From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <15a.2c94182b.2d4d2292_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:24:02 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Running engines at a higher throttle possition. FYI FYI Reply from a friend who worked in the Scranton Diesel shops for many years. Bob: There was never any instruction to speed up engines because that would be counter to the instructions to remove the reverser handle from unattended locos BUT the switchers (EMD SW1 and NW2 and the ALCO S2) as delivered did not have thermostats and water flowed through the radiators at all times with the belt driven fans running causing them to run very cold when not in use.We installed thermostats to those locos which helped but we also used canvas drop curtains on these locos and also on the SwF, SW9, and SW1200. On a cold winter night we usually ran these locos at higher throttle for an hour or so before the crew would come on duty to get the cab warm. (You know how crews like warm cabs!) I don't recall any of the road units having this problem. Jim Ratchford Dlw1el2_@_aol.com wrote: > > Jim > There had been a whole lot of dissuasion on the EL list, about running > engines in higher then idle in cold weather. Like notch 2 or 3. Do > you remember the Lackawanna ever advising of this? How about the > EL? > > Would certain engines freeze up quicker than another if say the > temperature was below 0 out? > > Bob > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <15d.2cac2adc.2d4d2bd6_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:03:34 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) industrial track? In a message dated 1/22/2004 3:41:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, DLW1155_@_aol.com writes: If you are referring to the track which runs parallel to the Morristown Line behind old HUDSON Tower that is the Center Street Branch which was a former PRR track. Permission to occupy the Center Street Branch must be obtained from the South Kearny Yardmaster. There is one remaining customer in Harrison at the end of the line, a chemical firm. NJT also interchanges with Conrail Shared Assets there as well. The signals governing movements on and off of it are controilled by the M&E Distpatcher as they are part of Kearny Jct. Interlocking. Al Holleuffer Believe it or not its controlled by the Bayonne Yard Master ( Shared Assets ). The Shared Assets job that goes down there works out or S. Kearny I believe. Bob ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <410-220041631195540542_@_earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:55:40 -0500 From: "Philip Martin" Subject: RE: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. The L&HR had a microphone at a spot between Andover and Belvidere, called "the tin man." When the dispatcher wanted to know where his train was, he would call the tin man on his selector. When the train passed, he would hear it. Philip Martin martinpl3_@_earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: David J. Monte Verde > To: erielack > Cc: CDMV > Date: 1/25/2004 6:22:11 PM > Subject: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. > > The west end (Buffalo Div.) of the Lackawanna had a open line block phone and each station would "OS trains to the dispatcher in Buffalo. As a kid I used to sit in the Dansville office and listen as each Agent-Operator along the line would report xtra 604-C by Bath at 6:54, Cohocton, Wayland and then you would know in a few minutes the train would be rolling down Dansville Hill. There was CTC passing sidings at B&O Jct., Groveland, Wayland, and Bath, but the line had automatics in between, so the agent operators provide a progress record for the dispatcher. > > Each station had a telegraph key and sounder (Dansville's resides in my collection) and when the Dispatcher would want to call a station or station to station they would use the telegraph to call the agent-operator. It has been said that an operator could sleep through and telegraph chatter and wake up when his telegraph letters were called. There is a complete listing of telegraph call letters for the Buffalo Division I posted on Elwood's list a few years back. > > Regards David MV ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <77.2180c045.2d4d6cd4_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:40:52 EST From: Smtimko_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. The EL (Erie) had automatic OS'ers on the 1st Sub Divn between SN and North Randall. I'm not certain if it was in the double track era or after the line was reduced to single track but I think it was the former. When a train passed a location---Solon, Mantua, Jeddoe or Garrettsville, or wherever they were, one of those points the automatic OS'er would send out a code on the DS line, and it would continue to send the code until the DS would 'ring' it off. Each of the locations had a specific code, such as 2 long, 2 short or 1 short, 3 long, etc. By the time that I started working in the DS office (on the first sub) in about 1967, they were gone. You could not rely on them to report a train 'clear' but you knew where the train was. Hopefully Cal Banse can add to this info as I'm certain he used them. SMT ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <160.2b1d6644.2d4d786d_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:30:21 EST From: DLW1155_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) A Train Master from Atlas... With sound??? Sure sounds like an F-M to me. Are you hinting at something maybe?? Hmmmmmm? Al Holleuffer ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1dd.198c6ce9.2d4d8ac3_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:48:35 EST From: Wdburt1_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Pushers between Hornell and Cuba Since my last post on this subject I had an opportunity to review several local newspaper articles from before World War One. They confirmed that before the River Line opened the Erie used pushers to assist freights between Hornell and Cuba. The pushers got into the newspaper because they were constantly tangling with train movements. A Mother Hubbard pusher backing around a right hand curve, with the engineer unable to see and the fireman unable to talk to him, was a recipe for disaster--one of the reasons the Erie decided to stop ordering them and the ICC outlawed new purchases a few years later. There were several wrecks at Cuba for this very reason. One of the articles also confirmed that the pushers used a turntable at Cuba. This might be the water-filled pit I explored as a kid, located at the west end of the old narrow gauge yard, which the neighboring landowner told me was the old BE&C/TV&C narrow gauge turntable pit. The biggest brown snake I ever saw slithered into that pit when I approached. An 1882 "birds-eye view" (drawing) shows another turntable--clearly an Erie turntable, not BE&C or TV&C--right next to the West Main Street grade crossing and Erie depot. WDB ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1ed.18665813.2d4dbd02_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:22:58 EST From: ELdispatcher_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. List, The device Mr. Martin refers to is called an annuciator. When the dispatcher keyed up the location on the selector box it activated an open microphone to the dispatchers wire so that the dispatcher could then hear the passing train. When I was a dispatcher in Wyoming on the UP we had an open annunciator (one that was working on the open dispatchers circuit all the time) . In UP's case it was at Curvo Utah so that the dispatcher could monitor passing eastward (uphill) trains as they approached Wahsatch, Utah. To mess with the crewmembers heads I would lean over to the dispatcher's wire with my headset so that the mike would pick up the sound. Then I would key the nearest radio tower and broadcast the noise over the radio. You should have heard the radio chatter.. "Sounds like someone has an open mike". "Boy that train is really struggling" etc. It was best done on midnights as the LAXM was roaring uphill at about 45 mph and then played over the radio channels. Rich Pennisi ELHS #615 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <31.43716182.2d4dd759_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:15:21 EST From: Smtimko_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. Following from retired Erie, EL and Conrail Youngstown Train Dispatcher Cal Banse. Cal is responding to the post about the automatic OS'ers on the 1st Sub west of Leavittsburg. SMT We had just two automatic OS'ers both on the First Sub. I don't remember having them after single tracking but my memory is hazy on this. One was Eastbound at Solon the other was Westbound at Mantua. They sent out Morse Code on the Disprs wire which he had to ring off. Solon was ESO (. ... . .) and the ringoff selector was 10-3-A. 10-3-B cleared up the signal, 10-3-C set signal to pull in and report clear, and 10-3-D set signal to stop and call for instructions. The other was WNA (--. -. .-), I'm a little hazy on the W. There was no OS'ers for Garrettsville or Mahoning. Garrettsville was controlled by pull boxes at Mantua as was the Eastbound siding at Mantua. Mahoning was controlled by pull boxes at Phalanx until it was closed then moved to Garrettsville, I believe. Sometimes when weather disrupted the phone lines you had to sit there and listen to that Damned OS'er sounding off with no was to ring it off. Sometimes you couldn't clear up the signal for the same reason, but basically they work quite well until the radio came along. ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1180 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006901c3e8d3$ced4c560$8a69b23f_@_y6p6m1> References: <77.2180c045.2d4d6cd4_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:58:03 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. OS'ers and open Stations that OSed trains(I have been told that OS= On Station, but I have also heard it is On Circuit, but I don't know where the "S" came from) gave a dispatcher train location information on large sections of railroad where they had automatic signals and which they were in between control points(CP*). For example on the DL&W: Buffalo to B&O Jct.(CP location), there and PRR Junction Mt. Morris (open station), Mt Morris & Groveland (CP location), there and Dansville (open station), there and Wayland (CP location), there Cohocton (open station) and Bath (CP location. The Erie also had a large area that had automatics (and no CTC Control Points CP's) between Hornell and Corning, with, maybe in early years with open stations (to OS trains) at Canisteo, Cameron, and Addison. An interesting thing about the Erie they had "poor man's CTC", this is where there was a double semaphore and the dispatcher could set the lower blade semaphore to stop (remotely from his office), and the train would stop and call the dispatcher and be told to open the switch and take the siding. The Erie had these at Canaseraga west,and in between Addison and Cameron, both locations had a center siding where it could be used by either a eastbound or westbound train, with a universal crossover at bot ends. Each of these locations had a telegraph call letter name like "QN" which was on a metal plate on the signal. They also had a double semaphore at "VN" just west of Hornell for a train to stop and call the dispatcher for instructions on yarding his train at Hornell. VN and the center siding along with the double semaphores lasted into Conrail, the Addison center siding was eliminated in EL days, but appeared in some later timetables with its "two letter call" name but was only a crossover. Can anyone look up the call letters for these center sidings? I believe that the ERIE had center sidings and "Poor Man's CTC" elsewhere? Regards David MV *CP's or Control Points was a name that was coined later I believe? The Lackawanna did have CTC (Centralized Traffic Controlled) locations at B&O Jct., Groveland, Wayland, and Bath that sent back train location as a train approached these points, and there were automatic block signals in between that gave no train location back to the dispatcher. They merely kept the trains safely spaced, & dispatch relied on open stations to OS the trains by them which he would write on his dispatcher's sheet, and thereby know when they would be at the next CP, if he was anticipating a siding meet for this train. Being somewhat prodigious, the Lackawanna's Buffalo Division was quite a fast piece of railroad with a nice signaling system in place (with cab signals) that moved the varnish & freight! Regards David MV - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 3:40 PM Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. > The EL (Erie) had automatic OS'ers on the 1st Sub Divn between SN and North > Randall. > > I'm not certain if it was in the double track era or after the line was > reduced to single track but I think it was the former. > > When a train passed a location---Solon, Mantua, Jeddoe or Garrettsville, or > wherever they were, one of those points the automatic OS'er would send out a > code on the DS line, and it would continue to send the code until the DS would > 'ring' it off. Each of the locations had a specific code, such as 2 long, 2 > short or 1 short, 3 long, etc. > > By the time that I started working in the DS office (on the first sub) in > about 1967, they were gone. You could not rely on them to report a train 'clear' > but you knew where the train was. > > Hopefully Cal Banse can add to this info as I'm certain he used them. > > SMT > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1a4.1f5c6697.2d4e71de_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:14:38 EST From: Smtimko_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. Dave Thanks for information on something that I was thinking about yesterday......you refer to 'poor man's CTC' as we all did, but on the Erie and EL those devices were known as "Telephone Train Order Signals." We had several on the Mahoning Division that were the PRR sytle position light signal mounted under the searchlights. The displayed the following: Three vertical lights---Proceed. Three horizontal lights---Stop Three angular lights---Pull in Siding--Passenger trains call before pulling in siding They were kind of like a 'holding signal or CP Point, but you were forbidden to use them to 'hold a train' Without searching an employee's timetable I know they were in use at North Randall EB, SN JCT (West bound at Liberty Steel Road ----now known as MLK Blvd) Avon (EB for Mosier Yard), Westlake's Crossing EB (to protect the Yo Passenger Station), Boyce Crossover WB ( at the east end of Ferrona Yard) and maybe others. Also, Warren Ticket had Red East or Red West holdouts to protect the Warren Gauntlet and in later years, after the derailment and single tracking at Niles, Deforest had Red East and Red West holdouts for Niles. At these two locations, you could make the signals EITHER Red East or Red West, but not both. Think Sharon Single track was handled that way from either Ferrona Yard Office or Sharon Ticket also. They were also used on the Allegany and Meadville Divisions at various locations. SMT ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <10e.2ba239fb.2d4e72e4_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:19:00 EST From: JJLofland_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Amherst(Springfield) Train Meet If you are going to go to the Amherst train meet next weekend, make sure you visit Central Hobby's location in the Young Building. On display and available for purchase will be the Dunmore caboose and the DL&W caboose. You will also find the first run of the Erie 29000 hoppers we are putting out. Joe Lofland JJLModels ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <013a01c3e8d7$1a6d76e0$8a69b23f_@_y6p6m1> References: <3c.3a8821e8.2d4e724a_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:21:42 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. = OS Bob Bahrs just sent me a note: Dave I thought it stood for On Sheet. Bob That makes more sense, because the dispatcher would be writing the times ON his SHEET! Regards David MV ----- Original Message ----- From: Smtimko_@_aol.com To: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com ; dmvgvt@earthlink.net ; martinpl3@earthlink.net ; erielack@lists.railfan.net Cc: railman_@_frontiernet.net ; drums3386@yahoo.com ; caltrains@cboss.com ; cwnewton@mindspring.com ; dougellison@stoneconsulting.com Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:16 AM Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. = OS We should form a committee and find out for sure........I've been worrying about this for at least 45 of my 56 years..........It could drive one to drink. smt ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <120.29dadb9d.2d4e7416_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:24:06 EST From: ELdispatcher_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. List, In my EL book that came out about 2 years ago, I have explanations of Telephone Train order signals as well as locations of such on the railroad. Rich Pennisi ELHS #615 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3c.3a8821e8.2d4e724a_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:16:26 EST From: Smtimko_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. = OS We should form a committee and find out for sure........I've been worrying about this for at least 45 of my 56 years..........It could drive one to drink. smt ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <19d.1ff45d8e.2d4e7186_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:13:10 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. = OS In a message dated 2/1/2004 10:01:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net writes: OS'ers and open Stations that OSed trains(I have been told that OS= On Station, but I have also heard it is On Circuit, but I don't know where the "S" came from) Dave I thought it stood for On Sheet. Bob ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <165.2a99dfff.2d4e7519_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:28:25 EST From: DLW1155_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) industrial track? Bob and all, The current NJT System Timetable No. 8 Special Intructions General Order 801 Special Instruction governing the Center Street Branch is as follows: Special Instruction ME 98-2 CENTER STRETT BRANCH Movements on the Center Street Branch at Cape will be authorized by the Raritan Valley Line Dispatcher. Movements on the Center Street Branch at Kearny Jct. will be authorized by the Morristown Line Dispatcher. For movements east of cape or west of Kearny Jct. permission will be obtained from the CSX Yardmaster at South Kearny. For movements between Cape and Kearny Jct. permission will be obtained from the Morristown Line Dispatcher. Al Holleuffer ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <106.2bc0faf1.2d4e7995_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:47:33 EST From: DLW1155_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) NEW F&C BORDENS MILK CARS Just saw an announcment in the latest Model railroader for two different Bordens Milk cars from Fernaro & Camerlingo and am wondering how close these are to the ones that were used on the DL&W? I also have to old Nickle Plate Products brass ones. Are these correct or close, also? Al Holleuffer ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1075650861.401d212df1b3c_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: <10e.2ba239fb.2d4e72e4_@_aol.com> In-Reply-To: <10e.2ba239fb.2d4e72e4_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:54:21 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: Re: (erielack) Amherst(Springfield) Train Meet Thanks Joe, I am planning to go and will be sure to check it out. - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting JJLofland_@_aol.com: > If you are going to go to the Amherst train meet next weekend, make sure you > > visit Central Hobby's location in the Young Building. On display and > available for purchase will be the Dunmore caboose and the DL&W caboose. You > will > also find the first run of the Erie 29000 hoppers we are putting out. > > Joe Lofland > JJLModels > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040201110658.006b168c_@_mail.copper.net> In-Reply-To: <106.2bc0faf1.2d4e7995_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:06:58 -0500 From: JJordan Subject: Re: (erielack) NEW F&C BORDENS MILK CARS Al- Acually there are five different models including Milk & Chemical Tank cars. Here are some pictures of the Funaro & Camerlengo models. Most of them ran on both the DL&W & Erie in particular the Borden and Sheffield cars. All of them come with decals for about six different companies. http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=FUN-1010 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=FUN-1011 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=FUN-1012 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=FUN-1013 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=FUN-1014 - -Joe Jordan 20th Century Hobbies, Inc. At 10:47 AM 2/1/04 EST, you wrote: >Just saw an announcment in the latest Model railroader for two different >Bordens Milk cars from Fernaro & Camerlingo and am wondering how close these are >to the ones that were used on the DL&W? I also have to old Nickle Plate >Products brass ones. Are these correct or close, also? > >Al Holleuffer > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <401D4EBC.1070102_@_netsync.net> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:08:44 -0500 From: Michael Dickinson Subject: (erielack) EL blue boxcar ELers, This has probably been covered before but. How common were the blue boxcars? I see them on Ebay all the time. I think that they were around toward the end. What were they used for and were they around the whole system or just the East end Mike Dickinson ELHS #837 "Hey what is that big shiny warm thing in the sky" :-) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <183.256c1e54.2d4ee3d0_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:20:48 EST From: Wdburt1_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) OS and Erie RR center siding call signs OS -- On Sheet (or so I always thought) Center sidings: XY Waverly QZ Addison CN Cameron CS Canaseraga In 1993 Erie Railroad official P.R. Frisbie told me that he fired a westbound anthracite extra during the early 1920s, back when Erie still operated anthracite extras to Chicago (he said). The power was two hand-fired Russians. The train took siding at the Cameron center siding and he ran down the river to plunge his burning arms in the water. WDB ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000101c3e91b$118d0830$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <401D4EBC.1070102_@_netsync.net> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:28:15 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL blue boxcar Mike, The "blue" cars were built at the end of 1974 (Nov. and Dec.), and were dedicated to General Foods service (hence the blue color). They traveled the system, though the GF plant was in New Jersey (Clifton, I think?). The cars could be seen anywhere in the US. They hauled food products, as far as I can tell... - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of > Michael Dickinson > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:09 PM > To: EL List address > Subject: (erielack) EL blue boxcar > > > ELers, This has probably been covered before but. How common were the > blue boxcars? I see them on Ebay all the time. I think that > they were > around toward the end. What were they used for and were they > around the > whole system or just the East end > Mike Dickinson ELHS #837 > "Hey what is that big shiny warm thing in the sky" :-) > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <401DAC79.7010102_@_verizon.net> References: <000101c3e91b$118d0830$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <000101c3e91b$118d0830$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 20:48:41 -0500 From: bill guimes Subject: Re: (erielack) EL blue boxcar Paul, Mike: They were painted blue to signify that they were not part of the EL property, or so I remember. That was around the time EL went into bankruptcy, and General Foods owned or leased the cars through the EL or something convoluted (dedicated service?). Anyway, by painting the cars blue, they were somehow different from the rest of the EL cars. Bill Paul R. Tupaczewski wrote: > Mike, > > The "blue" cars were built at the end of 1974 (Nov. and Dec.), > and were dedicated to General Foods service (hence the blue color). They > traveled the system, though the GF plant was in New Jersey (Clifton, I > think?). The cars could be seen anywhere in the US. They hauled food > products, as far as I can tell... > > - Paul > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net >>[mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of >>Michael Dickinson >>Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:09 PM >>To: EL List address >>Subject: (erielack) EL blue boxcar >> >> >>ELers, This has probably been covered before but. How common were the >>blue boxcars? I see them on Ebay all the time. I think that >>they were >>around toward the end. What were they used for and were they >>around the >>whole system or just the East end >>Mike Dickinson ELHS #837 >>"Hey what is that big shiny warm thing in the sky" :-) >> >> > > > - -- Be a Locomotive Engineer: Its the most fun you can have with 3000 HP ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: References: <160.2b1d6644.2d4d786d_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 21:10:33 -0500 From: "curtis pope" Subject: Re: (erielack) A Train Master from Atlas... With sound??? I got this message too from Atlas and was wondering/hoping it was a trainmaster! They made a great N scale version so why not an HO Model? I'm no expert on sound but it does remind me what little I have heard. Curt Pope - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 4:30 PM Subject: Re: (erielack) A Train Master from Atlas... With sound??? > Sure sounds like an F-M to me. Are you hinting at something maybe?? > Hmmmmmm? > > Al Holleuffer > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 23:20:01 -0500 From: Michael DeCarlo Subject: (erielack) Port Morris Picture's and a few questions. NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-01-04 PtMorYard2Big.jpg (image/jpeg, 710822 bytes) PipeStand3.jpg (image/jpeg, 182968 bytes) PipeStand4.jpg (image/jpeg, 172577 bytes) PtMorWyeRailsHeater1.jpg (image/jpeg, 159224 bytes) PtMorWyeSwi1.jpg (image/jpeg, 180180 bytes) PtMorWyeSwi2.jpg (image/jpeg, 142702 bytes) PtMorWyeSwi3.jpg (image/jpeg, 155746 bytes) PtMorSigBridge1.jpg (image/jpeg, 162566 bytes) PtMorTow1.jpg (image/jpeg, 149189 bytes) PtMorTower2.jpg (image/jpeg, 145761 bytes) PtMorTower3.jpg (image/jpeg, 135833 bytes) Hi, I went over to Pt. Morris today to get some pics of the tower and yard. I left the yard overview pic big so you can really see all the detail. The others are resized to 800X600. Seeing some of the artifacts still left there left me with a couple of questions. Were the switches at the wye and the Jct to the old main air operated or strong arm\cable? There is a long stretch of raised pipe stands going from the tower to the end of the wye. There is still pipe left on some of the stands. Was this an air pipe for the switches or a propane pipe for the switch heaters? There is still track on the wye coming out of the yard. At the end of this track, there is parts of the switch machine still there. There are rams on the switch that appear to have been air operated. There is also some remains of switch heaters too. This is why I'm wondering what kind of switches were there and what the pipe was used for. I have seen pictures of the tower in EL days and there was a propane tank near it. So I guess the pipes leading away from the tower could have been either air or propane. Anyone know? Also, I was up there years ago and the ties were still in place. Today all the ties are bulldozed into piles and the roadbed is clear for at least 1/4 mile from the tower. Are there still plans for NS to build a few tracks here to clear up space in East Dover? I remember reading that rumor on this list. The pics are: PtMorYard2Big, This is the big picture. It was taken from a newly built fill between the Tower and Yard. The Tower is behind me. PipeStand3 This is the remains of the pipe leading away from the tower. PipeStand4, Here are some of the raised stands that once held the piping. The pipe on this section is long gone. This pic was taken up near the west end of the wye which was off to the left. PtMorWyeRailsHeater1 It's hard to see but, That thing on the side of the rail in the foreground is the remains of a switch heater. There is also some type of valve looking thing here but I forgot to get a pic. PtMorWyeSwi1 This is the last bit of rail left on the NJ Cut Off. The rail goes into the yard, the main is to the left. Note the remains of the switch machine and the road bed washing away beneath it. This is directly above the bridge the river between LK Hopatcong and LK Musconectong runs under. PtMorWyeSwi2 Another view of the switch machine. This is the ram I was talking about above. PtMorWyeSwi3 Another view of the ram. PtMorSigBridge1 These are the only remains of the signal bridge at Pt Morris tower. That's my Bronco in the woods in the rear. I managed to get it up on the ROW where my foot prints go down into the woods. It was a TIGHT fit!! Three pictures of the Tower. There are a lot of my other railroad and canal pictures here: http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/v37/MIKEdc3/ The read only password is pics. Hope you like em. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004b01c3e949$30c04fe0$7a59b23f_@_y6p6m1> References: Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 23:58:23 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: Re: (erielack) Port Morris Picture's and a few questions. NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-01-04 DL_W_Port_Morris_Twr..jpg (image/jpeg, 24777 bytes) Take a look at what was once there! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael DeCarlo" To: "EL List" Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:20 PM Subject: (erielack) Port Morris Picture's and a few questions. > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. > To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: > > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-01-04 > > PtMorYard2Big.jpg (image/jpeg, 710822 bytes) > PipeStand3.jpg (image/jpeg, 182968 bytes) > PipeStand4.jpg (image/jpeg, 172577 bytes) > PtMorWyeRailsHeater1.jpg (image/jpeg, 159224 bytes) > PtMorWyeSwi1.jpg (image/jpeg, 180180 bytes) > PtMorWyeSwi2.jpg (image/jpeg, 142702 bytes) > PtMorWyeSwi3.jpg (image/jpeg, 155746 bytes) > PtMorSigBridge1.jpg (image/jpeg, 162566 bytes) > PtMorTow1.jpg (image/jpeg, 149189 bytes) > PtMorTower2.jpg (image/jpeg, 145761 bytes) > PtMorTower3.jpg (image/jpeg, 135833 bytes) > > Hi, > I went over to Pt. Morris today to get some pics of the tower and yard. I > left the yard overview pic big so you can really see all the detail. The > others are resized to 800X600. > > Seeing some of the artifacts still left there left me with a couple of > questions. > > Were the switches at the wye and the Jct to the old main air operated or > strong arm\cable? > > There is a long stretch of raised pipe stands going from the tower to the > end of the wye. There is still pipe left on some of the stands. Was this an > air pipe for the switches or a propane pipe for the switch heaters? > > There is still track on the wye coming out of the yard. At the end of this > track, there is parts of the switch machine still there. There are rams on > the switch that appear to have been air operated. There is also some remains > of switch heaters too. This is why I'm wondering what kind of switches were > there and what the pipe was used for. I have seen pictures of the tower in > EL days and there was a propane tank near it. So I guess the pipes leading > away from the tower could have been either air or propane. Anyone know? > > Also, I was up there years ago and the ties were still in place. Today all > the ties are bulldozed into piles and the roadbed is clear for at least 1/4 > mile from the tower. Are there still plans for NS to build a few tracks here > to clear up space in East Dover? I remember reading that rumor on this list. > > The pics are: > > PtMorYard2Big, > This is the big picture. It was taken from a newly built fill between the > Tower and Yard. The Tower is behind me. > > PipeStand3 > This is the remains of the pipe leading away from the tower. > > PipeStand4, > Here are some of the raised stands that once held the piping. The pipe on > this section is long gone. This pic was taken up near the west end of the > wye which was off to the left. > > PtMorWyeRailsHeater1 > It's hard to see but, That thing on the side of the rail in the foreground > is the remains of a switch heater. There is also some type of valve looking > thing here but I forgot to get a pic. > > PtMorWyeSwi1 > This is the last bit of rail left on the NJ Cut Off. The rail goes into the > yard, the main is to the left. Note the remains of the switch machine and > the road bed washing away beneath it. This is directly above the bridge the > river between LK Hopatcong and LK Musconectong runs under. > > PtMorWyeSwi2 > Another view of the switch machine. This is the ram I was talking about > above. > > PtMorWyeSwi3 > > Another view of the ram. > > > PtMorSigBridge1 > These are the only remains of the signal bridge at Pt Morris tower. That's > my Bronco in the woods in the rear. I managed to get it up on the ROW where > my foot prints go down into the woods. It was a TIGHT fit!! > > Three pictures of the Tower. > > > There are a lot of my other railroad and canal pictures here: > > http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/v37/MIKEdc3/ > The read only password is pics. Hope you like em. > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005801c3e94a$a40134a0$7a59b23f_@_y6p6m1> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:08:47 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: (erielack) Lackawanna Cut Off Question There are two photos currently on ebay a set of 3 Trainmasters running "wrong Main" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2221387603&category35975 and a set of FT's at Slateford Jct. east bound also running wrong main, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2221815390&category130 my question is,was the Cut Off dual direction running in the mid 50's. or are these just rare shots? Regards David MV ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <005801c3e94a$a40134a0$7a59b23f_@_y6p6m1> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:34:04 -0500 From: Michael DeCarlo Subject: RE: (erielack) Lackawanna Cut Off Question NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-02-04 PICT0068.jpg (image/jpeg, 803114 bytes) The trainmaster photo was taken after the 1958? single tracking. At one time there were 3 tracks past the tower. There was the WB main, the EB main and closest to the tower\station was a passing siding. After the single tracking only the EB main and siding were left. The WB main would have been in the grassy area behind the train. Neat picture though. Attached is a picture of the Greendell tower taken a week ago. This pic is looking east though. The main tracks were to the left. - -----Original Message----- From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of David J. Monte Verde Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 12:09 AM To: erielack Subject: (erielack) Lackawanna Cut Off Question There are two photos currently on ebay a set of 3 Trainmasters running "wrong Main" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2221387603&category35975 and a set of FT's at Slateford Jct. east bound also running wrong main, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2221815390&category130 my question is,was the Cut Off dual direction running in the mid 50's. or are these just rare shots? Regards David MV ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004b01c3e949$30c04fe0$7a59b23f_@_y6p6m1> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:41:34 -0500 From: Michael DeCarlo Subject: RE: (erielack) Port Morris Picture's and a few questions. NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-02-04 PtMorPole1.jpg (image/jpeg, 220915 bytes) See the pole behind the tower, The one with the big antenna? It's still there but on the ground minus the antenna. See the attatchment. BTW. If you want to watch the action at Port Morris yard. I found a lil railfan look out complete with a bench made from a fallen tree and milk crates. There's aeven a garbage bag there too. To get there climb the hill behind the tower. It's right at the top and has a pretty good view of the east end of the yard. - -----Original Message----- From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of David J. Monte Verde Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:58 PM To: Michael DeCarlo; EL List Subject: Re: (erielack) Port Morris Picture's and a few questions. NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-01-04 DL_W_Port_Morris_Twr..jpg (image/jpeg, 24777 bytes) Take a look at what was once there! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael DeCarlo" To: "EL List" Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:20 PM Subject: (erielack) Port Morris Picture's and a few questions. > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. > To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: > > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-01-04 > > PtMorYard2Big.jpg (image/jpeg, 710822 bytes) > PipeStand3.jpg (image/jpeg, 182968 bytes) > PipeStand4.jpg (image/jpeg, 172577 bytes) > PtMorWyeRailsHeater1.jpg (image/jpeg, 159224 bytes) > PtMorWyeSwi1.jpg (image/jpeg, 180180 bytes) > PtMorWyeSwi2.jpg (image/jpeg, 142702 bytes) > PtMorWyeSwi3.jpg (image/jpeg, 155746 bytes) > PtMorSigBridge1.jpg (image/jpeg, 162566 bytes) > PtMorTow1.jpg (image/jpeg, 149189 bytes) > PtMorTower2.jpg (image/jpeg, 145761 bytes) > PtMorTower3.jpg (image/jpeg, 135833 bytes) > > Hi, > I went over to Pt. Morris today to get some pics of the tower and yard. I > left the yard overview pic big so you can really see all the detail. The > others are resized to 800X600. > > Seeing some of the artifacts still left there left me with a couple of > questions. > > Were the switches at the wye and the Jct to the old main air operated or > strong arm\cable? > > There is a long stretch of raised pipe stands going from the tower to the > end of the wye. There is still pipe left on some of the stands. Was this an > air pipe for the switches or a propane pipe for the switch heaters? > > There is still track on the wye coming out of the yard. At the end of this > track, there is parts of the switch machine still there. There are rams on > the switch that appear to have been air operated. There is also some remains > of switch heaters too. This is why I'm wondering what kind of switches were > there and what the pipe was used for. I have seen pictures of the tower in > EL days and there was a propane tank near it. So I guess the pipes leading > away from the tower could have been either air or propane. Anyone know? > > Also, I was up there years ago and the ties were still in place. Today all > the ties are bulldozed into piles and the roadbed is clear for at least 1/4 > mile from the tower. Are there still plans for NS to build a few tracks here > to clear up space in East Dover? I remember reading that rumor on this list. > > The pics are: > > PtMorYard2Big, > This is the big picture. It was taken from a newly built fill between the > Tower and Yard. The Tower is behind me. > > PipeStand3 > This is the remains of the pipe leading away from the tower. > > PipeStand4, > Here are some of the raised stands that once held the piping. The pipe on > this section is long gone. This pic was taken up near the west end of the > wye which was off to the left. > > PtMorWyeRailsHeater1 > It's hard to see but, That thing on the side of the rail in the foreground > is the remains of a switch heater. There is also some type of valve looking > thing here but I forgot to get a pic. > > PtMorWyeSwi1 > This is the last bit of rail left on the NJ Cut Off. The rail goes into the > yard, the main is to the left. Note the remains of the switch machine and > the road bed washing away beneath it. This is directly above the bridge the > river between LK Hopatcong and LK Musconectong runs under. > > PtMorWyeSwi2 > Another view of the switch machine. This is the ram I was talking about > above. > > PtMorWyeSwi3 > > Another view of the ram. > > > PtMorSigBridge1 > These are the only remains of the signal bridge at Pt Morris tower. That's > my Bronco in the woods in the rear. I managed to get it up on the ROW where > my foot prints go down into the woods. It was a TIGHT fit!! > > Three pictures of the Tower. > > > There are a lot of my other railroad and canal pictures here: > > http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/v37/MIKEdc3/ > The read only password is pics. Hope you like em. > > ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1181 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <74.37d2d4bf.2d4f8333_@_aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 05:40:51 EST From: Andrisd_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Faux Erie E8 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2221384531&category=29489 Does anyone know who owns this "Erie" E8 or where it will be diplayed or used? ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040202112954.31123.qmail_@_web41101.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <74.37d2d4bf.2d4f8333_@_aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 03:29:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: Re: (erielack) Faux Erie E8 URHS of NJ, along with 835. The pair is currently stored in Morristown, NJ. Eventuall it's bound for the NJ Transportation Museum if the state legislature ever releases the money to build it. - --- Andrisd_@_aol.com wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2221384531&category=29489 > > Does anyone know who owns this "Erie" E8 or where it will be diplayed or > used? ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <178.252cb26c.2d4f86db_@_aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 05:56:27 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Lackawanna Cut Off Question In a message dated 2/2/2004 12:10:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net writes: my question is,was the Cut Off dual direction running in the mid 50's. or are these just rare shots? Dave Both are taken where the east bound train is at a passing siding location. Bob ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <200402021415.JAA01993_@_technet.tjhsst.edu> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:15:09 -0500 From: "MONTGOMERY| ED" Subject: (erielack) February Calendar This is an interesting shot of two U34's at the bumping blocks at Hoboken. I'm wondering what the occasion for that was? Usually the push-pulls were set up so engines always faced west. Every once in a while one would get turned around but two turned around seemed out of the ordinary. Just what was EL's and NJT's rules on this operation and how did a train get turned around so the engine ultimately did face east? Ed Montgomery ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <111.2daaa347.2d4fb6fb_@_aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:21:47 EST From: ELdispatcher_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) February Calendar Ed, I don't believe they are facing east in the photo. It just might appear that way. The shot looks to be about mid-shed with the locos on the west end. One train out of Dover and on train on the NJ&NY usually the first train out in the morning ran with the loco on the east end in winter to break ice and snow on crossings. Rich Pennisi ELHS #615 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FB6_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:39:36 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL blue boxcar Bill and all, > They were painted blue to signify that they were not > part of the EL > property, or so I remember. That was around the time EL went into > bankruptcy, and General Foods owned or leased the cars > through the EL or > something convoluted (dedicated service?). Anyway, by > painting the cars > blue, they were somehow different from the rest of the EL cars. > Bill I seem to remember reading somewhere that GF originally wanted to buy a lot of 100 of these cars, and were painted up in blue paint, but they decided they didn't want to get into railroad car ownership, and so got their connecting railroads (BN and EL) to purchase them - EL got 75 (and left them in the GF blue) while BN got 25 (which got repainted BN green) - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040202143848.379.qmail_@_web41107.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <200402021415.JAA01993_@_technet.tjhsst.edu> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 06:38:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: Re: (erielack) February Calendar I don't have the calendar, so I don't know the time frame. On a Sunday some time in the late 1980's, a charter trip ran out the Erie side to Warwick and Middletown, NY. During the trip, the consist was wyed at Campbell Hall. On the return, it struck a mounted truck tire between the rails. The engineer had seen it and dumped the air, so damage was minor - the engine's plow took most of the damage. Later, NJT wanted to sue the organizing group for damage to the train. It was pointed out that if the charter hadn't run, the tire would have been struck by the first Main Line train on Monday. That train would have been led by a cab car; at that time the cab card did not have plows. The damage would have been much more serious and a derailment would have been possible. NJT dropped the idea of suing the trip organizers and began running the first train of the day with a locomotive leading - all year round. ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040202150301.8466.qmail_@_web41102.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 07:03:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: (erielack) Fwd: [nyow] Middletown fire - --- Charlie wrote: > To: nyow_@_yahoogroups.com > From: "Charlie" > Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:54:12 -0000 > Subject: [nyow] Middletown fire > > As of this writing,the Middletown O&W is on fire.From what I see the > north end of the bldg is burning.The fire is thru the roof of the > turreted section.Hopefully nobody got hurt.From the little I could > see there are many fire companies present. ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FB8_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:01:04 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) February Calendar Ed Montgomery asked: > This is an interesting shot of two U34's at the bumping blocks at > Hoboken. I'm wondering what the occasion for that was? Usually > the push-pulls were set up so engines always faced west. Every > once in a while one would get turned around but two turned around > seemed out of the ordinary. Just what was EL's and NJT's rules on > this operation and how did a train get turned around so the engine > ultimately did face east? These units are indeed facing west (the angle of the sun shining down on them confirms this; if they were facing east the terminal headhouse would not allow sun to hit them from this angle). Most commuter trains would not reach out beyond the canopies of the station platforms. The "turned around" trainsets were usually a result of a snowfall - the first trains to buck the snow would be led by a U34CH, not a lighter cab-car, hence the reason for turning one of the trainsets. - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040202150522.93738.qmail_@_web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 07:05:22 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hollritt Subject: (erielack) RE: EL Blue boxcar The General Foods distribution center was located on Colfax Avenue in Clifton NJ, along the former DL&W mainline just "Timetable" east of where the DL&W Mainline is merged into the Erie Mainline in Paterson. I recall riding my bike up to Garret Mountian and looking down at the N Scale sized Paterson Yard and seeing it filled with shinny new strange "Blue" EL Boxcars. Must have been 1975. Somewhere I recall seeing an EL add highlighting the NEW General Foods building, boxcars IN trailers OUT. It spoke of how much revenue it would bring EL in 1975. The view from the Garden State Parkway today matches the add perfectly. GF abandoned it sometime after Conrail took over, the large one story building is now for lease or sale, partially occupied... like most of the former EL Customers in the area. Todd- Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 20:48:41 -0500 From: bill guimes Subject: Re: (erielack) EL blue boxcar Paul, Mike: They were painted blue to signify that they were not part of the EL property, or so I remember. That was around the time EL went into bankruptcy, and General Foods owned or leased the cars through the EL or something convoluted (dedicated service?). Anyway, by painting the cars blue, they were somehow different from the rest of the EL cars. Bill Paul R. Tupaczewski wrote: > Mike, > > The "blue" cars were built at the end of 1974 (Nov. and Dec.), > and were dedicated to General Foods service (hence the blue color). They > traveled the system, though the GF plant was in New Jersey (Clifton, I > think?). The cars could be seen anywhere in the US. They hauled food > products, as far as I can tell... > > - Paul - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FBA_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:08:29 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Port Morris Picture's and a few questions. Mike DeCarlo wrote about Port Morris: > See the pole behind the tower, The one with the big antenna? > It's still there but on the ground minus the antenna. See the > attatchment. Ya know, I just noticed that in Dave MV's picture. My guess is that it was a radio repeater (tnere was a tower in North Newark for this purpose, as well). Anyone know for sure? - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040202102900.01710260_@_popd.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <20040202150522.93738.qmail_@_web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:29:00 -0500 From: Joe K Subject: Re: (erielack) RE: EL Blue boxcar At 07:05 AM 2/2/04 -0800, Todd Hollritt wrote: > > The General Foods distribution center was located on Colfax Avenue in Clifton NJ, along the former DL&W mainline just "Timetable" east of where the DL&W Mainline is merged into the Erie Mainline in Paterson. Just a slight correction. The center is actually located on Kuller Road not Colfax. Kuller Road runs parallel to Hazel Street north of Route 46. Joe K ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040202152649.39452.qmail_@_web41109.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FBB_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 07:26:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: RE: (erielack) Fwd: [nyow] Middletown fire Yes, sadly... - --- "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" wrote: > The O&W Middletown.... Station, I assume? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary R. Kazin [mailto:gkazin_@_yahoo.com] > > > > --- Charlie wrote: > > > To: nyow_@_yahoogroups.com > > > From: "Charlie" > > > Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:54:12 -0000 > > > Subject: [nyow] Middletown fire > > > > > > As of this writing,the Middletown O&W is on fire.From what I see the > > > north end of the bldg is burning.The fire is thru the roof of the > > > turreted section.Hopefully nobody got hurt.From the little I could > > > see there are many fire companies present. ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FBB_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:13:50 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Fwd: [nyow] Middletown fire The O&W Middletown.... Station, I assume? > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary R. Kazin [mailto:gkazin_@_yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:03 AM > To: mnjrhs_@_yahoogroups.com; EL List > Subject: (erielack) Fwd: [nyow] Middletown fire > > > > --- Charlie wrote: > > To: nyow_@_yahoogroups.com > > From: "Charlie" > > Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:54:12 -0000 > > Subject: [nyow] Middletown fire > > > > As of this writing,the Middletown O&W is on fire.From what I see the > > north end of the bldg is burning.The fire is thru the roof of the > > turreted section.Hopefully nobody got hurt.From the little I could > > see there are many fire companies present. > > > ===== > Gary R. Kazin > DL&W Milepost R35.7 > Rockaway, New Jersey > http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1075736245.401e6eb5a122c_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: <20040202152649.39452.qmail_@_web41109.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040202152649.39452.qmail_@_web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:37:25 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: RE: (erielack) Fwd: [nyow] Middletown fire Just looked at a variety of websites for local tv stations and newspapers, no mention yet. I haven't had the chance to see this building yet. Was it occupied at all? Damn... - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting "Gary R. Kazin" : > Yes, sadly... ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1075736553.401e6fe9d6d8b_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:42:33 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: (erielack) Middletown Station Update Poster on Railroad.net- "City of Middletown FD responding to fire on the roof of "Old O&W" Station. At 8:32, the entire Middletown FD was committed at the scene with multiple mutual aid companies en route to the scene." "Pretty serious fire. At 0907 they were still calling additional units to the scene. I lost count, but I'm pretty sure there are at least 14 pieces of apparatus there now." "Every FD along NY 17 and I-84 from Monroe west to Port Jervis (actually Greenville) is involved one way or another. Still a glimmer of hope- as of about 9:50 the crews were still operating inside the building." - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040202105628.00910950_@_popd.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <20040202150522.93738.qmail_@_web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:56:28 -0500 From: Joe K Subject: Re: (erielack) RE: EL Blue boxcar At 07:05 AM 2/2/04 -0800, Todd Hollritt wrote: > > The General Foods distribution center was located on Colfax Avenue in Clifton NJ, along the former DL&W mainline just "Timetable" east of where the DL&W Mainline is merged into the Erie Mainline in Paterson. I recall riding my bike up to Garret Mountian and looking down at the N Scale sized Paterson Yard and seeing it filled with shinny new strange "Blue" EL Boxcars. Must have been 1975. > If I recall correctly, before this building was built and before the EL merger, this area was a good sized yard on the DL&W and also, back in the early 1950's or earlier, there was a large tie and/or pole creosote plant located here also. Does anyone have any info on that by chance? Joe K ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1ed.187924e1.2d4fd3bf_@_aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:24:31 EST From: Andrisd_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) RE: EL Blue boxcar Hello, which one if any of the 3 models, Walthers, MDC or Bachmann is a good representation of the blue RBL's? A few of these with Athearns RTR yellow RPL(?) would make an interesting consist. Andy Cole ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <133E63A9.0A242216.007B406A_@_aol.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:16:51 -0500 From: STEVEZ10_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) February Calendar The 2nd unit in the photo #3372 is supposed to be used on NY&GL proposed passenger service on the eastern end of the Boonton line, however I'm not holding my breath just yet! Steve Pellettiere ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FBD_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:39:15 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) RE: EL Blue boxcar The Athearn RTR 50' Youngstown plug door Erie Lackawanna boxcar is an exact match, and is a wonderful model to boot (nicely painted and lettered, metal wheels). Walthers' car is a North American leasing prototype, and is almost exact for the yellow 60000-series NITX/EL cars (you need to remove one of the vertical staffs on either side of the plug door to make it correct). The MDC and Bachmann cars aren't even close... :( - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrisd_@_aol.com [mailto:Andrisd@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 11:25 AM > To: erielack_@_railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) RE: EL Blue boxcar > > > Hello, which one if any of the 3 models, Walthers, MDC or > Bachmann is a good > representation of the blue RBL's? > A few of these with Athearns RTR yellow RPL(?) would make an > interesting > consist. > > Andy Cole > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FBE_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:55:59 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) More comments on Feb. photo The February photo should some neat details for you fans of ephemera like I am... ;) * The roof has what appears to be an enclosed Sinclair-type antenna, as well as a smaller item (cab vent?) just above the sunshades * Note that the "7" on the 3372 has a "straight leg", rather than the gently curved one on the standard EL gothic font - the rest of the numbers conform to the EL standard. Odd! Someone must have tipped GE off to this, as the second batch of U34's came with the "correct" EL 7 (see: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/el3379adk.jpg ) * The two units show a little-noted U34CH variation: The 3356 in the foreground has HEP/MU plugs above the control lines (the smaller plugs, not the larger red and blue plugs) that stick out perpendicular to the pilot face. The 3372 in the background, if you look close, has these plugs coming out at a downward angle (about 30 degrees or so). It looks like only the first few (it looks like 3351-3356) had the perpendicular plugs, and it appears that many of them were retrofitted with the angled plugs. Anyone know what? * The units have yellow corner handrails - as delivered, the first few U34CHs had plain blue corner handrails. When did the FRA regulation on corner handrail visibility take hold? * The 3356 appears to have paint peeling off its headlight casting! * Note the steplight right above the lower step on the 3356 - a neat detail to model... * Also note the "tightlock" coupler - does anyone make a model of that? * The small windows on either side of the main cab side window were there for visibility, does anyone know if it really helped? In NJT years these were replaced with painted plexiglass (to save on safety glass costs) - Paul, still remembering the sounds of these beasts storming out of Boonton every weeknight... :( Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ Lucent Technologies Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 Performance Test Team 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FC4_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:37:27 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) More on the Atlas sound-equipped locomotive... Some analysis from Frank Etzel on the audio file on Atlas' web site: >the u25b pioneered the fan blade connected via driveshaft, hence the discernible " whoosh " that rises and subsides with engine rpm, most other engines have electrical >fans actuated via thermostat ( alco incorporated this in the century series, emd in the tunnel motors ) > >there is definite valve clatter, and a hint of burbling > >I vote for the Century 424-425 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 14:15:00 -0500 From: dennis.j.mcdermott_@_verizon.com Subject: (erielack) Middletown Station Update-pics NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-02-04 DSCN0184.jpg (image/jpeg, 422577 bytes) DSCN0176.jpg (image/jpeg, 436978 bytes) DSCN0177.jpg (image/jpeg, 442393 bytes) DSCN0178.jpg (image/jpeg, 414237 bytes) DSCN0180.jpg (image/jpeg, 410673 bytes) DSCN0172.jpg (image/jpeg, 420397 bytes) charset=us-ascii Folks, Just got back from Middletown. The north end of the O&W station is total burnt out. The local fireman were stating that the insurance were already there and the north end will be demolished ASAP. Here are some pics I took. Dennis (See attached file: DSCN0184.JPG)(See attached file: DSCN0176.JPG)(See attached file: DSCN0177.JPG)(See attached file: DSCN0178.JPG)(See attached file: DSCN0180.JPG)(See attached file: DSCN0172.JPG) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FCD_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:09:16 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Middletown Station Update-pics Dennis, Nice shots, but very depressing... :( Does anyone know what freight customers are left south of here? (the tracks - the old O&W main - can be seen in the snow in some of the pictures). This is the line that the Erie took over when the O&W went under in 1957, yes? - Paul > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image > attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut > and paste the following URL into your web browser: > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-02-04 DSCN0184.jpg (image/jpeg, 422577 bytes) DSCN0176.jpg (image/jpeg, 436978 bytes) DSCN0177.jpg (image/jpeg, 442393 bytes) DSCN0178.jpg (image/jpeg, 414237 bytes) DSCN0180.jpg (image/jpeg, 410673 bytes) DSCN0172.jpg (image/jpeg, 420397 bytes) charset=us-ascii Folks, Just got back from Middletown. The north end of the O&W station is total burnt out. The local fireman were stating that the insurance were already there and the north end will be demolished ASAP. Here are some pics I took. Dennis (See attached file: DSCN0184.JPG)(See attached file: DSCN0176.JPG)(See attached file: DSCN0177.JPG)(See attached file: DSCN0178.JPG)(See attached file: DSCN0180.JPG)(See attached file: DSCN0172.JPG) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <401EB64A.3060905_@_netsync.net> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:42:50 -0500 From: Michael Dickinson Subject: (erielack) B/W aboose What roofwalk was used on the B/W caboose? What would the correct part number be in HO scale. I am starting to gather parts for Jim Harr's project from the workbench Thanks Mike Dickinson ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040202205351.60583.qmail_@_web41113.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FCD_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:53:51 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: RE: (erielack) Middletown Station Update-pics Norfolk Southern works this track from Four Story Junction south to the interchange with the Middletown & New Jersey several days a week 'as required'. The M&NJ has one customer about a half mile beyond the interchange. - --- "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" wrote: > Does anyone know what freight customers are left south of here? (the > tracks - the old O&W main - can be seen in the snow in some of the > pictures). This is the line that the Erie took over when the O&W went > under in 1957, yes? ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FD0_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:30:19 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... While we're discussing the EL's blue RBLs, here's a topic I've never seen much discussion on: The EL's leased North American Car RBLs. These were painted yellow with black ends, and were 50' plug-door boxcars built to the standard North American Car RBL design (this is the kit I mentioned Walthers has made). The cars (series was 60000-60019, I believe, 20 cars) wore at least two lettering variations during their lifetime, but the only EL identification was the large black EL diamond on the car's right side (as well as a note that the car was leased by EL). Reporting marks were NIRX, with either a "North American" or "NITX" logo in the upper left corner, depending on the lettering variation. The questions that come to mind are: * When did EL lease these? * What were they used to haul? * Were they equipped with special equipment? (it just seems odd that EL would lease 20 RBLs, when they already had quite a few on their roster) * Were they returned to North American prior to Conrail, or after CR? - Paul Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ Lucent Technologies Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 Performance Test Team 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FD1_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:17:58 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) B/W aboose If you model the C371-C380, you don't need to worry about this... ;) - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Dickinson [mailto:squeaky_@_netsync.net] > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 3:43 PM > To: EL List address > Subject: (erielack) B/W aboose > > > What roofwalk was used on the B/W caboose? What would the > correct part > number be in HO scale. I am starting to gather parts for Jim Harr's > project from the workbench Thanks > Mike Dickinson > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1075757316.401ec10497841_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:28:36 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: (erielack) Stored Power Selkirk, NY 1982 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=48695 - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1075762412.401ed4ec4bb07_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:53:32 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: (erielack) B&Y F-Ms from Atlas http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/HOLocomotives/hoh15441644/Erie.gif - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001501c3e9df$f7fb0d70$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:57:44 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: (erielack) EL H16-44s Just announced from Atlas: http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/h1516443.htm ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000001c3e9e0$57fb29d0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:00:25 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: (erielack) Also new from Atlas... New roadnames on their 36' wood reefer in HO scale, including "Nickle Plate Lackawanna Dairy Line" (what's that?) http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/HOFreightCars/ho36woodreefer/8017.jpg ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <401EDEE3.B43809E6_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <001501c3e9df$f7fb0d70$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:36:03 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) EL H16-44s Yup saw it...real nice...too bad the cab is wrong. Sorry couldn't resist! :) I'm ducking! Will "Paul R. Tupaczewski" wrote: > > Just announced from Atlas: > > http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/h1516443.htm ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000001c3e9ea$518a19d0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:11:49 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: (erielack) FW: Request for assistance Can anyone help Jeanette? Please reply directly to her... - Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Jeanette Flanagan [mailto:flanman_@_argolink.net] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 2:49 PM To: paultup_@_optonline.net Subject: Good afternoon, I am looking for someone who worked for Erie Lackawanna Railroad. The route in 1967-1668 had a layover in Kent Ohio. Any information or a direction you could possibly point me in would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Jeanette Flanagan ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <401EED09.77020B1C_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <000001c3e9e0$57fb29d0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:36:25 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) Also new from Atlas... NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-02-04 NKP-Lack_Dairy_Line.jpg (image/jpeg, 61058 bytes) Paul, The Nickel Plate-Lackawanna Dairy Line was a decade long cooperative leasing agreement for 300 refrigerator cars by the Nickel Plate and the Lackawanna from what I've been able to find out. Although some of the information was less than clear. It ran from 1925 to 1935 near as I can tell. I've attached the ORER entry from 1930. Regards, Will "Paul R. Tupaczewski" wrote: > > New roadnames on their 36' wood reefer in HO scale, including "Nickle > Plate Lackawanna Dairy Line" (what's that?) > > http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/HOFreightCars/ho36woodreefer/8017.jpg ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <451E4E12.19E146CB.0245D95E_@_aol.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:17:49 -0500 From: Estabrook_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... In a message dated 2/2/2004 3:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, paultup_@_lucent.com writes: > > While we're discussing the EL's blue RBLs, here's a topic I've never seen much discussion on: The EL's leased North American Car RBLs. These were painted yellow with black ends, and were 50' plug-door boxcars built to the standard North American Car RBL design (this is the kit I mentioned Walthers has made). The cars (series was 60000-60019, I believe, 20 cars) wore at least two lettering variations during their lifetime, but the only EL identification was the large black EL diamond on the car's right side (as well as a note that the car was leased by EL). Reporting marks were NIRX, with either a "North American" or "NITX" logo in the upper left corner, depending on the lettering variation. > > The questions that come to mind are: > > * When did EL lease these? > > * What were they used to haul? > > * Were they equipped with special equipment? (it just seems odd that EL would lease 20 RBLs, when they already had quite a few on their roster) > > * Were they returned to North American prior to Conrail, or after CR? > > - Paul > > Somewhere, I have seen one or more of these with Conrail reporting marks (in black on yellow with Conrail logo) - maybe George Elwoods site. Reed ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20040202211913.007afdf0_@_mail.citcom.net> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:19:13 -0500 From: Benton Bartlett Subject: (erielack) ERIE Water Tank Question I am building a model of an ERIE Wooden Water Tank. The drawing indicates that the water tank was located in Mahoning, OH. The materials list includes an item for 47 gals of paint. Does anyone know how much of the tank would have been painted and what color? Thanks in advance for any help. Ben bartlett ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1182 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:10:51 -0500 From: jon.liles_@_us.schneider-electric.com Subject: (erielack) Web Site Updates I have updated my website by reformatting ETT # 49 for the Susquehanna and Tioga Divisions and Branches http://jon-n-bevliles.com/railroad/erieett49.html to make it conform with the other ETTs recently added. I have also updated ETT # 37 by correcting a couple of typos. Some differences between #37 and #49 of note: The Erie ROW no longer goes through Corning but now parallels the DL&W ROW around Corning into Painted Post. All references to steam locomotives have been removed (e.g., all coaling stations are now fueling stations). There is no longer any passenger service to Morris Run on the Tioga Division. There is no longer any passenger interchange with B&O in Addison. I am currently working on the DL&W Rules of the Operating Department dated 1918. I will also be adding ETTs from other Divisions as I find the time. Jonathan W. Liles ELHS #3158 NMRA #125464 CVRHS # 195 http://railroad.jon-n-bevliles.com/Railroad_Index.