From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005201c0ba5f$0e08efa0$0b55c0d8_@_paul> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 22:50:47 -0500 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) LIRR Depot @ South ferry . . . NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the thumbnail image(s) for the listed filename(s). http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/listthumb.cgi?/lists/rshsdepot-photo/rshsdepot-03-31-01 LIRRXDepotX_@_XS.Ferry.jpg (image/jpeg, 433141 bytes) charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...Proposed LIRR depot.....Here we see a map and part of the article = about proposal to land fill to Governor's Island and beyond creating a 4 = mile Long Manhattan Peninsula. A fifteen track bridge over the North = River, a second to carry the LIRR from Atlantic Avenue foot to the new = 10 acre peninsula and then north to a new elevated "Grand Union Station" = at South ferry...[sorry I cut off the whole article]... NY Times article from October 1, 1893 "Engineer Ruge's Big Scheme"...I = am not sure if this was the first proposed Long Island Rail Road New = York City terminal (Manhattan terminal), but it is early.. The map is really nice, the track marks left by someone once in the = decades messing up the microfilm... Paul ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #34 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3AC7FB63.78B06255_@_erols.com> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 00:09:07 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Deansboro (NY) Depot Restoration owrhs_@_nyow.org wrote: > > WUTR TV NEWS 3/26/01 5:30 EDITION > > DEANSBORO TRAIN STATION > The Past And Present Are About To Meet Up In A New Way In Southern Oneida > County. Thanks To A County Grant A Historic Site Will Be Getting A Facelift. > You Could Be Spending Your Summer Days Rollerblading Or Strolling Along A > Historic Pathway In Deansboro. > A Local Preservationists Group Has Purchased The Old O and W Railroad > Station Just Off Route 315. The Brothertown Association Is Using A > 18-Thousand Dollar Grant To Renovate The Station Back To Its Original > Condition. Brothertown Indians First Settled On This Land. And Now The > Brothertown Association Wants To Make Everyone Aware Of The Area's Rich > History. Right Now The Old Rail Tracks Are Covered With Trees But That's All > Going To Be Cleared Away To Make Way For A Recreation Trail And More. That > Railway Was Very Busy With Trains Carrying Goods Through Utica Towards New > York City. > This Renovation Is Part Of A Larger Goal.The Brothertown Association Hopes > The Tracks Can Be Restored All The Way To Utica Paving The Way For Miles And > Miles Of Hiking Space For People To Enjoy. > The Brothertown Association Formed A Year Ago And Is Looking For New Members > To Carry Out Their Mission. If You're Interested You Can Call 821-4699. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3AC7FD81.D9952787_@_erols.com> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 00:18:09 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Photo: Baird,T A photo by Gary Morris of ATSF #567 passing ex-T&P station at Baird,Tx - Oct 94 -From The Railfan.net Usenet ABPR Picture Archives. http://www.railfan.net/railpix/ABPR/january01/01-08-01/aTSF567atBairdTx_Oct94.jpg ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #35 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004501c0bbf8$432ed4c0$024bc0d8_@_paul> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 00:40:45 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Hoboken to Coney Island . . . Go to this page for pictures of old railroad tickets including DL&W = steamship from Hoboken to Iron Pier Coney Island http://home.att.net/~mforder05/mark260.JPG ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #36 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <014c01c0bc51$c7a7a700$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:21:38 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) CP Heritage Fund grants -From the Trains.com News Wire... Nine rail-related projects benefit from CP Heritage Fund grants The Canadian Pacific Heritage Fund on March 30 awarded more than $1 million to 20 community-based history projects across Canada, including nine railroad-related projects. The CP Heritage Fund, which is administered by the CP Charitable Foundation, was created in 1999, and last year funded 21 projects worth more than $900,000. Rail-related projects receiving funding are: The City of North Bay, Ontario, $100,000, to restore the CP train station, which will be developed as a railway activity museum to commemorate the role of the railway in the area. The George Stephen House Trust Fund in Montreal, $100,000, to renovate the George Stephen House. The heritage house, completed in 1883, and former home of the co-founder and first president of Canadian Pacific, is being preserved. The Calgary Downtown Association in Alberta, $63,000, to create a railway underpass with images of the history of the Canadian Pacific Railway. The grant will be used to develop a pedestrian-friendly underpass and an attractive gateway into the downtown core. The Lake of the Woods Railroad Museum in Keewatin, Ontario, $49,450 for the development of a railroad museum. The Historical Society of Alberta - Central Alberta Chapter in Red Deer, $32,000, for the Michener Fountain Restoration. The grant will be used to restore the 1907 fountain in the new Railway Garden Park. The S.S. Sicamous Restoration Project in Penticton, British Columbia, $23,667 to complete the final phase of the restoration of the S.S. Sicamous, an old CP sternwheeler. The grant will be used to restore the interior of the pilot house and the smokestack. The Lethbridge Public Library in Alberta, $7,000, for their Bringing History Alive project, a model train exhibit that will depict the history of the Canadian Pacific within the context of Southern Alberta. The Museum of the Highwood in High River, Alberta, $1,431, for their Moving the Caboose project. The grant will be used to relocate their ex-CP caboose closer to the museum in order to interpret local history. The Clayton McLain Memorial Museum in Cut Knife, Saskatchewan, $500, to restore the platform of the CP station. The station serves as a local history museum and the platform is used as a stage for theatrical and other performances in the community. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #37 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3ACBE588.FB931EEF_@_erols.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:24:56 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Ashland, WI -From the Ashland, WI Daily Press... Depot employees mark anniversary of fire Some have moved on, others wait for new business Rick Olivo The Daily Press A year after the blaze that gutted the historic Soo Line Depot in Ashland, The roofless walls still jut skyward, blackened debris still fills the collapsed interior, forlorn reminders of what was once one of the most popular dining and drinking establishments in the region. Meanwhile, area business and government officials are still trying to put pieces of the financial puzzle together that will lead to rebuilding of the landmark structure. While the loss of the Railyard Pub and the Depot Lounge and restaurant has been a blow to the faithful customers who flocked there for meals and craft-brewed beer, the brownstone and wood, glass and concrete that make up the Depot were not the only casualties of the April Fool's Day fire. Over 50 Depot employees abruptly found themselves themselves without jobs following the conflagration, wondering if they would ever again work at the place most thought of as far more than a job, a way of earning a paycheck. In the year that has passed, some former Depot workers have found other employment, and have gone on with their lives in new directions. Others have hung on as best they could, hoping one day to start working anew for Depot Owners Mark And Val Gutteter and South Shore Brewmaster Eugene "Bo" Belanger. For those who have patiently awaited that day, their hopes will soon reach fruition as the Deep Water Grille continues to take shape on the 800 block of Ashland's Main Street West. An opening sometime this spring is planned for the new facility. Beer is already being brewed at the on-premises South Shore Brewery. For those whose lives have taken a different turn, their Depot memories will always be something special, something to cherish. For those who plan to pick up where they left off, the final days before the Grille opens are perhaps the toughest to wait out. The first anniversary of The Great Depot Fire was observed Sunday by the former Depot employees who gathered at the still-under-Construction Deepwater Grille, to share food, drink, and fellowship with their former co-workers, to recount Depot war stories and to talk about what has happened to them over the course of the last year. Uta Kamantauskas, a Depot waitress for many years, is now teaching science, biology and computer networking at Ashland High School. "I've moved on, actually when the building burned down I had already given my two weeks notice," she said. Nevertheless, despite having planned to leave anyway, she too felt the pain of the loss of the Depot. "I think the best quote was 'Ashland's living room just burned down,'" she said. "It was special to a lot of people." Kamantauskas said part of the Depot's magic was the sense of family the workers enjoyed. "When the old homestead burns down, it kind of hurts, and that's what it felt like," she said. She credited much of the magic felt by Depot workers to the management style of co-owner Mark Gutteter. "Mark has been incredible in the way he's made sure his employees have stuck around and been able to stay here. You don't find that kind of loyalty -From a boss, period. The employees know they have something special. It's something that a whole lot of other employers could learn from." Kamantauskas said the special feeling between owners and employees spilled over to the Depot's customers. "We did enjoy our jobs and we enjoyed them, you got to know people by name, you got to know the regulars very well, you could joke with them and have a good time with them. I think the community recognized that, and that's why they kept coming. I think they're all waiting for it to start over again." Kamantauskas said the efforts made by the owners to keep the staff intact will pay off when the Deep Water Grille opens. "When they open, this place is going to be packed," she said. "The people is what made that place special," agreed former chef Kevin Cousins. "It was a gathering of every different type of person you could imagine. They were all there for the same reason, to have a good time." Cousins, who has found work at the Platter Supper Club is also one former Depot employee who will not be returning, but he said he will treasure his time at the Depot. "I have a videotape that was made of me cooking there, It's something that is very, very valuable to me,' he said. Cousins also predicted that the Deep Water Grille would have much of the same atmosphere that made the Railyard Pub a local institution. "So many of the same people will be here; it's going to be just as fun, if not better," he said. For Jordan Grunoe, an brewing assistant at the South Shore Brewery, when he first heard of the Depot fire, he thought it was a sick April Fool's joke. "It's led to an interesting year, but it's time to get back to work," he said. Grunoe said a fierce loyalty to the Gutteters and the Depot spirit was commonplace among workers, past and present. "It's the best day job I've ever had," he said "There is a lot of respect that flows both ways, from the top down and from the bottom up." Grunoe and others said this was one reason why so many workers were willing to put their lives on hold for a year until a new operation could get underway. "I've just kind of been finding things to do until this got going. Now I'm back and part of building a restaurant, which is absolutely thrilling to me," said Dave Miller, an assistant chef. "Pretty much the whole crew is getting back together again. That's what is going to make it really awesome I just can't wait. Every day, I want to get back to cooking." The one common thread among former Depot employees was perhaps best summed by by waitress Melissa Turvell. "It was the best place to work. You couldn't go to work and not have a good time," she said. Like many others, she has patiently waited for the new operation to start up again. Although it's been a sacrifice, she said it has been worth the effort. "It's a family, I couldn't work any place else," she said. "The people here are too close and dedicated not to feel that way." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3ACBE702.28DAD30A_@_erols.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:31:14 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Riverside, CA -From Inland Empire Online... Downtown Riverside's old Santa Fe Depot might soon be for sale. The Riverside County Transportation Commission spent $120,000 to buy the 73-year-old building from the city of Riverside and to keep it from further decay. But now the agency is preparing to unload the depot, citing high restoration and operating costs. "It's too costly of a building to just have there," said John Standiford, commission spokesman. Transportation officials hope the depot will attract new owners who will restore and convert it into offices or some type of retail business, while at the same time capitalizing on the structure's history. The depot, next to North Park on Mission Inn Avenue, is on the fringe of a retail boom that includes the Coffee Depot, opened in the old Union Pacific train station, and the recently opened Cafe Sevilla. "It's heartening to see something really taking off in that area," Standiford said. The commission has received some informal inquiries from developers interested in the depot, he said. Offices or a restaurant would be good for that area, said Bob Wales, Riverside assistant city manager. "For all too many years, the Santa Fe Depot has sat empty," he said. The commission bought the depot in 1997 from Riverside, which had acquired it from Birtcher Marketplace Partners in exchange for other property nearby. The depot, just east of Highway 91, opened in 1927. The stucco on the Mission-style facade is chipped, and the windows and doors are boarded up. The cobalt-blue tile circle-and-cross Santa Fe logo can be seen from the front and back of the building. The depot served passengers until 1967, according to the commission, and then was used for ticket sales. It functioned as a freight station -From 1971 until it was shuttered in 1983. Transportation officials bought the depot, intending to restore it and use it as crew quarters for the nearby Metrolink station, but that never panned out. Metrolink crews are housed in a trailer near the station. There was talk about turning the depot into a transportation museum. But, as new transportation officials came on board the commission, Standiford said, interest in spending money to restore and maintain the building waned. The decision to sell the depot has cleared a commission committee and is due to go before the full board later this month. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <5f.1348845f.27fd423f_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 23:36:31 EDT From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Stationhouse Gamble Here's a story which may be of interest from Governing magazine. It may be easier to read online. You'll find it at: http://www.governing.com/4train.htm Stationhouse Gamble Restoring an old railroad terminal can be a great way to jumpstart downtown=20 renewal. It can also be a money pit. BY ZACH PATTON Planners in Kansas City, Missouri, are beginning to think that the money the= y=20 invested in fixing up their 87-year-old train station was money well spent.=20 They=E2=80=99re a little nervous, though, and they ought to be. Renovating t= he=20 long-vacant Beaux-Arts landmark, reopened in 1999 as the centerpiece of=20 downtown revival, cost a quarter of a billion dollars. Much of that money=20 came out of taxpayers=E2=80=99 wallets, earmarked by means of a regional sal= es tax=20 increase.The indicators are looking good. More than 1.3 million people showe= d=20 up the first year to visit the building=E2=80=99s interactive science museum= ,=20 planetarium and laser-light show, see a concert or try out the theme=20 restaurants and stores. Two local businesses lease space in the building, an= d=20 the place is rented for conventions, civic celebrations and weddings.But the= =20 promoters of the revival aren=E2=80=99t declaring victory yet. They know too= much=20 about the fragility and riskiness of the whole station renovation idea.=20 =E2=80=9CThese kinds of things are not for the faint-hearted,=E2=80=9D says=20= Kansas City=20 Union Station CEO Turner White, =E2=80=9Cbut they can have tremendous benefi= ts for=20 the cultural quality of life of a city.=E2=80=9DMany planners cite the trium= phs of=20 New York=E2=80=99s Grand Central and Washington, D.C.=E2=80=99s Union Statio= n as an impetus=20 for similar rail renaissance projects across the country. But the era of=20 station renewal has also produced some failures. The rebuilt structures are=20 nearly always jewels of historic preservation, but they can also be white=20 elephants: Once the buildings are entered in the National Register of=20 Historic Places, cities essentially are obligated to maintain them,=20 regardless of cost or commercial viability. The effort can bring a city=20 priceless benefits, but it is also difficult and extremely expensive, and=20= =E2=80=94=20 as more than one official has noted =E2=80=94 it never really ends.Indianapo= lis=20 demonstrates the problem. That city=E2=80=99s rail terminal, opened in 1888,= was=20 America=E2=80=99s first true =E2=80=9Cunion station=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 multi= ple rail lines converging at a=20 central hub. After peaking in the 1920s, rail traffic declined until the=20 station finally closed in 1979, and the city began shopping for a developer.= =20 Seven years and over $50 million in renovations later, Indianapolis=E2=80= =99 Union=20 Station reopened as a festival marketplace with an adjoining hotel.Financed=20 through federal grants, city loans and private funds, the Union Station=20 entertainment complex was regarded as the harbinger of redevelopment on=20 Indianapolis=E2=80=99 neglected south side. In the first year, 14 million vi= sitors=20 flocked to the nightclubs, shops and theme restaurants at the urban mall.=20 Less than a decade later, however, Union Station had again closed its doors:= =20 The crowds had dwindled, and the tenants had all moved out. =E2=80=9CIt was=20= a money=20 pit,=E2=80=9D says Evert Hauser, the city=E2=80=99s project manager for the=20= station.After=20 the second closing in 1997, maintenance of the structure cost Indianapolis=20 $100,000 per month. More than $9 million in repairs were required to replace= =20 what Hauser calls the cosmetic =E2=80=9CBand-Aid fix-ups=E2=80=9D of the fir= st=20 revitalization effort. Problems such as an inadequate gutter system and leak= y=20 skylights had to be dealt with before any further redevelopment could even b= e=20 considered.The experience in Indianapolis mirrored the failure of a similar=20 festival mall project at Cincinnati=E2=80=99s Union Terminal, which lasted l= ess than=20 eight years before closing in 1988. The price tags of these projects =E2=80= =94=20 Cincinnati spent over $20 million in public and private funds =E2=80=94 have= led some=20 city planners around the country to question whether restoration of the=20 structures is worth the cost, the headaches and the energy. A station, says=20 Hauser, =E2=80=9Cis a pretty inflexible space. Even if you fixed it up as mu= ch as you=20 could, it would still be C-grade space. It=E2=80=99s never going to be grade= - -A space.=E2=80=9D Notwithstanding all that, station fix-up projects continue to be popular wit= h=20 many local governments, and it=E2=80=99s not hard to see why. =E2=80=9CTrain= stations have a=20 lot of resonance in terms of collective memory,=E2=80=9D says Hank Dittmar,=20= president=20 of the Great American Station Foundation. =E2=80=9CAs a symbol of revitaliza= tion,=20 there=E2=80=99s really no better. Train stations are typically at the heart=20= of the=20 city, and renovating them is a public way to show a city=E2=80=99s commitmen= t to its=20 downtown. And that demonstration of public faith catalyzes urban=20 growth.=E2=80=9DDittmar=E2=80=99s five-year-old foundation, based in Las Veg= as, New Mexico,=20 works with communities to make station reuse projects successful. Funded by=20 private and corporate donations and through membership dues, the foundation=20 is dedicated to restoring and preserving rail terminals through grants,=20 information networking and the Most Endangered Stations Program, which=20 highlights the terminals across the country in greatest need of preservation= .=20 Although the foundation focuses on those stations that maintain some=20 transportation element in the renewal, its efforts have a broader impact tha= n=20 that. Dittmar=E2=80=99s group produces a guidebook on station revitalization= and a=20 =E2=80=9Chow-to=E2=80=9D manual for adaptive reuse of stations, and it also=20= hosts yearly=20 rail revitalization seminars.Adaptive-reuse advocates emphasize that there=20 are right ways and wrong ways to do the station fix-up process. Geography=20 matters =E2=80=94 a building that=E2=80=99s located even a few blocks from t= he heart of town=20 may have trouble drawing crowds. And the attractions inside can=E2=80=99t ju= st be=20 curiosities. They have to be strong enough to bring locals back once the=20 novelty wears off. Terry Sweeney, the real estate development director for=20 the city of Indianapolis, concedes that while planners may have considered=20 Union Station a centerpiece of that city, geographically and economically=20= =E2=80=9Cit=20 was an island. There was no reason to go back to the festival marketplace=20 after a while. You need the right type of use that=E2=80=99s going to bring=20= people=20 back.=E2=80=9DFinding the right use is a tricky proposition for big cities a= nd small=20 ones alike. Joliet, Illinois, is a town of barely 80,000 people, but it has=20 an impressive terminal building, designed by Jarvis Hunt, the architect of=20 the station in Kansas City. The city bought the building in 1986, when it wa= s=20 crumbling, and began what would be a $6.5 million restoration effort =E2=80= =94=20 relatively ambitious for a town of Joliet=E2=80=99s size. When the project w= as=20 complete in 1991, the city waited for retail tenants to come, but they never= =20 did. Ten years later, they still haven=E2=80=99t.On the other hand, Joliet h= as been=20 creative enough to keep the project from becoming a total disaster. =E2=80= =9CAt=20 first, while we were focusing on retail and specialty stores, we kept turnin= g=20 down requests to rent the place out,=E2=80=9D says Jim Haller, Joliet=E2=80= =99s director of=20 community and economic development. Ultimately, Haller says, they decided=20 single-event bookings were a lot better than nothing. Joliet Union Station i= s=20 now rented for banquets, conferences, trade shows, weddings, car expos and=20 high school proms. The building is also home to several county government=20 offices. It=E2=80=99s a far cry from the city=E2=80=99s initial plan, but as= Haller=20 explains, =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=99re very flexible =E2=80=94 we just want to be=20= able to cover our=20 expenses.=E2=80=9DIndeed, flexibility may be the most important element of a= ll. And=20 cities gradually seem to be realizing it. In the past decade or so, railroad= =20 stations have been converted into municipal offices in Louisville, Kentucky,= =20 and Collierville, Tennessee; hotels in Chattanooga and Nashville; a bank in=20 Albany, New York; and loft apartments in Memphis. After its failure as a=20 mall, Cincinnati=E2=80=99s Union Terminal was reborn as a museum of natural=20= history,=20 and the station in Omaha is a museum as well. The terminal in Tacoma,=20 Washington, is now a federal courthouse, while Anchorage, Alaska, and Fargo,= =20 North Dakota, saw their stations become microbreweries.Sometimes a festival=20 marketplace turns out to be a failure, as it did in Cincinnati and=20 Indianapolis, but sometimes the idea works. The festival mall at the old St.= =20 Louis station, a $150 million project opened in 1985, has done well,=20 reminding visitors of similar spaces at Faneuil Hall in Boston and=20 Harborplace in Baltimore. Steven Miller, a managing partner of St. Louis=20 Station Associates, calls the project =E2=80=9Cthe stone in the pond=E2=80= =9D of the city=E2=80=99s=20 urban renewal. It sees more annual visitors than the Arch, the zoo or the=20 Cardinals.It was an appreciation of the need for flexibility that ultimately= =20 led Indianapolis to the current incarnation of that city=E2=80=99s terminal.= After=20 the festival marketplace closed in 1997, the city committed itself to=20 repairing the damaged structure and to striking a diverse mixture of tenants= .=20 Today, Union Station houses a banquet and catering facility, but also=20 includes an alternative school for at-risk students and a European-style=20 go-kart center geared to corporate retreats.This combination of tenants is=20 certainly nontraditional, and it=E2=80=99s clearly not a blend that a city c= ould ever=20 plan for. But, in the view of an increasing number of economic development=20 specialists, it=E2=80=99s the type of thinking that is mostly likely to bree= d success=20 in the long run.In short, cities are realizing that if they simply perform=20 the fix-up work and then become complacent, they are asking for trouble, no=20 matter how lavish the restoration job may be. =E2=80=9CYou have to reinvest=20= and=20 reinvent yourself periodically,=E2=80=9D says Terry Sweeney in Indianapolis.= =E2=80=9CFive=20 or 10 years from now, tastes change, and you have to adapt.=E2=80=9DHauser,=20 reflecting on nearly 15 years of difficult experience, agrees. =E2=80=9CWe a= ren=E2=80=99t=20 done,=E2=80=9D he says. =E2=80=9CWe never will be.=E2=80=9D Then he adds a t= ongue-in-cheek reminder=20 of the ultimate instability of these ambitious projects: =E2=80=9CHopefully,= =E2=80=9D he=20 says, =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=99ll be breaking even in about three years.=E2=80= =9D =20 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3ACBE880.E0821620_@_erols.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:37:36 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Hohman Avenue Tower (EL), Hammond, Indiana -From the Hammond Times Online... Group wants to save old rail tower Building in use for 100 years closed, replaced by computer technology. BY SHARON PORTA Times Correspondent HAMMOND -- A group of railroad enthusiasts are fighting to save the Hohman Avenue Tower before its scheduled demolition on May 10. For more than 100 years, railroad personnel have manned the tower 24 hours a day. But recently, a computer has taken over and the tower is scheduled to come down. However, a group calling themselves the Hohman Tower Alliance are doing what they can to preserve the last interlocking railroad tower in Hammond, located on Willow Court near Hohman Avenue. At one time, more than 5,000 towers stood guard at railroad crossings throughout the country, housing personnel who flipped the switches for north-south and east-west trains. However, with the computer, that function is now done miles away. Today, fewer than 175 towers are still operating. The alliance believes the tower can serve as an important focal point and information center for education on railroad history and its connection with Hammond. "That tower is a very valuable piece of railroad story,'' said Suzanne Long, the Calumet Room librarian at the Hammond Public Library. "It's a dying piece of technology. People won't know things used to be done manually without these towers around.'' Last month, the Indiana Harbor Belt Railroad completed a signal installation process that is the last in a series of projects designed to speed the flow of rail traffic through the Gary-Hammond-East Chicago rail corridor. As part of the project, the railroad's signal department began the process of retiring the Hohman Avenue Tower. Built by the Erie-Lackawanna Railroad around 1900, the tower had been in continuous operation until Friday, when it was closed. When the computerized changeover is completed, the tower, which is operated by CSX Transportation and maintained by IHB, will be replaced by a state-of-the-art micro-processor based control system linked by data radio to the railroad's dispatcher in Calumet City. The total project cost is about $750,000. The Griffith Historical Society recently saved that town's tower, and now Hammond historians are trying to do the same. Estimates show that it will cost about $60,000 to move the tower and a site has to be found, both by the May 10. "We've been talking to the railroad since last summer,'' said Brian Poland, city planner who also served on the Hammond Historic Preservation Commission and the Hammond Historical Society. "Two weeks ago they said we could have it, but it had to be moved by May 10. That is not sufficient time, since we are unsure where we will get the money and where we will put it.'' But according to railroad personnel, demolition of the two and a half story tower can't happen soon enough. "If it were up to me, I'd get it down tomorrow,'' said Vic Barks, the railroad's chief of police. "At State Line, someone had moved into the tower within two days of vacating it. Kids turn those towers into a clubhouse right away. It is our belief that abandoned buildings invite curiosity and vandals. We just don't want something to happen to someone.'' The Hohman Tower Alliance - Anyone interested in assisting their effort call (219) 852-2255 or e-mail hohmantower_@_yahoo.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3ACBEA0A.38CF0D2F_@_erols.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:44:10 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Historical SP Telegraph Office Found In Phoenix, AZ -From Altamont Press Newsline... Historical SP Telegraph Office Found In Phoenix John Totten, a Phoenix resident, has written in the latest issue of the Southern Pacific's Historical and Technical Society magazine "S-P Trainline" that he has located what he believes to be an old Espee telegraph office in the heart of Phoenix. Totten, in his letter to the editor, writes "Although remodeled and repainted, it can be identified by the general shape and size, as well as the board and batten siding. This one is located on 20th Street, between Jackson and Madison streets in Phoenix. This may have been the Picacho telegraph office mentioned in the article (referring to an earlier article in the SP Trainline). It is currently being used as a private residence." -SP Trainline, Gary Stilts ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3ACBEDCF.24633ECF_@_erols.com> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 00:00:15 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Spartanburg, SC The Great American Station Foundation "Station of the Month" is Spartanburg, SC. Read about it at: http://www.stationfoundation.org/stations/sotm/spartanburg/ ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #38 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000901c0bed2$76c97e20$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:47:50 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Camak, GA -From the Augusta (GA) Chronicle... Festival will celebrate state railroad history Web posted Friday, April 6, 2001 Have a thought? Go to the Forums or Chat. By Preston Sparks Staff Writer Looking for a break from golf this week? How about taking a trip into the past when the Masters Tournament wasn't the main gathering spot for visitors in the Augusta area and a railroad station in Camak was. It's all part of the Railroad Days Festival, a first-time event that will take place from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Saturday in the downtown streets of Camak, a town 38 miles west of Augusta in Warren County. The event will include everything from cloggers to arts and crafts to information booths with history and old photos of the Georgia Railroad - the state's first locomotive thoroughfare. The Georgia Railroad is special to the residents of Camak mostly because the railroad's first president was James Welborn Camak - the town's namesake. According to Alva Haywood, an organizer of the festival, Mr. Camak also was influential during the early 1800s in having several tracks of the Georgia Railroad meet in Camak, making the town home to the state's only railroad center at the time. ``The little town of Camak, who the most it ever had was less than 600 population ... was by that time connected to Atlanta, Augusta, Macon and Savannah,'' Mr. Haywood said. ``It was a gathering spot. It was a place for railroad people because it had these interchanges.'' Mr. Haywood said Saturday's festival will be the first one in Georgia to recognize the importance of railroads in the state and was started by Camak residents this year as a way to help revitalize their town. ``They said, `You know, it's a shame those buildings are going down like they are,''' he said, referring to empty buildings in the once-thriving downtown. ```We need to do something about it.' ``So, they said, `Let's come up and have something recognizing what railroads have meant to this little town.' And then, it started expanding.'' Mr. Haywood said anyone with a love of history and railroads will enjoy what the festival has to offer. ``People that are interested in railroads, they will see how they used to be,'' he said. To get to downtown Camak from Augusta, take Interstate 20 west and turn off at exit 165. Take a left over the interstate onto Georgia Highway 80 and continue about four miles to the town limits. