tax incentives for historic preservation and/or >> easement protection of private properties. Of course the primary >> examples portrayed are ritzy apartment buildings and country clubs. But >> all other examples aside, such tax breaks have been critical to the >> preservation of many historic structures--such as railroad stations as >> restaurants. This article warrants review and philosophical debate by >> all who not only pay taxes but engage in preservation of historic >> structures. >> >> The article is at: >> >> http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/2736126.htm >> >> Your commentary, hurrahs, critiques, etc. invited--both to me or this >> forum and to the newspaper. >> >> Alexander D. Mitchell IV > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002d01c1be73$6b213760$5915fe3f_@_Computer> References: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:12:26 -0500 From: "Bernard Rudberg" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List To Andy and Seth, I think the name you are thinking of is the Tuckerton Railroad which was north of Atlantic City. Bernie Rudberg Wappingers Falls NY USA ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002d01c1be75$c523e6c0$fe805043_@_JimDent> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:29:16 -0500 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Fw: Cold Springs Tower - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:34 PM Subject: Cold Springs Tower > < > Tuckahoe, NJ PRSL not formally preserved yet but targeted > > I believe Tuckahoe's letters were KG. > > Cape May Seashore Lines will eventually extend their stretch of active > line up as far as Tuckahoe, but in the meantime, there is a tower and > restored station at Cold Springs (an historic village). I don't believe > the tower is original to the location, though. FK was the closest tower > that I could find on my maps and block diagrams; it was at the north edge > of Cape May city, and dates back to WJ&SL. It may be possible that FK was > moved north the few miles to this location. A call to CMSL may yield a > more certain answer. > >> > > The tower at Cold Springs is the old Woodbine Tower that was moved to Cold > Springs and restored.--David ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00b401c1be7b$cf645b00$2f48f6d1_@_paul> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:12:14 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Grand Union Station, The Bronx NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the index or matching subject link. http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo GrandUnionSta.jpg (image/jpeg, 309800 bytes) New York Times November 2, 1902. Here we have a new Grand Union Station proposed in 1902 for the Bronx between 138th Street, 3rd Avenue, the Harlem River and Park Ave (extended into the Bronx). To connect the new planned east side subway, the Union Railway streetcars in the Bronx, the Metropolitan Railway Madison Ave. line, 2nd and 3rd Street Els, the New Haven and Port Chester Railroads, the Harlem River terminal, and the NY Central. It also proposed that linking the Harlem River Station would give a loop line to the New Haven, to relieve congestion on the Park Ave tunnel in Manhattan. . It also says it is a short distance from the ferry to Queens and the projected (Hell's Gate) bridge, "as well as Port Morris" It equates this area to the Bronx as City hall is to Manhattan, where all lines converge. Maybe the closest that came to this was when the Westchester and Boston came down near here later in the decade. I have included both the map and the article ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C7B0DA9.7050804_@_bellsouth.net> References: <002d01c1be73$6b213760$5915fe3f@Computer> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:23:05 -0500 From: Seth Bramson Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved RR Towers List Right! Thank you, Bernie. Sorry for the geo lapse. The Tuck has always fascinated me, and I have no small number of TT's, photos, negs, and the like. What a unique operation that was. Bernard Rudberg wrote: >To Andy and Seth, >I think the name you are thinking of is the Tuckerton Railroad which was >north of Atlantic City. > >Bernie Rudberg Wappingers Falls NY USA > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20020226.014558.-511669.0.ptrmgtsvc_@_juno.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:16:02 -0500 From: "M. E Allen" Subject: Tuckerton RR was Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved Towers The Tuckerton ran from a connection with the PRR's Camden - Bay Head [via Toms River] line and the CNJ Southern Division at Whitings to Long Beach Island. On LBI it connected with an isolated PRR line which ran the length of the island. At least one station, Barnegat Light, still exists as a private residence. Mike Allen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #298 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:07:45 -0500 From: "Michael Bosak" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Philadelphia Inquirer 02-24-2002 Saving treasures that benefit Amen to that! It's not only individual buildings, but districts as well - buildings bound together by their context. These are the heart and soul of cities, towns and neighborhoods. You can't know where you are going if you don't know where you have been. Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Paoli Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:50 PM To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Philadelphia Inquirer 02-24-2002 Saving treasure s that benefit few Let me get right to the point. There are always cases of abuse. There are always cases of different points of view. Saving any architectural treasu re in or near a city that has now become just something you view on your way north or south on I-95 is of paramont importance at any cost. We can alwa ys work out the kinks in the system later, but we must save the architecture first. The architecture of most of the United States stems, in large part , from the architecture practiced in Philadelphia and New York. everyone fr om Louis Sullivan to Daniel Burnham has passed through Philadelphia's ranks of inovative and bold design. Yes even the Chicago School went to kindergard en here first. Lets spend a little more time and boast the many triumphs in preservation. We must become stewards of what came before us. Gene Paoli stationman_@_prodigy.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexander D. Mitchell IV To: Jim Wrinn ; Mike Tisdale ; ; ObsCarRRing ; Hume Kading ; Albert Alecknavage ; Amos Hale Adams Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:20 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Philadelphia Inquirer 02-24-2002 Saving treasures th at benefit few > The Philadelphia Inquirer today published what could be considered a > scathing attack upon tax incentives for historic preservation and/or > easement protection of private properties. Of course the primary > examples portrayed are ritzy apartment buildings and country clubs. Bu t > all other examples aside, such tax breaks have been critical to the > preservation of many historic structures--such as railroad stations as > restaurants. This article warrants review and philosophical debate by > all who not only pay taxes but engage in preservation of historic > structures. > > The article is at: > > http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/2736126.htm > > Your commentary, hurrahs, critiques, etc. invited--both to me or this > forum and to the newspaper. > > Alexander D. Mitchell IVGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer downl oad : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <145.a213e90.29ace890_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:33:04 EST From: Dherbert53_@_aol.com Subject: Re: Tuckerton RR was Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved Towers A turntable pit survives in the woods in Whiting. D Dean Carroll ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001501c1bed4$4eee7880$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> References: <20020226.014558.-511669.0.ptrmgtsvc_@_juno.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:46:00 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Re: Tuckerton RR Mike, Another station still exists on LBI besides Barnegat Light. I believe it's Brant Beach. I have not been able to positively identify/find the Barnegat Light station, although I have heard it still exists. Do you have an idea where it is exactly? Jim Dent - ----- Original Message ----- From: "M. E Allen" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:16 AM Subject: Tuckerton RR was Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved Towers > The Tuckerton ran from a connection with the PRR's Camden - Bay Head [via > Toms River] line and the CNJ Southern Division at Whitings to Long Beach > Island. On LBI it connected with an isolated PRR line which ran the > length of the island. At least one station, Barnegat Light, still exists > as a private residence. > > Mike Allen > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <10f.cd575d2.29ad013b_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:18:18 EST From: Mrhorn55_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Re: Tuckerton RR For all There is a good book "The Tuckerton Railroad - A Chronicle of Transport to the New Jersey Seashore" written by John Brinckmann, copyright 1992, 221 pages about this railroad. I believe it is currently in print. Go to www. bookfinder.com or www.abebooks.com and you should be able to find a seller. These sites are also a good place to verify the price of books that are being sold on ebay. A good ebay deal or am I being taken to the cleaners. Dick Horn This message is being set from a aol site per the proceedure I have written and Rick has posted in the archieves. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3C7BBD53.3070308_@_bellsouth.net> References: <20020226.014558.-511669.0.ptrmgtsvc_@_juno.com> <001501c1bed4$4eee7880$df8d6ca5@itochu.