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From: "JimG AT graytrainpix" graytrainpix AT jimgworld DOT com
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 23:01:48 -0400
Subject: Re: (erielack) Northern Branch Move
"BR_NorthernSwitch.jpg" - image/jpeg, 578x300 (24bit)

Thanks Bill. I'm old enough to recall those weekends in the 1960s on the
NY Division when you would hardly see F-Units or 2nd Generation power on
a road freight. All or most of the RS2's and 3's and GP7's from
Sparkill, Woodbine, Suffern, Waldwick, Midvale and Dover would make
their way to Croxton Yard on Friday evening for road freight service,
and you'd see 4 or 5 unit lash ups of suburban power as far west as Port
Jervis. Someone told me that occasionally a set of suburban engines
might make it as far as Hornell on Saturday. Good memories!

Back to the Northern Branch passenger train back-up move, I thought that
I would point out that BR and the Northern Branch were arranged a bit
differently at the time from what is shown on my 1973 map. I have
attached another map showing the approximate layout of BR when it was
controlled by Grove Street Tower - Erie side (can confirm the layout by
checking the photos of the control panel inside Grove St./Erie side that
are found in Henderson's book "Four Great Divisions").ﾂ The Northern
Branch leads went all the way down to BR interlocking (parallel to the
Croxton Yard leads); the switch to the Northern Branch was part of this
interlocking plant. Thus, the freights coming out of Croxton for the
Northern had to back all the way to BR, get a signal to enter, proceed
towards the Long Dock tunnel (partly entering it), then wait to be lined
up and get a signal for the Northern. I once asked a former Erie
engineer about this and he remembered this move.

After the Northern passenger trains ended in 1966 and then Grove
Street-Erie side was closed in 1967, BR was "de-interlocked". I.e., all
of the BR switches became manually thrown, with no more home signals.
The EL also re-located the switch between the Northern and the Croxton
freight leads north / west of BR, as shown in blue on the map (this
location is near the big plywood warehouse). With that arrangement,
Northern local freights didn't need to go all the way down to Tonnelle
Avenue and into BR interlocking to make their back-up move to and from
Croxton to the Northern. Hope I got all that right! FYI, Jim Gerofsky

On 6/22/2022 12:47 AM, William Sheppard wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Having worked as operator at ex-Erie Grove Street and HX Tower,
> I concur with your explanation of how Northern Branch passenger
> trains operated backward between BR and Bergen Junction en
> route to and from Hoboken Terminal. That said, I also recall that
> on Friday evenings, the locomotives and cars of the 3 Northern
> Branch passenger trains would be consolidated at Sparkill, NY
> and run as an extra train to Hoboken so that the locomotives
> could then be utilized in freight service on weekends. A return trip
> from Hoboken to Sparkill would subsequently occur the following
> Monday morning in time to run 3 passenger trains that day.
>
> Bill Sheppard
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JimG@graytrainpix
> To: erielack@lists.railfan.net
> Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2022 11:38 pm
> Subject: (erielack) Northern Branch Move
>
>
> NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment.
> To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the
> following URL into your web browser:
>
>
> http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-06-20-22
>
> CroxtonAreaMap73c.jpg (image/jpeg, 1398x2134 228851 bytes, BF: 13.04 ppb)
>
> Ken and all -- one reason why the Northern Branch trains got to and from
> Hoboken via a back up move on the High Line was that there was a form of
> signal control and protection on the High Line up thru the end of
> passenger service.ﾃつ From what I have been told by former EL operators,
> there was a signal "traffic" set-up for the single-tracked High Line
> between the Bergen Junction interlocking controlled by HX Tower (where
> the Northern trains backed over to or from the Bergen County Line
> passenger connection to the Main Line / former DL&W Boonton Line, and
> thence to West End Tower, the Bergen Tunnels, and Hoboken Terminal), and
> BR interlocking, as controlled by ex-Erie Grove Street Tower (where the
> trains backed over from the Archway approach to and from the Northern
> Branch).ﾃつ There were not any actual signals on the High Line between
> these points. But, once an operator at one end cleared a signal for a
> train to enter the High Line, the operator for the interlocking at the
> other end could not clear a contradictory signal.ﾃつ For example, if HX
> gave an eastbound train a signal to enter the High Line at Bergen
> Junction, Grove Street could not pull a signal at BR to allow a
> westbound movement from the Archway track onto the High Line. The Erie
> set up this system in 1956 as part of the overall track changes that
> were made to allow the Hoboken change-over and eventual Pavonia
> abandonment.
>
> Such protection would not have been available had the Northern passenger
> trains used the Greenwood Lake Lead and Third Track between BR and DB.
> The Erie theoretically could have wired up this route for traffic
> locking between DB and BR, but there was the complication of the Old
> Loop coming off the Third Track between DB and BR; freight moves off the
> Old Loop could enter the hypothetical passenger route without signal
> control.ﾃつ The High Line was a "straight route" between Bergen Junction
> and BR, no diverging lines; thus slightly safer for passenger trains
> making back-up moves.
>
> PS, with thanks to Rich Wisneski for his feedback, I've attached another
> version of my map which corrects the track alignment at the point where
> the Third Track passed under the High Line and where the Old Loop
> branched off.ﾃつ The overall routes are the same as in previous maps, but
> the track geometry at that point is more accurate now. I've also
> adjusted the position of the passenger connection between the two Bergen
> Junctions (connecting the Bergen County Line nee Erie Main Line with the
> EL Main Line nee DL&W Boonton Line) as to be a little closer to where
> the Main Line passes over the Third Track. However, the relative
> positioning is still not accurate. This map is not drawn to scale; it is
> intended more as a route map than an actual aerial-view ground map. Thus
> there are distortions in the relative positions of points along any
> latitude or longitude line.ﾃつ What could be done to fix that is to
> download a true map image from the NJ GIS mapping web site, and re-draw
> this map over that image.ﾃつ One day I might do that. The other option
> would be to shell out for professional mapping software and learn to use
> it.ﾃつ That probably won't happen.
>
> Final PS -- this map reflects the track arrangements in the 1970s. Back
> in the late 50s and early 60s when the Northern Branch trains made their
> back-up moves, the High Line and Third Track and Greenwood Lake Lead
> (which was the former westbound Greenwood Lake passenger track from BR)
> did not come together at the NYS&W overhead bridge to Marion; the two
> lines ran parallel all the way to BR and the line into the Archway.
>
> Remember, trains coming off the High Line or Greenwood Lake Lead could
> only go into the Archway, not into the Long Dock freight tunnel. Thus
> the Northern Branch passenger back up move stopped on the Archway track,
> just west of the western entrance to the Archway. I never got to ride
> these trains, but I have seen a photo of this.
>
> Jim Gerofsky
>
>
>
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BR_NorthernSwitch.jpg

Image EXIF Data:
Image Creation Date   2022:06:22 22:23:06
Software Version   Adobe Photoshop Elements 8.0 Windows
X Resolution   72 Pixels/Inch
Y Resolution   72 Pixels/Inch
Exif Image Width   578 pixels
Exif Image Height   300 pixels
ColorSpace   Uncalibrated


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