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000f01c0bed2$dd533000$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:50:42 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Lafayette, IN: Party to celebrate last train rumbling through downtown Not quite depot related... -From The Lafayette, Indiana Courier... Party to celebrate last train rumbling through downtown By Joe Thomas, Journal and Courier Moses Fowler worked as hard in the 1840s and '50s getting railroad tracks to run in front of his Ninth Street mansion as James Riehle and Dave Heath have worked in the 1980s and '90s to remove them. Heath will meet Fowler, played by David Lahr, at 4:04 p.m. today amid confetti, balloons and cheers as the last train to travel through central Lafayette will make its way to a community celebration marking Railroad Relocation's culminating moment by passing on the tracks that Fowler fought for. It took 30 years and more than $182.5 million to move CSX Corp. and Norfolk Southern Corp. tracks from the downtown to a new rail corridor along the Wabash River. The CSX tracks, which once ran down Fifth Street, moved in 1994. The last Norfolk Southern freight train used the downtown corridor on March 11. Those tracks will disappear over the next year in Railroad Relocation's final task. The three-car ceremonial Norfolk Southern train will make three stops to close prominent grade crossings. It will arrive at the Sixth Street crossing at 3:53 p.m., where residents will have attached balloons to the tracks. The train will pop each balloon as it passes. The train arrives at the Ninth Street crossing at 4:04 p.m., where Kevin O'Brien, executive director of the Tippecanoe County Historical Association, will introduce Fowler to Heath and Riehle. The train will continue north, reaching the Ferry Street crossing at 4:15 p.m., greeted by representatives from the Perrin, Centennial and Historic Jefferson neighborhoods. It will arrive at Market Square at 4:30 p.m., unloading its passengers. Speakers include former U.S. Rep. John Myers and Ed Pease and U.S. Rep. Brian Kerns, R-7th District. After the speakers finish, the train will pass the Greenbush Street crossing for the final time, and Railroad Relocation will have succeeded in removing 41 grade crossings across Lafayette where vehicles and trains once met. Then, the party begins. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #39 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001801c0c0f6$e3604980$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:13:37 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Pauls Valley, OK -From the Daily Oklahoman... Pauls Valley rallies to keep depot 2001-04-08 PAULS VALLEY -- Not our train depot, they said the day in 1985 when the railroad man slipped into town minutes before the courthouse closed and paid for a demolition permit. The wrecking crew never had a chance. First, someone at City Hall telephoned Adrienne Grimmett to inform her about the permit, and to further alert her that the Santa Fe Depot was to be torn down two days hence. Adrienne, who was president of the Pauls Valley Historical Society, mobilized the troops. An Oklahoma City television news crew hot-wheeled it to Pauls Valley, and a reporter interviewed Adrienne in the dark, cobwebbed depot, which had been boarded up for years. Schoolchildren made "Save Our Depot" signs. Citizens of all ages wrote letters to the president of the Santa Fe Railway. Some of the letters were poignant, like the one from the woman who told of rushing to catch the mail train so that she could post the letter to her sister's husband, who was off at war, informing him that he was the father of twins. Or the woman who wrote to tell of accompanying her parents to the depot to see her father off to war, and then waiting, with her mother, for his return in a coffin. Emotions and action carried the day. "We stuck to our guns and got it," says Adrienne, who once again is president of the historical society at a significant moment in Pauls Valley's history with trains. With Amtrak stopping here now, city commissioners recently approved the construction of a new depot next to the old one. The old depot now in its second incarnation, has become a museum of the city's history -- train and otherwise. But that was a few years in happening. Once the depot had been saved, salvage was the next step. "The city said, 'OK, we've got it. Y'all fix it up,'" she says. The No. 1 volunteer was Louise Deaton, who, Adrienne says, "made this her life for eight or 10 years." Much of what has been accomplished is because of Louise's dedication. Adrienne is a Pauls Valley native whose parents raised her in the home built by Smith Pauls, the town's founder. She has her own memories of the train station, which was built in 1905. She and her mother took overnight shopping trips to Oklahoma City and to Dallas on the train, which was the only way many people could travel to big cities. "Kids now don't have any conception how important rail travel was," Adrienne said. In the early days, the depot -- like most public accommodations -- was segregated. Each race had its own waiting room, rest rooms and water fountains. What was once the "white" waiting room looks much like it did, with the ticket window and original benches intact. The schedule board leans against the wall beneath the ticket window. You can see where the chimney from the potbellied stove went through the ceiling. But the depot is more than a train museum. A framed scrap from the front page of the New York Herald hangs on one wall. It is dated April 15, 1865. The top headline is the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. A chalkboard saved from the high school still bears the names of Larry Willis, Dean Hart, Dick Murry and Pete Jordan, who chalked in their John Hancocks shortly before they graduated. "I need to put up a sign that says, 'Do not erase,'" Adrienne frets. Another wall holds a gold- inlaid spur that probably belonged to Mexico's Gen. Santa Ana. A letter from Thomas Edison hangs on a wall. Amtrak stops twice a day in Pauls Valley. Freight-train traffic is also plentiful, Adrienne said after one ran through, interrupted her tour of the depot and shook the concrete floor. "That's why we can't keep our pictures straight," she says. "Sometimes we'll get a real hot- rod engineer, and he'll shake us to death. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001e01c0c0f7$80c01160$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:18:01 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Cartersville, GA -From the Cartersville, GA Daily Tribune... City OKs bid for depot renovation Tim Allen Staff Writer Published April 07, 2001 10:05 PM CDT The Cartersville City Council approved a bid to begin renovating the CSX Railroad Depot, but at least one councilman had concerns about safety. Revised plans for the depot, which allow the project to stay within budget, call for the elimination of a fire sprinkler system. That concerned Councilman Scott Panter at Thursday night's meeting. However, Cartersville building inspector David Dye said he did research on the building and said the depot didn't have to have the sprinkler system because of its fire rate exit code. "What that basically means is because the Sheet Rock is rated one hour fire safe, it will prevent a fire from spreading all over the building for one hour's time," Dye said. He said the building will still have a fire alarm and smoke detectors. The building is also located about a block from Cartersville Fire Station No. 1. Cutting out the sprinkler system saved $15,000 from the bid, which helped in bringing the cost down from $740,000 to $580,000. The council gave the go ahead to Mechanical Electrical Associates, which submitted the low bid, to complete the work. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002701c0c0f9$489fdd40$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:30:42 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) North Philadelphia, PA NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the thumbnail image(s) for the listed filename(s). http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/listthumb.cgi?/lists/rshsdepot-photo/rshsdepot-04-09-01 news_1.jpg (image/jpeg, 7408 bytes) charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -From the Philadelphia Weekly... Station Stop Some see the closing of the ticket office at the North Philadelphia Amtrak station as an ominous sign for the neighborhood's future. BY BRIAN HICKEY The North Philadelphia Amtrak station, at Broad and Glenwood, has served as the perfect backdrop for politicians promising urban renewal at press conferences over the past several decades. The late '80s in particular brought promising possibilities that the depot would be restored as the anchor of a much-needed shopping center at the edge of what has now become the northern corridor of the Avenue of the Arts. In 1988, then-Congressman Bill Gray hopped aboard the positive-publicity express by announcing that Amtrak and a private developer were putting up $14 million for the plan. But the development didn't materialize immediately. Six years later, U.S. Rep. Tom Foglietta returned to announce an $18 million improvement project he called "a good example ... of the work I do in Congress." The improvements were ultimately made. Today the station stands as a beacon of new development next to a multimillion-dollar Pathmark and a strip of businesses so clean they look out of place. But last week, an announcement posted inside the historic station left North Philadelphia residents, politicians, developers and Amtrak commuters fearful that the turn-of-the-century structure could again become a trash-strewn graffiti canvas that few commuters will utilize. The announcement stated that the station's ticket office had been closed, forcing commuters to buy their tickets on the train after waiting outside on a platform for their ride. The lone North Philadelphia employee was reassigned to 30th Street Station. Amtrak claims it's no big deal since riders can get tickets after climbing aboard. The changes, Amtrak maintains, will not affect the number of trains that stop at the station. "We had very little business going through that office," says Amtrak spokeswoman Cecilia Cummings. "This is cost-efficient." Cummings blames a company-wide streamlining process for the move, adding that just 2,824 people boarded or disembarked from a train in North Philadelphia last year compared with 3,879 in 1998. At 30th Street Station, the number approaches four million. "Even though we can no longer really call it a station, the customers there are very important," says Cummings. "But in looking at every area of our operations, it just wasn't paying off there. When your costs exceed your revenues, it's just not smart to stay open." But City Councilman Darrell Clarke thinks the closing plays a role in the bigger picture of development in his district, which sits across Broad Street from the station. Though it's not in his district, the depot is important to the whole area's viability. "The station is a catalyst for the neighborhood's redevelopment," he says. The revamped station and new supermarket "proved the point that we could turn things around here. We had a lot of naysayers but the numbers associated with it prove reinvesting was a good decision. It brought the area back to life." Wednesday of last week, closing day for the North Philadelphia station, a metal shutter covered its entrance. A few cars sat in the parking lot as several commuters waited on the newly renovated platform for the 7:39 a.m. northbound train. For many who use the North Philadelphia station, the location is a matter of convenience. Taking the train from there doesn't just eliminate parking fees and the need to face a hectic 30th Street Station each morning, it reduces commuting time. Michael Matteo of Wynnewood rides these rails each morning to a Internet company's office in Manhattan. He says recent years have brought fewer departure times and that there's now only one commuter train heading to and -From North Philadelphia daily. "This is just a sign of things to come," says Matteo, noting that he cuts about an hour off his round-trip commute by using the North Philadelphia station. "There are beautiful platforms, but no security." (While the station had no security staff besides a ticket-taker before, there's now no Amtrak presence at all.) "There are huge parking lots," says Matteo, "No one's watching the cars and people are going to start breaking into them. The station will get wrecked again and the people of North Philly will suffer because of it. This place would boom with commuters and boost the economy up there if they just invested a little more money in it." The demise of North Philadelphia station could be perceived as another failure in an Avenue of the Arts plan that's taking much longer than expected to achieve. Karen Lewis, executive director of the Avenue of the Arts Agency, does say an $8.5 million streetscape program for North Broad will kick off later this year. The closing of the landmark station won't change the number of projects under way, she adds, but fewer people might be drawn to the area. "We'd hoped Amtrak would continue in that direction," Councilman Clarke says of the improvements already made at the station. "We were hoping to run with the ball on this one, to keep the numbers and the investments up. But it looks like Amtrak just wants to go in another direction." ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #40 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000d01c0c1bf$dfba0b80$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:12:19 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Bowling Green, KY -From the Bowling Green Daily News... Monday, April 09, 2001 Depot to be a stop again No trains to catch this time as building to open as library branch By Steve Gaines Although L&N Depot hasn’t had a passenger train stop at its gates since Oct. 1, 1979, it soon will provide connections to the information superhighway. The depot will be home to Bowling Green Public Library’s digital library. “I think (the depot) is a historical treasure for our city,” City Commissioner Jim Bullington said. “It would of been tragic if we would have lost it. (The renovation is) significant because it’s the only digital library in the state.” The library branch in the Depot Development Authority-owned facility will feature modern computer stations and Internet connections – a major renaissance for a building saved from likely destruction when Operation PRIDE bought it in 1993. The digital library is slated to open April 27 with hours from noon to 8 p.m. on Tuesdays and Thursdays and 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays, according to Karen Porter, former library director and now consultant on the project. The depot, built in 1925, is a federal-style building with Roman arches, tall ceilings and tile floors. It was once the center of attention in Bowling Green, with up to 27 passenger trains arriving at the historic structure to pick up travelers on any given day. Bullington, whose grandfather worked at the station, remembers the Hummingbird passenger train arriving at the station on a regular basis. “It would come through twice a week. It ran from Florida to Louisville,” he said. “It was a big deal in town.” The library will offer 28 public-use computers with high speed Internet access at no charge. An early childhood learning center will have 12 computers. When finished, the renovated depot also will feature a small cafe and a museum emphasizing Kentucky art and history, Operation PRIDE Director Tracy Fleck said. “It is an extremely significant project because not only does it preserve a historic structure, it will help to improve (the) community’s appearance and vitality,” Fleck said. The lobby will feature the murals of David Jones, which depict historical events at the station – including a soldier going to war and a child and his grandfather waiting for a train. Renovations for the $3.4 million project have been ongoing since receiving a first grant in 1995. A significant portion of the project has been funded through federal programs - ISTEA (Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act) and TEA-21 (Trans Equity Act for the 21st Century). There also has been a mix of local, state and other federal funding. While the space has been prepared for the new library, there is still furniture and equipment to be installed and the networking and software installation to be completed, Porter said. “There is still a lot of fine tuning to do,” she said. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001301c0c1c0$824649e0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:16:52 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Pine River, MN -From the Brainerd (MN) Daily Dispatch... Web posted Monday, April 9, 2001 Future of Pine River depot topic of debate 'I kind of see the depot as the Ellis Island of the area.' -- Douglas Birk Grew up in Pine River By RENEE RICHARDSON Senior Reporter PINE RIVER -- Evaluating the historic significance of the railroad depot in Pine River may mean looking at the wider picture of state settlement. Whether the depot holds historical significance is expected to be discussed at a public hearing Tuesday, but that meeting is unlikely to be the last word. Friday, city staff members said the issue is on the agenda for a Minnesota Department of Transportation public hearing regarding the depot. But there are questions about how much will be discussed at 7:30 p.m. Tuesday at Pine River City Hall. Staffers from the state's Historic Preservation Office reached today said they have not been notified of a meeting date and it would not meet their requirement for a public hearing on the subject. The preservation office requested the meeting after getting a report on the depot's historic significance from MnDOT. At issue is the future of the depot building. Depot ownership was transferred from Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad to MnDOT. The railroad sold the main rail line and switching line to the DNR. And the Paul Bunyan Trail, which transformed steel rail corridors into recreation paths, now runs next to the depot. The city council last fall voted to condemn the depot. MnDOT recently sent a report to the State Historic Preservation Office, concluding the depot was not eligible for listing on the National Register of Historic Places. After getting the report, the State Historic Preservation Office requested more information and a public meeting. The Pine River City Council set aside 15 minutes Tuesday for a public meeting during the council's regular agenda. City Attorney Ted Lundrigan said in January the city's opinion is that the building holds no unique historic qualities and MnDOT's cultural consultant reached the same opinion. Not everyone is willing to lay little historic significance to the depot. Douglas Birk grew up in Pine River and watched his former hometown change over the years. Birk, an archeologist and senior research fellow at the Institute for Minnesota Archeology, now lives in Minneapolis. Birk said preservation issues about what to save or not save are widespread in many communities. He said the depot is one example in Pine River. Birk has done considerable research on the depot. His file includes photos he took of the building when he was a Pine River High School student. Birk said MnDOT's consultant evaluated the depot on a logging railroad theme and while it was a logging railroad, he said the depot's significance stretches beyond that use. When Birk began researching the historic themes connected with the depot weeks ago, he said other significance was apparent. "The town wouldn't be there without a railroad," Birk said. He also went back to a 1960 aerial photograph of Pine River he bought as a teen-ager. "The town is laid out in relation to the railroad and here is this little depot sitting there and it looks like it is holding court for the whole town." The depot was completed in 1913. Birk said the building has been neglected since 1985. Birk said his research found the railroad put in another siding, where railcars could be cut from a train and left by the depot, in response to the immigrant cars arriving there. In past research of the city, Birk said families told him that box cars were loaded with belongings even as families traveled to Pine River by covered wagon. "I kind of see the depot as the Ellis Island of the area," Birk said. "You have to evaluate it more than on the logging history." Birk said he recently found out there are segments of the railroad bed from Lake Hubert to Walker that were determined to be eligible for the National Historic Register, meaning the depot could be looked at as part of a larger system and its role in the state's settlement. "I would think the citizens there would know what is and what is not important," Birk said of depot's importance to the community. "If it's eligible for the National Register or not, it is something that should really be saved by the people of that town." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001901c0c1c2$e731f140$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:34:01 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Eugene, OR -From Northwest Rails.com... City of Eugene Will Purchase Depot -From March 30th: The city of Eugene is picking up steam in its plans to buy and refurbish the train depot at the north of Willamette Street in Eugene. The city and the station's owner, Jenova Land Company, are expected to sign an agreement as early as this week. The terms of the deal aren't public yet, but the price for the depot and surrounding parcels is expected to be in the neighborhood of $1.5 million. The purchase will include the former Railroad Express Agency office east of the depot, a building rail advocates see as a possible new home for Greyhound's bus station. The city is waiting for an appraisal of that parcel. In another development, Amtrak plans to give up to $1 million for the project, which the city expects will cost about $5 million. Previously the city wasn't sure how much it would see from Amtrak, which leases the 93-year old depot. So far the city has raised another $2.75 million in federal grants, leaving it more than $1 million short of what is needed to restore, repair and modernize the station. The project is running behind schedule, largely due to the city's difficulties in securing funding and negotiating the purchase of the property. Originally the city had hoped to be restoring the depot by now. The project may include expanding the building to give passengers and Amtrak workers more room. At the least, the ticket counters and baggage area will be reconfigured. Previous studies have indicated a need for more space for passengers, including a raised platform for easy boarding, as train use grows. In February, monthly ridership between Eugene and Portland was up 27 percent -From a year earlier. In the first phase, the city will do as much construction as it can with available funds. Officials probably will focus on removing hazardous materials, such as asbestos inside the building and an underground storage tank outside, and work to make the structure more functional as a train station. The traffic circulation and parking projects might wait for the second and final phase of construction, in 2003 or 2004, depending on the city's success at finding more money. The city plans to extend Oak Street north to Fifth Avenue for a second access to the station. The single story Romanesque Revival-style building was built in 1907 by Southern Pacific Railroad. Thanks to the Eugene Register-Guard ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002501c0c1c4$9ba97a20$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:46:12 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) NYC: 72nd St. Station Project -From the NY Times... April 10, 2001 Tunnel Vision: 72nd St. Station Project Has Riders Feeling Squeezed By RANDY KENNEDY When thinking about the stately, spindly anachronism that is known as the 72nd Street Subway Station, here are some interesting facts to consider: Less than 20 years before the station opened in 1904, the Upper West Side was still so bucolic that this newspaper described how buildings were just beginning to outnumber big rocks, of the towering sort "usually crowned by a rickety shanty and a browsing goat." Little more than 20 years after it opened, the Transit Authority was already talking about making the tiny station bigger because it had helped the neighborhood around it to grow so big that the station itself had become far too small. Now, almost a century after it opened, the station is exactly the same size as it always was and the platforms within it are no more commodious than they were in 1904: 15 1/2 feet at their widest, about as wide as the deck of a deluxe bass boat. And yet the neighborhood that uses the station is the most densely populated residential area in Manhattan and one of the most dense in the country. (New census figures are still being parsed, but in 1990 there were 210,993 Upper West Siders living in an area of less than two square miles.) Most mornings and evenings, as anyone who uses the station knows too well, it feels like nearly every one of these people and their extended families are trying to troop single file up or down the station's 48-inch- wide staircases — the ones that have the antique wooden handles and the steepness of Gothic steeples. "Oh my God, there it is, there it is, there it is," said a balding, perspiring man yesterday after triumphantly squeezing through a downtown turnstile just before 9 a.m. and thinking he might actually catch the train he could hear pulling into the station below. "There it goes, there it goes," he said sadly, as he shuffled along with the churning crowd at the top of the stairs and listened as his train pulled out. "Oy," he added. Down below a few minutes later, the downtown platform looked like an overfilled lifeboat. The people on it looked angry enough to start throwing their shipmates overboard. And quite a few people teetered close enough to the edge to make this easy. "It's rush and push and cuss," said Mae Dawson, a retired home health aide. "Horrible. Horrible." She added, "And lots of vulgar language." She held her ground as people swarmed around her off the stairs. "I stay in the middle here." she said. "You just never know." Generally, when New York City Transit begins a multimillion-dollar renovation of a subway station — in the case of 72nd Street, a $53 million project, which began last year — there are at least small signs of hope among riders, even amid the jackhammers. But the people who regularly use the 72nd Street station are unusually well-informed about their renovation project. And while it will add four new stairways and elevator service to the north end of the platforms, while it will extend the platforms by about 50 feet, while it will wipe away the patina of age from the sagging station, it will not do the only thing that Marvin Durell, for one, really cares about. "You know what's going to happen?" said Mr. Durell, a manager at an auto-parts company. "In the evening, the extra stairs are going to help people get out faster. Fine. That's nice. "But in the morning, exactly the opposite's going to happen. People are going to be able to get in here faster. And the platform's still going to be this narrow. And then what's going to happen?" Even longtime critics of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's plans concede that the agency is, almost literally, caught between a rock and a hard place. The station is mostly sunk into solid bedrock. Estimates for what it would cost to blast out some of that rock on the downtown side alone — to widen the subway's trench, relocate all the utilities, move the tracks out and widen the platform there — have ranged as high as $200 million. That is more than twice the amount now being spent on renovations at the Times Square station, a station that handles millions more riders a year. Which means that 72nd Street subway riders have basically these things to look forward to: more dust, more noise, more diversions and more R.C.A.'s, the menacing, bright yellow construction shacks that say "restricted clearance area" and make the platforms even smaller. And when it is all over two years from now, what they will probably notice is that they will have a little more room to stand at the end of the platform. "People don't stand at the very end of the platform," said Andrew Albert, chairman of the Transit Riders Council, an advisory group. "Unless they have some other business they're taking care of." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002d01c0c1c8$24df2e40$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:11:31 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Railcams Many of you have stayed, like I have, at the Holiday Inn in Cumberland, MD. Just outside this multi-story hotel pass the busy B&O mainline tracks to Sand Patch grade and Seventeen Mile grade. Camera toting railfans asking for a room facing the CSX tracks has rarely elicited even the slightest hesitation from desk clerks. But the management of the Holiday Inn did not market itself as a "railfan hotel." Now that has changed. The Holiday Inn, in a tradition perhaps started by the Izaak Walton Inn in MT, but certainly expanded upon the Station Inn in Cresson, PA, has begun to advertise its railfanning attributes in national railfan publications. And in the spirit of "a picture is worth a thousand words" has installed a webcam on its rooftop pointed towards the tracks. Check it out at: http://railcams.com/md1/index.html And for more railcams go to: http://railcams.com/webcams.html Note that most of the railcams are at depot locations. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001d01c0c1e4$921185a0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:35:01 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Catawissa, PA Back in December, 2000 the Reading RR Catawissa, PA depot was severely damaged by fire. But its owner, railfan Walter D. Gosciminski, has been rebuilding the depot and by the end of January had a new roof installed and the exterior looking nearly as good as new. Unfortunately, in February, Walter hurt his foot in a fall from a ladder, but he promises to finish his rebuilding as soon as he recovers. For pictures of the fire, the rebuilding, and of Walt's foot, go to: http://www.caboosenut.com/fire.htm Good luck, Walter! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003301c0c1e7$8605b120$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:56:09 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Cumberland, Maryland's Historic Station Roof Collapse Via Gordy Bjoraker.... CUMBERLAND, MARYLAND'S HISTORIC STATION ROOF COLLAPSE... On Monday afternoon, tons of plaster fell from the ceiling of the main foyer at the Western Maryland Station Center, damaging everything beneath it. A copper-rimmed chandelier with a large, white dome also fell and was destroyed. The incident took place at approximately 17:00 ET and triggered an automatic fire alarm, bringing a response from Cumberland firefighters. Ironically, the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad board of directors was on the third floor of the building and heard the loud noise from the building and immediately evacuated the building after the fire alarm sounded. As they did so, plaster dust and debris filled the air, making it very difficult to see what had transpired. The section of ceiling that fell appeared to be about 15 feet by 25 feet. Large blocks of the plaster rested on two water fountains attached to a wall. A photograph of the B&O Railroad hung crooked on that same wall. There were no displays or kiosks directly below the ceiling. According to a WMSR official, it is likely that temporary housing arrangements will have to be made for the sale of scenic railroad tickets. The first train of the new year is expected to chug out of the station on its way to Frostburg on Sunday. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #41 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004501c0c297$4171c840$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:54:05 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Ft. Payne, AL -From the Gadsden (AL) Times... House votes to cut funding for historic sites By Dana Beyerle Times Montgomery Bureau MONTGOMERY - The House has cut the appropriation to state-owned historic sites by more than $500,000 and cut another $607,500 to non-state historic sites, including the Fort Payne Historical train depot. The House version of next year's $1.2 billion General Fund passed last week that now goes to the Senate eliminates state funding by $607,500 to 17 historical sites not owned by the state and cuts spending to nine state-owned historical sites by $907,675. ...The General Fund passed by the House contains no money for the three historic train depots and museums in DeKalb and Jackson counties, including the Fort Payne Depot. The three were appropriated $60,000 this fiscal year. Senate President Pro Tem Lowell Barron, D-Fyffe, said he plans to seek funding for the three depots when the budget gets to the Senate. ''These are three tiny projects and they're the most historic depots in Alabama dating back to the 1800s,'' Barron said. ''The Civil War was fought all around there. ''Let's either cut them all out or let's be fair,'' Barron said. A spokesman with the Fort Payne Depot could not be reached for comment. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #42 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00db01c0c6bf$adf5e380$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:53:32 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Ft. Smith, AR -From the Fort Smith Times Record... Government Offers To Buy Old Depot By Samantha Young WASHINGTON — The government is prepared to pay $850,000 to buy an old train depot on the Arkansas River and add it to the Fort Smith National Historic Site, according to budget documents released this week. The owner of the St. Louis and San Francisco Railroad Depot, otherwise known as the Frisco Station, is willing to sell but said the property is worth more than the government is offering. Businessman Michael Morton puts the price tag at $1.53 million. He said he has invested about $500,000 in the property since he first quoted his $850,000 price to the government about four years ago. The historic 1910 station sits on 1.12 acres south of the Garrison Avenue bridge. The two-story building now houses the headquarters of Fort Smith-based Central Arkansas Nursing Centers. “The building is not functional as an office as big as mine is getting,” Morton said. “It would fit in their deal better than me. I’m just trying to get out of it what I’ve got in it. I just don’t want to get ripped off.” The National Park Service included the Fort Smith parcel in its land acquisition budget for the fiscal year that begins in October. Congress must approve the project and its funding between now and then. Bill Black, superintendent of the Fort Smith National Historical Site, said the government could end up negotiating the price with Morton, but only after Congress weighs in. The Fort Smith property is among 39 projects nationwide included in the Park Service’s proposed $95.6 million budget for land purchases, said Bill Shaddox, agency chief of land resources The park service has had its eye on the property since 1976 when Congress redrew park boundary lines. However, the government has never come up with the money to purchase the site. This year, the Fort Smith property beat out more than 150 projects, ranking high on the list of regional and national land proposals, Shaddox said. “The owner has always been a willing seller,” Black said. “It just made priority this year. It’s been on the list for number of years now.” Park officials say the government should buy the property to ensure the owner does not sell to an unfriendly business. “The park could have a problem in the future if these owners relocate and the property runs down or if the property sells and the new owner implements a non-compatible use such as a nightclub, restaurant or other use that results in a lot of traffic coming and going through the property,” a budget application states. The depot borders National Park Service grounds and is just 25 feet from the park commissary building. The site also includes a 75-space parking lot, an attractive feature for a park that needs additional visitor parking. The National Park Service has several proposals on the table for the depot if it acquires the property. One plan would be to convert the station into an interactive learning center for school children studying Arkansas history. “It would allow us to work with schools in Oklahoma and Arkansas and turn it into a discovery center for kids,” Black said. “If our schools are interested it would be a nice facility for our teachers to use.” The idea is in line with a nationwide effort to make national parks more child-friendly, Black said. “Our exhibits are for adults. If you ever come to our visitor centers we don’t have a lot for kids to touch, pull and yank,” Black said. Another idea would be to return train service to the city. Black said he would like to see the Arkansas-Missouri Railroad extend its excursion train route from Van Buren to Fort Smith. The vintage train now runs from Winslow through the Boston Mountains to Van Buren. Black said the train would draw visitors to downtown Fort Smith. Park officials said the Friso depot is in good condition and they do not anticipate spending much money on renovations. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3ADBBBA4.7D44E426_@_erols.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:42:28 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Great Railroad Stations: Ft Edward, NY The newest installment of John Dahl's "Great Railroad Stations" is online. Go to: http://www.trainweb.org/rshs/great_railroad_stations.htm ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3ADBBE87.7774DA70_@_erols.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:54:47 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Bucyrus, Ohio -From the EL List... > > Good news!!! To those of us in Ohio anyway! I went to Bucyrus last > weekend, after a brief stop in Marion to take a gander at Ac tower, but > what I found out in Bucyrus was that the T&OC station may soon be under > restoration! A committee has been formed and some other political papers > are being shuffled around so stand buy and see what happens! Those who > want to be kept up to date let me know and I'll pass on what I know when > I know it, Im going back up there this weekend, I was born/raised in > Bucyrus and still have family there, and I hope to take a few pics > before much happens, although the building looks rather grim right now. > One last note, Bucyrus was a RR dyeing town not too long ago, after the > forming of CR the east-west tracks were hardly used, im guessing 4 > trains a day, if that. But now its a busy place again, NS added a > interchange track to go from Columbus north,,RR west?? to east onward to > Crestline, its busy again now, hopefully I'll get to check it out better > this summer, but it never again will be like it was when i was in school > in Nevada, just west of Bucyrus, seeing all the different adsorbents > into Conrail, those were the days, wish I knew than what I think I know > now. Have a great day, Todd ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3ADBC0C9.DFFF7813_@_erols.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:04:25 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Marion, Ohio's "new" AC tower More from the EL list... Paul Tupaczewski wrote: > > List member Pete Scheckermann passed along some slides he took of the "new" > Marion AC tower taken on November 19, 2000. This is going to be the location > of this year's ELHS Convention. Here are some images to whet your > appetite... > > http://el-list.railfan.net/actower.jpg - A photo of the freshly-painted (in > Erie colors) tower from the station side. The tower used to sit across the > tracks where the gray building is. > > http://el-list.railfan.net/modelboard.jpg - The model board inside the > tower, being restored to the track diagram found here in the early 1960's. > > http://el-list.railfan.net/towerview.jpg - A view of westbound CSX train > Q636 taken from the back window of the tower. > > http://el-list.railfan.net/csxpassing.jpg - A CSX eastbound on the former > Erie/NYC joint line to Galion rolling past the tower. This view shows the > track side of the tower. > > Thanks, Pete! > > - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3ADBC280.7DC6E63E_@_erols.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:11:44 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Henderson, KY I received the following... From: "Netta" (netta1_@_henderson.net) http://shoulders_research.tripod.com/depot-main.htm I would be interested in ANYTHING you might have or know about our Union Station Depot. My site is not completed but I'm working on it. Please check it out. The Henderson County Historical & Genealogical Society owned the building but being a non-profit organization we could not drum up enough funds to get her restored. So we decided after a long soul searching to give her to the City of Henderson so that they could apply for the TEA21 Grants available. One grant of $300,000 has been received but the City has yet to use the money for the exterior renovations as it was applied for. Right before the City took over ownership, they had a huge retention basin built in front of the Depot. Now it seems according to an engineering firm that the basin has caused a shift in the water levels and the Depot is starting to deteriorate fasting than ever imagined. Please see TheGleaner.com for articles regarding this. A specialist out of Lexington evaluated our girl and said that she can still be saved but with the huge Riverfront Development downtown, we're afraid that the City intends to move the Depot yet the grants needed have not been applied for. I'm so afraid that the building will simply crumble and as you can see the history this building provides is unmeasureable. Well thanks for listening. Sincerely, Netta Mullin Vice President Henderson Co. Historical & Genealogical Society, Inc. P. O. Box 303 Henderson, KY 42419-0303 ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #43 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:01:58 EDT From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Brookfield, WI Seeks Grant For Railroad Depot Brookfield seeks grant for railroad depot Milwaukee Journal Sentinel 4/16/01 Brookfield seeks grant for railroad depot City wants to overhaul 19th-century building for high-speed rail; Sun Prairie also in running By SCOTT WILLIAMS of the Journal Sentinel staff Monday, April 16, 2001 Brookfield is seeking state funds to transform a 19th-century railroad depot into a stopover on a $4.1 billion high-speed passenger rail network crisscrossing the Midwest. The Waukesha County community is competing for the $60,000 state grant with Sun Prairie, a city outside Madison that expects to be bypassed by high-speed rail and instead wants to use the money to develop localized commuter rail. State officials plan by June to announce a decision in the first- ever Passenger Rail Station Improvement Grant program. Brookfield Community Development Director Dan Ertl said officials hope the proposed high-speed rail network will reinvigorate an older section of town that once thrived as a center of railroad activity. "It would be a large undertaking but an exciting opportunity," he said. Built in 1867, the depot along Brookfield Road is currently used as a maintenance facility for > Canadian Pacific Railway. City officials hope to use the state grant -- along with $120,000 in required local matching funds -- to build new accommodations for Canadian Pacific and begin converting the old depot. The city recently invested about $2 million upgrading nearby roads, sidewalks and other facilities to make the area attractive to new business, including passenger rail. As proposed, the $4.1 billion high-speed rail network would link Milwaukee to Chicago, St. Louis, Minneapolis and other Midwest cities through a network of trains traveling up to 110 mph. Former Gov. Tommy G. Thompson, chairman of the >Amtrak board and now the U.S. secretary of health and human services, has been a driving force behind the initiative, which awaits a decision on federal funding. Brookfield would be a stopover on the leg extending from Milwaukee to Madison. High-speed rail is separate from other Amtrak service changes discussed in recent years, including a Milwaukee-to-Fond du Lac passenger route with a possible stop in Waukesha County. State lawmakers last year approved the Passenger Rail Station Improvement Grant as a mechanism to help communities or developers with "construction or rehabilitation of passenger railroad stations along existing or proposed rail passenger routes." Officials in Sun Prairie have their own idea about using the money. Ann Davis, executive director of the Sun Prairie Chamber of Commerce, said officials there plan to transform a former factory into a commuter rail station in the community's downtown area. A commuter rail network linking Madison with several suburbs is under study. Davis said some officials in Sun Prairie -- a city of about 20,000 -- are disappointed that high-speed rail would pass through the community without stopping, bringing no potential payoff for the local economy. In contrast, she said, the commuter rail station could provide a boost to downtown revitalization. "If we had an anchor like that, there's just all sorts of advantages," she said. The Bureau of Railroads and Harbors in the state's Department of Transportation is considering the Brookfield and Sun Prairie grant applications. Frank Huntington, head of the bureau's rail project and property management section, said officials are still trying to determine if either application is viable. He explained that Sun Prairie's proposal does not involve high- speed rail, which he said was a preference for the grant program, while Brookfield's plan to relocate a railroad company does not clearly fulfill the requirement for "construction or rehabilitation" of a rail station. Of more than 40 communities and others invited to apply for the grants, Brookfield and Sun Prairie were the only ones to apply before the March 15 deadline. Huntington said a decision is expected by June. "It shouldn't take too long with only two applicants," he said. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:03:43 EDT From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Denver Officials Are Poised to Turn Train Station Into Transit Hub Denver Officials Are Poised to Turn Train Station Into Transit Hub The Denver Post=20 =A0 Apr. 14--The Regional Transportation District could pay up to $60 million to= =20 acquire Denver's historic Union Station for a metro area transit hub.=20 With RTD as owner, Union Station would be the nexus of metro transit. Detail= s=20 of the complex transaction emerged Friday, and RTD directors are expected to= =20 vote on the purchase proposal at their board meeting Tuesday night.=20 =A0 The final acquisition price won't be decided until RTD and Union Station's=20 owners get appraisals on the value of the building and surrounding land. The= =20 entire site consists of 18 acres. The station, parts of which date to 1881,=20 is owned by the Union Pacific Railroad, real estate and rail investor Pat=20 Broe, and Trillium Corp., a development company that has large holdings in=20 the Central Platte Valley.=20 =A0 If the appraisals of RTD and Union Station's owners are within 15 percent of= =20 each other, the parties will split the difference to establish the final=20 purchase price -- with $60 million as the cap, said Bob Briggs, an RTD=20 director.=20 =A0 RTD General Manager Cal Marsella said the city of Denver has agreed to join=20 with RTD in acquiring the rail station. The Denver Regional Council of=20 Governments also may contribute to the purchase.=20 =A0 Wayne Cauthen, chief of staff for Mayor Wellington Webb, said Denver will=20 contribute $10 million from surplus funds to buy the station.=20 =A0 At its peak in the early 1900s, Union Station handled 80 trains a day, but=20 over the past 40 years the interstate highway system and air travel reduced=20 the demand for passenger rail service. Union Station now has only two=20 scheduled trains a day.=20 =A0 Still, local officials say they see a bright future for the structure as a=20 hub where Amtrak, light rail, commuter rail, regional express buses and=20 intercity bus lines all merge.=20 =A0 "We want to make sure they all connect to the central city," said Cauthen,=20 explaining Denver's investment in the project.=20 =A0 RTD now is building its Central Platte Valley light-rail line, which will=20 link Union Station with the Auraria campus and the transit district's centra= l=20 and southwest rail corridors.=20 =A0 The $46 million, 1.8-mile Platte Valley line will have stops at Pepsi=20 Center/Elitch Gardens and the new Denver Broncos stadium. It is scheduled to= =20 open in a year.=20 =A0 Purchase of Union Station by RTD and the city means there will not be=20 high-rise commercial development on the site, officials said.=20 =A0 The station's current owners have rights to high-rise development, but=20 Cauthen said the city favors commercial development on the site with lower=20 building heights that fit better with the area.=20 =A0 Briggs said if the two appraisals of Union Station are not within 15 percent= =20 of each other, an independent third party will do yet another appraisal to=20 help determine the station's selling price.=20 =A0 At a Friday conference sponsored by the Transit Alliance, which promotes the= =20 expansion of passenger rail in the metro area, Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky=20 Anderson said Denver and surrounding communities would be wise to lock up=20 ownership of Union Station now for future transportation needs.=20 =A0 Salt Lake City failed to acquire and preserve a similar downtown rail=20 facility and now, as the Utah Transit Authority plans to expand light rail=20 and build commuter rail in the area, "we have to start from scratch" to=20 create a central location downtown where the lines can converge, Anderson=20 said.=20 =A0 "Do it for the future of this city," he advised local leaders.=20 =A0 The UTA now has one 15-mile, north-south light-rail line running from=20 downtown Salt Lake City to Sandy, Utah. By the end of the year, the transit=20 authority expects to open a 2 1/2-mile east-west line from downtown to the=20 University of Utah, which will be a major activity center for the 2002 Winte= r=20 Olympics.=20 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:30:55 -0500 From: "Kenton Dickerson" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bucyrus, Ohio An interesting note is that the station in Bucyrus and the Alabama Great Southern station in Ft. Payne, AL are almost exact copies of each other. They were probably designed by the same architect. - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Jim Dent Reply-To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net To: RSHS List Subject: (rshsdepot) Bucyrus, Ohio Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:54:47 -0400 -From the EL List... > > Good news!!! To those of us in Ohio anyway! I went to Bucyrus last > weekend, after a brief stop in Marion to take a gander at Ac tower, but > what I found out in Bucyrus was that the T&OC station may soon be under > restoration! A committee has been formed and some other political papers > are being shuffled around so stand buy and see what happens! Those who > want to be kept up to date let me know and I'll pass on what I know when > I know it, Im going back up there this weekend, I was born/raised in > Bucyrus and still have family there, and I hope to take a few pics > before much happens, although the building looks rather grim right now. > One last note, Bucyrus was a RR dyeing town not too long ago, after the > forming of CR the east-west tracks were hardly used, im guessing 4 > trains a day, if that. But now its a busy place again, NS added a > interchange track to go from Columbus north,,RR west?? to east onward to > Crestline, its busy again now, hopefully I'll get to check it out better > this summer, but it never again will be like it was when i was in school > in Nevada, just west of Bucyrus, seeing all the different adsorbents > into Conrail, those were the days, wish I knew than what I think I know > now. Have a great day, Todd _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005a01c0c768$275ce720$86bd4781_@_muc04293wvnet> References: Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:59:30 -0400 From: "Don Mills, Jr." Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bucyrus, Ohio Please, I would like to know as I am researching a book on the Kanawha & Michigan which later becomes a vital part of the T&OC. Don in WV - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenton Dickerson" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:30 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Bucyrus, Ohio > An interesting note is that the station in Bucyrus and the Alabama Great > Southern station in Ft. Payne, AL are almost exact copies of each other. > They were probably designed by the same architect. > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Jim Dent > Reply-To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net > To: RSHS List > Subject: (rshsdepot) Bucyrus, Ohio > Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:54:47 -0400 > > > From the EL List... > > > > > Good news!!! To those of us in Ohio anyway! I went to Bucyrus last > > weekend, after a brief stop in Marion to take a gander at Ac tower, but > > what I found out in Bucyrus was that the T&OC station may soon be under > > restoration! A committee has been formed and some other political papers > > are being shuffled around so stand buy and see what happens! Those who > > want to be kept up to date let me know and I'll pass on what I know when > > I know it, Im going back up there this weekend, I was born/raised in > > Bucyrus and still have family there, and I hope to take a few pics > > before much happens, although the building looks rather grim right now. > > One last note, Bucyrus was a RR dyeing town not too long ago, after the > > forming of CR the east-west tracks were hardly used, im guessing 4 > > trains a day, if that. But now its a busy place again, NS added a > > interchange track to go from Columbus north,,RR west?? to east onward to > > Crestline, its busy again now, hopefully I'll get to check it out better > > this summer, but it never again will be like it was when i was in school > > in Nevada, just west of Bucyrus, seeing all the different adsorbents > > into Conrail, those were the days, wish I knew than what I think I know > > now. Have a great day, Todd > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:35:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Andy Ingraham Dwyer Subject: (rshsdepot) OPLIN Announcement: Ohio Sanborn Maps now online My wife, public librarian, sugar mama (now that I am a stay-at-home dad), and all around great woman, informs me that the Ohio Public Library Information Network has just recently made available *online* the digitized Sanborn Maps for the state of Ohio! They are licensed for use by Ohio Citizens, and available online now. Just keep your library card -From any Ohio public library handy, you'll need it to get in. And she tells me that "2321 records include the word 'Depot'!". - -Andy - -----Original Message----- OPLIN is pleased to announce that "Digital Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps" is now live. It is also included in OPLIN Research Database Remote Access. Public libraries that wish to link directly to the product from their own Web site may do so by linking to: http://oplin.lib.oh.us/products/SanbornMaps/index.cfm The Ohio Sanborn map collection is a joint project of OPLIN and OhioLINK. OPLIN licensed the maps on behalf of Ohio libraries, and OhioLINK made them part of its Digital Media Center, providing superior searching and display capabilities. Our license is perpetual and covers not only public and academic libraries but the school libraries as well. Please look at the quick, short and long descriptions on the OPLIN web site at OPLIN Research Databases: http://www.oplin.lib.oh.us/dsp_ResearchDatabases.cfm The Full Description version of the abstract on the OPLIN Web site, for now, is as follows: "The Digital Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps collection provides a searchable interface for locating historical Maps of Ohio towns and cities. These maps were digitized from microfilm copies by Chadwyck-Healey, a Bell & Howell Information and Learning company. The searchable database is a joint project of OPLIN and OhioLINK. -From 1876 to 1970, the Sanborn Insurance Company created more than 40,035 maps of Ohio towns and cities. Originally used for fire insurance records, these detailed maps identify individual buildings on each block. Detailed information on the maps includes a given building's occupant status (e.g., hotel or state capitol), the building's height, and building's street address among other things. To date, Ohio's historians, urban geographers and archaeologists, and researchers in architecture and ethnic studies have used the printed maps, which are available in printed form in some Ohio libraries." A press release and a brief factsheet will follow in the next day or so. ____________________________________________ The Ohio Public Library Information Network (OPLIN) Carol Lynn Roddy Executive Director Voice (614) 728-5252 FAX (614) 728-5256 1321 Arthur E. Adams Drive, 1st Floor Columbus, OH 43221 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008e01c0c777$13714580$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:46:20 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) UP Big Boy No. 4004 eyed for move to Cheyenne, Wyo., depot -From Trains.com News Wire... UP Big Boy No. 4004 eyed for move to Cheyenne, Wyo., depot Union Pacific Big Boy 4-8-8-4 No. 4004, which has sat in a Cheyenne, Wyo., park since 1959, could become the focal point of a proposed railroad museum at the former UP depot. UP engineer and Big Boy Committee Chairman Ken Esquibel told the Casper (Wyo.) Star-Tribune that it would cost about $100,000 to move the locomotive nine blocks to the depot. The necessary funding could be in place by July 2002. But the project faces several hurdles, including the condition of the Big Boy itself ­– it suffered water damage during a 1985 flood – and whether Wyoming highway officials would permit it to be moved to the depot via roads. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00a401c0c778$895006a0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:56:47 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Selma, NC -From the Raleigh, NC News-Observer Plan to revive train station gains steam in town turning to its past SELMA, N.C. (AP) -- After a small investment helped convert this Johnston County town's core from vacant buildings into a antiques mecca, officials are again turning to the past to improve the future. Four years ago, Selma's leaders invested $25,000 to pay rent for antiques dealers willing to set up shop downtown. Today, the former textile village welcomes hundreds of visitors a week to its busy downtown antiques district. This week, the town council approved a $2.7 million project to restore the circa 1924 brick depot. Federal and state agencies will provide 90 percent of the money; Selma agreed to pay the balance. Council members hope the renovation will beautify the area and draw visitors from around the state. "We're tickled to death," said Mayor Joseph A. Moore Jr. Amtrak's Carolinian passenger train still stops in Selma twice a day, but the boarded-up depot has been off limits to passengers for several years. They board and depart from a paved road next to the tracks. "Even considering the dilapidated condition of our station, over 6,000 people boarded the train in Selma last year," Town Manager Bruce Radford said. "We hope with a new station that ridership will continue to increase." The depot remains a stately building despite peeling white paint and missing roof tiles. On Friday, as a light drizzle fell outside, a turtle dived into the murky depths of the flooded basement. Inside the building, the middle of the faded red floor has been torn out. Outside, the sun and rain have rubbed the edges off a wooden canopy and the sky is visible through several holes. The depot will be rebuilt "from the ground up," the mechanical systems updated and the platforms renovated, Radford said. The project should take just over one year to complete. Raylene Jessup chose to open her antiques store in Selma three years ago in part because she knew of the plans to restore the train station. Jessup hopes the restored depot will help bring families looking for a day trip in the Triangle. Families now come despite the shabby station, but a proper welcome into town could attract even more, she said. "I think it will make for such a nice outing," Jessup said. The state Department of Transportation supports train depot restoration projects in part to help spur redevelopment in railroad towns, said Craig Newton, a senior project engineer with DOT's rail division. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002001c0c778$1519f700$ad090b18_@_ftwrth1.tx.home.com> References: <008e01c0c777$13714580$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:53:32 -0500 From: "Jim Hollis" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) UP Big Boy No. 4004 eyed for move to Cheyenne, Wyo., depot I know what. Get the alleged "Big Boy" film producer involved. Why this ought to be right up his alley. Seriously I hope they go get the 4-6-0 out Pioneer Park in Cheyenne and put it back at the depot also. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dent" To: "RSHS List" Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 2:46 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) UP Big Boy No. 4004 eyed for move to Cheyenne, Wyo., depot > From Trains.com News Wire... > > UP Big Boy No. 4004 eyed for move to Cheyenne, Wyo., depot > > Union Pacific Big Boy 4-8-8-4 No. 4004, which has sat in a Cheyenne, Wyo., > park since 1959, could become the focal point of a proposed railroad museum > at the former UP depot. > > UP engineer and Big Boy Committee Chairman Ken Esquibel told the Casper > (Wyo.) Star-Tribune that it would cost about $100,000 to move the locomotive > nine blocks to the depot. The necessary funding could be in place by July > 2002. > > But the project faces several hurdles, including the condition of the Big > Boy itself ­– it suffered water damage during a 1985 flood – and whether > Wyoming highway officials would permit it to be moved to the depot via > roads. > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3ADCF78A.8784144C_@_erols.com> References: Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:10:18 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Bucyrus, Ohio and Ft Payne, AL Kenton is right. A quick peek at Janet Potter's book confirms that the Ft Payne and the Bucyrus depots were both designed by Cincinnati architect Charles C. Taylor. Jim Dent Kenton Dickerson wrote: > > An interesting note is that the station in Bucyrus and the Alabama Great > Southern station in Ft. Payne, AL are almost exact copies of each other. > They were probably designed by the same architect. > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Jim Dent > Reply-To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net > To: RSHS List > Subject: (rshsdepot) Bucyrus, Ohio > Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:54:47 -0400 > > >From the EL List... > > > > > Good news!!! To those of us in Ohio anyway! I went to Bucyrus last > > weekend, after a brief stop in Marion to take a gander at Ac tower, but > > what I found out in Bucyrus was that the T&OC station may soon be under > > restoration! A committee has been formed and some other political papers > > are being shuffled around so stand buy and see what happens! Those who > > want to be kept up to date let me know and I'll pass on what I know when > > I know it, Im going back up there this weekend, I was born/raised in > > Bucyrus and still have family there, and I hope to take a few pics > > before much happens, although the building looks rather grim right now. > > One last note, Bucyrus was a RR dyeing town not too long ago, after the > > forming of CR the east-west tracks were hardly used, im guessing 4 > > trains a day, if that. But now its a busy place again, NS added a > > interchange track to go from Columbus north,,RR west?? to east onward to > > Crestline, its busy again now, hopefully I'll get to check it out better > > this summer, but it never again will be like it was when i was in school > > in Nevada, just west of Bucyrus, seeing all the different adsorbents > > into Conrail, those were the days, wish I knew than what I think I know > > now. Have a great day, Todd > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <13.1468e6cc.280eb178_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 04:59:36 EDT From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Communities reclaim passenger-rail stations and create new landmarks Back on track=20 Communities reclaim passenger-rail stations and create new landmarks Christian Science Monitor=20 4/18/01 =A0 As Amtrak train No. 171 pulls into Westerly, R.I., a most pleasing sight=20 comes into view: a good-as-new station that dates to 1912.=20 This is no time-machine fantasy. The once-derelict brick-and- concrete=20 facility has been restored to its original glory, a project celebrated with=20= a=20 black-tie "Function at the Junction" two years ago.=20 =A0 Westerly has something to crow about with this alluring Mediterranean-style=20 structure, but it's far from alone in seeing the potential in dilapidated an= d=20 sometimes-deserted railroad stations.=20 =A0 Take a far larger community like Tacoma, Wash., where Union Station remains=20 as visually impressive as it did in 1911, when it opened and was hailed as=20 the grandest building north of San Francisco.=20 =A0 The station was vacated in 1983 when Amtrak moved its operation east of=20 downtown. A Save the Station effort, however, eventually led to a $50 millio= n=20 face-lift and conversion into a federal courthouse. The rotunda, decorated=20 with the single largest exhibit of sculptured glass by acclaimed local artis= t=20 Dale Chihuly, is a tourist attraction sometimes used for weddings and trade=20 shows. The station has sparked a wave of urban renewal.=20 =A0 What Westerly and Tacoma have realized is the irreplaceable beauty and prime= =20 location of these landmarks.=20 =A0 "The train station was once the center of the community, and in a lot of=20 communities it represents some of the finest architecture that the city has=20 to offer," says Erich Strebe, director of planning and economic development=20 for the Great American Station Foundation.=20 =A0 The foundation, formed in 1996 and based in Las Vegas, N.M., helps to=20 facilitate community revitalization through new construction or conversion=20 and restoration of rail passenger stations.=20 =A0 "Train stations are something people can get their arms around," says Ellen=20 Taylor, director of station programs and planning for Amtrak, the National=20 Railroad Passenger Corp. "If I'm living in Paoli, Pa., I have a much more=20 realistic chance of trying to do something at my local station, even if it's= =20 on a very small scale, than I do trying to make a change at the Philadelphia= =20 International Airport."=20 =A0 Some remodeling projects, of course, are huge public efforts. Take Washingto= n=20 D.C.'s much-heralded makeover of Union Station, for example. Or in the=20 Midwest, where adaptive reuse has driven lavish restorations of big stations= =20 in St. Louis, now primarily a marketplace, and in Kansas City, where a=20 science center is the main tenant.=20 =A0 These are significant tourist attractions and landmarks. Yet such projects=20 are not uniformly successful.=20 =A0 Stations that attempted to cross over into the world of retail have faced=20 problems. Indianapolis and Cincinnati both failed at attempts to go that=20 route in the 1980s, when a bunch of stations were converted into festival=20 marketplaces and shopping centers with no transportation use. "What they=20 found is that you have to keep putting money into these stations," says Hank= =20 Dittmar, president and CEO of the Great American Station Foundation. "Retail= =20 use gets tired. You have to do something new to keep getting people there.