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Re: (erielack) Erie signals

JOE
I'LL TAKE A STAB AT A FEW OF YOUR QUESTIONS, AND WILL DEFER TO THE TOWER  
MAN AND DISPATCHERS ON THE LEVER QUESTIONS.  WILL USE CAPITALS JUST TO  
SEPERAT MY RESPONSE. I FIND IT A LOT MORE LESS COMPLICATED WHEN TRYING TO  
DESIFER WHO TYPED WHAT.  SO I'M NOT YELLING JUST BECAUSE OF CAPITAL  LETTERS.
 
In a message dated 12/2/2009 2:33:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
joebraun_@_optonline.net writes:

I used  to regularly watch #1 pass through Glen Rock on the Erie Main Line.
I'd  look westbound up toward Ridgewood Junction and see what I can  now
accurately refer as the three-armed, vertically aligned signal before  the
junction. Invariably, it would be red over green over red. I just now  used
my 1964 EL operating rules to finally educate myself to the old  question as
to what this meant: "Proceed through crossovers...with entire  train at not
exceeding medium speed..."  #1 would be entering Rwd Jct  on Track 4 and
crossover to Trk 3 and then to Trk 1 for its station stop at  Ridgewood.
Makes sense!
 
YES



Further questions:

1. Are three arms used simply  because three different arms allow for more
varied patterns? In other  words, is there any significance to any one arm 
or
simply whatever pattern  is showing? A guitar has six strings and a uke just
four; so the guitar can  give more complex chords, sounds, and patterns --
but no guitar string per  se has special meaning.
 
EXACTLY.   YOU NEED THREE LIGHTS TO GIVE A SLOW CLEAR AND ONLY  TWO TO GIVE 
A MEDIUM CLEAR. THERE ARE MORE ASPECTS THAT USE ( NEED, REQUIRE )  THREE 
LIGHTS



2. I presume these signals were controlled by the tower, at  least during
hours when it was manned? Would all arms on that mast have  been dark in the
absence of a train? When would the signals be illuminated  by the tower? - 
on
notice from a previous tower?
BACK IN EL DAYS ALL INTERLOCKING SIGNALS WERE ALWAYS LIT.  MOST BLOCK  
SIGNALS WERE TO, BUT AT CERTAIN LOCATIONS APPROACH LIT SIGNALS CREP INTO THE  
SYSTEM OVER THE YEARS.   THIS IS MORE THE NORM TODAY, AS IT SAVES  BULB LIFE. 



3. What was the sequence in the Ridgewood tower (or any  tower) with, say, a
#1 due and approaching? Turnouts/crossovers set first?  Then signals? Or did
the aspect on the signals change automatically as the  towerman set the
route? 
I'LL LET THE TOWER MAN ANSWER THIS, BUT I WOULD  ASSUME THAT THE SIGNALS 
WOULD HAVE TO BE SET FIRST THEN THE  SWITCHES.
 


4.  If the signals were controlled independently of the turnouts, would  
each
arm have its own "switch"?
I BELIEVE SO ON THE SIGNALS,   AN ENTIRE CROSS OVER WOULD BE  THROWN BY ON 
LEVER.
AGAIN I'LL DEFER TO THE TOWER GUYS.



5. If say, Track 1 had just become blocked by a stalled  train or whatever
and Train #1 was sent straight up Trk 4, the signal would  have been (I
believe) green over red over red. Would it be standard  procedure for the
crew of #1 to have gotten a train order somewhere along  the line that the
normal track would not be used?
IF THE TRAIN WAS GOING UP A TRACK THAT WASN'T SIGNALED IN THE DIRECTION THE 
 TRAIN WAS HEADED, THEN IT WOULD NEED A TRAIN ORDER.  4 TRACK WAS ONLY  
SIGNALED EAST SO A  TRAIN ORDER WOULD HAVE BEEN NEEDED. A RESTRICTING WOULD  BE 
AS GOOD A SIGNAL AS A TRAIN COULD GET GOING INTO A TRACK AGAINST THE  
CURRENT OF TRAFFIC.  OF COURSE A TRAIN ORDER SIGNAL ON THE TOWER WOULD BE  LIT, 
TELLING CREWS THEY HAD AN ORDER TO PICK UP. THE RED OVER GREEN WHICH  TODAY 
IS A MEDIUM CLEAR, WOULD ONLY BE IF THE TRAIN WAS CROSSING OVER TWO A WEST  
WARD SIGNALED TRACK.



6. I presume that an engine crew approaching such a  junction with red over
green over red would only know (from the signal)  that a diverging route was
to be taken but would not know what track it  would wind up on? Or would
train orders or dwarfs convey this somehow (I  don't remember if Ridgewood
had dwarfs at the  crossovers)?
SINCE THERE WAS ONLY TWO WEST WARD SIGNALED TRACKS THEY WOULD KNOW WHICH  
TRACK THEY WERE GOING UP BY THE SIGNALS THEY WERE GETTING.   CLEAR IF  THEY 
WERE NOT CROSSING OVER , MEDIUM CLEAR IF THEY WERE.  OF COURSE  ADDITIONAL 
SIGNAL INDICATIONS MIGHT BE HAD DUE TO TRACK OCCUPANCY AHEAD.
 
BOB BAHRS



Thanks in advance.

Joe Braun  




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