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003301c3ea6f$30bbf680$398c79a5_@_schuylerhome> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:02:49 -0500 From: "Schuyler G Larrabee" Subject: (erielack) address change Effective immediately, please change your records (if you so care) to reflect my new home email address: schuyler dot larrabee (at) verizon dot net I'm sure you know how to fix that so it will work, but I am trying to avoid spam. Thanks. Schuyler Larrabee often signed SGL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:11:16 -0500 From: "James Harr" Subject: Re:(erielack) B/W aboose Mike and list: I think that a Plano Boxcar roofwalk will work just fine here. Walthers Number 565-191 is a "Slotted 40' Boxcar Walkway". The Athearn roofwalk measures 39 scale feet I believe. You could just snip off the last section to make the plano part fit; I believe the Plano end platforms are separate, so they don't need to be cut and moved. You will need to create some supports for the end platforms, however. And, of course, you will need to fill the holes in the roof of the body shell. Detail Associates makes "Boxcar Roof Plugs (Walthers Number 229-6224) That would probably work well here. Mike also asked off-list what the .060" styrene rod is for; it is used to fill the holes in the end platforms in the Athearn roofwalk. If you are replacing the Athearn part with an etched part, you don't need the .060" styrene rod. Sorry for the oversight on my part. Jim Harr ELHS #2934 Editor, From The Workbench From: Michael Dickinson Subject: (erielack) B/W aboose What roofwalk was used on the B/W caboose? What would the correct part number be in HO scale. I am starting to gather parts for Jim Harr's project from the workbench Thanks Mike Dickinson ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FD9_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:02:40 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... Reed, You sure these are the NITX cars? I know that some of the BLUE cars got CR yellow with red ends.... - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Estabrook_@_aol.com [mailto:Estabrook@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 9:18 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net; paultup@lucent.com > Cc: estabrook_@_aol.com > Subject: Re: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... > > > In a message dated 2/2/2004 3:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > paultup_@_lucent.com writes: > > > > > While we're discussing the EL's blue RBLs, here's a topic > I've never > > seen much discussion on: The EL's leased North American Car RBLs. > > These were painted yellow with black ends, and were 50' plug-door > > boxcars built to the standard North American Car RBL design > (this is > > the kit I mentioned Walthers has made). The cars (series was > > 60000-60019, I believe, 20 cars) wore at least two lettering > > variations during their lifetime, but the only EL > identification was > > the large black EL diamond on the car's right side (as well > as a note > > that the car was leased by EL). Reporting marks were NIRX, > with either > > a "North American" or "NITX" logo in the upper left corner, > depending > > on the lettering variation. > > > > The questions that come to mind are: > > > > * When did EL lease these? > > > > * What were they used to haul? > > > > * Were they equipped with special equipment? (it just seems > odd that > > EL would lease 20 RBLs, when they already had quite a few on their > > roster) > > > > * Were they returned to North American prior to Conrail, or > after CR? > > > > - Paul > > > > > Somewhere, I have seen one or more of these with Conrail > reporting marks (in black on yellow with Conrail logo) - > maybe George Elwoods site. > > Reed > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:37:51 EST From: CRNFLKS_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Re: EL List Daily V3 #1182 Paul - The old O&W line in the pictures is the one the E-L (actually the Erie) took over after the 1957 O&W abandonment. If I remember my local RR history correctly, they (the Erie) had running rights over it to Fair Oaks when the O&W was still in business, where the line then right-angled off and continued on to Bullville and other points east. It actually crossed Rt. 17 (the Quickway) on its way to Bullville. I can remember this line still being active in the early 70's, and having to wait several times in stopped traffic on the Quickway for the local to cross. Wish I had carried (or, had!!) a camera back then - like most of us, I figured it would be there forever! WRONG!! Plus, I had my mind on girls! Can't remember if Conrail had much activity on this line. I don't know what customers may still exist - seems to me there may be a lumber outfit off Highland Ave., but I'm really not sure. I know this line is now accessed from a connection with the Graham Line at the point where it was crossed by the O&W, at the north end of the O&W's Middletown yard (Highlights Yard, I believe??). The other end of the trackage used to tie in with the old Erie main in Middletown - as most of us probably know, that line was removed in the mid-80's. Bruce Smith P.S. I grew up in this area, and spend many an hour on everyone's r.o.w., abandoned or otherwise! Ahhh, those were the days!! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <135.2aaa57fa.2d519c2d_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:51:57 EST From: VSX9000_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... Shot a pix of Conrail reefer # 359021 ( orange sides, red oxide ,brown, ends and roof, black CR lettering. At Waverly, N. Y. summer '82 not an ex E-L car .....right? Thanks, Lou ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000701c3eacb$f668cd70$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <000001c3eaca$49ea6fa0$646cd7a8_@_default> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:07:02 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL blue boxcar > I thought the blue boxcars were for the Kraft plant in Avon, > NY (maker of Kool Whip). What cars am I thinking of? The "Cool Whip" cars were the mechanical refrigerator cars they had - EL 5000-5039 - which were bright orange with black ends and a white roof, black lettering. The ELHS did these cars several years ago as a custom run (the Con-Cor 57' mechanical reefer is an exact match) - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000801c3eacc$055b18b0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <135.2aaa57fa.2d519c2d_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:07:27 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... Possibly - I'll have to look at Larry DeYoung's "CR Color Guide to Freight Equipment" and see... - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of VSX9000@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 7:52 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... > > > Shot a pix of Conrail reefer # 359021 ( orange sides, red > oxide ,brown, ends > and roof, black CR lettering. At Waverly, N. Y. summer '82 > not an ex > E-L car .....right? > > > > > Thanks, > > Lou > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001101c3eacc$baaeed40$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:12:31 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: FW: (erielack) More EL hopper photos... NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-03-04 el_70ton_33465_ctp.jpg (image/jpeg, 77685 bytes) Courtesy lister Curt Pope... - -----Original Message----- From: curtis pope [mailto:popectsw_@_msn.com] Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 9:48 PM To: Paul R. Tupaczewski Subject: Re: (erielack) More EL hopper photos... Hey Paul, Since these are showing pretty often, here is one more for collection. Two cars,#33465 & 33491, sidelined last year for about 10 months on a NS siding at old Goldston Brick Plant in Cumnock, NC. (about 8 miles from my home & home to the only coal mine in NC, circa 1850s-1923) #33491 had a broken coupler and they had some ballast in their bellies. A rare sight indeed here in North Carolina. Curt Pope ELHS #1858 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:19:39 EST From: STEVEZ10_@_aol.com Subject: Re: FW: (erielack) More EL hopper photos... In a message dated 2/3/04 7:15:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, paultup_@_optonline.net writes: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-03-04 el_70ton_33465_ctp.jpg Anyone know why so many untouched EL hoppers still exist?? Did NS/CSX/CR just never get to them or were there an abundance of EL hoppers floating around that never got scrapped? I guess there weren't as many PC or LV hoppers that existed into the Conrail era. Thanks, Steve P. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6b.21dd3164.2d51c3b6_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:40:38 EST From: ELRRco_@_aol.com Subject: Re: FW: (erielack) More EL hopper photos... Well, depending upon where on the Conrail system you were (i.e Pennsylvania) you could see a lot of untouched PC and Reading hoppers rolling around. During one trip, at the Harrisburg station, a train of empty hoppers led by a brace of SD50s blew past with about 1/3 of the cars bearing reporting marks of those railroads. But for the required EL content, during the same trip I found CR #4022 alone at the head end of a short OCS that was made up for the previous day's open house at Enola Yard. It was the first time I had seen her with the HEP receptacles in the pilot and ditch lights. The yard crew happily uncoupled the GP10 that hostled the train into place to let me get a good shot of the nose. It was a fortuitous event, because I hadn't known about the open house, nor did I expect the train just to show up right when I arrived--I think President Maxwell was smiling down on me that day! In all truth, I have never seen a nicer locomotive. Best Regards, Phil Bell ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 23:10:58 EST From: Erielack1_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) NIRX 60017 When I was working as a train order operator on the Allinace Division of the BN during 1979 and 1980 I used to see NIRX 60017 pass by me in trains heading to Wyoming. The car was in benttonate clay service at the time and I think it was being loaded in the Newcastle, Wyoming area. Sometime in 1981 I stoppped see the car go by anymore and it dropped out of the computer system when I tried to trace it. Car was yellow, black ends and lettering, EL diamond on the right side. Made me miss home each time I saw it. Bob Stafford ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000a01c3ead3$8d899930$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <6b.21dd3164.2d51c3b6_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 23:01:22 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: FW: (erielack) More EL hopper photos... Actually, truth be told, I've noticed that the number of EL hoppers left in their original paint FAR outnumber any of the predecessor cars - and you'll notice that you tend to see more of them in groups. Perhaps since most are used in ballast service? Maybe there's no need to repaint non-revenue cars? - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of ELRRco@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 10:41 PM > To: STEVEZ10_@_aol.com; paultup@optonline.net; > erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: FW: (erielack) More EL hopper photos... > > > Well, depending upon where on the Conrail system you were > (i.e Pennsylvania) > you could see a lot of untouched PC and Reading hoppers > rolling around. During > one trip, at the Harrisburg station, a train of empty hoppers > led by a brace > of SD50s blew past with about 1/3 of the cars bearing > reporting marks of those > railroads. > > But for the required EL content, during the same trip I found > CR #4022 alone > at the head end of a short OCS that was made up for the > previous day's open > house at Enola Yard. It was the first time I had seen her > with the HEP > receptacles in the pilot and ditch lights. The yard crew > happily uncoupled the GP10 > that hostled the train into place to let me get a good shot > of the nose. > > It was a fortuitous event, because I hadn't known about the > open house, nor > did I expect the train just to show up right when I > arrived--I think President > Maxwell was smiling down on me that day! > > In all truth, I have never seen a nicer locomotive. > > Best Regards, > > Phil Bell > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001301c3eacd$bd492ab0$6401a8c0_@_Roy1> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:19:45 -0500 From: "Roy W. Scheckermann" Subject: (erielack) Railroad Curves & Earthwork by Allen I will be listing the above reference book on E-Bay but anyone on the list that would be interested please contact me off list. The book is a seventh edition - revised and published in 1931. Thanks, Roy W. Scheckermann ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1183 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1ad.1f3b23ba.2d523381_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 06:37:37 EST From: Andrisd_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) RE: EL Blue boxcar I'll try again, is there a "close" representation of the EL blue, General Foods RBLs availible in HO? Thanks Andy Cole ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20040204071724.007bac90_@_mail.citcom.net> In-Reply-To: <1ad.1f3b23ba.2d523381_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:17:24 -0500 From: Benton Bartlett Subject: Re: (erielack) RE: EL Blue boxcar Andy Details West did the car a few years ago. They were pretty close and still show up at train shows. Ben Bartlett ELHS#250 At 06:37 AM 2/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >I'll try again, is there a "close" representation of the EL blue, General >Foods RBLs availible in HO? > >Thanks Andy Cole > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040204131106.4579.qmail_@_web41106.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 05:11:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: (erielack) Follow-up on NYO&W station fire Fire damages historic railroad station Blaze creates traffic headaches ** Heard 1st on NINN ** Middletown, NY – The O&W Station fueled the chugging engine of thriving old Middletown. Yesterday, that engine, long broken down, went up in flames. At about 8:15 a.m. a raging fire started in the old railroad station at the corner of Low and Wickham avenues. Flames were visible from Orange Regional Medical Center, bystanders said. A massive plume of smoke rose hundreds of feet in the air, visible from as far away as Chester. Wickham Avenue was closed until about 5 p.m., causing serious traffic delays. more... http://newscenter.ninn.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2317 ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000701c3eacb$f668cd70$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:02:04 -0500 (EST) From: "J. Henry Priebe Jr." Subject: RE: (erielack) EL blue boxcar On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Paul R. Tupaczewski wrote: > > I thought the blue boxcars were for the Kraft plant in Avon, > > NY (maker of Kool Whip). What cars am I thinking of? > > > The "Cool Whip" cars were the mechanical refrigerator cars they had - EL > 5000-5039 - which were bright orange with black ends and a white roof, > black lettering. The ELHS did these cars several years ago as a custom > run (the Con-Cor 57' mechanical reefer is an exact match) > > - Paul As I recall, the Con-Cor model was almost a hybrid of the two car orders. 5000 to 5019 had the logo on a large sheet metal placard, roofwalks and full ladders and the later order for 5020 to 5039 had the logo painted on the car side (across the rib), no roofwalks and cut down ladders. Is that assessment correct, oh Great EL Car Gurus? Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon Internet Corp Network Administrator www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <8B56AAEABE48D611947500065B3C3E470165B1FA_@_smf00exch030.dgs.ca.gov> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:50:50 -0800 From: "Evans, Jamie" Subject: (erielack) H16-44 numbers Hello Listers, Does anyone know who makes the correct decals for numbering the unnumbered Atlas H16-44? Maybe a microscale steam set? Thanks in advance, Jamie Evans ELHS 3087 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040204113423.006ac180_@_mail.copper.net> In-Reply-To: <8B56AAEABE48D611947500065B3C3E470165B1FA_@_smf00exch030.dgs. ca.gov> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:34:23 -0500 From: JJordan Subject: Re: (erielack) H16-44 numbers Jaime- Numbers for the H16-44's: EL #'s DL&W #'s 1930 930 1931 931 1932 932 1933 933 1934 934 1935 935 For a download of all EL, DL&W, Erie and other engine numbers, go to our web site at: http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/trainnut/PJLayoutImages/ClintonLayout3.htm At the bottom of the page, you can download MicroSoft Excel files for a variety of railroads and data including a listing of pictures for each engine in a host of different books. - -Joe Jordan Train Nut Central At 07:50 AM 2/4/04 -0800, Evans, Jamie wrote: > Hello Listers, >Does anyone know who makes the correct decals for numbering the unnumbered >Atlas H16-44? Maybe a microscale steam set? >Thanks in advance, >Jamie Evans >ELHS 3087 > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FE0_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:54:56 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) NIRX 60017 An RBL for bentonite clay service??? Could there have been a more appropriate car for that? :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Erielack1_@_aol.com [mailto:Erielack1@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 11:11 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: (erielack) NIRX 60017 > > > When I was working as a train order operator on the Allinace > Division of the > BN during 1979 and 1980 I used to see NIRX 60017 pass by me > in trains heading > to Wyoming. The car was in benttonate clay service at the > time and I think it > was being loaded in the Newcastle, Wyoming area. Sometime in > 1981 I stoppped > see the car go by anymore and it dropped out of the computer > system when I > tried to trace it. Car was yellow, black ends and lettering, > EL diamond on the > right side. Made me miss home each time I saw it. > Bob Stafford > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FE1_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:56:44 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) H16-44 numbers For DL&W, the Microscale DL&W set will work. For the EL ones, the only correct set I know of is (plug, plug!) Prime Mover Decals PMD-025 - this is for gray/maroon/yellow diesels, but it has the correct cab-side yellow numbers (condensed Gothic) - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Evans, Jamie [mailto:Jamie.Evans_@_dgs.ca.gov] > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:51 AM > To: 'erielack_@_lists.railfan.net' > Subject: (erielack) H16-44 numbers > > > Hello Listers, > Does anyone know who makes the correct decals for numbering > the unnumbered Atlas H16-44? Maybe a microscale steam set? > Thanks in advance, Jamie Evans ELHS 3087 > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FE5_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:10:16 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL blue boxcar > > The "Cool Whip" cars were the mechanical refrigerator cars > they had - > > EL 5000-5039 - which were bright orange with black ends and a white > > roof, black lettering. The ELHS did these cars several > years ago as a > > custom run (the Con-Cor 57' mechanical reefer is an exact match) > > > > - Paul > > As I recall, the Con-Cor model was almost a hybrid of the two > car orders. 5000 to 5019 had the logo on a large sheet metal > placard, roofwalks and full ladders and the later order for > 5020 to 5039 had the logo painted on the car side (across the > rib), no roofwalks and cut down ladders. > > Is that assessment correct, oh Great EL Car Gurus? That's correct, sir! Though the Con-Cor car has a separate roofwalk, which addresses the roofwalk/no roofwalk problem. - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FE4_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:06:54 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) RE: EL Blue boxcar Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my previous replies: THE NEW ATHEARN CAR IS EXACTLY THE CORRECT REPRESENTATION FOR THE EL BLUE CARS. IT EVEN COMES CORRECTLY LETTERED. Look here: http://www.athearn.com/RTR/50superiorboxcar/50_superiordoor_boxcar.html http://www.athearn.com/RTR/50superiorboxcar/images/91308.gif The Athearn car is the old Details West car (Athearn bought the DW line of freight cars two years ago) - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Benton Bartlett [mailto:b3j2c_@_citcom.net] > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 7:17 AM > To: Andrisd_@_aol.com > Cc: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) RE: EL Blue boxcar > > > Andy > Details West did the car a few years ago. They were pretty > close and still show up at train shows. Ben Bartlett ELHS#250 > > > At 06:37 AM 2/4/04 -0500, you wrote: > >I'll try again, is there a "close" representation of the EL blue, > >General > >Foods RBLs availible in HO? > > > >Thanks Andy Cole > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1c6.14b746c6.2d51d980_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:13:36 EST From: T190_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. In a message dated 2/3/04 10:02:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ELDL222 writes: > OS'ers and open Stations that OSed trains(I have been told that OS= On > Station, but I have also heard it is On Circuit, but I don't know where the > "S" came from) gave a dispatcher train location information on large > sections of railroad where they had automatic signals and which they were in > between control points(CP*). OS stood for "On Sheet" or "On Station". The OSers referred to may ahve been what some called "telltales" to let as Dispatcher or open station know the location where a train was passing. > > The Erie also had a large area that had automatics (and no CTC Control > Points CP's) between Hornell and Corning, with, maybe in early years with > open stations (to OS trains) at Canisteo, Cameron, and Addison. Actually wasn't is between Portage(PB) and Binghamton? Recall Portage was a Spring switch, then there was West NT(est leg of wye to River Line) then River Jct Was ABS 251(signalled in single direction on each track) between River Jct and Cass St in Hornell, then a short stint of CTC between Cass St and ZY(East Hornell) then ABS 251 essentially all the way to Bighamton. (CR CTC'd thru Corning in the late 70's early 80's, East, West, North Glass (Corning Sec connection) Gang Mills etc.. all the way to Horseheads and Elmira(FS) and beyond that to Binghamton was agin ABS251 with semaphores and a mix of searchlight and trilight signals. > > An interesting thing about the Erie they had "poor man's CTC", this is > where there was a double semaphore and the dispatcher could set the lower > blade semaphore to stop (remotely from his office), and the train would stop > and call the dispatcher and be told to open the switch and take the siding. I believe "Poor Mans' CTC " involves spring switches with controlled signals on single track, much like the Eries' Delaware Division in later years. The operation you refer to was "Take siding signals" at QN and VN, There were also call for train order signals(I beleiev they looked a bit like PRR Banjo signals) used at certain locations as well. GWL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <129.3aa662bb.2d52a33f_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:34:23 EST From: Estabrook_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... Reed, You sure these are the NITX cars? I know that some of the BLUE cars got CR yellow with red ends.... - Paul >> I've looked all over the place, including my own pile of pictures, and can't find a picture of one, or any evidence in the 1979 ORER (closest one I have), but somewhere I saw what looked like one of the NITX cars overpainted with CR reporting marks - maybe I was halucinating about the logo (which some of the repainted blue cars had)! I was even planning to overpaint my (Walthers) model for fun! Reed ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040204213317.02a0ceb0_@_pop.netzero.com> References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 21:35:31 -0500 From: Ken Subject: Re: FW: (erielack) More EL hopper photos... Steve, CAn't answer your question, but the of the 3 which I saw in Jackson, MI two were not touched, but one was relettered to Conrail. However, it still was black, not repainted to Conrail blue. Ken B. At 10:19 PM 2/3/04, STEVEZ10_@_aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 2/3/04 7:15:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, >paultup_@_optonline.net writes: >http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-03-04 > >el_70ton_33465_ctp.jpg >Anyone know why so many untouched EL hoppers still exist?? Did NS/CSX/CR just >never get to them or were there an abundance of EL hoppers floating around >that never got scrapped? I guess there weren't as many PC or LV hoppers that >existed into the Conrail era. > >Thanks, >Steve P. > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 1/30/04 - --=======563065DF====== - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 1/30/04 - --=======563065DF=======-- ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <198950-2200424524212211_@_M2W075.mail2web.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:42:12 -0500 From: "tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com" Subject: Re: FW: (erielack) More EL hopper photos... I think it may have something to do with the fact that there were so many of them, and that they were relatively new at the time CR took over rail operations in the northeast. I was once told by a CR employee when I asked why I almost never saw LV, CNJ, or L&HR equipment, that most of those roads' equipment was in such bad shape it was retired rather quickly. I also remember seeing quite a few RDG hoppers in Binghamton, as well as some PC cars, along with EL cars. I still see EL hoppers on NS trains here, most often 41T for some reason. When track season starts, I know there will be a bunch around on ballast trains. Tom B Original Message: - ----------------- From: STEVEZ10_@_aol.com Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:19:39 -0500 (EST) To: paultup_@_optonline.net, erielack@lists.railfan.net Subject: Re: FW: (erielack) More EL hopper photos... In a message dated 2/3/04 7:15:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, paultup_@_optonline.net writes: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-03-04 el_70ton_33465_ctp.jpg Anyone know why so many untouched EL hoppers still exist?? Did NS/CSX/CR just never get to them or were there an abundance of EL hoppers floating around that never got scrapped? I guess there weren't as many PC or LV hoppers that existed into the Conrail era. Thanks, Steve P. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1075951165.4021b63dbbfe8_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:19:25 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: (erielack) UP Challenger and Erie Gon Just a neat picture, and the engine still exists. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/up/up-s3710abn.jpg For list content- is the gon in front of the engine worthy of note? - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <4021FA14.D7536685_@_twcny.rr.com> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 03:08:52 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: (erielack) Must Have Well I sure am jealous I don't model in O, because if I did I would have to get me one of these: http://www.mth-railking.com/detail.asp?item=30-1318-1 They have no shame. Regards, Will Shultz ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1184 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:31:52 -0500 From: "James Harr" Subject: Re: (erielack) H16-44 numbers Jamie, Paul and list: I have compared the lettering on Microscale sheet 87-812 with the numbers on a numbered unit. While both lettering is the same height (~.120", or roughly 10 1/2 scale inches) the Microscale numbers are more condensed. Also, the "fat" part of the numbers (don't know the correct calligraphic term here) on the numbered Atlas units is "fatter" than the Microscale numbers. I mention this only in the name of comparison, and not as a slight to either firm. Just so you can make an informed decision. I have no idea which font is correct; I leave that to the lettering gurus. I think the Microscale numbers would look fine on an unnumbered unit, since they would stand alone. If one were trying to RE-number a NUMBered unit by removing only ONE number, then there might be a problem. And Paul addressed the possible solution for an EL version ;^) Jim Harr ELHS #2934 Editor, From The Workbench From: "Evans, Jamie" Subject: (erielack) H16-44 numbers Hello Listers, Does anyone know who makes the correct decals for numbering the unnumbered Atlas H16-44? Maybe a microscale steam set? Thanks in advance, Jamie Evans ELHS 3087 For DL&W, the Microscale DL&W set will work. For the EL ones, the only correct set I know of is (plug, plug!) Prime Mover Decals PMD-025 - this is for gray/maroon/yellow diesels, but it has the correct cab-side yellow numbers (condensed Gothic) ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <0153730F01A89948BD814A378C59BE75A7250B_@_us0366exmp.america.apci.com> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:51:19 -0500 From: "Larson,Martin A" Subject: (erielack) Lackawanna Flatcars I'm looking to model a couple of the DL&W 40' flatcars (piggyback) from the 16400 -16499 series with the "Lackawanna" on the fish bellies. I would use decals available from Prime Mover. What is the best flatcar available to start with for these? Is the 40' Athearn flatcar close? Thanks, Marty Larson ELHS #3033 + ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <8B56AAEABE48D611947500065B3C3E470165B20A_@_smf00exch030.dgs.ca.gov> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:05:17 -0800 From: "Evans, Jamie" Subject: RE: (erielack) H16-44 numbers Hello List, First a hearty thank you to those who responded to my question regarding proper numbers for the DL&W H16-44, your answers are very helpful. In looking at the Microscale website I see the Erie steam set 87-91. The numbers appear to be correct but probably the wrong color, more yellow than dulux gold. Maybe with enough weathering they would work. I welcome any comments. Thank you, Jamie Evans ELHS 3087 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <01C3EC1A.BB794E60.cthurner_@_adelphia.net> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 19:03:18 -0500 From: Christopher Thurner Subject: (erielack) MRR Magazine 2003 Readers' Choice Awards Listers: I received my March 04 issue today and noticed that Joe Lofland's (JJL Models) Erie Dunmore caboose is an entrant in the HO scale rolling stock category. It's my choice in that category (slightly biased!) and I'm giving it serious consideration for Product of the year. Congrats Joe. We Erie / EL / WAG fans love 'em. And the winner is..... Chris Thurner ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000001c3ec48$49a02ba0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:29:30 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: (erielack) EL switcher in the press... In the new Diesel Era (Jan/Feb 2004), there's a newsphoto on page 55: "Bulkmatic SW900M W111 was built as Erie NW2 406 (b/n 5131, b/d 1/48); to Erie Lackawanna 406; to Conrail 9213; to Relco, rebuilt to SW900 specs, renumbered 1205; to Novacor W111, Joffre, Alberta; to Bulkmatic, Belpre, Ohio, November 10, 2003." So... Any folks in Ohio in a position to get a photo? It still appears to have its retrofitted side handrails, and I would LOVE detail shots of the stanchions! :) - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040206003158.48445.qmail_@_web40703.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:31:58 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hollritt Subject: (erielack) EL Extra 3657 east November 22 1973, complements of George Elwoods site, new photos.Extra 3657 East This train consisting of diesel-electric locomotive units 3657, 3667 (both EMD SD-45's) 26 cars and a caboose left Chicago, Illinois, at 4:45 a.m., the day of the accident, after receiving the prescribed brake test. Crews were changed at Marion, Ohio, 113.4 miles west at Kent, where the outbound crew went on duty at 11:50 a.m. after completing the required off duty period. The train arrived in Kent, on track No. 2, at 4:10 p.m. where arrangements were made to detour against the current of traffic on track No. 1. About 5:00 p.m. Extra 3657 East crossed over from track No. 2 to track No. 1 and shortly thereafter accelerated to the maximum authorized speed. The fireman, a promoted engineer, was operating the locomotive units from the control compartment of the leading locomotive. The engineer was in the control compartment of the leading locomotive, with the fireman, and the front brakeman was riding the second locomotive. The conductor and flagman were in the caboose. About 5:20 p.m. Extra 3657 was moving eastward on track No. 1 at 50 m.p.h., as indicated by the speed recorder, when the front end was diverted onto the industrial track at Windham. Immediately thereafter the locomotive units and first 12 cars became derailed. The locomotives came to rest on their right sides between the industrial and main tracks. The 12 cars stopped in various positions behind the locomotives. The fireman stated he was unaware of the open switch until the locomotives entered the industrial track. He immediately applied the train brakes in emergency but did not reduce the train's speed prior to the derailment. Cab view, http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/el3657bch.jpg Rear view, http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/el3657ach.jpg Sadly the the EL engineer in 3657 was killed, the fireman seriously injured and the front brakeman sustained minor injuries. Todd- - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040206004420.37690.qmail_@_web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:44:20 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hollritt Subject: (erielack) EL MU 3208 Another photo from George ELwood's site. Boone Iowa December 2003, rust never sleeps... http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/steamtown/dlw-m3208afh.jpg Todd- - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040206010558.81597.qmail_@_web40706.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:05:58 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hollritt Subject: (erielack) Help Wanted "Erie man working in Cleveland".... and you thought YOU had a rough day! http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-g9160alb.jpg You could have a caption contest with this one, like "Hurry up Joe.... another ones about to dock!" Todd- - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <60.3a876d8b.2d545d2c_@_aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:59:56 EST From: STEVEZ10_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) EL MU 3208 Does anyone know if this coach in question is for sale??? Thanks, Steve ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <2F4544E5.52BDF0A2.0C429A4C_@_aol.com> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 23:34:19 -0500 From: PayneJohnD_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) EL MU 3208 Isn't this car similar to the ones rusting away at the old Boonton Staion? John Payne Milford Connecticut ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1e1.18e99bf7.2d5487bf_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:01:35 EST From: MDelvec952_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Stories of Lackawanna track Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this excerpt from a Nicholson, Pa., family of a former Lackawanna trackman whose territory included Tunkhannock Viaduct. Pat McKnight, if you want this lady's e-mail address for future interviews for your projects, lemme know. Lackawanna main track was among the best respected in the industry, and we rarely hear about the men who kept it that way. ....Mike Hi Mike, Grandpa's name was Henry (Hank) Palmiter. I'm not sure how long grandpa worked for the railroad, but know that it was quite awhile before they built the bridge as it was a rather prestigious accomplishment to be appointed section foreman of it. And I do know that he took a great deal of pride in "his" section of the track. My mother used to tell us (and I think there is a newspaper or trade article somewhere) wherein the supervisor, inspector, or whatever commended grandpa for keeping the track in such great condition. Seems to me that the inspector used to test the condition of track by some unorthodox method such as riding in a passenger car holding a cup of water so full it was about to spill over the rim to see how smooth the ride was, and if the water spilled or not determined the condition- something like that. Anyway, he said that on grandpa's section, not only did the water stay in the cup, it didn't even ripple. Grandpa was also a sixth principle Baptist minister ( a real Hell and damnation preacher) and was determined to save as many souls as he could along the way. His workmen took advantage of the situation by asking grandpa a theological question whenever they wanted a break from railroading knowing that grandpa would sermonize for a good long while(sometimes for an hour or so) in an effort to convert them. Rumor has it that more souls were saved on those tracks than a month of Sundays in church. (I will tell you more about grandpa's DL & W days if I can find my Palmiter family file folder.) ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1185 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1a3.1ffe14e2.2d54ed7b_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:15:39 EST From: Hhaines_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) MRR Magazine 2003 Readers' Choice Awards Chris and list I also seem to think that the Broadway Limited Inc URSA Heavy Mikado Erie N-2 also falls into this year's running but did not make the printout list. So did Athearn's EL Genesis F-3/F-5/F-7s. So did the ELHS Erie C-9 express car (if I recall) and the diesel locomotive horns. Maybe if enough of us vote one of those things can be a "winner." Of course, to me, Joe's caboose is a winner. H Haines ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004201c3ecb3$e6722fd0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <2F4544E5.52BDF0A2.0C429A4C_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:19:50 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL MU 3208 Nope, the cars at the Boonton Station are all former LIRR "Ping-Pong" coaches (which, truth be told, are far more rare than DL&W MU trailers!) - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of > PayneJohnD_@_aol.com > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 11:34 PM > To: Todd Hollritt; erielack_@_railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) EL MU 3208 > > > Isn't this car similar to the ones rusting away at the old > Boonton Staion? > > John Payne > Milford Connecticut > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004101c3ecb3$cecbf500$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <60.3a876d8b.2d545d2c_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:19:10 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL MU 3208 Ummm, technically, it's not a coach, but an "MU Trailer" :) - Paul, stickler for accuracy > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of > STEVEZ10_@_aol.com > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 10:00 PM > To: thollritt_@_yahoo.com; erielack@railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) EL MU 3208 > > > Does anyone know if this coach in question is for sale??? > > Thanks, > Steve > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <128.3aec4b13.2d54f026_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:27:02 EST From: Hhaines_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) MRR Magazine 2003 Readers' Choice Awards They came out after the magazine went to print, and I don't know if MR was going to bet on them being on time. H Haines ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004301c3ecb4$77f10b20$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <1a3.1ffe14e2.2d54ed7b_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:23:54 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) MRR Magazine 2003 Readers' Choice Awards Howard and all, > I also seem to think that the Broadway Limited Inc URSA Heavy > Mikado Erie N-2 > also falls into this year's running but did not make the > printout list. So > did Athearn's EL Genesis F-3/F-5/F-7s. So did the ELHS Erie > C-9 express car > (if I recall) and the diesel locomotive horns. Maybe if > enough of us vote one > of those things can be a "winner." Of course, to me, Joe's > caboose is a > winner. H Haines For the models, I think they're looking for "Generic" (i.e., no roadnames), but the JJL Models hack is unique and therefore can't be given a generic label. The Athearn Genesis F-units were already nominated once before. I'm surprised the BLI 2-8-2's weren't nominated, though! - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004a01c3ecb8$2e1b3b20$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <135.2aaa57fa.2d519c2d_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:50:28 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... (and EL sleepers) Lou, It looks like you got one of the former EL orange cars - there's a photo of CR 359005 in Larry DeYoung's CR Color Guide, which is one of the EL 5000-5039 series cars.. He doesn't give a number series, but he also mentioned that CR has 12 similar cars from the Reading (which I assume would have been thrown into the same number series) - Paul P.S. In the same book, Larry shows a shot of CR #11 (ex-EL/Erie "Spirit of Youngstown") - he mentiones that on the EL, it later became "EL 5" and worked the business fleet. There's enough photographic evidence of this car being part of the business fleet, but none that shows it was referred to as "EL 5" (the diagram book is the only place this is noted) - - I have a shot of it in early 1976 with "Spirit of Youngstown" lettering. Was the "EL 5" number to allow it to be more easily put into computers if it went off-line? > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of VSX9000@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 7:52 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... > > > Shot a pix of Conrail reefer # 359021 ( orange sides, red > oxide ,brown, ends > and roof, black CR lettering. At Waverly, N. Y. summer '82 > not an ex > E-L car .....right? > > > > > Thanks, > > Lou > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FF7_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:54:49 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL Extra 3657 east You know, even though it is over 30 years later, this story still send chills up my spine. I just cannot comprehend the feeling of helplessness that Mr. Wilcox (the engineer) must have been feeling as he was rolling along at an unstoppable 50 MPH and seeing that switch open. I know that it was later said that it was just "young kids" who didn't know what they were doing, but it still was a tragic event that never should have happened... - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd Hollritt [mailto:thollritt_@_yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 7:32 PM > To: erielack_@_railfan.net > Subject: (erielack) EL Extra 3657 east > > > November 22 1973, complements of George Elwoods site, new > photos.Extra 3657 East This train consisting of > diesel-electric locomotive units 3657, 3667 (both EMD > SD-45's) 26 cars and a caboose left Chicago, Illinois, at > 4:45 a.m., the day of the accident, after receiving the > prescribed brake test. Crews were changed at Marion, Ohio, > 113.4 miles west at Kent, where the outbound crew went on > duty at 11:50 a.m. after completing the required off duty period. > The train arrived in Kent, on track No. 2, at 4:10 p.m. where > arrangements were made to detour against the current of > traffic on track No. 1. About 5:00 p.m. Extra 3657 East > crossed over from track No. 2 to track No. 1 and shortly > thereafter accelerated to the maximum authorized speed. The > fireman, a promoted engineer, was operating the locomotive > units from the control compartment of the leading locomotive. > The engineer was in the control compartment of the leading > locomotive, with the fireman, and the front brakeman was > riding the second locomotive. The conductor and flagman were > in the caboose. > About 5:20 p.m. Extra 3657 was moving eastward on track No. 1 > at 50 m.p.h., as indicated by the speed recorder, when the > front end was diverted onto the industrial track at Windham. > Immediately thereafter the locomotive units and first 12 cars > became derailed. The locomotives came to rest on their right > sides between the industrial and main tracks. The 12 cars > stopped in various positions behind the locomotives. The > fireman stated he was unaware of the open switch until the > locomotives entered the industrial track. He immediately > applied the train brakes in emergency but did not reduce the > train's speed prior to the derailment. > > Cab view, http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/el3657bch.jpg > > Rear view, http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/el3657ach.jpg > > Sadly the the EL engineer in 3657 was killed, the fireman > seriously injured and the front brakeman sustained minor injuries. > > Todd- > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040206092701.016c69a0_@_popd.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FF7_@_nj7460exch002u.ho .lucent.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 09:27:01 -0500 From: Joe K Subject: RE: (erielack) EL Extra 3657 east At 08:54 AM 2/6/04 -0500, you wrote: >You know, even though it is over 30 years later, this story still send chills up my spine. I just cannot comprehend the feeling of helplessness that Mr. Wilcox (the engineer) must have been feeling as he was rolling along at an unstoppable 50 MPH and seeing that switch open. I know that it was later said that it was just "young kids" who didn't know what they were doing, but it still was a tragic event that never should have happened... > > - Paul > Sounds similar to the incident on the Bergen County line in Fairlawn a number of years ago when a Hoboken bound commuter train (MT I believe) ran off the main on to the spur into the pasta factory building. "Kids" broke the lock and threw the facing point switch after the train had passed the last signal. Joe K ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <743EC24E.0270AC57.0C429A4C_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 09:26:45 -0500 From: PayneJohnD_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) EL MU 3208 Thanks. Hmmmm . . . . if they are so rare, is anybody planning to do anything with them or are they simply gonna rust away into oblivion? John ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE3FFB_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:39:20 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL MU 3208 Those cars are OLD, and I'm fairly certain the trucks aren't roadworthy. To get those cars out of there would take a tremendous expenditure of $$$ - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: PayneJohnD_@_aol.com [mailto:PayneJohnD@aol.com] > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 9:27 AM > To: paultup_@_optonline.net; thollritt@yahoo.com; erielack@railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) EL MU 3208 > > > Thanks. Hmmmm . . . . if they are so rare, is anybody > planning to do anything with them or are they simply gonna > rust away into oblivion? > > John > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040206.100402.404.1.jimbatt1_@_juno.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:04:02 -0500 From: James G Flynn Subject: Re: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... (and EL sleepers) Nope, Nope Nope. Erie /EL #5 was one of the American series 6-6-4's. I forget which one. The Spirit Of Youngstown was always the Spirit Of Youngstown till it became CR # 11. Jim Flynn ELHS # 2598 jimbatt1_@_juno.com On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:50:28 -0500 "Paul R. Tupaczewski" writes: > Lou, > > It looks like you got one of the former EL orange cars - > there's > a photo of CR 359005 in Larry DeYoung's CR Color Guide, which is one > of > the EL 5000-5039 series cars.. He doesn't give a number series, but > he > also mentioned that CR has 12 similar cars from the Reading (which > I > assume would have been thrown into the same number series) > > - Paul > > P.S. In the same book, Larry shows a shot of CR #11 (ex-EL/Erie > "Spirit > of Youngstown") - he mentiones that on the EL, it later became "EL > 5" > and worked the business fleet. There's enough photographic evidence > of > this car being part of the business fleet, but none that shows it > was > referred to as "EL 5" (the diagram book is the only place this is > noted) > - I have a shot of it in early 1976 with "Spirit of Youngstown" > lettering. Was the "EL 5" number to allow it to be more easily put > into > computers if it went off-line? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of > VSX9000_@_aol.com > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 7:52 PM > > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > > Subject: Re: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... > > > > > > Shot a pix of Conrail reefer # 359021 ( orange sides, red > > oxide ,brown, ends > > and roof, black CR lettering. At Waverly, N. Y. summer '82 > > not an ex > > E-L car .....right? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lou > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <126.3a550dcf.2d551796_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:15:18 EST From: Jjbchian_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... (and EL sleepers) In a message dated 2/6/2004 6:51:25 AM Mountain Standard Time, paultup_@_optonline.net writes: > P.S. In the same book, Larry shows a shot of CR #11 (ex-EL/Erie "Spirit > of Youngstown") - he mentiones that on the EL, it later became "EL 5" > and worked the business fleet. There's enough photographic evidence of > this car being part of the business fleet, but none that shows it was > referred to as "EL 5" (the diagram book is the only place this is noted) > - I have a shot of it in early 1976 with "Spirit of Youngstown" > lettering. Was the "EL 5" number to allow it to be more easily put into > computers if it went off-line? > Paul, Spirit of Younstown was "whitelined" and sent to Port Jervis after cessation of service in January 1970. After 1972, EL again placed the car back in service for business purposes, and returned Spirit's name to the side of the car. EL Business car 5 was the former Erie/EL 4-4-6 sleeper "American Liberty". At that time, the only computers were IBM punchcards. I have good slides of Spirit in Hoboken in fresh EL paint in 1974. EL 5 was off the roster in early 1970. JJBoehner&nbsp;&nbsp; ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008301c3ecd0$217b7e80$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:41:55 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 DL_W_passenger_wreck.jpg (image/jpeg, 156300 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_a.jpg (image/jpeg, 186212 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_b.jpg (image/jpeg, 122176 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_c.jpg (image/jpeg, 189328 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_d.jpg (image/jpeg, 211345 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_e.jpg (image/jpeg, 139904 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_f.jpg (image/jpeg, 208926 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_g.jpg (image/jpeg, 221652 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_h.jpg (image/jpeg, 109582 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_i.jpg (image/jpeg, 110565 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_j.jpg (image/jpeg, 209567 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_k.jpg (image/jpeg, 149104 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_l.jpg (image/jpeg, 113152 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_m.jpg (image/jpeg, 166424 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_n.jpg (image/jpeg, 111943 bytes) DL_W_passenger_wreck_o.jpg (image/jpeg, 110791 bytes) From a friend's collection, some shots of a DL&W passenger wreck. Any thoughts on where/when this might have been? - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:45:12 +0000 From: "Walt Fles" Subject: (erielack) NW Indiana EL web site I ran across this web site. It has some GREAT NW indiana pics of the EL. http://www.trainweb.org/vermande/e/el.html _________________________________________________________________ Get some great ideas here for your sweetheart on Valentine's Day - and beyond. http://special.msn.com/network/celebrateromance.armx ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <77.21f05180.2d5520cc_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:54:36 EST From: Jjbchian_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) EL MU 3208 In a message dated 2/5/2004 8:01:28 PM Mountain Standard Time, STEVEZ10_@_aol.com writes: > Does anyone know if this coach in question is for sale??? > > Thanks, > Steve > &nbsp; Steve, If you were to purchase this car, it would be interesing to learn what you propose to do with it. First, the car has bolted pedestals, which would prohibit it from being interchanged to the national rail system. Not to mention the friction bearings. In reality, the car would have to be trucked from Boone, Iowa to where ever you would wish it to go.&nbsp; The car would need complete restoration, and updated to today's standards. (Roller bearings?) The UC equipment should be scrapped, as parts will be a problem.&nbsp; Unless it was going to operate at Steamtown, and they operate equipment which has no working lights, and outdated steam heat (when and if they can get it to work). I would begin with a budget of $75,000.00 just to get things moving. JJBoehner&nbsp; ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <5b.4690d296.2d5522bb_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:02:51 EST From: ELdispatcher_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? Paul & list, My money is on Hackettsown with the immigrant special that derailed in the 20's I believe it was. Rich Pennisi ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:01:34 EST From: Lederer73_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? Looks like Rockport to me Paul. I dunno.. - -Pat ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <11d.2adf5f4f.2d55245e_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:09:50 EST From: ELdispatcher_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? Paul & list, Since I haven't lived back in NJ since78, I have forgotten locations a little. That should be Rockport, not Hackettstown. Rich Pennisi ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040206172436.7676.qmail_@_web41101.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <008301c3ecd0$217b7e80$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:24:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? Rockport, NJ, west of Hackettstown, June 16, 1925, the charter taking German immigrants to Hoboken to take a ship to Germany to visit relatives 'back home'. Engine 1104 is the giveaway. Photo in Taber, 20th Century, volume 1, page 62. - --- "Paul R. Tupaczewski" wrote: > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. > To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the > following URL into your web browser: > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 > > DL_W_passenger_wreck.jpg (image/jpeg, 156300 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_a.jpg (image/jpeg, 186212 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_b.jpg (image/jpeg, 122176 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_c.jpg (image/jpeg, 189328 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_d.jpg (image/jpeg, 211345 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_e.jpg (image/jpeg, 139904 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_f.jpg (image/jpeg, 208926 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_g.jpg (image/jpeg, 221652 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_h.jpg (image/jpeg, 109582 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_i.jpg (image/jpeg, 110565 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_j.jpg (image/jpeg, 209567 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_k.jpg (image/jpeg, 149104 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_l.jpg (image/jpeg, 113152 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_m.jpg (image/jpeg, 166424 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_n.jpg (image/jpeg, 111943 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_o.jpg (image/jpeg, 110791 bytes) > > From a friend's collection, some shots of a DL&W passenger wreck. Any > thoughts on where/when this might have been? > > - Paul > ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <4023CDB9.E151482A_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <008301c3ecd0$217b7e80$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:24:09 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? Paul, I "think" this is the Rockport wreck of June 16,1925. Engine 1104 was the one involved in that incident. Rockport being near Hackettstown of course. Would that make sense? Will "Paul R. Tupaczewski" wrote: > > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. > To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 > > DL_W_passenger_wreck.jpg (image/jpeg, 156300 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_a.jpg (image/jpeg, 186212 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_b.jpg (image/jpeg, 122176 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_c.jpg (image/jpeg, 189328 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_d.jpg (image/jpeg, 211345 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_e.jpg (image/jpeg, 139904 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_f.jpg (image/jpeg, 208926 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_g.jpg (image/jpeg, 221652 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_h.jpg (image/jpeg, 109582 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_i.jpg (image/jpeg, 110565 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_j.jpg (image/jpeg, 209567 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_k.jpg (image/jpeg, 149104 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_l.jpg (image/jpeg, 113152 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_m.jpg (image/jpeg, 166424 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_n.jpg (image/jpeg, 111943 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_o.jpg (image/jpeg, 110791 bytes) > > >From a friend's collection, some shots of a DL&W passenger wreck. Any > thoughts on where/when this might have been? > > - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040206123637.00921630_@_popd.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <11d.2adf5f4f.2d55245e_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:36:37 -0500 From: Joe K Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? At 12:09 PM 2/6/04 EST, you wrote: >Paul & list, > >Since I haven't lived back in NJ since78, I have forgotten locations a >little. That should be Rockport, not Hackettstown. > >Rich Pennisi > > Check out: www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/ 199902/msg00553.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040206172539.59719.qmail_@_web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:25:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? Yes, it's Rockport, NJ, west of Hackettstown, June 16, 1925, the charter taking German immigrants to Hoboken to take a ship to Germany to visit relatives 'back home'. Engine 1104 is the giveaway. Photo in Taber, 20th Century, volume 1, page 62. - --- "Paul R. Tupaczewski" wrote: > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. > To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the > following URL into your web browser: > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 > > DL_W_passenger_wreck.jpg (image/jpeg, 156300 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_a.jpg (image/jpeg, 186212 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_b.jpg (image/jpeg, 122176 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_c.jpg (image/jpeg, 189328 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_d.jpg (image/jpeg, 211345 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_e.jpg (image/jpeg, 139904 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_f.jpg (image/jpeg, 208926 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_g.jpg (image/jpeg, 221652 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_h.jpg (image/jpeg, 109582 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_i.jpg (image/jpeg, 110565 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_j.jpg (image/jpeg, 209567 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_k.jpg (image/jpeg, 149104 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_l.jpg (image/jpeg, 113152 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_m.jpg (image/jpeg, 166424 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_n.jpg (image/jpeg, 111943 bytes) > DL_W_passenger_wreck_o.jpg (image/jpeg, 110791 bytes) > > From a friend's collection, some shots of a DL&W passenger wreck. Any > thoughts on where/when this might have been? ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001701c3ecd8$021e7f30$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <4023CDB9.E151482A_@_twcny.rr.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:38:18 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? - a new picture NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 DL_W_wreck.jpg (image/jpeg, 127258 bytes) Wow, thanks to all the DL&W experts out there for pinpointing that wreck! Here's one more shot of a different wreck - another one I don't know the location/timeframe of. Any thoughts? MOW fans, check out that cut-down boxcar ahead of the 543! - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: William Shultz [mailto:wshultz1_@_twcny.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 12:24 PM > To: Paul R. Tupaczewski > Cc: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? > > > Paul, > > I "think" this is the Rockport wreck of June 16,1925. Engine > 1104 was the one involved in that incident. Rockport being > near Hackettstown of course. Would that make sense? > > Will > > "Paul R. Tupaczewski" wrote: > > > > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To > > view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste > the following > > URL into your web browser: > > > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 > > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck.jpg (image/jpeg, 156300 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_a.jpg (image/jpeg, 186212 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_b.jpg (image/jpeg, 122176 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_c.jpg (image/jpeg, 189328 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_d.jpg (image/jpeg, 211345 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_e.jpg (image/jpeg, 139904 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_f.jpg (image/jpeg, 208926 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_g.jpg (image/jpeg, 221652 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_h.jpg (image/jpeg, 109582 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_i.jpg (image/jpeg, 110565 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_j.jpg (image/jpeg, 209567 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_k.jpg (image/jpeg, 149104 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_l.jpg (image/jpeg, 113152 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_m.jpg (image/jpeg, 166424 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_n.jpg (image/jpeg, 111943 bytes) > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_o.jpg (image/jpeg, 110791 bytes) > > > > >From a friend's collection, some shots of a DL&W passenger > wreck. Any > > thoughts on where/when this might have been? > > > > - Paul > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040206125016.008e8bc0_@_popd.ix.netcom.com> References: <11d.2adf5f4f.2d55245e_@_aol.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040206123637.00921630_@_popd.ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:50:16 -0500 From: Joe K Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? At 12:36 PM 2/6/04 -0500, you wrote: >At 12:09 PM 2/6/04 EST, you wrote: >>Paul & list, >> >>Since I haven't lived back in NJ since78, I have forgotten locations a >>little. That should be Rockport, not Hackettstown. >> >>Rich Pennisi >> >> >Check out: >www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/ 199902/msg00553.html > > Sorry for the goof on the web address. Should be: http://www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/199902/msg00553.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00bc01c3ecdc$4a4e1fa0$0200a8c0_@_none> References: <001701c3ecd8$021e7f30$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:08:57 -0600 From: "Bill Weibel" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? - a new picture Just a guess.... But since my Grandad worked in it...The 95542 wreck tender was stationed in the Scranton wreck train in the 20-40's so I would say between Scranton & Port Morris . I know only 100 miles, but no catenary narrows it down and it looks like it's in a river valley location...HMMM. I'd dig some pictures out and see what I can find out. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:38 AM Subject: RE: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? - a new picture > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. > To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: > > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 > > DL_W_wreck.jpg (image/jpeg, 127258 bytes) > > Wow, thanks to all the DL&W experts out there for pinpointing that > wreck! > > Here's one more shot of a different wreck - another one I don't know the > location/timeframe of. Any thoughts? MOW fans, check out that cut-down > boxcar ahead of the 543! > > - Paul > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Shultz [mailto:wshultz1_@_twcny.rr.com] > > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 12:24 PM > > To: Paul R. Tupaczewski > > Cc: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > > Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? > > > > > > Paul, > > > > I "think" this is the Rockport wreck of June 16,1925. Engine > > 1104 was the one involved in that incident. Rockport being > > near Hackettstown of course. Would that make sense? > > > > Will > > > > "Paul R. Tupaczewski" wrote: > > > > > > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To > > > view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste > > the following > > > URL into your web browser: > > > > > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 > > > > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck.jpg (image/jpeg, 156300 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_a.jpg (image/jpeg, 186212 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_b.jpg (image/jpeg, 122176 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_c.jpg (image/jpeg, 189328 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_d.jpg (image/jpeg, 211345 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_e.jpg (image/jpeg, 139904 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_f.jpg (image/jpeg, 208926 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_g.jpg (image/jpeg, 221652 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_h.jpg (image/jpeg, 109582 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_i.jpg (image/jpeg, 110565 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_j.jpg (image/jpeg, 209567 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_k.jpg (image/jpeg, 149104 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_l.jpg (image/jpeg, 113152 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_m.jpg (image/jpeg, 166424 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_n.jpg (image/jpeg, 111943 bytes) > > > DL_W_passenger_wreck_o.jpg (image/jpeg, 110791 bytes) > > > > > > >From a friend's collection, some shots of a DL&W passenger > > wreck. Any > > > thoughts on where/when this might have been? > > > > > > - Paul > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001501c3ece7$d16e67a0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:31:29 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: (erielack) DL&W MOW questions Hi folks, I'm just finishing laying out the DL&W MOW set (artwork is essentially complete), but the tricky part is sizing up the lettering. I've scaled most of it, but here's what I'm looking for. If anyone can help provide this info, I'd be most grateful. * The size of the "DL&W 36xx" on the side of the troop sleeper bunk cars. There was one shorter Roman typeface that was used on most of these cars that appears to scale out to 6-1/2" high, can anyone confirm? * The size of the "DL&W 95xxx" lettering on the ENDS of the tank cars. For that matter, what are the correct values for the "CAPY" and "LD LMT"? Thanks! - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000601c3ecf6$660242c0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:15:51 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 dlw8.jpg (image/jpeg, 182516 bytes) dlw1.jpg (image/jpeg, 265336 bytes) dlw2.jpg (image/jpeg, 246923 bytes) dlw3.jpg (image/jpeg, 253981 bytes) dlw4.jpg (image/jpeg, 207670 bytes) dlw5.jpg (image/jpeg, 220038 bytes) dlw6.jpg (image/jpeg, 177624 bytes) dlw7.jpg (image/jpeg, 248266 bytes) OK, fellow sleuths, here are some more photos. The photos all say "DL&W" on them, but I haven't the foggiest where the locations are. Anyone know? - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:24:06 -0600 From: "Machlica, Gary J, PRODM" Subject: RE: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! Paul: Looks like Olyphant PA. Check the sign on the feed mill in picture #8. Gary Machlica Product Manager -AT&T Domestic Voice Services (908) 234-7361 - -----Original Message----- From: Paul R. Tupaczewski [mailto:paultup_@_optonline.net] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:16 PM To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 dlw8.jpg (image/jpeg, 182516 bytes) dlw1.jpg (image/jpeg, 265336 bytes) dlw2.jpg (image/jpeg, 246923 bytes) dlw3.jpg (image/jpeg, 253981 bytes) dlw4.jpg (image/jpeg, 207670 bytes) dlw5.jpg (image/jpeg, 220038 bytes) dlw6.jpg (image/jpeg, 177624 bytes) dlw7.jpg (image/jpeg, 248266 bytes) OK, fellow sleuths, here are some more photos. The photos all say "DL&W" on them, but I haven't the foggiest where the locations are. Anyone know? - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040206123637.00921630_@_popd.ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:24:11 -0500 (EST) From: "J. Henry Priebe Jr." Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W wreck... Where is this? On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Joe K wrote: > At 12:09 PM 2/6/04 EST, you wrote: > >Paul & list, > > > >Since I haven't lived back in NJ since78, I have forgotten locations a > >little. That should be Rockport, not Hackettstown. > > > >Rich Pennisi > > > > > Check out: > www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/ 199902/msg00553.html > http://www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/199902/msg00553.html The space in the other URL will cause a Not Found error. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon Internet Corp Network Administrator www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:21:10 -0500 From: Pat_McKnight_@_nps.gov Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W MOW questions Paul, Grabbed a ruler and went out to measure the lettering on the side of our troop sleeper, DL&W 3621, at Steamtown. The lettering is rusted and "ghosting" in places, but I am pretty sure they are six inches tall and not 6-1/2. If you like, I can take a close-up digital on Monday when the weather clears and take a picture with a ruler next to it for perspective. Pat McKnight Historian, Steamtown NHS "Paul R. Tupaczewski" cc: (bcc: Pat McKnight/STEA/NPS) Sent by: Subject: (erielack) DL&W MOW questions erielack-owner_@_lists. railfan.net 02/06/2004 02:31 PM EST Please respond to "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Hi folks, I'm just finishing laying out the DL&W MOW set (artwork is essentially complete), but the tricky part is sizing up the lettering. I've scaled most of it, but here's what I'm looking for. If anyone can help provide this info, I'd be most grateful. * The size of the "DL&W 36xx" on the side of the troop sleeper bunk cars. There was one shorter Roman typeface that was used on most of these cars that appears to scale out to 6-1/2" high, can anyone confirm? * The size of the "DL&W 95xxx" lettering on the ENDS of the tank cars. For that matter, what are the correct values for the "CAPY" and "LD LMT"? Thanks! - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <159.2d27bf1d.2d55610f_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:28:47 EST From: Lederer73_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! wow. Thats crazy tough..The one with the station and freight house almost looks like the turn of the century Morris plains. The other ones with the loco, and concrete bridge in the background.. If you look at the one picture, of the backround buildings, one appears to look like its some sort of Mosque or something.. You see the weird domed roof? - -Pat ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40240C22.9FD8086B_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <000601c3ecf6$660242c0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:50:26 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! Would you stop! These pictures are wonderful! I'd say most of the latest are from the Scranton area Olyphant maybe and a couple might be from along the Bloom but maybe the Scranton branches. Why? Well one the feed store sign has Elephant and look at the culm piles in a couple of them. Will "Paul R. Tupaczewski" wrote: > > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. > To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 > > dlw8.jpg (image/jpeg, 182516 bytes) > dlw1.jpg (image/jpeg, 265336 bytes) > dlw2.jpg (image/jpeg, 246923 bytes) > dlw3.jpg (image/jpeg, 253981 bytes) > dlw4.jpg (image/jpeg, 207670 bytes) > dlw5.jpg (image/jpeg, 220038 bytes) > dlw6.jpg (image/jpeg, 177624 bytes) > dlw7.jpg (image/jpeg, 248266 bytes) > > OK, fellow sleuths, here are some more photos. The photos all say "DL&W" > on them, but I haven't the foggiest where the locations are. Anyone > know? > > - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040206.101939.9396.2294321_@_webmail01.lax.untd.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:18:47 GMT From: njmidland_@_netzero.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Speaking of EL RBL's.... (and EL sleepers) NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 Youngstown_--_corridor_of_bedroom_section.jpg (image/pjpeg, 41111 bytes) Youngstown_-_corridor_of_roomette_section.jpg (image/pjpeg, 91320 bytes) Youngstown_--_interior_of_roomette__note_exercise_machine_.jpg (image/pjpeg, 82512 bytes) Youngstown_-_interior_of_roomette.jpg (image/pjpeg, 63040 bytes) Youngstown_--_interior_of_roomette.jpg (image/pjpeg, 80497 bytes) Here are some photos of the interior of the Spirit of Youngstown a friend of mine took when he rode a CSX special in 2002. The car is now call just Youngstown and is used for on board staff, not guests. It would be nice to someday add this car to the ELDCPS "fleet". Tim ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:39:03 -0500 (EST) From: "J. Henry Priebe Jr." Subject: (erielack) Atlas HO TM has been announced! That new Atlas HO loco with sound is a TM! http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/hotrainmaster.htm No Decoder or Sound: 7805 Lackawanna - Phase 1a (Gray/Maroon/Yellow) 854 7806 Lackawanna - Phase 1a (Gray/Maroon/Yellow) 858 7807 Lackawanna - Phase 1a (Gray/Maroon/Yellow) No # Decoder and Sound: 7705 Lackawanna - Phase 1a (Gray/Maroon/Yellow) 850 7706 Lackawanna - Phase 1a (Gray/Maroon/Yellow) 859 Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon Internet Corp Network Administrator www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1076107746.402419e2d1f6f_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:49:06 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: (erielack) HO Atlas Trainmaster With Sound http://www.atlasrr.com/ I'm having trouble getting to the website, perhaps due to traffic? DL&W- 4 different numbers, 2 with sound and 2 without. - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002401c3ed08$5fde6ec0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:24:31 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: (erielack) AS PREDICTED! Atlas announced a sound-equipped HO Scale Train Master!!! Atlas HO Train Master Locomotive (360º view) The First Atlas HO Locomotive with Sound! http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/hotrainmaster.htm ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002401c3ed08$5fde6ec0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:41:57 -0500 (EST) From: "J. Henry Priebe Jr." Subject: Re: (erielack) AS PREDICTED! Atlas announced a sound-equipped HO Scale Train Master!!! On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Paul R. Tupaczewski wrote: > Atlas HO Train Master Locomotive (360º view) > The First Atlas HO Locomotive with Sound! > http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/hotrainmaster.htm > Gee, that's old news now! :) Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon Internet Corp Network Administrator www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040206190514.006cb880_@_mail.copper.net> References: <002401c3ed08$5fde6ec0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:05:14 -0500 From: JJordan Subject: Re: (erielack) AS PREDICTED! Atlas announced a sound-equipped HO Scale Train Master!!! To those concerned- Of course, everybody knows that we at 20th Century Hobbies, predicted this model well over a year ago and have been taking reservations for the past year. This is the third in a series of models we have predicted way before the official announcements. And now we await the Trainmaster in Erie Lackawanna and the ALCo S-4 switcher in Morristown & Erie and who the heck is going to make a SDP-45 for us???. We will have to break out the crystal ball again. BTW, those who have reservations with us please contact us and tell us which one of these beautiful models you want. By the numbers and with sound (GOLD) or without sound (SILVER)??? Newsletter with details to follow. Thank you very much and keep the faith. It appears that miracles do happen. - -Joe Jordan 20th Century Hobbies, Inc. JJordan At 06:41 PM 2/6/04 -0500, J. Henry Priebe Jr. wrote: >On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Paul R. Tupaczewski wrote: > >> Atlas HO Train Master Locomotive (360º view) >> The First Atlas HO Locomotive with Sound! >> http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/hotrainmaster.htm >> > >Gee, that's old news now! :) > >Henry > >J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon Internet Corp Network Administrator >www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting >www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <15d.2d288eee.2d559630_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:15:28 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! In a message dated 2/6/2004 4:52:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, wshultz1_@_twcny.rr.com writes: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 > > dlw8.jpg (image/jpeg, 182516 bytes) > dlw1.jpg (image/jpeg, 265336 bytes) > dlw2.jpg (image/jpeg, 246923 bytes) > dlw3.jpg (image/jpeg, 253981 bytes) > dlw4.jpg (image/jpeg, 207670 bytes) > dlw5.jpg (image/jpeg, 220038 bytes) > dlw6.jpg (image/jpeg, 177624 bytes) > dlw7.jpg (image/jpeg, 248266 bytes) > I believe these are not Lackawanna photos for many different reasons which I won't go into. I do believe they are in the Olyphant , Peckville, area north of Scranton on the D&H or what would become the D&H. O&W I believe is on the west bank of the river through there and these appear to be on the east bank of the river, but it's been a while since I visited that area. The first batch is the Rockport Wreck! Bob Bahrs ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <105.3f2197ce.2d559602_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:14:42 EST From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Help Wanted(2) ...and no one mentioned the very-unusual 3-truck arrangement under the car... Rich Behrendt ELHS #384 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <118.2e9f2b0c.2d5598e1_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:26:57 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Re Photos http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 Paul I previously stated that the earlier photos are of the Rockport Wreck, which most are, but I believe that photos numbered 21, 22, & 25 are deffinaltey NOT from that wreck. Possibly several others. Bob ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <15d.2d288eee.2d559630_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:45:12 -0700 From: Frank Adams Subject: RE: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! didn't the DL&W Winton branch go thru Olyphant? Frank Adams ELHS 2116 - -----Original Message----- From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of Dlw1el2@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:15 PM To: wshultz1_@_twcny.rr.com; erielack@lists.railfan.net Subject: Re: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! In a message dated 2/6/2004 4:52:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, wshultz1_@_twcny.rr.com writes: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-06-04 > > dlw8.jpg (image/jpeg, 182516 bytes) > dlw1.jpg (image/jpeg, 265336 bytes) > dlw2.jpg (image/jpeg, 246923 bytes) > dlw3.jpg (image/jpeg, 253981 bytes) > dlw4.jpg (image/jpeg, 207670 bytes) > dlw5.jpg (image/jpeg, 220038 bytes) > dlw6.jpg (image/jpeg, 177624 bytes) > dlw7.jpg (image/jpeg, 248266 bytes) > I believe these are not Lackawanna photos for many different reasons which I won't go into. I do believe they are in the Olyphant , Peckville, area north of Scranton on the D&H or what would become the D&H. O&W I believe is on the west bank of the river through there and these appear to be on the east bank of the river, but it's been a while since I visited that area. The first batch is the Rockport Wreck! Bob Bahrs ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <4EB35B0C.5A78693D.0000E419_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:40:01 -0500 From: JKUmb_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Erie #5 Gentlemen - I THINK Erie #5 is the one at the museum in Greenwood, SC. The photo I have doesn't show a number (it may be there behind the weeds and chain-link fence) but #5 sticks in my mind as the car i.d. Jon Umbdenstock ELHS#434 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40245072.CAC3EEBA_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <15d.2d288eee.2d559630_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 21:41:54 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! I do believe Bob is correct about at least some of the shots. In the dlw2.jpg...that's a classic O&W crossing guard shanty on the left. Same for dlw3.jpg...the shanty is at the end of the freight station platform. I have to admit that dlw4.jpg puzzled me since where was such a structure along a canal at the time these pictures were taken if it was the Lackawanna. Now with respect to Bob's observations about pictures 21, 22 and 25, he is correct. That's a Hudson in that accident laying on its side. If you ever wondered where the whistle was you can see it in the casing near the cab laying flat. How do I know it's a Hudson? For one thing the steam and sand domes were pretty unique as was the stack position in relation to other major boiler parts. Also you can see the blat horn in front of the sand dome. I want to say it is the Wayland wreck on August 30, 1943. The only thing that bothers me is the track doesn't look quite right with it curving off to the right in the one picture, 25, where it can be seen. Unless it is looking back east toward Wayland, then it would make sense. Yes Bob, next time I'll try to remember to look closer before speaking. You keep us all honest. Regards, Will Dlw1el2_@_aol.com wrote: > > I believe these are not Lackawanna photos for many different reasons which I > won't go into. I do believe they are in the Olyphant , Peckville, area north > of Scranton on the D&H or what would become the D&H. O&W I believe is on the > west bank of the river through there and these appear to be on the east bank > of the river, but it's been a while since I visited that area. > > The first batch is the Rockport Wreck! > > Bob Bahrs ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <01C3ED18.1EEF40A0.cthurner_@_adelphia.net> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 01:17:12 -0500 From: Christopher Thurner Subject: (erielack) Atlas Trainmasters Listers: It looks like those who guessed that the FM Trainmaster would be Atlas' first production model with sound (HO) got it right! They're releasing 5 in DL&W. They are releasing 5 units (3 - with DCC plug and 2 with a decoder already installed). As with recent releases, the decoder equipped ones are numbered and the DCC ready ones come with two numbered units and one w/o a #. See them at: http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/hotrainmaster.htm. Regards, Chris Thurner ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1186 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040207104534.006aa984_@_mail.copper.net> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 10:45:34 -0500 From: JJordan Subject: (erielack) 20th Century Hobbies HO Newsletter Hi Gang- New announcements, new stock, new "stuff" we've been waiting for a long time and a restock of a lot of Accurail, Athearn, MDC and other manufacturers. See our "What's New?" 10 pages for a complete listing. http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/ We've also moved our Train Nut Central website to a new location, so please bookmark it for future reference. http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/trainnut/ Athearn announcements: Need reservations by May 30, 2004. ATH-G15X2 DL&W F3A #TBA Diesel Locomotive MSRP $159.95 Our price $134.95 Advance Reservation price: $129.95 ATH-G25X2 DL&W F3A-B #TBA set Diesel Locomotive ATH-G26X2 DL&W F3A-B #TBA set Diesel Locomotive MSRP $269.95 Our price $229.50 Advance Reservation price: $219.50 New Atlas locomotives announcments: Need all reservations by Feb. 20, 2004. AS WE PREDICTED A YEAR AGO!!! Trainmaster in DL&W (3 out of 5, so far)- No Decoder and No Sound: ITEM# ROAD NAME ROAD NUMBER HO Train Master Locomotive - Master Series Silver (Without Decoder and Sound) [DCC Ready] 7800 Undecorated - Phase 1a (Single Headlight) 7805 Lackawanna - Phase 1a (Gray/Maroon/Yellow) 854 7806 Lackawanna - Phase 1a (Gray/Maroon/Yellow) 858 7807 Lackawanna - Phase 1a (Gray/Maroon/Yellow) No # 7801 Undecorated - Phase 1b (Single Headlight 7808 Southern Pacific - Phase 1b (Black/Silver/Orange)4803 7809 Southern Pacific - Phase 1b (Black/Silver/Orange)4809 7810 Southern Pacific - Phase 1b (Black/Silver/Orange) No # 7811 Virginian - Phase 1b (Black/Yellow) 52 7812 Virginian - Phase 1b (Black/Yellow) 65 7813 Virginian - Phase 1b (Black/Yellow) No # 7802 Undecorated - Phase 2 (Single Headlight/Standard Class Lights) 7814 Canadian Pacific - Phase 2 (Maroon/Gray/Yellow)8907 7815 Canadian Pacific - Phase 2 (Maroon/Gray/Yellow)8914 7816 Canadian Pacific - Phase 2 (Maroon/Gray/Yellow) No # 7817 Jersey Central - Phase 2 (Green/Yellow Stripes) 2409 7818 Jersey Central - Phase 2 (Green/Yellow Stripes) 2413 7819 Jersey Central - Phase 2 (Green/Yellow Stripes) No # 7820 Pennsylvania - Phase 2 (Brunswick Green/Gold) 8701 7821 Pennsylvania - Phase 2 (Brunswick Green/Gold) 8705 7822 Pennsylvania - Phase 2 (Brunswick Green/Gold) No # HO Train Master Locomotives - Master Series Gold (With Decoder & Sound) 7700 Undecorated - Phase 1a (Single Headlight) 7705 Lackawanna - Phase 1a (Gray/Maroon/Yellow) 850 7706 Lackawanna - Phase 1a (Gray/Maroon/Yellow) 859 7701 Undecorated - Phase 1b (Single Headlight 7707 Southern Pacific - Phase 1b (Black/Silver/Orange) 4802 7708 Southern Pacific - Phase 1b (Black/Silver/Orange) 4805 7709 Virginian - Phase 1b (Black/Yellow) 51 7710 Virginian - Phase 1b (Black/Yellow) 55 7702 Undecorated - Phase 2 (Single Headlight/Standard Class Lights) 7711 Canadian Pacific - Phase 2 (Maroon/Gray/Yellow) 8905 7712 Canadian Pacific - Phase 2 (Maroon/Gray/Yellow) 8917 7713 Jersey Central - Phase 2 (Green/Yellow Stripes) 2408 7714 Jersey Central - Phase 2 (Green/Yellow Stripes) 2410 7715 Pennsylvania - Phase 2 (Brunswick Green/Gold) 8703 7716 Pennsylvania - Phase 2 (Brunswick Green/Gold) 8706 Estimated Delivery: September 2004 MSRP w/o Decoder or Sound - Atlas Master Series Silver: MSRP $139.95 Our Price $118.95 Advance Reservation Price $113.95 Atlas Master™ Silver Series: Atlas' high quality locomotive with great features, such as seperately-applied detail parts, accurate painting and printing and the NMRA 8-pin plug for DCC if desired in the future. MSRP w/Decoder and Sound- Atlas Master Series Gold: MSRP $249.95 Our price $212.50 Advance Reservation Price $204.95 Atlas Master™ Gold Series: Atlas' high quality locomotive with great features, such as seperately-applied detail parts, accurate painting and printing, with an e-DMD (electronic Dual-Mode® decoder) and sound right out of the box. H15-44 Locomotives-Early Body & Cab w/Body Mounted Handrails 9500 Undecorated (H15/16-44) 9539 Akron Canton & Youngstown(Yellow/Black/Silver) 200 9540 Jersey Central "Stripes" (Green/Yellow) 1506 9541 Jersey Central "Stripes" (Green/Yellow) 1510 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-9541 9542 Jersey Central "Stripes" (Green/Yellow) No # 9543 MKT (Red/Yellow/Gray) 1591 9544 Monon (Black/Gold) 45 9545 Monon (Black/Gold) 46 HO H16-44 Locomotives-Early Body/Square Window Cab w/Sill Mounted Handrails 9518 Undecorated (H15/16-44) 9546 Long Island (Gray/Orange) 1504 9547 Long Island (Gray/Orange) 1508 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-9547 9548 Long Island (Gray/Orange) No # 9549 MKT (Red/Yellow/Gray) 1733 9550 MKT (Red/Yellow/Gray) No # 9551 New Haven (Black/Orange) 591 9552 New Haven (Black/Orange) 598 9553 New Haven (Black/Orange) No # 9554 Santa Fe (Blue/Yellow) 3007 9555 Santa Fe (Blue/Yellow) 3011 9556 Santa Fe (Blue/Yellow) No # HO H16-44 Locomotives-Late Body/Square Window Cab w/Body & Sill Mounted Handrails 9557 Erie-Lackawanna (Black/Yellow) 1932 9558 Erie-Lackawanna (Black/Yellow) 1935 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-9558 9559 Erie-Lackawanna (Black/Yellow) No # Estimated Delivery: July 2004 MSRP: $149.95 Our Price $127.50 Advance Reservation Price $122.50 We are taking reservations for the: JJL-800 JJL Models HO Keyser Valley Caboose craftsman kit $69.50 each includes USPS Priority Mail shipping http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=JJL-800 Also Atlas announced two old time wood 36' wood reefer DLW #300 & #305 marked "Nickel Plate Lackawanna Dairy Lines" MSRP $29.95 Our price $25.50 ATL-61131 & ATL-61132 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-61131 Now in Stock!!! Steam: BLI-017 HO T-1 Duplex 4-4-4-4 Pennsylvania Railroad #5528 Steam Locomotive, painted, lettered with SOUND! http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=BLI-017 BLI-205 HO 2-8-2 Heavy USRA Erie #3203 highly detailed steam locomotive with sound http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=BLI-205 BLI-206 HO 2-8-2 Heavy USRA Erie #3211 highly detailed steam locomotive with sound http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=BLI-206 MDC-496 HO 2-6-0 Loco Kit - Old Time Mogul, 63"" drivers - Colorado & Southern http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=MDC-496 Diesels: ATL-7001 HO Classic ALCo RS-3 Boston & Maine (Blue/White/Black) #1508 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-7001 ATL-7002 HO Classic ALCo RS-3 Boston & Maine (Blue/White/Black) #1536 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-7002 ATL-7005 HO Classic ALCo RS-3 Delaware & Hudson (Black/Yellow with end stripes) #4067 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-7005 ATL-7006 HO Classic ALCo RS-3 Delaware & Hudson (Black/Yellow with end stripes) #4069 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-7006 ATL-7009 HO Classic ALCo RS-3 Jersey Central (Red/White-Coast Guard) #1540 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-7009 ATL-7010 HO Classic ALCo RS-3 Jersey Central (Red/White-Coast Guard) #1552 http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-7010 ATL-9536 HO Master Series H16-44 diesel switcher Lackawanna #930 Black & Yellow http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-9536 ATL-9537 HO Master Series H16-44 diesel switcher Lackawanna #934 Black & Yellow http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATL-9537 STW-6225 HO ALCo C-630 Lehigh Valley Cornell Red & black http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=STW-6225 Freight: ATH-91308 HO 50' RBL Erie Lackawanna Blue & White (General Foods) Plug Door Box Car http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=ATH-91308 Passenger: Branchline 80' passenger coaches singles are in: various roadnames- NYC (3 versions), D&H, Erie, B&M, NKP, C&O and DL&W. Others will be released at the end of this month including Erie Lackawanna & Rutland. Sets of 3, all roadnames, were shipped in limited quantities and are being reshipped at the end of this month. http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=BRA-5120 The Branchline Pullman Sleeper cars will be out in March/April 2004. In addition to the announced five years ago 8-1-2 Plan 3979A and the 10-1-2 Plan 3585A Sleepers, they have now announced three additional sleepers. 12-1 Plan 3410A (of interest to locals are B&M, NKP, NH, PRR & NYC and of course, Undecorated); a 10-1-1 sleeper plan 3973/3973A (L&N & N&W); and a 6-3 sleeper plan 3523/3523A (PRR & NYC). We have put these all up on our web site, and we will take reservations for any of these listed. There are many other roadnames to be available. MSRP $39.95 Our price $34.95 We are sold out of Twin Tank Milk Cars from Funaro & Camerlengo, however we still have some "Butterdish" Milk Cars left!! Get'em while they last. http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/item.cfm?item_code=FUN-1012 We have broken our newsletters up into HO scale (the one you are now reading) and N Scale. Please advise us if you want our N scale newsletter as well or instead. Thanks for your continued support. - -Joe Jordan 20th Century Hobbies, Inc. http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000a01c3ed98$cd357370$cfd420cc_@_WEB2> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:37:21 -0800 From: "William E. Botkin" Subject: (erielack) New Book with DL&W Content Folks, In case you missed it, there is a new book out (2003 publication date) with some very nice DL&W content. It is Classic American Railroads, Volume 3 by our "very own" (The Diamond) Mike Schafer. Pages 44 through 55 are devoted to a brief history of the DL&W and the text is accompanied by many previously-unpublished photos. This text is third in a very nice series by Mike Schafer mostly fallen flag roads. Volume 2 (More Classic American Railroads) covered the Erie. Many of the photos are from Mike DelVecchio's and Bob Bahr's collections. A particular favorite of mine is a shot by J.J.Wheelihan of HB-9 headed by FTs A-B-B-A passing under the concrete footbridge at the Hopatcong Station in 1960. Bill Botkin Centennial, CO ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1076174740.40251f943d0a2_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:25:40 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: (erielack) Athearn GP Looking for Home Sorry for the plug... I have a custom decorated Athearn GP7 EL #1279 GMY looking for a home. Have pictures. Contact off list if interested. Either for trade or for sale. - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <18f.2539db5e.2d567bb9_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:34:49 EST From: Njricky2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! D&H was on the east bank of the river and O&W was on the west bank. DLW used O&W tracks entering I believe from the DLW Diamond Branch in Scranton. DLW's Winton Branch was up on the East Mountain originating in Nay Aug. It more or less paralleled the Erie on the East Mountain (Dunmore, Throop, Olyphant, etc.) Once you got farther north (Throop, Underwood, Jessup) things got pretty confusing with the various switchbacks, separate corporate names for the mine branches (most of which I believe were owned by Erie). NYSW even played a role in there. How far north DLW went, of that I'm unsure. I know there was much discussion about this a while back and I believe someone had worked on a map dating from the 1930s that showed the various branches. Can someone refresh my memory on this? Many thanks, Rick Sedlisky ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <76.37814398.2d56e016_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:43:02 EST From: DLW1155_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Erie #5 Erie No. 5 "American Liberty" is indeed on display at the Railroad Historical Center 908 South Main Street, Greenwood, South Carolina. My longtime friend Dick Reitmeyer is a docent at the museum and sent me one of their brochures a while back. Also on display is E-L diner 746. Dick took some photos of them this past summer and sent copies to me. He's a big E-L fan so the cars have a good gaurdian keeping an eye on them and helping with their preservation as best he can. Al Holleuffer ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <128.3b0ae8b2.2d56f22f_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:00:15 EST From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) ELHS Archive sale item : Erie Railroad: Its Beginnings...and today The ELHS Archives has an Erie Railroad commemorative booklet on sale entitled "Erie Railroad: Its Beginnings...and today" produced in 1951 to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the railroad's beginning in 1851. See the link below to access this item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2223978998 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040208000439.006d26bc_@_mail.copper.net> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 00:04:39 -0500 From: JJordan Subject: (erielack) NYU student railroad documentary Gentlemen- Maybe someone out there can help this graduate student do a documentary on a "real model railroader" in the NY/NJ Metro area. If interested, contact him directly at . - -Joe Jordan At 03:43 PM 2/7/04 -0600, you wrote: >Hey Jordan > > Thanks for your reply and for the webpages. They are great, but since this documentary piece will only last 10 minutes, I'm afraid that taking such a large subject as the would be too difficult to handle. > > What I'would ask you is to give me names of good model railroaders that you know who live in the Jersey City-New York-Long Island area, so I can contact them and see if they're interested in being the subject of a short documentary. I would really apreciate your help... > Thanks in advance. > >Best, > > Marcos Sanchez > ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1187 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000201c3ee5c$5691bf20$fad24b0c_@_pavilion> References: <200402081032.i18AW01v019824_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:58:02 -0800 From: "Blake D. Tatar" Subject: (erielack) Re: Erie #5 Speaking of ex-Erie passenger cars, there are a few modernized coaches near the CNJ station in Wilkes-Barre. Blake D. Tatar Custom painting, repairs and modifications of model railroad equipment. Brass a Specialty. E-mail : BDTatar_@_worldnet.att.net Website @ : http://BlakeDTatar.com All mail is scanned by Norton Internet Security prior to sending! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <158.2d22bb15.2d57a775_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:53:41 EST From: Erielack1_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Windhjam Tragedy Following is an EL from Lynn Davis, former EL Marion train dispatcher that he asked me to post for him. A couple notes about the Windham tragedy. 3657 and 3667 were both SDP45's The crew was an IDR crew out of Meadville, but the head brakeman was a Marion man. Sometimes for mileage equalization a person from the opposite end of the pool would be allowed to bid on the job until the miles were even. I knew the headman from the Marion Railfan Society and it was my understanding he quite the RR right after this happened, not wanting to tempt fate again. Thanks, Lynn PS for those that have forgotten, both 3657 and 3667 were rebuilt with SD45-2 long hoods. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:09:56 EST From: Erielack1_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) NIRX 60017 Box cars in this service where RBL and had plug doors. Packaged product needed the DL protection to prevent damage in transit. Also needed the water tight plug doors to keep moisture out. Bob Stafford ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000801c3ee5a$ce504420$879482d1_@_Kitchen> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:47:05 -0500 From: "John Redden" Subject: (erielack) Engine Failure Report 22-May-1962 Digging through May 1962 engine failures, found this interesting one about a sick FT. JR ERIE-LACKAWANNA RAILROAD COMPANY Hornell, New York May 22, 1962 Report of Engine Failure Place: Scranton Division: Scranton Susquehanna Date: 5-19-62 Train: TBX Engine: 6214-6352 Detention: Mileage: 100 cars 7022-7021 4285 tons Cause: 7021 shut down Scranton a/c low oil pressure- to go in shop at Hornell. Also down Binghamton to Hornell. Responsibility and Action taken: On arrival back at Hornell inspection developed fuel oil diluted- 7 injectors leaking Nos 1-2-4-5-6-9-12 Injectors changed. CC: G.w.Conway L.G.Robinson J.D.McFadden ORIGINAL SIGNED BY E. BRANNING, General Master Mechanic ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:53:27 EST From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) ELHS Archive sale item : Erie Railroad: Its Beginnings...and today The ELHS Archives has an Erie Railroad commemorative booklet on sale entitled "Erie Railroad: Its Beginnings...and today" produced in 1951 to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the railroad's beginning in 1851. See the link below to access this item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2223978998 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000e01c3ee6a$6b4d2db0$0200a8c0_@_none> References: <200402081032.i18AW01v019824_@_net.bluemoon.net> <000201c3ee5c$5691bf20$fad24b0c@pavilion> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:38:52 -0600 From: "Bill Weibel" Subject: Re: (erielack) Re: Erie #5 Aren't those ex-Reading coaches? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake D. Tatar" To: Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: (erielack) Re: Erie #5 > Speaking of ex-Erie passenger cars, there are a few modernized coaches near > the CNJ station in Wilkes-Barre. > > Blake D. Tatar > > Custom painting, repairs and modifications > of model railroad equipment. Brass a Specialty. > > E-mail : BDTatar_@_worldnet.att.net > Website @ : http://BlakeDTatar.com > > All mail is scanned by Norton Internet Security > prior to sending! > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40268CA3.9010701_@_lucent.com> References: <200402071032.i17AW1Ui056500_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:23:15 -0500 From: David M Goessling Subject: (erielack) Re: Olyphant, PA here's a history, a few photos... http://stcyrils.tripod.com/olyphant/ according to another PA place origins website, Olyphant was named for a D&H president. dmg ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <410-22004208212420459_@_earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 16:24:20 -0500 From: "Philip Martin" Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. Banjos were smash boards, (with air whistles attached), to protect interlocked draw bridges. They were taken out in Jersey, in recent years. Philip Martin martinpl3_@_earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: > To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; > Cc: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; > Date: 2/4/2004 1:42:11 PM > Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. > > In a message dated 2/3/04 10:02:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ELDL222 writes: > > > OS'ers and open Stations that OSed trains(I have been told that OS= On > > Station, but I have also heard it is On Circuit, but I don't know where the > > "S" came from) gave a dispatcher train location information on large > > sections of railroad where they had automatic signals and which they were in > > between control points(CP*). > > OS stood for "On Sheet" or "On Station". > The OSers referred to may ahve been what some called "telltales" to let as > Dispatcher or open station know the location where a train was passing. > > > > > The Erie also had a large area that had automatics (and no CTC Control > > Points CP's) between Hornell and Corning, with, maybe in early years with > > open stations (to OS trains) at Canisteo, Cameron, and Addison. > > Actually wasn't is between Portage(PB) and Binghamton? Recall Portage was a > Spring switch, then there was West NT(est leg of wye to River Line) then River > Jct > Was ABS 251(signalled in single direction on each track) between River Jct > and Cass St in Hornell, then a short stint of CTC between Cass St and ZY(East > Hornell) then ABS 251 essentially all the way to Bighamton. (CR CTC'd thru > Corning in the late 70's early 80's, East, West, North Glass (Corning Sec > connection) Gang Mills etc.. all the way to Horseheads and Elmira(FS) and beyond that > to Binghamton was agin ABS251 > with semaphores and a mix of searchlight and trilight signals. > > > > > An interesting thing about the Erie they had "poor man's CTC", this is > > where there was a double semaphore and the dispatcher could set the lower > > blade semaphore to stop (remotely from his office), and the train would stop > > and call the dispatcher and be told to open the switch and take the siding. > > I believe "Poor Mans' CTC " involves spring switches with controlled signals > on single track, much like the Eries' Delaware Division in later years. The > operation you refer to was "Take siding signals" at QN and VN, There were also > call for train order signals(I beleiev they looked a bit like PRR Banjo > signals) used at certain locations as well. > GWL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <410-22004208213758786_@_earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 16:37:58 -0500 From: "Philip Martin" Subject: Re: (erielack) February Calendar I just can't believe that about NJ Transit - that they'd be smart enough to run the first train with an engine head out. I heard a story years ago about a PRR Harrisburg division dispatcher who got fired. A train pulled a knuckle, and when they replaced it, left the damaged one in the gauge of the track, or an adjacent track. An other train came along, hit it, and got derailed. The dispatcher was fired for not finding out where the first train had left the damaged knuckle. Philip Martin martinpl3_@_earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: Gary R. Kazin > To: EL List > Date: 2/2/2004 9:39:04 AM > Subject: Re: (erielack) February Calendar > > I don't have the calendar, so I don't know the time frame. > > On a Sunday some time in the late 1980's, a charter trip ran out the Erie > side to Warwick and Middletown, NY. During the trip, the consist was wyed > at Campbell Hall. On the return, it struck a mounted truck tire between > the rails. The engineer had seen it and dumped the air, so damage was > minor - the engine's plow took most of the damage. > > Later, NJT wanted to sue the organizing group for damage to the train. It > was pointed out that if the charter hadn't run, the tire would have been > struck by the first Main Line train on Monday. That train would have been > led by a cab car; at that time the cab card did not have plows. The > damage would have been much more serious and a derailment would have been > possible. NJT dropped the idea of suing the trip organizers and began > running the first train of the day with a locomotive leading - all year round. > > ===== > Gary R. Kazin > DL&W Milepost R35.7 > Rockaway, New Jersey > > http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003801c3ee92$49945680$964856d1_@_y6p6m1> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:24:14 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! An O&W fan Norm Barrett,from Dickson City, Pa has identified the photos as follows: > dlw4 is unknown but could be Honesdale? > dlw5 is definitely O&W looking north from Lackawanna Ave Blakley at the > Blakley, Dickson, Olyphant borders. > dlw6 is O&W looking east across Lackawanna River into Olyphant > dlw7 is O&W looking north at Lackawanna Ave. Track on left is NYS&W, middle > and right tracks are O&W. > dlw8 is O&W looking west. Lackawanna Ave divides Dickson on the left and > Blakley on the right. The Lackawanna river and Olyphant are behind the > photographer. > > Some really great photos that I would like to get copies of. > > Regards > > Norm ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004801c3eeaf$d045f900$6401a8c0_@_Roy1> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 20:55:37 -0500 From: "Roy W. Scheckermann" Subject: (erielack) NJ timetables I've got two timetable that I will be selling. One NJ Transit Morristown Line April 26, 1981, includes Montclair and Gladstone branches and a Conrail, NJ Dept. of Transportation, Morristown line with Montclair and Gladstone branches, effective July 1, 1976. Also, one O gauge wooden thru truss bridge kit by Miami Valley Products Co. It's 36 inches long with a single track plus one set of wooden piers. Please contact me offline. Thanks, Roy W. Scheckermann rschecke_@_optonline.net ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1e9.18702943.2d584ad4_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:30:44 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Atlas, and the H-24-66 Train Masters At the Springfield Railroad Show yesterday I got to briefly, cause of the crowds, talk to just one Atlas representative. Unfortunately it was not the gentleman associated with the H-16-44 project nor the one associated with the Train Master project. I did relate that I was disappointed that no one from Atlas ever responded to my critique of the H-16-44s. His response was that he thought they had. All I ever saw was a short brief email stating altering the cab would have involved altering the frame, and that after the Holidays they would respond further. If there was a second email, I never saw it. They did alter the cabs by eliminating the half moon windows but not the flare, and the basic's facts are that when the half moon windows disappeared so should have the flared cabs. Only 3 units were ever built ( ACY ) after the half moon windows disappeared, that still kept the flair. All the rest from that point on had a strait sided cabs, so if the planning would have been correct from the very beginning the notch in the frame could have been build to accept both the original cab and a corrected or second version. That's all I will say about that, and any of my other critiques that I stand firm on. What I will say is I thought that this EL list, or shall l say a few individuals, hit a new low in December by insinuating that they hope my shading light on flaws and discrepancy in the H-16-44 would not steer Atlas way from doing other EL related units. For one, I will ALWAYS tell it LIKE IT IS and two, if you really think one person pointing out flaws on a particular model will make a national model maker shy away from a major market you are in a sad state of mind, in more ways than one! Now: Telling it like it is, Let me mention the Four undecorated Shells representing the Train Master that Atlas had on display. Since I'm sure this project has been in the making for years just like the H-16-44 was let me state that several of my criticisms of the H-16-44 were not present or shall we say, were corrected. Because of the length of the project I'm sure I had nothing to do with that, but was happy to see it non the less. There are not all that many variables on the Train Masters and Atlas has already done four ever so slightly different shells. The four variables they have to line up with the different Railroads as I see it are. 1 Louver configuration with the different phases. 2 Headlight positioning. 3 Size of the number boards 4 Handrails. I suppose you could consider a fifth, as the dropped ends that two roads had, but I don't think, from what was at Springfield, they are going to address that? Maybe they are but its not Lackawanna, and the other groups or individuals can address that. FOR THE LACKAWANNA: 1. Pretty simple: the phase 2s ( 850 & 861 ) lost 5 sets of louvers up top, and gained two on the carbody per side, and that was represented on two of the four undecorated shells. 2. Head lights on the original phase 1A were long hood slightly below center of number boards. Short Hood, well below number boards. On phase 2s ( 860 & 861) it was slightly above center on long hood, and slightly below center on short hood. If I recall, just going by memory, those variations were represented on some of the shells. 3. Phase 2s ( 860-861 ) had slightly larger number boards. I Think Atlas addressed this??? 4. Only the four FM demonstrators, and the original ten ( 850-859 ) DL&Ws had the strait hand rails and I'm happy to say there was one shell there that had the strait hand rails. IF, Atlas can get these four interchangeable variations lined up on the right units, and come up with decent color gloss paint, they will have produced a very nice looking unit. I didn't have any photos with me, so I couldn't compare anything to anything at Springfield, was just working from memory. I do know that not every phase there had the right combination, so................................... As one would continue to hope and expect, they are rising the bar higher, buy having individual door handles on each side door. :) Other required necessities that appear to be there are twin sealed beam, drop step, drop step light, both bar and chain at the end walk ways and of course individual fans. I'm not sure of its official name, but the small additional box just horizontally opposite the MU jumper receptacle, which allowed the units to MU dynamic braking with EMD units was in the proper position on the phase 1 models by being latterly along side. On the phase 2 units this appears to be on a vertical alignment and I'm not sure if that was properly addressed by Atlas? Again just going by memory now that I'm home and can look at some photos. Paul, please feel free to forward this email to any of your friends at Atlas, for I never kept the addresses you previously supplied me. Telling it as I see it. Bob Bahrs ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <7b.224d1910.2d5852aa_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:04:10 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Atlas and there New H-16-44 Please disregard if you previously received this. Am resending it to the EL list since it never originally came through, at least on my computer. At the Springfield Railroad Show yesterday I got to briefly, cause of the crowds, talk to just one Atlas representative. Unfortunately it was not the gentleman associated with the H-16-44 project nor the one associated with the Train Master project. I did relate that I was disappointed that no one from Atlas ever responded to my critique of the H-16-44s. His response was that he thought they had. All I ever saw was a short brief email stating altering the cab would have involved altering the frame, and that after the Holidays they would respond further. If there was a second email, I never saw it. They did alter the cabs by eliminating the half moon windows but not the flare, and the basic's facts are that when the half moon windows disappeared so should have the flared cabs. Only 3 units were ever built ( ACY ) after the half moon windows disappeared, that still kept the flair. All the rest from that point on had a strait sided cabs, so if the planning would have been correct from the very beginning the notch in the frame could have been build to accept both the original cab and a corrected or second version. That's all I will say about that, and any of my other critiques that I stand firm on. What I will say is I thought that this EL list, or shall l say a few individuals, hit a new low in December by insinuating that they hope my shading light on flaws and discrepancy in the H-16-44 would not steer Atlas way from doing other EL related units. For one, I will ALWAYS tell it LIKE IT IS and two, if you really think one person pointing out flaws on a particular model will make a national model maker shy away from a major market you are in a sad state of mind, in more ways than one! Now: Telling it like it is, Let me mention the Four undecorated Shells representing the Train Master that Atlas had on display. Since I'm sure this project has been in the making for years just like the H-16-44 was let me state that several of my criticisms of the H-16-44 were not present or shall we say, were corrected. Because of the length of the project I'm sure I had nothing to do with that, but was happy to see it non the less. There are not all that many variables on the Train Masters and Atlas has already done four ever so slightly different shells. The four variables they have to line up with the different Railroads as I see it are. 1 Louver configuration with the different phases. 2 Headlight positioning. 3 Size of the number boards 4 Handrails. I suppose you could consider a fifth, as the dropped ends that two roads had, but I don't think, from what was at Springfield, they are going to address that? Maybe they are but its not Lackawanna, and the other groups or individuals can address that. FOR THE LACKAWANNA: 1. Pretty simple: the phase 2s ( 850 & 861 ) lost 5 sets of louvers up top, and gained two on the carbody per side, and that was represented on two of the four undecorated shells. 2. Head lights on the original phase 1A were long hood slightly below center of number boards. Short Hood, well below number boards. On phase 2s ( 860 & 861) it was slightly above center on long hood, and slightly below center on short hood. If I recall, just going by memory, those variations were represented on some of the shells. 3. Phase 2s ( 860-861 ) had slightly larger number boards. I Think Atlas addressed this??? 4. Only the four FM demonstrators, and the original ten ( 850-859 ) DL&Ws had the strait hand rails and I'm happy to say there was one shell there that had the strait hand rails. IF, Atlas can get these four interchangeable variations lined up on the right units, and come up with decent color gloss paint, they will have produced a very nice looking unit. I didn't have any photos with me, so I couldn't compare anything to anything at Springfield, was just working from memory. I do know that not every phase there had the right combination, so................................... As one would continue to hope and expect, they are rising the bar higher, buy having individual door handles on each side door. :) Other required necessities that appear to be there are twin sealed beam, drop step, drop step light, both bar and chain at the end walk ways and of course individual fans. I'm not sure of its official name, but the small additional box just horizontally opposite the MU jumper receptacle, which allowed the units to MU dynamic braking with EMD units was in the proper position on the phase 1 models by being latterly along side. On the phase 2 units this appears to be on a vertical alignment and I'm not sure if that was properly addressed by Atlas? Again just going by memory now that I'm home and can look at some photos. Paul, please feel free to forward this email to any of your friends at Atlas, for I never kept the addresses you previously supplied me. Telling it as I see it. Bob Bahrs ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040208220831.0208af40_@_pop.west.cox.net> References: <000a01c3ed98$cd357370$cfd420cc_@_WEB2> In-Reply-To: <000a01c3ed98$cd357370$cfd420cc_@_WEB2> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 22:11:55 -0800 From: Timothy Costello Subject: (erielack) Erie RS2, EL C424 models for sale Erielack listers: I have several models on sale at ebay, including a Life Like P1K Erie RS2, and an Atlas/Kato EL C424 in black and yellow. They can be found at this url: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=nj-ny.mp21&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 Best regards, Tim Costello ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1188 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <19c.1ff2a98a.2d58d61c_@_aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 07:25:00 EST From: STEVEZ10_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) New Siding?? I read on railroad.net that a new siding is being built adjacent to the Chester Branch just south of Chester Jct. on the old DL&W.....Anyone know what it will be used for?? Extra storage space or is it for loading of soil from that location?? Thanks in advance, Steve Link http://community.webshots.com/photo/99695801/117143699CAFWFU ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <2ED30DE5D008D94EB4BB8E6F9D8FC82802CC8E6F_@_msg01wyn.tru.com> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:41:32 -0500 From: "Palmer, Brian" Subject: RE: (erielack) DL&W MOW questions List: What is the appropriate tank car in HO for these decals? Brian - -----Original Message----- From: Paul R. Tupaczewski [mailto:paultup_@_optonline.net] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 2:31 PM To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: (erielack) DL&W MOW questions Hi folks, I'm just finishing laying out the DL&W MOW set (artwork is essentially complete), but the tricky part is sizing up the lettering. I've scaled most of it, but here's what I'm looking for. If anyone can help provide this info, I'd be most grateful. * The size of the "DL&W 36xx" on the side of the troop sleeper bunk cars. There was one shorter Roman typeface that was used on most of these cars that appears to scale out to 6-1/2" high, can anyone confirm? * The size of the "DL&W 95xxx" lettering on the ENDS of the tank cars. For that matter, what are the correct values for the "CAPY" and "LD LMT"? Thanks! - Paul ======================================================================== This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient (s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. To reply to our email administrator directly, send an email to EmailAdmin_@_toysrus.com. Toys "R" Us, Inc. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040209031122.XGM25581.out001.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <000e01c3ee6a$6b4d2db0$0200a8c0_@_none> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:11:03 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Re: Erie #5 There's a mix of cars that were (are?) part of the restaurant there. One or more were ERIE cars. SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Bill Weibel > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 12:39 PM > To: Blake D. Tatar; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Re: Erie #5 > > > Aren't those ex-Reading coaches? > > Bill > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Blake D. Tatar" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 9:58 AM > Subject: (erielack) Re: Erie #5 > > > > Speaking of ex-Erie passenger cars, there are a few > modernized coaches > near > > the CNJ station in Wilkes-Barre. > > > > Blake D. Tatar > > > > Custom painting, repairs and modifications > > of model railroad equipment. Brass a Specialty. > > > > E-mail : BDTatar_@_worldnet.att.net > > Website @ : http://BlakeDTatar.com > > > > All mail is scanned by Norton Internet Security > > prior to sending! > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040209033140.YSCB17235.out011.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <01C3ED18.1EEF40A0.cthurner_@_adelphia.net> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:31:21 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Atlas Trainmasters I saw the shells yesterday at Springfield. No complete models. The shells are beautiful, fans under screens, really terrific. Too many people around the Atlas booth, and not enough people in it, to talk to any of them. SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of > Christopher Thurner > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 1:17 AM > To: Mailgroup (E-mail) > Subject: (erielack) Atlas Trainmasters > > Listers: > > It looks like those who guessed that the FM Trainmaster would > be Atlas' > first production model with sound (HO) got it right! They're > releasing 5 in DL&W. > > They are releasing 5 units (3 - with DCC plug and 2 with a > decoder already installed). As with recent releases, the > decoder equipped ones are numbered and the DCC ready ones > come with two numbered units and one w/o a #. > > See them at: http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/hotrainmaster.htm. > > Regards, > > Chris Thurner > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040209040607.VJKF13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:05:48 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! Photos 6, 7, and 8 are all the same place. Look at the unusual telephone pole with a zig in the middle, you will, I believe, agree that there >probably< isn't more than one pole like that. Photo 8 identifies it as Olyphant. That's also an ERIE standard gate tower, though the base is enclosed from the original design. There was one like this in Binghamton, east of the Chenango Street viaduct. Therefore, that track is ERIE track, the Jefferson Railroad, later the Jefferson Division, and is indeed what later became D&H track. ERIE built it, D&H was a tenant, until around (I think) 1950, when it was sold to the D&H and the ERIE became the tenant. The wreck pictures are sobering, very sobering . . . SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Frank Adams > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 9:45 PM > To: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com; wshultz1@twcny.rr.com; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: RE: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! > > didn't the DL&W Winton branch go thru Olyphant? > > Frank Adams > ELHS 2116 > > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of Dlw1el2_@_aol.com > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:15 PM > To: wshultz1_@_twcny.rr.com; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Even more mystery DL&W photos! > > > In a message dated 2/6/2004 4:52:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, > wshultz1_@_twcny.rr.com writes: > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielac k-02-06-04 > > > > dlw8.jpg (image/jpeg, 182516 bytes) > > dlw1.jpg (image/jpeg, 265336 bytes) > > dlw2.jpg (image/jpeg, 246923 bytes) > > dlw3.jpg (image/jpeg, 253981 bytes) > > dlw4.jpg (image/jpeg, 207670 bytes) > > dlw5.jpg (image/jpeg, 220038 bytes) > > dlw6.jpg (image/jpeg, 177624 bytes) > > dlw7.jpg (image/jpeg, 248266 bytes) > > > I believe these are not Lackawanna photos for many different > reasons which I won't go into. I do believe they are in the > Olyphant , Peckville, area north > of Scranton on the D&H or what would become the D&H. O&W I > believe is on > the > west bank of the river through there and these appear to be > on the east bank of the river, but it's been a while since I > visited that area. > > > The first batch is the Rockport Wreck! > > Bob Bahrs > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001101c0a69a$cc061920$7c59bacc_@_default> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:58:22 -0700 From: Frank Adams Subject: (erielack) New Branchline Passenger Equipment Any comments on the new release from Branchline Trains 2/2/2004 Passenger Cars: HO 80' Coaches? http://www.branchline-trains.com/newreleases/new_releases.htm #5128 DL&W $39.95 retail thanks, Frank Adams ELHS 2116 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <402839D2.2090800_@_bcpl.net> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 20:54:26 -0500 From: Gordon Davids Subject: Re: (erielack) Railroad Telegraphy. The term "Banjo Signal" is colloquial, but generally referred to a type of signal developed by Hall Signal Company and used primarily on the Reading. They had a large wood housing, circular on top and tapered on the bottom, with a hole in the middle. Colored panels were placed in the hole by a relay mechanism to provide the aspects. Most Erie "Telephone Train Order" signals were position light signals similar to those used on the PRR. They did not supercede the indications of interlocking or block signals, but indicated whether a train was to stop and telephone for instructions. These were mostly used at outlying crossovers or sidings in double track automatic block signal territory. The instructions given to trains that stopped and called were usually not train orders per se, but verbal instructions to either take siding, to proceed, or to pull up and then back through the crossover to the opposite track to enable a following train to pass. In dobule track ABS territory these moves did not require train orders, but merely instructions or permission from the train dispatcher. During later days of the Erie Lackawanna, there were no open train order offices or controlled points at night on the old Delaware Division between Gulf Summit and Mill Rift. Trains entered at one end, and came out the other if everything worked OK. If not, the dispatcher would contact a train either by radio (hopefully) or by setting a Telephone Train Order Signal, and then have that train take siding (not many of them) or pull past the trailing point crossover and back to the opposite track to allow the following train(s) to pass. The closest Telephone Train Order signal to Hoboken in 1968 was at BT (Passaic Jct) at the crossover near the NYSW interchange track switch. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40286925.000001.84683_@_DONS PC> References: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:16:21 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Donald E Kern Jr" Subject: Re: (erielack) New Branchline Passenger Equipment NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-10-04 IMSTP.gif (image/gif, 494 bytes) endless_sky2.jpg (image/jpeg, 5263 bytes) Frank, They are Good for ERIE / EL? and in DLW/NYC&STL Through Services as Nickel Plate Cars however DL&W's Coaches were Shorter 70ft The 246 class cars are Similar to Reading/CNJ PBm However the Pullman Sleepers coming (10-1-2 Lake Series) will have 3 cars used by DLW then Owned after Pullman selloff, Don - -------Original Message------- From: Frank Adams Date: 02/09/04 18:09:02 To: ELHS Mailing List Subject: (erielack) New Branchline Passenger Equipment Any comments on the new release from Branchline Trains 2/2/2004 Passenger Cars: HO 80' Coaches? http://www.branchline-trains.com/newreleases/new_releases.htm #5128 DL&W $39.95 retail thanks, Frank Adams ELHS 2116 - --------------Boundary-00=_9ZRULVC0000000000000 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040210004508.006a9520_@_mail.copper.net> References: In-Reply-To: <40286925.000001.84683_@_DONS PC> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:45:08 -0500 From: JJordan Subject: Re: (erielack) New Branchline Passenger Equipment Don- WOW!! What was that image? Blinking!!! Flashing!!! It gave me a MicroSoft "blue screen" error!!! - -Joe Jordan Train Nut Central At 12:16 AM 2/10/04 -0500, you wrote: >NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. >To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: > > >http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-10-04 > >IMSTP.gif (image/gif, 494 bytes) >endless_sky2.jpg (image/jpeg, 5263 bytes) > >Frank, They are Good for ERIE / EL? and in DLW/NYC&STL Through Services as >Nickel Plate Cars however DL&W's Coaches were Shorter 70ft The 246 class >cars are Similar to Reading/CNJ PBm >However the Pullman Sleepers coming (10-1-2 Lake Series) will have 3 cars >used by DLW then Owned after Pullman selloff, Don > >-------Original Message------- > >From: Frank Adams >Date: 02/09/04 18:09:02 >To: ELHS Mailing List >Subject: (erielack) New Branchline Passenger Equipment > >Any comments on the new release from Branchline Trains 2/2/2004 Passenger >Cars: HO 80' Coaches? > >http://www.branchline-trains.com/newreleases/new_releases.htm > >#5128 DL&W $39.95 retail > >thanks, > >Frank Adams >ELHS 2116 > >--------------Boundary-00=_9ZRULVC0000000000000 > ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1189 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1e0.1922077b.2d5a1221_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:53:21 EST From: RJFlei_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Erie Green List, I now understand what some of you have been talking about. My model RR equipment has been in boxes for a couple of years due to us moving. I recently got a Walthers Erie sleeper. Also have the Rivarossi Erie passenger car set, and the P2K Erie E-8's, which I pulled out of their boxes. Was a bit bummed out to see that instead of being the same, they're all different colors! Looks like I'll have the funniest looking Erie passenger train on the planet. Any suggestions? Rick Fleischer ELHS 1426 Cortland, Oh. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <129.3b137d29.2d5a1312_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:57:22 EST From: Andrisd_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Erie Green In a message dated 2/10/2004 5:54:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, RJFlei_@_aol.com writes: Looks like I'll have the funniest looking Erie passenger train on the planet. Any suggestions? Operate overnights and twilight trains. Andy Cole ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000201c3efe3$9c1a74a0$2cef4b0c_@_pavilion> References: <200402101032.i1AAW0o1016938_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:38:49 -0800 From: "Blake D. Tatar" Subject: (erielack) Re: New Branchline Passenger Equipment Bill has done a great job on these new cars. Floor and ends are 1 piece, sides and roof are separate. This means that all he has to do is make different side molds and he can have a different car. The variety of cars will be quite great with this type of kit. Wish he would do N scale!! Blake D. Tatar Custom painting, repairs and modifications of model railroad equipment. Brass a Specialty. E-mail : BDTatar_@_worldnet.att.net Website @ : http://BlakeDTatar.com All mail is scanned by Norton Internet Security prior to sending! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <011401c3efd9$98bef920$301672d8_@_robertch> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:27:11 -0600 From: "Bob Chupka" Subject: (erielack) Erie cars at Wilkes-Barre List, The cars that are mentioned as being in Wilkes-Barre are coaches 1001 and 1012 which were sold to the D&H and then sold by the D&H to Marvin Roth in the late seventies when he was refurbishing the former CNJ station at W-B into of all things The Station Restaurant and Nightclub. I intimated this on this list some time ago and these cars have been heavily modified or chopped up on the inward side ( that facing the inside of the building) to accommodate the dining area for the restaurant. Chupka ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4035_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:41:33 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes Hello all, I've been having a little discussion off-line with another list member regarding factory paint jobs, and I wanted to ask all the list members their thoughts on this... Here's my poll question (please reply directly to either paultup_@_optonline.net or paultup@lucent.com with your response) * When purchasing a pre-painted factory model, do you prefer: - a GLOSSY paint job? (highly reflective and shiny) - a FLAT or MATTE paint job? (a dull tone) Thanks! - Paul Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ Lucent Technologies Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 Performance Test Team 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040210084029.01ae5c98_@_64.136.28.166> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:42:36 -0500 From: Ken Subject: (erielack) Hillsdale County Railroad Listers, When a number of ex-Conrail lines in Michigan were to be abandoned, two counties assumed operation of different lines, one of which is Hillsdale County. The county subsequently sold the line. The link is to a photo of a Hillsdale County Railroad train. Note the two box cars immediately behind the locomotive: http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Railroads/Other/HillsdaleCountyRR.htm Ken Bush ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <4028E0EE.5050307_@_sbcglobal.net> References: <200402091032.i19AW01O009653_@_net.bluemoon.net> In-Reply-To: <200402091032.i19AW01O009653_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:47:26 -0500 From: "J. McEachen" Subject: (erielack) Re: EL List Daily V3 #1188 My nephew from Simpson says that the domes in the background are most likely Sts. Cyril and Methodius Greek Catholic Church in Olyphant. He says there are tracks in the area. It and All Saints Russian Orthodox Church were rebuilt sometime way back, but these domes are familiar. Definitely not a "mosque," it is typical of a NE Penna. Orthodox or Greek Catholic Church, with the "onion domes." Joel McEachen in CT >>From Archives_@_Railfan.net >Message-ID: <40268CA3.9010701_@_lucent.com> >References: <200402071032.i17AW1Ui056500_@_net.bluemoon.net> >Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:23:15 -0500 >From: David M Goessling >Subject: (erielack) Re: Olyphant, PA > >here's a history, a few photos... > >http://stcyrils.tripod.com/olyphant/ > >according to another PA place origins website, Olyphant was named for a D&H president. >dmg > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <4028E2D2.838A6D74_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4035_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:55:30 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes Why no semi gloss option? But of the two, gloss. I'd rather dull it down than shine it up. Besides that's the way it happens on the prototype isn't it? Will "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" wrote: > > Hello all, > > I've been having a little discussion off-line with another list member regarding factory paint jobs, and I wanted to ask all the list members their thoughts on this... > > Here's my poll question (please reply directly to either paultup_@_optonline.net or paultup@lucent.com with your response) > > * When purchasing a pre-painted factory model, do you prefer: > > - a GLOSSY paint job? (highly reflective and shiny) > - a FLAT or MATTE paint job? (a dull tone) > > Thanks! > > - Paul > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001c01c3efde$77464d20$98b91842_@_YOURFF6EE6628B> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:02:05 -0500 From: "Joe Sakovitch" Subject: (erielack) colors Talk about a difference in colors? Compare an n scale Life Like C424 with an Atlas Trainmaster. Noticable difference. If i remember right, the EL managed to do that as well on some of their units. I know the nose shield was sometimes different than the stripe. Makes for an interesting layout. Joe S. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040210.091046.2204.0.jimbatt1_@_juno.