=20 =A0 In Indianapolis, $50 million was spent to turn Union Station into a=20 marketplace, only to have its doors close in 1997. Today it's making a=20 comeback with a mix of tenants, including go-kart racing and a banquet=20 facility. A similar situation has occurred in Cincinnati, except the Art=20 Deco-style Union Terminal has reopened as the Cincinnati Museum Center.=20 =A0 Stations are community assets=20 =A0 Rehabbed stations, regardless of their size, can benefit from even a modest=20 amount of passenger service.=20 =A0 "Transportation is an important part of keeping a steady flow of people=20 through the facilities," Mr. Dittmar says. But, he adds, it doesn't all have= =20 to be train travel. Local transit service counts too.=20 =A0 Just as in big cities, rehabbed stations in small towns can be just as=20 important as community assets, whether used for transportation or to house=20 museums, offices, restaurants, or shops.=20 =A0 In Westerly, the objective is twofold: to create an anchor for downtown=20 redevelopment and showcase an increasingly attractive mode of transportation= .=20 =A0 Raymond Lamont, the editor of the Westerly Sun, says the station serves as a= =20 gateway to the city of 25,000 people. "It's a beautiful, historic-looking=20 building on a modern transportation line," he says. "I think it shows=20 Westerly might be a community that offers the best of both worlds."=20 =A0 Stationmaster Bob Allard says that Amtrak now makes 12 to 14 stops a day on=20 its Boston-to-New York runs.=20 =A0 State Sen. Dennis Algiere, a major player in the station's conversion from=20 eyesore to repolished jewel, continues to watch over the facility.=20 =A0 When this reporter disembarked in Westerly, Mr. Algiere was busily checking=20 the lights in an underground passenger walkway with the stationmaster.=20 =A0 "People were just delighted to see the station restored," he says. "It's a=20 building that people recognize. Some remember relatives going off to war fro= m=20 here."=20 =A0 Passenger volume, the senator says, has increased at the station, but its=20 lobby can seem oddly quiet between trains.=20 =A0 Westerly sits on the Rhode Island-Connecticut border and is considered a=20 tourist-friendly community because of its nearby beaches and quaint, walkabl= e=20 downtown. The center is only a five- minute stroll from the station. Along=20 the way are signs of commercial renewal.=20 =A0 Facing the station, on Railway Avenue, a row of historic storefronts is bein= g=20 renovated. On the opposite corner, the stately Savoy Hotel awaits remodeling= =20 by the same developer who plans to revive the movie theater a block away.=20 =A0 What railroad stations offer, it's been said, is an "architecture of hope."=20 =A0 In Westerly, says Barbara Blycker, executive director of the Westerly=20 Pawcatuck Joint Development Task Force, the station is "a symbol of what the= =20 prosperous times were all about. And the restoration seems to signify that=20 the prosperous times are again available to us."=20 =A0 Overall, the project cost $3.5 million and represents a partnership among th= e=20 town, Amtrak, and the Rhode Island Department of Transportation, which=20 actually owns the station.=20 =A0 Where the money comes from=20 =A0 One of the reasons Westerly and other smaller communities are willing to=20 consider such a project is because of federal monies available through the=20 1991 Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act. The bill was designed= =20 to encourage development of nonhighway travel, and includes a pool of money=20 for initiatives such as station restoration.=20 =A0 A federal grant may pay 80 percent of the cost and state governments another= =20 10 percent, says Mr. Strebe of the Great American Station Foundation. "So if= =20 you, as a community, can put up $100,000 to get a $1 million restoration of=20= a=20 building done," he says, "well, it makes a lot of sense. It's a great thing=20 to do."=20 =A0 This, he believes, is a major incentive at the moment, and probably a needed= =20 one given the crazy-quilt of station ownership.=20 =A0 One might think that Amtrak, which began in 1971, would own many of the=20 stations. In fact, Amtrak's Ellen Taylor estimates the company actually owns= =20 less than 10 percent of approximately 500 passenger stations it services,=20 with about 20 percent owned by freight railroads, about 11 percent by cities= ,=20 and the rest in the hands of private owners, commuter railroads, or state=20 agencies.=20 =A0 At one time there were about 80,000 operating stations of various kinds in=20 the United States. However, after "two-thirds of a century of relentless=20 neglect," only 12,000 to 20,000 have survived, according to a report, "The=20 Second Heyday of The Great American Railway Station: Seed Pearls of the 21st= =20 Century," written by Tony Hiss and published by Amtrak.=20 =A0 Mr. Hiss describes stations as the front doors of communities. After World=20 War II, railway travel dwindled as the Interstate Highway System took shape.= =20 =A0 Communities that still want to upgrade stations on less-well- traveled lines= =20 face an uphill battle. Ask the townsfolk of Marshall, Texas.=20 =A0 "One of the motivations for redoing our station was that passengers had no=20 good place to wait; they had to stand outside in the heat and cold," says=20 Mayor Audrey Kariel. An upgraded station was also viewed as important in=20 efforts to revitalize the town square and commercial district.=20 =A0 The restoration project took nearly a decade and posed "one obstacle after=20 another," says Mrs. Kariel, including a decision by Amtrak to eliminate the=20 Texas Eagle line that runs through Marshall. She and others formed a=20 coalition that fought the decision and saved the service.=20 =A0 "Now the Texas Eagle is alive and well and leading Amtrak in revenue and=20 ridership increases," says the mayor.=20 =A0 Strebe talks about how the buildings once drew people of all social classes=20 and still retain that potential.=20 =A0 "People feel a sense of community about a train station that they might not=20 feel about anywhere else in town," he observes.=20 =A0 The road to train-station renovation can be rocky=20 =A0 Trying to salvage a historic train station can be immensely frustrating.=20 =A0 Just ask Teresa Zielinski, who has reached an impasse, if not a dead end, in= =20 her efforts to save the brick station in Wilmington, Ill.=20 =A0 "It's very emotionally draining," she says disconsolately.=20 =A0 Ms. Zielinski sees what other small towns have done to preserve their=20 heritage and worries that Wilmington, despite its numerous antique shops, is= =20 going to lose an architectural treasure.=20 =A0 "This is not just a little wooden depot," she says. "It's all brick, with al= l=20 the gingerbread. It's very Victorian."=20 =A0 If the station, built in 1869, goes, Zielinski says, the town will have=20 little more than the old Eagle Hotel and pictures to remember the past.=20 =A0 When a city worker found Union Pacific making plans to raze the station in=20 1997, people looked to Zielinski to mount a save-the- station effort. A lega= l=20 assistant to a defense attorney and a member of the local historical society= ,=20 she helped establish the Wilmington Depot Association.=20 =A0 Union Pacific, which has no use for the station or the liability associated=20 with it, donated it to a neighboring business owner, who in turn gave it to=20 the association. The company, however, wants it removed from the property.=20 =A0 If the station were wooden, as many are in towns of this size (population:=20 5,200), moving it would be a big but not necessarily complicated job.=20 =A0 A brick station is more difficult. Because the structure could crumble en=20 route, movers would have to build a wooden frame inside and out to hold the=20 building together, and even then the chances for the station surviving a=20 short move are estimated at 50-50.=20 =A0 "I can't risk moving it two or three miles," says Zielinski, who has receive= d=20 a $50,000 bid to do the job. "I wouldn't want to move it a mile or two out o= f=20 town anyway. It needs to be by the tracks."=20 =A0 The logical location, she believes, is a deserted lot across from her house=20 and only two blocks from station's current location. Her neighbors, however,= =20 strongly object, citing concerns that contaminants (lead paint and asbestos)= =20 would become airborne during the move. Furthermore, gas tanks on the vacant=20 lot would first have to be removed and the ground cleaned.=20 =A0 Zielinski says if she could find a way to address these problems, the=20 community would be supportive of the plan to convert the rehabbed station=20 into a railroad museum.=20 =A0 Even if Union Pacific helped foot part of the moving bill, though, Zielinski= =20 says there would be no money left to restore the station. Just ensuring it=20 wouldn't become an eyesore while awaiting renovations could require a grant.= =20 =A0 Zielinski's greatest worry is that all the money raised for saving the=20 station might have to go to demolition.=20 =A0 "I'm just kind of sitting and waiting," she says, hoping no one forces her=20 hand. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #44 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003301c0c889$a98c68c0$4868afce_@_paul> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:31:49 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Canarsie station flowered trolley loop Go to = http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dcache:www.canarsiecourier.com/News/2001/= 0125/OtherNews/27.html++%22Dexter+Park%22+-Boston+-Brookline&hl=3Den and = if you can somehow translate the grammar of the first sentence you will = understand where this flowered trolley loop in Canarsie was ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #45 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003301c0c9dc$fa5a8bc0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:00:49 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Sacremento, CA -From the Sacramento Bee... City hopes to get on track with compromise plan for depot Mike Mccarthy A new "compromise" plan is beginning to emerge in the debate over how to design an intermodal transit station at Sacramento's downtown railyard. City officials and consultants this week issued a more detailed version of an idea they first suggested at a March 27 City Council meeting. The idea calls for all the existing tracks to be moved north to near the old railroad shops -- about 200 yards from the existing track layout. The old depot would remain the center of passenger activity by keeping the ticketing, passenger amenities and transit offices there. "It's the right idea," said City Councilman Steve Cohn, who, along with Mayor Heather Fargo, is taking the lead in talks between factions. "I feel very strongly it's the way we're going to accomplish all three objectives. It works for transportation. It preserves the old depot's principal functions. And it is a tremendous opportunity for economic development." Planning for a new station downtown has been tougher than many expected. Community activists who want the depot to remain the focus of passenger activity are fighting a proposal by transit providers that reduces the old depot's role. Until now, there have been two plans under consideration: One plan is proposed by a coalition of transportation interests including Union Pacific Railroad Co., which owns the property, and Amtrak, which uses the depot. The group, called the Sacramento Intermodal Transportation Alliance (SITA), proposes moving the tracks north, very close to the consultants' recommended site. The depot's passenger activity would shift to a new facility near the tracks and the historic building would probably be used for bus passengers and as an entryway to the new train station. Preservationists, called Save Our Rail Depot (SORD), propose moving the freight tracks to the shops area where SITA wants them, but leaving the passenger tracks close to the old depot. The old depot would become the center of a new complex catering to passengers. Both sides have detailed arguments. Basically, however, SITA says its plan is more efficient for rail users, while SORD says its design ensures that the depot will be preserved by keeping it the center of activity near downtown. The emerging city plan leans toward the SITA concept, yet makes a strong gesture toward keeping the depot as a passenger center. "It's the best compromise we can come up with," Cohn said. He expects the plan to be the centerpiece of talks between SORD and SITA that could begin within a week. "I don't want to overstate that there's a settlement yet," Cohn said. "There's a potential for settlement." Fargo hasn't made up her mind yet. "The mayor has looked at the plan and wants to discuss it," said Chuck Dalldorf, her spokesman. "She doesn't want to decide till she meets with the representatives. From her standpoint, it's still open at this point." "It's a good starting point," said Roy Brewer, an attorney working for Union Pacific. "I think we need to determine and decide how many passenger-related functions can remain in the depot." One sticking point could be baggage handling, which needs to be near the tracks, he said. "I say nix on it," said Kay Knepprath, SORD's spokeswoman. The compromise plan not only ignores the depot's potential but puts the rails farther from the thousands of workers in the central business district, making the future station even less feasible, she said. "All the action would be out by the platforms on the tracks," she said. "If you travel by train, that's where you'd go and you'd never have to go near the depot." The city consultants' plan also calls for the depot to be remodeled as the gateway to the intermodal area. It calls for 33 acres next to the station to be developed similarly to Union Pacific's idea for the land. The city plan calls for 1.77 million square feet of offices, 610 apartments and a 300-room inn. The plan also extends the downtown street "grid" into the railyard, with 5th Street going into the intermodal station to allow access by buses and automobiles. City consultants have noted that one problem with SORD's idea is that if the tracks are not all moved, one or more streets must be tunneled under the tracks to get traffic into the station area. That is an expensive proposition that moving the tracks would negate. Perhaps the plan should be seen as a "catalyst" for talks, rather than as a proposal carved in stone, said Paul Blumberg, a planner with the city's Economic Development Department. The depot may not be able to keep all of the ticketing functions, Blumberg noted. Increasingly, train stations are selling tickets on the Web or from machines. "Our consultants say that in the future, a lot of riders may not buy tickets at stations," he said. Fargo aims to hold a first meeting among the interested parties within the next week, Dalldorf said. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003901c0c9de$36d62360$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:09:40 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Fort Worth, TX -From the Trains News Wire... Fort Worth officials like T&P renovation plans, but not its price tag City officials in Fort Worth, where developers want to turn the Texas & Pacific Terminal building into a railroad-themed luxury hotel, said this week that they support the concept but have concerns over the $50 million cost of the project. The developers want the city to create a special authority that would help finance the project, The Star Telegram of Fort Worth reported. The developers, who announced the project in September, said they would invest $10 million in the hotel. The authority would assume the rest of the debt through tax-free bonds. Plans call for the art deco train station and office tower to be transformed into a four-star hotel. It would feature between 290 and 330 rooms, an upscale diner and even a cosmetically restored 19th century steam locomotive that has been buried in Village Creek in Arlington, Texas, since it derailed in 1885. Guests also would be able to stay in rooms in one of a dozen 1930’s vintage sleeper cars. Wyndham Hotels & Resorts has expressed an interest in operating the hotel, the newspaper reported. The hotel, if approved, could open in late 2002 or early 2003. The T&P terminal closed in 1969. Until last year, the nine floors above the lobby were occupied by state offices. The terminal is expected to see rail service again once Trinity Railway Express commuter trains begin serving Fort Worth in fall 2001. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <021b01c0c9e3$977106e0$7e01a8c0_@_0018982498> References: <003301c0c9dc$fa5a8bc0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:48:08 -0700 From: "Eric Miller" Subject: (rshsdepot) AMTMA Web SIte Have You Visited the Alto Model Train Museum Association (AMTMA) Web Site Lately? Visit today and check out our new look, plus… Find out about upcoming events and activities…. Keep up to date on our fundraising efforts to raise enough money to establish a toy train museum in Altoona… Send an electronic postcard from Altoona… Find unique items in our store... Find out how you can join the AMTMA! CLICK HERE: http://www.trainweb.org/altoonatrain ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <025001c0c9e5$eda23be0$7e01a8c0_@_0018982498> References: <003901c0c9de$36d62360$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:04:51 -0700 From: "Eric Miller" Subject: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the thumbnail image(s) for the listed filename(s). http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/listthumb.cgi?/lists/rshsdepot-photo/rshsdepot-04-20-01 rs.gif (image/gif, 80912 bytes) gct.gif (image/gif, 122241 bytes) sf.gif (image/gif, 73471 bytes) charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2002 Pennsylvania Train Station Calendar You won't spend a day without seeing one of Pennsylvania's great train = stations with the 2002 Great Train Stations of Pennsylvania Calendar. = The 21st Century has arrived on track twelve. The wall calendar contains = twelve large glossy pictures of train stations in Pennsylvania. Make = sure you don't miss it by ordering your calendar in advance. Send check = or money order for $15.99 (includes shipping and handling) to AMTMA, RD = #5 Box 1031 Altoona, PA 16602. A portion of proceeds benefits the Alto = Model Train Museum Association. Ask about calendar advertising = opportunities! Send email to amtma_@_yahoo.com. Grand Central Terminal Postcards=20 =20 Celebrate the rebirth of America's greatest railroad terminal with a set = of Grand Central Terminal postcards! 5 cards, $2.99 10 Cards, $4.99 25 cards, $8.99 Please add $1.50 shipping and handling. Send to AMTMA Postcard Offer, RD = #5 Box 1031, Altoona, PA 16601. Make checks payable to AMTMA, Inc. =20 2002 American Train Station Calendar =20 You won't spend a day without seeing one of America's great train = stations with the 2002 Great Train Stations of North America Calendar. = The 21st Century has arrived on track twelve. The wall calendar contains = twelve glossy pictures of train stations in North America. Make sure you = don't miss it by ordering your calendar in advance. Send check or money = order for $15.99 (includes shipping and handling) to AMTMA, RD #5 Box = 1031 Altoona, PA 16602. A portion of proceeds benefits the Alto Model = Train Museum Association. Ask about calendar advertising opportunities! = Send email to amtma_@_yahoo.com. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006001c0ca2b$8b7e7960$3767afce_@_paul> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 02:23:08 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania I never realized san francisco was in Pennsylvania does it have one of those cool inclined railways?? I was in this SP station...darn shame they demolished it... ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001701c0ca3a$16372300$7e01a8c0_@_0018982498> References: <006001c0ca2b$8b7e7960$3767afce_@_paul> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 01:07:19 -0700 From: "Eric Miller" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania that's on the American Train Station Calendar. I never saw it... sad, yes. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul S. Luchter To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:23 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania > I never realized san francisco was in Pennsylvania does it have one of those > cool inclined railways?? > > I was in this SP station...darn shame they demolished it... > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #46 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000f01c0ca8a$b4715e00$7e01a8c0_@_0018982498> References: <006001c0ca2b$8b7e7960$3767afce_@_paul> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:43:21 -0700 From: "Eric Miller" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania Th San Francisco sation is included in the American Train Station Calendar, not PA. LA has an inclined railway... - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul S. Luchter To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:23 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania > I never realized san francisco was in Pennsylvania does it have one of those > cool inclined railways?? > > I was in this SP station...darn shame they demolished it... > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001d01c0caae$5ed96680$3469afce_@_paul> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:59:40 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania I was kidding because in PA there are a lot of inclines and SF is very hilly... ..in some ways the cable car is sort of an inclined railway....I am not sure if SF ever had a true type of inclined railway-ratchet or cable....maybe by the Cliff House near where the Camera Obscura is??? Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Eric Miller To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Saturday, April 21, 2001 1:20 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania >Th San Francisco sation is included in the American Train Station Calendar, >not PA. LA has an inclined railway... >----- Original Message ----- >From: Paul S. Luchter >To: >Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:23 PM >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania > > >> I never realized san francisco was in Pennsylvania does it have one of >those >> cool inclined railways?? >> >> I was in this SP station...darn shame they demolished it... >> > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001801c0cab5$97eda880$7e01a8c0_@_0018982498> References: <001d01c0caae$5ed96680$3469afce_@_paul> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 15:51:21 -0700 From: "Eric Miller" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania My resident historian here says no, San Francisco never had an inclined railway. There could have possibly been one by the sutro baths (cliff house), but short-lived if there ever was. Eric - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul S. Luchter To: Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 2:59 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania > I was kidding because in PA there are a lot of inclines and SF is very > hilly... > ..in some ways the cable car is sort of an inclined railway....I am not sure > if SF ever had a true type of inclined railway-ratchet or cable....maybe by > the Cliff House near where the Camera Obscura is??? > Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Miller > To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net > Date: Saturday, April 21, 2001 1:20 PM > Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania > > > >Th San Francisco sation is included in the American Train Station Calendar, > >not PA. LA has an inclined railway... > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Paul S. Luchter > >To: > >Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:23 PM > >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Great Train Stations Of Pennsylvania > > > > > >> I never realized san francisco was in Pennsylvania does it have one of > >those > >> cool inclined railways?? > >> > >> I was in this SP station...darn shame they demolished it... > >> > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <010001c0cae9$04da9b00$3469afce_@_paul> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:59:17 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) BRT Els abandons steam 11/1/1904 . . . NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the thumbnail image(s) for the listed filename(s). http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/listthumb.cgi?/lists/rshsdepot-photo/rshsdepot-04-22-01 BRTXSteam.jpg (image/jpeg, 108920 bytes) charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An auspicious day in New York, the Bridge Local, the streetcar over the = new Williamsburg bridge inaugurates and the BRT Elevated trains go all = electric for the first time. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #47 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <29.13cae769.2814e086_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:33:58 EDT From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Boise, Idaho Depot rings in 76th Boise Depot rings in 76th Train fans hope to see Amtrak service soon =A0 By Wayne Hoffman The Idaho Statesman=A0=20 Train lovers and fans of the Boise Depot celebrated the building's 76th=20 anniversary Saturday hoping another year doesn't go by before an Amtrak trai= n=20 rolls through.=20 =A0 The city marked the depot's anniversary with an open house featuring elevato= r=20 rides up the depot's bell tower, displays of train cars and model railroads.= =20 =A0 But as young and old gathered to marvel at train memorabilia and listen to=20 the whistle of a model steam engine, train enthusiasts murmured that they=20 want no delay in Amtrak's return to Southern Idaho.=20 =A0 "We'd like to see the trains come back through," Bill Blitman of Boise said.= =20 =A0 "And we'd like to take our grandchildren," wife Elaine Blitman chimed in.=20 =A0 Six-year-old Max Blitman said, "I like to see all the things out the window"= =20 as the train speeds along the tracks.=20 =A0 Amtrak stopped coming to the city in May 1997. U.S. Sen. Mike Crapo has been= =20 working on efforts to bring Amtrak back through Idaho, but funding has been=20= a=20 major stumbling block for the Idaho Republican. Amtrak must at least break=20 even if a Boise to Portland line is to be restored.=20 =A0 A task force set up by Crapo and Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, found that the=20 rail service would wind up $5 million short annually, even if freight cars=20 were added to the mix.=20 =A0 Last month, Crapo said he would try to get money to restart the route by=20 amending a bill that would give Amtrak $12 billion in tax credit financing.=20 =A0 Betty Gilmon of Chehalis, Wash., said she would love to be able to visit her= =20 sister, Dorris Rogers of Boise, on Amtrak.=20 =A0 "I enjoy coming over on it. I'll probably do it again," Gilmon said as she=20 admired the Boise skyline from the depot's tower.=20 =A0 Ralph Johnston of Boise hasn't given up on seeing rail service link Boise to= =20 Portland, Salt Lake City and Denver again.=20 =A0 He drew depot guests to his petition Saturday, reminisced about train travel= =20 through the Northwest and collected hundreds of signatures. He has 1,200=20 names on a petition so far, he said.=20 =A0 Johnston said he has "real cautious optimism" the area's train tracks will=20 rumble again beneath the wheels of an Amtrak train. (see original article with pictures at:=20 http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/daily/20010422/LocalNews/106734.shtml) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008e01c0cb9a$56c7a320$4966afce_@_paul> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:08:41 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Boise, Idaho Depot rings in 76th Yeah, but you should have gone back on first day of DOT/MTA trains...I guess if you couldn't be there at beginning of NH you couldn't do the complete inaugural set! - -----Original Message----- From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Sunday, April 22, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Boise, Idaho Depot rings in 76th >Boise Depot rings in 76th >Train fans hope to see Amtrak service soon >=A0 >By Wayne Hoffman >The Idaho Statesman=A0=20 > >Train lovers and fans of the Boise Depot celebrated the building's 76th=20 >anniversary Saturday hoping another year doesn't go by before an Amtrak trai= >n=20 >rolls through.=20 >=A0 >The city marked the depot's anniversary with an open house featuring elevato= >r=20 >rides up the depot's bell tower, displays of train cars and model railroads.= >=20 >=A0 >But as young and old gathered to marvel at train memorabilia and listen to=20 >the whistle of a model steam engine, train enthusiasts murmured that they=20 >want no delay in Amtrak's return to Southern Idaho.=20 >=A0 >"We'd like to see the trains come back through," Bill Blitman of Boise said.= >=20 >=A0 >"And we'd like to take our grandchildren," wife Elaine Blitman chimed in.=20 >=A0 >Six-year-old Max Blitman said, "I like to see all the things out the window"= >=20 >as the train speeds along the tracks.=20 >=A0 >Amtrak stopped coming to the city in May 1997. U.S. Sen. Mike Crapo has been= >=20 >working on efforts to bring Amtrak back through Idaho, but funding has been=20= >a=20 >major stumbling block for the Idaho Republican. Amtrak must at least break=20 >even if a Boise to Portland line is to be restored.=20 >=A0 >A task force set up by Crapo and Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, found that the=20 >rail service would wind up $5 million short annually, even if freight cars=20 >were added to the mix.=20 >=A0 >Last month, Crapo said he would try to get money to restart the route by=20 >amending a bill that would give Amtrak $12 billion in tax credit financing.=20 >=A0 >Betty Gilmon of Chehalis, Wash., said she would love to be able to visit her= >=20 >sister, Dorris Rogers of Boise, on Amtrak.=20 >=A0 >"I enjoy coming over on it. I'll probably do it again," Gilmon said as she=20 >admired the Boise skyline from the depot's tower.=20 >=A0 >Ralph Johnston of Boise hasn't given up on seeing rail service link Boise to= >=20 >Portland, Salt Lake City and Denver again.=20 >=A0 >He drew depot guests to his petition Saturday, reminisced about train travel= >=20 >through the Northwest and collected hundreds of signatures. He has 1,200=20 >names on a petition so far, he said.=20 >=A0 >Johnston said he has "real cautious optimism" the area's train tracks will=20 >rumble again beneath the wheels of an Amtrak train. > >(see original article with pictures at:=20 >http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/daily/20010422/LocalNews/106734.shtml) > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <009701c0cb9e$6a4741e0$4966afce_@_paul> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:37:46 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) neat 1917 map . . . http://www.sunsite.ualberta.ca/pub/Digital_Collections/Mirror/PCL-Map-Col= lection/historical/New_York_City_1917.jpg Notice all the electric streetcars, this was the height on LI of = traction of the era ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001501c0cbb7$2feba540$0c4bc0d8_@_paul> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 01:35:17 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Boise, Idaho Depot rings in 76th I like the rumbling Amtrak wheels passage at the end....What is the meaning of the =20s??? Paul - -----Original Message----- From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Sunday, April 22, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Boise, Idaho Depot rings in 76th >Boise Depot rings in 76th >Train fans hope to see Amtrak service soon >=A0 >By Wayne Hoffman >The Idaho Statesman=A0=20 > >Train lovers and fans of the Boise Depot celebrated the building's 76th=20 >anniversary Saturday hoping another year doesn't go by before an Amtrak trai= >n=20 >rolls through.=20 >=A0 >The city marked the depot's anniversary with an open house featuring elevato= >r=20 >rides up the depot's bell tower, displays of train cars and model railroads.= >=20 >=A0 >But as young and old gathered to marvel at train memorabilia and listen to=20 >the whistle of a model steam engine, train enthusiasts murmured that they=20 >want no delay in Amtrak's return to Southern Idaho.=20 >=A0 >"We'd like to see the trains come back through," Bill Blitman of Boise said.= >=20 >=A0 >"And we'd like to take our grandchildren," wife Elaine Blitman chimed in.=20 >=A0 >Six-year-old Max Blitman said, "I like to see all the things out the window"= >=20 >as the train speeds along the tracks.=20 >=A0 >Amtrak stopped coming to the city in May 1997. U.S. Sen. Mike Crapo has been= >=20 >working on efforts to bring Amtrak back through Idaho, but funding has been=20= >a=20 >major stumbling block for the Idaho Republican. Amtrak must at least break=20 >even if a Boise to Portland line is to be restored.=20 >=A0 >A task force set up by Crapo and Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, found that the=20 >rail service would wind up $5 million short annually, even if freight cars=20 >were added to the mix.=20 >=A0 >Last month, Crapo said he would try to get money to restart the route by=20 >amending a bill that would give Amtrak $12 billion in tax credit financing.=20 >=A0 >Betty Gilmon of Chehalis, Wash., said she would love to be able to visit her= >=20 >sister, Dorris Rogers of Boise, on Amtrak.=20 >=A0 >"I enjoy coming over on it. I'll probably do it again," Gilmon said as she=20 >admired the Boise skyline from the depot's tower.=20 >=A0 >Ralph Johnston of Boise hasn't given up on seeing rail service link Boise to= >=20 >Portland, Salt Lake City and Denver again.=20 >=A0 >He drew depot guests to his petition Saturday, reminisced about train travel= >=20 >through the Northwest and collected hundreds of signatures. He has 1,200=20 >names on a petition so far, he said.