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Re: (erielack) Unrealized Erie/DLW Line Improvements

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Schuyler,

Here's some information I just came across last week on this subject. It was 
included in a book entitled: ELECTRIC TRACTION FOR RAILWAY TRAINS by Edward 
P. Burch, published 1911. Attached are pages discussing Erie's and DL&W's 
projects.

The book states the the Erie's Rochester line was implemented for 
"preventing competition and for economy of operation." The DL&W proposed 
several projects as noted.

Ron Dukarm



> Jim, I've always been curious that there was not more electrification on 
> either line.
>
> I know that the DL&W had a number of studies done of electrification on 
> the main line west of East
> Stroudsburg and west of Scranton.  These were done by Louis B Stillwell's 
> office (who, BTW, was an
> electrical engineer, not a railroad or structural engineer, as most seem 
> to think).  I have some
> information on these, which I'd like to write up at some point.
>
> I also know that the ERIE seriously considered suburban electrification 
> out of Jersey City.  I was
> always thinking that was the rationale for the Rochester electrification, 
> but it turns out that
> Rochester was done essentially after all the excitement regarding the New 
> Jersey line's
> electrification studies had crashed and burned.
>
> SGL
>
>
>
>>
>> John Adams recently noted that the Erie had once considered rerouting the 
>> Delaware Division via
> Honesdale, PA.  I see
>> that this topic is discussed in the book Between the Ocean and the Lakes, 
>> which can be Googled.
> If I'm reading this
>> correctly, in the mid-1860s the Erie wanted to build a line from 
>> Honesdale up a small valley to
> Starucca Summit,
>> connecting to the already under-construction Jefferson RR from Lanesboro 
>> to Carbondale.  However,
> because the D&H
>> Canal was to fund this new line, they instead built it from Carbondale to 
>> Honesdale, which became
> a D&H branch line.
>> Jay Gould later tried to revive the Honesdale-Starucca cut-off idea, but 
>> got swept out before it
> could be started.  (So
>> perhaps Jay wasn't 100% evil after all).
>>
>> That made me wonder if there has been any research tallying all of the 
>> planned line revisions and
> improvements that
>> were considered but never built.  I remember this List had previously 
>> discussed an ambitious new
> line that the Erie had
>> considered in eastern Ohio, meant to go around the sawtooth grades west 
>> of Akron.  IIRC, the line
> would have diverged
>> from Meadville, ran through North Randall, and rejoined somewhere near 
>> Galion.
>>
>> Closer to my home town, I once saw a an Erie NY Division map indicating a 
>> proposed line that would
> have left the
>> Bergen County Line somewhere near Passaic Jct., ran slightly to the west 
>> of Ridgewood, then turned
> west and crossed
>> over or under the Main Line near Allendale, then rejoined somewhere up 
>> near Newburg Jct.  I
> suppose this was meant to
>> avoid the e/b grade from Suffern to Ramsey, which did sometimes require 
>> helpers in steam days (so
> I was told).  And
>> then there's the Montclair tunnel and Caldwell Branch shortcut that never 
>> was.  And perhaps an
> extension of the
>> Greenwood Lake line to the Erie Main near Tuxedo. Wonder what else Erie 
>> management had considered?
>>
>> On the DLW side - it seems that most of their pipedreams were turned into 
>> reality.  However, I
> thought I was told that
>> the DLW had once considered a tunnel under the Hudson to lower Manhattan. 
>> Also, there was a
> suggestion in Carleton's
>> Erie Lackawanna Story that the DL had once considered building a cut-off 
>> north of Scranton having
> a huge viaduct over
>> the Lackawanna River valley, as to keep through freights from dipping 
>> down into the valley only to
> climb out again.
>>
>> Just wondered if there was anything published on this, or does anyone 
>> know of any other proposals
> that the Erie or
>> DLW had considered?  Probably wasn't much from the EL years, other than 
>> the proposed bridge over
> the river east of
>> Binghamton, meant to join the Delaware Division with the DL&W somewhere 
>> around Conklin -
> originally part of the
>> merger plan, per a 1960 article in Trains Mag.
>>
>> Jim Gerofsky
>>
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