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:10:46 -0500 From: James G Flynn Subject: Re: (erielack) Erie Green Rick, I know what you mean. But my problem is not quite so severe. I do have 3 variations of the Erie colors. In the early years, before any model manufacturers even thought about doing the Erie paint scheme, I started painting my first 2 tone green train. I did Rivarossi E-8s and a combination of Rivarossi lightweight and Athearn heavyweight cars to create a fairly credible train. Shortly after I swung into action, Rivarossi released their Erie E's. Without a side by side comparison I thought the colors were, at least, OK. But the Rivarossi E's had lower headlights and I had already mastered removing same as well as the dynamic brakes from the roofs. Add to that, I had acquired a bunch more Rivarossi and Model Power E's that would all need modified. So I passed on the pre-painted ones, since they would all have to be repainted anyway. So I ended up with 3 pairs that had all been either undecorated or some other road name in a previous life. I used AccuPaint on all this equipment. So I never had to deal with Rivarossi's version of the colors. Incidentally, I eventually substituted Con Cor E chassis under all of these shells. Quiet, and low maintenance, pull like crazy, and pretty much bullet proof. Not long ago, Schuyler noted that he had always had trouble with AccuPaint. I agreed with him that it will leave you talking to yourself while you're spraying it. I would certainly be interested if any of the other model paint makers wanted to do CORRECT Erie colors. (Really like Floquil and Scalecoat, not crazy about most of the water based paints) But I, by sheer luck, discovered that if I thinned it way down and sprayed it on in many, many, many, thin coats, it would kind of flow out and finish out pretty nice, after all. Patience, patience, patience !!! I just recently finished 2 of the interior sliding door express boxcars in 2 tone green, and the finished product is really nice. One other thing about AccuPaint, mine, at least, has an incredible shelf life. I've got several bottles of both Erie colors squirreled away from at least 12 -15 years ago. I know this to be true because the hobby dealer I bought them from, has been dead for at least 10 years and he sold his shop a few years before he died. So the paint is probably more like 15 or more years old. It mixed and stirred like it was new. When P2K came with their E's, I loaded up again. These, I thought, were just too nice to tear into and do all of the repaints etc. So now I have Erie 2 tone green, version # 2 !!! By this time I had acquired several sets of the brass Nickel Plate coaches & diners sets. Some, I had painted with AccuPaint, and some I painted solid Pullman green. I found that I could run these pulling a Pullman green train (circa 1951) before Erie started painting the cars to match the E's. Still, not a problem. But the P2K colors do really clash with any of the AccuPaint colors. Then, recently, Walthers released the 6-6-4 sleepers. At first, I thought these would be another big problem, and I vented so on this list. BUT since they needed the car name decals (supplied with the cars) applied, as well as the wire grabs, I took them all apart, installed the details, hand brushed the wire grabs with AccuPaint Erie Green (a really close match) and sprayed the sides with Testors gloss coat to make the decals go on easier. I top-coated the sides after decals with a 50/50 mix of gloss coat and dull coat. Before I sprayed the Testors overcoats, I VERY CAREFULLY covered the window glass with liquid micro mask, since the clear plastic is glued in from the factory. I sprayed the roofs with Floquil Engine Black, and a light dusting of Grimy Black. WARNING: when you take these cars apart, send the wife and kids out on a road trip. You may use language that you haven't used since the last time you broke your finger !!! At least some of the little tabs that attach the sides to the interior structure will break off in a heartbeat. And you DO need them. I was able to re- glue any that broke off and no real harm was done but they are pain. By the time I put the cars back together and set them side by side with some AccuPaint painted equipment, I was, overall, pretty pleased. I don't know if it was painting the roof black or the last coat of 50/50 gloss coat / dull coat that did it, but the end result kept me happy. Walthers' colors aren't an exact match but not that far off either, at least to me and under my fluorescent lighting. Maybe it was getting rid of the green roof that did it. Seems like the dark green is just about right on, the gray green a little less so but not bad. Jim Flynn ELHS # 2598 jimbatt1_@_juno.com On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:53:21 EST RJFlei_@_aol.com writes: > List, > I now understand what some of you have been talking about. My > model RR > equipment has been in boxes for a couple of years due to us moving. > > I recently got a Walthers Erie sleeper. Also have the > Rivarossi Erie > passenger car set, and the P2K Erie E-8's, which I pulled out of > their boxes. > Was a bit bummed out to see that instead of being the same, they're > all > different colors! Looks like I'll have the funniest looking Erie > passenger train on > the planet. Any suggestions? > > Rick Fleischer > ELHS 1426 > Cortland, Oh. > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <006d01c3efe2$20cc8eb0$34801aac_@_clegg> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4035_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:28:17 -0500 From: "Bob Clegg" Subject: Re: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes Atlas and Lifelike Proto2000 engines, the black ones i. e. Erie, anyway are a degree of semi-gloss. I've found that this can be very closely approximated by mixing one part Floquil CSX Black which is a high gloss with two parts Floquil engine black which is dead flat. Regards, Bob ELHS 3117 NMRA 17940 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:41 AM Subject: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes > Hello all, > > I've been having a little discussion off-line with another list member regarding factory paint jobs, and I wanted to ask all the list members their thoughts on this... > > Here's my poll question (please reply directly to either paultup_@_optonline.net or paultup@lucent.com with your response) > > * When purchasing a pre-painted factory model, do you prefer: > > - a GLOSSY paint job? (highly reflective and shiny) > - a FLAT or MATTE paint job? (a dull tone) > > Thanks! > > - Paul > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > Lucent Technologies > Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > Performance Test Team > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > Whippany, NJ 07981 > _______________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040210143236.83118.qmail_@_web14306.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4035_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:32:36 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Mitchell Subject: Re: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes Paul - I prefer flat or matte. Bob Mitchell - --- "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" wrote: > Hello all, > > I've been having a little discussion off-line with > another list member regarding factory paint jobs, > and I wanted to ask all the list members their > thoughts on this... > > Here's my poll question (please reply directly to > either paultup_@_optonline.net or paultup@lucent.com > with your response) > > * When purchasing a pre-painted factory model, do > you prefer: > > - a GLOSSY paint job? (highly reflective and > shiny) > - a FLAT or MATTE paint job? (a dull tone) > > Thanks! > > - Paul > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > Lucent Technologies > Mobility Solutions > Phone: 973-386-4966 > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: > 973-386-4147 > Performance Test Team > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > Whippany, NJ 07981 > _______________________________________________ > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE403D_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:43:35 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes OK, let's add that option: SEMI-GLOSS, in addition to GLOSS and FLAT... - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Clegg [mailto:BobcatCS_@_comcast.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 9:28 AM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes > > > Atlas and Lifelike Proto2000 engines, the black ones i. e. > Erie, anyway are a degree of semi-gloss. I've found that > this can be very closely approximated by mixing one part > Floquil CSX Black which is a high gloss with two parts > Floquil engine black which is dead flat. > > Regards, > > Bob > ELHS 3117 > NMRA 17940 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:41 AM > Subject: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes > > > > Hello all, > > > > I've been having a little discussion off-line with another > list member > regarding factory paint jobs, and I wanted to ask all the > list members their thoughts on this... > > > > Here's my poll question (please reply directly to either > paultup_@_optonline.net or paultup@lucent.com with your response) > > > > * When purchasing a pre-painted factory model, do you prefer: > > > > - a GLOSSY paint job? (highly reflective and shiny) > > - a FLAT or MATTE paint job? (a dull tone) > > > > Thanks! > > > > - Paul > > > > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > > Lucent Technologies > > Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 > > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > > Performance Test Team > > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > > Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <4028F6F8.6ABFF37_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE403D_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:21:28 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes Semi-gloss. :) Will "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" wrote: > > OK, let's add that option: SEMI-GLOSS, in addition to GLOSS and FLAT... > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <9d.44415d89.2d5a4fd3_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:16:35 EST From: WSmith5957_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Re: Erie #5 Most of them are ex-RDG MU cars. THE GUY WHO OWNED THE RESTAURANT HAD SIGNS BY AN OLD OBSERVATION CAR SAYING " THIS CAR MAY HAVE BEEN HENRY FLAGLERS PRIVATE RR CAR. So much for historical accuracy........ Walt Smith ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:32:26 EST From: Hhaines_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Erie Green Dear Rick: Don't panic--it is not that big a problem. Things faded, and colors were a bit different in some cases. What year/era are you modeling? What light are you using on the layout? You did not mention which version of Rivarossi passenger cars you have--I found the heavyweights to be more helpful than the modern "1930s" streamlined. Short of repainting everything in a color yet to be delivered by the model paint manufacturers, I would recommend painting all the roofs of the passenger cars black or dark grimy black gray--one color. That is fairly simple as the cars come apart and it will pull all the other colors together in a train. It can be done with those Scalecoat or Floquil spray cans. (I do mine outside here in Montana as long as it is over 20 F. Colder, and the stuff freezes before it hits making a rough surface-which is fine for soot or a tarred roof.) Next, what are you using for headend and baggage cars? Unless you are modeling late 1950s, many of these were still Pullman green or dark Erie Green. Or you can get one or two of those F&C Erie sliding door milk cars in dark green. Later trains had REA reefer cars similar to the Walthers versions. ELHS also has a number of kits--but that is a different story. The idea is to break up the colors of the train from the engines to the passenger cars, using a solid all-dark car, or a baggage car from some other line. I seem to recall a B&O baggage and RPO in the line up from time to time, but there were others. I am modeling the East end, like New Jersey. Things west of Meadville, and again Marion were different. Then I'd check those changes under the light of your train room. Daylight will show the most differences. Incandescent shows some, and warm fluorescent (and dim) seems to show the least between the greens. Unfortunately, I have a combination of light, and some of those very high temperature (daylight) fluorescent. But the dark roofs seem to pull them all in. Besides, throwing that UP Yellow sleeper on the end (that would ride into Harriman) makes all the greens look about good. ;) Slowly, I am building a bit more accurate fleet with cars from the ELHS and Laser Horizons sides. Rivarossi heavyweight RPO and baggage (express) cars are pretty close if not right-on for some Erie cars. One of the Rivarossi-Life Like streamline Pullman cars is very close (or right on) for some of the Erie 10-6 Pullmans. The Bachmann 10-1-2 heavy weight Pullman is correct for one (and maybe more) of the Erie Scenic sleepers. Erie diners are yet a problem in plastic or resin as are the modernized heavyweight coaches. I took a Life-Like Erie Heavy Weight and cut some of the bars out of the windows, and plated some window bottoms shut. It doesn't look too bad if you keep the train rolling at 50 smph. But if we had everything we wanted, business would go bust, right? Howard Haines ELHS #1447 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40290099.8EB5BB78_@_sprint.ca> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4035_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:02:33 -0400 From: A Samostie Subject: Re: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes Dear Paul, Interesting question re: glossy / semi gloss or matte factory paint. It would be very difficult for a manufacturer to replicate my preferences: For passenger diesels (E8s, PAs), I want a glossy finish. In fact, the Proto 2000 E8s aren't quite glossy enough to replicate the sheen that the Erie and DL&W E8s retained well into the 1950s. However, there are exceptions: large amounts of white in the paint schemes of Nickel Plate and Wabash passenger diesels made them difficult to keep clean. For freight diesels, I generally prefer a flat / matte finish. However, for EL units, I think a semi-gloss finish with a light coat of weathering applied by the purchaser is best. While the Erie black-yellow paint scheme looked sharp, oxidation and fading took its toll. However, some railroads' diesels, both passenger and freight, were noted for their accumulation of road dirt and diesel grime (e.g. LV), while others (e.g. PRR tuscan) had paint schemes that oxidized quite severaly, resulting in a dull, dusky appearance. As for Penn Central... nahhh, I won't even "go there." And, for steam locomotives, -always- flat paint, except for streamlined passenger engines. Cheers, Alan Samostie ELHS #3178 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040210163002.27823.qmail_@_web10913.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:30:02 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Frost Subject: (erielack) RE: Erie Green List - Last Sunday I stopped by the Badger Air-Brush Co. booth at the Railroad Hobby Show in West Springfield, MA. Looking through their list of model railroad paint colors, I discovered they have Erielack gray, yellow, and maroon. (I don't recall seeing these paints discussed on this list.) I talked to one of the Badger representatives about Erie green and gray-green and suggested to him that there might be a market for them based on what I've heard about the difficulty in spraying AccuPaint and it's limited availability. He seemed to be aware of these colors and accepted my suggestion graciously without commitment. Bob Frost ELHS #980 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040210205553.1279.qmail_@_web40808.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:55:53 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Ogden Subject: (erielack) ELDCPS 3rd Annual Dinner I wanted to let everyone know that we have set Sunday, May 16th for our 3rd Annual Dinner at André's Restaurant in Newton, NJ. As always the proceeds will go towards the restoration of EL Diner 741. We will have more details soon, but for now save the date and join us to enjoy an authentic 4 course dinner recreating the meals served on the Erie and the Lackawanna. Tim Stuy Secretary - ELDCPS ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:24:32 -0500 From: "Timothy Phalon" Subject: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" List, I am trying to find out if the term "feather Beder" is a railroad related term and what it means. This is part of a school project for a friend. Please respond off list. Thanks Tim Phalon _________________________________________________________________ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:57:29 -0500 From: "Michael Dye" Subject: RE: (erielack) Hillsdale County Railroad Wouldn't that be THREE of the first four cars? Michael Dye ELHS #1516 >From: Ken > >The link is to a photo of a Hillsdale County Railroad train. Note the two >box cars immediately behind the locomotive: > >http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Railroads/Other/HillsdaleCountyRR.htm > >Ken Bush > _________________________________________________________________ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <18422-40299CF9-6977_@_storefull-3314.bay.webtv.net> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:09:45 -0500 (EST) From: Fish_76_@_webtv.net (Joseph D. Fisher) Subject: (erielack) Davis Formula Help. Ok listfolks, though its not directly related to the Erie Lackawanna, it is related to the calculation of drawbar force needed to move a certain train, of a certain weight, at a certain speed. Apparently however, my advanced mathematics are rusty, so I need someone's help whose really proficient with this stuff. Any volunteers? Please contact me offlist. Joseph D. Fisher ELHS #3320 Generation X now has a voice http://www.conservativepunk.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040211040959.BYCQ17235.out011.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:09:36 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: FW: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes > -----Original Message----- > From: Schuyler Larrabee [mailto:vze7zm0q_@_verizon.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 10:59 PM > To: 'Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)' > Subject: RE: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes > > Now, do you mean glossy like a Kar-line car? No > > Glossy like a L-L E8? Fine. > > Glossy on a freight car? Please. No. > > Glossy on passenger equipment, well, some. > > Really, I think that equipment that was likely to be > maintained, cleaned, should have some higher sheen to it than > flat. But not Kar-line car glossy, that just looks stupid. > And while I believe that the colors don't need to be "scaled > down" as some do (IOW, I would and do use full bore colors > which match the prototype) I think that glossiness does need > to be scaled down. Full-bore glossy on a model looks > toylike. The prototypes were only Kar-line glossy when wet. > > I thought the Athearn F's were just right in the glossy department. > > SGL > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Tupaczewski, > > Paul R (Paul) > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:42 AM > > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > > Subject: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes > > Importance: High > > > > Hello all, > > > > I've been having a little discussion off-line with another list > > member regarding factory paint jobs, and I wanted to ask > all the list > > members their thoughts on this... > > > > Here's my poll question (please reply directly to either > > paultup_@_optonline.net or paultup@lucent.com with your response) > > > > * When purchasing a pre-painted factory model, do you prefer: > > > > - a GLOSSY paint job? (highly reflective and shiny) > > - a FLAT or MATTE paint job? (a dull tone) > > > > Thanks! > > > > - Paul > > > > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > > Lucent Technologies > > Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 > > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > > Performance Test Team > > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > > Whippany, NJ 07981 > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1190 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <200402111119.i1BBJma15752_@_web6.systems.townnews.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 05:19:48 -0600 From: DChristang_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) E-mail-A-Friend: Crossing gates exist for good reason, rail officials remind motorists in wake of fatal crash in Rochester area Crossing gates exist for good reason, rail officials remind motorists in wake of fatal crash in Rochester area The tragic deaths of an elderly Rochester-area couple at a CSX rail crossing in Henrietta last week has thrust the issue of grade crossing safety into the public eye. The barriers and flashing lights that protect crossings are important devices in preventing larger numbers of fatal accidents, but allegations of slow response by CSX to crossings there begs the question of how Norfolk Southern maintains its crossings in the Southern Tier. For more of this story, click on or type the URL below: http://www.eveningtribune.com/articles/2004/02/10/news/news01.txt ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4062_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:36:40 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) Clarification on "Glossy/semi-gloss/flat" finish poll Hi folks, Let me just clarify what I was specifically looking for: The finish on a FREIGHT DIESEL (you can also give me your opinionss on PASSENGER DIESELS) To clarify definitions: "Glossy" means shiny - think of the finish on the Athearn Genesis F-units "Semi-gloss" means slightly shiny - think of the finish of the recent Atlas freight diesels (including the DL&W H16-44 - yes, that one IS semi-gloss, not flat) "Flat" means no shine at all, almost having the appearance of being slightly "dusty" Thanks! I will tally up the results of this very unscientific poll and post them to the list this weekend. - Paul Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ Lucent Technologies Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 Performance Test Team 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: References: <200402111032.i1BAW1xK002298_@_net.bluemoon.net> In-Reply-To: <200402111032.i1BAW1xK002298_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:45:24 -0500 From: Carl Gustafson Subject: (erielack) Re: EL List Daily V3 #1190 > * When purchasing a pre-painted factory model, do you prefer: > > - a GLOSSY paint job? (highly reflective and shiny) > - a FLAT or MATTE paint job? (a dull tone) Depends on what's planned for the model. If you're gonna put reweigh and repack stickers on 'em, glossy is preferable. If they're gonna be weathered, especially heavily, flat is desirable. If they're just delivered from the factory to the home road, or just out of the paint shop, a semi-gloss is best. Carl "An answer for everyone" Gustafson ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:38:48 EST From: Jjbchian_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Help Wanted In a message dated 2/5/2004 6:06:46 PM Mountain Standard Time, thollritt_@_yahoo.com writes: > "Erie man working in Cleveland".... and you thought YOU had a rough day! > > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-g9160alb.jpg > > You could have a caption contest with this one, like "Hurry up Joe.... > another ones about to dock!" > > Todd Listers: This is really a very neat photo. Check out the wood sided gon the guy is standing it. Three arch bar trucks under it? Also note the original Erie emblem. Just a black ball with Erie lettering in it. Before the diamond was added. JJBoehner ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040210211448.01b13570_@_64.136.20.167> References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:16:24 -0500 From: Ken Subject: RE: (erielack) Hillsdale County Railroad Michael, Your eyesight is better than mine! The third car looks like a grey boxcar with no lettering to me. Hope that you're right. Ken B. At 07:57 PM 2/10/2004, Michael Dye wrote: >Wouldn't that be THREE of the first four cars? > >Michael Dye ELHS #1516 > > >>From: Ken >> >>The link is to a photo of a Hillsdale County Railroad train. Note the >>two box cars immediately behind the locomotive: >> >>http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Railroads/Other/HillsdaleCountyRR.htm >> >>Ken Bush > >_________________________________________________________________ >Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE407F_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:59:35 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) FW: "Steam To Diesel In NJ" book Folks, Got this E-mail from a friend of mine who worked with Arcadia Publishing to address the multitude of errors on the book "Steam to Diesel In New Jersey" that was discussed on this list. Buyer beware! - Paul - --------------------------------------- Paul, I stopped at Barnes & Noble here in Springfield at lunchtime...I noticed in the Local section, where the Arcadia books are that "Steam To Diesel In New Jersey - Revised Edition" was on the bookshelf. I took a bit of time and glanced through it. Here we are, over a year later, with God knows how much work done by you, me, Arcadia and the author to get it right, and it's still a mess. The major mistakes have been corrected, but, nothing new to enhance the book. Nothing to tell the reader that the Pennsy K4 pictured (No. 1361) still survives and why it's important, for instance. I gave them correct spellings of town names, but, for example, Millburn still appears as Millborn. Lots of other things that will annoy a reader who is familiar with railroads in general and New Jersey in particular. The book was delayed several times over the course of the year...it was scheduled to be available in February 2003, then June, then July, then September, then November, December, then finally February 2004. Apparently the author kept stalling or something, and I guess someone finally put their foot down...so now it's out again, after all those delays. The book still sucks. Thought you'd want to know. Take care, ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <9f.438c6f5f.2d5be1b8_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:51:20 EST From: WSmith5957_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" I first heard the term when the RRs got rid of the steam engine but kept 2 men in the engine cab, calling one of them a 'fireman' even tho there was no longer any coal to shovel on a deisel engine. The unions fought to keep the job which really was more like an apprentice engineer & should have been so called. By keeping the term 'fireman', the unions let themselves open to charges of being paid for not performing any work or 'featherbedding'.....like sleeping in a featherbed when you were being paid to work. The smear worked very well at the time. If they had used the term 'apprentice engineer', it would have been harder for the railroad companies to get rid of the job. There's a lot more than just running the locomotive in an engineers job & the best way is to be an apprentice. That's how I learned it. Why do you think the airlines have 2 men in the cockpit?????? Nobody shovels coal there, yet nobody queations the need for the senior man to teach the junior man such a responsible job. (There have been rumbles from the airlines about the possibility of 'getting by' with a 1 man cockpit crew. Would u like to fly the Atlantic with one man handling everything up there???) Whoever came up with this propaganda tidbit should have been given a huge award by the industry...they've saved the RRs a bundle. Made it a lot more unsafe, but what the H---. Regards, Walter E. Smith ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040211194446.86457.qmail_@_web41101.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE407F_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:44:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: Re: (erielack) FW: "Steam To Diesel In NJ" book I bought it a few weeks ago at the Canal Society gift shop in Easton. It has a many good photos, but most of us know more than is given in the book, such as why PRR 1361 is important. Probably the worst single remaining error is the photo of a train leaving Broad Street, Newark, on the DLW and mentioning that the overhead wire powered the Pennsy's GG-I's!!! Even after changing to AC, the G's still couldn't run there under their own power. At leasat two HAVE been through Broad St, but in tow... - --- "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" wrote: > Got this E-mail from a friend of mine who worked with Arcadia Publishing > to address the multitude of errors on the book "Steam to Diesel In New > Jersey" that was discussed on this list. Buyer beware! > > - Paul > --------------------------------------- > Paul, ... > The book was delayed several times over the course of the year...it was > scheduled to be available in February 2003, then June, then July, then > September, then November, December, then finally February 2004. > Apparently the author kept stalling or something, and I guess someone > finally put their foot down...so now it's out again, after all those > delays. ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040211202553.38449.qmail_@_web41105.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <9f.438c6f5f.2d5be1b8_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:25:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: Re: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" - --- WSmith5957_@_aol.com wrote: > Why do you think the airlines have 2 men in the cockpit?????? Not that long ago, there were three. ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001b01c3f121$2dc97ca0$3bd04b0c_@_pavilion> References: <200402111032.i1BAW1xK002298_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:22:34 -0800 From: "Blake D. Tatar" Subject: (erielack) Re: Model poll: Paint schemes Bill, you are absolutely right. A satin finish translates much better in a model than gloss does. In actuality, the smaller the scale, the flatter the finish should be. At arms length away from you, a model is a scale distance away from you (there is a formula to figure this out but it escapes me). At a greater distance between you and the object you are looking at, the more air you have to "look through" to see that object. Air does have optical qualities that are undetectable at close range. Move out a bit further and you will see it. That is why distant mountains appear to be lighter in color than closer ones. This also dulls down the sheen of an object. If you see Morristown and Erie locos in HO scale and they are done in high gloss, they will look very toy-like. After decaling and before weathering, I always overspray a satin finish. This gives you that slight gloss that you can see even on a dirty piece of equipment. Most companies don't use a clearcoat over their models (at least that I can see). Most of them look fine as far as sheen is concerned but if you don't like it, you can do a clearcoat of your choice anyway. And, I always clearcoat the windows. Dulls them down a bit, it's that gloss thing again. I think Jim Harr will agree with me as we recently spoke about this very subject. My vote is for satin finish. I think Paul wanted us to vote on this with one of his links though. Blake D. Tatar Custom painting, repairs and modifications of model railroad equipment. Brass a Specialty. E-mail : BDTatar_@_worldnet.att.net Website @ : www.BlakeDTatar.com All mail is scanned by Norton Internet Security prior to sending! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008101c3f109$e54e4ee0$0201a8c0_@_DFLXW121> References: Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:40:23 -0500 From: "Jon Scaptura" Subject: Re: (erielack) Help Wanted - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:38 AM Subject: Re: (erielack) Help Wanted | Listers: | | This is really a very neat photo. Check out the wood sided gon the guy is | standing it. Three arch bar trucks under it? Also note the original Erie | emblem. Just a black ball with Erie lettering in it. Before the diamond was added. | | JJBoehner | | It looks to me like there is an outline of a diamond there if you look real close. The diagonals on the left side of the black ball look like part of the diamond. Jon Scaptura Endicott, NY Member: MTHRRC / LRRC Homepage: http://www.scaptura.com E-Mail: railfan_@_spamcop.net ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <177.25797e1f.2d5c3be9_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:16:09 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) MODEL PAINTING QUESTION. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE A PROPONENT OF GLOSS PAINT ON DIESELS. WHY? HOW ABOUT BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY EVERY DIESEL EVER PAINTED WAS PAINTED! EVERY DIESEL ON EVERY ROAD EVENTUALLY BECAME DIRTY TO SOME EXTENT. SOME ROADS KEPT THERE DIESELS CLEANER THAN OTHERS. I WOULD PREJUDICIOUSLY TEND TO THINK THE LACKAWANNA WAS ON THE CLEANER END OF THE SPECTRUM. IF YOUR TRYING TO SIMULATE WHAT THEY WOULD LOOK LIKE AFTER A COUPLE OF YEARS, OR BEFORE A WASHING, THEN IT'S NOT FLAT PAINT OR EVEN SEMI FLAT PAINT YOUR LOOKING FOR, BUT DIRT. BROWNISH, YELLOWISH, GRAYISH, DIRT! IF ITS AUTHENTIC WEATHERING YOUR LOOKING FOR, TRY THIS. DIG YOURSELF A GOOD SHALLOW HOLE WHERE THERE IS SOME GOOD YELLOW DIRT, NOT TOP SOIL, REMOVE YOUR SHELL, AND ON YOUR FREIGHT CARS ONLY THE WHEELS. PLANT ON TOP OF THE SOIL AROUND SEPTEMBER 1, AND HARVEST THE FOLLOWING YEAR ON THE FIRST SUNNY DAY AFTER MAY 25. A SMALL CLEAN STIFF PAINT BRUSH SPARINGLY APPLYED WILL AMPLIFY YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. THE SUN IS THE ONLY ELEMENT THAT WILL FADE GLOSS PAINT, BUT WE ARE TALKING OVER YEARS OF TIME. DON'T ASK THE MODEL MAKERS TO GET RID OF THERE GLOSS PAINT, JUST TO SAVE ON A WEATHERING PROJECT FOR THOSE SO INCLINED. ITS A LOT EASIER TO DULL DOWN GLOSS PAINT, THAN TO GLOSS UP SOME NON GLOSS, AND BE AUTHENTIC LOOKING. BOB BAHRS ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040212031629.OZDM17235.out011.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040210211448.01b13570_@_64.136.20.167> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:16:03 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Hillsdale County Railroad Ken, look just a >>little<< further into the train . . . 8^) SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Ken > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 9:16 PM > To: Michael Dye; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: RE: (erielack) Hillsdale County Railroad > > Michael, > Your eyesight is better than mine! The third car looks like > a grey boxcar with no lettering to me. Hope that you're right. > > > Ken B. > > At 07:57 PM 2/10/2004, Michael Dye wrote: > >Wouldn't that be THREE of the first four cars? > > > >Michael Dye ELHS #1516 > > > > > >>From: Ken > >> > >>The link is to a photo of a Hillsdale County Railroad > train. Note the > >>two box cars immediately behind the locomotive: > >> > >>http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Railroads/ Other/Hillsd > aleCountyRR.htm > >> > >>Ken Bush > > > >_________________________________________________ ________________ > >Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. > >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp ?cid=3963 > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040212031500.QNOF2677.out005.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:14:34 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Help Wanted John, the three-truck car's been discussed on here before. This view is half of a stereo photo, which show up on eBay occasionally. The stereo really works very well, pops right up into 3D amazingly well. There IS a diamond around that black ball. Look carefully right above and to the left of the ball, and you will see diagonal shapes that are the top and left points of the diamond. It shows up better in some copies of this photo than others. SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of > Jjbchian_@_aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:39 AM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Help Wanted > > In a message dated 2/5/2004 6:06:46 PM Mountain Standard > Time, thollritt_@_yahoo.com writes: > > > > "Erie man working in Cleveland".... and you thought YOU had > a rough day! > > > > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-g9160alb .jpg > > > > You could have a caption contest with this one, like "Hurry > up Joe.... > > another ones about to dock!" > > > > Todd > > > Listers: > > This is really a very neat photo. Check out the wood sided > gon the guy is > standing it. Three arch bar trucks under it? Also note the > original Erie > emblem. Just a black ball with Erie lettering in it. Before > the diamond was added. > > JJBoehner > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040212033348.SGKP10003.out008.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <20040211202553.38449.qmail_@_web41105.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:33:22 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" > --- WSmith5957_@_aol.com wrote: > > Why do you think the airlines have 2 men in the cockpit?????? > Gary R. Kazin added: > Not that long ago, there were three. But now, many of the transatlantic flights (and domestic, for that matter) are "flown" by computers which are programmed from gate to gate. The pilots are there in case something goes awry, like unanticipated weather. Still need two? SGL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040212032752.QRAI2677.out005.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE407F_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:27:26 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) FW: "Steam To Diesel In NJ" book As we all probably know, the quality of the Arcadia books varies all over the place, but my experience is that the rail-oriented variety especially need a look-over BEFORE spending the $20.00. There are two on B&M steam engines that aren't worth the space on the shelf. FWIW, there are two on Building Route 128, and Building the Mass Pike, which are very good. The Mass Pike one has a substantial number of Boston & Albany photos in it, since the Pike extension from 128 to downtown was built next to and somewhat on top of it. Yeah, I know: Not EL, but it IS trains. SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of > Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul) > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:00 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: (erielack) FW: "Steam To Diesel In NJ" book > > Folks, > > Got this E-mail from a friend of mine who worked with Arcadia > Publishing to address the multitude of errors on the book > "Steam to Diesel In New Jersey" that was discussed on this > list. Buyer beware! > > - Paul > > --------------------------------------- > > Paul, > > I stopped at Barnes & Noble here in Springfield at > lunchtime...I noticed in the Local section, where the Arcadia > books are that "Steam To Diesel In New Jersey - Revised > Edition" was on the bookshelf. > > I took a bit of time and glanced through it. Here we are, > over a year later, with God knows how much work done by you, > me, Arcadia and the author to get it right, and it's still a > mess. The major mistakes have been corrected, but, nothing > new to enhance the book. Nothing to tell the reader that the > Pennsy K4 pictured (No. 1361) still survives and why it's > important, for instance. I gave them correct spellings of > town names, but, for example, Millburn still appears as > Millborn. Lots of other things that will annoy a reader who > is familiar with railroads in general and New Jersey in particular. > > The book was delayed several times over the course of the > year...it was scheduled to be available in February 2003, > then June, then July, then September, then November, > December, then finally February 2004. Apparently the author > kept stalling or something, and I guess someone finally put > their foot down...so now it's out again, after all those delays. > > The book still sucks. > > Thought you'd want to know. Take care, > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <402AF5EA.13A1236B_@_twcny.rr.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:41:30 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes When suggested the semi gloss option would be akin to the finish on the H16-44's I had to retract my vote cast for a semi gloss finish and change it to gloss. Not high gloss, but glossy. There is a great degree of latitude and personal opinion as to what any given term means. The extremes are the easiest to agree on, it's the middle ground that becomes difficult. My opinion of the H16-44 finish is that it might be a fine, eggshell finish to decal but it is not a presentable representation for a real DL&W in service H16-44. Even when they did have dirt and grime on the glossiness still showed through. The same hold true to the H24-66's to a degree. remember these units were not only used in freight service, but except for 860 and 861, their day job was as a passenger engine during the week. They saw the wash racks with reasonable frequency. Since the terminology seems to be the biggest sticking point, I'll use the definition medium gloss to more accurately express my vote. Now about glossiness, time, distance, curvature of the earth etc., Yes all of these things do come into play. The particulate content of the air, the humidity and those water droplet's ability to bend light, the eye's ability to focus, bright sun, high clouds, low clouds, all effect what the mind perceives. All that being said, why penalize everyone right out of the box? The days of operating a layout from a single location is for most of us gone. We follow our trains at much closer distances now. So once when the train was half way across the room and you couldn't really tell if the engine looked shiny, satiny or flat except for the reflection of the valance lighting are gone for those of use that have or are building layouts where we are following the trains at close distance. Now I can see the finish on my locomotives, cars, structures, etc., much more intimately and I will notice if it doesn't look correct because I'm not stuck back in the far corner tied to a power back anymore. Will ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1191 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:16:41 -0500 From: "James Harr" Subject: (erielack) Re: Model poll: Paint schemes Blake and list; Actually, I have to disagree with you here, Blake, I don't clearcoat windows. I like the glass to be clean! I can't stand getting on a train with dirty windows, spoils the view! What this all boils down to for me is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, whatever you're happy with go with it. Because the fact seems to be, if you really want the finish that YOU want, you're going to have to paint it YOURSELF. Model manufacturers will never make EVERYONE happy. And I can't imagine they're holding a gun to your head to FORCE you to buy their "inferior" product. OOPS, sorry to SHOUT! Jim Harr And, I always clearcoat the windows. Dulls them down a bit, it's that gloss thing again. I think Jim Harr will agree with me as we recently spoke about this very subject. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000301c3f185$daab2720$6cf54b0c_@_pavilion> References: <200402121032.i1CAW1uK035914_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:32:45 -0800 From: "Blake D. Tatar" Subject: (erielack) Re: EL List Daily V3 #1191 Again Will, I agree with you on the H-16-44. That finish is a bit flatter than I would want. Good point about following our trains much closer now. That is the way most people go about building a railroad, myself included. I think the whole problem here is that we all don't have Pantone color books to agree on what is what. In Federal Standard 595, the first number is the gloss factor. 3 is flat, 2 is satin (aka semi-gloss) and 1 is high gloss. When you see the standards (3 X 5 cards with paint on one side and info on the other) it all becomes clear (pun intended). There is gloss (like the dust jacket on a Morning Sun book) and flat (like that of a plain white envelope) and semi-gloss is a 50 : 50 mixture of the two. If that was the standard, I would go with semi-gloss and let the weathering dull it down. Blake D. Tatar Custom painting, repairs and modifications of model railroad equipment. Brass a Specialty. E-mail : BDTatar_@_worldnet.att.net Website @ : www.BlakeDTatar.com All mail is scanned by Norton Internet Security prior to sending! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040212084819.01af5f90_@_64.136.28.166> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:58:04 -0500 From: Ken Subject: (erielack) Hillsdale County Railroad Okay, okay--I see it on my 15" monitor, using Opera and increasing the magnification. The fourth car is E-L also. Now, is there any reason why so many E-L cars would end up in Hillsdale County, Michigan? Ken B. At 10:16 PM 2/11/2004, Schuyler Larrabee wrote: >Ken, look just a >>little<< further into the train >. . . 8^) > >SGL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:38:31 -0500 From: "Tom Schmieder" Subject: RE: (erielack) FW: "Steam To Diesel In NJ" book I picked up a copy of this book at West Springfield. Yes, the mistakes are apparent as well as the author's apparent lack of expertise when it comes to DL&W information as well as a lack of general railroad expertise. However, there are quite a few good pictures of the DL&W in there that I haven't seen, so I think it's worth it. Tom Schmieder >From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" >Reply-To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" >To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net >Subject: (erielack) FW: "Steam To Diesel In NJ" book >Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:59:35 -0500 > >Folks, > >Got this E-mail from a friend of mine who worked with Arcadia Publishing to >address the multitude of errors on the book "Steam to Diesel In New Jersey" >that was discussed on this list. Buyer beware! > > - Paul > >--------------------------------------- > >Paul, > >I stopped at Barnes & Noble here in Springfield at lunchtime...I noticed in >the Local section, where the Arcadia books are that "Steam To Diesel In New >Jersey - Revised Edition" was on the bookshelf. > >I took a bit of time and glanced through it. Here we are, over a year >later, with God knows how much work done by you, me, Arcadia and the author >to get it right, and it's still a mess. The major mistakes have been >corrected, but, nothing new to enhance the book. Nothing to tell the >reader that the Pennsy K4 pictured (No. 1361) still survives and why it's >important, for instance. I gave them correct spellings of town names, but, > for example, Millburn still appears as Millborn. Lots of other things >that will annoy a reader who is familiar with railroads in general and New >Jersey in particular. > >The book was delayed several times over the course of the year...it was >scheduled to be available in February 2003, then June, then July, then >September, then November, December, then finally February 2004. Apparently >the author kept stalling or something, and I guess someone finally put >their foot down...so now it's out again, after all those delays. > >The book still sucks. > >Thought you'd want to know. Take care, _________________________________________________________________ Check out the great features of the new MSN 9 Dial-up, with the MSN Dial-up Accelerator. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1076596984.402b90f81ed97_@_webmail.dnaco.net> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:43:04 -0500 From: George Elwood Subject: (erielack) Help Wanted Having been in engine service on the EL and a pilot in the Air Force I feel as though I should add a comment or two. I know this will cause some people to be upset because they want to see a lot of trains all the time. Normally I read and not respond. While working on the EL as a fireman/engineer apprentice, I did run a lot. The position was a learning slot, for those who wanted to learn. For others, it was a way to get a pay check without doing much. The older locomotives with high hoods on both ends (RS-3/GP7/9) made the position a requirement during switching operations. (We didn’t have radios at the time) On the road, the head end brakeman could have filled the position. I thorough enjoyed running engines so I ended up at the throttle more than the engineer while working in the yard. Even on the Meadville run I took the opportunity to learn and had the chance to operate the train over the road. Today, engine service people are trained in simulators like aircrews. The students are exposed to many conditions that can not be safety demonstrated on the road. Use of the locomotive controls and failures can be shown with the results of incorrect response shown. A student will encounter more problems in a simulator session than can be experienced on the road in several years. Look at the capabilities of the MS Train Simulator program. This program provides the users with results of bad decisions (derailments). As an instructor pilot and simulator instructor in the C-130, I could place students in stressful conditions to see how the crew would respond. Many of these conditions would be dangerous or difficult to induce on an actual flight although I have flown missions in Vietnam that were like simulator missions. In today’s environment with no caboose, the conductor sits in the cab with the engineer to provide added safety. On most railroads, the conductor position is a step toward the engineer position. Unless enroute switching is necessary, the two positions in the cab are all that are required. Amtrak uses only one person in the cab on most runs. The engineer is required to call all signals via radio and the alerter will stop the train if the required interaction is not completed. Three months after leaving the EL I started in Air Force pilot training. A year later I received my Wings and proceed on to C-130 training. This is a large aircraft and had a crew of five. Because the C-130 was an older technology, we needed the entire crew to flying the missions. We had the two pilots, a navigator, flight engineer and loadmaster. While it was possible to fly with a smaller crew, during times of high activities like airdrops or operations into hostile areas, everybody was needed. The new C-130s now require a crew of three. The navigator and flight engineer positions have been deleted. This requires the remaining crew members to complete the requirements of the mission. The new technologies like GPS and CRT displays assist the crew in completing their mission. Nothing like flying to Wake Island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean with an inoperative navigation system. On the commercial side of aircraft operation, early aircraft also had large flight crews. They flight engineers up through 727s and 747s. Some of the last piston engine aircraft also had flight engineers. With the improvement in equipment, new commercial aircraft have a crew of two. While the flight crew has computers to assist in the operation, they still manually handle the aircraft from departure from the gate to sometime during the climb out after take off. While it is possible to have the computer fly the approach, the pilots still must complete the landing and taxi to the gate. The crew is also there to watch over the safety of the flight and to handle any emergency conditions that are encountered. The new locomotives also have CRTs that provide a large amount of information on the locomotive and train. The computers on the locomotive can provide inputs to assist in the engineer getting over the road in a safety and efficient manner. On some industrial railroads, the entire trip is handled by a computer. As an example, the ME, an electric line owned and operated by Ohio Power in SE Ohio had no crew and this line started operating in the 60s. Computers control some subway and light rail systems. The railroads are now installing and using remote controlled engines for use in yards. This permits the engineer to operate from the ground and assist the other ground crew in switching. The railroads must become efficient in order to compete. While I realize that everybody would like to see caboose, interlocking towers, full crews, and lots of trains, this is not going to happen. Railroads must be able to compete with trucks in order to survive and reduced crew size is one way. The box car is going away. As more companies move away from rail lines, intermodal containers are becoming the norm. Rail is efficient in moving large bulky materials, coal, grain, auto parts, etc. The LCL loads of the past do not fit into the mold that is emerging for the rail system. UPS and FedEx is more efficient in handling this traffic. Commuter rail has a part to play. It is less costly to build and maintain a commuter rail system where the population density will support its operation than highways. These systems are located around the major cities which support their operation. The high speed lines on the NE compete with the airlines with downtown-to-downtown times and cost basically the same. Does Amtrak have a future in long distant travel? There will always be a few people who would like to take a train as part of a vacation experience. However, these trains seldom run full everyday of the year. The fixed cost remains the same if there are 12 people or 300 people on the train. Amtrak is making progress on improving service. If they can provide consistent service at a fair value, people will continue to use the system. Amtrak does have a problem in that they must use the tracks of freight railroad who don’t care about scheduled operations. This issue must be addressed before consistent service can be established. - -- George Elwood gelwood_@_dnaco.net http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood http://www.rr-fallenflags.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:45:37 -0500 From: "Tom Schmieder" Subject: RE: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes If we're talking about Atlas' upcoming offering of the H24-66 Trainmasters, please make mine GLOSS. In MOST of the photos you see of these engines in service, they look clean and shiny. It's very easy to dull them down if you like, but it never looks right when you try to shine them up with Glosscote. It kind of gives a hazy shiny clear coat to the finish and adds tremendous thichness to it, further abscuring the details. Tom Schmieder >From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" >Reply-To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" >To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net >Subject: (erielack) Model poll: Paint schemes >Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:41:33 -0500 > >Hello all, > > I've been having a little discussion off-line with another list member >regarding factory paint jobs, and I wanted to ask all the list members >their thoughts on this... > > Here's my poll question (please reply directly to either >paultup_@_optonline.net or paultup@lucent.com with your response) > > * When purchasing a pre-painted factory model, do you prefer: > > - a GLOSSY paint job? (highly reflective and shiny) > - a FLAT or MATTE paint job? (a dull tone) > >Thanks! > > - Paul > > >Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ >Lucent Technologies >Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 >MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 >Performance Test Team >67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 >Whippany, NJ 07981 >_______________________________________________ > > > _________________________________________________________________ Choose now from 4 levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - no more account overload! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1cb.1973c96a.2d5cf3b6_@_aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:20:22 EST From: VSX9000_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers Anyone know if the DL&W leased steel reefers were in use on the E-L ? Thanks, Lou ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:11:32 -0500 From: "Tom Schmieder" Subject: RE: (erielack) Trainmasters And speaking of Trainmasters, I spoke with the representatives at Atlas about the upcoming offered models. There are some models offered without decoder or sound that are DCC ready (Silver series) and then there are models that have DCC and sound (Gold Series): See their website, http://atlasrr.com/ Master Series Silver (Without Decoder and Sound) [DCC Ready] #7805 - DL&W 854 #7806 - DL&W 858 #7807 - DL&W no # Master Series Gold (With Decoder & Sound) #7705 - DL&W 850 #7706 - DL&W 859 No Unnumbered version offered For the difference in price, Master Series Silver: $139.95 and Master Series Gold: $249.95, I plan on purchasing the Gold series. By the time you purchase a Soundtraxx decoder and then spend the time and effort to figure out how to retro-fit it into the model, I think that it is worth the $110 difference. I noticed that the unnumbered model is only offered without sound or decoder. The only problem is that I want to get at least 6 of these things with sound. I don't want to have to scrape off the numbers (especially off the numberboards!!!) and then reapply decals. The numberboards are obviously the part that would be most difficult to do well since they're lit. The representative at Atlas said that they usually don't sell many unnumbered units, so that's why they're not offering it in the Gold Series. He did, however, say that if there is a demand, they'll do it. So here we go. If you can find a use for more than two numbered units on your pike, and would like to be able to purchase unnumbered units with decoder and sound, then email Atlas HO product development right away with your request. hoscale_@_atlasrr.com Please act quickly as I'm sure they're getting ready to place the final order to the manufacturer. Oh, if you have access to other groups on the web that may be interested in this, please feel free to forward this to them. Thanks for your attention in this very important matter. Tom Schmieder **Eagerly awaiting the arrival of the GLOSSY Trainmasters with Sound _________________________________________________________________ Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE409F_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:31:59 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) FW: FOAM ALERT!!! From a friend of mine - if anyone wants to get shots of an EL SD45-2 on the road today! - Paul From: nhlives_@_b... Date: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:20 am Subject: Heads up on da River Currently getting their train togeather in Oak Island is the: Q-402 (OISE) with: CSXT BF (ex chessie) sd-40-2 8100 BNSF Pumpkin sd-40-2 6823 CSXT SD-70-MAC 748 CSXT xxxx ge widecab CSXT (EX ERIE LACAWANA) SD-45-2 WHALE-BELLY #8886 +114 cars Also poking around Oak Island, see the: NS SW-1001 #2103 (Ex CR) in new FRESH NS horse head paint PRR (CRQ) gp-15-1 1425 CSXT (CRQ) C-40-8W #7326 - --JSW ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <157240-220042412174516604_@_M2W045.mail2web.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:45:16 -0500 From: "tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com" Subject: RE: (erielack) Hillsdale County Railroad And, while we're asking questions, how old is that photo?? I haven't seen an EL boxcar in service in at least 10 years. TAB Original Message: - ----------------- From: Ken erie910_@_netzero.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:58:04 -0500 To: vze7zm0q_@_verizon.net, luxpan@hotmail.com, erielack@lists.railfan.net Subject: (erielack) Hillsdale County Railroad Okay, okay--I see it on my 15" monitor, using Opera and increasing the magnification. The fourth car is E-L also. Now, is there any reason why so many E-L cars would end up in Hillsdale County, Michigan? Ken B. At 10:16 PM 2/11/2004, Schuyler Larrabee wrote: >Ken, look just a >>little<< further into the train >. . . 8^) > >SGL - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <002101c3f17e$fd2f1380$660c4b43_@_4sxh40b> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:43:37 -0500 From: "Steven Mcdonough" Subject: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR Hi folks. I have been trying to find the title of a song my uncle used to sing when I was a kid. I can't find anything on the internet, but I thought that given your speciality, you guys might know something about this. The song's lyrics are like this: Where do you work-a John? "I work-a the Erie Lackawann" Whaddya do-a John? "I push-a-push-a-push" Whaddya push-a John? "I push-a-push-a truck" Where do you push-a truck? "On the Erie Lackawann-a-wann, on the Erie Lackawann" I know this isn't a song he made up, since I worked with a man years ago that also knew this song. If anyone recognizes this song, I'd be grateful if they could drop me an e-mail. Thank you. Steve McDonough ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40A1_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:05:11 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL boxcars (was: Hillsdale County Railroad) Tom Beckett asked: > And, while we're asking questions, how old is that photo?? I > haven't seen an EL boxcar in service in at least 10 years. I would guess mid-to-late 1970s. Up until a few years ago, there appeared to be a somewhat "captive" fleet of 3 or 4 of the EL's "Canstock-style" offset plug door boxcars (69250-series, as in this car: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el69257bd.jpg) that would often appear in Ridgefield, NJ. These cars had sorry paint jobs (EL reporting marks were all restenciled, if memory serve me), but they were "true" EL cars. The 40' cars went out pretty quickly after CR, though a few of them still linger around in deadlines and on shortlines. The 50' cars were repainted pretty quickly into CR. Some still roam CSX and NS. - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003301c3f195$d802f740$ae4856d1_@_y6p6m1> References: <1cb.1973c96a.2d5cf3b6_@_aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:27:14 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers Interestingly there is a Lackawanna Refer at Steamtown in primer gray, for the past 6-7 years. Regards David MV - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:20 AM Subject: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers > Anyone know if the DL&W leased steel reefers were in use on the E-L ? > > > > Thanks, > > Lou > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40A3_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:28:39 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawa nna RR Actually, I thought the original was written by folks working on the Lackawanna (the DL&W had a large number of Italian immigrants who worked for it, including my wife's grandfather). I seem to remember the second line went "I work-a on the Delaware Lackawann" - I never knew it was revised for the EL merger! I don't think there was ever a title for the song, it was just a "traditional" section gang tune... - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Mcdonough [mailto:velo54_@_earthlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:44 AM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: (erielack) Question about a song title about the > Erie Lackawanna RR > > > Hi folks. > > I have been trying to find the title of a song my uncle used > to sing when I was a kid. I can't find anything on the > internet, but I thought that given your speciality, you guys > might know something about this. > > The song's lyrics are like this: > > Where do you work-a John? > "I work-a the Erie Lackawann" > Whaddya do-a John? > "I push-a-push-a-push" > Whaddya push-a John? > "I push-a-push-a truck" > Where do you push-a truck? > "On the Erie Lackawann-a-wann, > on the Erie Lackawann" > > I know this isn't a song he made up, since I worked with a > man years ago that also knew this song. > > If anyone recognizes this song, I'd be grateful if they could > drop me an e-mail. > > Thank you. > > Steve McDonough > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000e01c3f198$e5797090$0200a8c0_@_none> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40A3_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:49:07 -0600 From: "Bill Weibel" Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR I heard it sung in the early fifties with "On the Delaware Lackawann" instead they must have revised the lyrics post merger.. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" To: "'Steven Mcdonough'" ; Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: RE: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR > Actually, I thought the original was written by folks working on the Lackawanna (the DL&W had a large number of Italian immigrants who worked for it, including my wife's grandfather). I seem to remember the second line went "I work-a on the Delaware Lackawann" - I never knew it was revised for the EL merger! > > I don't think there was ever a title for the song, it was just a "traditional" section gang tune... > > - Paul > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven Mcdonough [mailto:velo54_@_earthlink.net] > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:44 AM > > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > > Subject: (erielack) Question about a song title about the > > Erie Lackawanna RR > > > > > > Hi folks. > > > > I have been trying to find the title of a song my uncle used > > to sing when I was a kid. I can't find anything on the > > internet, but I thought that given your speciality, you guys > > might know something about this. > > > > The song's lyrics are like this: > > > > Where do you work-a John? > > "I work-a the Erie Lackawann" > > Whaddya do-a John? > > "I push-a-push-a-push" > > Whaddya push-a John? > > "I push-a-push-a truck" > > Where do you push-a truck? > > "On the Erie Lackawann-a-wann, > > on the Erie Lackawann" > > > > I know this isn't a song he made up, since I worked with a > > man years ago that also knew this song. > > > > If anyone recognizes this song, I'd be grateful if they could > > drop me an e-mail. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Steve McDonough > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040212193549.9365.qmail_@_web40802.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <000e01c3f198$e5797090$0200a8c0_@_none> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:35:49 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Ogden Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR I have seen sheet music for this on ebay occasionally. I think the title was "Where do you Work?" It dates at least back to the 1920's. Somewhere buried in my basement is my father's collection of Mitch Miller sing along records from the 1960's. This song is on there and it was still sung as Delaware Lackawanna. While we are on the topic, I understand that there was once a Broadway play called "The Ballad of Phoebe Snow". Can anyone give details about this? Tim ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <402BD7E7.10227D3F_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40A3_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:45:43 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawa nnaRR Well considering i have a copy of the sheet music (the Lackawanna version that is), I'll have to disagree that it was simply a "traditional" tone. Problem one of Maxey's doings. I would dig out my copy except that is a more daunting task than I have time for just now. Sorry. Will "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" wrote: > > Actually, I thought the original was written by folks working on the Lackawanna (the DL&W had a large number of Italian immigrants who worked for it, including my wife's grandfather). I seem to remember the second line went "I work-a on the Delaware Lackawann" - I never knew it was revised for the EL merger! > > I don't think there was ever a title for the song, it was just a "traditional" section gang tune... > > - Paul > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40A9_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:53:25 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawa nna RR Read the third paragraph here: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/freetodance/biographies/beatty.html Mr. Beatty is to credit for this Broadway production. - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Ogden [mailto:njmidland_@_sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 2:36 PM > To: Bill Weibel; Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul); 'Steven > Mcdonough'; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about a song title about the > Erie Lackawanna RR > > > I have seen sheet music for this on ebay occasionally. > I think the title was "Where do you Work?" It dates > at least back to the 1920's. Somewhere buried in my > basement is my father's collection of Mitch Miller > sing along records from the 1960's. This song is on > there and it was still sung as Delaware Lackawanna. > > While we are on the topic, I understand that there was > once a Broadway play called "The Ballad of Phoebe > Snow". Can anyone give details about this? > > Tim > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040212201330.28092.qmail_@_web41112.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040212193549.9365.qmail_@_web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:13:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR - --- Tim Ogden wrote: > While we are on the topic, I understand that there was > once a Broadway play called "The Ballad of Phoebe > Snow". Can anyone give details about this? We even discussed it last year! "Subject: (erielack) The Ballad of Phoebe Snow From: "TIMOTHY O. STUY" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:13:37 -0400 My understanding is that at one point that Phoebe Snow was so successful that it was made into a Broadway play (circa 1915). This is where "The Ballad of Phoebe Snow" came from. At one point in the last 20 years it w= as performed by the Alvin Ailey dance group." It was also covered and archived earlier, but the answer doesn't tell the whole story: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_325.html Who was Phoebe Snow? 25-Apr-1975 Dear Cecil: I once saw the Alvin Ailey dance group perform a piece entitled "The Ballad of Phoebe Snow." As I recall, the handbill listed this piece as having been created sometime in the 60s. Is this the same Phoebe Snow who had the hit song "Poetry Man"? What's the connection, if any? --Kent R., Chicago Cecil replies: You bet, Kent--Phoebe Snow is a pop singer, "a rolling stone gathers no moss" is a Mick Jagger-Keith Richards lyric, and Western Civilization dawned circa 1963. People nowadays have the historical awareness of squirrels. Phoebe Snow was the invention of the advertising department of the Delaware, Lackawanna, and Western Railroad, which has long since been merged into Conrail. She was created in 1900 by artist Penrhyn Stanlaus, and her name and garb--always white from heat to foot--were chosen to symbolize the cleanliness of DL&W trains, which burned "smokeless" anthracite coal instead of the soft bituminous coal used by most other roads at the time. The ad campaign--a very famous one--also employed actresses who appeared as Phoebe at special events and civic celebrations (a la Ronald McDonald), as well as jingles that eventually became so popular they were sung from the Broadway stage: Says Phoebe Snow about to go Upon a trip to Buffalo My gown stays white from morn 'til night Upon the road of anthracite. When the government prohibited the use of anthracite coal in steam locomotives during World War I, Phoebe was retired, but she reappeared in white military garb during World War II to dramatize the Lackawanna's contributions to the effort. In 1949 the DL&W inaugurated its first streamliner passenger run--Hoboken, N.J. to Buffalo, N.Y.--and the train was named the Phoebe Snow. After merger with the Erie railroad in 1960, Phoebe's run was extended to Chicago; she died of the disappearing railroad blues in 1966. - --CECIL ADAMS ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <2ED30DE5D008D94EB4BB8E6F9D8FC82802CC8E9C_@_msg01wyn.tru.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:56:24 -0500 From: "Palmer, Brian" Subject: RE: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawa nna RR When I was a young kid growing up in the early 60's we had a copy of this song on vinyl. It was definitely the pre merger Lackawanna version and I would play the record repeatedly just because it was about railroads and the Lackwanna. Oddly my two sisters grew to dislike what they referred to as the "stupid train song". The record was originally from my parents so my guess would have the record being from the 40's. At some point the record made it to the circular file along with the other vintage records. The recording was apparently popular with my fathers generation. In the early 60's my father would bring me to watch the westbound passenger train at Summit make it's stop and conduct it's head end business. I clearly recall one evening when the man from the post office was sitting on the mail cart waiting for the train and passing the time softly singing "Where do work a John?" Brian - -----Original Message----- From: Bill Weibel [mailto:weib3_@_centurytel.net] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:49 PM To: Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul); 'Steven Mcdonough'; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR I heard it sung in the early fifties with "On the Delaware Lackawann" instead they must have revised the lyrics post merger.. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" To: "'Steven Mcdonough'" ; Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: RE: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR > Actually, I thought the original was written by folks working on the Lackawanna (the DL&W had a large number of Italian immigrants who worked for it, including my wife's grandfather). I seem to remember the second line went "I work-a on the Delaware Lackawann" - I never knew it was revised for the EL merger! > > I don't think there was ever a title for the song, it was just a "traditional" section gang tune... > > - Paul > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven Mcdonough [mailto:velo54_@_earthlink.net] > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:44 AM > > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > > Subject: (erielack) Question about a song title about the > > Erie Lackawanna RR > > > > > > Hi folks. > > > > I have been trying to find the title of a song my uncle used > > to sing when I was a kid. I can't find anything on the > > internet, but I thought that given your speciality, you guys > > might know something about this. > > > > The song's lyrics are like this: > > > > Where do you work-a John? > > "I work-a the Erie Lackawann" > > Whaddya do-a John? > > "I push-a-push-a-push" > > Whaddya push-a John? > > "I push-a-push-a truck" > > Where do you push-a truck? > > "On the Erie Lackawann-a-wann, > > on the Erie Lackawann" > > > > I know this isn't a song he made up, since I worked with a > > man years ago that also knew this song. > > > > If anyone recognizes this song, I'd be grateful if they could > > drop me an e-mail. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Steve McDonough > > > ======================================================================== This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient (s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. To reply to our email administrator directly, send an email to EmailAdmin_@_toysrus.com. Toys "R" Us, Inc. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <200402122150.QAA01829_@_technet.tjhsst.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:50:12 -0500 From: "MONTGOMERY| ED" Subject: (erielack) SONG "WHERE DO YOU WORK-A JOHN" was indeed a song about Italian immigrants. My father, who was born in 1913 used to sing that when I was a little kid everytime we had to pick up somebody at Mountain View station. At the time I was asking him if the railroad actually went to Delaware. I had no idea what "Lackawanna" meant at the time but the engines looked nicer than the Erie locos over on the Greenwood Lake Branch. I don't believe the entire song is about the Lackawanna. John is one of a few guys mentioned in the lyrics; he says he "pusha the cart all day". The artist Phoebe Snow's real name is Phoebe Loeb (sp?). She was looking for a stage name in the early 70's when she was starting out and saw DL&W boxcar that hadn't been repainted. She used Phoebe Snow after that. PEOPLE magazine did a story on her back then showing her standing next to a "Route of Phoebe Snow" boxcar. Ed Montgomery ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000f01c3f1d3$91a355e0$3f4e56d1_@_y6p6m1> References: <102.3ea1ea0f.2d5d69a1_@_aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:49:05 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers It has been there about 6-7 years they trade an old Rutland car for it. It is painted primer rusted gray. It is back of the roundhouse diamond next to the D&MtM nee NKP 304, close to the NW SW unit painted Lackawanna, and next to the wooden Lackawanna round top milk car. They also have a Lackawanna gon painted Conrail, donated 8 years or so ago, plus a Lackawanna troop sleeper, unrefurnished. Regards David MV ----- Original Message ----- From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com To: dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net Cc: pat_mcknight_@_nps.gov Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 6:43 PM Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers In a message dated 2/12/2004 1:29:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net writes: Interestingly there is a Lackawanna Refer at Steamtown in primer gray, for the past 6-7 years. Regards David MV ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:20 AM Subject: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers > Anyone know if the DL&W leased steel reefers were in use on the E-L ? > Dave Where is it? What's the former number? Lackawanna? Bob ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1076637742.402c302e30d78_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: <102.3ea1ea0f.2d5d69a1_@_aol.com> <000f01c3f1d3$91a355e0$3f4e56d1@y6p6m1> In-Reply-To: <000f01c3f1d3$91a355e0$3f4e56d1_@_y6p6m1> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:02:22 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers I think that that Conrail painted gon is actually Lehigh Valley David. - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting "David J. Monte Verde" : > It has been there about 6-7 years they trade an old Rutland car for it. It is > painted primer rusted gray. It is back of the roundhouse diamond next to the > D&MtM nee NKP 304, close to the NW SW unit painted Lackawanna, and next to > the wooden Lackawanna round top milk car. They also have a Lackawanna gon > painted Conrail, donated 8 years or so ago, plus a Lackawanna troop sleeper, > unrefurnished. > > Regards David MV > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com > To: dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net > Cc: pat_mcknight_@_nps.gov > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 6:43 PM > Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers > > > In a message dated 2/12/2004 1:29:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net writes: > Interestingly there is a Lackawanna Refer at Steamtown in primer gray, > for > the past 6-7 years. Regards David MV > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:20 AM > Subject: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers > > > > Anyone know if the DL&W leased steel reefers were in use on the E-L ? > > > Dave > > Where is it? What's the former number? Lackawanna? > Bob > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <02e601c3f1d5$5fe6dfc0$c8d65142_@_mrnickerson> References: <002101c3f17e$fd2f1380$660c4b43_@_4sxh40b> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:01:49 -0800 From: "Michael" Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR Dear Steve, Searching for "delaware lackawan" came up with: http://www.harrywarren.org/songs/0584.htm It is from 1926! Mike Nickerson California Native of Wellsville NY, b.1958 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Mcdonough" To: Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:43 AM Subject: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR > Hi folks. > > I have been trying to find the title of a song my uncle used to sing > when I was a kid. I can't find anything on the internet, but I thought > that given your speciality, you guys might know something about this. > > The song's lyrics are like this: > > Where do you work-a John? > "I work-a the Erie Lackawann" > Steve McDonough ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040212230733.01b4dac8_@_64.136.28.166> References: <157240-220042412174516604_@_M2W045.mail2web.com> In-Reply-To: <157240-220042412174516604_@_M2W045.mail2web.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:09:35 -0500 From: Ken Subject: RE: (erielack) Hillsdale County Railroad I took another look at the website, but it doesn't say. I think that the Indiana Northeastern took over in 1982, so it was before then. Ken B. At 12:45 PM 2/12/2004, tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com wrote: >And, while we're asking questions, how old is that photo?? I haven't seen >an EL boxcar in service in at least 10 years. > >TAB > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: Ken erie910_@_netzero.com >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:58:04 -0500 >To: vze7zm0q_@_verizon.net, luxpan@hotmail.com, erielack@lists.railfan.net >Subject: (erielack) Hillsdale County Railroad > > >Okay, okay--I see it on my 15" monitor, using Opera and increasing the >magnification. The fourth car is E-L also. > >Now, is there any reason why so many E-L cars would end up in Hillsdale >County, Michigan? > > >Ken B. > >At 10:16 PM 2/11/2004, Schuyler Larrabee wrote: > >Ken, look just a >>little<< further into the train > >. . . 8^) > > > >SGL > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 1/30/2004 - --=======526134D8====== - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 1/30/2004 - --=======526134D8=======-- ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1192 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:30:53 -0500 From: "James Harr" Subject: Re:(erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR List; For any of you movie buffs out there, a ways back I was watching the movie "The Fighting Seabees" starring John Wayne (and the fellow that played Fred Mertz on the I Love Lucy show); John Wayne is the boss of a gang of rough-necks that want to "join up and do their part", while entertaining some Navy-brass types at a party, Fred Mertz (?) leads the gang in a rousing rendition of "Where-a-you-work-a-John!" So, heads up for it. The movie is not half bad, either; your typical John-Wayne-swashbuckling-we're-gonna-kick-some-butt type of movie... I think it was filmed ca. 1944, but I'd have to check... No other train content, but some great bulldozers-getting-dive-bombed action! Jim Harr Where do you work-a John? "I work-a the Erie Lackawann" Whaddya do-a John? "I push-a-push-a-push" Whaddya push-a John? "I push-a-push-a truck" Where do you push-a truck? "On the Erie Lackawann-a-wann, on the Erie Lackawann" ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000e01c3f24b$16eff740$a8f44b0c_@_pavilion> References: <200402131032.i1DAW0WU055602_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:59:48 -0800 From: "Blake D. Tatar" Subject: (erielack) Re: Re: Model poll: Paint schemes Actually Jim, I meant to say that you would agree on satin finish. Looking at the way I wrote that, it does in fact read that you would agree about the windows. I do know your stance on clean windows. By the way, does anyone make HO or N scale bugs to put on the noses of E-units?! Now that would be over the top! Blake D. Tatar Custom painting, repairs and modifications of model railroad equipment. Brass a Specialty. E-mail : BDTatar_@_worldnet.att.net Website @ : www.BlakeDTatar.com All mail is scanned by Norton Internet Security prior to sending! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40B1_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:19:11 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) FW: [Fwd: Update Lower Boonton Line] Folks, Here's an update from the NY&GL on the lower Boonton Line service... - Paul > Wrom: AAFXISHJEXXIMQ > Date: 2004/02/12 Thu AM 11:56:11 EST > Subject: Update Lower Boonton Line > > > Yesterday was, "Railroad Day on The Hill" in Washington, DC. and Jim > met individually with Senator Lautenberg, Congressman Pascrell, > Congressman Menendez, Congressman Freylinghuysen and  Congressman > LoBiondo (Transportation and Infrastructure Committee) . > > All were presented with a package containing the transcripts of the > public > meeting with NJ Transit which was held on Jan 21st in Kearny. They spoke at > length about the issues brought up by the mayors and commuters regarding the > discontinuance of the Lower Boonton Line. > We are happy to report that your representatives took a genuine interest in > the plight of the towns and commuters. > > Jim asked for their support and any assistance they could provide in > helping > restore the rail service to our communities.  We just want to keep you updated > and let you know we are vigorously pursing reopening the railine. > > Patti > NYGL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40BA_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:00:45 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Hi folks, I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel compelled to tell the world: I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) My wife and I will be having our first child (scheduled for Aug. 9). Names have not been decided (though at least one person asked if "Phoebe" was in the running - sorry, no! :) I've already started to stock up on the Brio wooden trains (my wife: "But what if it's a girl?" - me: "Yeah, and...?" :) OK, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Back to our regularly-scheduled EL/DL&W/Erie conversations... - Paul Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ Lucent Technologies Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 Performance Test Team 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:16:45 -0500 From: "Tom Schmieder" Subject: RE: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Paul, you didn't realize that this news is list-related. There's no doubt that your child will end up joining the ranks as another EL/DL&W/Erie fan! Genuine list content. Congratulations!!! Tom Schmieder >From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" >Reply-To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" >To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net >Subject: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:00:45 -0500 > >Hi folks, > > I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel compelled to tell >the world: > > I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) > > My wife and I will be having our first child (scheduled for Aug. 9). Names >have not been decided (though at least one person asked if "Phoebe" was in >the running - sorry, no! :) > > I've already started to stock up on the Brio wooden trains (my wife: "But >what if it's a girl?" - me: "Yeah, and...?" :) > > OK, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Back to our >regularly-scheduled EL/DL&W/Erie conversations... > > - Paul > > >Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ >Lucent Technologies >Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 >MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 >Performance Test Team >67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 >Whippany, NJ 07981 >_______________________________________________ > > > _________________________________________________________________ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <9.22543e31.2d5e385c_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:25:32 EST From: Jjbchian_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) In a message dated 2/13/2004 7:17:49 AM Mountain Standard Time, dlw_fan_@_hotmail.com writes: > Paul, you didn't realize that this news is list-related. There's no doubt > that your child will end up joining the ranks as another EL/DL&W/Erie fan! > Genuine list content. Congratulations!!! > > Agreed, Congratulations!!!! JJBoehner ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40C1_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:44:48 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) How times change! Hello all, I was thinking the other day about the "Discovery Days" that we've done with this list (and I'm sorry I haven't done more, as time precludes me from doing so), and have come to the realization that much of what we've seen is now gone or changed drastically! Take a look at the last two on the Discovery Days page: http://el-list.railfan.net/discdays/ * Croxton Yard has been completely rebuilt, and there is no sign of the engine facility anymore. * Boonton no longer has any signal bridges; the old Fanny Road bridge is gone and rebuilt, and the Freight House is now morphing into a dance studio! Another "Discovery Day" we did (that wasn't put up on a web page, but the photos and a report can be seen at http://www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/200211/msg00237.html ) also covered some trackage that is now ripped up (well, at least half of it!) It seems that a LOT has changed in the past 5 years, a lot of stuff that had been much the same since the end of the EL. :( - Paul Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ Lucent Technologies Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 Performance Test Team 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00fc01c3f23f$c2cbbf60$be245142_@_mrnickerson> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40BA_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:43:29 -0800 From: "Michael" Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Dear Paul and List, But I bet the name "Susan Quinlan Tupaczewski" has at least a fighting chance. (Susie Q) Too bad there are not more female-appropriate names that begin with "Q." I had to choose between either Quinlan or Queenie. Congratulations! Mike Nickerson California - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" To: Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:00 AM Subject: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) > Hi folks, > > I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel compelled to tell the world: > > I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) > > My wife and I will be having our first child (scheduled for Aug. 9). Names have not been decided (though at least one person asked if "Phoebe" was in the running - sorry, no! :) - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1076683622.402ce366b98ef_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40BA_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40BA_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:47:02 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Congratulations Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" : > Hi folks, > > I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel compelled to tell > the world: > > I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) > > My wife and I will be having our first child (scheduled for Aug. 9). Names > have not been decided (though at least one person asked if "Phoebe" was in > the running - sorry, no! :) > > I've already started to stock up on the Brio wooden trains (my wife: "But > what if it's a girl?" - me: "Yeah, and...?" :) > > OK, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Back to our > regularly-scheduled EL/DL&W/Erie conversations... > > - Paul > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > Lucent Technologies > Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > Performance Test Team > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > Whippany, NJ 07981 > _______________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040213093956.02931160_@_allegheny.edu> In-Reply-To: <9.22543e31.2d5e385c_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:41:45 -0500 From: Pete Gifford Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) At 09:25 AM 2/13/2004 -0500, Jjbchian_@_aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 2/13/2004 7:17:49 AM Mountain Standard Time, >dlw_fan_@_hotmail.com writes: > > > > Paul, you didn't realize that this news is list-related. There's no doubt > > that your child will end up joining the ranks as another EL/DL&W/Erie > fan! > > Genuine list content. Congratulations!!! > > > > > > Agreed, Congratulations!!!! JJBoehner Yes, congratulations indeed. Stock up on your sleep while you can! And, despite proper ancestry, love and nurturing, the child may still grow up to be a UP or BNSF fan, or, heaven forbid, a CSX fan! Pete Gifford ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40C2_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:46:22 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Truth be told, the name "Caitlin Ann" is one my wife thought of that is the front runner right now (of course, I won't mention the "Katy" nickname and its association to railroads... ;) - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael [mailto:michael4449_@_yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 9:43 AM > To: Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul); erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) > > > Dear Paul and List, > > But I bet the name "Susan Quinlan Tupaczewski" has at least a > fighting chance. (Susie Q) > > Too bad there are not more female-appropriate names that > begin with "Q." I had to choose between either Quinlan or Queenie. > > Congratulations! > > Mike Nickerson > California > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:00 AM > Subject: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) > > > > Hi folks, > > > > I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel > compelled to > > tell > the world: > > > > I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) > > > > My wife and I will be having our first child (scheduled for > Aug. 9). > > Names > have not been decided (though at least one person asked if > "Phoebe" was in the running - sorry, no! :) > - Paul > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040213.102819.3956.0.ptrmgtsvc_@_juno.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:28:19 -0500 From: Michael E Allen Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Congratulations Paul, Your whole life is about to really change. Since you will be getting very little sleep for a year or so I hope your house is located so you can at least see the track. A couple of points from experience. 1. My 80-something year old mother is convinced that my fascination with trains comes from her commuting on the South Shore and Pere Marquette while she was carrying me (same goes for my younger brother) and that my first conscious memory of my father is of him getting off the train when he came back from Korea. So lots of train trips starting now. 2. My 4-year old niece has Brio and Thomas collection which has both me and her 22-year old cousin (also female) downright jealous. She is now lobbying for Lionel. 3. For list relevance - About 5 million years ago I got the "Guess what, Honey!!" news on the platform at Convent. MEA On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:00:45 -0500 "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" writes: > Hi folks, > > I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel > compelled to tell the world: > > I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) > > My wife and I will be having our first child (scheduled for Aug. 9). Names have not been decided (though at least one person asked if "Phoebe" was in the running - sorry, no! :) > > I've already started to stock up on the Brio wooden trains (my wife: "But what if it's a girl?" - me: "Yeah, and...?" :) > > OK, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Back to our > regularly-scheduled EL/DL&W/Erie conversations... > > - Paul > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > Lucent Technologies > Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > Performance Test Team > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > Whippany, NJ 07981 > _______________________________________________ > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040213161039.74122.qmail_@_web40806.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040213.102819.3956.0.ptrmgtsvc_@_juno.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:10:39 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Stuy Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) > 1. My 80-something year old mother is convinced that > my fascination with > trains comes from her commuting on the South Shore > and Pere Marquette > while she was carrying me (same goes for my younger > brother) and that my > first conscious memory of my father is of him > getting off the train when > he came back from Korea. So lots of train trips > starting now. Wow, what a great theory! My parents did a three week trip across the US about 5 months before I was born. Alas, no EL but they did ride the 20th Century Limited, Empire Builder, Shasta Daylight and the City of Los Angeles. It must have worked! Tim ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:43:43 -0500 (EST) From: "J. Henry Priebe Jr." Subject: (erielack) Hoboken wartime photo? [was "Could you please Help ?"] NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-13-04 01.jpg (image/jpeg, 36813 bytes) Can anyone verify that this photo is Hoboken? I woulod say yes, by the looks of the fence and the overhead catenary, but I can't comment on the visible passenger car details. Please CC Lorraine Irwin paulanthonyblack_@_hotmail.com with replies. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon Internet Corp Network Administrator www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:42:04 +0000 From: Paul Black Subject: Could you please Help ? To whom it may concern. I would be very grateful if someone could identify this photograhp as being of an American Train, apparently taken in October 1940 at Hobeken, New Jersey, USA. I live in Oxford, England and as I was walking past a book shop I saw a picture of someone who looks identical to my Grandfather. I contacted the publishers and this is the information I was given, which would be extremely dissapointing as my Grandfather was British and never went to America, but was on his way to the Middle East in 1940! I hope that someone can put my mind at rest either way. Kindest regards Lorraine Irwin ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:26:10 -0500 From: Pat_McKnight_@_nps.gov Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers The Conrail painted gon is DL&W and EL. The Lehigh Valley gon is black and painted MREX. Pat McKnight Historian, Steamtown NHS "Joshua K. Blay" om> cc: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net, (bcc: Pat McKnight/STEA/NPS) Sent by: Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers erielack-owner_@_lists. railfan.net 02/12/2004 09:02 PM EST Please respond to "Joshua K. Blay" I think that that Conrail painted gon is actually Lehigh Valley David. - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting "David J. Monte Verde" : > It has been there about 6-7 years they trade an old Rutland car for it. It is > painted primer rusted gray. It is back of the roundhouse diamond next to the > D&MtM nee NKP 304, close to the NW SW unit painted Lackawanna, and next to > the wooden Lackawanna round top milk car. They also have a Lackawanna gon > painted Conrail, donated 8 years or so ago, plus a Lackawanna troop sleeper, > unrefurnished. > > Regards David MV > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com > To: dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net > Cc: pat_mcknight_@_nps.gov > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 6:43 PM > Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers > > > In a message dated 2/12/2004 1:29:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net writes: > Interestingly there is a Lackawanna Refer at Steamtown in primer gray, > for > the past 6-7 years. Regards David MV > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:20 AM > Subject: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers > > > > Anyone know if the DL&W leased steel reefers were in use on the E-L ? > > > Dave > > Where is it? What's the former number? Lackawanna? > Bob > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1076693695.402d0abfaaea5_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:34:55 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers Well that's pretty cool then. Didn't know STEA had a DL&W gondola. Sorry David. - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting Pat_McKnight_@_nps.gov: > > > > > The Conrail painted gon is DL&W and EL. The Lehigh Valley gon is black and > painted MREX. > > Pat McKnight > Historian, Steamtown NHS > > > > > "Joshua K. Blay" > > Verde" > om> cc: > erielack_@_lists.railfan.net, (bcc: Pat McKnight/STEA/NPS) > > Sent by: Subject: Re: (erielack) > DL&W (MDT) steel reefers > erielack-owner_@_lists. > > railfan.net > > > > > > 02/12/2004 09:02 PM > > EST > > Please respond to > > "Joshua K. Blay" > > > > > > > > > > I think that that Conrail painted gon is actually Lehigh Valley David. > > -- > Joshua > http://www.joshuakblay.com > > > > Quoting "David J. Monte Verde" : > > > It has been there about 6-7 years they trade an old Rutland car for it. > It is > > painted primer rusted gray. It is back of the roundhouse diamond next to > the > > D&MtM nee NKP 304, close to the NW SW unit painted Lackawanna, and next > to > > the wooden Lackawanna round top milk car. They also have a Lackawanna gon > > painted Conrail, donated 8 years or so ago, plus a Lackawanna troop > sleeper, > > unrefurnished. > > > > Regards David MV > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com > > To: dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net > > Cc: pat_mcknight_@_nps.gov > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 6:43 PM > > Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers > > > > > > In a message dated 2/12/2004 1:29:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net writes: > > Interestingly there is a Lackawanna Refer at Steamtown in primer > gray, > > for > > the past 6-7 years. Regards David MV > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:20 AM > > Subject: (erielack) DL&W (MDT) steel reefers > > > > > > > Anyone know if the DL&W leased steel reefers were in use on the E-L > ? > > > > > Dave > > > > Where is it? What's the former number? Lackawanna? > > Bob > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40C6_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:23:12 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Hoboken wartime photo? [was "Could you please Help ?"] It's very hard to tell. If it is, it would have to be out at the end of one of the platforms, as there is no overhead canopy. - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: J. Henry Priebe Jr. [mailto:root_@_net.bluemoon.net] > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 11:44 AM > To: Erie Lackawanna Mail List > Subject: (erielack) Hoboken wartime photo? [was "Could you > please Help ?"] > > > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image > attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut > and paste the following URL into your web browser: > > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-13-04 > > 01.jpg (image/jpeg, 36813 bytes) > > > Can anyone verify that this photo is Hoboken? > > I woulod say yes, by the looks of the fence and the overhead > catenary, but I can't comment on the visible passenger car details. > > Please CC Lorraine Irwin paulanthonyblack_@_hotmail.com with replies. > > Henry > > J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon Internet Corp Network Administrator > www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting > www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:42:04 +0000 > From: Paul Black > Subject: Could you please Help ? > > > To whom it may concern. > > I would be very grateful if someone could identify this > photograhp as being > of > an American Train, apparently taken in October 1940 at > Hobeken, New Jersey, USA. I live in Oxford, England and as I > was walking past a book shop I saw > a > picture of someone who looks identical to my Grandfather. I > contacted the publishers and this is the information I was > given, which would be extremely dissapointing as my > Grandfather was British and never went to America, but > was > on his way to the Middle East in 1940! > > I hope that someone can put my mind at rest either way. > > Kindest regards > > Lorraine Irwin > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <146.21f906e9.2d5e71eb_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:31:07 EST From: Lederer73_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Hoboken wartime photo? [was "Could you please Help ?"] In a message dated 2/13/2004 1:24:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, paultup_@_lucent.com writes: > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-13-04 I dont recall seeing a metal guardrail across the tops of the spiked fence...? - -Pat ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:32:36 -0500 From: "Tom Schmieder" Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) How about ELaine? ELouise? ELeanor? ELvira? Notice anything about those names? ; ) Tom >From: "Michael" >Reply-To: "Michael" >To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" , > >Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:43:29 -0800 > >Dear Paul and List, > >But I bet the name "Susan Quinlan Tupaczewski" has at least a fighting >chance. (Susie Q) > >Too bad there are not more female-appropriate names that begin with "Q." I >had to choose between either Quinlan or Queenie. > >Congratulations! > >Mike Nickerson >California > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" >To: >Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:00 AM >Subject: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) > > > > Hi folks, > > > > I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel compelled to >tell >the world: > > > > I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) > > > > My wife and I will be having our first child (scheduled for Aug. 9). >Names >have not been decided (though at least one person asked if "Phoebe" was in >the running - sorry, no! :) >- Paul > _________________________________________________________________ Plan your next US getaway to one of the super destinations here. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040213134616.0349c618_@_allegheny.edu> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:48:13 -0500 From: Pete Gifford Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) At 01:32 PM 2/13/2004 -0500, Tom Schmieder wrote: >How about ELaine? ELouise? ELeanor? ELvira? Notice anything about >those names? ; ) > >Tom Ot you could go with something like Nancy Jane Tupaczewski or Neil Joseph Tupaczewski . Might be able to get some good monograms! Pete Gifford ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <46.46cf69c6.2d5e76b7_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:51:35 EST From: WSmith5957_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) EL Extra 3657 east Joe & list.........I've been offlist for a few days, but seeing the post on the Fairlawn pileup brought it to mind. At the time I was working the New York Division & read it in the papers. I worked with the engineer, but was not on the job that day. Not sure, but I think the engr. was Willie Height. For the longest time I had a clipping from the World-Telegram (also gone) that was an aerial view showing the train in the factory siding. Prior to that, there was another interesting incident where one of the ERIE commuter trains came around a curve to se a tanktruck parked at a factory with the rear end extending over the track. Rather than bighole it, the oldhead engineer had the presence of mind to open the throttle of the RS3 & carried the train past the resulting fire (the tanker was loaded with linseed oil not gasoline thank God). The oil went all over the side of the coaches but the windows were closed & psgrs were able to exit otherside when the train stopped. Evidently the train carried a lot of radio & TV folks & someone of them arranged for the engineer to appear on a quiz show & win some money as a 'Thank you'. Ed Murray was the fireman on that job & told me about it. I later fired for him in the 60s. Ed was a former NYO&W engineer who found refuge on the ERIE after the demise of the O&W. Regards to all, Walter Smith ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40C8_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:20:36 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) You all assume it will be a girl. We don't know that! :) And I don't think the wife will go for "Elvira" :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Schmieder [mailto:dlw_fan_@_hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 1:33 PM > To: michael4449_@_yahoo.com; paultup@lucent.com; > erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) > > > How about ELaine? ELouise? ELeanor? ELvira? Notice > anything about those > names? ; ) > > Tom > > > >From: "Michael" > >Reply-To: "Michael" > >To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" , > > > >Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) > >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:43:29 -0800 > > > >Dear Paul and List, > > > >But I bet the name "Susan Quinlan Tupaczewski" has at least > a fighting > >chance. (Susie Q) > > > >Too bad there are not more female-appropriate names that begin with > >"Q." I had to choose between either Quinlan or Queenie. > > > >Congratulations! > > > >Mike Nickerson > >California > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:00 AM > >Subject: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel > compelled > > > to > >tell > >the world: > > > > > > I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) > > > > > > My wife and I will be having our first child (scheduled > for Aug. 9). > >Names > >have not been decided (though at least one person asked if > "Phoebe" was > >in the running - sorry, no! :) > >- Paul > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Plan your next US getaway to one of the super destinations here. > http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <402D359B.4000206_@_netscape.net> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40BA_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:37:47 -0500 From: Al Reibel Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul) wrote: >Hi folks, > > I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel compelled to tell the world: > > I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) > Oh, Great- Now before long there's going to be a four year old that can identify diesels better than I can! Seriously, Congratulations Paul! I have four kids, but I'm not sure if thast qualifies me as a veteran or a masochist. Anyway, it's a blast (most of the time) Al Reibel > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <402D39C8.4060106_@_netscape.net> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:55:36 -0500 From: Al Reibel Subject: (erielack) OT- From another list- This was posted to the Erie RR yahoo group- Maybe some of you guys from the other end of PA can help? Al Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:24:06 -0000 From: "chriscom992001" Subject: Lehigh Valley Rr Steam Engine Bell Hello all, I have a Lehigh Valley RR steam engine bell. I believe it's quite old. I have details and pictures (for anyone interested.) I was HOPING you might advise me as to date, engine, or other "history" on this item. This comes from the estate of a man who worked on the Lehigh Valley RR as an engineer's assistant, I believe, from ~ 1925 - 1945. 1', 9' high. Bell itself is 1' 3" wide with a 4 foot radius (all around.) There's a 5 ' crack on one side, much like the Liberty Bell. A6168 is on the top. 1447 is on the bell. Can't quite read the other marking on the black "rocker" arm - 425588 or 125569 or 89 but really not sure. Any insights would be helpful! Chris Miller, 570-675-4933 chriscom_@_microserve.net ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:46:50 -0500 From: "Marty Obed" Subject: (erielack) Where Do You Work-a, John? Mike, Steve, Len and the rest of the EL gang: Here it is from the old music appreciation teacher: The railroad song Steve asked about is of course about the DL&W, not the EL. The piece was well-known to young and old in the northeast, including my dad from Avella, PA and my wife from New Castle, PA. As Mike Nickerson stated earlier, the song is by Harry Warren, but also by Mortimer Weinberg and Charley Marks. It was made popular by Fred Waring and the Pennsylvanians. (I seem to remember that Fred was from Stroudsburg???) I finally got a recording of it from my dad a few years ago. It was included on a Mitch Miller Sing Along LP (Columbia CL 1568), although I'd like to find a longer, better rendition of it. It's combined in a medley with "Yes, We Have No Bananas"(another favorite of mine which has nothing to do with Erie reefers). The DL&W song begins "Where do you work-a, John, On the Delaware Lack-a-wan." I have the rest of the lyrics but, for copyright's sake, will direct you to the site Mike found: http://www.harrywarren.org/songs/0584.htm. Although the Lackawanna song practically became part of the folklore of the northeast, it was perhaps too regional to become one of the top national hits of 1926. The number one ranked hit that year was "Valencia (A Song of Spain)," as sung by Franklyn Bauer, with the Paul Whiteman orchestra. Thanks for the opportunity to dust off my MUS 101 reference books. Marty Obed ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <89.34e032d.2d5e9735_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:10:13 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Photo Question. http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-13-04 01.jpg (image/jpeg, 36813 bytes) Can anyone verify that this photo is Hoboken? Henry I would say no. for several reasons. Starting with the fence, and the ladies ability to get on the other track like that. Bob ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040213213108.9625.qmail_@_web41101.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40C6_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:31:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: RE: (erielack) Hoboken wartime photo? [was "Could you please Help ?"] I don't think it is. In the recently-critiqued STEAM TO DIESEL IN NJ book are two photos at Hoboken, pages 78 and 79 which represent 1957-1958. The metal fence between the tracks at Hoboken was made of U-shaped tubes rather than bars having points at the top with the solid railing along the top to conceal the points (looks like it was added later?). The tubes are also closer together than in the photo. Of course, the fence could have been replaced between WW II and 1957. - --- "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" wrote: > It's very hard to tell. If it is, it would have to be out at the end of > one of the platforms, as there is no overhead canopy. > > - Paul > > -----Original Message----- > > From: J. Henry Priebe Jr. [mailto:root_@_net.bluemoon.net] > > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 11:44 AM > > To: Erie Lackawanna Mail List > > Subject: (erielack) Hoboken wartime photo? [was "Could you > > please Help ?"] > > > > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image > > attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut > > and paste the following URL into your web browser: > > > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-13-04 > > > > 01.jpg (image/jpeg, 36813 bytes) > > > > Can anyone verify that this photo is Hoboken? > > > > I would say yes, by the looks of the fence and the overhead > > catenary, but I can't comment on the visible passenger car details. > > > > Please CC Lorraine Irwin paulanthonyblack_@_hotmail.com with replies. > > > > Henry > > > > J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon Internet Corp Network Administrator > > www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting > > www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:42:04 +0000 > > From: Paul Black > > Subject: Could you please Help ? > > > > To whom it may concern. > > > > I would be very grateful if someone could identify this photograph as > > being of an American Train, apparently taken in October 1940 at > > Hoboken, New Jersey, USA. I live in Oxford, England and as I > > was walking past a book shop I saw a picture of someone who looks > > identical to my Grandfather. I contacted the publishers and this is > > the information I was given, which would be extremely disappointing > > as my Grandfather was British and never went to America, but was > > on his way to the Middle East in 1940! > > > > I hope that someone can put my mind at rest either way. > > > > Kindest regards > > > > Lorraine Irwin ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000e01c3f27c$592e9f40$660c4b43_@_4sxh40b> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:57:15 -0500 From: "Steven Mcdonough" Subject: (erielack) Thanks to all... Thanks to all of you. I of course found, with your help, more than I had hoped for. Best wishes, Steve ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1193 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:26:24 EST From: Andrisd_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Congratulations. I'm surprised no one has brought up the colors for the nursery, Gray with Maroon and Yellow trim? Andy Cole P.S. my two granddaughters love the Thomas sets. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000b01c3f311$31a20080$6401a8c0_@_dslverizon.net> References: <200402141032.i1EAW0EE044270_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:42:45 -0500 From: "Curtis Brookshire" Subject: (erielack) Re: The Song - Other Actor Just to complete the record, the "other actor" in the "Fighting Seebees" who later played Fred Mertz was William Frawley, a character actor who appeared in several movies in the 40s, including the original "Miracle on 34th St." His last role was in the first season of "My Three Sons". He passed in 1960. Glad someone identified "Where Do You Worka John?". My father had a record of that song when I was very little. "John represented one of the many workers who doffed their hats as Phoebe Snow passed. Curtis Brookshire ELHS 1289 Manassas, VA ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:09:30 -0500 From: "James Harr" Subject: RE: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Paul (and Gina); Well, how's about that ;-) I think Tom put it pretty darn well: >>Paul, you didn't realize that this news is list-related. There's no doubt >>that your child will end up joining the ranks as another EL/DL&W/Erie fan! >>Genuine list content. Congratulations!!! Wishing you both the best; Congratulations, Daddy-O! Jim Harr ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <402E48BD.000007.30909_@_DONS PC> References: Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:11:41 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Donald E Kern Jr" Subject: RE: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) BackGrnd.jpg (image/jpeg, 1438 bytes) Sender: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net Precedence: normal Reply-To: "Donald E Kern Jr" Congrats to Paul! :-) - -------Original Message------- From: Tom Schmieder Date: 02/13/04 09:18:44 To: paultup_@_lucent.com; erielack@lists.railfan.net Subject: RE: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Paul, you didn't realize that this news is list-related. There's no doubt that your child will end up joining the ranks as another EL/DL&W/Erie fan! Genuine list content. Congratulations!!! Tom Schmieder >From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" >Reply-To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" >To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net >Subject: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:00:45 -0500 > >Hi folks, > > I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel compelled to tell >the world: > > I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) > > My wife and I will be having our first child (scheduled for Aug. 9). Names >have not been decided (though at least one person asked if "Phoebe" was in >the running - sorry, no! :) > > I've already started to stock up on the Brio wooden trains (my wife: "But >what if it's a girl?" - me: "Yeah, and...?" :) > > OK, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Back to our >regularly-scheduled EL/DL&W/Erie conversations... > > - Paul > > >Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ >Lucent Technologies >Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 >MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 >Performance Test Team >67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 >Whippany, NJ 07981 >_______________________________________________ > > > _________________________________________________________________ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - --------------Boundary-00=_HZ03RN00000000000000 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040214171153.53443.qmail_@_web40709.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:11:53 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hollritt Subject: (erielack) RE: Off-Topic, but intresting nevertheless... :) Congratulations Paul! A third member of the crew, very nice. But your a brave man posting that upcoming release information to this list, can you imagine the comments this august? "Well, the hair color is incorrect!" "Hmmm... the weight on feet is a bit off" "With the sound option on... it's altogether way too loud!!!" wonderful news, see you on the recreated EL Passenger train as we glide over the fresh ballast and welded rail humming over the restored Lackawanna cutoff, I am sure you will be in the 741 changing diapers :^) Todd- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:00:45 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Hi folks, I know this isn't directly list-related, but I just feel compelled to tell the world: I'M GOING TO BE A DAD! :) - - Paul - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <402E96C9.EB2F16BB_@_optonline.net> References: Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:44:41 -0500 From: Tony Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR I think his name was William Frawley. He also played "Bub" on My three Sons. James Harr wrote: > List; > > For any of you movie buffs out there, a ways back I was watching the movie > "The Fighting Seabees" starring John Wayne (and the fellow that played Fred > Mertz on the I Love Lucy show); John Wayne is the boss of a gang of > rough-necks that want to "join up and do their part", while entertaining > some Navy-brass types at a party, Fred Mertz (?) leads the gang in a rousing > rendition of "Where-a-you-work-a-John!" > > So, heads up for it. The movie is not half bad, either; your typical > John-Wayne-swashbuckling-we're-gonna-kick-some-butt type of movie... I think > it was filmed ca. 1944, but I'd have to check... No other train content, but > some great bulldozers-getting-dive-bombed action! > > Jim Harr > > Where do you work-a John? > "I work-a the Erie Lackawann" > Whaddya do-a John? > "I push-a-push-a-push" > Whaddya push-a John? > "I push-a-push-a truck" > Where do you push-a truck? > "On the Erie Lackawann-a-wann, > on the Erie Lackawann" ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <410-220042614225924787_@_earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:59:24 -0500 From: "Philip Martin" Subject: Re: (erielack) EL Extra 3657 east One engineer told me that when a cab unit hit a gasoline truck, the little door in the nose, and the one behind it in the engine compartment would give way, open up, and all the fire would be in the cab. Philip Martin martinpl3_@_earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Cc: > Date: 2/13/2004 1:51:55 PM > Subject: Re: (erielack) EL Extra 3657 east > > Joe & list.........I've been offlist for a few days, but seeing the post on > the Fairlawn pileup brought it to mind. At the time I was working the New York > Division & read it in the papers. I worked with the engineer, but was not on > the job that day. Not sure, but I think the engr. was Willie Height. For the > longest time I had a clipping from the World-Telegram (also gone) that was an > aerial view showing the train in the factory siding. > Prior to that, there was another interesting incident where one of the > ERIE commuter trains came around a curve to se a tanktruck parked at a factory > with the rear end extending over the track. Rather than bighole it, the > oldhead engineer had the presence of mind to open the throttle of the RS3 & carried > the train past the resulting fire (the tanker was loaded with linseed oil not > gasoline thank God). The oil went all over the side of the coaches but the > windows were closed & psgrs were able to exit otherside when the train stopped. > Evidently the train carried a lot of radio & TV folks & someone of them > arranged for the engineer to appear on a quiz show & win some money as a 'Thank > you'. Ed Murray was the fireman on that job & told me about it. I later fired for > him in the 60s. Ed was a former NYO&W engineer who found refuge on the ERIE > after the demise of the O&W. > Regards to all, > Walter Smith ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <410-220042614234246769_@_earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:42:46 -0500 From: "Philip Martin" Subject: RE: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" It's used in railroading to refer to employees who get good pay for doing little work. Union negotiated contracts sometimes contribute to this situation. In railroading, members of one craft aren't permitted to do the work of a another craft. While that usually makes seance, over the years it has been carried to extremes, resulting in people being idled (with pay) who could easily perform necessary work. Philip Martin martinpl3_@_earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: Timothy Phalon > To: > Date: 2/10/2004 5:24:32 PM > Subject: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" > > List, > > I am trying to find out if the term "feather Beder" is a railroad related > term and what it means. This is part of a school project for a friend. > > Please respond off list. > > Thanks > > Tim Phalon > > _________________________________________________________________ > Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <410-2200420150010139_@_earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:00:10 -0500 From: "Philip Martin" Subject: Re: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" Ever hear of "automatic pilot?" Good by. No pilot at all. Philip Martin martinpl3_@_earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: Gary R. Kazin > To: EL List > Date: 2/11/2004 3:26:05 PM > Subject: Re: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" > > --- WSmith5957_@_aol.com wrote: > > Why do you think the airlines have 2 men in the cockpit?????? > > Not that long ago, there were three. > > > ===== > Gary R. Kazin > DL&W Milepost R35.7 > Rockaway, New Jersey > > http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <410-220042614235743699_@_earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:57:43 -0500 From: "Philip Martin" Subject: Re: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" Verbiage isn't going to save jobs. The reality is either there is work there, or there isn't. My belief is that railroads can do anything they want to do, and employees, playing games, can't stop it. Philip Martin martinpl3_@_earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Cc: > Date: 2/11/2004 2:52:02 PM > Subject: Re: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" > > I first heard the term when the RRs got rid of the steam engine but kept > 2 men in the engine cab, calling one of them a 'fireman' even tho there was > no longer any coal to shovel on a deisel engine. The unions fought to keep the > job which really was more like an apprentice engineer & should have been so > called. By keeping the term 'fireman', the unions let themselves open to charges > of being paid for not performing any work or 'featherbedding'.....like > sleeping in a featherbed when you were being paid to work. The smear worked very > well at the time. If they had used the term 'apprentice engineer', it would have > been harder for the railroad companies to get rid of the job. There's a lot > more than just running the locomotive in an engineers job & the best way is to > be an apprentice. That's how I learned it. Why do you think the airlines have > 2 men in the cockpit?????? Nobody shovels coal there, yet nobody queations the > need for the senior man to teach the junior man such a responsible job. > (There have been rumbles from the airlines about the possibility of 'getting by' > with a 1 man cockpit crew. Would u like to fly the Atlantic with one man > handling everything up there???) > Whoever came up with this propaganda tidbit should have been given a > huge award by the industry...they've saved the RRs a bundle. Made it a lot more > unsafe, but what the H---. > Regards, > Walter E. Smith ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <410-22004201501810813_@_earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:18:10 -0500 From: "Philip Martin" Subject: RE: (erielack) Where Do You Work-a, John? What do you do a-John? I poosh I poosh, I poosh. Poos-ah, poosh-ah, poosh-ah, poosh-ah, poosh-ah, poosh-ah, poosh-ah. My first job was a freight handler for the New York Central, and I actually heard an old Italian say "poosh-ah," one time. This was in 1955, and we had names on the roster from 1900. Philip Martin martinpl3_@_earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: Marty Obed > To: ; ; ; ; > Date: 2/13/2004 3:56:11 PM > Subject: (erielack) Where Do You Work-a, John? > > Mike, Steve, Len and the rest of the EL gang: > Here it is from the old music appreciation teacher: > The railroad song Steve asked about is of course about the DL&W, not the > EL. The piece was well-known to young and old in the northeast, > including my dad from Avella, PA and my wife from New Castle, PA. As > Mike Nickerson stated earlier, the song is by Harry Warren, but also by > Mortimer Weinberg and Charley Marks. It was made popular by Fred Waring > and the Pennsylvanians. (I seem to remember that Fred was from > Stroudsburg???) > I finally got a recording of it from my dad a few years ago. It was > included on a Mitch Miller Sing Along LP (Columbia CL 1568), although > I'd like to find a longer, better rendition of it. It's combined in a > medley with "Yes, We Have No Bananas"(another favorite of mine which has > nothing to do with Erie reefers). The DL&W song begins "Where do you > work-a, John, On the Delaware Lack-a-wan." > I have the rest of the lyrics but, for copyright's sake, will direct you > to the site Mike found: http://www.harrywarren.org/songs/0584.htm. > Although the Lackawanna song practically became part of the folklore of > the northeast, it was perhaps too regional to become one of the top > national hits of 1926. The number one ranked hit that year was > "Valencia (A Song of Spain)," as sung by Franklyn Bauer, with the Paul > Whiteman orchestra. > Thanks for the opportunity to dust off my MUS 101 reference books. > Marty Obed > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1076809889.402ed0a1c8340_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:51:29 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 Check this out, the holiest of holy- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3175165578&category=484 My birthday is next month should any of you feel so inclined. :) - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040215024727.EHRP26012.out010.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <1076809889.402ed0a1c8340_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:47:26 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 22 bids . . . Keep it up, guys, I like mine more valuable . . . SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Joshua K. Blay > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:51 PM > To: EL > Subject: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 > > Check this out, the holiest of holy- > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =3175165578& > category=484 > > My birthday is next month should any of you feel so inclined. :) > > -- > Joshua > http://www.joshuakblay.com > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <19d.207acd6c.2d60374a_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:45:30 EST From: Jjbchian_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) RE: Off-Topic, but intresting nevertheless... :) In a message dated 2/14/2004 10:12:59 AM Mountain Standard Time, thollritt_@_yahoo.com writes: > Congratulations Paul! A third member of the crew, very nice. > > But your a brave man posting that upcoming release information to this list, > can you imagine the comments this august? > > "Well, the hair color is incorrect!" > > "Hmmm... the weight on feet is a bit off" > > "With the sound option on... it's altogether way too loud!!!" > > wonderful news, see you on the recreated EL Passenger train as we glide over > the fresh ballast and welded rail humming over the restored Lackawanna > cutoff, I am sure you will be in the 741 changing diapers :^) > > Todd Todd, I really got a kick out of this! Paul in 741 changing diapers? I think we could give him a bathroom in one of the Pullmans for that job. I can see it all now, Gina is enjoying a glass of wine in the Lounge, and she says. "Paul, could you please do a favor for me?" :^P JJBoehner ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <012c01c3f37b$07d173c0$20295142_@_mrnickerson> References: <1076809889.402ed0a1c8340_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:20:20 -0800 From: "Michael" Subject: Re: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 Thank you, Joshua, for your post because I'd been meaning to ask about the Lackawanna streamlined steam locos. I'd seen pictures in black and white, probably in Carleton's book. My Carleton is packed away so I have to use my all-to-fallible memory to write this post. With no color information to go on, I always guessed more in terms of blue with gold lettering & trim instead of a bright green with aluminum trim. In black and white photos, the trim did not appear as bright as aluminum, so I thought bronze or brass trim might have been the case, and the main color blue because I think that color combination is a classic. So I'd like to know more about the short period of streamlined steam on the DL&W. Yes, I'm curious abut them, especially the 4-4-0. Anybody on the list that cares to share info on the Lackawanna streamliners, like assignments, modifications to the shrouding, etc? Mike Nickerson California - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua K. Blay" To: "EL" Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3175165578&category=484 > My birthday is next month should any of you feel so inclined. :) > Joshua ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040215054649.DOTK13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <012c01c3f37b$07d173c0$20295142_@_mrnickerson> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:46:47 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 Mike, allow me to put in a shameless plug for "The Merchant's Engines," by Jerry Segrue. This book, subtitled "A nostalgic review of the Lackawanna's Streamstyled Pacifics" covers the topic you're asking about in substantial detail. The 60 page book includes fold-out drawings of the engines drawn by Jerry, as well as dozens of photographs. As you might infer from the title, the book concentrates on the 4-6-2s, but there are a couple of photos of the other engines, the 4-6-0, the 4-4-0, and a nod to the 4-6-4 which was lightly streamstyled for the '39 Worlds Fair. You can order this book from the publisher, the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society. It is available from Jay Held, 10-10 Ellis Avenue, Fair Lawn NJ 07410. The price is $24.95 plus $6.95 shipping. Make your check to "ELHS." Provide Jay with your street address, since everything we offer is shipped by UPS. As to the model, they are beautiful models of elegant engines. I had the two that I have, both the multi-color one and the Black and Silver one at the club one night. After a while, one of the members came over to me and confided: "I get it. The black one's the boy, and the color one's the girl!" Schuyler Larrabee Chairman ELHS > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Michael > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 11:20 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net; Joshua K. Blay > Subject: Re: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 > > Thank you, Joshua, for your post because I'd been meaning to > ask about the Lackawanna streamlined steam locos. > > I'd seen pictures in black and white, probably in Carleton's > book. My Carleton is packed away so I have to use my > all-to-fallible memory to write this post. With no color > information to go on, I always guessed more in terms of blue > with gold lettering & trim instead of a bright green with > aluminum trim. In black and white photos, the trim did not > appear as bright as aluminum, so I thought bronze or brass > trim might have been the case, and the main color blue > because I think that color combination is a classic. > > So I'd like to know more about the short period of > streamlined steam on the DL&W. Yes, I'm curious abut them, > especially the 4-4-0. Anybody on the list that cares to > share info on the Lackawanna streamliners, like assignments, > modifications to the shrouding, etc? > > Mike Nickerson > California > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua K. Blay" > To: "EL" > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:51 PM > Subject: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =3175165578& > category=484 > > My birthday is next month should any of you feel so inclined. :) > > Joshua > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <402F0AA4.28770C2C_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <1076809889.402ed0a1c8340_@_www.joshuakblay.com> <012c01c3f37b$07d173c0$20295142@mrnickerson> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:59:00 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 Mike, If you are really interested I suggest that you pick up a copy of Jerry Segrue's book "The Merchant's Engines" Published by the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society. It's a soft cover book all about these engines and their history. You can order it for $24.95 + 6.95 Shipping & Handling from: ELHS Mr. Jay Held 10-10 Ellis Ave. Fair Lawn, NJ 07410 Make checks payable to the ELHS. Regards, Will Shultz Michael wrote: > > Thank you, Joshua, for your post because I'd been meaning to ask about the > Lackawanna streamlined steam locos. > > I'd seen pictures in black and white, probably in Carleton's book. My > Carleton is packed away so I have to use my all-to-fallible memory to write > this post. With no color information to go on, I always guessed more in > terms of blue with gold lettering & trim instead of a bright green with > aluminum trim. In black and white photos, the trim did not appear as bright > as aluminum, so I thought bronze or brass trim might have been the case, and > the main color blue because I think that color combination is a classic. > > So I'd like to know more about the short period of streamlined steam on the > DL&W. Yes, I'm curious abut them, especially the 4-4-0. Anybody on the > list that cares to share info on the Lackawanna streamliners, like > assignments, modifications to the shrouding, etc? > > Mike Nickerson > California > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: References: <200402141032.i1EAW0EE044270_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 01:58:49 -0600 From: "Rick Wargo" Subject: (erielack) Erie HO Steam Group, Can anyone recommend a good Erie HO steam engine? I don't have one yet and would like to get a good one. Thanks. Rick ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1194 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <410-220042015123443254_@_earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 07:34:43 -0500 From: "Philip Martin" Subject: Re: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" The airlines are thinking of cutting it down to one pilot, and putting in a "dead man" control; so if the pilot keels over, the brakes automatically go on the plain. Philip Martin martinpl3_@_earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: Philip Martin > To: Gary R. Kazin ; EL List > Date: 2/14/2004 7:00:16 PM > Subject: Re: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" > > Ever hear of "automatic pilot?" Good by. No pilot at all. > > Philip Martin > martinpl3_@_earthlink.net > Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Gary R. Kazin > > To: EL List > > Date: 2/11/2004 3:26:05 PM > > Subject: Re: (erielack) Off Topic, "Feather Beder" > > > > --- WSmith5957_@_aol.com wrote: > > > Why do you think the airlines have 2 men in the cockpit?????? > > > > Not that long ago, there were three. > > > > > > ===== > > Gary R. Kazin > > DL&W Milepost R35.7 > > Rockaway, New Jersey > > > > http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <7c.42320f77.2d60e5ac_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:09:32 EST From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) ELHS Archives auction item: Erie Map on eBay Please link to the following to see an Erie Railroad fold-out map up for bid being conducted on behalf of the ELHS Archives: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2225933262 Rich Behrendt ELHS #384 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:52:41 -0500 From: "Tom Schmieder" Subject: RE: (erielack) ELHS Archives auction item: Erie Map on eBay Speaking of ebay auctions, did anyone happen to catch this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2225865013&category=20232 What, is this guy smoking crack or do postcards really command prices like this? Tom Schmieder >From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com >Reply-To: RBehre8599_@_aol.com >To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net >Subject: (erielack) ELHS Archives auction item: Erie Map on eBay >Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:09:32 EST > >Please link to the following to see an Erie Railroad fold-out map up for >bid >being conducted on behalf of the ELHS Archives: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2225933262 > >Rich Behrendt >ELHS #384 > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Optimize your Internet experience to the max with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <402FA667.6090705_@_netsync.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:03:35 -0500 From: Michael Dickinson Subject: (erielack) ACF 2 bay covered hopper Gentlemen and Ladies. What is the best truck to use under one of these hopper. I believe that they are roller bearing trucks. The sprung truck that i am using are not staying on track well. I know that it is probably my trackwork. Thanks Mike Dickinson ELHS #837 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040215173456.MFHI8426.out003.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:34:54 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) ELHS Archives auction item: Erie Map on eBay I'll concede I've never seen that one before, but that IS a tad stiff. But to answer your question, there are postcards that DO get to that level. No more stupid than $1,600 for some brass steam engines, in the end. If you're a collector, you're a collector. Notice I said "more stupid." I'm not rationalizing $1,600 steam engines, either. SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Tom Schmieder > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:53 AM > To: RBehre8599_@_aol.com; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: RE: (erielack) ELHS Archives auction item: Erie Map on eBay > > Speaking of ebay auctions, did anyone happen to catch this one? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2225865013& > category=20232 > > What, is this guy smoking crack or do postcards really > command prices like this? > > Tom Schmieder > > > >From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com > >Reply-To: RBehre8599_@_aol.com > >To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > >Subject: (erielack) ELHS Archives auction item: Erie Map on eBay > >Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:09:32 EST > > > >Please link to the following to see an Erie Railroad fold-out map up > >for bid being conducted on behalf of the ELHS Archives: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ite m=2225933262 > > > >Rich Behrendt > >ELHS #384 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ _______________ > Optimize your Internet experience to the max with the new MSN > Premium Internet Software. > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direc t/01/ > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001701c3f3ed$51792b40$7954c840_@_b6x9501> References: <20040215173456.MFHI8426.out003.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:58:27 -0500 From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: (erielack) ELHS Archives auction item: Erie Map on eBay I took a look at the guys other auctions. He has many postcards starting from $2.95 to 3.75. I believe someone missed a decimal point. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001e01c3f3f1$c0058140$98b91842_@_YOURFF6EE6628B> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:30:09 -0500 From: "Joe Sakovitch" Subject: (erielack) pic To all, This is off the current subjects, but i found this photo at a local antique shop and i thought you all might enjoy a little steam action on the Starrucca viaduct. Nice "little" pusher heading back towards Susquehanna! Joe S. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001301c3f3f1$d2bf0db0$98b91842_@_YOURFF6EE6628B> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:30:44 -0500 From: "Joe Sakovitch" Subject: (erielack) Emailing: IM000221 NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-15-04 IM000221.jpg (image/jpeg, 62353 bytes) Your files are attached and ready to send with this message. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40DC_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:33:31 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 By the way, the new "Railfan & Railroad" has an ad for the book-like magazine "Locomotive Quarterly," which features an article on "DL&W Passenger Pacifics" - with a small photo of a streamstyled one. I've ordered it, and will let everyone know how it is. Past issues of this magazine are superb, so I have high hopes! - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael [mailto:michael4449_@_yahoo.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 11:20 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net; Joshua K. Blay > Subject: Re: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 > > > Thank you, Joshua, for your post because I'd been meaning to > ask about the Lackawanna streamlined steam locos. > > I'd seen pictures in black and white, probably in Carleton's > book. My Carleton is packed away so I have to use my > all-to-fallible memory to write this post. With no color > information to go on, I always guessed more in terms of blue > with gold lettering & trim instead of a bright green with > aluminum trim. In black and white photos, the trim did not > appear as bright as aluminum, so I thought bronze or brass > trim might have been the case, and the main color blue > because I think that color combination is a classic. > > So I'd like to know more about the short period of > streamlined steam on the DL&W. Yes, I'm curious abut them, > especially the 4-4-0. Anybody on the list that cares to > share info on the Lackawanna streamliners, like assignments, > modifications to the shrouding, etc? > > Mike Nickerson > California > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua K. Blay" > To: "EL" > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:51 PM > Subject: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=> 3175165578&category > > =484 > > My birthday is next month should any of you feel so inclined. :) > > Joshua > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040216020246.PNME1590.out012.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40DC_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:02:44 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 Asa Charter Subscriber to Locomotive Quarterly, I can tell you about this issue, which arrived last week. As always, there is a cover painting, this one of DL&W 1139, at Hoboken. "The Lackawanna Passenger Pacifics" runs from page 30 to 45. Three photos of Streamstyled Pacifics, plust a number of others. A number of famous names in the photo credits, Rob't F Collins, Raymond Brown, George Votava, F R Kern . . . The last shot is of 230, an 0-8-0 built from an Pacific 1178. All B&W, of course, and quite well printed, as is typical of Loco Quarterly. Other topics in this issue include UP Locomotives (Part one), Atlantic Coast Line power at Richmond, and An Alfred J Holck Sampler, which includes a sampling of B&M, B&O, KCS, MOP, and (thankfully ;^) ) a few ERIE shots at the end. SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of > Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul) > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 5:34 PM > To: 'Michael'; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net; Joshua K. Blay > Subject: RE: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 > > By the way, the new "Railfan & Railroad" has an ad for the > book-like magazine "Locomotive Quarterly," which features an > article on "DL&W Passenger Pacifics" - with a small photo of > a streamstyled one. I've ordered it, and will let everyone > know how it is. Past issues of this magazine are superb, so I > have high hopes! > > - Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael [mailto:michael4449_@_yahoo.com] > > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 11:20 PM > > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net; Joshua K. Blay > > Subject: Re: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 > > > > > > Thank you, Joshua, for your post because I'd been meaning > to ask about > > the Lackawanna streamlined steam locos. > > > > I'd seen pictures in black and white, probably in > Carleton's book. My > > Carleton is packed away so I have to use my all-to-fallible > memory to > > write this post. With no color information to go on, I always > > guessed more in terms of blue with gold lettering & trim > instead of a > > bright green with aluminum trim. In black and white > photos, the trim > > did not appear as bright as aluminum, so I thought bronze or brass > > trim might have been the case, and the main color blue > because I think > > that color combination is a classic. > > > > So I'd like to know more about the short period of > streamlined steam > > on the DL&W. Yes, I'm curious abut them, especially the 4-4-0. > > Anybody on the list that cares to share info on the Lackawanna > > streamliners, like assignments, modifications to the shrouding, etc? > > > > Mike Nickerson > > California > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joshua K. Blay" > > To: "EL" > > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:51 PM > > Subject: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 > > > > > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item => > > 3175165578&category > > > =484 > > > My birthday is next month should any of you feel so inclined. :) > > > Joshua > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <049c01c3f436$4c0ede40$0201a8c0_@_DFLXW121> References: <1076809889.402ed0a1c8340_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:40:50 -0500 From: "Jon Scaptura" Subject: Re: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 Right now, something like that would really lift my spirits as I recover from my tonsillectomy. :) Jon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua K. Blay" To: "EL" Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: (erielack) OMI DL&W #1123 | Check this out, the holiest of holy- | | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3175165578&category=484 | | My birthday is next month should any of you feel so inclined. :) | | -- | Joshua | http://www.joshuakblay.com | | | | | ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <146.220e709f.2d61956e_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:39:26 EST From: Hhaines_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Erie HO Steam Dear Rick: What era Erie, and what price range.? Brass or plastic? "Good" has many different definitions, and my defination keeps changing as time passes. I may someday own a brass engien, but I do not right now. The past few years have seen some high-end plastic models that include: The Bachmann Erie Decapod (2-10-0). It ws first leased and then used from 1920 through 1940 or so. They also ran on NYSW and other Erie lines up through 1947/49. They hauled mostly freight but sometimes passengers on the branches. I have seen them as low as $75 at train shows but ususally over $100. It pulls pretty good, and will negotiate an 18-inch radius curve. Life Like Prtoto 2000 Heritage series URSA Erie 0-8-0 was used for switching, transfer jobs, and some local freights. They moved cuts of passenger cars at major yards. Operation was from 1919 until the end of steam on Erie. This list has reports it does not pull as good as it could--but I've had one of mine haul 22+ (40 and 50-foot NMRA-weighted, steel wheel) cars up a 2.4 percent grade around a 30-inch radius curve. I forgot what the best price I saw is on these. The detail and paint is nice. The latest (and in my opinion "best" for the moment) plastic steam is the Broadway Limited Inc (BLI) Erie N-2 URSA Heavy Mikado 2-8-2 with sound. I have seen these (advance order) for $161 to $260, but since they are new, prices will vary. Another one of those URSA designs, they showed up on the Erie in 1919-1920, and stayed until 1950. Erie claimed that they were completely dieselized (for the main) in 1950, but there were some lines still with steam. The lsit recently reported 10-cars up a 2.5 percent grade. I mis-read it and thought they pulled 38 cars up grade, but it was on the flat. I tried 32 cars and was diappointed until I re-read the post. I lubed and ran mine some. A week later, I had it pull 28 cars (3 of them brass) up that 2.4 percent 30-inch radius curved incline. The sound was something else (and it does not have to top volume). The unit operates on DC and DCC. The unit was used in freight, including fast freight until the Berkshires came in 1927. These were good engines, and used in many different services. These were the only Mikados Erie regularly ran on some long distance passenger service. They helped out the K-5s, pulled milk trains, troop trains, were used as helpers and from what I can tell, did everything at one time or other. One drawback is the initial sticker prices--but the detail is good for as-delivered loco (prototype) until about 1943 when the 3203 got its feedwater heater. The Erie #3210 got its heater earlier. :Mantua (soon to be Model Power metal classics?) had a number of locomotives they sold for Erie, including a K-4B. Not as detailed, but a good runner, with smoke. I have seen them from $60, but new, I think they were $180 or so. IHC-Premier makes a Pacific (4-6-2) that looks like the K4, and goes for about $59-69. The K4 Pacifics were for passenger and fast freight, and lasted through on Erie to 1950 and on branches until 1954. Rivarossi makes a Heavy Pacific that can be modified to look like an Erie K-5 or K-5A. These units were similar to the URSA Heavy Pacifics (that were K-2s on Erie) and lasted until 1950 or so, but in less than first class passenger service. Rivarossi also makes an URSA Heavy Mikado that is close in looks to the BLI locomotive above. I have been able to find these for $80. If you want older era locomotives, some Mantua-Tycos can be modified. Bachmann also makes a "Baldwin generic ten-wheeler (4-6-0)," with the high boiler, largest wheel diameter being similar to the Erie G-15s of 1903-04 to their first major rebuild in 1923-1924 (except for one in 1914). Erie's had 69-70-inch diameter drivers, the model only 63-inches. I have more of a report on converting this into an Erie unit in a while. Howard Haines. . ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040216044822.VFLH25581.out001.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:48:19 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: (erielack) Slides on eBay There are several EL freight equipment slides up on eBay now. The seller is "mxdata" I had to add him to my favorite seller listings to find his stuff. Lots of other roads slides too, if you have more than one road to attend to. No financial interest, etc, etc. SGL ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1195 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001201c3f4a2$a3420cc0$dcd44b0c_@_pavilion> References: <200402161032.i1GAW0CS050436_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:35:38 -0800 From: "Blake D. Tatar" Subject: (erielack) Re: EL List Daily V3 #1195 Don't forget that Bowser makes a USRA heavy 2-10-2 that can be built as an Erie loco. Blake D. Tatar Custom painting, repairs and modifications of model railroad equipment. Brass a Specialty. E-mail : BDTatar_@_worldnet.att.net Website @ : www.BlakeDTatar.com All mail is scanned by Norton Internet Security prior to sending! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40E1_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 08:21:42 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Slides on eBay Hmm... It seems that Mr. "mxdata" is selling the Preston Cook collection, as many of these slides appear credit to Preston in the EL Color Guide... - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Schuyler Larrabee [mailto:vze7zm0q_@_verizon.net] > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:48 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: (erielack) Slides on eBay > > > There are several EL freight equipment slides up > on eBay now. > > The seller is "mxdata" > > I had to add him to my favorite seller listings to > find his stuff. Lots of other roads slides too, > if you have more than one road to attend to. > > No financial interest, etc, etc. > > SGL > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40310014.3090805_@_netscape.net> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40E1_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:38:28 -0500 From: Al Reibel Subject: Re: (erielack) Slides on eBay Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul) wrote: >Hmm... It seems that Mr. "mxdata" is selling the Preston Cook collection, as many of these slides appear credit to Preston in the EL Color Guide... > > - Paul > The seller might be Preston Cook himself- I bought a copy of EL Memories on Ebay quite a while back, and he was selling them. He was gracious enough even to sign my copy before he sent it! Al > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 13:04:16 -0500 (EST) From: "J. Henry Priebe Jr." Subject: (erielack) List archive search repaired Some of you have noticed for a while that the list archive search page at http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/lists/wilma.cgi/erielack-digest.archive hasn't returned recent hits. It started happening quite a while ago after I upgraded the software which handles the searching and I have been chasing the bug ever since. It was very hard to track down and had to do with an obscure path check which did not take into account a symbolic link to a directory which had changed some time ago. So it seems to work normally again. Henry J. Henry Priebe Jr. Blue Moon Internet Corp Network Administrator www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000301c3f4bb$93409210$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 13:34:56 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" Folks, Here are the results of the "gloss/semigloss/flat" paint controversy. For out-of-the-box, factory painted freight diesel locomotives: GLOSS: 12 votes SEMI-GLOSS: 12 votes FLAT: 15 votes Relatively speaking, it's a dead heat. - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:05:19 -0500 From: "Michael Dye" Subject: (erielack) Erie Steam Assignments List, Just a quick question that has come to mind after the recent steam model related postings. Just what portion of the Erie was cleared for the Berkshires to run on? It seems to me that I once read that the Berks were restricted from running west of Marion due to light bridges. Looking at the photos of the bridges at Decatur and Monterey, I could almost believe that as the main spans are of a rather spindly-looking truss design. However, considering some of the loads that I saw moving over the West End, it doesn't seem to stand up. Ideas? Thanks, Michael Dye, ELHS #1516 _________________________________________________________________ Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040217044538.GDNS8426.out003.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:45:29 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: (erielack) DL&W Tower, Overland http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =3176229715&category=484 For those of you who've always wanted one . . SGL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000e01c3f515$f95fcf70$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <20040217044538.GDNS8426.out003.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:22:02 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) DL&W Tower, Overland Ah yes, a "Lackawanna Elevated CROOSING Shanty" (see the box picture) Gotta love those Koreans... :) - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of > Schuyler Larrabee > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 11:45 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: (erielack) DL&W Tower, Overland > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3176229715& > category=484 > > For those of you who've always wanted one . . > > SGL > ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1196 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <26.44f5ee21.2d634bf3_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 05:50:27 EST From: Andrisd_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) FA-1&2 question Hello, I was wondering when, if ever, did the Erie/DL&W/EL break up the ABBA sets of FA's to run AB or simply A. Thanks Andy Cole ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <0153730F01A89948BD814A378C59BE75A7255C_@_us0366exmp.america.apci.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:22:07 -0500 From: "Larson,Martin A" Subject: Re: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" Yes, but you can look at it this way: Gloss: 12 votes Semi-Gloss and Flat: 27 votes (i.e not gloss) Marty Larson ELHS #3033 >> Here are the results of the "gloss/semigloss/flat" paint >>controversy. For out-of-the-box, factory painted freight diesel >>locomotives: >> GLOSS: 12 votes >> SEMI-GLOSS: 12 votes >> FLAT: 15 votes >>Relatively speaking, it's a dead heat. >> - Paul + ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040217083339.01afaaf0_@_64.136.28.166> References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:35:24 -0500 From: Ken Subject: (erielack) Activity in Rochester, IN >List, On my way back from Michigan yesterday, I drove south on U.S. 31 past Rochester. It appeared as if there were some rolling stock at the grain elevator just east of where the Erie Main ends at U.S. 31. Can anyone confirm that there is activity there? A visit last fall seemed to indicate that the track no longer was in use. Ken Bush ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40FD_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:59:26 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) FA-1&2 question Andy Cole asked: > Hello, I was wondering when, if ever, did the Erie/DL&W/EL > break up the ABBA > sets of FA's to run AB or simply A. Well, the DL&W never had FA's, so.... The Erie seemed to keep the FA's in matched sets - either ABA or ABBA. This practice appeared to continue, for the most part, until the EL merger. After a few years into the merger, the value of being able to use power in unmatched sets was realized, and the units were broken up. For the most part, by 1963 or so, the FA's were run in multiple with other MU-able units. The EMD F-units, however, would still be seen in matched sets from time to time (most famously, the "Bloom" train out of Scranton would often run with A-B-B-A F-units almost until Conrail) - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE40FE_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:00:18 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" And I've had other people write me with: Gloss and Semi-Gloss: 24 votes Flat (i.e., not gloss): 15 votes :) I'll let the manufacturers sort this one out! - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Larson,Martin A [mailto:LARSONMA_@_airproducts.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 8:22 AM > To: Erie Lackawanna Mailing List (E-mail) > Subject: Re: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" > > > > Yes, but you can look at it this way: > > Gloss: 12 votes > > Semi-Gloss and Flat: 27 votes > (i.e not gloss) > > Marty Larson > ELHS #3033 > > > >> Here are the results of the "gloss/semigloss/flat" > paint controversy. > >>For out-of-the-box, factory painted freight diesel > >>locomotives: > > >> GLOSS: 12 votes > >> SEMI-GLOSS: 12 votes > >> FLAT: 15 votes > > >>Relatively speaking, it's a dead heat. > > >> - Paul > > > + > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403229A5.37C87BFD_@_sprint.ca> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:48:05 -0400 From: A Samostie Subject: (erielack) DL&W Tower Preservation Dear Group, The current post about the Overland Models DL&W crossing shanty / tower got me thinking... Since the future of the crossing shanties in Norwich and Cortland has been assured, and work is (presumably) progressing on the Gravel Place tower... what about efforts to preserve other overlooked DL&W architectural gems? I recently noted that East Binghamton tower appears to be in relatively good shape. I'm not certain that Norfolk Southern would be receptive to the idea, but has any consideration been given to restoration / preservation of this one? What about others? Cheers, Alan ELHS #3178 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040217145937.41508.qmail_@_web40804.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <403229A5.37C87BFD_@_sprint.ca> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:59:37 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Stuy Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W Tower Preservation > work is (presumably) progressing on the Gravel Place > tower... what about efforts to preserve other > overlooked DL&W architectural gems? It is the tower at East Stroudsburg that is being preserved. It is several miles east of Gravel Place. Tim ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4108_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:38:09 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) DL&W Tower Preservation > Since the future of the crossing shanties in Norwich and > Cortland has been assured, and work is (presumably) > progressing on the Gravel Place tower... what about efforts > to preserve other overlooked DL&W architectural gems? I'd love to see Port Morris tower at least stabilized (and later, restored).... > I recently noted that East Binghamton tower appears to be in > relatively good shape. I'm not certain that Norfolk Southern > would be receptive to the idea, but has any consideration > been given to restoration / preservation of this one? What > about others? East Binghamton tower is not NS property -it's D&H/CP. I think they use it for MOW stuff now? There are shells of lots of DL&W towers out there - Greendell, Slateford Jct, Gravel Place, and up through the Poconos. The problem with the concrete towers is that most of them are gutted inside, and it won't be simple or inexpensive to reinstall an interior. - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE410D_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:59:40 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) FW: 4039 Boiler Badge Plate Hello all, Slightly off-topic, but I'm looking for someone who might be able to answer this question re: an Alco 0-6-0 steam locomotive. Please respond to me OFF-LIST - thanks! - Paul - ------------------------------------------ I'm trying to replicate the small, brass boiler badge plate that was bolted to 4039's backhead, just underneath the throttle stem, between the two washout plugs (at about crownsheet level) I have two "close-up" photos of the backhead that show the badge in place while the engine was operating, but unfortunately, the views are not focused on the plate itself, so it's very hard to read the wording. Any ideas on who we could contact about what info was on the plate ? Anybody you know that is big on ALCO steam ? The plate was rectangular, maybe about 3 or 4 inches wide by possibly 8 inches or so. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE410A_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:48:12 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) "EL Today" photos NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-17-04 DL-Tobyhanna.jpg (image/jpeg, 1479083 bytes) DL-Cresco.jpg (image/jpeg, 1519680 bytes) Thanks to lister Paul Graf for sharing these photos with us! This is the Delaware-Lackawanna Portland Turn (PT-98), heading east with three big Alcos up front - ex-EL C425 2461, followed by an ex-PC C636 and ex-CP M636. First shot has the lengthy train passing the Tobyhanna, PA tower, and the second shot has the power rolling past the restored station at Cresco, PA. Almost reminiscent of the EL, isn't it? - Paul <> <> Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ Lucent Technologies Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 Performance Test Team 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001201c3f581$87f25da0$aa394b43_@_y6p6m1> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4108_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:11:55 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W Tower Preservation The best tower is our Tobyhanna Tower. It has all of the original windows, the original brass hardware, and complete bay window desk with all drawers & doors intact. The tower was refurbished by a customer that was going to locate there, and I would say it is 80% complete, and still has its tin ceiling. Regards David MV - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" To: "'A Samostie'" ; Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 10:38 AM Subject: RE: (erielack) DL&W Tower Preservation > > Since the future of the crossing shanties in Norwich and > > Cortland has been assured, and work is (presumably) > > progressing on the Gravel Place tower... what about efforts > > to preserve other overlooked DL&W architectural gems? > > I'd love to see Port Morris tower at least stabilized (and later, restored).... > > > > > I recently noted that East Binghamton tower appears to be in > > relatively good shape. I'm not certain that Norfolk Southern > > would be receptive to the idea, but has any consideration > > been given to restoration / preservation of this one? What > > about others? > > > East Binghamton tower is not NS property -it's D&H/CP. I think they use it for MOW stuff now? > > There are shells of lots of DL&W towers out there - Greendell, Slateford Jct, Gravel Place, and up through the Poconos. The problem with the concrete towers is that most of them are gutted inside, and it won't be simple or inexpensive to reinstall an interior. > > - Paul > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4116_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:23:05 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) Question about EL covered hopper A good question from another list based on George Elwood's covered hopper roster on his site: >Also shown is EL 21455, possibly the last car in a series (21400-21454) of what was otherwise CF4460 Center Flows. There were some other EL CF4650 Center >Flows, 20100-20149, but 21455 just seems to make a big leap in size over the rest of the series. (Plate C vs. Plate B.) Anyone know what this one-off car was? Why only one? - Paul Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ Lucent Technologies Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 Performance Test Team 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040217185612.10002.qmail_@_web40801.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <001201c3f581$87f25da0$aa394b43_@_y6p6m1> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Stuy Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W Tower Preservation To steal a phrase from the DL&W, you could say that today's DL "Mile for Mile the most highly preserved railroad in America". Virtually every station between Slateford Jct. and Scranton still exists (sorry Mt. Pocono!) and most are under someone's care. Most (all?) of the towers still exist with one being completely preserved. And you have ALCOs along with occasional steam passenger trains. Not too shabby! Tim ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <021720041813.2864.7021_@_comcast.net> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:13:34 +0000 From: gjokra_@_comcast.net Subject: Re: (erielack) "EL Today" photos Thanks Paul,(both T.and G.) Great shots of home rails! I just don't miss the Poconos in snow, but trains in the Poconos in snow, that's a different story! Last time I was home I missed getting a shot from the Jubilee road , but caught the train at the "Frytown" crossing. CP units in the rain though, so I didn't scan them. Didn't have much time to train chase. Maybe this year, Lou? Across the dry lake (is it still dry)in the snow might be a great shot. (hint to anyone in the area) :-) Greg Okrasinski > NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. > To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL > into your web browser: > > > http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-17-04 > > DL-Tobyhanna.jpg (image/jpeg, 1479083 bytes) > DL-Cresco.jpg (image/jpeg, 1519680 bytes) > > Thanks to lister Paul Graf for sharing these photos with us! > > This is the Delaware-Lackawanna Portland Turn (PT-98), heading east with three > big Alcos up front - ex-EL C425 2461, followed by an ex-PC C636 and ex-CP M636. > First shot has the lengthy train passing the Tobyhanna, PA tower, and the second > shot has the power rolling past the restored station at Cresco, PA. Almost > reminiscent of the EL, isn't it? > > - Paul > > > <> <> > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > Lucent Technologies > Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > Performance Test Team > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > Whippany, NJ 07981 > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <196.25da97fd.2d63df11_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:18:09 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" In a message dated 2/17/2004 8:23:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, LARSONMA_@_airproducts.com writes: Yes, but you can look at it this way: Gloss: 12 votes Semi-Gloss and Flat: 27 votes (i.e not gloss) Marty Larson ELHS #3033 SORRY MARTY, BUT I DON'T THINK SO! I think anybody who was undecided in the semi area, would correctly lean towards gloss. Bob Bahrs ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40328B3B.30968F03_@_sprint.ca> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:44:27 -0400 From: A Samostie Subject: (erielack) Tower Preservation (continued) Dear Group, Glad to hear that there are more DL&W towers remaining than I was aware of. Three cheers for Steamtown and D-L for their efforts. Two additional questions: 1) Are there / were there any towers west of Binghamton? I'm assuming Elmira, Corning, and the approaches to Buffalo must have had a few interesting interlockings that would require towers. 2) What about Erie towers? Any preserved, or particularly significant? (I seem to recall hearing about Kent, OH... but what about others)? Cheers, Alan ELHS #3178 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40328EF4.AC5E5DA7_@_sprint.ca> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:00:20 -0400 From: A Samostie Subject: (erielack) MASSIVE List-Related Spam Problems Dear Group, My "net presence" is pretty much limited to participating in discussions on this list. However, because spambots are able to harvest e-mail addresses from the list archives, my participation has resulted in MASSIVE spam problems at my "root" e-mail address . Unfortunately, my ISP (Sprint Canada) does not permit me to "spoof" an e-mail address (e.g., by adding "NOSPAM" to the address, as some of you are able to do). So... now that my root e-mail address has been so badly "contaminated," I have been forced to discontinue using it for anything but erielack-related discussions. All incoming messages that do not contain (erielack) in the subject line will automatically go to the trash, unread. So, if anyone here needs to contact me off-list, please use , which has been keeping the spam at bay (so far). I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation. I appreciate your help. ARREST SPAM, Alan ELHS #3178 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000e01c3f5a1$f15c3e80$e8ee3841_@_y6p6m1> References: <40328B3B.30968F03_@_sprint.ca> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:03:56 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: Re: (erielack) Tower Preservation (continued) There was a wooden tower at the Lehigh Valley (EC&N) crossing in Elmira, a wooden one at Groveland, a wooden one at PRR Mt. Morris, and a concrete one at East Buffalo. Regards David MV - ----- Original Message ----- From: "A Samostie" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: (erielack) Tower Preservation (continued) > > Dear Group, > > Glad to hear that there are more DL&W towers remaining than I was aware > of. > Three cheers for Steamtown and D-L for their efforts. > > Two additional questions: > > 1) Are there / were there any towers west of Binghamton? > I'm assuming Elmira, Corning, and the approaches to Buffalo must have > had a few interesting interlockings that would require towers. > > 2) What about Erie towers? Any preserved, or particularly significant? > (I seem to recall hearing about Kent, OH... but what about others)? > > Cheers, > Alan > ELHS #3178 > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1d3.19f4cb0b.2d640a8a_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:23:38 EST From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W Tower Preservation(2) In a message dated 02/17/2004 9:48:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, samostie_@_engineer.com writes: > I recently noted that East Binghamton tower appears to be in relatively > good shape. I'm not certain that Norfolk Southern would be receptive to > the idea, but has any consideration been given to restoration / > preservation of this one? The last that I heard, CP was still utilizing the tower for their yard operations there (RS can correct me if I'm wrong...)...you can approach NS on the idea, but since they don't own it, I'm not sure how far you'd get... Rich Behrendt ELHS #384 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <79.22a0131e.2d640927_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:17:43 EST From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Tower Preservation (continued)(2) In a message dated 02/17/2004 4:45:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, quahog_@_sprint.ca writes: > 2) What about Erie towers? Any preserved, or particularly significant? > (I seem to recall hearing about Kent, OH... but what about others)? To my knowledge, there was never a tower in Kent, OH...there was (and still is) an old PRR (?) tower in Brady Lake, OH which stands several car lengths to the north of where the Erie/EL crosses over the ex-PRR (today NS) C&P line that runs between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Although it didn't control anything on the Erie, tt was here that a NYC line came down from Cleveland and joined the PRR at this location, which was the reason for the tower being here... Rich Behrendt ELHS #384 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <167.2ba5710c.2d6418a9_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:23:53 EST From: DLW1155_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) FA-1&2 question There were one or two rare occasions when a single FA got used to pull a commuter train during the summer in Erie days. I had vague recollections of seeing one in Caldwell as a very young boy on one of my visits there in the '50's with my late uncle, Ted Coen. Some people discounted this as possible confusion with a PA but two retired Erie men I've met confirmed that this had happened but was rare. They said in a pinch almost anything short of a yard switcher was used when steam heat wasn't needed. Al Holleuffer ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040218024212.OFDR23576.out002.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <196.25da97fd.2d63df11_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:42:05 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" Bob must be blinded by the glare of his glossy models. ;^) There is room for other interpretation, Bob. SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Dlw1el2_@_aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:18 PM > To: LARSONMA_@_airproducts.com > Cc: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" > > In a message dated 2/17/2004 8:23:28 AM Eastern Standard > Time, LARSONMA_@_airproducts.com writes: > Yes, but you can look at it this way: > > Gloss: 12 votes > > Semi-Gloss and Flat: 27 votes > (i.e not gloss) > > Marty Larson > ELHS #3033 > > > SORRY MARTY, BUT I DON'T THINK SO! > > I think anybody who was undecided in the semi area, would > correctly lean towards gloss. > > Bob Bahrs > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1ef.195874d8.2d64343a_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:21:30 EST From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Tower Preservation (continued)(2) In a message dated 02/17/2004 9:47:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, vze7zm0q_@_verizon.net writes: > Well, Rich answered you about Kent, but of course, > there IS (as one of my non-EL friends refers to > it) the fabled Marion tower. Shortened, moved > across the tracks, but preserved, man, preserved. ...with a working (well...sort of) model board. The dedicated members of the Marion Union Station Association have done a great job in slowly reactivating lights & circuits to make operating levers light up the board....pretty cool, and to my knowledge, unprecedented in tower restoration...not to many other places you can take your kid up and get a lesson (or the nearest thing to) in what it used to be like as a tower operator... Rich Behrendt ELHS #384 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <4910-22004231832835277_@_M2W078.mail2web.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:28:35 -0500 From: "tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com" Subject: RE: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) Well...ELvis, ELroy, ELbert, ELwood, ELliot...I think you get the idea!!! But I bet you have the only kid on the block with a GMY stroller. Anyway, congratulations and best of luck. The first 20 or so years are the hardest. After that it settles down some. Tom B Original Message: - ----------------- From: Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul) paultup_@_lucent.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:20:36 -0500 To: dlw_fan_@_hotmail.com, michael4449@yahoo.com, erielack@lists.railfan.net Subject: RE: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) You all assume it will be a girl. We don't know that! :) And I don't think the wife will go for "Elvira" :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Schmieder [mailto:dlw_fan_@_hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 1:33 PM > To: michael4449_@_yahoo.com; paultup@lucent.com; > erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Off-Topic, but interesting nevertheless... :) > > > How about ELaine? ELouise? ELeanor? ELvira? Notice > anything about those > names? ; ) > > Tom > > - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040218033209.5426.qmail_@_web60604.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1ef.195874d8.2d64343a_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:32:09 -0800 (PST) From: John Payne Subject: Re: (erielack) Tower Preservation (continued)(2) Gentlemen, The Western Connecticut Chapter of the NHRS has completely restored the 44th Interlocking Tower on the New Haven Railroad at South Norwalk, Connecticut (junction of the mainline and the Danbury branch). They claim it is the "only switch tower which provides an interactive display using "Armstrong" levers in the country!" The museum is "interactive" and worth the trip. Here's a link to their offical site, plenty of pictures. http://www.westctnrhs.org/ Click on "Tower Information", Tower Photos" and "Chapter Photos" Regards, John Payne Milford Connecticut - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <293580-22004231833915333_@_M2W096.mail2web.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:39:15 -0500 From: "tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com" Subject: Re:(erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR Fred Mertz was played by William Frawley. That song must have been pretty popular in its day. I worked with a guy in an ad agency 20 years ago(he'd be almost 80 now) who, knowing of my interest in railroads, used to sing that song whenever he saw me. Nice to finally find out the history. TAB Original Message: - ----------------- From: James Harr bnchmark_@_earthlink.net Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:30:53 -0500 To: erielack-digest_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: Re:(erielack) Question about a song title about the Erie Lackawanna RR List; For any of you movie buffs out there, a ways back I was watching the movie "The Fighting Seabees" starring John Wayne (and the fellow that played Fred Mertz on the I Love Lucy show); John Wayne is the boss of a gang of rough-necks that want to "join up and do their part", while entertaining some Navy-brass types at a party, Fred Mertz (?) leads the gang in a rousing rendition of "Where-a-you-work-a-John!" - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040218035543.UJOG8426.out003.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <1a3.207556c8.2d643bc8_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:55:36 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" > -----Original Message----- > From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com [mailto:Dlw1el2@aol.com] > > In a message dated 2/17/2004 9:43:21 PM Eastern Standard > Time, vze7zm0q_@_verizon.net writes: > > Bob must be blinded by the glare of his glossy > models. ;^) > > There is room for other interpretation, Bob. > > Schuyler > > Your FLAT out wrong. > > Bob Nope, only semi-convinced. SGL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1a3.207556c8.2d643bc8_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:53:44 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" In a message dated 2/17/2004 9:43:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, vze7zm0q_@_verizon.net writes: Bob must be blinded by the glare of his glossy models. ;^) There is room for other interpretation, Bob. Schuyler Your FLAT out wrong. Bob ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040218040421.WBUJ1634.out006.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <20040218035543.UJOG8426.out003.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:04:13 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com [mailto:Dlw1el2@aol.com] > > > > In a message dated 2/17/2004 9:43:21 PM Eastern > Standard > > Time, vze7zm0q_@_verizon.net writes: > > > > Bob must be blinded by the glare of his > glossy > > models. ;^) > > > > There is room for other interpretation, > Bob. > > > > Schuyler > > > > Your FLAT out wrong. > > > > Bob > > Nope, only semi-convinced. > > SGL I suppose, Bob, next you'll want to go to the matte on this . . . 8^) SGL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040218024604.VLII25581.out001.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <40328B3B.30968F03_@_sprint.ca> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:45:57 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Tower Preservation (continued) Alan samostie asked: > 2) What about Erie towers? Any preserved, or particularly > significant? > (I seem to recall hearing about Kent, OH... but what about others)? Well, Rich answered you about Kent, but of course, there IS (as one of my non-EL friends refers to it) the fabled Marion tower. Shortened, moved across the tracks, but preserved, man, preserved. Any others? SGL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <29459-4032E71F-5249_@_storefull-3315.bay.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Schuyler Larrabee" 's message of Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:04:13 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:16:31 -0500 (EST) From: Fish_76_@_webtv.net (Joseph D. Fisher) Subject: RE: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" While you two guys make a subtle attempt at satire, the rest of us list members have to WEATHER this exchange. :-P Joseph D. Fisher ELHS #3320 Generation X now has a voice http://www.conservativepunk.com ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1197 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40336EEB.6040503_@_squarework.com> References: <20040218033209.5426.qmail_@_web60604.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040218033209.5426.qmail_@_web60604.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:55:55 -0500 From: secbyte_@_squarework.com Subject: (erielack) Boxcars Greetings all. I am studying autocad in school and we need to select a 3d rendering project. To save me some time doing them from scratch I could really use some drawings of boxcars (EL preferred) Anyone have some that they are willing to let me use? Thanks George MAson ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1077118070.4033847680e39_@_webmail.dnaco.net> References: <20040218033209.5426.qmail_@_web60604.mail.yahoo.com> <40336EEB.6040503@squarework.com> In-Reply-To: <40336EEB.6040503_@_squarework.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:27:50 -0500 From: George Elwood Subject: Re: (erielack) Boxcars Check my WEB site under EL/Frt cars/caboose. Under the C300 cab is a ZIPPED DXF file of a Erie caboose. Quoting secbyte_@_squarework.com: > Greetings all. > > I am studying autocad in school and we need to select a 3d rendering project. > To save > me some time doing them from scratch I could really use some drawings of > boxcars (EL > preferred) Anyone have some that they are willing to let me use? > > Thanks > > George MAson > > > - -- George Elwood gelwood_@_dnaco.net http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood http://www.rr-fallenflags.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <163.2bc3741a.2d64e0c2_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:37:38 EST From: WSmith5957_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Some more thoughts on Rule 'G' Let us go back to the 'glorious days of yesteryear' as they used to say on the radio show 'The Lone Ranger'. These glorious days deal with the Erie-Lackawanna in Binghamton in the early 60s when you could sit on a yard engine in Conklin and see the smoke coming from the brakeshoes as the engineer on number 1 (Phoebe Snow) took some air to reduce speed for the curve at the Susquehanna River bridge which the train would cross before stopping at the Binghamton passenger station. Most of the men were a pretty goods bunch to work with. They were there to run the railroad to the best of their ability and get along with each other, but here & there were those with other agendas. One such was a fellow engineer who felt it was his 'divine mission' to punish those he percieved as evildoers. That is people who might look at a Playboy magazine while on duty or someone who might have had a beer prior to coming to work. His God was a cruel, vindictive, God....not the forgiving Savior of the New Testament and the engineer had acquired the nickname 'Creeping J---s'. Another engineer, Darryl Burkhart from Scranton, made up a poem as we rode back home on #40. It went like this: "You know Mackray? He likes to pray. He gets to shoot his gun that way." I laughed so hard I almost fell out of the coach seat. One of the jobs Mackray held was the 3 to 11 passenger drill which switched around the Binghamton passenger station and his fireman was an older man in his 60s off the O&W who was working out his final years on the EL until he could take the pension. I'm not sure, but I think his name was Owens....funny coincidence. At any rate, Mr. Owens showed up at 3PM & got on the EMD switcher. Mack, smelled BEER and - not saying anything- got off the engine & went upstairs to Ed Clancys' (trainmaster) office and told him "My firemans been drinking". Clancy followed him back downstairs & onto the engine where he asked Mr. Owens if he was drinking. Owens replied "No, not on the job, but he'd had a glass of beer and a cheese sandwich at the Mohawk Grill on Chenango Street for lunch." Clancy took him out of service then & there & gave him 10 days off discipline, explaining that the rule stated "THE USE OF INTOXICATING BEVERAGES BY PERSONS SUBJECT TO DUTY" not just ON duty. Mr Owens served his time and word got around about what happened. I had never seen anyone 'sent to Coventry' as the saying goes. I'd never heard the expression, but I saw it in action about a week later.... Mr. Mackray came into the crew room at the Conklin roundhouse. Several crews were there checking the board and signing up for duty when he came in. NOBODY spoke to him! Dead silence in the whole room and these were men who sat for hours in an enginecab with each other. After a few minutes hew said "I guess you guys all think I'm some kind of asshole, don't you?" From the rear of the room a faint "Yeah". Finally he left, almost tearing the door off its' hinges with a slam. As they say "The mills of the Gods grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small" and sure enough in a couple of months Mackray was in the barrel. He had brought in 2 Alco S-2s & left them on the sand track but failed to secure them or else forgot to shut off the generator field switch. As most of us know, these old Alcos with their slow-revving engines vibrate quite a bit at low RPMs and these 2 vibrated the throttle open and took off up what was called 'the runaround or backtrack' which joins the mainline at the riverbridge at the West end of the yard. When the runaways got there, an Eastbound freight occupied the mainline and these engines hit it in the middle. This time Mackray got the time off, so there IS a divine justice. I didn't realize the true seriousness of the matter until one of the towermen pointed out to me that if the freight train hadn't been occupying the main, the runaways would have continued uptown to the passenger station & maybe run over some passengers waiting for a train since no one would have been expecting them. After this, we heard a little less 'preaching' about the shortcomings of others. Regards to all, Walter E. Smith Employee # 102156 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:08:56 -0500 (EST) From: "J. Henry Priebe Jr." Subject: (erielack) Jervis Langdon Jr., 99, dies http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/obituaries/bal-md.ob.langdon17feb17,0,6674599.story Interesting tie to the EL of which I was unaware. Henry Jervis Langdon Jr., 99, B&O Railroad president known for innovations By Frederick N. Rasmussen Sun Staff Originally published February 17, 2004 Jervis Langdon Jr., one of the nation's foremost railroad executives, who had served as president of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad in its last year as an independent company, died of congestive heart failure yesterday at his home in Elmira, N.Y. He was 99. "You could say that Jervis Langdon's administration of the B&O in the postwar years ranks with that of Daniel Willard, an earlier B&O president, when the railroad was a caldron of innovation," said Herbert H. Harwood Jr., a retired CSX rail executive and railroad historian and author. "He never really got his due on the B&O because he was president for such a short time, relatively speaking. He was in a class of Young Turks who were railroad presidents at the time, and obviously the high point of his career was his years on the B&O," Mr. Harwood said. "He was absolutely ahead of his time and a visionary. He brought total honesty to the marketplace when he said that trucks were taking freight away from the railroads by undermining their rates. He brought operating efficiencies to the B&O that took it from a $31 million loss in 1961 to a $1.5 million profit in 1962," said Paul Reistrup, Amtrak's second president and former director of C&O-B&O passenger service. Mr. Langdon was born and raised in Elmira, where from his boyhood home he could listen to the sounds of locomotives and steam whistles as trains of the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western and Erie railroads made their way through the valley far below. His father was an executive of the Lackawanna Coal Co., which had been a part of the Lackawanna Railroad, and an uncle, Edward E. Loomis, was president of the Lehigh Valley Railroad. His interest in railroading began as a youth, riding aboard freight engines pulling trains between Elmira and Sayre, Pa. "My uncle advised me to be either an engineer or a lawyer if I wanted to succeed in railroading," he told The Sun in 1974. He earned his bachelor's degree in 1927 from Cornell University and a law degree from the Cornell law school in 1930. Mr. Langdon began his railroad career in 1931 with the Lehigh Valley in New York City, in the office of the foreign freight agent, and advanced to the railroad's legal department. He later served as counsel for the New York Central Railroad until 1941, when he was named assistant vice president of the Chesapeake and Ohio Railroad. During World War II, Mr. Langdon was a colonel with the Army Air Forces in China, Burma and India. He was assigned to the Air Transport Command, overseeing operations of the C-47s that flew over the Himalayas. After the war, he moved to Washington and served as special counsel for the major Southern railroads before the Interstate Commerce Commission on setting rail freight rates. After a few years as chairman of the Association of Southeastern Railroads, he joined the B&O as general counsel in 1956. He succeeded Howard E. Simpson as president of the railroad in 1961 at a time when it was falling under domination by the C&O and seeing loss of traffic and increased competition from trucks and barge lines. Described as a "Lincolnish" figure whose physical and intellectual presence could fill a room, he brought in new methods and younger people. "He tried to do three things, including innovative rate making, marketing research to see what the customer wanted and then providing the necessary service," Mr. Harwood said. Mr. Langdon stopped the erosion of rail traffic while initiating detailed cost-accounting procedures long common in other industries. He expanded piggyback service -- rail flatcars carrying truck trailers -- and implemented specialized, single-commodity trains to haul coal. He brought other technological advances such as early computers to the railroad. He was an unpretentious person who almost daily walked between his Guilford home and the B&O Building at Charles and Baltimore streets. He also walked to Camden Station and gently waved away anxious redcaps offering to carry his battered suitcase. When traveling on company business, he preferred a regular Pullman roomette over the railroad's luxurious private business cars. "We had always treated presidents of the B&O with an air of reverence, and then Jervis came along. He was a practical railroad man who was passionate about the people who worked for him," said E. Ray Lichty, a retired CSX vice president. By 1963, the C&O had obtained control of the B&O, and Mr. Langdon felt frustration as projects he envisioned were vetoed by C&O management. "He argued frequently and strenuously for the B&O approach to projects such as his marketing philosophy, which C&O management discounted," said William F. Howes, a retired CSX executive. In 1964, Mr. Langdon left to become president of the Rock Island Railroad. He was appointed trustee of the bankrupt Penn Central Railroad in 1970, and later was its president. He retired in 1976 after Penn Central became a major component of the newly created Conrail. "He was always a very humane person whose love for the B&O was never diminished. He always felt badly that the B&O had been literally shoved aside by the C&O. And when Conrail came along, he was very concerned what the outcome would be for Baltimore," said Helen Delich Bentley, a former Baltimore County congresswoman. Mr. Langdon -- who had also served on Amtrak's board -- maintained an interest in railroading to the end of his life. For years, he lived at Quarry Farm in Elmira, where Mark Twain, who was married to Mr. Langdon's great-aunt Olivia Langdon, spent summers and reportedly wrote Huckleberry Finn. Mr. Langdon always kept a picture of Twain relaxing with a cigar on the paneled wall of his office. Several years ago, he donated the home to Elmira College, which uses it to house visiting Twain scholars. Mr. Langdon also maintained a home on Gibson Island until 1989, and was a pilot who enjoyed flying his twin-engine Piper Aztec until his late 80s. Plans for services were incomplete yesterday. Surviving are his wife of 54 years, the former Irene Fortner; three sons, Jervis Langdon III of Potomac, Charles J. Langdon of Pasadena and Halsey W. Langdon of Linthicum; a daughter, Lee Kiesling of Elmira; two grandchildren; and a great-grandson. His marriage to the former Jean Bancroft ended in divorce. Copyright © 2004, The Baltimore Sun ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <200402182138.QAA17179_@_technet.tjhsst.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:37:42 -0500 From: "MONTGOMERY| ED" Subject: (erielack) POWER ASSIGNMENTS I was thinking about this the other day and thought I would bring it up for discussion. Did Lackawanna overpower commuter trains or did Erie underpower them. When I would watch trains going through Mountain View when the Boonton Line was THE BOONTON LINE it seemed like every Lackawanna passenger train that had more than 4 coaches either had a Trainmaster or two F3A's running back to back. Only the mid day trains and ones that ran on the rush hour fringes had a single GP7 on them. At the same time, Erie was running trains of equal length over the Greenwood Lake line with all its grades through Great Notch with a single RS2 or occassionally a PA. I don't think I ever saw two engines hauling any of these trains. After the merger it seems as though the Erie plan of one engine per train took over with either single E's or a Geep running the new Boonton Greenwood Lake route. It appears there were different ideas on power. Any thoughts? Ed Montgomery ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040218235644.24848.qmail_@_web13601.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <200402181032.i1IAW1Dk047856_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:56:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Maloney Subject: (erielack) Boonton Line Rail Rip-Up Looks like there is a crew working on ripping up the _really old_ rail lead and yard in Boonton. It appears that this is the yard lead that went from the Drew/PVO property, under the Wooton St. bridge, to a totally overgrown 2 or more track yard. The last couple of days I've noticed a small backhoe the other side of the tracks, behind the Boonton A&P. It was slowly removing the years of growth and revealed the rails. Tonight, however, it looks like they have all been ripped up. It doesn't look like any of the current Boonton line is affected. - -Mike M. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003401c3f685$0297ec60$bd6cd7a8_@_default> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:09:21 -0500 From: David Green Subject: Fw: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Green" To: "Joseph D. Fisher" Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 8:08 PM Subject: Re: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" > People in gloss houses shouldn't throw stones... > > I know, droll, but I couldn't resist. > > - Dave G. ELHS #1366 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joseph D. Fisher" > To: "Schuyler Larrabee" > Cc: "'Schuyler Larrabee'" ; > ; ; ; > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:16 PM > Subject: RE: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" > > > > While you two guys make a subtle attempt at satire, the rest of us list > > members have to WEATHER this exchange. > > > > :-P > > > > Joseph D. Fisher > > ELHS #3320 > > > > Generation X now has a voice > > http://www.conservativepunk.com > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <63340-22004241922544361_@_M2W092.mail2web.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:25:44 -0500 From: "tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W Tower Preservation(2) As far as I know, the tower is not being used for any current CP operations, and hasn't been used for at least 10 years. The yardmasters are in the top floor of the shop building, on the south end, overlooking the yard. I don't know how far you'd get with CP, but given their reluctance to let non employees on the property, it doesn't look likely that you would be able to get very far with an on site restoration. If someone could offer CP enough money to buy it, and then move it, they might go for it. Tom B Original Message: - ----------------- From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:23:38 -0500 (EST) To: samostie_@_engineer.com, erielack@lists.railfan.net Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W Tower Preservation(2) In a message dated 02/17/2004 9:48:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, samostie_@_engineer.com writes: > I recently noted that East Binghamton tower appears to be in relatively > good shape. I'm not certain that Norfolk Southern would be receptive to > the idea, but has any consideration been given to restoration / > preservation of this one? The last that I heard, CP was still utilizing the tower for their yard operations there (RS can correct me if I'm wrong...)...you can approach NS on the idea, but since they don't own it, I'm not sure how far you'd get... Rich Behrendt ELHS #384 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003801c3f692$af2f8110$0200a8c0_@_none> References: <163.2bc3741a.2d64e0c2_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:47:14 -0600 From: "Bill Weibel" Subject: Re: (erielack) Some more thoughts on Rule 'G' Great story,, Tell me did you ever work Scranton Easy, in particular the EB pusher jobs. They could be any / all combination of engines working after shopping, or twin FT Cabs or later baldwin road switchers. I never caught the baldwin road switchers, but those FT's made great "snowplows" returning light to Scranton. Bill ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <005b01c3f694$1a7c6ae0$0200a8c0_@_none> References: <200402182138.QAA17179_@_technet.tjhsst.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:57:23 -0600 From: "Bill Weibel" Subject: Re: (erielack) POWER ASSIGNMENTS I don't know about Hoboken assignments, but the DL&W in Scranton and the Erie on the Wyoming Div. alotted about the same amount of power (DLW 4 Funits 3TrainMaster) (Erie 4 GP7)to their mainline freights . Not counting pushers . Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "MONTGOMERY| ED" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:37 PM Subject: (erielack) POWER ASSIGNMENTS > I was thinking about this the other day and thought I would bring it > up for discussion. Did Lackawanna overpower commuter trains or > did Erie underpower them. > > When I would watch trains going through Mountain View when the > Boonton Line was THE BOONTON LINE it seemed like every > Lackawanna passenger train that had more than 4 coaches either > had a Trainmaster or two F3A's running back to back. Only the > mid day trains and ones that ran on the rush hour fringes had a > single GP7 on them. At the same time, Erie was running trains of > equal length over the Greenwood Lake line with all its grades > through Great Notch with a single RS2 or occassionally a PA. I > don't think I ever saw two engines hauling any of these trains. After > the merger it seems as though the Erie plan of one engine per train > took over with either single E's or a Geep running the new Boonton > Greenwood Lake route. It appears there were different ideas on > power. > > Any thoughts? > > Ed Montgomery > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <57050-22004241925911777_@_M2W096.mail2web.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:59:11 -0500 From: "tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com" Subject: (erielack) FW: Fwd: [hudsonriverrail] Oak Island Report This came off the hudson river rail list the other day. Looks like Oak Island is the SD45-2 capital of the world; 5 of them there at the same time. Probably more ex EL units here than anywhere. TAB > Subject: [hudsonriverrail] Oak Island Report > > This just in, over the cellphone from Oak Island > Yard: > > The following are all sitting around/working at/out > of Oak Island unless > otherwise noted. Sorry I don't know whats going out > on what..... > > NS SD-50/60 standard 6715 (CR Canopener paint) > NS SD-45-2 1702 in fresh ns horse head > NS SD-45-2 1701 (CR Canopener paint) > CSXT SD-45-2 (CR Quality Paint) 8976 > CSXT SD-45-2 (CR Quality) 8973 > NS SD-45-2 1704 (CR Quality) > CSXT GP-15-1 1543 former CR now in Bridght Future > CSXT SD-50 Bright Future 8562 > NS C-44-9W 9567 > > CEFX sd-40-2 (Grey Ghost) 3111 > CSXT GP-38/40-2 2649 faded bf > CSXT (Ex Monangahella Super 7) B-23-7R 3187 in CR > Quality > > HLCX ex. BN SD-40-2 7201 > CSXT Dark Future C-40-8W 7800 > 4 UP's, one of which was the 9820, with WINGS, and > the other 2 were > SD-70-M's.... > > Also, NS Horsehead SD-1001 #2103. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000001c3f69f$3d85d5c0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:17:08 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: (erielack) FW: DL&W HO steam modelling Can anyone help Glen out here? - Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Glen Larimer [mailto:gscclarimer_@_earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 10:29 PM To: paultup_@_optonline.net Subject: DL&W HO steam modelling Let me first say your site has been an excellent source for me to find information about the Lackawanna by contacting others with my interests. I wondered if you could help me out with a 4-8-4 Pocono kitbash I'm attempting (or could direct me to someone for help). I started with a Bachmann Niagara and obviously the centipede-style tender isn't going to be correct! I'm looking for a corret DL&W tender, or an idea for something close to rework to replace the Bachmann tender. Thanks for any help you can provide! Glen Larimer Royersford, PA ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <40344B97.000004.33715_@_DONS PC> References: <000001c3f69f$3d85d5c0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:37:27 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Donald E Kern Jr" Subject: Re: (erielack) FW: DL&W HO steam modelling BackGrnd.jpg (image/jpeg, 1438 bytes) Sender: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net Precedence: normal Reply-To: "Donald E Kern Jr" If you remove the water scoop a NYC Hudson Tender is about as close as anything without doing an Absolute Scratchbuild - -------Original Message------- From: Paul R. Tupaczewski Date: 02/18/04 23:19:45 To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: (erielack) FW: DL&W HO steam modelling Can anyone help Glen out here? - Paul - -----Original Message----- From: Glen Larimer [mailto:gscclarimer_@_earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 10:29 PM To: paultup_@_optonline.net Subject: DL&W HO steam modelling Let me first say your site has been an excellent source for me to find information about the Lackawanna by contacting others with my interests. I wondered if you could help me out with a 4-8-4 Pocono kitbash I'm attempting (or could direct me to someone for help). I started with a Bachmann Niagara and obviously the centipede-style tender isn't going to be correct! I'm looking for a corret DL&W tender, or an idea for something close to rework to replace the Bachmann tender. Thanks for any help you can provide! Glen Larimer Royersford, PA - --------------Boundary-00=_GYGB6RO0000000000000 ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1198 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4138_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:45:26 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Boonton Line Rail Rip-Up > Looks like there is a crew working on ripping up the > _really old_ rail lead and yard in Boonton. It > appears that this is the yard lead that went from the > Drew/PVO property, under the Wooton St. bridge, to a > totally overgrown 2 or more track yard. ACK! Actually, this track is one of the former DL&W mains, which later became a very long yard lead in EL years. That yard (I believe it was/is a 4 track yard) is being reopened for service for the new customer in town. The track west of Wootton St. is torn up now? Wow, I'm glad I had the dumb foresight to shoot it when I was up there two weeks ago (will post the photo over the weekend) > The last couple of days I've noticed a small backhoe > the other side of the tracks, behind the Boonton A&P. > It was slowly removing the years of growth and > revealed the rails. Tonight, however, it looks like > they have all been ripped up. It doesn't look like > any of the current Boonton line is affected. This is all track re-work for a new freight customer in Boonton. - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE4139_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:51:03 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) POWER ASSIGNMENTS Perhaps the DL&W has a tighter schedule to maintain, and the extra horsepower provided the speed needed to meet the schedule? - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: MONTGOMERY| ED [mailto:emontgom_@_LAN.TJHSST.EDU] > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 4:38 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: (erielack) POWER ASSIGNMENTS > > > I was thinking about this the other day and thought I would bring it > up for discussion. Did Lackawanna overpower commuter trains or > did Erie underpower them. > > When I would watch trains going through Mountain View when the > Boonton Line was THE BOONTON LINE it seemed like every > Lackawanna passenger train that had more than 4 coaches either > had a Trainmaster or two F3A's running back to back. Only the > mid day trains and ones that ran on the rush hour fringes had a > single GP7 on them. At the same time, Erie was running trains of > equal length over the Greenwood Lake line with all its grades > through Great Notch with a single RS2 or occassionally a PA. I > don't think I ever saw two engines hauling any of these > trains. After > the merger it seems as though the Erie plan of one engine per train > took over with either single E's or a Geep running the new Boonton > Greenwood Lake route. It appears there were different ideas on > power. > > Any thoughts? > > Ed Montgomery > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200402191032.i1JAW0ED011502_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:06:09 -0500 From: "Gerry Babyok" Subject: (erielack) thoughts on Rule 'G' Walt, your stories of the early EL are great. I have been saving every one. You aught to write a book! Gerry Babyok ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040219153031.3295.qmail_@_web40811.