=20 >=A0 >Johnston said he has "real cautious optimism" the area's train tracks will=20 >rumble again beneath the wheels of an Amtrak train. > >(see original article with pictures at:=20 >http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/daily/20010422/LocalNews/106734.shtml) > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001801c0cbb8$07673840$0c4bc0d8_@_paul> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 01:41:19 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Boise, Idaho Depot rings in 76th When the majority wants something but their elected representatives pass laws that prevent this will of the people, is this Democracy? Can we go back through the mirror yet? Paul - -----Original Message----- From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Sunday, April 22, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Boise, Idaho Depot rings in 76th >Boise Depot rings in 76th >Train fans hope to see Amtrak service soon >=A0 >By Wayne Hoffman >The Idaho Statesman=A0=20 > >Train lovers and fans of the Boise Depot celebrated the building's 76th=20 >anniversary Saturday hoping another year doesn't go by before an Amtrak trai= >n=20 >rolls through.=20 >=A0 >The city marked the depot's anniversary with an open house featuring elevato= >r=20 >rides up the depot's bell tower, displays of train cars and model railroads.= >=20 >=A0 >But as young and old gathered to marvel at train memorabilia and listen to=20 >the whistle of a model steam engine, train enthusiasts murmured that they=20 >want no delay in Amtrak's return to Southern Idaho.=20 >=A0 >"We'd like to see the trains come back through," Bill Blitman of Boise said.= >=20 >=A0 >"And we'd like to take our grandchildren," wife Elaine Blitman chimed in.=20 >=A0 >Six-year-old Max Blitman said, "I like to see all the things out the window"= >=20 >as the train speeds along the tracks.=20 >=A0 >Amtrak stopped coming to the city in May 1997. U.S. Sen. Mike Crapo has been= >=20 >working on efforts to bring Amtrak back through Idaho, but funding has been=20= >a=20 >major stumbling block for the Idaho Republican. Amtrak must at least break=20 >even if a Boise to Portland line is to be restored.=20 >=A0 >A task force set up by Crapo and Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, found that the=20 >rail service would wind up $5 million short annually, even if freight cars=20 >were added to the mix.=20 >=A0 >Last month, Crapo said he would try to get money to restart the route by=20 >amending a bill that would give Amtrak $12 billion in tax credit financing.=20 >=A0 >Betty Gilmon of Chehalis, Wash., said she would love to be able to visit her= >=20 >sister, Dorris Rogers of Boise, on Amtrak.=20 >=A0 >"I enjoy coming over on it. I'll probably do it again," Gilmon said as she=20 >admired the Boise skyline from the depot's tower.=20 >=A0 >Ralph Johnston of Boise hasn't given up on seeing rail service link Boise to= >=20 >Portland, Salt Lake City and Denver again.=20 >=A0 >He drew depot guests to his petition Saturday, reminisced about train travel= >=20 >through the Northwest and collected hundreds of signatures. He has 1,200=20 >names on a petition so far, he said.=20 >=A0 >Johnston said he has "real cautious optimism" the area's train tracks will=20 >rumble again beneath the wheels of an Amtrak train. > >(see original article with pictures at:=20 >http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/daily/20010422/LocalNews/106734.shtml) > > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #48 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006901c0cc1f$6d565200$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:01:31 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) MIDWEST RAILROAD FESTIVALS HAVE A ONE-TRACK MIND -From the Chicago Tribune.... ALL, ABOARD! MIDWEST RAILROAD FESTIVALS HAVE A ONE-TRACK MIND By Don Davenport Special to the Tribune April 22, 2001 MONROE, Wis. -- Although the railroads' golden age chugged off into the sunset long ago, Americans have never quite fallen out of love with trains. Here's a handful of Midwest railroad festivals where you can rekindle the romance, if only for a few hours. Depot Days of Green County, Wis. April 28-29 Events will be held in three Green County communities, each celebrating its individual railroad heritage. - - In Monroe, passenger train excursions on a Wisconsin & Southern streamliner will highlight memories of the Milwaukee Road and Illinois Central railroads. Trains will depart Monroe on a 16-mile round trip journey on the hour Saturday (9 a.m.-4 p.m.) and Sunday (10 a.m.-4 p.m.). Tickets are $13 adults, $6 ages 3-12. Der Green County Speisewagen, a special excursion train serving samples of locally made sausages, cheeses, beef, pork, chocolate and other delights, will run from Monroe to Brodhead (30 miles round trip) at 5:30 p.m. Saturday. That fare is $38 per person. Monroe's former Milwaukee Road depot, now a visitor centers and cheesemaking museum, will be open for tours both days. - - The historic Brodhead Depot Museum (15 miles east of Monroe), with its collection of local history and railroad memorabilia, will be open throughout the weekend. Tours of a 1973 Soo Line caboose are available. - - In Brooklyn, 25 miles northeast of Monroe, speeder car rides (track workers' motor cars) will be offered starting at 10 a.m. both days. The fare is $6 for adults, $3 age 12 and under. Brooklyn also features model railroad displays, a Civil War encampment and a parade at 1 p.m. Sunday. Depot Days buttons ($3) admit visitors to the main festival sites. For train ticket information: 608-897-8411. For general Depot Days information: 888-222-9211; www.greencounty.org. Monroe is about 120 miles northwest of Chicago. Railroad Days, North Vernon, Ind. June 8-10 This annual festival celebrates a long tradition of railroading in Jennings County, which is continued by CSX Transportation and the Madison Railroad, a short line running between North Vernon and Madison, Ind. Festival highlights include motor railcar rides (all day Saturday, donations accepted), a rail-spike-driving contest (7 p.m. Saturday) and a big parade on Sunday (2 p.m.). Also appearing will be the world's largest portable model railroad, featuring seven or more "O" gauge trains operating on 400 feet of track; admission is $2 per person. There will be craft and food booths, horse and buggy rides, live entertainment and other events. Festival hours are noon-10 p.m. Friday, 9 a.m.-10 p.m. Saturday, 11 a.m.-5 p.m. Sunday. Information: 812-522-8617. North Vernon is about 250 miles southeast of Chicago. Railroad Crossing Days, Mendota, Ill. June 16-17 Mendota is rich in railroad heritage having been served in years past by the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy, Illinois Central, and Milwaukee Road lines. Burlington Northern-Santa Fe freights still rumble through town, and Amtrak passenger trains make four stops daily. Festival highlights include rides on the Gandy Dancer Express (another name for track workers' motor cars) and tours of the Mendota Union Depot Museum, housed in the city's historic railroad depot. The museum showcases a detailed model railroad layout of Mendota's rail yards in the 1930s and 1940s, a replica of a 1940s depot telegraph office and memorabilia from the lines that served Mendota. On the grounds are a 1923 steam locomotive and a caboose built in 1911, which will be open for tours. There will also be demonstrations by the Morse code Telegrapher's Club, a railroad memorabilia swap meet and an antique farm implement display (Sunday only). Festival hours are 9 a.m.-5 p.m. both days. Museum admission is $2 adults, $1 high school age and younger. Gandy Dancer Express rides require a $1 donation. Information: 815-539-3373 (Monday, Wednesday or Friday, 8-11 a.m.); www.mendotamuseums.org/ Mendota is about 90 miles west of Chicago. Railroad Days Festival, Galesburg, Ill. June 23-24 The Midwest's premier railroad festival celebrates its 24th year with displays of railroad equipment, a model railroad show, rail yard tours, a downtown street fair and dozens of other events. Burlington Northern-Santa Fe railroad equipment will be on exhibit at the Amtrak Depot (225 S. Seminary St.) from 9 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. on Saturday and Sunday. Some choice locomotives will be displayed, along with a huge rotary snowplow and track maintenance equipment. Rail excursion tours of Galesburg's Burlington Northern-Santa Fe rail yards make frequent departures from the Amtrak Depot on Saturday and Sunday from 9:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. Admission is free, and boarding is on a first-come, first-served basis. Not surprisingly, the lines are long. The Galesburg Railroad Museum (423 Mulberry St.) exhibits railroad memorabilia in a 1921 Pullman car. Also on display are a steam locomotive, a 1930 caboose, and a baggage express car and track maintenance equipment. An outstanding model train and railroadiana show will be held at Carl Sandburg College (2232 S. Lake Storey Rd.) Saturday (9 a.m.-5 p.m.) and Sunday (10 a.m.-4 p.m.). Admission, $4 adults, free under age 14. Information: 309-343-2485; www.visitgalesburg.com. Galesburg is about 200 miles southwest of Chicago. Pufferbilly Days, Boone, Iowa Sept. 6-9 Celebrating its 25th anniversary, Pufferbilly Days offers a host of events including train rides, model train exhibits, spike-driving contests and railroad heritage attractions. Daily train rides on the Boone & Scenic Valley Railroad depart from the excursion line's depot at 11th and Harrison Streets. The fare for the scenic, 15-mile round trip ride is $12 adults, $5 ages 3-12, under 3 free when held in arms. The line operates daily from Memorial Day weekend through Oct. 31. Railroad information: 800-626-0319. Railroad handcar races in head to head competition will be held at the B&SVRR Depot Friday evening and Saturday afternoon. The railroad spike-driving competition will be held at the depot Saturday afternoon. Other Saturday highlights are the Pufferbilly Parade, which steps off at 9:30 a.m., and an all-star rock-n-roll show at 7 p.m. On Sunday, an arts festival/craft fair takes place at McHose Park beginning at 10 a.m. A $5 souvenir button is required for admission to some events. Boone Chamber and Pufferbilly Days information: 800-266-6312; www.booneiowa.com. Boone is about 330 miles west of Chicago. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006f01c0cc1f$ba0adb20$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:03:40 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Port Allen, LA Depot celebrates trains in history By Westside bureau -From the Baton Rouge, LA Advocate... PORT ALLEN -- Port Allen's recently renovated depot, which includes a caboose donated by Union Pacific Railroad, will provide the setting for a series of train-related cultural events sponsored by the West Baton Rouge Parish Library this spring and summer. In May, the depot will begin hosting a series of free family events that celebrate the railroad and its history through the literature, music, films and regalia that commemorate it. Classic films featuring trains as central plot components will run the first Friday of every month at 8:30 p.m. from May through September. Lectures and a variety of performances are scheduled for the third Saturday of each of those months. Grants from the West Baton Rouge Tourism Commission, Entergy, the city of Port Allen and the West Baton Rouge Parish Library are funding the programs. The opening event on May 4 will be a family night at the movies featuring two films with the same title, "The Great Train Robbery," one made in 1903, the other in 1979. For further information, contact Judy Boyce at 225-242-7920. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <007501c0cc20$91434aa0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:09:41 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Louisiana, MO -From the Hannibal, MO Courier Post... Louisiana depot listed on 'most endangered' list STE. GENEVIEVE (AP) -- A preservationist group's new list of Missouri's ''most endangered'' historic places includes shuttered hotels, neglected church buildings and decaying railroad depots. The list of 10 structures or places ''highlights the variety of architectural resources we have in our state, because these are all historic and worth saving,'' Deb Sheals, president of the Missouri Alliance for Historic Preservation, said Sunday. Among the places listed is the Louisiana Chicago and Alton Railroad Depot, 801 South 3rd St., in Louisiana. Built in 1907 of red brick and stucco, the station once had segregated men's and women's seating sections. It ceased passenger operations in 1960. The current owner has put on a new roof to curb water damage from leaks, but because the building sits in a Mississippi River flood plain, the owner cannot get federal preservation assistance, the alliance said. Also included on the list were long-closed and deteriorating hotels in Cape Girardeau and St. Joseph; churches in Kansas City and Glasgow that are still used for worship but badly need major repairs; and strings of buildings in historic areas of Springfield and Jefferson City. The alliance released the list of ''most endangered'' places during its annual statewide preservation conference in Ste. Genevieve, a French Colonial settlement that showcases preserved structures dating to the late 1700s. The list is intended to draw attention to the specific sites and to the nonprofit alliance's statewide goal of preserving historic structures, Sheals said. The designation means the alliance ''is ready to help'' by providing expert assessments for restoration or new uses for some of the places on the list. The alliance could also put property listings on its Internet site, which might link sellers with buyers interested in historic preservation, Sheals said. ''They are all important properties and there is a wide variety on the list, and that reflects our view it doesn't have to be a major, multimillion-dollar property,'' she said. Places on the list are part of Missouri's cultural, religious and agricultural history. For example, the list includes the sprawling Grand Avenue Temple, a ''Mother Church of Methodism'' in Kansas City, and the smaller Campbell Chapel A.M.E. Church in Glasgow, founded by freed slaves in 1860. The St. Charles Hotel in St. Joseph and the Marquette Hotel in Cape Girardeau are reminders of mercantile prosperity. The Fine-Eiler Farm homestead, surrounded by unspoiled acreage in fast-developing south St. Louis County, may date to Missouri's statehood. Four neighboring residential properties near the Capitol in Jefferson City are eligible for the National Register of Historic Places, but demolition permits have been sought, the alliance said. The list doesn't rank the sites in a particular order, Sheals said, because ''historic architecture comes in many shapes and sizes.'' About 150 guests were registered for the alliance's weekend conference in Ste. Genevieve, which included workshops on preserving and restoring old buildings and tours of the city's historic sites. - ------ On the Net: Missouri Alliance for Historic Preservation: www.preservemo.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <007b01c0cc21$a4338200$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:17:22 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Worcester, MA -From Railpace... AMTRAK TO SERVICE WORCESTER UNION STATION: "Amtrak is on schedule to begin train service from Union Station by May 1, according to officials with the Worcester Redevelopment Authority, which runs the refurbished station," that according to an article in the April 5, 2001 edition of the Worcester Telegram & Gazette. The newspaper noted that "an Amtrak spokeswoman said that the company is optimistic that it will move into Union Station by the first week of May, as long as the construction of its office space and a baggage room are finished by then. She declined to comment on Amtrak's lease at Union Station." (Friends of Amtrak - posted 4/22) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <019601c0cc71$50645fa0$a545fd3f_@_0019873538> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:47:09 -0400 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: (rshsdepot) "Real" railroads in NY City Streets NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the thumbnail image(s) for the listed filename(s). http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/listthumb.cgi?/lists/rshsdepot-photo/rshsdepot-04-23-01 AveD14thSt.jpg (image/jpeg, 19403 bytes) charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Following on our thread several months ago about comings and goings of New York Central and predecessors in city streets south of 42nd Street, here's a photo of a plant under construction at Ave D and 14th Street around 1910 -- along one side (I can't tell if it's 14th St or Ave D) are what look like real class I RR freight cars. How would they have gotten there? Were there branches that far over from the NY&H line down 4th Avenue and Bowery? Were there once carfloats and float bridges onto the east side as there were so many onto the west side? Or . . . ? Thanks Steve Delibert ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005901c0cc7c$bfa44a00$0c4bc0d8_@_paul> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:09:24 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "Real" railroads in NY City Streets By 1910, the 4th Avenue line south of Grand Central is doubtful for how they got there...perhaps they were somehow transferred to the streetcar tracks, maybe onto the 14th Street line, or other line that crossed the rail on the west side...otherwise it might be lighted over and a temporary float bridge, since here is evidently a temporary siding... Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Steven Delibert To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Monday, April 23, 2001 11:47 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) "Real" railroads in NY City Streets >NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. >To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the thumbnail image(s) for the listed filename(s). >http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/listthumb.cgi?/lists/rshsdepot-photo/rshsdep ot-04-23-01 > >AveD14thSt.jpg (image/jpeg, 19403 bytes) > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Following on our thread several months ago about comings and goings of New >York Central and predecessors in city streets south of 42nd Street, here's a >photo of a plant under construction at Ave D and 14th Street around 1910 -- >along one side (I can't tell if it's 14th St or Ave D) are what look like >real class I RR freight cars. How would they have gotten there? Were there >branches that far over from the NY&H line down 4th Avenue and Bowery? Were >there once carfloats and float bridges onto the east side as there were so >many onto the west side? Or . . . ? >Thanks >Steve Delibert > ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #49 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005101c0cceb$b6ec6360$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:23:52 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Administrative As the RSHS Depot List has been successfully transferred from Yahoo! to lists.railfan.net, I will be closing the list on Yahoo! later today. Those of you who are still subscribed to that list may receive a message from Yahoo! that the rshsdepot_@_yahoogroups.com is closing. Please remember that only the Yahoo! list is closing, the rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net is still open and ready for your messages. Jim Dent List maintainer ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <015201c0ccef$af040460$7e01a8c0_@_0018982498> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:52:13 -0700 From: "Eric Miller" Subject: (rshsdepot) A Postcard For You! Send A Free Electronic Postcard! Stuck in Cleveland for a convention? Use the occasion to show off some = of America's great buildings and sites with a free postcard from = ecitypostcards.com. Just go to http://www.ecitypostcards.com, click on = the card you'd like to send and surprise a friend with an e-city = postcard.=20 We're working to provide an expanded site. Currently these ten cards are = available:=20 Lackawanna Station, Scranton Railroad Equipment, Altoona San Diego Municipal Building Printers Alley, Nashville Chinatown, Chicago Cathedral Building, Oakland Monument Square, Baltimore Stone Church, Cleveland Pacific Stock Exchange, San Francisco Atlas, New York http://www.ecitypostcards.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005f01c0ccec$e13b9360$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:32:12 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Corinth, MS -From the North Mississippi Daily Journal... Tuesday, April 24, 2001 Northeast Miss. Museum gets grant for depot project By Jane Clark Summers Daily Journal Corinth Bureau CORINTH - The Northeast Mississippi Museum has been awarded a $6,370 grant -From the Federal Institute of Museum and Library Services. The $480 match required to receive the funds will be provided by the Corinth Area Tourism and Promotion Council's 2000 Enhancement Preservation grant program. The IMLS grant was part of $819,290 awarded to 147 small museums throughout the nation. Museum director Kristy White said the grant money will be used to employ an architectural assessor and a preservation assessor. The architectural assessor will study conditions at the historic Corinth Depot which will become the new headquarters for the museum when renovations are complete. The assessor will report on work needed to prepare the depot for housing the museum and its collection, White said. The conservation assessor will look at the collection at the present museum location and will give advice on how to better preserve certain items, she said. The conservator will also lend advice on how best to move the collection when the time comes, White said. Both assessors, who are from Nashville, will be in Corinth in late August to do the work. During a two-day visit, the assessors will review the overall condition of the museum's collection, the physical storage and exhibition conditions as well as collection practices. "This is a wonderful opportunity for the museum," White said. "In anticipation for the move to the depot, the museum wants to make sure that everything in its power is done to ensure that the museum's collection is properly handled and that the depot will be ready to house the museum and its items." Conservation program The Conservation Assessment Program helps museums lay the groundwork for effective collections management. The assessment helps museums establish goals so their holdings can be preserved and made available to the public for years to come. The Federal Institute of Museum and Library Services grants are administered by Heritage Preservation. These grants support museums of all kinds, from art to zoos. "As a leader in preventative conservation, IMLS is dedicated to helping our nation's museums protect their collections," said Beverly Sheppard on behalf of the agency. According to a recent evaluation of the Conservation Assessment Program by Bosma and Associates International, these grants have had an impact on increasing conservation awareness nationwide, Sheppard said. "Additionally, 95 percent of the grant recipients report fulfilling some or most of the conservation assessment recommendations," she said. Helping the little guy The conservation program has helped about 2,000 small museums across the nation receive professional conservation and preservation assistance and move forward to improve the care of their collections and historic buildings, Sheppard said. Heritage Preservation's Larry Roger said, "As the Bosma evaluation demonstrated, without IMLS funding, many of these museums could not afford to get this essential conservation advice." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006501c0ccee$4fb4b6e0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:42:27 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Wharton, TX -From Railway Preservation News... The City of Wharton and a group of railroad buffs are looking into restoring the SP-TNO Depot there, built circa 1915. Information is being sought that will help bring the Depot back to it's original 1915 look. The interior was significantly altered sometime prior to 1953. Interior pictures are being sought prior to the lowering of the ceiling and addition of office walls. Any pictures, no mater how small, or old, could help make the restoration as complete and accurate as possible. The exterior of the station is in good, original condition, and plans call for restoring the roof to its original clay tile covering. Persons with relevant information are requested to contract the author at wloocke_@_fbtc.net. (William Loocke) Picture: http://www.rypn.org/Briefs/April2001/SP_Depot_Wharton.jpg ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006b01c0ccee$e5410420$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:46:38 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Railroad Preservation and ISTEA: Are You on Board? This year marks the tenth anniversary of the landmark overhaul of Federal surface transportation spending program known as ISTEA—the Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991. ISTEA and its 1998 reauthorization, TEA-21, represent the most radical overhaul of Federal surface transportation spending since the creation of the Interstate highway system during the Eisenhower administration. In a sharp break with past practices, which required states to spend every dollar they received from the Federal highway trust fund to build new roads, ISTEA allows states to use up to half their money for "flexible use" transit alternatives, including commuter rail, light rail, subways, bike trails, or nearly any other legitimate transportation purpose. The 1990s renaissance in rail-based mass transit, particularly light rail, was fueled largely by the flexible funding climate created by ISTEA and its successor, TEA-21. What does all this have to do with railway preservation? While highway and mass transit interests duke it out for the big multi-million dollar projects funded with ISTEA and TEA-21 money, a relatively little-noticed provision of these laws calls for 10% of the a state's total funding to be allocated to "Transportation Enhancements," defined as scenic easements, bicycle and pedestrian facilities, transit-related historic preservation, billboard control, and stormwater run-off control. Trivial though the enhancements program may be in the context of the total surface transportation appropriation, it amounts, quietly and without fanfare, to the single greatest program of Federal assistance to rail preservation in the history of our movement. Because ISTEA and TEA-21 enhancement programs are chosen competitively on a state-by-state basis, there is no single national record of the number of historical rail preservation projects undertaken with funding from this source. It's doubtful that anyone in our movement has ever sought to compile national figures on the total number of dollars or projects. Yet all anecdotal evidence suggests that the impact is substantial, and that it extends far beyond the organized rail preservation community of museums, tourist railroads, and NRHS chapters. For every high-profile grant conferred on a well-known rail preservation group (the $300,000 grant received by the Michigan State Trust for Rail Preservation for its 2-8-4 Berkshire Pere Marquette 1225 is a good example), ISTEA and TEA-21 have also funded dozens if not hundreds of depot and station restoration and adaptive reuse projects. Many of these projects have been undertaken by local historic preservationists and planners with little or no involvement from organized railroad preservationists per se. It's hard to overemphasize how widespread and diverse the rail preservation activities funded by ISTEA have become, and how far the impact of this legislation has extended beyond our community. As a case in point, let me offer you the former Pennsylvania Railroad depot in Snow Hill, MD. Worcester County, MD received funding from the ISTEA enhancement program in 1995 to renovate the old train station in Snow Hill and to establish a 10-mile section of rail trail on a long-disused and lifted PRR branch running between Snow Hill and Stockton (independent shortline Maryland and Delaware still offers rail freight service as far as Snow Hill itself). The stucco depot now serves as a general community center, with its exterior preserved largely as it was in railroad use, and its interior reconfigured as meeting spaces. To the best of my knowledge, this small project proceeded with out anything except the most informal input from local rail historians and enthusiasts. And yet, it represents a substantial contribution to saving the physical heritage of railroading in this small Eastern Shore community. For each project like this, I'm sure dozens of others could be located and identified. There are perhaps three conclusions we can draw from this story and others like it. First, ISTEA and its successor TEA-21 have had a tremendous impact on making funding available for small to mid-sized rail preservation projects. Second, as an organized community, rail preservationists have not taken as much advantage of this program as we can. Has your organization ever submitted an ISTEA or TEA-21 application, or supplied research support or expert testimony in behalf of one? If not, get involved! Even if your own preservation site cannot easily qualify for transportation enhancement funding, you can lend expert advice and counsel to other projects in your area which do, and which support the overall goal of rail preservation in your region. The third point is perhaps the hardest: as a community, we have had regrettably little impact on defending these programs and securing their future. To explain what I mean, contrast our activities with those of the Rails to Trails Movement. Rail preservationists have had an uneasy relationship with the trails movement, and our interests are not always aligned. Yet this community lobbied actively and effectively to preserve the Transportation Enhancements program when ISTEA was reauthorized as TEA-21 in 1998. I know of no corresponding national campaign on the rail preservation side. To the extent that we as preservationists benefit from TEA-21 enhancement funds, we owe it in no small part to our friends and sometimes competitors in the trails movement. TEA-21 is out there. The money is ours for the earning with good proposals-contact your state's Department of Transportation for applications and details. And the money is ours to keep and defend, or ignore and lose, when TEA-21 next comes up for reauthorization after Federal fiscal year 2003. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <007601c0ccf0$3314ea80$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:55:58 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Topeka, KS -From the Topeka, KS Capital-Journal... Steam train trip set to raise money for Great Overland Station project By MIKE HALL The Capital-Journal Northeast Kansans will get a chance to see the largest operating steam locomotive pulling a passenger train from Kansas City, Kan. to Topeka on June 23. Those willing to pay $125 or more can ride the train. The event is a fund-raiser for the Great Overland Station project to convert the former Union Pacific depot into a museum. The day also will include other festivities in historic North Topeka. UP's 3985 locomotive will pass through northeast Kansas en route back to its base in Cheyenne, Wyo., after attending an event in St. Louis for the National Railroad Historical Society. The train will pass through Kansas City, Kan., Edwardsville, Bonner Springs, Lawrence, Williamstown, Perry and Grantville before arriving in Topeka at 11:30 a.m. The locomotive is a "Challenger" type locomotive with a wheel arrangement of 4-6-6-4, indicating four lead wheels followed by two sets of six big driving wheels, followed by four more trailing wheels to help support the weight of the fire box. Alex Tice, director of community relations for UP, said the engine, built in 1943, is 121 feet long from the front of the engine to the rear of the tender. It weighs 1 million pounds. Those purchasing tickets for a ride will be bused to Kansas City that morning to board the train. Tickets will be $125 for a coach seat -- $75 of which will be a tax-deductible donation -- or $200 for a dome car seat, $150 of which will be tax deductible. Tickets may be purchased by calling (785) 232-5533. Order forms and other information also are available on the Great Overland Station's Web site, www.greatoverlandstation.com. David Jackson, president of North Topeka on the Move and vice president of the North Topeka Business Alliance, said other activities in the area will make waiting for the arrival of the train more fun. There will be a street fair, vintage automobiles and shuttle buses from parking areas. Inside the Great Overland Station will be displays of railroad memorabilia contributed for the day by local collectors, according to Larry Wright, chairman of the event committee. History buffs will be available to talk about the history of the station. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <01b701c0ccf3$dc4fa420$7e01a8c0_@_0018982498> References: <006b01c0ccee$e5410420$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:22:10 -0700 From: "Eric Miller" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Railroad Preservation and ISTEA: Are You on Board? did you write this? if so, may we have permission to reprint it at www.newcolonist.com? Eric Miller - ----- Original Message ----- From: James Dent To: RSHS List Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:46 AM Subject: (rshsdepot) Railroad Preservation and ISTEA: Are You on Board? > This year marks the tenth anniversary of the landmark overhaul of Federal > surface transportation spending program known as ISTEA-the Intermodal > Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991. ISTEA and its 1998 > reauthorization, TEA-21, represent the most radical overhaul of Federal > surface transportation spending since the creation of the Interstate highway > system during the Eisenhower administration. In a sharp break with past > practices, which required states to spend every dollar they received from > the Federal highway trust fund to build new roads, ISTEA allows states to > use up to half their money for "flexible use" transit alternatives, > including commuter rail, light rail, subways, bike trails, or nearly any > other legitimate transportation purpose. The 1990s renaissance in rail-based > mass transit, particularly light rail, was fueled largely by the flexible > funding climate created by ISTEA and its successor, TEA-21. > > What does all this have to do with railway preservation? While highway and > mass transit interests duke it out for the big multi-million dollar projects > funded with ISTEA and TEA-21 money, a relatively little-noticed provision of > these laws calls for 10% of the a state's total funding to be allocated to > "Transportation Enhancements," defined as scenic easements, bicycle and > pedestrian facilities, transit-related historic preservation, billboard > control, and stormwater run-off control. Trivial though the enhancements > program may be in the context of the total surface transportation > appropriation, it amounts, quietly and without fanfare, to the single > greatest program of Federal assistance to rail preservation in the history > of our movement. > > Because ISTEA and TEA-21 enhancement programs are chosen competitively on a > state-by-state basis, there is no single national record of the number of > historical rail preservation projects undertaken with funding from this > source. It's doubtful that anyone in our movement has ever sought to compile > national figures on the total number of dollars or projects. Yet all > anecdotal evidence suggests that the impact is substantial, and that it > extends far beyond the organized rail preservation community of museums, > tourist railroads, and NRHS chapters. > > For every high-profile grant conferred on a well-known rail preservation > group (the $300,000 grant received by the Michigan State Trust for Rail > Preservation for its 2-8-4 Berkshire Pere Marquette 1225 is a good example), > ISTEA and TEA-21 have also funded dozens if not hundreds of depot and > station restoration and adaptive reuse projects. Many of these projects have > been undertaken by local historic preservationists and planners with little > or no involvement from organized railroad preservationists per se. > > It's hard to overemphasize how widespread and diverse the rail preservation > activities funded by ISTEA have become, and how far the impact of this > legislation has extended beyond our community. As a case in point, let me > offer you the former Pennsylvania Railroad depot in Snow Hill, MD. Worcester > County, MD received funding from the ISTEA enhancement program in 1995 to > renovate the old train station in Snow Hill and to establish a 10-mile > section of rail trail on a long-disused and lifted PRR branch running > between Snow Hill and Stockton (independent shortline Maryland and Delaware > still offers rail freight service as far as Snow Hill itself). The stucco > depot now serves as a general community center, with its exterior preserved > largely as it was in railroad use, and its interior reconfigured as meeting > spaces. To the best of my knowledge, this small project proceeded with out > anything except the most informal input from local rail historians and > enthusiasts. And yet, it represents a substantial contribution to saving the > physical heritage of railroading in this small Eastern Shore community. > > For each project like this, I'm sure dozens of others could be located and > identified. There are perhaps three conclusions we can draw from this story > and others like it. First, ISTEA and its successor TEA-21 have had a > tremendous impact on making funding available for small to mid-sized rail > preservation projects. Second, as an organized community, rail > preservationists have not taken as much advantage of this program as we can. > Has your organization ever submitted an ISTEA or TEA-21 application, or > supplied research support or expert testimony in behalf of one? If not, get > involved! Even if your own preservation site cannot easily qualify for > transportation enhancement funding, you can lend expert advice and counsel > to other projects in your area which do, and which support the overall goal > of rail preservation in your region. > > The third point is perhaps the hardest: as a community, we have had > regrettably little impact on defending these programs and securing their > future. To explain what I mean, contrast our activities with those of the > Rails to Trails Movement. Rail preservationists have had an uneasy > relationship with the trails movement, and our interests are not always > aligned. Yet this community lobbied actively and effectively to preserve the > Transportation Enhancements program when ISTEA was reauthorized as TEA-21 in > 1998. I know of no corresponding national campaign on the rail preservation > side. To the extent that we as preservationists benefit from TEA-21 > enhancement funds, we owe it in no small part to our friends and sometimes > competitors in the trails movement. > > TEA-21 is out there. The money is ours for the earning with good > proposals-contact your state's Department of Transportation for applications > and details. And the money is ours to keep and defend, or ignore and lose, > when TEA-21 next comes up for reauthorization after Federal fiscal year > 2003. > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <009901c0ccf1$c09eef80$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> References: <006b01c0ccee$e5410420$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:07:05 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Railroad Preservation and ISTEA: Are You on Board? My previous message somehow escaped without its authorship. For those actively involved in depot restoration, the following editorial by Eric Ledbetter of Railway Preservation News should be interesting, and perhaps enlightening... - ----- Original Message ----- From: James Dent To: RSHS List Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 2:46 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Railroad Preservation and ISTEA: Are You on Board? > This year marks the tenth anniversary of the landmark overhaul of Federal > surface transportation spending program known as ISTEA-the Intermodal > Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991. ISTEA and its 1998 > reauthorization, TEA-21, represent the most radical overhaul of Federal > surface transportation spending since the creation of the Interstate highway > system during the Eisenhower administration. In a sharp break with past > practices, which required states to spend every dollar they received from > the Federal highway trust fund to build new roads, ISTEA allows states to > use up to half their money for "flexible use" transit alternatives, > including commuter rail, light rail, subways, bike trails, or nearly any > other legitimate transportation purpose. The 1990s renaissance in rail-based > mass transit, particularly light rail, was fueled largely by the flexible > funding climate created by ISTEA and its successor, TEA-21. > > What does all this have to do with railway preservation? While highway and > mass transit interests duke it out for the big multi-million dollar projects > funded with ISTEA and TEA-21 money, a relatively little-noticed provision of > these laws calls for 10% of the a state's total funding to be allocated to > "Transportation Enhancements," defined as scenic easements, bicycle and > pedestrian facilities, transit-related historic preservation, billboard > control, and stormwater run-off control. Trivial though the enhancements > program may be in the context of the total surface transportation > appropriation, it amounts, quietly and without fanfare, to the single > greatest program of Federal assistance to rail preservation in the history > of our movement. > > Because ISTEA and TEA-21 enhancement programs are chosen competitively on a > state-by-state basis, there is no single national record of the number of > historical rail preservation projects undertaken with funding from this > source. It's doubtful that anyone in our movement has ever sought to compile > national figures on the total number of dollars or projects. Yet all > anecdotal evidence suggests that the impact is substantial, and that it > extends far beyond the organized rail preservation community of museums, > tourist railroads, and NRHS chapters. > > For every high-profile grant conferred on a well-known rail preservation > group (the $300,000 grant received by the Michigan State Trust for Rail > Preservation for its 2-8-4 Berkshire Pere Marquette 1225 is a good example), > ISTEA and TEA-21 have also funded dozens if not hundreds of depot and > station restoration and adaptive reuse projects. Many of these projects have > been undertaken by local historic preservationists and planners with little > or no involvement from organized railroad preservationists per se. > > It's hard to overemphasize how widespread and diverse the rail preservation > activities funded by ISTEA have become, and how far the impact of this > legislation has extended beyond our community. As a case in point, let me > offer you the former Pennsylvania Railroad depot in Snow Hill, MD. Worcester > County, MD received funding from the ISTEA enhancement program in 1995 to > renovate the old train station in Snow Hill and to establish a 10-mile > section of rail trail on a long-disused and lifted PRR branch running > between Snow Hill and Stockton (independent shortline Maryland and Delaware > still offers rail freight service as far as Snow Hill itself). The stucco > depot now serves as a general community center, with its exterior preserved > largely as it was in railroad use, and its interior reconfigured as meeting > spaces. To the best of my knowledge, this small project proceeded with out > anything except the most informal input from local rail historians and > enthusiasts. And yet, it represents a substantial contribution to saving the > physical heritage of railroading in this small Eastern Shore community. > > For each project like this, I'm sure dozens of others could be located and > identified. There are perhaps three conclusions we can draw from this story > and others like it. First, ISTEA and its successor TEA-21 have had a > tremendous impact on making funding available for small to mid-sized rail > preservation projects. Second, as an organized community, rail > preservationists have not taken as much advantage of this program as we can. > Has your organization ever submitted an ISTEA or TEA-21 application, or > supplied research support or expert testimony in behalf of one? If not, get > involved! Even if your own preservation site cannot easily qualify for > transportation enhancement funding, you can lend expert advice and counsel > to other projects in your area which do, and which support the overall goal > of rail preservation in your region. > > The third point is perhaps the hardest: as a community, we have had > regrettably little impact on defending these programs and securing their > future. To explain what I mean, contrast our activities with those of the > Rails to Trails Movement. Rail preservationists have had an uneasy > relationship with the trails movement, and our interests are not always > aligned. Yet this community lobbied actively and effectively to preserve the > Transportation Enhancements program when ISTEA was reauthorized as TEA-21 in > 1998. I know of no corresponding national campaign on the rail preservation > side. To the extent that we as preservationists benefit from TEA-21 > enhancement funds, we owe it in no small part to our friends and sometimes > competitors in the trails movement. > > TEA-21 is out there. The money is ours for the earning with good > proposals-contact your state's Department of Transportation for applications > and details. And the money is ours to keep and defend, or ignore and lose, > when TEA-21 next comes up for reauthorization after Federal fiscal year > 2003. > > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00c801c0ccf2$db0d2e80$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:14:56 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Book: When the Railroad Leaves Town Truman State University (Kirksville, MO) is the publisher of a new book, due in July, that may be of interest to depot fans. The website provides the following synopsis... When the Railroad Leaves Town: American Communities in the Age of Rail Line Abandonment, Eastern United States by Joseph P. Schwieterman Forthcoming 2001 http://www2.truman.edu/tsup/books_info/w/when1.html Railroads once spread across the American landscape, radiating from towns like spokes on a wheel. They were the backbone of the municipal economy and essential to commercial and civic life. In thousands of communities, however, this remarkable era has ended. With technological innovation, the changing needs of industry, and rising competition from other modes of transportation, the nation's railroads have eliminated more than 130,000 miles of routes–over half of their total mileage since 1916. When the Railroad Leaves Town: American Communities in the Age of Rail Line Abandonment considers the rise and fall of rail service in 64 eastern U.S. communities distinguished by their notable railroad histories or unusual experiences with rail line abandonment. It tells the story of transportation providers struggling to survive in a changing economy only to surrender to the relentless forces of the marketplace. In many communities, the withdrawal of the railroad had unexpected consequences; in others, it forever altered the rhythm of daily life. Using an interdisciplinary approach drawing upon the fields of history, geography, and urban planning, the book illuminates some of the dominant forces that led to the development of steam and electric railroads as well as the economic and political factors eventually accelerating their decline. Illustrated with maps and photographs depicting rail lines at their zenith as well as their abandoned remnants today, it provides a vivid portrait of an industrial saga that has touched the lives of millions of Americans. Prepared with the cooperation of more than 100 town and railroad historians, this book features places last served by carriers predominantly on the Atlantic side of an imaginary line that once separated America’s eastern and western railroad systems. US communities listed in alphabetical order by state: AL: Tuskegee AL: Valley CT: East Hampton DE: Smyrna FL: Boca Grande FL: Inverness FL: Key West FL: Miami Beach FL: Palm Beach GA: Fort Oglethorpe GA: Thalmann IL: Harrisburg IL: Warrenville IN: Crown Point IN: Dunreith IN: Greenfield IN: Liverpool KY: Morehead LA: Covington ME: Ellsworth MD: Annapolis MD: Monkton MA: Lexington MA: Marblehead MI: Cheboygan MI: Reed City MI: South Haven MI: Troy MS: Fayette MO: Florissant MO: Kirksville NH: Derry NH: Keene NJ: Blairstown NJ: Caldwell NJ: Marlboro NJ: Ocean City NY: Amherst NY: Gloversville NY: Roscoe NY: Saranac Lake NC: Boone NC: Franklin OH: Bradford OH: Cheviot OH: Oberlin OH: Westerville OH: Xenia PA: Hellertown PA: Ligonier PA: Newtown RI: Bristol RI: Coventry ("Washington") SC: York TN: Monterey VT: Springfield VA: Blacksburg VA: Herndon VA: McKenney WV: Marlinton WV: Salem ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6b.13483708.2817355c_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:00:28 EDT From: I95BERNIEW_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Fort Worth, Texas, Officials Look to Convert Train Station to Upscale Hotel Fort Worth, Texas, Officials Look to Convert Train Station to Upscale Hotel=20 By Ginger D. Richardson, Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Texas Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News=20 Apr. 18--FORT WORTH, Texas-- City officials said Tuesday that they support converting the Texas & Pacific= =20 Terminal Building into an upscale hotel, but the project may cost too much.=20 =A0 Developers of the T&P building, located at Lancaster Avenue and Throckmorton= =20 Street, want the city to create a special authority to help finance the $50=20 million renovation and hotel construction project with tax-free bonds.=20 =A0 Under the plan, the authority would own the hotel and the developers would=20 hire a hotel management company to run it. Within 10 years, the hotel could=20 revert to private ownership and go back on the tax rolls.=20 =A0 But city officials said their first priority is paying for the proposed Fort= =20 Worth Convention Center hotel, which is estimated to cost between $70 millio= n=20 and $80 million and is scheduled to be open in late 2003 or early 2004.=20 =A0 The T&P developers "are going to submit a financial plan," Assistant City=20 Manager Mike Groomer said. "If it works, and doesn't interfere with our=20 ability to do the Convention Center hotel, then it sounds like a great idea.= =20 =A0 "But we try not to put the city in a position that doesn't make good=20 financial sense."=20 =A0 Preliminary plans for the T&P building call for the 1931 art deco structure=20 to be turned into a four-star, railroad- themed hotel of 290 to 330 rooms.=20 =A0 Wyndham Hotels & Resorts has expressed interest in operating the facility,=20 which could open in late 2002 or early 2003, developers Ed Casebier and Tom=20 Blanton said.=20 =A0 Casebier and Blanton said they would be willing to put up about 20 percent,=20 or $10 million, of the project's costs, but that the city-created authority=20 would have to assume the rest of the debt for the tax-free bonds.=20 =A0 The council's economic development committee is expected to discuss the=20 proposal in a few weeks.=20 =A0 "We want to be supportive," said Councilman Jeff Wentworth, who is chairman=20 of the committee. "It just all depends on what the financial request is." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3AE631AF.348B4088_@_erols.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 22:08:47 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Railway King stove? Reply-To: "Gary LaPointe" From: "Gary LaPointe" To: Subject: Railway King stove? Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:42:01 -0400 Hi, I am trying to identify an old coal stove I just picked up. Do you = know=20 of any RR sites which might help me? The stove is marked "Railway King"=20 "No.12". Its in great shape, but I want to restore it. Thanks for any = help you=20 can send. Jim Deyermond Andover, MA JmdMSP_@_aol.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00aa01c0cd39$601cbd20$3f55c0d8_@_paul> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:39:38 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? Totally confused, so I sent to that address and got back a message to = send some gobbledygook (in exact fashion as written!!) to some address = and I get back this: no I don't get it back, it says it can't be sent... It said I was unauthorized to send to this address or that I wasn't = allowed to...I thought I copied message but it wasn't...so what is the = story? If I can't get through to the verification address then what? ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3AE648B1.92490B2D_@_erols.com> References: <00aa01c0cd39$601cbd20$3f55c0d8_@_paul> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:46:57 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? You have entered a entered a place of time and dimension...the twilight zone Seriously though, you are subscribed to rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net, the continuing list. The Yahoo list is gone as of about two hours ago. Messages cannot be sent to that list. Jim "Paul S. Luchter" wrote: > > Totally confused, so I sent to that address and got back a message to send some gobbledygook (in exact fashion as written!!) to some address and I get back this: no I don't get it back, it says it can't be sent... > > It said I was unauthorized to send to this address or that I wasn't allowed to...I thought I copied message but it wasn't...so what is the story? If I can't get through to the verification address then what? ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20010425041719.33764.qmail_@_web11808.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3AE648B1.92490B2D_@_erols.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:17:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Art Marsh Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? Neat, I just been "Slammed" And this time I do not mind. How on earth were you able to do it Jim. I mean doesn't there have to be a verification email sent out? Thanks, I too was having a problem trying to set myself up for the railfan.net site. Art - --- Jim Dent wrote: > > > You have entered a entered a place of time and > dimension...the twilight zone > > Seriously though, you are subscribed to > rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net, the continuing list. > The Yahoo list is gone as of about two hours ago. > Messages cannot be sent to that list. > > Jim > > "Paul S. Luchter" wrote: > > > > Totally confused, so I sent to that address and > got back a message to send some gobbledygook (in > exact fashion as written!!) to some address and I > get back this: no I don't get it back, it says it > can't be sent... > > > > It said I was unauthorized to send to this address > or that I wasn't allowed to...I thought I copied > message but it wasn't...so what is the story? If I > can't get through to the verification address then what? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3AE651A5.B87B2AD6_@_erols.com> References: <20010425041719.33764.qmail_@_web11808.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 00:25:09 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? Art, Everyone that was on the old list was transferred, about two months ago, to the new list. I just had never shutdown the old list. Jim Art Marsh wrote: > > Neat, I just been "Slammed" And this time I do not > mind. > > How on earth were you able to do it Jim. I mean > doesn't there have to be a verification email sent > out? > > Thanks, I too was having a problem trying to set > myself up for the railfan.net site. > > Art ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #50 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001d01c0cd7a$2ee2e5e0$03ba1b41_@_cinci.rr.com> References: <00aa01c0cd39$601cbd20$3f55c0d8_@_paul> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:23:41 -0400 From: "Cliff Scholes" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? majordomo: I did the same thing this AM and my system says the server will NOT ACCEPT the majordomo address. What gives????????? Cliff Scholes - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul S. Luchter" To: "RSHSDepot" Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:39 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? Totally confused, so I sent to that address and got back a message to send some gobbledygook (in exact fashion as written!!) to some address and I get back this: no I don't get it back, it says it can't be sent... It said I was unauthorized to send to this address or that I wasn't allowed to...I thought I copied message but it wasn't...so what is the story? If I can't get through to the verification address then what? ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002101c0cd7a$49c49ca0$03ba1b41_@_cinci.rr.com> References: <00aa01c0cd39$601cbd20$3f55c0d8_@_paul> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:24:26 -0400 From: "Cliff Scholes" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul S. Luchter" To: "RSHSDepot" Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:39 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? Totally confused, so I sent to that address and got back a message to send some gobbledygook (in exact fashion as written!!) to some address and I get back this: no I don't get it back, it says it can't be sent... It said I was unauthorized to send to this address or that I wasn't allowed to...I thought I copied message but it wasn't...so what is the story? If I can't get through to the verification address then what? ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003501c0cd7b$038e41e0$03ba1b41_@_cinci.rr.com> References: <20010425041719.33764.qmail_@_web11808.mail.yahoo.com> <3AE651A5.B87B2AD6@erols.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:29:38 -0400 From: "Cliff Scholes" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? Jim: Then why were we instructed to re-subscribe? And why cna we NOT get an answer from majordomo?? Cliff Scholes - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Dent" To: "Art Marsh" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 12:25 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? > Art, > > Everyone that was on the old list was transferred, about two months ago, to the new list. I just had never shutdown the old list. > > Jim > > Art Marsh wrote: > > > > Neat, I just been "Slammed" And this time I do not > > mind. > > > > How on earth were you able to do it Jim. I mean > > doesn't there have to be a verification email sent > > out? > > > > Thanks, I too was having a problem trying to set > > myself up for the railfan.net site. > > > > Art ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <9c.dd7171f.281812aa_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:44:42 EDT From: Dherbert53_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? You should be able to transfer all of the names without us having to do it one by one. I fear you will have nothing but trouble with this new server. Dean Carroll ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002a01c0cd8a$23ca1100$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:17:55 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) New List To everyone who receives this, YOU ARE ON THE NEW LIST, as you have been for the last few months. You do not need to do anything if you are reading this message! I have not had any problems with the new list. Jim Dent ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9c.dd7171f.281812aa_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:19:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 Dherbert53_@_aol.com wrote: > You should be able to transfer all of the names without us having to do it > one by one. I fear you will have nothing but trouble with this new server. > > Dean Carroll The list has been running here since mid-february. The names were transfered at that time. The majordomo address is majordomo_@_lists.railfan.net and if it was not reachable your post to the list would not have gone through. I have been watching the RSHS majordomo traffic, both list content and administrative functions, carefully since the list was setup here and it has been operating flawlessly since startup. We also have RSHS list photos online at http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo and photos of interest to the list may be included in list postings as attachments which will be automatically archived and replaced in the list mail with a notice of where to view them with a browser. There is a digest version of the list for those who don't wish to receive it piecemeal and I personally watch over the majordomo system daily to make sure it is functioning correctly. "Nothing but trouble" may apply to some other networks, but let me assure you it's not here. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002101c0cd8c$07b9b360$d742fd3f_@_0020223609> References: Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:31:23 -0400 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? No problems here with the list, but one question which your response reminds me to ask (always punish a volunteer!): Is there a reasonably non-burdensome way to index the photo archive by subject or photo title? With the couple of dozen photos we have there now, the date-only system is certainly no hardship, but if the archive grows to any degree, it could get hard to find things. Thanks Steve Delibert - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blue Moon Network Administrator" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:19 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? > On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 Dherbert53_@_aol.com wrote: > > > You should be able to transfer all of the names without us having to do it > > one by one. I fear you will have nothing but trouble with this new server. > > > > Dean Carroll > > The list has been running here since mid-february. > > The names were transfered at that time. > > The majordomo address is majordomo_@_lists.railfan.net and if it was not > reachable your post to the list would not have gone through. > > I have been watching the RSHS majordomo traffic, both list content and > administrative functions, carefully since the list was setup here and it has > been operating flawlessly since startup. > > We also have RSHS list photos online at > > http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo > > and photos of interest to the list may be included in list postings as > attachments which will be automatically archived and replaced in the list mail > with a notice of where to view them with a browser. > > There is a digest version of the list for those who don't wish to receive it > piecemeal and I personally watch over the majordomo system daily to make sure > it is functioning correctly. > > "Nothing but trouble" may apply to some other networks, but let me assure you > it's not here. > > Henry > > J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator > root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp > V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002101c0cd8c$07b9b360$d742fd3f_@_0020223609> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:57:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Steven Delibert wrote: > No problems here with the list, but one question which your response > reminds me to ask (always punish a volunteer!): Is there a reasonably > non-burdensome way to index the photo archive by subject or photo title? > With the couple of dozen photos we have there now, the date-only system is > certainly no hardship, but if the archive grows to any degree, it could get > hard to find things. > Thanks > Steve Delibert Nothing is out of the realm of possibility :) I roll my own when it comes to this stuff so the biggest limitation is time. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <012201c0cd92$f63bb000$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> References: <002101c0cd8c$07b9b360$d742fd3f@0020223609> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:21:04 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Photo Archive index In a sense, the photo archive is indexed through the list archive. You can search the list archives by terms and find the message that has the link to the photo archive for that particular photo subject. The list achieve is at: http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/lists/wilma.cgi/rshsdepot-digest.archive Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Delibert To: Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:31 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? > No problems here with the list, but one question which your response > reminds me to ask (always punish a volunteer!): Is there a reasonably > non-burdensome way to index the photo archive by subject or photo title? > With the couple of dozen photos we have there now, the date-only system is > certainly no hardship, but if the archive grows to any degree, it could get > hard to find things. > Thanks > Steve Delibert ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <012301c0cd93$07419900$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> References: <002101c0cd8c$07b9b360$d742fd3f@0020223609> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:21:33 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Photo Archive index In a sense, the photo archive is indexed through the list archive. You can search the list archives by terms and find the message that has the link to the photo archive for that particular photo subject. The list archive is at: http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/lists/wilma.cgi/rshsdepot-digest.archive Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Delibert To: Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:31 AM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? > No problems here with the list, but one question which your response > reminds me to ask (always punish a volunteer!): Is there a reasonably > non-burdensome way to index the photo archive by subject or photo title? > With the couple of dozen photos we have there now, the date-only system is > certainly no hardship, but if the archive grows to any degree, it could get > hard to find things. > Thanks > Steve Delibert ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <012201c0cd92$f63bb000$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:27:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Photo Archive index On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, James Dent wrote: > In a sense, the photo archive is indexed through the list archive. You can > search the list archives by terms and find the message that has the link to > the photo archive for that particular photo subject. > > The list achieve is at: > http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/lists/wilma.cgi/rshsdepot-digest.archive > > Jim I just updated the indexer to list subjects under the day link. It can be directly accessed at http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo or -From the main Railfan.net RR email list page at http://www.railfan.net/lists/ It didn't take as long as I thought it would :) Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20010425153929.24508.qmail_@_web11802.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <002a01c0cd8a$23ca1100$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:39:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Art Marsh Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) New List Jim, Most seem to be like me... We are so used to having to "manually" make and okay the routing changes. Case in point would be when we were transferred from the eGroups servers to the Yahoo servers. I still think that I lost some links over that move. Otherwise, I never even noticed we had been moved. A hearty congratulations to who ever accomplished that task. It has been flawless as far as I could see. Thanks again. Art - --- James Dent wrote: > To everyone who receives this, YOU ARE ON THE NEW > LIST, as you have been for > the last few months. > You do not need to do anything if you are reading > this message! > > I have not had any problems with the new list. > > Jim Dent > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001201c0cda3$00de35e0$03ba1b41_@_cinci.rr.com> References: <00aa01c0cd39$601cbd20$3f55c0d8_@_paul> <3AE648B1.92490B2D@erols.