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:52:35 -0500 From: Seth Bramson Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Re: Tuckerton RR Friends: In my years of collecting Tuckerton RR material, I have a good bit and happy to share, although likely will have to be xeroxes, as I sent a postcard for scanning to the list of either this list or the Interurbans list and never got it back. (No good deed goes unpunished.) Jim Dent wrote: >Mike, > >Another station still exists on LBI besides Barnegat Light. I believe it's >Brant Beach. > >I have not been able to positively identify/find the Barnegat Light station, >although I have heard it still exists. Do you have an idea where it is >exactly? > >Jim Dent > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "M. E Allen" >To: >Cc: >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:16 AM >Subject: Tuckerton RR was Re: (rshsdepot) Preserved Towers > > >>The Tuckerton ran from a connection with the PRR's Camden - Bay Head [via >> Toms River] line and the CNJ Southern Division at Whitings to Long Beach >>Island. On LBI it connected with an isolated PRR line which ran the >>length of the island. At least one station, Barnegat Light, still exists >>as a private residence. >> >>Mike Allen >> >>________________________________________________________________ >>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >>Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. >> > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40538735.1014724146_@_sodor.cc.columbia.edu> References: <00b401c1be7b$cf645b00$2f48f6d1_@_paul> In-Reply-To: <00b401c1be7b$cf645b00$2f48f6d1_@_paul> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:49:08 -0500 From: Joseph Brennan Subject: (rshsdepot) Re: Grand Union Station, The Bronx I haven't seen this one before. 1902 is the year before the railroads decided to rebuild Grand Central, which was really straining under the load. This looks like someone's idea of how to cope with more growth. Not much later, a commuter railroad terminal was proposed at 149 St. There are still one or two tile signs in the 149 St-Grand Concourse subway station pointing to "New York Central RR" at the east end of the station. Someone thought it would really happen. Possibly it was rejected as plans for Grand Central Terminal moved along. Joe Brennan - --On Monday, February 25, 2002 23:12 -0500 "Paul S. Luchter" wrote: > New York Times November 2, 1902. > Here we have a new Grand Union Station proposed in 1902 for the Bronx > between 138th Street, 3rd Avenue, the Harlem River and Park Ave (extended > into the Bronx). To connect the new planned east side subway, the Union > Railway streetcars in the Bronx, the Metropolitan Railway Madison Ave. line, > 2nd and 3rd Street Els, the New Haven and Port Chester Railroads, the Harlem > River terminal, and the NY Central. It also proposed that linking the Harlem > River Station would give a loop line to the New Haven, to relieve congestion > on the Park Ave tunnel in Manhattan. . It also says it is a short distance > from the ferry to Queens and the projected (Hell's Gate) bridge, "as well as > Port Morris" It equates this area to the Bronx as City hall is to Manhattan, > where all lines converge. > Maybe the closest that came to this was when the Westchester and Boston came > down near here later in the decade. > > I have included both the map and the article ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001001c1beba$7b58dba0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:41:07 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Rensselaer, NY Photo links: http://www.cdta.org/NewRailStation.html Station to go on track this year; Rensselaer Facility, slated to open in June, may create commerce battle with Albany Copyright 2002 The Hearst Corporation The Times Union (Albany, NY)...02/24/2002 Bob Gardinier; Staff Writer One of the region's most costly and visible transportation projects, the red-brick, copper-domed train station off Broadway, is due to open in June and should flourish despite money woes for Amtrak, the national passenger railroad. Luckily for the station's builders, the Capital District Transportation Authority, Rensselaer is not just a whistle-stop but a hub for passengers switching trains going north and west, heading south into New York City or traveling east to Boston. Business leaders and elected officials say that fact will keep the station an essential part of the rail transportation network. The "Albany" stop has been located across the Hudson River in Rensselaer since the classic Union Station building on Broadway in Albany closed in 1981. "It is Amtrak's ninth or 10th busiest station in the country," said David Stackrow, CDTA board chairman. "Amtrak may be looking to cut its long-distance runs, but as long as ridership remains good, it will not affect this station." Even 10th-place is not bad, considering Amtrak carries about 61,000 riders a day to 500 stations in 45 states. And that number has been rising steadily. But 2002 did not start out promising for fans of train travel. Amtrak President George Warrington said in early February that the company needs its operating subsidy doubled, from $ 521 million a year to $ 1.2 billion, and may have to cut jobs and routes even if it gets the money. Local officials, who have pumped almost $ 60 million into the new station, blanched at the comments. But a collective sigh