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RE: (erielack) Superelevation - cant deficiency

Yes, yes, I did reread this before sending, but there is one part I kind of didn't complete:

> We supported all this on risers, like Joe, but instead of securing the plywood directly to the
> riser, we used a piece of 1x3, 

[crosswise to the ROW, and screwed to it from underneath with a small cleat (think miniature
L-girder).  The 1x3 was, in turn, screwed to the riser.  These cleats were, when necessary, shaped
so as to make the 1x3 vertical under a gradient.  Then, using the]

many many clamps (we already had them remember?) we would
> move things around until they were Just Right.  Right in elevation, right in horizontal location,
> and right in superelevation.  Once we'd achieved Justrightness, then we'd screw everything
together.
> Risers were 1x4, generally, with everything on an L-girder "table".   We used a rotating laser
level
> as a way of establishing grades, which I had figured out on CAD, and labeled the plan as it was
> drawn.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Schuyler Larrabee [mailto:schuyler.larrabee_@_verizon.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:59 PM
> To: 'EL Mail List'
> Subject: RE: (erielack) Superelevation - cant deficiency
> 
> This has been an interesting thread.  I have no home layout, so I have experience with the North
> Shore Model Railroad Club (as do several other list members . . .).  As a result, I've been
involved
> with a couple kinds of roadbed construction.
> 
> We started with spline.  We ripped lath strips in half, and spaced them with what seems like
> thousands of little blocks, about 1/2" x 3/4" x 1".  More clamps than you can shake a stick at.
We
> did risers (initially way too small at 1x2) and we vertically drilled the middle spline for a nail
> to secure it to the riser.  There are MANY ways to F*** this up.  It's NOT a good way to go.  For
> one thing, we had to learn that we had to saw both "halves" of the lath, as they are not all the
> same width, so the kind of "unsawed" side was sometimes deeper or shallower than the rest.  Doing
> the hold in the center spline made it weaker right at that point.  You have to get the riser at
> exactly the right place in the sweep of the curves or you get a kink.  And when you splice a
spline,
> you get a short straight, or straighter, section.  Sorry Paul B, I really don't like this
technique,
> after building and laying ties and rail on several hundred feet worth.
> 
> There is another technique too complicated to explain, and it doesn't work well anyway.
> 
> Lastly, we did something like Joe's version.  For the last 30+% of the layout, I drew the whole
> d*****d thing with AutoCAD, and we printed it out full size.  I broke up the various sections into
> pieces that would fit on a 36x96 plot (I didn't have access to a 48" plotter), with match marks so
> we could put the pieces together later.  Glue the plot on the plywood and have at it with the
saber
> saw, being VERY careful at the ends of the various sections.  It is a matter of insufferable pride
> on my part that when we got to a closure point of the line, having built it from both ends toward
> the middle, the last piece fit in  Just...Like....That.
> 
> We supported all this on risers, like Joe, but instead of securing the plywood directly to the
> riser, we used a piece of 1x3, which with many many clamps (we already had them remember?) we
would
> move things around until they were Just Right.  Right in elevation, right in horizontal location,
> and right in superelevation.  Once we'd achieved Justrightness, then we'd screw everything
together.
> Risers were 1x4, generally, with everything on an L-girder "table".   We used a rotating laser
level
> as a way of establishing grades, which I had figured out on CAD, and labeled the plan as it was
> drawn.
> 
> We had one interesting learning experience.  One member was responsible for buying the plywood.
He
> bought "certified plywood" at Home Depot.  We had about 40' or so of roadbed built when we began
to
> have some Very Strange Problems.  Most notable was when our chief (not to say only) tracklayer
> noticed that one of the (electrically necessary) gaps he'd left had closed up.  He Dremeled it out
> with an abrasive disk, and as he put the Dremel down, he heard this very loud "TING!"  He glanced
at
> the gap, and the rail had moved, audibly slamming together to close up the gap.  It took four
times
> Dremeling it to get it to stay open.  We started looking at things a lot, and found the shrinkage
in
> the plywood was so significant it was pulling some risers out of vertical!
> 
> Two of us did independent research into plywood.  Picture a Gomer Pyle type at the end of the
> plywood production line, saying every couple minutes "Gosh, yup, that there shure is plywood, I'd
> know that stuff anywhere!!" and he whacks it with a stamp saying "CERTIFIED PLYWOOD."  That term
> means nothing.  What does, is DFPA (Douglas Fir Plywood Association) certification, and "cabinet
> grade."  We ripped out the certified stuff, and switched to Cabinet Grade Birch Plywood, certified
> by DFPA.  (there is another worthwhile certification agency, but I forget what it is.)  This has
all
> internal voids filled, and is made with kiln dried wood, so it's dimensionally stable.
> 
> Oh, one last thing: we used finger-jointed primed trim 1x4 and 2x3, which was not cheap, but it
> doesn't warp.  Well, it's cheap in the long run . . .
> 
> SGL
> 
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Joseph A. Braun" <joebraun_@_optonline.net>
> >
> > > [Original Message Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul) Sent: Tuesday, September 30,
> > > 2008 9:03 AM
> > > >Jeff Mutter told me of a novel approach he uses - strips of
> > > >masking tape! To make the track higher, just keep layering on
> > > >more masking tape.]
> > >
> > > I will make this modelling thread totally relevant by declaring that we are,
> > > of course, modelling only the DL&W, Erie, and/or EL!!
> > >
> > > Jeff's masking tape technique for super-elevation is a terrific variant with
> > > wide applicability.
> >
> > Thanks, guys, but I have to give proper credit....I stole the idea from Bob Willer :-)
> >
> > I use 1/4" wide masking tape, layered from the start of the easement transition.  Offset the
start
> of each successive layer
> > to get a smooth transition into the superelevation -- I found between 1 and 2 inches works best.
> I use a digital level to
> > determine when I have enough superelevation, but usually about 12 to 13 layers does it.
> >
> > As an aside, I used masonite spline for subroadbed and homasote roadbed.  The masonite was glued
> together using
> > industrial-strength hot glue, and goes together quickly.  The downside is that you must sand the
> top to get a smooth
> > surface.  Unfortunately, that sanding combined with the uneven thickness of homasote, creates
lots
> of opportunities to
> > perfect your shimming technique (and your langauge skills).
> >
> > It also makes installing the superelevation challenging.  I initially tried using stripwood as
has
> been suggested, sanding
> > the ends into a smooth transition, but once track was installed, the variations in roadbed
created
> enough irregularities in
> > the track that I had tracking problems with longer cars.  Using the digital level to measure the
> actual superelevation, I
> > was able to fine-tune the numberof tape layers to accomodate the roadbed irregularities.
> >
> > Jeff Mutter
> >
> > 	The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
> > 	http://EL-List.railfan.net/
> > 	To Unsubscribe: http://Lists.Railfan.net/erielackunsub.html
> 
> 
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