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:15:53 -0400 From: "Cliff Scholes" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? ????? Am I subscribed or NOT??? Cliff Scholes - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Dent" To: "RSHS List" Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:46 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Am I subscribed? Am I not? > > > You have entered a entered a place of time and dimension...the twilight zone > > Seriously though, you are subscribed to rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net, the continuing list. The Yahoo list is gone as of about two hours ago. Messages cannot be sent to that list. > > Jim > > "Paul S. Luchter" wrote: > > > > Totally confused, so I sent to that address and got back a message to send some gobbledygook (in exact fashion as written!!) to some address and I get back this: no I don't get it back, it says it can't be sent... > > > > It said I was unauthorized to send to this address or that I wasn't allowed to...I thought I copied message but it wasn't...so what is the story? If I can't get through to the verification address then what? ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000f01c0cda3$07a52280$3046fd3f_@_0020223609> References: Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:16:01 -0400 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Photo Archive index Wow, that's less time than it took me to ask the question, which first occurred to me last week. Nice job. Thanks Steve Delibert > I just updated the indexer to list subjects under the day link. It can be > directly accessed at http://www.railfan.net/lists/mplist.cgi?rshsdepot-photo or > from the main Railfan.net RR email list page at http://www.railfan.net/lists/ > > It didn't take as long as I thought it would :) > > Henry > > J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator > root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp > V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003301c0cda3$dae86300$03ba1b41_@_cinci.rr.com> References: <002a01c0cd8a$23ca1100$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:21:59 -0400 From: "Cliff Scholes" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) New List Jim: Why CAN'T we send you a message, then??????? My server still says it CANNOT access your site. What is WRONG?????????? Cliff Scholes - ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dent" To: "RSHS List" Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:17 AM Subject: (rshsdepot) New List > To everyone who receives this, YOU ARE ON THE NEW LIST, as you have been for > the last few months. > You do not need to do anything if you are reading this message! > > I have not had any problems with the new list. > > Jim Dent > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003e01c0cda4$35971bc0$03ba1b41_@_cinci.rr.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:24:31 -0400 From: "Cliff Scholes" Subject: [none] ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005101c0cda4$cd2bbc20$03ba1b41_@_cinci.rr.com> References: <002a01c0cd8a$23ca1100$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:28:46 -0400 From: "Cliff Scholes" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) New List Jim: I still CANNOT get to you for an email. What in the world (or out of the world) is going on????? Cliff Scholes - ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dent" To: "RSHS List" Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:17 AM Subject: (rshsdepot) New List > To everyone who receives this, YOU ARE ON THE NEW LIST, as you have been for > the last few months. > You do not need to do anything if you are reading this message! > > I have not had any problems with the new list. > > Jim Dent > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003301c0cda3$dae86300$03ba1b41_@_cinci.rr.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:32:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Blue Moon Network Administrator Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) New List What site it is exactly that it says it cannot access? Your messages are coming through to the list, this _IS_ the list :) There is some list information and some URL's relevant to this list at: http://www.railfan.net/lists/ Henry On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Cliff Scholes wrote: > Jim: > Why CAN'T we send you a message, then??????? > My server still says it CANNOT access your site. What is WRONG?????????? > Cliff Scholes > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Dent" > To: "RSHS List" > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:17 AM > Subject: (rshsdepot) New List > > > > To everyone who receives this, YOU ARE ON THE NEW LIST, as you have been > for > > the last few months. > > You do not need to do anything if you are reading this message! > > > > I have not had any problems with the new list. > > > > Jim Dent > > > > J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon President & Network Administrator root_@_bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002e01c0cda6$ff0d49a0$3046fd3f_@_0020223609> References: <002a01c0cd8a$23ca1100$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> <005101c0cda4$cd2bbc20$03ba1b41@cinci.rr.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:44:25 -0400 From: "Steven Delibert" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) New List Cliff, your messages are reaching us ordinary folks out here on the list. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Scholes" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 12:28 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) New List > Jim: > I still CANNOT get to you for an email. > > What in the world (or out of the world) is going on????? > > Cliff Scholes > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Dent" > To: "RSHS List" > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:17 AM > Subject: (rshsdepot) New List > > > > To everyone who receives this, YOU ARE ON THE NEW LIST, as you have been > for > > the last few months. > > You do not need to do anything if you are reading this message! > > > > I have not had any problems with the new list. > > > > Jim Dent > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001d01c0cdae$fb8561c0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:41:38 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Big Apple Bound: Is Getting There Half the Fun? Not quite depot related, but interesting, from the Washington (DC) Post... Big Apple Bound: Is Getting There Half the Fun? By Marc Fisher, Steve Hendrix, Peter Carlson and Gary Lee Washington Post Staff Writers Wednesday, April 25, 2001; Page C01 Once upon a time, like last year, if you had to get from Washington to New York, you went by plane if you had big money, by train if you had plenty of time, by car if you had a deep personal need for masochistic experiences, and by bus if you had nothing at all. Now, everything has changed. Amtrak's new Acela Express train travels nonstop between Union and Penn stations in 2 hours 28 minutes, almost half an hour off the former rail champion, the Metroliner. And the E-ZPass -- the plastic transponder you attach to your windshield so you can speed through toll booths while guffawing at suckers waiting in endless lines -- slices a good 20 minutes off the drive, and much more on trying holiday weekends. Imagine: Better living through technology! To test the new world of East Coast Metroplex commuting, The Post sent four reasonably willing reporters to New York, by US Airways shuttle (Peter Carlson), Acela Express (Steve Hendrix), car (Marc Fisher) and Peter Pan bus (Gary Lee). The race commenced in pitch darkness at 6:15 on a weekday morning at the Post building in downtown Washington and ended at the paper's New York bureau on West 57th Street. We were under no illusions that this was an even race. Clearly, planes move faster than buses; even newspaper reporters understood that much. But the hype artists at Amtrak argue that in a door-to-door matchup, Acela is competitive with the air shuttles. And at least one of us strongly believed that a nonstop driver could beat the train and, with a boost from some of those patented LaGuardia Airport "volume delays," perhaps even the plane. As for the bus, well, it's cheap. So who won? We could focus on the horse race, but that would be wrong. In fact, what we had here was really a test of four modes for speed, comfort and overall satisfaction. Speed Air Man just knew he was going to win the race to Manhattan. One simple reason, he reports: I was flying. I was cocky. I was confident. I was downright arrogant. My competitors would be bound by gravity, slithering across the surface of the Earth like snakes. I'd be zooming through thin air, like a bird, like a plane, like Superman. The only way he could lose, he figured, would be to miss the 7 a.m. shuttle, which, as he stood in the pre-dawn drizzle trying to hail a cab, began to seem fairly likely. There weren't many cabs on 15th Street at 6:15 in the morning -- or at 6:20, or 6:25. Several drove right past him, but one finally stopped and Air Man made it to the US Airways shuttle building by 6:40, whereupon he made like O.J. to the gate. The plane landed right on time at 8. After a long, slow taxi to the terminal, we arrived at 8:08. I did another mad dash out of the airport and hopped intoa cab at 8:15. As soon as my butt hit the seat, the meter read $2.00. Welcome to New York! The cab lurched through traffic, arriving on 57th Street at 8:40, whereupon we crept, we crawled. Finally, at 8:53, I paid the cabby $24 and jumped out at Sixth Avenue, hoofing the last block to The Post's bureau, arriving at 8:57. Elapsed time: 2 hours 42 minutes. Train Man almost missed the Acela because he stayed at the Post building to gloat over Air Man helplessly flailing his arms at taxis. But at 6:20, Train Man jogged over to the Farragut North Metro station, made his way to Union Station and hit the platform with four minutes to spare. Train Man reports that the Acela may look like a toppled rocket, but at precisely 6:50, it took off more like a royal sedan chair, a slow smooth rollout into the rain with nary a herk or a jerk. By 7:05, we had cleared the D.C. clutter and were clacking along at speed. I got up for train travel's greatest luxury: a walk. The Acela doesn't actually travel any faster than other passenger trains -- 125 mph is the speed limit for all trains between Washington and New York. But the Acela can maintain higher speeds on the curves than the older rigs. When I told the train crew I was competing in this race, they started plying me with advice, shortcuts to the subway, even which escalators at Penn Station were the least crowded. They wanted me to win. At 9:20, the Acela nosed into the slip at Penn Station. Outside, the taxi line was horrendous. But Train Man had an ace to play; while strolling through the Acela, he had happened upon an executive of a certain capital city newspaper, a train partisan who had a car waiting in New York. Train Man hitched a ride and scooted uptown. Half a block from the finish line, he bailed out and ran the last leg. Up the elevator and down the hall, I burst into the Post bureau looking at my watch and yelling, "9:36! 9:36!" But Air Man had already been there for 39 minutes. Elapsed time: 3 hours 21 minutes. Car Man, meanwhile, had taken advantage of his head start. While the others made their way across Washington to reach their modes of transportation, Car Man zoomed through the dark, up 16th Street NW, past a drug dealer doing business in the open at Harvard Street. Twelve minutes and nine red lights to the District line, 17 minutes to the Beltway, which was blessedly empty at 6:31. Fighting annoying drizzle, then heavy rain, he moved through Baltimore and its suburbs traffic-free. He passed two troopers in Maryland, but they seemed not to mind his liberal interpretation of the speed limit. The E-ZPass did him no good at the long lines at Maryland's two tolls; the Free State insists on its own incompatible transponder system. But Delaware cooperates with states to the north, and the pass saved probably five to seven minutes there. Ach! Car Man reports. I knew I would hit someone's morning rush, and it turns out to be Delaware's. (Isn't it too small a state to have a rush hour?)Standstill traffic hits at 7:47, and I creep all the way to the bridge to New Jersey -- a 10-minute setback. Despite the weather, Car Man made fine time, scooting through E-ZPass lanes on the New Jersey Turnpike at 45 mph, past dozens of waiting cars, arriving at the Holland Tunnel (the radio reported massive backups at the Lincoln, far less of a wait at the Holland) at 9:29. Manhattan traffic was light, and Car Man arrived at a garage one block from the finish line at 9:57. He ditched the car, ran the last block and entered the bureau at 10:03 -- 27 minutes behind Train Man. Elapsed time: 3 hours 48 minutes. Bus Man, at that moment, was still somewhere in New Jersey. His 7 a.m. Peter Pan coach had been scheduled to arrive in New York at 11:20. Oh, sure, Bus Man had muttered to himself on his way to the terminal on Capitol Hill. On several earlier bus trips, the estimated 4 1/2-hour journey had taken far longer due to traffic snarls or other snafus. One steamy August evening, mechanical failure had forced a Greyhound into a dismal shopping mall somewhere off the Jersey Turnpike. That trip lasted 6 1/2 nerve-racking hours. So I knew I was the tortoise pitted against three hares. Winning would take a freak of nature or a miracle. Bus Man gave himself 25 minutes to get to the bus terminal via Metro and foot. He arrived at the terminal at 6:34, only to find 12 other people ahead of him in the ticket queue. He didn't reach the agent until 6:53. He galloped over to the bus, only to hear the driver bark, "We're full up. The rest of you will have to wait for the next bus out." Boom -- a one-hour delay. So much for a miracle. But the 8 o'clock nonstop got going right on time. "We'll be arriving in New York at 12:20," the driver, a burly silver-haired matron, announced over the loudspeaker. "Or thereabouts." When we pulled into Port Authority terminal, it was 11:50. Yes! A full half-hour ahead of schedule. Slinging my backpack over my shoulder, I made haste through the crowded terminal, upstairs and down the corridor to the A Train. Bus Man arrived at 12:10 -- 5 hours 55 minutes after he left Washington. Even if he had gotten on the 7 a.m. bus, he still would have been more than an hour behind Car Man. Comfort Our results on speed alone: plane, train, car, bus. But add comfort to the computation and everyone changes places: train, bus, plane, car. The Acela wins this one easily. Acela cars, unlike other trains, are bolted together for shudder-free starts and stops. New and spotless, the train has the clean, efficient look of those high-tech public toilets in cities like Copenhagen and Oslo. The dining car is as bright and roomy as a SoHo sushi bar. A TV is tuned for stock market jockeys, the right programming for a train full of laptops and cell phones. With sparse crowds, the express train has no line for coffee and muffins. There's always a roomy lavatory to be had. In fact, demand is so light on the express train that, on Monday, Amtrak will add a single stop -- and two minutes to the run -- to pick up more fares in Philadelphia. The bus makes a surprisingly strong showing here. As Bus Man notes, low cost should not be confused with shabbiness. With two well-cushioned, comfortably reclining seats to himself, Bus Man takes in great views of Baltimore, Philadelphia and other scenic points. Thoroughly vacuumed and swept overnight, the bus is neat and tidy. Even the toilet is clean. And there are no screaming babies, loud teenagers, boomboxes or other noisemakers. By comparison, the shuttle ride is an exercise in agita. Despite the ludicrous hour, Air Man faces a line at the check-in counter, where a guy in a dark pinstriped suit elbows him out of the way with his briefcase and cuts in front of our reporter. Air Man: The New York to Washington shuttle is the crosstown bus of America's ruling elite, and these guys are cutthroat competitors, even before dawn. I boarded, squeezed into a middle seat and glanced around for famous people. No luck. Just a lot of dark suits, white shirts and male pattern baldness. Soon the flight attendants came by and tossed me a bag. There was a bagel in it. Well, sort of a bagel. A Presbyterian bagel, near kin to Wonder Bread. In the car, you can eat whatever you can stuff into one hand. Except that Car Man was committed to a nonstop drive, which put a practical limit on the volume of refreshments that could be consumed. The car has the advantage of privacy, meaning you can shriek at the passing world, hurl your trash on the floor, crank up the radio -- whatever makes the hours go by. The D.C.-N.Y.C. route passes through some decent radio territory, most notably the eclectic music of WXPN (88.5 FM in Philadelphia), the free-form stylings of WFMU (91.1 in northern New Jersey), jazz great WBGO (88.3 in Newark), hot talker New Jersey 101.5 along the turnpike, and the nation's original, still best all-news station, WINS (1010 AM in the Apple). But sitting for four hours without a break is inevitably tiresome. Whatever the distractions, you're still stuck in the car. Overall Satisfaction • Snaking through the rail yard like a moray eel, the Acela is impressive -- something no one has said about an Amtrak train in a long time. It's fast, comfortable, downright cool. And expensive -- at $143, this train is barely cheaper than the plane. • The air shuttle may be the world's least romantic mode of travel, but if you've got money and you're in a hurry, it works. • The automobile is neither fast nor easy, but it's yours. It offers the illusion of affordability -- with E-ZPass, you need hardly ever reach into your pocket. But 24 hours in a New York garage is easily $50, and can top $100. • Door to door, the bus trip cost all of $42.60, which can't be beat. The chance to read, chat and sleep are big pluses, too, but the time investment is considerable. Final overall results: Train, plane, car, bus. © 2001 The Washington Post Company ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00c601c0cdb3$91692100$7e01a8c0_@_0018982498> References: <001d01c0cdae$fb8561c0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:14:27 -0700 From: "Eric Miller" Subject: (rshsdepot) Union Station Postcard Available NEW TODAY! E-City Postcards has made an electronic postcard of LA's Union Station available for sending at www.ecitypostcards.com. Eric W. Miller www.ericwmiller.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3AE71A9B.F5A4F09B_@_ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:42:36 -0700 From: William Church Subject: (rshsdepot) ISTEA Funding In regards to the ISTEA funding, I can attest to it's impact on depot preservation. Here in Whittier, California the former Southern Pacific passenger and freight depot sat empty for many years, after it was uprooted to make way for a retail center it sat for another 7 years until the City of Whittier received an ISTEA grant of $1.2 million, after 2-3 applications, for it's renovation. Today, it sits at it's new location, with work 85% complete, where it will become home to the City's local transit office, an interchange point with the Los Angeles MTA bus service, with the freight house becoming available for community meetings and presentations. On a side note to the restoration, the Depot was equiped with a Fairbanks No. 8 scale whose under floor mechanism has been damaged and whose above floor ballance column is long gone. Fairbanks nolonger has any drawings nor catalogs on this model from which to base a repair/restoration. Should anyone know of a similar scale please contact me with details. Thank you, William Church ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005e01c0cdb9$2d13f3a0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> References: <3AE71A9B.F5A4F09B_@_ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:54:37 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) ISTEA Funding The most recent Bulletin featured an article with many pictures about the renovation and moving of the Whittier, CA depot. The article was authored by Mr. Church. Jim Dent - ----- Original Message ----- From: William Church To: Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 2:42 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) ISTEA Funding > In regards to the ISTEA funding, I can attest to it's impact on depot > preservation. Here in Whittier, California the former Southern Pacific > passenger and freight depot sat empty for many years, after it was > uprooted to make way for a retail center it sat for another 7 years > until the City of Whittier received an ISTEA grant of $1.2 million, > after 2-3 applications, for it's renovation. Today, it sits at it's new > location, with work 85% complete, where it will become home to the > City's local transit office, an interchange point with the Los Angeles > MTA bus service, with the freight house becoming available for community > meetings and presentations. > > On a side note to the restoration, the Depot was equiped with a > Fairbanks No. 8 scale whose under floor mechanism has been damaged and > whose above floor ballance column is long gone. Fairbanks nolonger has > any drawings nor catalogs on this model from which to base a > repair/restoration. Should anyone know of a similar scale please contact > me with details. > > Thank you, > > William Church > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:52:20 EDT From: BGEEP40_@_aol.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Ferguson, MO Depot to Reopen... The Ferguson, Missouri depot is slated to reopen this Saturday. After a stormy decision as to what to do with the remodeled depot, it will now be an ice cream parlor/city museum. I do not know if it contains any rail artifacts at this time. I believe this was a former Wabash depot, but some of you may have more info on that. They are supposed to have an NS unit in a ribbon-running ceremony, but I do not know the time. My wife saw the spot on TV, but did not catch the time. Butch G. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <011101c0cdfa$75cd97e0$a657c0d8_@_paul> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:41:44 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Big Apple Bound: Is Getting There Half the Fun? When I drive into NY I pay nothing-park on Riverside Drive anywhere north of 72nd, it's free and you can leave it there all night and day-better move it before the alternate side of the street parking for sweeping next morning, though! Paul - -----Original Message----- From: James Dent To: RSHS List Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) Big Apple Bound: Is Getting There Half the Fun? >Not quite depot related, but interesting, from the Washington (DC) Post... > >Big Apple Bound: Is Getting There Half the Fun? > >By Marc Fisher, Steve Hendrix, Peter Carlson and Gary Lee >Washington Post Staff Writers >Wednesday, April 25, 2001; Page C01 > >Once upon a time, like last year, if you had to get from Washington to New >York, you went by plane if you had big money, by train if you had plenty of >time, by car if you had a deep personal need for masochistic experiences, >and by bus if you had nothing at all. > >Now, everything has changed. Amtrak's new Acela Express train travels >nonstop between Union and Penn stations in 2 hours 28 minutes, almost half >an hour off the former rail champion, the Metroliner. And the E-ZPass -- the >plastic transponder you attach to your windshield so you can speed through >toll booths while guffawing at suckers waiting in endless lines -- slices a >good 20 minutes off the drive, and much more on trying holiday weekends. >Imagine: Better living through technology! > >To test the new world of East Coast Metroplex commuting, The Post sent four >reasonably willing reporters to New York, by US Airways shuttle (Peter >Carlson), Acela Express (Steve Hendrix), car (Marc Fisher) and Peter Pan bus >(Gary Lee). The race commenced in pitch darkness at 6:15 on a weekday >morning at the Post building in downtown Washington and ended at the paper's >New York bureau on West 57th Street. > >We were under no illusions that this was an even race. Clearly, planes move >faster than buses; even newspaper reporters understood that much. But the >hype artists at Amtrak argue that in a door-to-door matchup, Acela is >competitive with the air shuttles. And at least one of us strongly believed >that a nonstop driver could beat the train and, with a boost from some of >those patented LaGuardia Airport "volume delays," perhaps even the plane. As >for the bus, well, it's cheap. > >So who won? > >We could focus on the horse race, but that would be wrong. In fact, what we >had here was really a test of four modes for speed, comfort and overall >satisfaction. > >Speed > >Air Man just knew he was going to win the race to Manhattan. One simple >reason, he reports: I was flying. I was cocky. I was confident. I was >downright arrogant. My competitors would be bound by gravity, slithering >across the surface of the Earth like snakes. I'd be zooming through thin >air, like a bird, like a plane, like Superman. > >The only way he could lose, he figured, would be to miss the 7 a.m. shuttle, >which, as he stood in the pre-dawn drizzle trying to hail a cab, began to >seem fairly likely. There weren't many cabs on 15th Street at 6:15 in the >morning -- or at 6:20, or 6:25. Several drove right past him, but one >finally stopped and Air Man made it to the US Airways shuttle building by >6:40, whereupon he made like O.J. to the gate. > >The plane landed right on time at 8. After a long, slow taxi to the >terminal, we arrived at 8:08. I did another mad dash out of the airport and >hopped intoa cab at 8:15. As soon as my butt hit the seat, the meter read >$2.00. Welcome to New York! > >The cab lurched through traffic, arriving on 57th Street at 8:40, whereupon >we crept, we crawled. Finally, at 8:53, I paid the cabby $24 and jumped out >at Sixth Avenue, hoofing the last block to The Post's bureau, arriving at >8:57. > >Elapsed time: 2 hours 42 minutes. > >Train Man almost missed the Acela because he stayed at the Post building to >gloat over Air Man helplessly flailing his arms at taxis. But at 6:20, Train >Man jogged over to the Farragut North Metro station, made his way to Union >Station and hit the platform with four minutes to spare. > >Train Man reports that the Acela may look like a toppled rocket, but at >precisely 6:50, it took off more like a royal sedan chair, a slow smooth >rollout into the rain with nary a herk or a jerk. By 7:05, we had cleared >the D.C. clutter and were clacking along at speed. I got up for train >travel's greatest luxury: a walk. > >The Acela doesn't actually travel any faster than other passenger trains -- >125 mph is the speed limit for all trains between Washington and New York. >But the Acela can maintain higher speeds on the curves than the older rigs. > >When I told the train crew I was competing in this race, they started plying >me with advice, shortcuts to the subway, even which escalators at Penn >Station were the least crowded. They wanted me to win. > >At 9:20, the Acela nosed into the slip at Penn Station. Outside, the taxi >line was horrendous. But Train Man had an ace to play; while strolling >through the Acela, he had happened upon an executive of a certain capital >city newspaper, a train partisan who had a car waiting in New York. > >Train Man hitched a ride and scooted uptown. Half a block from the finish >line, he bailed out and ran the last leg. > >Up the elevator and down the hall, I burst into the Post bureau looking at >my watch and yelling, "9:36! 9:36!" > >But Air Man had already been there for 39 minutes. Elapsed time: 3 hours 21 >minutes. > >Car Man, meanwhile, had taken advantage of his head start. While the others >made their way across Washington to reach their modes of transportation, Car >Man zoomed through the dark, up 16th Street NW, past a drug dealer doing >business in the open at Harvard Street. Twelve minutes and nine red lights >to the District line, 17 minutes to the Beltway, which was blessedly empty >at 6:31. > >Fighting annoying drizzle, then heavy rain, he moved through Baltimore and >its suburbs traffic-free. He passed two troopers in Maryland, but they >seemed not to mind his liberal interpretation of the speed limit. > >The E-ZPass did him no good at the long lines at Maryland's two tolls; the >Free State insists on its own incompatible transponder system. But Delaware >cooperates with states to the north, and the pass saved probably five to >seven minutes there. > >Ach! Car Man reports. I knew I would hit someone's morning rush, and it >turns out to be Delaware's. (Isn't it too small a state to have a rush >hour?)Standstill traffic hits at 7:47, and I creep all the way to the bridge >to New Jersey -- a 10-minute setback. > >Despite the weather, Car Man made fine time, scooting through E-ZPass lanes >on the New Jersey Turnpike at 45 mph, past dozens of waiting cars, arriving >at the Holland Tunnel (the radio reported massive backups at the Lincoln, >far less of a wait at the Holland) at 9:29. > >Manhattan traffic was light, and Car Man arrived at a garage one block from >the finish line at 9:57. He ditched the car, ran the last block and entered >the bureau at 10:03 -- 27 minutes behind Train Man. Elapsed time: 3 hours 48 >minutes. > >Bus Man, at that moment, was still somewhere in New Jersey. His 7 a.m. Peter >Pan coach had been scheduled to arrive in New York at 11:20. > >Oh, sure, Bus Man had muttered to himself on his way to the terminal on >Capitol Hill. On several earlier bus trips, the estimated 4 1/2-hour journey >had taken far longer due to traffic snarls or other snafus. One steamy >August evening, mechanical failure had forced a Greyhound into a dismal >shopping mall somewhere off the Jersey Turnpike. That trip lasted 6 1/2 >nerve-racking hours. So I knew I was the tortoise pitted against three >hares. Winning would take a freak of nature or a miracle. > >Bus Man gave himself 25 minutes to get to the bus terminal via Metro and >foot. He arrived at the terminal at 6:34, only to find 12 other people ahead >of him in the ticket queue. He didn't reach the agent until 6:53. He >galloped over to the bus, only to hear the driver bark, "We're full up. The >rest of you will have to wait for the next bus out." > >Boom -- a one-hour delay. So much for a miracle. But the 8 o'clock nonstop >got going right on time. "We'll be arriving in New York at 12:20," the >driver, a burly silver-haired matron, announced over the loudspeaker. "Or >thereabouts." > >When we pulled into Port Authority terminal, it was 11:50. Yes! A full >half-hour ahead of schedule. Slinging my backpack over my shoulder, I made >haste through the crowded terminal, upstairs and down the corridor to the A >Train. > >Bus Man arrived at 12:10 -- 5 hours 55 minutes after he left Washington. >Even if he had gotten on the 7 a.m. bus, he still would have been more than >an hour behind Car Man. > >Comfort > >Our results on speed alone: plane, train, car, bus. But add comfort to the >computation and everyone changes places: train, bus, plane, car. > >The Acela wins this one easily. Acela cars, unlike other trains, are bolted >together for shudder-free starts and stops. New and spotless, the train has >the clean, efficient look of those high-tech public toilets in cities like >Copenhagen and Oslo. The dining car is as bright and roomy as a SoHo sushi >bar. A TV is tuned for stock market jockeys, the right programming for a >train full of laptops and cell phones. With sparse crowds, the express train >has no line for coffee and muffins. There's always a roomy lavatory to be >had. In fact, demand is so light on the express train that, on Monday, >Amtrak will add a single stop -- and two minutes to the run -- to pick up >more fares in Philadelphia. > >The bus makes a surprisingly strong showing here. As Bus Man notes, low cost >should not be confused with shabbiness. With two well-cushioned, comfortably >reclining seats to himself, Bus Man takes in great views of Baltimore, >Philadelphia and other scenic points. Thoroughly vacuumed and swept >overnight, the bus is neat and tidy. Even the toilet is clean. And there are >no screaming babies, loud teenagers, boomboxes or other noisemakers. > >By comparison, the shuttle ride is an exercise in agita. Despite the >ludicrous hour, Air Man faces a line at the check-in counter, where a guy in >a dark pinstriped suit elbows him out of the way with his briefcase and cuts >in front of our reporter. > >Air Man: The New York to Washington shuttle is the crosstown bus of >America's ruling elite, and these guys are cutthroat competitors, even >before dawn. I boarded, squeezed into a middle seat and glanced around for >famous people. No luck. Just a lot of dark suits, white shirts and male >pattern baldness. Soon the flight attendants came by and tossed me a bag. >There was a bagel in it. Well, sort of a bagel. A Presbyterian bagel, near >kin to Wonder Bread. > >In the car, you can eat whatever you can stuff into one hand. Except that >Car Man was committed to a nonstop drive, which put a practical limit on the >volume of refreshments that could be consumed. > >The car has the advantage of privacy, meaning you can shriek at the passing >world, hurl your trash on the floor, crank up the radio -- whatever makes >the hours go by. The D.C.