of relief went up when Warrington added that if money woes become worse, Amtrak "could only afford to operate its most popular and economical routes, like the Boston-Albany-Washington corridor." Some believe the station will become an economic engine for the region, much as Albany International Airport came to symbolize local vitality after a $ 180 million makeover completed in 1998. "It will be great for business travelers, and it will build up that very accessible area into an attraction," said Linda Hillman, president of the Rensselaer County Regional Chamber of Commerce. "It will be unprecedented for the city of Rensselaer and will help the small mom-and-pop stores, as well as the large retailers and the service industries." Hillman said the station, situated by architects to capitalize on the views of the Albany skyline (its clock tower also will stand in prominent view from nearby highways), will aid both cities, bringing enough tourist, hotel and convention income to go around. However, the cross-river tug-of-war over hotel and convention bucks has begun. Mike Stammel, a county legislator who represents Rensselaer, has joined with Hillman and several others in resuscitating the idea of building a convention center and hotel complex next to the train station. Stammel also is pushing for a state Empire Zone for the city, a development incentive that targets economically troubled areas with low-interest loans and reduced utility rates. "The city of Rensselaer is virgin property when it comes to a project that has potential like this," he said. "There is tons of low-cost property available in the city, and it would be more cost-effective than siting a center in a costly area like downtown Albany." Albany Mayor Jerry Jennings has a blue-ribbon panel in place working to land a convention center for his downtown. Stackrow, the CDTA board chairman, said the agency may be able to help Stammel's plans with some adjacent land but that will have to wait until after the station is open for a while. "We have some property that we will be using in our surface parking plans, and if we find we don't need as much of that acreage, we could make it available for development," Stackrow said. But much is yet to be done on the project before the first passenger boards a train there. (The old station is still in use and will be razed in part when the new station debuts.) Track and signals are being moved slightly to the east to accommodate the new station, and work on an elevated walkway across the tracks for passengers has just began. Inside the station, retail and office space still needs to be leased. The project has taken a slow track since its groundbreaking in June 1999, when officials promised that a station triple the size of the existing facility would open by the end of 2001 at a cost of $ 43 million. The facility now is slated to open in June, and the price tag is closer to $ 60 million. Construction overruns pushed up the station's costs, and CDTA had to come up with $ 9 million to get the elevated walkway done. "We are not really pushing the office space leasing yet because that will take its course after the station is open and people get to see the space and decide they may want to locate there," Stackrow said. A chain restaurant is interested in some space, but officials declined to say which one. Those worried about the cost of the facility are buoyed by one of the changes to travel that came in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks: Train use is climbing. Amtrak ridership was up about 15 percent nationwide between Sept. 11 and Sept. 23, and a spike in long-distance ticket sales pushed revenue up nearly 40 percent, Amtrak spokeswoman Karen Dunn said. Inconveniences associated with new security procedures for air travelers were credited with the higher train numbers. But the 600,000-plus passengers passing though the Rensselaer station each year, along with passengers nationwide, also have to show photo identification when purchasing tickets and checking baggage. Riders can expect to see more Amtrak police on trains and in stations too, Dunn said. FACTS:MAKING TRACKS RENSSELAER RAIL STATION COMPLEX Size: 67,000 square feet in three stories, with main passenger area on third floor; fourth-level mezzanine area rimmed with business office spaceMain tenant: Amtrak will be in expansive passenger waiting area on third floor; will have administrative offices, baggage handling and other offices in buildingOther expected occupants: U.S. Postal Service, along with bulk-mail handling area; food services, including major restaurant; newsstand and gift shops; ATM services; telecommuting facilities for traveling business people; space for business meetings; office rentals around mezzanine; hotel and automobile rental ground-reservation services. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <200202261338_MC3-F3A2-A243_@_compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:38:12 -0500 From: "TIMOTHY O. STUY" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Re: Tuckerton RR I have a fair number of Turkerton RR tickets, unused that I would be willing to sell or trade. Tim Stuy ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <413CACCE0349D3118C300004AC38683402E08094_@_msg1.utoledo.