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:30:31 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Stuy Subject: (erielack) Rare Phoebe Snow Safari menus for sale NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-19-04 E_PS1.jpg (image/pjpeg, 25070 bytes) E_PS2.jpg (image/pjpeg, 23719 bytes) The ELDCPS has picked up several unique and rare menus that we can offer to the EL list. This menu dates from October 6, 1969 and was for dinner on the 15th Safari of the Phoebe Snow Club, which ran from Hoboken to Chicago for the annual meeting of the Purchases and Materials Management Division of the American Association of Railroads. This train had 8 sleeping cars (some leased from Penn Central), the two Budd diners, lounge 752 and Tavern-Lounge Car 790. This was the finest EL menu ever issued. Dinner started with Maine Lobster Bisque and Spiced Watermelon Rind, then baked chicken or Florida Pompano or Boneless Sirloin Steak for the main course, and finished off with banana stuffed baked apple. This menu is a lot larger than any of the other EL-era menus. This train was really the last great EL passenger train as the Lake Cities would be terminated less than one month later. They are available for $25 each, postage included. If you would like to reserve one, email me off-list. I have attached two scans of these menus but they don't show the nice maroon print on grey background very well. As always, the proceeds will go towards the restoration of EL diner 741. Thanks, Tim Stuy Secretary - ELDCPS ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1ab.2082092d.2d665ccd_@_aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:39:09 EST From: Hhaines_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Erie 3300 series assignments 19 February, 2004 Erie 3300-series assignments Dear list and all: My computer seems to have eaten the original email. The question related to restrictions and service of Erie's Class S Berkshire 3300s, and whether any operated west of Marion, Ohio. Eire's Berkshires were large, using 70-inch or 70.8-inch drivers. Reading in Carleton's The Erie Railroad Story, I discovered that the design was the outgrowth of NYC Class H-10 URSA Heavy Mikado, or as we'd say it today, a Heavy URSA Mike on steroids. If taken a step farther, adding another set of drivers, the locomotive became a Texas and Pacific 2-10-4, another design on the drawing boards for Erie at one time. Page 38 and 39 of Carleton's 1988 book has pictures of Class S-2 (3327 at Chicago in 1947, and 3343 both listed as west end engines as they did not have train control equipment. Page 39 shows Class S-4 #3395 (1941) and #3402 (1939) also operating as west end engines. So we know they went West of Marion. Other photos in that book show them in or enroute to Buffalo and Cleveland (page 30, Erie Memories). They were used on freight, mail, and passenger trains, as well as helpers-all pictured. The Staufer-Wesley 1970 book ERIE POWER (page 189 top) describes the 3300s as being able to do it all from Jersey City to Chicago. Ed Crist wrote (on page 189) that fielding the new Berkshire locomotives required lengthening of turntables, rebuilding of track and strengthening of bridges (sidebar, page 103, Erie Memories). Crist gives more information that Class S-1s and S-2s spent most of their careers between Marion to Hornell, with some running to Port Jervis. The exception in Class S-2 was #3342 that was (the only S-2) equipped with ATS train control equipment and a tender booster. Class S Berkshires were given rights to run onto NYSW at Passaic Junction to Little Ferry, carrying coal for the Edgewater coal dumper. After delivery, some S-1s were fitted with ATS to run east. (Gee, I can run one at Passaic Junction!) All Class S-3 locomotives were delivered with ATS and were the main power between Hornell and Port Jervis (page 97). The Berkshires did work the Kent second subdivision (Crist, page 20), with photos taken in Dayton and N Lewisburg, but there may have been restrictions around Cincinnati, as nothing I have viewed or read had them listed there. I would need an older timetable than I have. I hope this helps. I did this as the utility company is tearing apart my wood fence to add another dead-man for their new poles on their twin 69 kV power lines that turn at my backyard after crossing the MRL main line. I might even have fewer lines cutting across my railroad pictures. Howard Haines ELHS #1447 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <15c.2d80d8d3.2d666401_@_aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:09:53 EST From: RAILDATA_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Erie 3300 series assignments I have a poor snapshot I took of an Erie 2-8-4 operating through Scranton on the D&H. For the most part all I ever saw there were the USRA 2-10-2s This would have been around 1946 /47 when the mainline had pretty much been deiselized. Never saw one on the Erie & Wyoming. Chuck Yungkurth Boulder CO ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040219202722.10416.qmail_@_web41312.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:27:22 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Young Subject: (erielack) 3300's All the berks had the run of Erie main westward all the way into Chicago on the C&WI and were even cleared for transfer service to Clearing Yard, Barr Yard and ATSF"s Yard ( can't think of the name right now). I have shots of the engines at 47th street yards of the C&WI being serviced including a couple of shots of Erie 2-10-2 there after transfer runs from Hammond. If you look closely at an EE timetable it will list ALL locomotive restrictions there. Primarily listed are restrictions onto sidings, spur tracks and industrial complexes due to wieght/ axle loadings, track conditions , overhead/curveture/side clearances. It will list what locomotives are able to enter those pieces of track and if and how many idler cars can be used to service those industries. I also have some temporary ( Speed, size / weight ) restrictions issued by the MOW as train orders for passing sidings w/wo bridges for what ever reasons ( washout/ undercutting damage etc..) As far as east end info you guys have a better handle on that than myself. Until I joined this board I always thought the Erie fell off the face of the earth after crossong the Ohio / PA. boarder or at least went into staging behind scenery. :^) Rich Y ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040219213723.61116.qmail_@_web40806.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:37:23 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Stuy Subject: (erielack) News on the DL&W 952 http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10990787&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=455154&rfi=6 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1077227694.403530af04930_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: <20040219213723.61116.qmail_@_web40806.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040219213723.61116.qmail_@_web40806.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:54:55 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: Re: (erielack) News on the DL&W 952 I have always dreamed of hitting the lottery, and not long after #952 would be on her way back to Scranton. Trouble is now that she's restored (cosmeticlly, but not accurately) and under cover so I don't think the care issue is not really a factor anymore. #565 (at STEA already) is now in worse condition than #952!!! - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting Tim Stuy : > http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm? newsid=10990787&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=455154&rfi=6 > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040219234837.6BC323E25_@_xprdmailfe6.nwk.excite.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:48:37 -0500 (EST) From: "" Subject: RE: (erielack) POWER ASSIGNMENTS There was one westbound train on the Erie side that had 7 or 8 coaches. For several years this was run with 2 RS units. I'm not so sure this was for extra power as this consist was was split into 2 seperate trains for the morning inbound rush. The engines were run elephant style which made it interesting when turning the power in Wanaque. The engines had to be turned individually as the tail track of the wye was only long enough for one loco. The road crew would turn one and the hostler stationed at Wanaque would turn the other. My grandparents lived near the Wanaque yard and as a wide-eyed 12 year old I was invited to ride around the wye on several occasions. George Sarasota Fl. --- On Wed 02/18, MONTGOMERY| ED < emontgom_@_LAN.TJHSST.EDU > wrote: From: MONTGOMERY| ED [mailto: emontgom_@_LAN.TJHSST.EDU] To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:37:42 -0500 Subject: (erielack) POWER ASSIGNMENTS I was thinking about this the other day and thought I would bring it up for discussion. Did Lackawanna overpower commuter trains or did Erie underpower them _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <147710-2200425204933538_@_M2W086.mail2web.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:09:33 -0500 From: "tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com" Subject: RE: (erielack) 3300's The ATSF yard is Corwith. It's on the west side between 47th Street and what is now the Stevenson Expressway(I 55). The south end of Corwith leads into the GTW and their Elsdon Yard, and connections to the BRC and IHB. TAB Original Message: - ----------------- From: Rich Young ryoungceo_@_yahoo.com Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:27:22 -0800 (PST) To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: (erielack) 3300's All the berks had the run of Erie main westward all the way into Chicago on the C&WI and were even cleared for transfer service to Clearing Yard, Barr Yard and ATSF"s Yard ( can't think of the name right now). I have shots of the engines at 47th street yards of the C&WI being serviced including a couple of shots of Erie 2-10-2 there after transfer runs from Hammond. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1077034269.40323d1d08c61_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: <20040217044538.GDNS8426.out003.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <20040217044538.GDNS8426.out003.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:11:09 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W Tower, Overland I have one of these myself that is now looking for a home because the ones that Micronart produces are better suited for the cabin here in Homer that I am looking to model. Contact off list if interested. - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting Schuyler Larrabee : > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item > =3176229715&category=484 > > For those of you who've always wanted one . . > > SGL > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:51:48 EST From: DLW1155_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Check out http://www.locopage.net/rai-2068.jpg Check out the color scheme on this Uboat!!! I wonder where they got the idea for it? It doesn't take much guessing to figure it out!! Al HolleufferClick here: http://www.locopage.net/rai-2068.jpg ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1199 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 05:50:09 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Check out http://www.locopage.net/rai-2068.jpg http://www.locopage.net/rai-2068.jpg WOW The Gloss shine is beautiful. :) Must be the film thats defective. Bob ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <01C3F78D.F123A3C0_@_default> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:42:13 -0500 From: Paul Stumpff Subject: (erielack) NS trackage rights on WNY&P List: You probably heard this already, I get digests, so sometimes I hear it after you. NS is officially getting trackage rights over former E-L, probably for coal trains now going to former NKP that require extra movements to go from NS' Youngstown line to the former NKP to go east. Here was link from LA&L Yahoo Group: http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/6084f194b67ca1c4852567d9005751dc/ 82da106a15010c7785256e3e00585fcc/$FILE/210084.pdf Paul S. Geneva, OH [where we will miss those extra movements] begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C,-`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0_@_36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`/ $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````4P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&5R:65L86-K0&QIW6*F_)I%A M8WP1V+?-H(!=5,I\```>`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````$@`` M`'5RL"@P!0$P-4`@!C: K ?,C4U#P* "H$-L0M@ M;F2P_@_2<0@9Q(`(&1I'^ 68+)S'Z!S;R"A!X!T!W/3 M'\ >@B!I!4!A`8 $D-0@>0A@+AS<3_@_7P'P'R;PW0:6,',1Y1'^$A($L:H![0 M<@#0:V$?X"#9!1!G:"!P(_!V(E$"$,9R!X %P$4M3!^@'?=])H$@!: '0"4B M"X $(&YR;P?@9V\D\R# )H5.-$M0'M%A!4 7H'%UHFD7H"!E>"4Q( 1_@__R9 M!X ", 0@*7$I$"9P`V%](Y$G':(:H!9@*. #H&S_"X EH"EQ'N EH"FJ+#,> MD&T68"X=-_@_J%2 20):!W"R^@+;)K+'1,029,41V@86AO(,!'`V!UKG Q+CAP M9&8SCQQ@'-Q081@/,V['?$6<&,%0 J%%L$`1K ``P`0$ `````# M`!$0`0```$ `!S# G!?1MO?#`4 `"## G!?1MO?#`1X`/0`!`````0`````` ,```#``TT_3<``(08 ` end ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040220152429.62588.qmail_@_web40812.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:24:29 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Stuy Subject: (erielack) Question about EL station clocks Back in the early 1980's, the B&O Museum Store was selling off the railroad's inventory of station clocks. Each had a sticker inside saying they were approved by the clock and watch inspector of the B&O. They were, of course beautiful and I wish I had bought one then. Did the Erie or the DL&W have a "standard" station clock? Does anyone have one or at least maybe a picture of one in a station? I assume there were clock/watch inspectors in Hoboken, Jersey City, Scranton, etc.? Any info on this topic would be appreciated. Tim ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:55:08 EST From: ELdispatcher_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about EL station clocks Yes, EL did at one time have such clocks. However several officials knowing the value of the clocks managed to clean out most of the stations on the New York Division and took them. Never to be seen again. I think this followed the rule book change in 1964. Only a few clocks remained after that. The employees timetable noted where standard clocks were available for employees to compare time. EL did at one time have a signal (from the government) sent over the dispatchers wire at noon each day to give the correct time to those it applied. Rich Pennisi ELHS # 615 and former train dispatcher in Hoboken ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <001a01c3f7d4$56451040$ac3df7a5_@_y6p6m1> References: <20040220152429.62588.qmail_@_web40812.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:09:42 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about EL station clocks Dansville MP 318.6 had a Seth Thomas wall clock which was there until the end in August 1962. I do not know where it went? Also the DL on the Buffalo Division had an operable telegraph keys. The Dansville key & sounder luckily reside in my collection, as my Uncle was the last Agent-Operator at Dansville. The telegraph line worked with the "OPEN" block line phones, sort of an open line that was always moniorted by the dispatcher for the "OSing" of trains, but if you wanted to call station to station you would use the telegraph key to "ring" you fellow agent-operator & then he would go to the block phone & talk to you. Simpler times before radios & cell phones! Regards David MV - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Stuy" To: "EL List" Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:24 AM Subject: (erielack) Question about EL station clocks > Back in the early 1980's, the B&O Museum Store was > selling off the railroad's inventory of station > clocks. Each had a sticker inside saying they were > approved by the clock and watch inspector of the B&O. > They were, of course beautiful and I wish I had bought > one then. > > Did the Erie or the DL&W have a "standard" station > clock? Does anyone have one or at least maybe a > picture of one in a station? I assume there were > clock/watch inspectors in Hoboken, Jersey City, > Scranton, etc.? > > Any info on this topic would be appreciated. > > Tim ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1077298911.403646dfbbfef_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: <20040220152429.62588.qmail_@_web40812.mail.yahoo.com> <001a01c3f7d4$56451040$ac3df7a5@y6p6m1> In-Reply-To: <001a01c3f7d4$56451040$ac3df7a5_@_y6p6m1> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:41:51 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: Re: (erielack) Question about EL station clocks I once read that there was a clock in the Bingmaton station that belonged to the manager of the S&U in the DL&W era before the S&U became part of the Scranton division. I believe it was presented to him? I wonder where that clock has ended up. - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting "David J. Monte Verde" : > Dansville MP 318.6 had a Seth Thomas wall clock which was there until the > end in August 1962. I do not know where it went? > Also the DL on the Buffalo Division had an operable telegraph keys. The > Dansville key & sounder luckily reside in my collection, as my Uncle was the > last Agent-Operator at Dansville. The telegraph line worked with the "OPEN" > block line phones, sort of an open line that was always moniorted by the > dispatcher for the "OSing" of trains, but if you wanted to call station to > station you would use the telegraph key to "ring" you fellow agent-operator > & then he would go to the block phone & talk to you. Simpler times before > radios & cell phones! > > Regards David MV > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Stuy" > To: "EL List" > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:24 AM > Subject: (erielack) Question about EL station clocks > > > > Back in the early 1980's, the B&O Museum Store was > > selling off the railroad's inventory of station > > clocks. Each had a sticker inside saying they were > > approved by the clock and watch inspector of the B&O. > > They were, of course beautiful and I wish I had bought > > one then. > > > > Did the Erie or the DL&W have a "standard" station > > clock? Does anyone have one or at least maybe a > > picture of one in a station? I assume there were > > clock/watch inspectors in Hoboken, Jersey City, > > Scranton, etc.? > > > > Any info on this topic would be appreciated. > > > > Tim > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <4036CC51.1010309_@_sprint.ca> References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:11:13 -0400 From: A Samostie Subject: Re: (erielack) Check out http://www.locopage.net/rai-2068.jpg Dear Group, If I'm not mistaken, the nose emblem indicates that this unit is in service on Iranian National Railways (which experienced a tragic runaway incident this past week). I do like the "true DL&W" paint scheme (also used by Algoma Central) rather than the "simplified" GMY striping used by the post-merger EL on everything but cab units. The maroon and yellow colours on the Iranian unit "look right," too. I have yet to attempt to paint the "true DL&W" scheme on a hood unit model, though; the complexities of masking and painting the curved maroon stripes on the angular surfaces of a hood unit have kept me from pursuing the project. Cheers, Alan ELHS #3178 DLW1155_@_aol.com wrote: > Check out the color scheme on this Uboat!!! I wonder where they got the idea > for it? It doesn't take much guessing to figure it out!! > > Al HolleufferClick here: http://www.locopage.net/rai-2068.jpg > > ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1200 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <200402211129.i1LBTme30015_@_web8.systems.townnews.com> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 05:29:48 -0600 From: Damion_@_web8.systems.townnews.com Subject: (erielack) E-mail-A-Friend: NS gains trackage rights over WNY&P NS gains trackage rights over WNY&P HORNELL - Perhaps the P in WNY&P should stand for Phoenix. Like the mythical bird that rises from its own ashes, a long-neglected railroad line from Hornell to Meadville, Pa., will soon see regular traffic. For more of this story, click on or type the URL below: http://www.eveningtribune.com/articles/2004/02/20/news/news01.txt ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <008001c3f8ac$b137e6c0$706cd7a8_@_default> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:58:23 -0500 From: David Green Subject: (erielack) Fw: [BRPRy] Ketner Tunnel!!?? This is off the BR&P yahoo group. Does anyone know if there was a Ketner Tunnel on the Bradford Division? - - Dave Green, ELHS #1366 - ----- Original Message ----- From: BPRR3000_@_AOL.COM To: BRPRy_@_yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 11:02 AM Subject: [BRPRy] Ketner Tunnel!!?? Gentlemen: I've been looking at my slides of Ketner Cut lately, while working on Volume II of "the book." Does anyone know for sure if that was ever a tunnel that may have been daylighted? Perhaps an Erie tunnel until the late 1800s?? I can understand the need to daylight it after the BR&P aimed to double track Clarion Hill. For as big as it is, I wouldn't be surprised if there was once a single track tunnel. I just can't find any conclusive evidence.... Anyone?? Mike Z. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BRPRy/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: BRPRy-unsubscribe_@_yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1dc.1aa1be05.2d695864_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:57:08 EST From: RBehre8599_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) ELHS Archives eBay sale item: Erie RR steam loco. book The ELHS Archives has the Erie RR Steam Locomotives Diagram book by Alvin F.Staufer on eBay for disposition. If interested in bidding or viewing this item, please go to the link below: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2227548593 Rich Behrendt ELHS #384 ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1201 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000f01c3f96f$13b1a080$b54d56d1_@_y6p6m1> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:09:54 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage Mile Posts on the NYL&W were numbered from Hoboken via Washington NJ. DL&W ETT 96 (25 Sep 49), for example, notes "Distance from Hoboken via Cut Off" to Buffalo [Passenger Terminal] of 395.15 miles while the DL&W's listing effective 19 July 1886 in the November 1886 Offiicial Railway Guide shows the mileage from Hoboken to Buffalo as 408. The Lackawanna Cut Off between Netcong and Slateford Junction saved the DL&W 13 miles (and much curvature, etc.). IIRC Valuation Maps for former DL&W lines west of Slateford Junction show the location of both the original pre-Cut Off Mile Posts and the later post-Cut Off Mile Posts. I believe all (or almost all) of the DL&W was Mile Posted from Hoboken while on the Erie the JC (Jersey City) series prevailed only on the former original Erie Railway (Jersey City to Dunkirk and certain branches). S (Salamanca) was the zero-point for numbering to Dayton via Latrimer, M (Marion) to IN-IL State Line, and C (Cleveland) from Cleveland to Pymatuning. The C series is unique in that it is the only series on the Erie or, in fact, most northeastern railroads, where the Mile Posts run from west to east. Mike Connor An interesting tidbit about the Lackawanna's mileage is the passenger timetables showed the distance l mile more than the actual timetables. My hometown of Dansville is shown, as MP 319.5, while the MP east of the station was MP318.5. This mile is added as distance from New York City via a Ferry ride of on the Hudson & Manhattan "Tubes" to Hoboken. David MV ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <75.23144f2a.2d6a78f6_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:28:22 EST From: KSmollin_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) New Jersey Transit article on the Pascack Valley Line NJT plan is met by resistance in towns Sunday, February 22, 2004 By CATHERINE HOLAHAN STAFF WRITER ORADELL -NJ Transit plans to add more trains and more track to its Pascack Valley Line to improve commuter service. But many officials in towns along the route strongly object to the plan. They say more trains will lead to more traffic jams on streets intersected by tracks and could block emergency vehicles from responding to calls. About 20 town officials voiced these and other concerns to NJ Transit officials at a meeting at Oradell's Borough Hall last week. "There is a great deal of concern for many reasons," said Assemblywoman Charlotte Vandervalk, R-Hillsdale. "Whenever [the trains] stop or come through traffic stops on the streets, there are literally 20-minute waits." Transit officials insist the proposed construction - tentatively scheduled for this summer - will improve travel for commuters in the 17 towns along the Pascack Valley route by enabling them to take trains to and from the Secaucus station during the day. Currently, Pascack Valley trains only travel south in the morning to the Secaucus station, where transfers are available to New York trains and other state lines. Trains head north to Spring Valley, N.Y., in the evenings. "I like to think it will enhance the quality of service we give our passengers," said Les Eckrich, senior director for project management at NJ Transit. Eckrich and Jim McDermott, a regional manager in NJ Transit's office of community relations, outlined the plans for the officials at a meeting Thursday night. The proposal calls for the installation of railroad sidings, which allow trains to pass other trains, in East Rutherford, Hackensack, Oradell, and Nanuet N.Y. Sidings are also proposed for Teterboro and Montvale; however, neither station is instrumental for the transit authority to run the additional train service. Transit officials estimate that the project will cost $25 million to $30 million. They are hoping to open bidding for contractors in March. Town officials are hoping to delay that process, if not block it outright. "We don't see that there is a need for trains moving in both directions," said Sonja Hanlon, a councilwoman in Oradell. "[The sidings] should not go in Oradell." Hanlon said trains already clog traffic on Oradell Avenue, one of the town's busiest east-west routes. Sometimes traffic jams extend into New Milford, she said. She added that the tracks cut the town in half, preventing emergency vehicles from getting to the other side of town when the gates are down. Hanlon asked NJ Transit officials to conduct a traffic impact study in Oradell before going out to bid. Transit officials were also asked for environmental impact studies, since the Pascack Valley tracks run near the Oradell Reservoir and feeder streams. Transit officials said they would provide the information. Officials also objected to the possible use of the additional track to run freight trains during the day. Freight trains are typically longer than passenger trains, potentially creating greater traffic jams. Eckrich said the plan was to increase passenger service and "had nothing to do with freight operations." E-mail: holahan_@_northjersey.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <155.2e23dd75.2d6a81fb_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:06:51 EST From: Hhaines_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) New Jersey Transit article on the Pascack Valley Line Well, out here, the railroad (and state) would tell the town to put grade separation with a road underpass or overpass. Usually out here, those main roads are either federal or state secondariness, and most of the grade separation can be paid by that (federal or state) entity. But then again, it is in NJ. H Haines ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <7b.231d17a2.2d6a87b1_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:31:13 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage In a message dated 2/22/2004 1:13:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net writes: Mik Mile Posts on the NYL&W were numbered from Hoboken via Washington NJ. MILE POST WERE NEVER CHANGED WHEN THE CUTOFF WAS BUILT? I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION FROM SLATEFORD JCT WEST THE WHOLE RAILROAD WAS CHANGED? IIRC Valuation Maps for former DL&W lines west of Slateford Junction show the location of both the original pre-Cut Off Mile Posts and the later post-Cut Off Mile Posts. VALUATION MAPS? YOU MEAN VALVE PRINTS? I DON'T EVER REMEMBER SEEING OLD AND NEW MILE POST ON THESE? Mike Connor BOB BAHRS. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:05:41 +0000 From: "Michael Connor" Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage When the Cut-off was built the railroad was re-Mile Posted but not restationed. Val Map Section 21 PA, sheet 21, for example, covers from Engineering Station 5322+80 (which was old MP 101) to ES 5385+60 (old MP 102). At ES 5365+92.6 is new MP 91. Each Mile Post is shown on the Val Map. These were in service through the EL era and should represent the Val Map base for today. I didn't look it up but I expect that where the Old Line and the Cut-off connect at Slateford Junction the Val Map has a note indicating the equation (# of feet from Hoboken via Washinton = # of feet from Hoboken via the Cutoff or whatever "0" point the via Cut-Off Mileage used). Hope this explains what happened in more detail. MJC >From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com >Reply-To: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com >To: dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net, erielack@lists.railfan.net >Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:31:13 EST > >In a message dated 2/22/2004 1:13:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, >dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net writes: > > >Mik > >Mile Posts on the NYL&W were numbered from Hoboken via Washington NJ. > >MILE POST WERE NEVER CHANGED WHEN THE CUTOFF WAS BUILT? >I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION FROM SLATEFORD JCT WEST THE WHOLE RAILROAD WAS >CHANGED? > > >IIRC Valuation Maps for former DL&W lines west of Slateford Junction show >the >location of both the original pre-Cut Off Mile Posts and the later post-Cut >Off Mile Posts. >VALUATION MAPS? YOU MEAN VALVE PRINTS? I DON'T EVER REMEMBER SEEING OLD >AND NEW MILE POST ON THESE? > > >Mike Connor >BOB BAHRS. > _________________________________________________________________ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.22ee98af.2d6a94e2_@_aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:27:30 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage In a message dated 2/22/2004 6:06:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, mjconnor_rr_@_hotmail.com writes: When the Cut-off was built the railroad was re-Mile Posted but not restationed. Val Map Section 21 PA, sheet 21, for example, covers from Engineering Station 5322+80 (which was old MP 101) to ES 5385+60 (old MP 102). At ES 5365+92.6 is new MP 91. Each Mile Post is shown on the Val Map. OK How and where did they come up with Engineering Station 5322+80 ? If it did relate to old MP 101 and new MP 91how does that number relate? Would 5322+80 be related to feet past a mile post? Bob ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:10:15 +0000 From: "Michael Connor" Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage List - correction to my post. The ES at old MP 101 should read 5332+80. Typo on my part, mea culpa. 533,280 (101 miles) was the distance in feet from Hoboken via Washington. MJC >From: "Michael Connor" >Reply-To: "Michael Connor" >To: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com, dmvgvt@earthlink.net, erielack@lists.railfan.net >Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:05:41 +0000 > >When the Cut-off was built the railroad was re-Mile Posted but not >restationed. Val Map Section 21 PA, sheet 21, for example, covers from >Engineering Station 5322+80 (which was old MP 101) to ES 5385+60 (old MP >102). At ES 5365+92.6 is new MP 91. Each Mile Post is shown on the Val >Map. These were in service through the EL era and should represent the Val >Map base for today. I didn't look it up but I expect that where the Old >Line and the Cut-off connect at Slateford Junction the Val Map has a note >indicating the equation (# of feet from Hoboken via Washinton = # of feet >from Hoboken via the Cutoff or whatever "0" point the via Cut-Off Mileage >used). Hope this explains what happened in more detail. MJC > > >>From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com >>Reply-To: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com >>To: dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net, erielack@lists.railfan.net >>Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage >>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:31:13 EST >> >>In a message dated 2/22/2004 1:13:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net writes: >> >> >>Mik >> >>Mile Posts on the NYL&W were numbered from Hoboken via Washington NJ. >> >>MILE POST WERE NEVER CHANGED WHEN THE CUTOFF WAS BUILT? >>I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION FROM SLATEFORD JCT WEST THE WHOLE RAILROAD WAS >>CHANGED? >> >> >>IIRC Valuation Maps for former DL&W lines west of Slateford Junction show >>the >>location of both the original pre-Cut Off Mile Posts and the later >>post-Cut >>Off Mile Posts. >>VALUATION MAPS? YOU MEAN VALVE PRINTS? I DON'T EVER REMEMBER SEEING >>OLD >>AND NEW MILE POST ON THESE? >> >> >>Mike Connor >>BOB BAHRS. >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. >http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ > _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040223040221.UYNK1590.out012.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:02:18 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: (erielack) So, you'd like to have a boat, would you? http://www.boston.com/realestate/articles/2004/02/ 22/floating_fixer_upper/ From the photo, I thought it might be the Marion, but I'm advised by a knowledgeable source that it's more likely the New Jersey which used to work for the New York Cross Harbor RR. The Marion is rumored to be working in Maine. Actually this is a bit of relief. I mean, while my daughter was all for it, somehow my wife didn't see the adventure in selling the house and moving onto an in-renovation boat. But, well, it ISN'T an ERIE boat, so I guess I can let it pass . . . Tongue seriously in cheek here ;^) SGL ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1202 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040223120133.40423.qmail_@_web60609.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040223040221.UYNK1590.out012.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 04:01:33 -0800 (PST) From: John Payne Subject: Re: (erielack) So, you'd like to have a boat, would you? [FULL LINK] http://www.boston.com/realestate/articles/2004/02/22/floating_fixer_upper/ - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040223120426.72215.qmail_@_web60605.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040223120133.40423.qmail_@_web60609.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 04:04:26 -0800 (PST) From: John Payne Subject: Re: (erielack) So, you'd like to have a boat, would you? [FULL LINK] "Fixed" link . . . . . boy it's been a long morning . . . . . http://www.boston.com/realestate/articles/2004/02/22/floating_fixer_upper/ - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040223121037.21511.qmail_@_web60608.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 04:10:37 -0800 (PST) From: John Payne Subject: (erielack) "Houseboat" Try to be helpful and "fix" the link and come out looking like a moron . . . . gonna stick to Playdoh and sharpening pencils (if they'll allow me). JP - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:10:26 -0500 From: "Tom Schmieder" Subject: RE: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" I know it's a couple of days late, but here's my take on this: 39 VOTES??? I would say that is not a very large statistical base to draw conclusions from. You obviously only heard from only the vocal ones who care enough to have their opinions heard. Too bad you didn't have a larger response. Of course, I'm sure it would gloss over the existing results of your survey!!! Tom Schmieder >From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" >Reply-To: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" >To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net >Subject: (erielack) Results of "model paint survey" >Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 13:34:56 -0500 > >Folks, > > Here are the results of the "gloss/semigloss/flat" paint >controversy. For out-of-the-box, factory painted freight diesel >locomotives: > > GLOSS: 12 votes > SEMI-GLOSS: 12 votes > FLAT: 15 votes > >Relatively speaking, it's a dead heat. > > - Paul > _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00a701c3fa25$f4b76720$d95579a5_@_y6p6m1> References: Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:58:53 -0500 From: "David J. Monte Verde" Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage In my August 1st,1900 public timetable, pre Cut Off, showed Dansville at MP 333 and at the end it was MP318.5. None of the MP's in the 1900 ttbl show decimal points, just round numbers, so Dansville could have been 333+/-, Hoboken was shown as MP 0 with out adding the mile from NYC across the Hudson River. I believe (it had to have been)that the RR was remileposted after the Cut Off was built. Regards David MV - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Connor" To: ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage > List - correction to my post. The ES at old MP 101 should read 5332+80. > Typo on my part, mea culpa. 533,280 (101 miles) was the distance in feet > from Hoboken via Washington. MJC > > > >From: "Michael Connor" > >Reply-To: "Michael Connor" > >To: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com, dmvgvt@earthlink.net, erielack@lists.railfan.net > >Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage > >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:05:41 +0000 > > > >When the Cut-off was built the railroad was re-Mile Posted but not > >restationed. Val Map Section 21 PA, sheet 21, for example, covers from > >Engineering Station 5322+80 (which was old MP 101) to ES 5385+60 (old MP > >102). At ES 5365+92.6 is new MP 91. Each Mile Post is shown on the Val > >Map. These were in service through the EL era and should represent the Val > >Map base for today. I didn't look it up but I expect that where the Old > >Line and the Cut-off connect at Slateford Junction the Val Map has a note > >indicating the equation (# of feet from Hoboken via Washinton = # of feet > >from Hoboken via the Cutoff or whatever "0" point the via Cut-Off Mileage > >used). Hope this explains what happened in more detail. MJC > > > > > >>From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com > >>Reply-To: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com > >>To: dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net, erielack@lists.railfan.net > >>Subject: Re: (erielack) NYL&W Mielage > >>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:31:13 EST > >> > >>In a message dated 2/22/2004 1:13:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >>dmvgvt_@_earthlink.net writes: > >> > >> > >>Mik > >> > >>Mile Posts on the NYL&W were numbered from Hoboken via Washington NJ. > >> > >>MILE POST WERE NEVER CHANGED WHEN THE CUTOFF WAS BUILT? > >>I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION FROM SLATEFORD JCT WEST THE WHOLE RAILROAD WAS > >>CHANGED? > >> > >> > >>IIRC Valuation Maps for former DL&W lines west of Slateford Junction show > >>the > >>location of both the original pre-Cut Off Mile Posts and the later > >>post-Cut > >>Off Mile Posts. > >>VALUATION MAPS? YOU MEAN VALVE PRINTS? I DON'T EVER REMEMBER SEEING > >>OLD > >>AND NEW MILE POST ON THESE? > >> > >> > >>Mike Connor > >>BOB BAHRS. > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. > >http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403AC350.30300_@_netscape.net> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:21:52 -0500 From: Al Reibel Subject: (erielack) Two questions- OK, maybe three, but they shouldn't be too difficult for this group! First, are the cabs the same (profile, shape, etc..) on EMD "F" and "E" units? Did they use the same cab section on both? Second (and third) - What are the dimensions of the diamonds on EL boxcars? And are they the same size on 40' cars and 50' cars? Thanks! Al Reibel ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040224040933.LXKB13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <403AC350.30300_@_netscape.net> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:09:22 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Two questions- Al, the answers to your questions . . . Well, the last two about the diamond sizes. . . Should come from Tim Costello, and nobody else. I will let him explain why he is an authority on the topic. As to the first question, about F's and E's, I believe the answer to be yep, sure . . I think so . . Pretty sure . . Maybe. 8^) SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Al Reibel > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:22 PM > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: (erielack) Two questions- > > OK, maybe three, but they shouldn't be too difficult for this group! > First, are the cabs the same (profile, shape, etc..) on EMD > "F" and "E" units? Did they use the same cab section on both? > Second (and third) - What are the dimensions of the diamonds > on EL boxcars? And are they the same size on 40' cars and 50' cars? > Thanks! > Al Reibel > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040224042319.92377.qmail_@_web40707.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:23:19 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Hollritt Subject: (erielack) Old ties, Rusty rail and good highway I took a Sunday ride from the Water Gap to Scranton and down to Manuka Chunk Pa. A great day to explore some senic area's of the Pocono range. Many I had only read about or viewed in photographs. I was surprised by the many sights I took in, EL related of course, I spotted a well preserved green "Phoebe Snow" DL&W trailer just off Rt.11 near Wilkes Barre Pa? This made up for the orange one that disappeared from RT 46 in Wayne NJ recently. I think this one I saw Sunday was along the EL Bloomsburg Branch. Spotted nearby were some other very rusty rolling stock, anyone have information on the heritage of those decades old cars? A couple stations on the "Bloom" remain also! I could not stop and investigate too much. Cute blond female engineer at the throttle, as fireman I wasn't complaining mind you! But I must admit, I was surprised we did cover Steamtown and a little bit of "Historic" Scranton, yeesh that towns hurting. I noticed lots of freight cars along the Delaware-Lacka! wanna. Nice job David! The EL Alco C425 idling at Bridge 60 just as Mr. White intended it, very nice! The latter part of the journey was really incredible, we discovered more of the Lehigh Gorge National Park including the dark, spooky Glen Onoko tunnel, and a spectacular hike to the waterfalls. And of course walking "Haunted" Mauch Chunk at dusk was very chilling! Oh, trust me, you see ghosts... there's two EL cabeese there don't forget C333 and C191... whew! EL content quota met. Ha! It was amazing how many abandoned tracks and visible ROW there are in eastern Pa. that we bounced over, paced alongside and flew over top. I feel sorry for those lucky one's who witnessed the last active years of the DL&W, CNJ, LV, B&P, WB&E, Erie, L&NE & O&W out there. It's 99.9% graveyard now. :( ~ ~ ~ I saw a gray haired CNJ fan sitting in his car as he paused on railroad bridge turned into access road in Glen Onoko. deep in the woods, just sitting there...sad to see mourners still attend the funeral. Todd- As a side note I also found a genuine REA trailer in a fenced lot in Singac NJ (Little Falls) right along the Boonton Line at Main Street. It looks to be in great shape! - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000801c3fa99$2e176010$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: <20040224040933.LXKB13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:43:49 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) Two questions- Well, I'll take my stab on this one: (having measured and scaled dozens of diamonds from photos!) The standard EL boxcar diamond is 60" tall, from top to bottom. They were identical for 40' and 50' cars (for that matter, 60' and 86' as well) The E and F unit cabs were indeed different. - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of > Schuyler Larrabee > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:09 PM > To: 'Al Reibel'; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: RE: (erielack) Two questions- > > > Al, the answers to your questions . . . Well, the > last two about the diamond sizes. . . Should come > from Tim Costello, and nobody else. I will let > him explain why he is an authority on the topic. > > As to the first question, about F's and E's, I > believe the answer to be yep, sure . . I think so > . . Pretty sure . . Maybe. 8^) > > SGL > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On > Behalf Of Al Reibel > > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:22 PM > > To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > > Subject: (erielack) Two questions- > > > > OK, maybe three, but they shouldn't be too > difficult for this group! > > First, are the cabs the same (profile, shape, > etc..) on EMD > > "F" and "E" units? Did they use the same cab > section on both? > > Second (and third) - What are the dimensions of > the diamonds > > on EL boxcars? And are they the same size on > 40' cars and 50' cars? > > Thanks! > > Al Reibel > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040224055654.QSHX8426.out003.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:56:43 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: (erielack) E vs F - Al Reibel's question I went to an authority I know, and his answer was like this: "The answer to the question depends on what part of the cab you are talking about. Lets limit this to E8s and F7s to make it a little simpler. The E7s and earlier E-units are very different in construction from the E8 and E9. "E8 units and F7 units use some of the same contours so that they look a lot alike, but the structure which is supporting it is completely different. "These units are sort of like a mobile truss bridge with the machinery inside. The frame structure transfers the weight of the machinery to the trucks through the center plates and truck bolsters. Because of the totally different positioning of the center plate with relation to the outline of the cab on E-units and F-units the design and positioning of the frame members is completely different. Also the traction motor blower arrangements are totally different between an E-unit and an F-unit, and this results in major differences in the structure under the cab. "More detailed explanation *snip*. In the meantime, an EMD Parts Catalog can provide some insight. There are detailed diagrams in there of all the cab and carbody parts of both families of locomotives." Provided by SGL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040223224728.03d7ae48_@_pop.west.cox.net> References: <403AC350.30300_@_netscape.net> <20040224040933.LXKB13340.out007.verizon.net@MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <20040224040933.LXKB13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:15:25 -0800 From: Timothy Costello Subject: RE: (erielack) Two questions, diamond/herald dimensions. erielack listers: Earlier today Al Reibel wrote: >What are the dimensions of the diamonds on EL boxcars? At 08:09 PM 2/23/2004, Schuyler Larrabee wrote: >Al, the answers to your questions . . . Well, the >last two about the diamond sizes. . . Should come >from Tim Costello, and nobody else. I will let >him explain why he is an authority on the topic. And Paul Tupaczewski responded with: >The standard EL boxcar diamond is 60" tall, from top to bottom. They >were identical for 40' and 50' cars (for that matter, 60' and 86' as >well) Well, here's my side of the story. As Mr. Larrabee implied, by right of acquisition, I AM an authority on dimensions of the EL diamond. By acquisition, I am referring to a recent acquisition of an actual EL painting stencil for the diamond herald. I claim no broader knowledge than what I am able to observe personally, (in my garage). Mr. Tupaczewski will undoubtedly have measured many more diamonds than I, but his may well be scaled from photos. I don't know if mine is typical of an EL diamond or not. Each side of the diamond is 51" long. The diagonal distance from corner to corner across the center of the herald is 72" The center circle has a diameter of 42". In case anyone is interested, I bought the stencil on ebay in a fit of blind enthusiastic allegiance to the spirit of the EL, and without any consideration of the rules and laws of logical behavior. :^) I paid hundreds for the purchase, and hundreds to have it shipped to me from Ohio. Please don't ask the details, (and don't tell my wife.) Suffice to say that I could have purchased many "green boxes" for the sum I have paid so far for the stencil. So far..... Next step is to take it to a welding shop to have it repaired. Several of the spars linking the outer frame to the inner circle have been severed. They appear to be steel rod, 3/8" diameter. Don't ask me how they were severed, they look pretty robust. After structural repairs, I intend to have it sandblasted, (it's in nasty shape) and then painted boxcar red. I'll then mount the unit on my white wall, were I hope it will have the desired effect. If not, I'll paint the wall boxcar red and paint the herald white. Before sandblasting, I'll strip off all the paint chips I can. Problem is, most of the paint on the stencil is white, not much need for color matching white! In case you are wondering, I live in one of those "contemporary" California homes with many vaulted ceilings. My home office is ~ 10'x12', has a blind/windowless wall that is 10' wide, and 18' tall. Perfect to display the herald/stencil. I'll post a photo when the task is complete. By the way, my good friend Mr. Tupaczewski has stated on numerous occasions that he is working on a set of the usual high quality Prime Mover Decals" for Erie Lackawanna Boxcars. I've already promised to buy the first ten sets off his printing press. I'd be grateful to any of you who share my enthusiasm for these decals and would write to Paul and "bug him" to get these done. I'm dying to model some EL 40' boxcars! Best regards to all Tim Costello ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1203 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <200402241304.IAA32045_@_technet.tjhsst.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:04:15 -0500 From: "MONTGOMERY| ED" Subject: (erielack) AN ALCO QUESTION I was looking at the pictures on George Elwood's site last Friday and saw some unusual pictures of MoPac RS-2's. There was a picture of unit 1084. The locomotive does not appear to be re- engined but it looks like a new exhaust system was applied with a protrusion in the hood and 4 stacks rather than the usual one large one. Was this a way to make the engine conform to some pollution standards? Ed Montgomery ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1077628447.403b4e1f33469_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: <200402241304.IAA32045_@_technet.tjhsst.edu> In-Reply-To: <200402241304.IAA32045_@_technet.tjhsst.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:14:07 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: Re: (erielack) AN ALCO QUESTION The MP had some different regulations for some reason, this was also done with their EMDs. Why? I can't remember. - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting MONTGOMERY| ED : > I was looking at the pictures on George Elwood's site last Friday > and saw some unusual pictures of MoPac RS-2's. There was a > picture of unit 1084. The locomotive does not appear to be re- > engined but it looks like a new exhaust system was applied with a > protrusion in the hood and 4 stacks rather than the usual one large > one. Was this a way to make the engine conform to some > pollution standards? > > Ed Montgomery > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <147.22e6ad02.2d6ca93e_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:18:54 EST From: Smtimko_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) AN ALCO QUESTION Not being a student of MOPAC, but I seem to remember that MP repowered many of their Alco road switchers with EMD engines of about 1200 HP or so in the 60's. EXTRA 2200 SOUTH no doubt has printed complete details as I think they ran a detailed MOPAC locomotive roster years ago. Certain others will fill in more details. SMT ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1077629270.403b5156a8765_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: <147.22e6ad02.2d6ca93e_@_aol.com> In-Reply-To: <147.22e6ad02.2d6ca93e_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:27:50 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: Re: (erielack) AN ALCO QUESTION Looking back at George's site it appears that the RS-3s were indeed repowered with EMD engines, from E8s much like other railroads. Why were E8 power plants used? Because railroads were disposing of them and decided to put the blocks to good use? http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-loco.html Why their EMDs had multiple exhaust stacks (some 2 or 3, mostly 4), I haven't figured that one out yet. - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com Quoting Smtimko_@_aol.com: > Not being a student of MOPAC, but I seem to remember that MP repowered many > of their Alco road switchers with EMD engines of about 1200 HP or so in the > 60's. > > EXTRA 2200 SOUTH no doubt has printed complete details as I think they ran a > > detailed MOPAC locomotive roster years ago. > > Certain others will fill in more details. > > SMT ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1077629686.403b52f613898_@_www.joshuakblay.com> References: <147.22e6ad02.2d6ca93e_@_aol.com> <1077629270.403b5156a8765@www.joshuakblay.com> In-Reply-To: <1077629270.403b5156a8765_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:34:46 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: (erielack) More on MoPac RS-3s More on MoPac RS-3s- "Otherwise known as GP12s. Basically, they fit two EMD 36" fans cattywampus in a square box that was constructed to the same dimensions as the OD of the original fan, and slightly elevated above the high point of the hood. Every one I saw had one low fan and one high fan, or that was how it appeared from the ground. I never did have very many views of this arrangement from above. It's also important to note that the EMD engines were taller than the Alco hood was, so there was a cylindrical cross-section protruberance for the manifold. There were three exhaust stacks, and every one I ever saw had the MoPac spark arresters on them. And, they had both the 45 degree angle number boards and the square marker lights at each corner." - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403B5571.D7618261_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <147.22e6ad02.2d6ca93e_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:45:21 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) AN ALCO QUESTION Well this really isn't an EL list topic except if you want to stretch it to say that the EL repowering used a modified hood whereas the MP made the 12-567 engine fit under the existing hood. Those conversions were done around 1964 by MP. Steve's correct about the MP roaster in X2200 South, but the information was also in the Second Diesel Spotter's Guide, most of the information coming from X2200 South as attributed in the Acknowledgments. Regards, Will Shultz Smtimko_@_aol.com wrote: > > Not being a student of MOPAC, but I seem to remember that MP repowered many > of their Alco road switchers with EMD engines of about 1200 HP or so in the > 60's. > > EXTRA 2200 SOUTH no doubt has printed complete details as I think they ran a > detailed MOPAC locomotive roster years ago. > > Certain others will fill in more details. > > SMT ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE41A2_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:45:23 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) Two questions, diamond/herald dimensions. Tim Costello wrote: > As Mr. Larrabee implied, by right of acquisition, I AM an > authority on > dimensions of the EL diamond. By acquisition, I am referring > to a recent > acquisition of an actual EL painting stencil for the diamond > herald. I > claim no broader knowledge than what I am able to observe > personally, (in > my garage). Mr. Tupaczewski will undoubtedly have measured many more > diamonds than I, but his may well be scaled from photos. I > don't know if > mine is typical of an EL diamond or not. > > Each side of the diamond is 51" long. > The diagonal distance from corner to corner across the center > of the herald > is 72" > The center circle has a diameter of 42". D'oh, that's what I get for not checking my artwork and just going off of memory! You are correct, I measured them out as 72" (I wonder where that 60" number came to me???) Your diamond is indeed a typical diamond - I don't think the EL varied on their diamond styles (too much, that is ;) > In case anyone is interested, I bought the stencil on ebay in > a fit of > blind enthusiastic allegiance to the spirit of the EL, and > without any > consideration of the rules and laws of logical behavior. :^) > > I paid hundreds for the purchase, and hundreds to have it > shipped to me > from Ohio. Please don't ask the details, (and don't tell my > wife.) Suffice to say that I could have purchased many > "green boxes" for > the sum I have paid so far for the stencil. So far..... This is why I passed on this auction, Tim... ;) > Next step is to take it to a welding shop to have it > repaired. Several of > the spars linking the outer frame to the inner circle have > been severed. > They appear to be steel rod, 3/8" diameter. Don't ask me how > they were > severed, they look pretty robust. After structural repairs, > I intend to > have it sandblasted, (it's in nasty shape) and then painted > boxcar red. > I'll then mount the unit on my white wall, were I hope it > will have the > desired effect. If not, I'll paint the wall boxcar red and paint the > herald white. Will the wife have a problem with THAT? :) > By the way, my good friend Mr. Tupaczewski has stated on numerous > occasions that he is working on a set of the usual high > quality Prime Mover > Decals" for Erie Lackawanna Boxcars. I've already promised > to buy the > first ten sets off his printing press. I'd be grateful to > any of you who > share my enthusiasm for these decals and would write to Paul > and "bug him" > to get these done. I'm dying to model some EL 40' boxcars! As a coincidence, work has started on the EL 40' boxcars (coincident with work on the EL GMY passenger cars, now that the DL&W MOW set is essentially finished - it's waiting for final approval from some of this list's DL&W MOW experts)... :) I will be doing the boxcars as separate sets to keep costs down - one set will do just 40' boxcars, the other set will do 50' and 60' boxcars. The latter set will also do 86' boxcars, but I will make an "add-on" set to do the extra lettering for the ends. 40' boxcars are first, however. Truth be told, I've been cobbling together the artwork for several years, in piecemeal fashion. The big thing I need to do now is come up with appropriate combinations of capy and dimensional info to put on there. - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <003801c3fae2$eb304d30$34801aac_@_clegg> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE41A2_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:31:39 -0500 From: "Bob Clegg" Subject: Re: (erielack) Two questions, diamond/herald dimensions. Well, 60 inches.....6'-0" it's close - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" To: "'Timothy Costello'" ; "Schuyler Larrabee" ; "'Al Reibel'" ; Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:45 AM Subject: RE: (erielack) Two questions, diamond/herald dimensions. > Tim Costello wrote: > > > As Mr. Larrabee implied, by right of acquisition, I AM an > > authority on > > dimensions of the EL diamond. By acquisition, I am referring > > to a recent > > acquisition of an actual EL painting stencil for the diamond > > herald. I > > claim no broader knowledge than what I am able to observe > > personally, (in > > my garage). Mr. Tupaczewski will undoubtedly have measured many more > > diamonds than I, but his may well be scaled from photos. I > > don't know if > > mine is typical of an EL diamond or not. > > > > Each side of the diamond is 51" long. > > The diagonal distance from corner to corner across the center > > of the herald > > is 72" > > The center circle has a diameter of 42". > > > D'oh, that's what I get for not checking my artwork and just going off of memory! You are correct, I measured them out as 72" (I wonder where that 60" number came to me???) > > Your diamond is indeed a typical diamond - I don't think the EL varied on their diamond styles (too much, that is ;) > > > > > In case anyone is interested, I bought the stencil on ebay in > > a fit of > > blind enthusiastic allegiance to the spirit of the EL, and > > without any > > consideration of the rules and laws of logical behavior. :^) > > > > I paid hundreds for the purchase, and hundreds to have it > > shipped to me > > from Ohio. Please don't ask the details, (and don't tell my > > wife.) Suffice to say that I could have purchased many > > "green boxes" for > > the sum I have paid so far for the stencil. So far..... > > > This is why I passed on this auction, Tim... ;) > > > > > Next step is to take it to a welding shop to have it > > repaired. Several of > > the spars linking the outer frame to the inner circle have > > been severed. > > They appear to be steel rod, 3/8" diameter. Don't ask me how > > they were > > severed, they look pretty robust. After structural repairs, > > I intend to > > have it sandblasted, (it's in nasty shape) and then painted > > boxcar red. > > I'll then mount the unit on my white wall, were I hope it > > will have the > > desired effect. If not, I'll paint the wall boxcar red and paint the > > herald white. > > > Will the wife have a problem with THAT? :) > > > > > By the way, my good friend Mr. Tupaczewski has stated on numerous > > occasions that he is working on a set of the usual high > > quality Prime Mover > > Decals" for Erie Lackawanna Boxcars. I've already promised > > to buy the > > first ten sets off his printing press. I'd be grateful to > > any of you who > > share my enthusiasm for these decals and would write to Paul > > and "bug him" > > to get these done. I'm dying to model some EL 40' boxcars! > > > As a coincidence, work has started on the EL 40' boxcars (coincident with work on the EL GMY passenger cars, now that the DL&W MOW set is essentially finished - it's waiting for final approval from some of this list's DL&W MOW experts)... :) > > I will be doing the boxcars as separate sets to keep costs down - one set will do just 40' boxcars, the other set will do 50' and 60' boxcars. The latter set will also do 86' boxcars, but I will make an "add-on" set to do the extra lettering for the ends. > > 40' boxcars are first, however. Truth be told, I've been cobbling together the artwork for several years, in piecemeal fashion. The big thing I need to do now is come up with appropriate combinations of capy and dimensional info to put on there. > > - Paul > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:42:25 EST From: Smtimko_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) AN ALCO QUESTION Hold it right there Will...........Just found a legal loophole..........this DOES have EL content. I remember seeing at least one of these Alco RS/GP-12's moving to GE Erie via EL-Shenango-B&LE........ I was working at XN Tower, Shenango, Pa and one was on train 78 or 94 or some such train moving to GE Erie as either a trade in or sold or whatever. Later, I photographed that unit in the backyard at GE during one of my tours of the plant. So......EL content confirmed........... SMT ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403B6526.5040400_@_bellatlantic.net> References: <147.22e6ad02.2d6ca93e_@_aol.com> <1077629270.403b5156a8765@www.joshuakblay.com> <1077629686.403b52f613898@www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:52:22 -0500 From: frank mellott Subject: Re: (erielack) More on MoPac RS-3s MOPAC installed liberated exhausts on many rebuilds, especially GP7's and GP18's. Basic idea is that the exhaust system delays the escape of gases, reducing horsepower. MOPAC was able to bump up horse power by 100 simply by installing the 4 stack exhaust system on GP7's and 18's. On some late 18's they used 645E's at 2000 HP, but still used the liberated exhaust. ICG used it on some GP10's also. Seaboard System/SCL used it on GP16's. Those are the only major examples I can think of offhand. Conrail's geep's that kept dynamic brakes didn't have room for the 4 stack manifold Whether EL would have rebuilt the non dynamic brake equipped units with liberated exhausts or left them off to maintain as much uniformity as possible I can't say. Maybe someone who worked with EL motive power can make a better guess. Check out Kalmbach's Contemporary Disel Spotters Guide for more info on rebuilds. Frank ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1077634066.403b641291f0e_@_webmail.dnaco.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:47:46 -0500 From: George Elwood Subject: (erielack) ALCO question MP used the mulitple exhaust stacks to improve the effective of the locomotive and extract another 100 HP out of the engine. This is similar to the IC rebuild program Note, the EL and CR also used the E8A engines to repower old ALCo units. - -- George Elwood gelwood_@_dnaco.net http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood http://www.rr-fallenflags.org ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040224180447.5234.qmail_@_web40809.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:04:47 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Stuy Subject: (erielack) The Lackawanna Story for sale I have a copy of The Lackawanna Story by Robert J. Casey and W.A.S. Douglas for sale. The dust jacket has a few wear marks but no real tears. The book itself is in very good condition. I am asking $35 including shipping. First email gets it. Thanks, Tim ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1077652268.403bab2cafc8b_@_www.joshuakblay.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:51:08 -0500 From: "Joshua K. Blay" Subject: (erielack) Portland, PA Powerplant From Ross Rowland, posted at a discussion board linked from chaski.com- "From Mr. Franks post it appears that he is unaware that the power plant at Portland, Pa. is soon to convert to using natural gas thus ending the one large shipper on this branch(which connects directly to the Delaware Water Gap trackage now owned by Monroe County) and will probably result in NS selling the balance of the branch(Phillipsburg-Portland) to Monroe County. Should that happen, then steam excursions Phillipsburg-Delaware Water Gap& Scranton are entirely possible." - -- Joshua http://www.joshuakblay.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3E176CBE.6C9B6AD0.007B406A_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:59:28 -0500 From: STEVEZ10_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Portland, PA Powerplant Yeah, then all we need is for NS to sell the Washington Secondary to Morristown & Erie or NJT and you can have the long Steam excursions from Hoboken to Scranton via the old road! Steve Pellettiere ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <022420042310.11564.1583_@_comcast.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:10:40 +0000 From: gjokra_@_comcast.net Subject: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs Quick question without doing a lot of cool searching..... Were all of the DL&W's FT Bs "short" I was looking at some pictures to see if I could tell, but I couldn't. Since Intermountain is not doing the N DL&W FTs, last I heard, I was going to paint some in the freight scheme. Greg O ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <00db01c3fb30$ac2da3a0$0201a8c0_@_DFLXW121> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:48:09 -0500 From: "Jon Scaptura" Subject: (erielack) Diners Which end led the dining cars in transit? Was it the kitchen or table end of the car, or did it matter? Jon ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403BE94B.7B21ECA2_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <022420042310.11564.1583_@_comcast.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:16:11 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs No. FTBs 601B-604B were FTSB short B Units that were part of the ABA road sets. FTBs 651B-654B were standard FT B units that were part of what were originally pusher AB sets. Regards, Will Shultz gjokra_@_comcast.net wrote: > > Quick question without doing a lot of cool searching..... > Were all of the DL&W's FT Bs "short" I was looking at some pictures to see if I could tell, but I couldn't. Since Intermountain is not doing the N DL&W FTs, last I heard, I was going to paint some in the freight scheme. > Greg O ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403BEB59.6B032BE4_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <00db01c3fb30$ac2da3a0$0201a8c0_@_DFLXW121> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:24:57 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners The it depends on what pictures you look at I suppose and where the diner was dropped enroute if I understand your question Jon. I've seen it kitchen end first going west and kitchen trailing going east. Based on the sample though I would not even begin to suggest this is conclusive. Regards, Will Shultz Jon Scaptura wrote: > > Which end led the dining cars in transit? Was it the kitchen or table end > of the car, or did it matter? > > Jon ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:43:46 EST From: Smtimko_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners Dining car heading.............. Don't think it mattered, but I seem to recall that many of the cars that I have been on and cars that passed the towers where I worked had the kitchen end east. Planned for operations or just a coincidence??????? Don't know. smt ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <013b01c3fb44$e1357230$0200a8c0_@_none> References: <022420042310.11564.1583_@_comcast.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:12:53 -0600 From: "Bill Weibel" Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs 601B 602B 603B 604B were the "short" B units, They were delivered in the three unit 4050HP "road" diesels. (62:15gearing 65mph) 650 class B Units were the standard length as these were 2700HP A-B sets with 45MPH gearing for use as helpers (or as the DL men called them "pushers") The 650 class had a small steam boiler in the rear of the B unit..... Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Erielack list" Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:10 PM Subject: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs > Quick question without doing a lot of cool searching..... > Were all of the DL&W's FT Bs "short" I was looking at some pictures to see if I could tell, but I couldn't. Since Intermountain is not doing the N DL&W FTs, last I heard, I was going to paint some in the freight scheme. > Greg O > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403C0703.7040709_@_sprint.ca> References: <20040224040933.LXKB13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <20040224040933.LXKB13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:22:59 -0400 From: A Samostie Subject: Re: (erielack) E vs. F unit nose dimensions (was re: Two questions-) Dear Schuyler, Al and Group, No, I don't believe they are exactly the same. I don't have drawings or other proof, but the EL / DL&W passenger grey-maroon-yellow scheme does highlight some discrepancies, which leads me to believe that the dimensions are different. First, the carbody portholes were evidently used to provide a centerline for painting the maroon and yellow side stripes. As has been noted before on this group, and in several pictorial books, the stripes were several inches higher on the DL&W passenger F3s than they were on the E8s. The difference is clearly visible when an F3 A or B unit was paired with an E8 for whatever reason. Second, the angle of curvature of the maroon gores on the nose appears different, as does the overall height of the yellow nose bib. Evidently, there are a few extra inches between the top of the pilot beam and the bottom of the headlight casing on the F units than on the E units. If anyone has a set of original EMD drawings (with dimensions) to confirm or negate my observation, that would be great, because it's something I've puzzled over for some time. Cheers, Alan Samostie ELHS #3178 Schuyler Larrabee wrote: > Al, the answers to your questions . . . Well, the > last two about the diamond sizes. . . Should come > from Tim Costello, and nobody else. I will let > him explain why he is an authority on the topic. > > As to the first question, about F's and E's, I > believe the answer to be yep, sure . . I think so > . . Pretty sure . . Maybe. 