Chuck Yungkurth wrote: snip > > Orginally the D&H runs termianted at Owego where cars were interchanged > with the LV. Some time in the 1930's an arrangement was worked out with > the unions to allow D&H crews to run all the way to Sayre and the LV > crews to continue on to Binghamton, thus eleimianting Owego as the > interchange point. For years the LV made a day time run from Sayre to > Binghamton and back while the D&H made a trip to Sayre and return at night. Somewhat OT bu completes this discussion. The D&H obtained trackage rights over the LV at some time. Perhaps the inducement for the TRs was the LV gaining rights to Binghamton. I went in anthraciterr and Googled to find when the D&H got rights . I have struck out. If anyone there is on a D&H list would they ask there? bob gillis > > In the memories of local railfans what stood out was that for years the > LV ran Alco PA's on these trains. Since it was a short run almost > anything available was put on these trains, incuding newly shooped power > that was sent out for a break in. In steam days power was always a > 4-6-2. Probably the most unsual lashup I recall was four of the LV SW > switcher "pups"...sw this from the window of IBM in Owego where I was > working and would have dearly loved to get a shot of it! > > JJ Young and I write an extensive article on the operation which was in > the very first issue of "RAILFAN" as I recall. Last I knew Jim Lathrop, > engineer for many years on the LV train was still alive and well in Sayre. > > Chuck Yungkurth > Boulder CO > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Brezicki" <doctorpb_@_bellsouth.net> > To: "EL Mailing List" <erielack_@_lists.railfan.net> > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:35 AM > Subject: LV-D&H Trains; was: RE: (erielack) As long as we're asking > about track layouts..... > > >> This operation was intriguing for the reasons Mike mentions, plus the >> fact that interesting power often appeared, most notably the D&H >> Baldwin Sharknose units. Adding insult to injury for the EL (whose >> predecessor Erie evidently came out on the bottom of this deal), >> there's a photo in LV in Color-3 showing EL SDP45 3647 hauling NWB-4 >> on LV rails near Smithboro; the caption says May, 1973, which is >> post-Dereco! LV used Alcos primarily. By EL years the interchange was >> down to a pair of trains, FO-2/OF-1. O=Oneonta on D&H, not sure about >> the "F", perhaps N Falls or the symbol for Manchester NY, which was an >> active yard until 1967. In 1972 the symbols were changed to NWB-4 and >> BNW-3 (B&M-N&W). The operation is one reason why I'm modeling >> Bingo-Owego; I get to run trains of LV, one of my favorite RR's. >> >> Paul B >> >> From: Michael Connor <mjconnor_rr_@_hotmail.com> >> Subject: RE: (erielack) As long as we're asking about track layouts..... >> >> Bob >> The single-track Lehigh Valley went under the double-track Erie (and, >> further southwest, the DL&W) on its Sayre-Owego-Freeville-Auburn, etc. >> line. It was Bridge (JC) 249.88, a double-track Thru Plate Girder 59' >> 0" in length. The LV and Erie Center Lines were skewed the Erie being >> generally E-W and the LV running from SW to NE. >> The Sayre-Owego segment was built in 1870 as part of the >> Southern Central Railroad's Sayre-North Fair Haven (a coal transfer >> location on Lake Ontario) line. The first through trains operated on >> 3 January 1871 (though only to Auburn as the final work to NFH and the >> dock was not completed until 16 May 1872. This gave the LV (through >> its control of the SC and others) a outlet for coal on Lake Ontario. >> Until the early part of the 20th Century the line was a neighbor, and >> little else, to the Erie. >> The changed c. 1906 IIRC when the D&H acquired Trackage Rights over >> the Erie from Binghamton to Owego, 22.19 miles. As coal and other >> traffic declined the portion between Owego and Sayre became relatively >> more important, being used about 6 times daily IIRC in the mid-60's, >> twice by EB and WB LV locals to Owego and north. The D&H and the LV >> had a joint service between Sayre and Binghamton whereby a D&H crew >> operated a Binghamton-Sayre turn while an LV crew operated a >> Sayre-Binghamton turn, thereby accounting for 4 movements daily. I >> believe these trains carried traffic in both directions. >> What the Erie got from the D&H (or LV) for granting this strategic >> piece of Trackage Rights eludes me at this time (I seem to recall it >> might have involved the Erie getting access to the Moon Milling >> complex at Binghamton but that might not be the "rest of the story") >> but it was a major factor in the LV's competitive posture. The only >> saving grace, insofar as the Erie (and the DL&W, which also suffered >> from having a third railroad at Binghamton courting the D&H's traffic) >> was concerned was the the LV route involved an intermediate handling >> at Sayre while the Erie and DL&W managed to make D&H blocks from at >> least East Buffalo. >> The LV Sayre-Owego line closely paralleled the Erie east of >> Barton and the area looked like a triple-track railroad, albeit with >> the north (LV) track being clearly of a lower standard. Sometime in >> the 1960's, I understand, the LV had a derailment in this area, and >> fouled at least the EL WB Main (the tracks were very close in this >> area). A brouhaha arose, I was told, over the LV's very slow response >> so that the EL wrecker was brought to the scene and set the fouling >> derailed cars on LV property. Allegedly this kept the lawyers occupied >> for a while until cooler heads prevailed. >> Another anomaly was that the LV timetable direction between >> Sayre and Owego (and beyond) was westward while the Erie/EL's was just >> the reverse. For those of a contemplative nature this created a >> situation where Erie and LV Westbound Trains would pass each other >> while going in physically reverse directions. >> The LV between Sayre and Owego was abandoned effective 1 Apr >> 1976 in the Conrail massacre. >> Hope this answers your question and a little more. >> MJC >> >> >> >> >> The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List >> http://EL-List.railfan.net/ >> To Unsubscribe: http://Lists.Railfan.net/erielackunsub.html > > > The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List > http://EL-List.railfan.net/ > To Unsubscribe: http://Lists.Railfan.net/erielackunsub.html > The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List http://EL-List.railfan.net/ To Unsubscribe: http://Lists.Railfan.net/erielackunsub.html ------------------------------
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