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:08:28 -0500 From: MCamp_@_utnet.utoledo.edu Subject: (rshsdepot) Railroad Station Historical Society Website Update Just recently a list of North Carolina extant railroad structures has been added. The list is based heavily on A Directory of North Carolina Railroad Structures assembled by Peterson, Reevy, and Dowdy plus archival notes. Also the Georgia list has quite a few additions courtesy of Keith Berkebile. New links are always being added and the lists are updated whenever data are received. The RSHS website is at http://www.rrshs.org. Mark J. Camp ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00d401c1bf55$10a10d00$c552f6d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:07:36 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Grand Central Depot 1872 Here is a print of Grand Central Depot 1872. I never saw this print before, it takes liberties showing no buildings south of the station, doesn't it? http://www.georgeglazer.com/maps/newyorkmaps/grandcentral1872.html Paul The extant railroad structures database is on the RSHS Website: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #299 ******************************* From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005701c1bf9c$f315cc60$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:42:15 -0500 From: "Jim Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Historic USGS Maps USGS topographic maps are a great resource in locating railroad tracks, depots, and other railroad structures. Current USGS topographic maps have been available online at Topozone (http://www.topozone.com/) and at Maptech (http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepage/index.cfm). Now the University of New Hampshire's Diamond Library is putting online historic, older USGS maps. Right now all of New England, New York and selected quadrangles from NJ, PA, DE and MD are online. Many of the map quadrangles include a choice of the map year, some going back to the 1890's. The online collection was started by a railfan, Christopher Marshall of Amherst, NH, to aid in his search for abandoned rail lines of New Hampshire. The site is at: http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/nhtopos.htm . The extant railroad structures database is on the RSHS Website: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20020227165518.83477.qmail_@_web11803.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <005701c1bf9c$f315cc60$df8d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:55:18 -0800 (PST) From: Art Marsh Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Historic USGS Maps Jim, You may wish to add Terraserver. Terraserver is the joint venture between Microsoft and the USGS. Terraserver also adds Arial photos at varying resolutions that have been linked to the USGS maps. The highest resolution for the photos is 1 meter. You can see all objects longer than 39". Not bad for free. Totally free downloadable website that also has links on how and where to purchase maps and images. http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/ Art - --- Jim Dent wrote: > USGS topographic maps are a great resource in > locating railroad tracks, > depots, and other railroad structures. Current USGS > topographic maps have > been available online at Topozone > (http://www.topozone.com/) and at Maptech > (http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepage/index.cfm). > > Now the University of New Hampshire's Diamond > Library is putting online > historic, older USGS maps. Right now all of New > England, New York and > selected quadrangles from NJ, PA, DE and MD are > online. Many of the map > quadrangles include a choice of the map year, some > going back to the 1890's. > > The online collection was started by a railfan, > Christopher Marshall of > Amherst, NH, to aid in his search for abandoned rail > lines of New Hampshire. > > The site is at: > http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/nhtopos.htm > > > . > > The extant railroad structures database is on the > RSHS Website: http://www.rrshs.org > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com The extant railroad structures database is on the RSHS Website: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <013e01c1bfc6$f14a6920$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:42:50 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Statesville, NC Link: http://media.gatewaync.com/srl/photos/depot2.jpg (current photo) http://www.downtownstatesvillenc.org/dtour01.htm (depot pictorial tour) Passenger rail service in Statesville doubtful after City Council decision City leaders opted not to participate in federal grant to renovate the Depot By MICHELLE HARRISON RECORD & LANDMARK Statesville City Council has decided not to fund renovations to the Depot, and a local stop along the western N.C. passenger rail link looks doubtful. Downtown Statesville Development Corp., which owns the Depot on Shelton Avenue, wanted to apply for a $680,000 federal grant to build passenger platforms and make track