8^) > > SGL > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net >>[mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On > > Behalf Of Al Reibel > >>Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:22 PM >>To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net >>Subject: (erielack) Two questions- >> >>OK, maybe three, but they shouldn't be too > difficult for this group! >>First, are the cabs the same (profile, shape, > etc..) on EMD >>"F" and "E" units? Did they use the same cab > section on both? >>Second (and third) - What are the dimensions of > the diamonds >>on EL boxcars? And are they the same size on > 40' cars and 50' cars? > >>Thanks! >>Al Reibel ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403C0552.7BD02A2A_@_optonline.net> References: <20040224042319.92377.qmail_@_web40707.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:15:47 -0500 From: Tony Subject: Re: (erielack) Old ties, Rusty rail and good highway I thought Manunka Chunk was off of Route 46 in Jersey. Or, do you mean Mauch Chunk? Todd Hollritt wrote: > I took a Sunday ride from the Water Gap to Scranton and down to Manuka Chunk Pa. A great day to explore some senic area's of the Pocono range. Many I had only read about or viewed in photographs. I was surprised by the many sights I took in, EL related of course, I spotted a well preserved green "Phoebe Snow" DL&W trailer just off Rt.11 near Wilkes Barre Pa? This made up for the orange one that disappeared from RT 46 in Wayne NJ recently. I think this one I saw Sunday was along the EL Bloomsburg Branch. Spotted nearby were some other very rusty rolling stock, anyone have information on the heritage of those decades old cars? A couple stations on the "Bloom" remain also! I could not stop and investigate too much. Cute blond female engineer at the throttle, as fireman I wasn't complaining mind you! But I must admit, I was surprised we did cover Steamtown and a little bit of "Historic" Scranton, yeesh that towns hurting. I noticed lots of freight cars along the Delaware-Lac! ka! > wanna. > Nice job David! The EL Alco C425 idling at Bridge 60 just as Mr. White intended it, very nice! > The latter part of the journey was really incredible, we discovered more of the Lehigh Gorge National Park including the dark, spooky Glen Onoko tunnel, and a spectacular hike to the waterfalls. And of course walking "Haunted" Mauch Chunk at dusk was very chilling! Oh, trust me, you see ghosts... there's two EL cabeese there don't forget C333 and C191... whew! EL content quota met. Ha! > It was amazing how many abandoned tracks and visible ROW there are in eastern Pa. that we bounced over, paced alongside and flew over top. I feel sorry for those lucky one's who witnessed the last active years of the DL&W, CNJ, LV, B&P, WB&E, Erie, L&NE & O&W out there. It's 99.9% graveyard now. :( > ~ ~ ~ > I saw a gray haired CNJ fan sitting in his car as he paused on railroad bridge turned into access road in Glen Onoko. deep in the woods, just sitting there...sad to see mourners still attend the funeral. > > Todd- > > As a side note I also found a genuine REA trailer in a fenced lot in Singac NJ (Little Falls) right along the Boonton Line at Main Street. It looks to be in great shape! > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <016601c3fb47$04fe72a0$0200a8c0_@_none> References: <00db01c3fb30$ac2da3a0$0201a8c0_@_DFLXW121> <403BEB59.6B032BE4@twcny.rr.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:28:12 -0600 From: "Bill Weibel" Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners Now that you mention it , I am thinking of WESTBOUND trains, as eastbound I seldom ventured to the Diner. But I still think the big hallway (kitchen end was at the front of the train) I know for evening meals there was often a line in the "hall" . Wow what great memories. Eating while climbing the Pocono's at Mt Pocono, Tobyhanna, Gouldsboro. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Shultz" To: "Jon Scaptura" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 6:24 PM Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners > The it depends on what pictures you look at I suppose and where the > diner was dropped enroute if I understand your question Jon. I've seen > it kitchen end first going west and kitchen trailing going east. Based > on the sample though I would not even begin to suggest this is > conclusive. > > Regards, > > Will Shultz > > Jon Scaptura wrote: > > > > Which end led the dining cars in transit? Was it the kitchen or table end > > of the car, or did it matter? > > > > Jon > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <98.4477e7b.2d6d6337_@_aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:32:23 EST From: Dlw1el2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs In a message dated 2/24/2004 9:15:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, weib3_@_centurytel.net writes: The 650 class had a small steam boiler in the rear of the B unit..... First 10 Train Masters, E8s, and 800 class passenger F3s were the only units to have steam boilers. Bob ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <015501c3fb46$715675c0$0200a8c0_@_none> References: <00db01c3fb30$ac2da3a0$0201a8c0_@_DFLXW121> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:23:40 -0600 From: "Bill Weibel" Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners Jon ussually was kitchen first on most roads. That was the way DL&W did, rode it a bunch. Didn't ride as much EL cars (ex Erie cars) but as I recall the Erie cars seated more at a time, so they used them most of the time. I think of the ex-DL&W cars, only the Budd Streamline cars lasted until the end of EL passenger service Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Scaptura" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: (erielack) Diners > Which end led the dining cars in transit? Was it the kitchen or table end > of the car, or did it matter? > > Jon > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040225025841.86660.qmail_@_web41102.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <016601c3fb47$04fe72a0$0200a8c0_@_none> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:58:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Gary R. Kazin" Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners I think I've only encountered kitchen-first on Amtrak... - --- Bill Weibel wrote: > Now that you mention it, I am thinking of WESTBOUND trains, as eastbound > I seldom ventured to the Diner. But I still think the big hallway > (kitchen end was at the front of the train) I know for evening meals > there was often a line in the "hall". Wow what great memories. Eating > while climbing the Pocono's at Mt Pocono, Tobyhanna, Gouldsboro. ===== Gary R. Kazin DL&W Milepost R35.7 Rockaway, New Jersey http://www.geocities.com/gkazin/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:33:53 -0500 From: "Michael Dye" Subject: (erielack) EL Markings Question List, Now for tonight's silly question: On the EL G-M-Y paint scheme, just what was the placement of the roadname on the long hood based upon? It doesn't appear to be centered on either the long hood, or the engine bay doors. Looking at the various photos doesn't seem to suggest anything to me, as the name on the left side of the GP35 seems to extend forward from the center of the rearmost power assembly (tall) door, where the on same side of a SD45 the name extends forward from the center of the foreward most of the short doors under the radiators. Ideas? Michael Dye _________________________________________________________________ Find and compare great deals on Broadband access at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040225041010.GKMW17235.out011.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:10:03 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) Diners > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Smtimko_@_aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 7:44 PM > To: jscaptura_@_stny.rr.com; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners > > Dining car heading.............. > > Don't think it mattered, but I seem to recall that many of > the cars that I have been on and cars that passed the towers > where I worked had the kitchen end east. > > Planned for operations or just a coincidence??????? Don't know. > > smt > Probably planned. That car had to be serviced someplace(s) and it sure would be a pain if the service doors were on t'other side from the servicers. SGL ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <004401c3fb58$43bc3ed0$6501a8c0_@_paultup> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:31:39 -0500 From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL Markings Question Michael Dye asked: > Now for tonight's silly question: On the EL G-M-Y paint > scheme, just what > was the placement of the roadname on the long hood based > upon? It doesn't > appear to be centered on either the long hood, or the engine > bay doors. > > Looking at the various photos doesn't seem to suggest > anything to me, as the > name on the left side of the GP35 seems to extend forward > from the center of > the rearmost power assembly (tall) door, where the on same > side of a SD45 > the name extends forward from the center of the foreward most > of the short > doors under the radiators. > > Ideas? I've studied this type of esoterica for years, because it too bothered me! Looking at GP35 photos, and measuring spacing, it appears that (most of the time) they tried to center the roadname on the maroon band on the side of the carbody (centering it between the long hood end and the cab). Any off-center effects might be an optical illusion caused by the blower duct bulge (if you're referring to the left side of the unit). Same applies to SD45s - the roadname is supposed to be centered, cab-to-rear-of-long-hood. Again, an optical illusion caused by the large flared radiators on these units. Try measuring on photos and you'll see what I mean. More interestingly, some units had the roadname a little higher or lower within that stripe (GP35 2551 is one that comes to mind, with the roadname a bit lower). This was to accommodate the hood hinges, which are apparently a bear to mask around. This is PARTICULARLY noticable on the C424 fleet, because those Alco hood door handles are *really* a pain to mask around! This is why most C424s looked "odd", with the roadname really high or low on the stripe (it gave the units an "out of balance" look). Some EMD switchers also had roadnames that were higher on the stripe, to avoid masking around hood louvers, too. Of course, the shop folks were the ones who ultimately determined roadname positions. Some oddities that I've noticed: * SD45 801 - roadname a little too far back on the hood * SD45 802 - roadname WAY too far forward (on the left side, almost touching the blower duct housing) * NW2 402 - roadname WAY too far forward * F3 7081 - this is the unit Athearn did, and they did it correctly - the Roman roadname was too far forward, not centered at all on the carbody You always have to remember - the human element comes into play when it comes to paint jobs, and all the "standards" in the world can't stop the anomalies! :) Note that many of these units were later "corrected" before CR. Hope this helps! - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403C295C.30209_@_netscape.net> References: <20040224040933.LXKB13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> <403C0703.7040709@sprint.ca> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:49:32 -0500 From: Al Reibel Subject: Re: (erielack) E vs. F unit nose dimensions (was re: Two questions-) A Samostie wrote: > If anyone has a set of original EMD drawings (with dimensions) to > confirm or negate my observation, that would be great, because it's > something I've puzzled over for some time. > > Cheers, > Alan Samostie > Well the closest I can come is a set of Erie Diesel drawings. They're blueprints of all the pre 1951 diesels, and looking at the drawings they LOOK similar, other than the obvious stuff like the number boards. But did the draftsman get it right? AL ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1204 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1d8.1ae80557.2d6e0424_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:59:00 EST From: Jjbchian_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners In a message dated 2/24/2004 9:11:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, schuyler.larrabee_@_verizon.net writes: > Probably planned. That car had to be serviced > someplace(s) and it sure would be a pain if the > service doors were on t'other side from the > servicers To all listers: All EL (Erie) Diners in the 739-747 series had doors on both sides of the car at the kitchen end. This allowed provisioning from either side of the car. The DL&W Phoebe Snow diners had the same arrangement. In regard to positioning of the cars in the trains, I have seen them facing each direction. To the best of my knowledge, the EL did not specify a particular direction that the kitchen should face. However, common practice would have been to have the Lounge end coupled to the Pullmans for the convenience of sleeping car passengers. Kind regards, JJBoehner ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040225141804.67394.qmail_@_web40806.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <00db01c3fb30$ac2da3a0$0201a8c0_@_DFLXW121> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 06:18:04 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Stuy Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners All of the EL era photos I have seem to indicate that the kitchen end of the car faced west and the lounge end faced east. At least for the Erie cars this was true. I have one photo of EL 770 at Marion with the kitchen also facing west. As far as stocking the cars remember there was a service door on the aisle side as well as the kitchen side although I'm sure the kitchen side was easier to stock from. In many of my non-EL dining experiences I have found that the kitchen side faces coach and diners would line up down the aisle. Of course in the case of the Erie diners you can have people wait for a table in the lounge section (and have one of the "swirl your own" Manhattans while your at it). The ELDCPS has just found out that an ex-El, Erie chef is still alive and still cooking! When we get to talk to him I hope we find out a lot of these kind of details. Our intention has always been to operate the 741 as accurately as possible. Tim Stuy Secretary - ELDCPS ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <01ff01c3fbac$3fa1f070$0201a8c0_@_DFLXW121> References: <20040225141804.67394.qmail_@_web40806.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:28:59 -0500 From: "Jon Scaptura" Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners Thanks for all the tips. Jon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Stuy" To: "Jon Scaptura" ; Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:18 AM Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners | All of the EL era photos I have seem to indicate that | the kitchen end of the car faced west and the lounge | end faced east. At least for the Erie cars this was | true. I have one photo of EL 770 at Marion with the | kitchen also facing west. | | As far as stocking the cars remember there was a | service door on the aisle side as well as the kitchen | side although I'm sure the kitchen side was easier to | stock from. | | In many of my non-EL dining experiences I have found | that the kitchen side faces coach and diners would | line up down the aisle. Of course in the case of the | Erie diners you can have people wait for a table in | the lounge section (and have one of the "swirl your | own" Manhattans while your at it). | | The ELDCPS has just found out that an ex-El, Erie chef | is still alive and still cooking! When we get to talk | to him I hope we find out a lot of these kind of | details. Our intention has always been to operate the | 741 as accurately as possible. | | Tim Stuy | Secretary - ELDCPS | ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040225141804.67394.qmail_@_web40806.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:57:48 -0700 From: Frank Adams Subject: RE: (erielack) Diners related but really not, what was the status of the Krusty Korn dog mix and molds Frank Adams ELHS 2116 - -----Original Message----- From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net]On Behalf Of Tim Stuy Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 7:18 AM To: Jon Scaptura; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners All of the EL era photos I have seem to indicate that the kitchen end of the car faced west and the lounge end faced east. At least for the Erie cars this was true. I have one photo of EL 770 at Marion with the kitchen also facing west. As far as stocking the cars remember there was a service door on the aisle side as well as the kitchen side although I'm sure the kitchen side was easier to stock from. In many of my non-EL dining experiences I have found that the kitchen side faces coach and diners would line up down the aisle. Of course in the case of the Erie diners you can have people wait for a table in the lounge section (and have one of the "swirl your own" Manhattans while your at it). The ELDCPS has just found out that an ex-El, Erie chef is still alive and still cooking! When we get to talk to him I hope we find out a lot of these kind of details. Our intention has always been to operate the 741 as accurately as possible. Tim Stuy Secretary - ELDCPS ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:55:36 -0500 From: "James Harr" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL Markings Question (re:higher or lower) Paul, list and all: Has it not also been said that some lettering was placed higher (or lower) in the maroon band because the handrails would obscure said lettering? I wonder which reason? They both seem plausible, although upon reflection the masking issue would seem _more_ plausible to me. Rarely, I think, would someone's view of a locomotive allow the handrails to block the lettering. Jim Harr More interestingly, some units had the roadname a little higher or lower within that stripe (GP35 2551 is one that comes to mind, with the roadname a bit lower). This was to accommodate the hood hinges, which are apparently a bear to mask around. This is PARTICULARLY noticable on the C424 fleet, because those Alco hood door handles are *really* a pain to mask around! This is why most C424s looked "odd", with the roadname really high or low on the stripe (it gave the units an "out of balance" look). Some EMD switchers also had roadnames that were higher on the stripe, to avoid masking around hood louvers, too. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:17:18 EST From: RAILDATA_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Diners I think Schuyler's explantion is the correct. The diners were oriented so that the kitchent door was on the platform side at most stations...since platform side varied. It certainly would make no difference in the operation of the diner or to the passengers which way the car was oriernted. I recall seeing additianl supplies be loaded in through the kitchen door at Scranton. One thing is sure...they didn't reverse the direction of the diners for every trip. Jusst reversing the Solarioums on the Lackwanna Limited and the Lounge cars on the Pheobe was enough of a hedache! Chuck Y Boulder CO ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040225153903.86956.qmail_@_web40802.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:39:03 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Stuy Subject: RE: (erielack) Diners - --- Frank Adams wrote: > related but really not, what was the status of the > Krusty Korn dog mix and > molds > > Frank Adams > ELHS 2116 I'm sorry, I thought we had told everyone on the list that the Krusty Korn Kob mix and mold are available from us. For $15 (plus $8 shipping), you get the pre-seasoned cast iron mold and one bag of mix. Extra bags of mix are $4.50 each (plus $2 shipping). There was a writeup about them in Jim Porterfield's March "On the Menu" column in Railfan magazine. You can send a check to us at: ELDCPS P.O. Box 5821 Parsippany, NJ 07054 For those in the NYC area we will have a table at the Jersey Central Railroadiana Show and Sale in Clark, NJ on March 7th. We will have the Krusty Korn Kobs, EL coffee and all of our other stuff there. Tim ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <01C3FB8F.E59A5DE0.cthurner_@_adelphia.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:09:52 -0500 From: Christopher Thurner Subject: (erielack) WNYP My sources tell me that WNYP ran two locos eastbound yesterday (2/24) to Hornell. LAL #423 led facing east and was trailed by WNYP #431 facing west. I understand it came through Wellsville around 1 pm. Last evening around 9 pm, I noticed that #431 had returned to Wellsville and was idling by the old Erie freight depot. My guess is that #423 was left in Hornell to be taken by NS to be returned to LAL. Also, I wouldn't be surprised that this trip was also used as an inspection run in anticipation of NS commencing traffic over the line through its rights agreement. Chris Thurner ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: References: <01C3FB8F.E59A5DE0.cthurner_@_adelphia.net> In-Reply-To: <01C3FB8F.E59A5DE0.cthurner_@_adelphia.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:35:06 -0500 (EST) From: Will Enser Subject: Re: (erielack) WNYP On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Christopher Thurner wrote: >My sources tell me that WNYP ran two locos eastbound yesterday (2/24) to >Hornell. LAL #423 led facing east and was trailed by WNYP #431 facing >west. I understand it came through Wellsville around 1 pm. > >Last evening around 9 pm, I noticed that #431 had returned to Wellsville >and was idling by the old Erie freight depot. > >My guess is that #423 was left in Hornell to be taken by NS to be returned >to LAL. > >Also, I wouldn't be surprised that this trip was also used as an inspection >run in anticipation of NS commencing traffic over the line through its >rights agreement. > >Chris Thurner > Subject: Railfan.net Forum Post: Motive Power Changes The following was just posted in "WNY&P" on the Railfan.net Forum Note: Do NOT Reply to this message, it will not reach a human! To reply please use the link URL at the bottom of this page. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Motive Power Changes Post by smtimko 02/25/04 at 06:28:07 in "WNY&P" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- LAL 423 was shipped from Falconer to the B&H at Cohocton, NY yesterday. WNYP 426 has been shipped from Lakeville to Falconer and is expected to arrive at Hornell today for movement to Falconer. SMT - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Click here to view the topic: http://Forums.Railfan.net/?board=WNYP&action=display&num=1077708503 Will Semanchuk-Enser Blue Moon Internet Corp General Manager www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <200402251659.LAA03998_@_technet.tjhsst.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:59:15 -0500 From: "MONTGOMERY| ED" Subject: (erielack) Diners In the final years of the Lake Cities I thought I saw the entire train being turned on the West End Wye. That would have the position of the kitchen changing each trip. Ed Montgomery ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE41B7_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:54:46 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL Markings Question (re:higher or lower) Jim Harr commented: > Has it not also been said that some lettering was placed > higher (or lower) in the maroon band because the handrails > would obscure said lettering? I wonder which reason? They > both seem plausible, although upon reflection the masking > issue would seem _more_ plausible to me. Rarely, I think, > would someone's view of a locomotive allow the handrails to > block the lettering. Larry De Young and had a discussion about this several years ago, and he said he always assumed the reason the C424 lettering was higher/lower was because of the handrail, but I stand steadfast by my reasoning that it's easier to mask when you don't have handles in the way! Remember: The people who did the painting were the shop folks. I don't think they much cared about whether or not you could see the roadname due to a handrail (since there are a million angles you can see the roadname from, this wouldn't be a big issue). But if it saved them time and effort, well, I think we know where they would have gone... ;) - Paul ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:50:21 -0500 From: PaulMmn Subject: Re: (erielack) Diners re: reversing cars: I vaguely remember my one trip from Scranton to Hoboken on the EL (I was 10 at the time). There's a Y in Northern NJ, and our train came to a stop and -backed- into the Hoboken terminal. Everything was turned. I have no idea what happened at the Scranton end. - --Paul E musselman PaulMmn_@_ix.netcom.nospam.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000e01c3fb8d$dafd9c00$2ebe6fd8_@_yourw92p4bhlzg> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 05:55:15 -0500 From: "R.M.\"Rich\" Tubbs" Subject: (erielack) Request for Help - Stillwell Info Needed Listers, I received this from a another person who is not a list member. Can anybody help with some answers? Please respond to Mr.Gray directly at lumpy72_@_email.msn.com Thanks! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Whitewater Valley RR Curator Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:33 AM Subject: Fw: Stillwell Info Needed Hello, I was wondering what drawings that may be available for the Stillwell cars? We have six cars of three different series (2300,2400,2600) on property at this time. We just purchased three more 2600 series cars in 2003 that will be shipped to Connersville this year. The most important item I'm currently needing is the lettering diagrams. We have one coach painted dark green with more to follow over the next two seasons. William W. Gray, Curator Whitewater Valley Railroad http://www.whitewatervalleyrr.org/ Celebrating 30 Years of Operations, The Whitewater Valley Railroad is an operating railroad museum dedicated to the preservation of a historic branch line railroad, to the restoration of railroad equipment, and to the conduct of educational railroad programs. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:21:37 -0500 From: jon.liles_@_us.schneider-electric.com Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs Speaking of DL&W FTSBs, has anyone tried making one out of a Stewart Hobbies FTB (assuming they are close enough to use)? Are there any articles published anywhere that details how this would be done? Would the wheel base be the same length as the normal FTB? Thanks. Jonathan W. Liles ELHS #3158 NMRA #125464 CVRHS # 195 http://railroad.jon-n-bevliles.com/Railroad_Index.html ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403D260A.2C2E5272_@_twcny.rr.com> References: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:47:38 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs Jon, Yes it is possible to come up with a creditable kitbash. I did all the research on this using the Stewarts shell and chassis several years ago. One of these days I'll find where I put all that and have the time to finish it up and write up an article if someone else doesn't do it first. The overhang of the regular FTB's was just that and overhang. Regards, Will Shultz jon.liles_@_us.schneider-electric.com wrote: > > Speaking of DL&W FTSBs, has anyone tried making one out of a Stewart Hobbies FTB (assuming they > are close enough to use)? Are there any articles published anywhere that details how this > would be done? Would the wheel base be the same length as the normal FTB? Thanks. > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040225151737.03c70988_@_pop.west.cox.net> References: <403AC350.30300_@_netscape.net> <20040224040933.LXKB13340.out007.verizon.net@MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <20040224040933.LXKB13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:19:44 -0800 From: Timothy Costello Subject: (erielack) Atlas HO Scale EL Black & Yellow C424 For Sale >erielack listers: I have an Atlas HO Scale EL Black & Yellow C424 for sale on ebay. The url is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3178128862 Tim Costello ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1d3.1ab11b69.2d6ead44_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:00:36 EST From: DLW1155_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs In Tabor's book there is a shot of an FT with a steam loco tender coupled to it painted to match. Apparently this was used when one part of the set was in for an overhaul. I was wondering if there are any better shots of it around? I'd love to model it. Which steam loco did it come from? Anyone know? Al Holleuffer ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1aa.20772626.2d6ed2fd_@_aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:41:33 EST From: Hhaines_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs If not already published in the GN historical society modelers arena, then I know a guy who drafted such an article and made one. I will ask him at Sunday breakfast if it got published or if it is in the works. H Haines ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1205 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 06:42:26 -0500 From: "Joe Schveder" Subject: (erielack) FW: SN Jct >From: EL3673_@_aol.com >To: unionctc_@_hotmail.com >Subject: SN Jct >Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:48:09 EST > >On Saturday February 24, 2004 the Ohio Central Railroad operated to >Leavittsburg to pull storage cars form the old eastbound main of the second >sub-division, east of "SN". Power was the 7585 and the 1005 (slug). At >about 12:00 >noon the train departed "SN" and headed east to North Warren (WN tower). >The >train consisted of 51 cars all in storage that had to be moved due to a >ruling by >the PUCO. The ruling was on lack of operating crossing protection on the >second sub between Warren and Windam. Several other moves were made in >Warren by >a second crew that day with cuts of cars over 40 cars long. Power consist >on >that train was the 8712 and 7595. _________________________________________________________________ Say “good-bye” to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <022620041824.12463.7361_@_comcast.net> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:24:32 +0000 From: gjokra_@_comcast.net Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs Al, That would be X600. It was built by the Scranton Shops to couple a drawbar equipped FTA to other coupler equipped units or trains when the B was out of service. Another reason to replace the drawbars between units. I have seached far and wide for other photos of it and have not had any success. I am modelling one in N-Scale to run on our club layout. An FT with a tender! What a conversation piece! My only question on modelling one would be; How would the coal bunker be handled. Was it covered and was there any detail on the cover. I thought of using just a arched roof panel from an old F unit shell. No detail but some rivets. Without any other photos then it wouldn't be "wrong" would it? Greg O. > In Tabor's book there is a shot of an FT with a steam loco tender coupled to > it painted to match. Apparently this was used when one part of the set was in > for an overhaul. I was wondering if there are any better shots of it around? > I'd love to model it. Which steam loco did it come from? Anyone know? > > Al Holleuffer > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403E4912.B0E7C46B_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <022620041824.12463.7361_@_comcast.net> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:29:22 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs Photos of X600 are available. Bob Bahrs is probably the person outside of a former Scranton shop person that knows the most about it. Regards, Will Shultz gjokra_@_comcast.net wrote: > > Al, > That would be X600. It was built by the Scranton Shops to couple a drawbar equipped FTA to other coupler equipped units or trains when the B was out of service. Another reason to replace the drawbars between units. > I have seached far and wide for other photos of it and have not had any success. I am modelling one in N-Scale to run on our club layout. An FT with a tender! What a conversation piece! > My only question on modelling one would be; How would the coal bunker be handled. Was it covered and was there any detail on the cover. I thought of using just a arched roof panel from an old F unit shell. No detail but some rivets. Without any other photos then it wouldn't be "wrong" would it? > Greg O. > > In Tabor's book there is a shot of an FT with a steam loco tender coupled to > > it painted to match. Apparently this was used when one part of the set was in > > for an overhaul. I was wondering if there are any better shots of it around? > > I'd love to model it. Which steam loco did it come from? Anyone know? > > > > Al Holleuffer > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:59:54 EST From: ELdispatcher_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs All, For a picture of the tender-B unit or whatever we want to call it, look at Sheldon S. King's "The Route of Phoebe Snow" soft cover book, page 171 botton right, re-published by Railroad Avenue Enterprises in September 1991. The angle of the photo isn't the greatest but at least it is a photo. Rich Pennisi ELHS #615 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE41CB_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:17:48 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: RE: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs I have a number of photos of the X600, I'll see if I can dig up any that I can share.... > -----Original Message----- > From: William Shultz [mailto:wshultz1_@_twcny.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 2:29 PM > To: gjokra_@_comcast.net > Cc: DLW1155_@_aol.com; Dlw1el2@aol.com; erielack@lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) DL&W FTSBs > > > Photos of X600 are available. Bob Bahrs is probably the > person outside of a former Scranton shop person that knows > the most about it. > > Regards, > > Will Shultz > > gjokra_@_comcast.net wrote: > > > > Al, > > That would be X600. It was built by the Scranton Shops to couple a > > drawbar equipped FTA to other coupler equipped units or trains when > > the B was out of service. Another reason to replace the drawbars > > between units. I have seached far and wide for other > photos of it and > > have not had any success. I am modelling one in N-Scale to > run on our club layout. An FT with a tender! What a > conversation piece! My only question on modelling one would > be; How would the coal bunker be handled. Was it covered and > was there any detail on the cover. I thought of using just a > arched roof panel from an old F unit shell. No detail but > some rivets. Without any other photos then it wouldn't be > "wrong" would it? Greg O. > > > In Tabor's book there is a shot of an FT with a steam loco tender > > > coupled to it painted to match. Apparently this was used when one > > > part of the set was in for an overhaul. I was wondering > if there are > > > any better shots of it around? I'd love to model it. Which steam > > > loco did it come from? Anyone know? > > > > > > Al Holleuffer > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:08:53 -0500 From: "Michael Dye" Subject: RE: (erielack) EL Markings Question (re:higher or lower) >From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" >Larry De Young and had a discussion about this several years ago, and he >said he always assumed the reason the C424 lettering was higher/lower was >because of the handrail, but I stand steadfast by my reasoning that it's >easier to mask when you don't have handles in the way! > >Remember: The people who did the painting were the shop folks. I don't >think they much cared about whether or not you could see the roadname due >to a handrail (since there are a million angles you can see the roadname >from, this wouldn't be a big issue). But if it saved them time and effort, >well, I think we know where they would have gone... ;) > > - Paul I was looking over the responses to my previous question concerning the placement of the Erie Lackawanna name on the side of the hood road diesel. I note that the replies concerned the placement of the name high or low in the maroon stripe, but I'm still trying to find what determined where the roadname was placed fore and aft on the stripe. Like I said, I assume that there was a set location, but if there was, it isn't evident. Any ideas? Michael Dye _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403EAC4A.6080002_@_sprint.ca> References: <000e01c3fb8d$dafd9c00$2ebe6fd8_@_yourw92p4bhlzg> In-Reply-To: <000e01c3fb8d$dafd9c00$2ebe6fd8_@_yourw92p4bhlzg> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:32:42 -0400 From: A Samostie Subject: Re: (erielack) Request for Help - Stillwell Info Needed Dear Rich and Group, This is interesting. It sounds like Whitewater has managed to assemble a "fleet" of Stillwells. I knew there are individual cars surviving in various locations, but I didn't think there were enough of them left in serviceable condition to put together a "fleet." Anyone know where Whitewater's Stillwells came from? Is there a group of them somewhere that is being disposed of? Is anyone aware of other serviceable Stillwell "fleets" on other shortline operations? Also, a question about Stillwell roof construction. Were they all- steel, or asphalt-coated? Cheers, Alan ELHS #3178 R.M."Rich" Tubbs wrote: > Listers, > > I received this from a another person who is not a list member. Can anybody > help with some answers? Please respond to Mr.Gray directly at > lumpy72_@_email.msn.com > > Thanks! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Whitewater Valley RR Curator > > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:33 AM > Subject: Fw: Stillwell Info Needed > > Hello, > > I was wondering what drawings that may be available for the Stillwell cars? > We have six cars of three different series (2300,2400,2600) on property at > this time. We just purchased three more 2600 series cars in 2003 that will > be shipped to Connersville this year. > > The most important item I'm currently needing is the lettering diagrams. We > have one coach painted dark green with more to follow over the next two > seasons. > > William W. Gray, Curator > Whitewater Valley Railroad > http://www.whitewatervalleyrr.org/ > > Celebrating 30 Years of Operations, The Whitewater Valley Railroad is an > operating railroad museum dedicated to the preservation of a historic branch > line railroad, to the restoration of railroad equipment, and to the conduct > of educational railroad programs. > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <114780-2200425273415718_@_M2W094.mail2web.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:41:57 -0500 From: "tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com" Subject: (erielack) Erie Crash of 1933 The wreck referred to here happened Sept 5 1933 just east of BD when a milk train hit a passenget train from the rear. The piece in the paper doesn't indicate which direction the trains were going. I haven't been able to find the article online, but the Press doesn't put everything in the online edition, so, unfortunately, no link. Can anyone shed some light on this event?? Thanks Tom B - --- Alfred wrote: > To: "Binghamton Railfan Group" > > From: "Alfred" > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:11:29 -0500 > Subject: [BinghamtonNYareaRailfans] Erie Crash of > 1933 > > This morning's (2/25/04) Press and Sun Bulletin had > an article about a man's > model railroad layout. He made reference to losing > either his grandmother > or great-grandmother when a milk train rear ended a > stopped Erie passenger > train. It happened behind the present McDonalds on > upper Court St. Has > anyone ever heard about this wreck and can anyone > direct me to a resource > for more information on this wreck? > > Alfred Olsen > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <187160-22004252734127764_@_M2W048.mail2web.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:41:27 -0500 From: "tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com" Subject: (erielack) Erie Crash of 1933 The wreck referred to here happened Sept 5 1933 just east of BD when a milk train hit a passenget train from the rear. The piece in the paper doesn't indicate which direction the trains were going. I haven't been able to find the article online, but the Press doesn't put everything in the online edition, so, unfortunately, no link. Can anyone shed some light on this event?? Thanks Tom B - --- Alfred wrote: > To: "Binghamton Railfan Group" > > From: "Alfred" > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:11:29 -0500 > Subject: [BinghamtonNYareaRailfans] Erie Crash of > 1933 > > This morning's (2/25/04) Press and Sun Bulletin had > an article about a man's > model railroad layout. He made reference to losing > either his grandmother > or great-grandmother when a milk train rear ended a > stopped Erie passenger > train. It happened behind the present McDonalds on > upper Court St. Has > anyone ever heard about this wreck and can anyone > direct me to a resource > for more information on this wreck? > > Alfred Olsen > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403ED2A0.98BFECB2_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <114780-2200425273415718_@_M2W094.mail2web.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:16:16 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) Erie Crash of 1933 Tom, If there was a fatality there was an ICC investigation. You can look up the detail on line at: http://dotlibrary2.specialcollection.net/scripts/ws.dll?login&site=dot_railroads Regards, Will Shultz "tabeckett_@_stny.rr.com" wrote: > > The wreck referred to here happened Sept 5 1933 just east of BD when a milk > train hit a passenget train from the rear. The piece in the paper doesn't > indicate which direction the trains were going. I haven't been able to find > the article online, but the Press doesn't put everything in the online > edition, so, unfortunately, no link. Can anyone shed some light on this > event?? > > Thanks > > Tom B > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040227055641.BZLE13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:56:28 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: (erielack) FW: E unit F unit cab question NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-27-04 MVC-767F.jpg (image/jpeg, 50012 bytes) I asked my "authoritative source" if he could copy the EMD parts list that he mentioned in the last message I forwarded. The attachment is what he sent. "Increased vision window." Hmmm, that's a phrase I've not seen before . . . SGL > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 4:39 PM > To: Schuyler Larrabee > Subject: E unit F unit cab question > > Here is the page of EMD catalog 90 that shows how the cab > structure is arranged on E units and F units, parts list > D2455, page 14. > > The FT is at the upper left, the E7 at upper right, the F > units (except FT) with early smaller cab windows are at lower > center, the F units (except FT) with increased vision windows > (which took place part way through the F7, side windows got > bigger) are lower left, and the E8 and E9 are at lower right. > > The sheet metal is cut and joined completely differently > between these different families of locomotives because the > joint has to fall across a carbody member which serves as the > backing plate for the weld. Since the structure underneath is > different due to the arrangement of load carrying members, > the cab carbody structure is different between the E units > and the F units. > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040227060007.KTYJ8186.out004.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:59:53 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: (erielack) FW: E8 and F7 cab structural framing NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment. To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the following URL into your web browser: http://www.Railfan.net/lists/listthumb.cgi?erielack-02-27-04 E8CABFRAMES.jpg (image/jpeg, 43445 bytes) F7CABFRAMES.jpg (image/jpeg, 47302 bytes) More info from "Mr. Source." SGL > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 7:49 PM > To: Schuyler Larrabee > Subject: E8 and F7 cab structural framing > > Attached diagrams are from EMD master parts reference catalog. > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040227060257.IRLU1634.out006.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 01:02:44 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: (erielack) FW: E8 and F7 notes Mr Source explains . . . SGL > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 9:54 PM > To: Schuyler Larrabee > Subject: E8 and F7 notes > > I was having some difficulty getting online through the local > access number earlier today so I kept the e-mails to just the images. > > Note in the view of the framing of the E8 (and compare with > the F7) the very significant differences in the design and > placement of the structural ring inside the nose, and the > diagonal member that transmits force to the rest of the > carbody in the event of a collision. On the E8, the ring is a > double structure positioned relatively high up, and the > diagonal transmits force to a large vertical member adjacent > to the door opening. This would appear to be most suitable > for passenger operation where the car next to the engine is > almost always going to have a high profile and possibly have > collision posts on either side of its end access door. > > On the F7, the individual ring structure is smaller and > lighter, there are several of them, and the diagonal member > transmits force to the corner of the structure at the frame. > This arrangement seems much better suited to freight > application where there is no telling what the first car out > from the engine might be. It could be a flat or a gondola > which could hit the lower nose in the event of a derailment > or collision. > > The design of the structure also effects the positioning of > the sand boxes and sand fills, which are very different > between an F7 and an E8. ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1206 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE41D8_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:50:02 -0500 From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Subject: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits Hi folks, Not sure how many N-scalers know about these guys, but take a look: http://www.the-n-arch.com/mastercraftsman.htm In N scale, they make laser-cut kits for the Greendell (NJ) tower, Greendell station, and they just announced the East Stroudsburg tower. Lucky N scalers! :) - Paul Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ Lucent Technologies Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 Performance Test Team 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:11:21 -0500 From: Pat_McKnight_@_nps.gov Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits The tower at Greendell opened the same time as the Mattes Street Tower in Scranton and were both exactly the same dimensions. The only fault I can find in their rendition is the roof and location of the chimney. The roof on these towers generally did not peak to a point, and the chimney would have been on one of the corners of the structure. The hood over the entrance door seems a little off, but the door and window details appear to be right on. A nice model overall. Pat McKnight Historian, Steamtown NHS "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" To: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net cc: (bcc: Pat McKnight/STEA/NPS) Sent by: Subject: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits erielack-owner_@_lists. railfan.net 02/27/2004 08:50 AM EST Please respond to "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" Hi folks, Not sure how many N-scalers know about these guys, but take a look: http://www.the-n-arch.com/mastercraftsman.htm < http://www.the-n-arch.com/mastercraftsman.htm> In N scale, they make laser-cut kits for the Greendell (NJ) tower, Greendell station, and they just announced the East Stroudsburg tower. Lucky N scalers! :) - Paul Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ Lucent Technologies Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 Performance Test Team 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 Whippany, NJ 07981 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040227114752.MGSS8186.out004.verizon.net_@_outgoing.verizon.net> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 5:47:52 -0600 From: Gordon Davids Subject: (erielack) Re: EL List Daily V3 #1206 - Erie Collision at BD, 1933 Here is a URL that will get you to the ICC accident report. Third 2 rear-ended No. 8 east of BD. http://databases.specialcollection.net/scripts/ws.dll?websearch&site=dot_railroads ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <3231-403F973A-1020_@_storefull-3313.bay.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Schuyler Larrabee" 's message of Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:59:53 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:15:06 -0500 (EST) From: Fish_76_@_webtv.net (Joseph D. Fisher) Subject: Re: (erielack) FW: E8 and F7 cab structural framing Increased Window What??? Sounds like James McGreevey's "Revenue Enhancers" which really translate to "Higher Taxes"... The guy who wrote for EMD must still be alive, and writing for our beloved NJ governor now. LOL Joseph D. Fisher ELHS #3320 Generation X now has a voice http://www.conservativepunk.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000201c3fd7d$45215ea0$16c520cc_@_WEB2> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:51:20 -0800 From: "William E. Botkin" Subject: (erielack) P2K 0-8-0 Conversion to DL&W 0-8-0 Folks, Has any one attempted to modify the P2K USRA 0-8-0s into a DL&W 0-8-0 of the 201-260 series (rebuilds from 4-6-2s)? It seems like the most obvious things that need modification are: a.. Remove rear sand dome. b.. Replace cross compound air pump with two single phase pumps. c.. Move bell to forward of stack. d.. Replace steps from pilot deck to running board. e.. Add number plate to smoke box door. Of course there are many other differences, but I was focusing on the very obvious details that alter the appearance enough to make it a credible stand-in. The biggest challenge would appear to be removal of the rear sand dome. I am not sure if the boiler is solid cast metal or plastic which would impact the approach taken. Any actual experience or even ideas based on other similar kit-bashing projects would be greatly appreciated! Bill Botkin Centennial, CO ELHS#1377 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <1a4.207ac61b.2d712d1c_@_aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:30:36 EST From: RJFlei_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) P2k 0-8-0 to a Lackawanna Having never seen a Lackawanna 0-8-0 let me try a stab in the dark. Would it be possible to use a P2K mechanism with a Pacific boiler? If those 0-8-0's had a tapered boiler maybe a boiler from one of the IHC Pacifics or a Mehano might make a more believeable boiler for your model. Just a thought. Rick Fleischer ELHS 1426 Cortland, Oh. ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <403FDB6B.45DA30F_@_twcny.rr.com> References: <000201c3fd7d$45215ea0$16c520cc_@_WEB2> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:06:03 -0500 From: William Shultz Subject: Re: (erielack) P2K 0-8-0 Conversion to DL&W 0-8-0 Bill, For starters, the boiler is wrong, the cab isn't close and most obvious the firebox is too narrow. The wheel are close. Your better off painting it for the NYC, NKP or if you must, the Erie. Of course if you are willing to do a fair amount of scratch building you could come up with something reasonable. Especially the ones that were converted from the Pacifics, the boilers were rather unique. It was like the sliced one of the courses out and then made the smoke box and first boiler course fit. The Mikado conversions look a bit more conventional. Regards, Will Shultz "William E. Botkin" wrote: > > Folks, > > Has any one attempted to modify the P2K USRA 0-8-0s into a DL&W 0-8-0 of the 201-260 series (rebuilds from 4-6-2s)? It seems like the most obvious things that need modification are: > > a.. Remove rear sand dome. > b.. Replace cross compound air pump with two single phase pumps. > c.. Move bell to forward of stack. > d.. Replace steps from pilot deck to running board. > e.. Add number plate to smoke box door. > Of course there are many other differences, but I was focusing on the very obvious details that alter the appearance enough to make it a credible stand-in. The biggest challenge would appear to be removal of the rear sand dome. I am not sure if the boiler is solid cast metal or plastic which would impact the approach taken. Any actual experience or even ideas based on other similar kit-bashing projects would be greatly appreciated! > > Bill Botkin > Centennial, CO > ELHS#1377 ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <018701c3fd96$c735cf20$6401a8c0_@_michaelp4> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:04:11 -0600 From: "Michael Steinberg" Subject: (erielack) U34CH Survivor There is a CEMEX Cement Plant in Monterrey, Mexico that normally uses a leased Alstom SW1200 to swtich the plant. However, over the last six months, Alstom has sent U34CH 4167 to be used as the yard switcher. I have posted a photo of the old dinosaur working the plant in December 2003 on the front page of my website. I have been told by the photographer that more photos will be coming, and that the U-Boat is still being used today! http://www.hobokenterminal.com Regards, Michael Steinberg VP, Communications - ELDCPS http://www.eldcps.org ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1207 ***************************** From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <404089D4.1040709_@_verizon.net> References: <200402281032.i1SAW0R6018140_@_net.bluemoon.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 07:30:12 -0500 From: Gordon Davids Subject: (erielack) Re: EL List Daily V3 #1207 Correction on Rear End Collision of No. 8 and Second 2 at BD Sorry. They did it to me again. This one should start you into the DOT Library Accident Report Collection. I posted the URL that came up for the actual report, and it doesn't work. Go to the railroad collection, 1933, and the second Erie Railroad listing. http://dotlibrary.specialcollection.net/ Gordon ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE41D8_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:04:00 -0500 From: "curtis pope" Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits Hey Paul & list; I guess you know that at one time Crow River made a beautiful HO kit of a DL&W tower, I have one that is in the background of the pics I sent you of my SD45-2. Unfortunately it is out of production, but at their web site they say they may still have old molds around if enough interest is drummed up they might make a new run. I get more questions about that tower from Ebayers because I use it a lot in my listing photos. (I need to go back and repaint the roof, mine is terracotta red). Would love to have one of those stations too! Curt Pope ELHS#1358 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:50 AM Subject: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > Hi folks, > > Not sure how many N-scalers know about these guys, but take a look: > > http://www.the-n-arch.com/mastercraftsman.htm > > > In N scale, they make laser-cut kits for the Greendell (NJ) tower, > Greendell station, and they just announced the East Stroudsburg tower. > Lucky N scalers! :) > > - Paul > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > Lucent Technologies > Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > Performance Test Team > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > Whippany, NJ 07981 > _______________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <000e01c3fe00$31ca4320$6401a8c0_@_CC291246D> References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE41D8_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:38:48 -0500 From: "Jeff Mutter" Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits Are you referring to the Hydrocal concrete tower kit? I spoke to Crow River a year or so ago at the Springfield show and was told the Hydrocal kit was no longer in production but that it was now being produced by The Hobby Gallery (I believe) in resin. I have not spoken to them since, though, so that may have changed. I checked the Hobby Gallery's website and they list "exclusive structure kits" but have no specific kits listing. Jeff Mutter - ----- Original Message ----- From: "curtis pope" To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" ; Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:04 AM Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > Hey Paul & list; > I guess you know that at one time Crow River made a beautiful HO kit of a > DL&W tower, I have one that is in the background of the pics I sent you of > my SD45-2. Unfortunately it is out of production, but at their web site > they say they may still have old molds around if enough interest is drummed > up they might make a new run. I get more questions about that tower from > Ebayers because I use it a lot in my listing photos. (I need to go back and > repaint the roof, mine is terracotta red). Would love to have one of those > stations too! > > Curt Pope > ELHS#1358 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:50 AM > Subject: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > > > > Hi folks, > > > > Not sure how many N-scalers know about these guys, but take a look: > > > > http://www.the-n-arch.com/mastercraftsman.htm > > > > > > In N scale, they make laser-cut kits for the Greendell (NJ) tower, > > Greendell station, and they just announced the East Stroudsburg tower. > > Lucky N scalers! :) > > > > - Paul > > > > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > > Lucent Technologies > > Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 > > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > > Performance Test Team > > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > > Whippany, NJ 07981 > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: References: <1B8C2E08B21B8743A2B3AED07407DA7605BE41D8_@_nj7460exch002u.ho.lucent.com> <000e01c3fe00$31ca4320$6401a8c0@CC291246D> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:59:05 -0500 From: "curtis pope" Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits That's right Jeff, mine is a hydrocal kit that was distributed by the Hobby Gallery back in the early 90's. So maybe they have rights to the kit, so hopefully they might produce some. Curt - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Mutter" To: "curtis pope" ; "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" ; Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:38 AM Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > Are you referring to the Hydrocal concrete tower kit? I spoke to Crow > River > a year or so ago at the Springfield show and was told the Hydrocal kit was > no longer in production but that it was now being produced by The Hobby > Gallery (I believe) in resin. I have not spoken to them since, though, so > that may have changed. I checked the Hobby Gallery's website and they > list > "exclusive structure kits" but have no specific kits listing. > > Jeff Mutter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curtis pope" > To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" ; > > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > > > > Hey Paul & list; > > I guess you know that at one time Crow River made a beautiful HO kit of > > a > > DL&W tower, I have one that is in the background of the pics I sent you > > of > > my SD45-2. Unfortunately it is out of production, but at their web site > > they say they may still have old molds around if enough interest is > drummed > > up they might make a new run. I get more questions about that tower > > from > > Ebayers because I use it a lot in my listing photos. (I need to go back > and > > repaint the roof, mine is terracotta red). Would love to have one of > > those > > stations too! > > > > Curt Pope > > ELHS#1358 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:50 AM > > Subject: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > Not sure how many N-scalers know about these guys, but take a look: > > > > > > http://www.the-n-arch.com/mastercraftsman.htm > > > > > > > > > In N scale, they make laser-cut kits for the Greendell (NJ) tower, > > > Greendell station, and they just announced the East Stroudsburg tower. > > > Lucky N scalers! :) > > > > > > - Paul > > > > > > > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > > > Lucent Technologies > > > Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 > > > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > > > Performance Test Team > > > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > > > Whippany, NJ 07981 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040228223844.ZQCX29216.out009.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:38:27 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: (erielack) HO Scale plaster DL&W tower kit Actually, Curt and everybody else, this kit is very much available. It is an exclusive, however, with The Hobby Gallery, 1810 Meriden Road, Wolcott CT 06716. I don't recall the going price, but you can email to Steve Magnani, who owns The Hobby Gallery, at steve_@_hobbygallery.com They have a website at www.hobbygallery.com too. The phone number is 203 879 2316 This was mentioned on this list about a year and a half ago, or maybe somewhat longer. SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of curtis pope > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:04 AM > To: Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul); erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > > Hey Paul & list; > I guess you know that at one time Crow River made a beautiful > HO kit of a DL&W tower, I have one that is in the background > of the pics I sent you of my SD45-2. Unfortunately it is out > of production, but at their web site they say they may still > have old molds around if enough interest is drummed up they > might make a new run. I get more questions about that tower > from Ebayers because I use it a lot in my listing photos. (I > need to go back and repaint the roof, mine is terracotta > red). Would love to have one of those stations too! > > Curt Pope > ELHS#1358 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:50 AM > Subject: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > > > > Hi folks, > > > > Not sure how many N-scalers know about these guys, but take a look: > > > > http://www.the-n-arch.com/mastercraftsman.htm > > > > > > In N scale, they make laser-cut kits for the Greendell (NJ) tower, > > Greendell station, and they just announced the East > Stroudsburg tower. > > Lucky N scalers! :) > > > > - Paul > > > > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > > Lucent Technologies > > Mobility Solutions Phone: 973-386-4966 > > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > > Performance Test Team > > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > > Whippany, NJ 07981 > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040228224158.TOIK13340.out007.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> In-Reply-To: <000e01c3fe00$31ca4320$6401a8c0_@_CC291246D> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:41:41 -0500 From: "Schuyler Larrabee" Subject: RE: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits Jeff may be right about the resin, vs plaster. I think he is, because the resin castings don't break in the mail, at least a lot less often. SGL > -----Original Message----- > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Mutter > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:39 AM > To: curtis pope; Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul); > erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > > Are you referring to the Hydrocal concrete tower kit? I > spoke to Crow River a year or so ago at the Springfield show > and was told the Hydrocal kit was no longer in production but > that it was now being produced by The Hobby Gallery (I > believe) in resin. I have not spoken to them since, though, > so that may have changed. I checked the Hobby Gallery's > website and they list "exclusive structure kits" but have no > specific kits listing. > > Jeff Mutter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curtis pope" > To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" ; > > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > > > > Hey Paul & list; > > I guess you know that at one time Crow River made a > beautiful HO kit > > of a DL&W tower, I have one that is in the background of the pics I > > sent you of my SD45-2. Unfortunately it is out of > production, but at > > their web site they say they may still have old molds > around if enough > > interest is > drummed > > up they might make a new run. I get more questions about > that tower > > from Ebayers because I use it a lot in my listing photos. > (I need to > > go back > and > > repaint the roof, mine is terracotta red). Would love to > have one of > > those stations too! > > > > Curt Pope > > ELHS#1358 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:50 AM > > Subject: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure kits > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > Not sure how many N-scalers know about these guys, but > take a look: > > > > > > http://www.the-n-arch.com/mastercraftsman.htm > > > > > > > > > In N scale, they make laser-cut kits for the Greendell > (NJ) tower, > > > Greendell station, and they just announced the East > Stroudsburg tower. > > > Lucky N scalers! :) > > > > > > - Paul > > > > > > > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > > > Lucent Technologies > > > Mobility Solutions Phone: > 973-386-4966 > > > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: 973-386-4147 > > > Performance Test Team > > > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > > > Whippany, NJ 07981 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <6.2373f47d.2d727855_@_aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:03:49 EST From: RJFlei_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) N scalers - Lackawanna Coal Company Check out MR on page 23 of the April issue. The N Scale Architect will be producing these this spring. Just thought that some of you Lackawanna N scale fans might be interested. Rick Fleischer ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <24747-40413822-878_@_storefull-3315.bay.webtv.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:53:54 -0500 (EST) From: Fish_76_@_webtv.net (Joseph D. Fisher) Subject: (erielack) congrats to George Elwood. Listers For those who don't know, (and I didn't see anything posted here) George Elwood's Fallen Flags website was rated "The Best" in Model Railroader in the April 2004 issue. Even with server problems, threats of lawsuits, and the occasional computer breakdown, George has persevered and now it has paid off. I just want to congratulate you Mr Elwood for a job well done. I'm glad that all the hours of work you put into that site have finally paid off. (Now lets hope that the server doesn't overload with an influx of traffic thanks to MR) Joseph D. Fisher ELHS #3320 Generation X now has a voice http://www.conservativepunk.com ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:00:07 EST From: Hhaines_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) congrats to George Elwood. List, Speaking for myself, George has always been No. 1 for what I do with that type of material. H Haines ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: <20040228210244.T93650_@_shell.siscom.net> References: <24747-40413822-878_@_storefull-3315.bay.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: <24747-40413822-878_@_storefull-3315.bay.webtv.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:09:50 -0500 (EST) From: gelwood Subject: Re: (erielack) congrats to George Elwood. Thanks - I am continuing to press on with my site. I have picked up several new contributors and material is still available. Between what I managed to scan from the Gary Stuebben collection and the large box of slides I received from Karl Geffchen I have enough to get me into April. As the site becomes better known, I would expect the EL access to drop it into second or third. I hope to get more of the Erie drawings I have scanned and made available on line. Remember, I can only post what I receive. George Elwood http://www.rr-fallenflags.org http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: References: <20040228223844.ZQCX29216.out009.verizon.net_@_MIKADO> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:25:23 -0500 From: "curtis pope" Subject: Re: (erielack) HO Scale plaster DL&W tower kit Well I'll be! That's where I bought mine years ago, will have to check with Steve on that! Thanks Schuyler Curt - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schuyler Larrabee" To: "'curtis pope'" ; "'Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)'" ; Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 5:38 PM Subject: (erielack) HO Scale plaster DL&W tower kit > Actually, Curt and everybody else, this kit is > very much available. It is an exclusive, however, > with The Hobby Gallery, 1810 Meriden Road, Wolcott > CT 06716. I don't recall the going price, but you > can email to Steve Magnani, who owns The Hobby > Gallery, at > steve_@_hobbygallery.com > They have a website at > www.hobbygallery.com too. > The phone number is 203 879 2316 > > This was mentioned on this list about a year and a > half ago, or maybe somewhat longer. > > SGL > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net > > [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.railfan.net] On > Behalf Of curtis pope > > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:04 AM > > To: Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul); > erielack_@_lists.railfan.net > > Subject: Re: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL > structure kits > > > > Hey Paul & list; > > I guess you know that at one time Crow River > made a beautiful > > HO kit of a DL&W tower, I have one that is in > the background > > of the pics I sent you of my SD45-2. > Unfortunately it is out > > of production, but at their web site they say > they may still > > have old molds around if enough interest is > drummed up they > > might make a new run. I get more questions > about that tower > > from Ebayers because I use it a lot in my > listing photos. (I > > need to go back and repaint the roof, mine is > terracotta > > red). Would love to have one of those stations > too! > > > > Curt Pope > > ELHS#1358 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" > > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:50 AM > > Subject: (erielack) N scale DL&W/EL structure > kits > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > Not sure how many N-scalers know about these > guys, but take a look: > > > > > > http://www.the-n-arch.com/mastercraftsman.htm > > > > > > > > > > In N scale, they make laser-cut kits for the > Greendell (NJ) tower, > > > Greendell station, and they just announced the > East > > Stroudsburg tower. > > > Lucky N scalers! :) > > > > > > - Paul > > > > > > > > > Paul R. Tupaczewski_______________________ > > > Lucent Technologies > > > Mobility Solutions > Phone: 973-386-4966 > > > MASD Enterprise Apps and Fax: > 973-386-4147 > > > Performance Test Team > > > 67 Whippany Road, Room 15D-116 > > > Whippany, NJ 07981 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From Archives_@_Railfan.net Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:11:01 EST From: Njricky2_@_aol.com Subject: Re: (erielack) congrats to George Elwood. While we've not yet met, George, Fallen Flags has given me more information than I could expect from one site. Congratulations to you and thank you for providing everyone with knowledge and pieces of history that might have otherwise been lost. All the best to you. Rick Sedlisky New York, NY ------------------------------ End of EL List Daily V3 #1208 *****************************