-N.Y.C. route passes through some decent radio >territory, most notably the eclectic music of WXPN (88.5 FM in >Philadelphia), the free-form stylings of WFMU (91.1 in northern New Jersey), >jazz great WBGO (88.3 in Newark), hot talker New Jersey 101.5 along the >turnpike, and the nation's original, still best all-news station, WINS (1010 >AM in the Apple). > >But sitting for four hours without a break is inevitably tiresome. Whatever >the distractions, you're still stuck in the car. > >Overall Satisfaction > >• Snaking through the rail yard like a moray eel, the Acela is impressive -- >something no one has said about an Amtrak train in a long time. It's fast, >comfortable, downright cool. And expensive -- at $143, this train is barely >cheaper than the plane. > >• The air shuttle may be the world's least romantic mode of travel, but if >you've got money and you're in a hurry, it works. > >• The automobile is neither fast nor easy, but it's yours. It offers the >illusion of affordability -- with E-ZPass, you need hardly ever reach into >your pocket. But 24 hours in a New York garage is easily $50, and can top >$100. > >• Door to door, the bus trip cost all of $42.60, which can't be beat. The >chance to read, chat and sleep are big pluses, too, but the time investment >is considerable. > >Final overall results: Train, plane, car, bus. > > > >© 2001 The Washington Post Company > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <15.1346b5bc.2818e978_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:01:12 EDT From: Mrhorn55_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) New List Jim I followed your instructions to verify/signup for the new list. Ran into two problems (nut behind the wheel type). Do not put anything in the subject line. Copy and paste the confirmation string to avoid any manual copying errors. After I did this on the second try IT WORKED GREAT..... Thanks Dick Horn ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3AE79135.CA63686F_@_erols.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:08:37 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) "Real" railroads in NY City Streets Received from Kenyon F. Karl... None of the railroad cars in the photograph have the 'radial couplers' and rounded ends required for operation on the very sharp curves that are usually encountered on city streetcar trackage. There still remains a very small chance that the cars were moved ONE AT A TIME over the streetcar track using a special coupler with jointed drawbar between the locomotive and freight car. Additional confirmation that interurban freight cars complying with specifications established by the Central Electric Railroad Association were rarely (if ever) handled by the nearby steam railroads, thus there is little reason for an interuban freight car from the midwestern trolley lines to stray into New York City. Kenyon F. Karl Kenyon_Karl_@_mail.com http://www.new-england-rail-trails.org http://www.new-england-public-transit.org http://www.northernrailtrail.org http://www.trainweb.org/nhrra - -----Original Message----- From: rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net [mailto:rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of Paul S. Luchter Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:09 AM To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "Real" railroads in NY City Streets By 1910, the 4th Avenue line south of Grand Central is doubtful for how they got there...perhaps they were somehow transferred to the streetcar tracks, maybe onto the 14th Street line, or other line that crossed the rail on the west side...otherwise it might be lighted over and a temporary float bridge, since here is evidently a temporary siding... Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Steven Delibert To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Monday, April 23, 2001 11:47 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) "Real" railroads in NY City Streets >NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. >To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the thumbnail image(s) for the listed filename(s). >http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/listthumb.cgi?/lists/rshsdepot-photo/rshsdep ot-04-23-01 > >AveD14thSt.jpg (image/jpeg, 19403 bytes) > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Following on our thread several months ago about comings and goings of New >York Central and predecessors in city streets south of 42nd Street, here's a >photo of a plant under construction at Ave D and 14th Street around 1910 -- >along one side (I can't tell if it's 14th St or Ave D) are what look like >real class I RR freight cars. How would they have gotten there? Were there >branches that far over from the NY&H line down 4th Avenue and Bowery? Were >there once carfloats and float bridges onto the east side as there were so >many onto the west side? Or . . . ? >Thanks >Steve Delibert > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <013c01c0ce00$e47700e0$a657c0d8_@_paul> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:27:56 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "Real" railroads in NY City Streets I presume this building is no longer there....Avenue D and 14th St. was last intersection before the East River.....no rail is shown on old maps I have, but there was a long pier extending off 14th, so...Hall of Records...platt map... Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dent To: RSHS List Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 11:09 PM Subject: (rshsdepot) "Real" railroads in NY City Streets >Received from Kenyon F. Karl... > >None of the railroad cars in the photograph have the 'radial couplers' and >rounded ends required for operation on the very sharp curves that are >usually encountered on city streetcar trackage. There still remains a very >small chance that the cars were moved ONE AT A TIME over the streetcar track >using a special coupler with jointed drawbar between the locomotive and >freight car. Additional confirmation that interurban freight cars complying >with specifications established by the Central Electric Railroad Association >were rarely (if ever) handled by the nearby steam railroads, thus there is >little reason for an interuban freight car from the midwestern trolley lines >to stray into New York City. > >Kenyon F. Karl >Kenyon_Karl_@_mail.com >http://www.new-england-rail-trails.org >http://www.new-england-public-transit.org >http://www.northernrailtrail.org >http://www.trainweb.org/nhrra > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net >[mailto:rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of Paul S. Luchter >Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:09 AM >To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) "Real" railroads in NY City Streets > > >By 1910, the 4th Avenue line south of Grand Central is doubtful for how they >got there...perhaps they were somehow transferred to the streetcar tracks, >maybe onto the 14th Street line, or other line that crossed the rail on the >west side...otherwise it might be lighted over and a temporary float bridge, >since here is evidently a temporary siding... > >Paul >-----Original Message----- >From: Steven Delibert >To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net >Date: Monday, April 23, 2001 11:47 PM >Subject: (rshsdepot) "Real" railroads in NY City Streets > > >>NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. >>To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following >URL into your web browser and click/select the thumbnail image(s) for the >listed filename(s). >>http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/listthumb.cgi?/lists/rshsdepot-photo/rshsde p >ot-04-23-01 >> >>AveD14thSt.jpg (image/jpeg, 19403 bytes) >> charset="iso-8859-1" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>Following on our thread several months ago about comings and goings of New >>York Central and predecessors in city streets south of 42nd Street, here's >a >>photo of a plant under construction at Ave D and 14th Street around 1910 -- >>along one side (I can't tell if it's 14th St or Ave D) are what look like >>real class I RR freight cars. How would they have gotten there? Were >there >>branches that far over from the NY&H line down 4th Avenue and Bowery? Were >>there once carfloats and float bridges onto the east side as there were so >>many onto the west side? Or . . . ? >>Thanks >>Steve Delibert >> ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3AE7A1D5.D6904E3_@_swbell.net> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:19:33 -0500 From: "Paul R. Metzler" Subject: (rshsdepot) Webster Groves (MO) Frisco Station I would like to introduce myself and my "Club". I have been a "listener" to the group for about the last 6 months, but haven't gotten up the energy to join the RSHS, YET! I am the president of the Big Bend Railroad Club, Inc., a model railroad club (O Scale; 1/4" to the foot scale, 2-rail) with a REAL interest in prototypical railroads and historical stations ------- especially since we own the former Frisco station in Webster Groves, MO. Our club has been operating our model railroad in this station through a lease agreement with the Frisco-BN-BNSF since sometime in the late 30's, with only a brief break when a significant number of the members took time out to serve their country in WWII. The Springfield & Ozark RR (modelled after a shortline that ran between Springfield and Ozark, MO, for some very short time) is close to being the oldest operating model rr in the US. In 1994, the BNSF moved the last of its signal crews out of their portion of the building and offered the BBRC two alternatives; either make way for the bulldozers, or buy the building. Was there a choice? We now hold title to a 92 year old building and a very generous land lease from the BNSF. We have been been able to keep a portion of history from ending up as part of America's less scenic landscape -- the landfill --, but maybe not for very much longer. The building needs some repairs and could use some sprucing up, maybe even some minor renovation or restoration. Thus, I come to the RSHS. I have read numerous emails about one or another station being renovated or rebuilt, but have no idea where or how to locate such assistance. And the most recent notes about the ISTEA funding seems a god-send. Can anyone help? Point me in the right direction of where to inquire, write, or even call? The BBRC has received 501c (3) (or, whatever, I am no tax person!) non-profit status from the IRS, and have just renewed our charter with the state of MO for another 50 or so years. Please help if you can. About the RSHS membership. Please send information on how I, personnally, join the RSHS and maybe the BBRC as a club. Thank you. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #51 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002401c0ce59$7a9a07e0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> References: <3AE7A1D5.D6904E3_@_swbell.net> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:02:06 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Webster Groves (MO) Frisco Station Paul, Links to two good sources of information are below. The first is to the Great American Station Foundation (GASF). The GASF website has includes a number of articles pertaining to your interest. The particular link below discusses a number of potential funding sources. http://www.stationfoundation.org/toolkit/findmoney.html The second link is to the National Trust for Historic Preservation (NTHP). They also provide similar info, plus how-to articles in many areas of actual physical restoration. The NTHP also provides funding in certain instances. http://www.nthp.org/ Information and an application form to join the RSHS are at: http://www.trainweb.org/rshs/Join%20the%20RSHS.htm I hope this helps. Jim Dent ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3AE7A1D5.D6904E3_@_swbell.net> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:11:08 -0400 From: "Kenyon F. Karl" Subject: RE: (rshsdepot) Webster Groves (MO) Frisco Station Historic Transportation Facilities is just one of some 14 catagories for the Transportation Enhancements Program of TEA-21 (formerly ISTEA). The primary key to this funding is the support of a committee of the Regional or Metropolitan Planning organization in your area of the state - as well as an equivalent panel at the State DOT level that chooses your project for the 'short list' that will be funded in a given one-year or two-year cycle (or the like). Consequently, political support at the regional and State level will be an important factor in winning the funding. Community or 'transportation' usage of the space formerly occupied by the signal crew in your building might be an important factor in obtaining that grant. Thus, a grant that includes money for renovation of that room and associated toilet facilities for use by one (or more) of the following would win points: * the Chamber of Commerce (or the like) as a motorist-oriented visitor information center. * a non-profit bus service or Amtrak as a public transit waiting room. * an organization that will provide toilets, showers, lockers, etc for bicycle commuters * an information center & toilet facilities for a rail-trail that passes next to or near the building. * Space for historical displays by the local historical society (open on a regular basis) * A meeting room that is used frequently by a variety of community organizations. Note that every measure that reveals important portions of your layout to visitors and local citizens will likewise be important to your application, since it is probably both 'transportation related' and 'historical' in many respects. There may be some useful information at the National Transportation Enhancements Clearinghouse Web Site. Kenyon F. Karl Webmaster_@_new-england-rail-trails.org http://www.new-england-rail-trails.org - -----Original Message----- From: rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net [mailto:rshsdepot-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of Paul R. Metzler Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 12:20 AM To: rshsdepot_@_lists.railfan.net Cc: kc0es1_@_juno.com Subject: (rshsdepot) Webster Groves (MO) Frisco Station I would like to introduce myself and my "Club". I have been a "listener" to the group for about the last 6 months, but haven't gotten up the energy to join the RSHS, YET! I am the president of the Big Bend Railroad Club, Inc., a model railroad club (O Scale; 1/4" to the foot scale, 2-rail) with a REAL interest in prototypical railroads and historical stations ------- especially since we own the former Frisco station in Webster Groves, MO. Our club has been operating our model railroad in this station through a lease agreement with the Frisco-BN-BNSF since sometime in the late 30's, with only a brief break when a significant number of the members took time out to serve their country in WWII. The Springfield & Ozark RR (modelled after a shortline that ran between Springfield and Ozark, MO, for some very short time) is close to being the oldest operating model rr in the US. In 1994, the BNSF moved the last of its signal crews out of their portion of the building and offered the BBRC two alternatives; either make way for the bulldozers, or buy the building. Was there a choice? We now hold title to a 92 year old building and a very generous land lease from the BNSF. We have been been able to keep a portion of history from ending up as part of America's less scenic landscape -- the landfill --, but maybe not for very much longer. The building needs some repairs and could use some sprucing up, maybe even some minor renovation or restoration. Thus, I come to the RSHS. I have read numerous emails about one or another station being renovated or rebuilt, but have no idea where or how to locate such assistance. And the most recent notes about the ISTEA funding seems a god-send. Can anyone help? Point me in the right direction of where to inquire, write, or even call? The BBRC has received 501c (3) (or, whatever, I am no tax person!) non-profit status from the IRS, and have just renewed our charter with the state of MO for another 50 or so years. Please help if you can. About the RSHS membership. Please send information on how I, personnally, join the RSHS and maybe the BBRC as a club. Thank you. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00b401c0ce76$b494fe60$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:31:19 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Spring Hill Tower, Terre Haute, IN -From Trains.com News Wire... Indiana tower group to move former CP. Spring Hill Tower to museum next week One down, one to go. The Haley Tower Historical & Technical Society in 1999 successfully moved its namesake tower 50 feet, from the crossing of CSX’s CE&D Subdivision (the former Chicago & Eastern Illinois, later Louisville & Nashville) and the former Conrail St. Louis Line (at one time the Vandalia Line, then Pennsylvania Railroad, and Penn Central) in Terre Haute, Ind., to the Wabash Valley Railroaders Museum. Next week it will move the former Canadian Pacific Spring Hill Tower from the junction of CP. and CSX lines in Terre Haute to the museum, 5 miles to the north. The society took ownership of Spring Hill Tower on June 1 last year from CP., which sold the white, wood-frame structure to the society for $10. The tower, CP’s last lever switch tower in the U.S., guarded the crossings of three lines for 89 years on Terre Haute's south side. Spring Hill Tower was a busy place, as the Chicago, Terre Haute & Southeastern, Chicago & Eastern Illinois, and the Evansville & Indianapolis railroads crossed there. The tracks now belong to CP. and CSX. The CTH&SE built the current Spring Hill Tower in 1910, replacing an earlier one erected in the late 1890s along a towpath of the old Wabash & Erie Canal. Through acquisitions, the tower became the property of successors Milwaukee Road and Soo Line, before CP. bought out full Soo ownership. CP. closed the tower, which housed the dispatcher for CP’s otherwise isolated southern Indiana trackage, in 1999. (CP. trains reach the Terre Haute area from Chicago on CSX trackage rights). The signaling and switches were converted to remote control, and the dispatchers were transferred to Jasonville, Ind. The tower still holds 16 of the original 40 4-foot-tall metal levers that operators used in order to throw switches and line signals. The society has raised half of the $40,000 cost of moving the tower. Those wishing to assist the society’s fund-raising efforts can make contributions to the Spring Hill Tower Fund at any Terre Haute First National Bank location. Or, they can be mailed to the society at P.O. Box 10291, Terre Haute, IN 47801 c/o Spring Hill Tower. For further information contact historical society President Bill Foster at (765) 832-9117, or visit the group’s Web site at www.haleytower.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003301c0c889$a98c68c0$4868afce_@_paul> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:45:04 -0700 From: Dan Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Canarsie station flowered trolley loop Paul S. Luchter > if you can somehow translate the grammar of the first sentence And of course he wants to be taken seriously. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004c01c0ceb8$81c2b760$0a45c0d8_@_paul> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:22:18 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Canarsie station flowered trolley loop ? ż - -----Original Message----- From: Dan To: RSHSDepot Date: Thursday, April 26, 2001 6:45 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Canarsie station flowered trolley loop >Paul S. Luchter > >> if you can somehow translate the grammar of the first sentence > >And of course he wants to be taken seriously. > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005301c0cebd$de89fda0$0a45c0d8_@_paul> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:00:40 -0400 From: "Paul S. Luchter" Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Canarsie station flowered trolley loop Canarsie RR: The Brooklyn, Canarsie & Rockaway Beach RR-1865; reorganized as Canarsie RR-1906, even though this is what everyone called it for years...A side wheeled steamer brought travelers to Hammel's on the north side of the Rockaways, of the Rockaway Peninsula. New York's first "resort"... Hammel's is approximately where the current elevated subway line enters south off of Jamaica Bay, also where the bridge from the Cross Island enters Rockaway today... I have never found out when the Canarsie line ceased these Steamboats...Probably soon after the South Side RR in 1869, or whatever year the SS completed to Rockaways.. Later in 1906 it was electrified and leased to the Brooklyn Union Elevated, and El cars ran down on the surface, mid-block south of Rockaway Parkway until 1927, when the trains began terminating at Rockaway Parkway and the use of the flowered trolley loop commenced. A free trolley shuttle took you to the shore. My Dad went to the amusement park there as a child. This was a free transfer. This Elevated Railroad streetcar on it's own ROW, with many street crossings, ran until 11/21/1942. {The El was a different division of the BMT (BRT ended not long after the Malbone Street disaster/crash) than the streetcar system] The free transfer to the Canarsie shore was transferred to the BRT streetcars, the Rockaway Avenue and Wilson Avenue lines which ran down Rockaway Parkway. May 27, 1951-last day of streetcar service on both these lines; the free transfer transferred to a bus. I took it as a kid. The free transfer would still be today, but I think every bus is a free transfer today. Those big black three door, three car-articulates, (three cars, four trucks. Big bolts lining the cars, City of New York still and always written above in a railroad font (to use the incorrect computer term for a typeface), the white cane poles, art-nouveau curved white ceramic loops to grab above on a white pole, white wicker seats that lasted without somehow tearing for decades, some 50 years....the rolling destination signs which still contained Park Row and Fulton El and all sorts of "exotic" routings; that tremendous aroma of ozone, of "metallic", that they gave off. The maddening rumble, the sounds of acceleration, it was maybe the best subway trip, the portholed windowed aluminum cars on the N train were neat too)..Some jerk melted every single set down. They have two car articulates at the museum, but they are dainty in comparison to the Canarsie trains. Only the SIRT old cars ever came close (on those the doors may have been operated by the conductor) The site on the flowered trolley loop is nice, but it was hard to follow. The run-on sentence at that site was meant to convey what I wrote above (except the near-poetic moment about riding those massive Canarsie beasts, oh so wide with three huge fans on the ceiling, oh they were so great. Even as I garble the grammar above a bit, I think you get what it means. It follows in order... You may not take it seriously, that is your problem. Paul November 21, 1942 - -----Original Message----- From: Dan To: RSHSDepot Date: Thursday, April 26, 2001 6:45 PM Subject: Re: (rshsdepot) Canarsie station flowered trolley loop >Paul S. Luchter > >> if you can somehow translate the grammar of the first sentence > >And of course he wants to be taken seriously. > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3AE8F394.2F774FE8_@_erols.com> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 00:20:36 -0400 From: Jim Dent Subject: (rshsdepot) Photo: CN Truax, SK depot now at Pasqua, SK Photos of the CN Truax, SK depot now at Pasqua, SK Brian D. Switzer from The Railfan.net Usenet ABPR Picture Archives. http://www.railfan.net/railpix/ABPR/march01/03-18-01/CNoR_Truax_at_Pasqua_SK_01009-34.jpg ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3AE93CF6.5ED5CCE4_@_bellsouth.net> References: <005301c0cebd$de89fda0$0a45c0d8_@_paul> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 05:33:43 -0400 From: Seth Bramson Subject: (rshsdepot) B-M. T. Friends: Although I recognize this may be a tad off topic, I wonder, since so many of our folks are so incredibly knowledgeable regarding New York traction operations, if one or more of you could answer the following question: When (and for how many years if you know) did the BMT use the hyphenated version of the name. I. E., showing their name on signs and badges as Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit. Was it when they first bought out the BRT? I saw a hat badge recently with B-M.T., a number below that, and the word "Conductor" below the number. I do recall the very early usage of the hyphen but wonder if I could trouble any of you good people to elaborate, and thank you in advance for your input and trouble. Cordially, Seth. ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #52 ****************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00ae01c0cf42$eb3cdec0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:53:08 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Anniston, AL NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser and click/select the thumbnail image(s) for the listed filename(s). http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/listthumb.cgi?/lists/rshsdepot-photo/rshsdepot-04-27-01 amtrak0427.jpg (image/jpeg, 15561 bytes) charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -From the Anniston (AL) Star Online... All aboard ... By Nathan Solheim Star Staff Writer 04-27-2001 PHOTO: Bill Wilson/The Anniston Star: An Amtrak train pulls into the Anniston station. Need a lift? The Anniston City Council is close to wrapping up a decade-long process to acquire the Fourth Street Railroad Depot. City leaders hope to use more than $1 million in grants to renovate the historic depot to serve as a multi-modal transportation center. The price of the train depot, $55,000, is awaiting approval from the current owner of the property, Norfolk-Southern Railroad. By constructing the transportation center, city leaders hope to provide: · Safe and reliable transportation for Anniston residents. · Centralized transportation facilities that could anchor future transportation needs and concerns. · Increased economic activity in the Zion Hill area of Anniston. Anniston City Council member John Norton, who has been involved with the project during his tenure on the City Council, recently outlined the city's plans to build and fund the center. The purchase of the property will trigger the state, federal and foundation grant money needed for immediate costs and for future costs of the project. "That's the reason it's been so critical, and why I've worked so hard on finalizing the purchase of the facility," Norton said. Current projections put an $800,000 price tag on the whole project. The rest of the projected grant money will be used to upgrade the facility's amenities. Though not all plans have been completed, Norton hopes The Anniston Express, Greyhound Bus Lines, Amtrak and at least one local taxi company will use the facility. Norfolk-Southern will remain a part of the facility, but in another building on the property. Plans call for the complex to include a coffee shop, restroom facilities, shelter from the elements and a long-term parking area. Plans also call for extra space so bus liners can turn around. The train depot itself also will get a makeover. Plans call for the depot, which Amtrak currently uses, to be restored to its previous historic luster. Scott Barksdale, executive director of The Spirit of Anniston, wants to insure the depot's attention to historic detail and aesthetics. "It'll almost be a marketing tool for us," Barksdale said. "Everything will flow out of the hub." There are also tentative talks in a preliminary stage to place an Anniston Police sub-station in the area. City leaders say the proposed project could play a role in giving a lift to the Zion Hill area of Anniston. The proposed transportation center is in the ward of Anniston Council member Ben Little. He said the project will have an impact on the area and the city. "I think centralizing the transportation will make things more conducive to get around as a whole, and we'll make the area nice for people," Little said. "I think (improving the community) is one of feed offs and … it's one thing that should help with us trying to put a facelift on the community." Little and others say the center will bring people to the downtown area, and could make Anniston a destination for travelers. "We want people to see (Anniston) is a beautiful place and it's a lovely place with good transportation and it's clean," Little said. "That's what we want to impress on people; it's a win-win situation." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00b401c0cf43$52b92e00$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:56:02 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Lutz, FL Last year's all-volunteer rebuilding of Lutz's train depot is being honored in a community design competition. The Lutz community in general and the Lutz Civic Association received an "Award of Excellence" from the Hillsborough County City/County Planning Commission. Two other area projects, built more conventionally, also were to receive design awards. The University Area Community Center is receiving an "Outstanding Contribution to the Community" award, the highest category. And St. Mark the Evangelist Catholic Church's new church and family-life area was to receive an "Award of Recognition." Chris Waldman, the Planning Commission's team leader for public participation, said the University Area Community Center reflected planning among a wide array of community groups, even youth gangs. It was built for growth and for myriad uses. "I just can't believe how many aspects of the community are coming together to help this neighborhood," she said. Input from young people, in particular, could account for the fact that the building has remained free of gang graffiti, she said. St. Mark the Evangelist was commended for creating a community center in the process of building a church, Ms. Waldman said. "It's an environmentally sensitive area and they really respected that and incorporated it very nicely into the site plan," she said. Organized to serve fast-growing New Tampa, St. Mark had its origins seven years ago when the Diocese of St. Petersburg bought 27 acres on Cross Creek Boulevard. Today the church serves approximately 1,300 families. A $4.6-million center, designed in contemporary style, is the first phase of the church's building plans. The Lutz depot, by contrast, is architecturally faithful to an early railroad depot at U.S. 41 and Lutz-Lake Fern Road. "Lutz Junction," as the railway connection was called, was shortened to "Lutz" when the town received a post office in 1913. The recreated depot functions today as a community stage. Ms. Waldman said judges favored the Lutz depot project because the community designed it and provided input every step of the way, because it pays homage to Lutz's history, and because it "has become a center of community life." Citizens and businesses donated more than $50,000 in money, labor and materials. "You just don't see this kind of cohesiveness in a community," Ms. Waldman said. "We want to hold this up as an example of what communities can do for themselves." Ron Stoy, the Lutz Civic Association officer who led the effort as chairman, said the independence and community spirit that made the depot project possible is "just endemic to our area. It's just our nature." ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00d601c0cf45$9220f3a0$f18d6ca5_@_itochu.com> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:12:07 -0400 From: "James Dent" Subject: (rshsdepot) Lutz, FL -From the St. Petersburg (FL) Times... Lutz train depot garners award The rebuilding effort on the old depot by community volunteers is honored with the "Award of Excellence.'' By BILL COATS Last year's all-volunteer rebuilding of Lutz's train depot is being honored in a community design competition. The Lutz community in general and the Lutz Civic Association received an "Award of Excellence" from the Hillsborough County City/County Planning Commission. Two other area projects, built more conventionally, also were to receive design awards. The University Area Community Center is receiving an "Outstanding Contribution to the Community" award, the highest category. And St. Mark the Evangelist Catholic Church's new church and family-life area was to receive an "Award of Recognition." Chris Waldman, the Planning Commission's team leader for public participation, said the University Area Community Center reflected planning among a wide array of community groups, even youth gangs. It was built for growth and for myriad uses. "I just can't believe how many aspects of the community are coming together to help this neighborhood," she said. Input from young people, in particular, could account for the fact that the building has remained free of gang graffiti, she said. St. Mark the Evangelist was commended for creating a community center in the process of building a church, Ms. Waldman said. "It's an environmentally sensitive area and they really respected that and incorporated it very nicely into the site plan," she said. Organized to serve fast-growing New Tampa, St. Mark had its origins seven years ago when the Diocese of St. Petersburg bought 27 acres on Cross Creek Boulevard. Today the church serves approximately 1,300 families. A $4.6-million center, designed in contemporary style, is the first phase of the church's building plans. The Lutz depot, by contrast, is architecturally faithful to an early railroad depot at U.S. 41 and Lutz-Lake Fern Road. "Lutz Junction," as the railway connection was called, was shortened to "Lutz" when the town received a post office in 1913. The recreated depot functions today as a community stage. Ms. Waldman said judges favored the Lutz depot project because the community designed it and provided input every step of the way, because it pays homage to Lutz's history, and because it "has become a center of community life." Citizens and businesses donated more than $50,000 in money, labor and materials. "You just don't see this kind of cohesiveness in a community," Ms. Waldman said. "We want to hold this up as an example of what communities can do for themselves." Ron Stoy, the Lutz Civic Association officer who led the effort as chairman, said the independence and community spirit that made the depot project possible is "just endemic to our area. It's just our nature." ------------------------------ End of RSHSDepot Digest V1 #53 ******************************