improvements. A condition of the grant is that the City of Statesville provide 10 percent, or $68,000. But last week, council members denied the request along with $2,200 a month for maintenance, custodial, and security work at would be the rail link's only stop not owned by the resident city. Now, DSDC manager Bryan George is not sure how long the grant money will be available. He says he is disappointed but hopeful that council members might revisit the issue. Councilman Jim Lawton said the rail connecting Asheville to Salisbury will come through Statesville anyway, and the Depot stop could always be added later. "I don't think that we made an irreparable decision," Lawton said. However, George said leaving the issue for later could cost the city more in the future. Most people don't realize the link the rail could create for the city, George said. A passenger stop in Statesville could allow travel all along the eastern seaboard through the hub in Salisbury. The railway had also been seen as a means to alleviate traffic on Interstate 40. But Lawton said the cost did not justify the projected reduction in traffic. George said he's still optimistic because City Council recently voted to help finance improvements at the municipal airport after initially denying the funding. The extant railroad structures database is on the RSHS Website: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <014401c1bfc8$4e2e34e0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:52:35 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Winston-Salem, NC Transit officials talk up rail Union Station could be renovated By Michael Biesecker WINSTON-SALEM JOURNAL REPORTER Winston-Salem's once grand Union Station closed in 1970 but could someday see new life as the downtown hub for a commuter rail line linking the city to Greensboro. "It's not just a bunch of rail buffs and bureaucrats that think this is a good idea," said David King, the N.C. Department of Transportation's deputy secretary for transit. "Business leaders are getting on board because commuter rail is an engine for economic development." King spoke at Winston-Salem State University yesterday to help update community leaders on plans to bring local passenger rail service to the Triad. A draft study not yet released to the public says that it will cost about $120 million to make the 25 miles of rail corridor between Winston-Salem and Greensboro suitable for commuter service. "We're talking about money when money is very tight," King said. "But this is a very long-term project. We're not talking months or years, but decades." Much of the money would be spent to rehabilitate the existing track and lay an additional line next to it to allow for two-way traffic. Many of the 66 road crossings along the way would also have to be closed to allow the trains to travel fast enough to transport passengers between the two cities in less than 30 minutes. An additional $82 million would have to be spent to extend service for the 12 miles from Winston-Salem to Clemmons and $234 million for the 21 miles from Greensboro to Burlington. Once the system is built, operating costs would be about $35 million a year. Brent McKinney, the director of the Piedmont Authority for Regional Transportation, told officials yesterday not to be scared by the big numbers. The state would ask for federal money for much of the project, and the estimates for a rail system for the Triangle are even higher. "This is doable," McKinney said about the proposed Triad rail system. "The numbers are there." The plans include a proposal to rehabilitate the brick and limestone Union Station, which sits beside the seldom-used track that runs east out of the city. The old station, off Martin Luther King Jr. Drive, has been home to Davis Garage, an auto-repair and towing business, since 1975. DOT appraised the current value of the building and its land at $275,000. According to a feasibility study released yesterday, it would cost about $9.7 million to buy the station and completely renovate it for commuter service. As the mayors, state legislators and transportation officials at yesterday's meeting watched a multimedia presentation on the possible renovation of the old building, owner Harvey Davis sat quietly off to the side with his arms crossed. Though Davis gave the men from Raleigh access to his property to conduct the study, he said he hasn't heard an offer yet that would motivate him to sell. "We haven't talked any brass tacks," he said after the meeting. Even if Davis would sell, returning the building to its former glory would be a monumental undertaking. Built in 1926 by a partnership of three railroad companies, the station has three floors, each with about 12,000 square feet. For 44 years it was used as the main point of departure for passenger trains in Forsyth County, before closing in 1970. The railroads boarded up the building and scheduled it for demolition. A few years later, Davis was looking for a place to move his garage business, which had been started by his father in 1939 and had outgrown its old home on Northwest Boulevard. While driving by Union Station one day, he saw that the plywood covering a door had been ripped off, and he went inside. Though the vacant building had been badly vandalized, Davis said he was reminded what the station had looked like in its prime. As a young boy in the 1940s, he traveled with his family by train from Winston-Salem to Baltimore. He bought the station from the railroads in 1974 for what he called "a fair price, considering the condition," and moved his business there the next year. A tour of the station's third floor today offers ample evidence of its past grandeur, from the disintegrating plaster ceilings to the oil-stained marble walls and the intricate woodwork covered by thick layers of cracking paint. Hand-lettered signs still tell the way to the ticket window and to the ladies room. When Davis converted the station into a garage, he removed the news and cigar stand that once separated the racially segregated waiting rooms. An aging Winnebago is now parked on the "white" side, and a dusty car rests on a hydraulic lift bolted into the vintage tile floor of what was called the "colored" side. The building's third-floor entrance is at the street level of Martin Luther King Jr. Drive and the bottom floor is at track level. Davis said he could never figure out how to build a ramp to drive automobiles onto the second floor, which once housed offices for the Southern Railway and Western Union. The old rooms there have been left largely vacant since the station closed. The ground floor, which was once used for sorting railway freight and baggage, was converted to a body shop. A luggage wagon with large steel wheels is parked in a corner, near a couple of old wooden telephone booths that were removed from upstairs. Most of the window panes on the lower floors are broken out, and Davis said he stopped bothering to replace the glass years ago because it would just be broken again. He has a quick answer for anyone who would criticize the station's condition. "If it weren't for me, the railroads would have taken a wrecking ball to it," he said before adding that he would like the building to be restored someday, but doesn't expect an attractive offer from the state any time soon. "I imagine my son or grandchildren will have to deal with it," he said. The extant railroad structures database is on the RSHS Website: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002501c1bfd6$a80e4aa0$15fe2444_@_union01.nj.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:35:19 -0500 From: Bernie Wagenblast Subject: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased Photo links: http://www.railwayresearch.com/WaterGapViaduct2.html (view atop bridge November 2001) http://www.njskylands.com/Images/svViaduct.gif (contemporary ground view) http://gelwood.railfan.net/bldg/dlw-oldline.jpg (early 20th Century view) Bridge buy seen as step in rail line from Pa. to Hoboken 02/27/02 By F. DAVID HOFF The Express-Times The picturesque multiple-arch railroad bridge over the Delaware River between Knowlton Township and Upper Mount Bethel Township has become a $4 million Pennsylvania contribution to restoration of the Lackawanna Cutoff. The towering concrete bridge, completed about 1910, was purchased by a Kearny businessman after the rail line was abandoned in the 1970s. It was acquired by the New Jersey Department of Transportation when the state negotiated a $21 million buy-back of the 28-mile cutoff right of way but was not included in those condemnation proceedings. Now, the New Jersey commissioner of transportation has sold the bridge and 1.77-miles of the former Erie Lackawanna Main Line to the Monroe County Rail Authority for $4 million in a deed recorded in the office of Warren County Clerk Terrance D. Lee. Bob Hay, chairman of the county rail authority, said Monroe County's purchase of the bridge had been agreed on for several years. He said the $4 million came from the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. Reviving passenger train service on the former rail line across Warren, Sussex and Morris counties would offer a mass transit alternative to congested highway travel between northeastern Pennsylvania and metropolitan New Jersey. It would complete a rail link between Scranton, Pa., and Hoboken, N.J., where there is access to New York. Asked if the bridge transaction brings the rail project any closer to realization, Hay answered, "Yes. Anytime the state invests $4 million in a project, you know it has priority. We'll keep working for state and federal funding. We're probably looking at 2006 (for reopening rail service on the cutoff), depending on funding," he added. The extant railroad structures database is on the RSHS Website: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006a01c1c00d$d8d30360$2fb5f4d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:10:17 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased Is this a pipe dream? Binghamton to Hoboken never came about and there is still rail on that route (I think!). How much eminent domain use of the abandoned right of way might thee also be? Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Wagenblast To: RSHS Depot Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:38 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased Photo links: http://www.railwayresearch.com/WaterGapViaduct2.html (view atop bridge November 2001) http://www.njskylands.com/Images/svViaduct.gif (contemporary ground view) http://gelwood.railfan.net/bldg/dlw-oldline.jpg (early 20th Century view) Bridge buy seen as step in rail line from Pa. to Hoboken 02/27/02 By F. DAVID HOFF The Express-Times The picturesque multiple-arch railroad bridge over the Delaware River between Knowlton Township and Upper Mount Bethel Township has become a $4 million Pennsylvania contribution to restoration of the Lackawanna Cutoff. The towering concrete bridge, completed about 1910, was purchased by a Kearny businessman after the rail line was abandoned in the 1970s. It was acquired by the New Jersey Department of Transportation when the state negotiated a $21 million buy-back of the 28-mile cutoff right of way but was not included in those condemnation proceedings. Now, the New Jersey commissioner of transportation has sold the bridge and 1.77-miles of the former Erie Lackawanna Main Line to the Monroe County Rail Authority for $4 million in a deed recorded in the office of Warren County Clerk Terrance D. Lee. Bob Hay, chairman of the county rail authority, said Monroe County's purchase of the bridge had been agreed on for several years. He said the $4 million came from the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. Reviving passenger train service on the former rail line across Warren, Sussex and Morris counties would offer a mass transit alternative to congested highway travel between northeastern Pennsylvania and metropolitan New Jersey. It would complete a rail link between Scranton, Pa., and Hoboken, N.J., where there is access to New York. Asked if the bridge transaction brings the rail project any closer to realization, Hay answered, "Yes. Anytime the state invests $4 million in a project, you know it has priority. We'll keep working for state and federal funding. We're probably looking at 2006 (for reopening rail service on the cutoff), depending on funding," he added. The extant railroad structures database is on the RSHS Website: http://www.rrshs.org ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001a01c1c010$0b226de0$fe805043_@_JimDent> References: <006a01c1c00d$d8d30360$2fb5f4d1_@_paul> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:26:07 -0500 From: Jim Dent Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased Paul, Rails are still in between Hoboken and Binghamton. Hoboken to Port Jervis is commuter territory, west of Port Jervis to Binghamton still gets 1-2 trains a day. There has never been serious discussion, or money spent, on restoring passenger service west of Port Jervis. Now back to the Cut-off. Trains ply the DL&W on the Pennsylvania side not daily, but regularly. Is it a pipe-dream? Who would have thought the NYS&W would reopen west of Butler, NJ? But it did. Re-opening the Cut-off is still a long way off - but I think it will happen. Jim Dent - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul S. Luchter" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:10 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased > Is this a pipe dream? Binghamton to Hoboken never came about and there is > still rail on that route (I think!). > > How much eminent domain use of the abandoned right of way might thee also > be? > > Paul ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008501c1c021$99b03400$2fb5f4d1_@_paul> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:31:42 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased I do remember talk of Amtrak service from Binghamton from mid 1970s for many years. I think I do remember this. - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dent To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:30 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased Paul, Rails are still in between Hoboken and Binghamton. Hoboken to Port Jervis is commuter territory, west of Port Jervis to Binghamton still gets 1-2 trains a day. There has never been serious discussion, or money spent, on restoring passenger service west of Port Jervis. Now back to the Cut-off. Trains ply the DL&W on the Pennsylvania side not daily, but regularly. Is it a pipe-dream? Who would have thought the NYS&W would reopen west of Butler, NJ? But it did. Re-opening the Cut-off is still a long way off - but I think it will happen. Jim Dent - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul S. Luchter" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:10 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Lackawanna Cutoff Delaware River Bridge Purchased > Is this a pipe dream? Binghamton to Hoboken never came about and there is > still rail on that route (I think!). > > How much eminent domain use of the abandoned right of way might thee also > be? > > Paul ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ================================= The Railroad Station Historical Society maintains a database of existing railroad structures at: http://www.rrshs.org ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #300 *******************************