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Re: (erielack) Signal question - East Lincoln Park

Ed
WYE SWITCH,?in this case is refering to a switch that diverges equally to both sides.
Bob


I don't remember any wye at Mountain View.




- -----Original Message-----
From: Montgomery, Edward T <Edward.Montgomery_@_fcps.edu>
To: EL Mail List <erielack_@_lists.elhts.org>
Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 1:13 pm
Subject: RE: (erielack) Signal question - East Lincoln Park



I don't remember any wye at Mountain View.  It's not in any ETT.  There
was the absolute signal for the crossing and the next signal was east of
the Pompton River Bridge east of Ryerson Road.  It controlled the
movements for Lincoln Park Siding and normal movements.

Ed Montgomery

 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard Pennisi [mailto:eldispatcher72_@_yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:32 AM
To: EL Mail List
Subject: RE: (erielack) Signal question - East Lincoln Park

Paul;,
   
  The westbound signal at Mt. View was over a Wye switch and I believe
it would have been a Clear Medium for movement on the Boonton Line and a
possibly a clear for movement for the Greenwood Lake Line.  I'm not
entirely sure on the signal for the Greenwood Lake line as the Wye
switch might have dictated a clear medium either route.
   
  Rich Pennisi

"Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" <paultup_@_alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
  Gordon,

> A few more details about East Lincoln Park that might be useful. I 
> don't want to appear picky, but the term "aspect"
> applies to the appearance of the entire signal as seen from an 
> approaching train. The collection of lamps or lenses in one sheet 
> metal background is still termed an "arm," dating from semaphore 
> signal days. So I think we are discussing the bottom lamp of the top 
> arm of the eastward signal from Lincoln Park siding having been 
> blanked with sheet metal.
> The lamp would have been removed because it was no longer used in any 
> of the aspects displayed by the signal. The hole in the background 
> would be blanked to prevent sunlight or other light from passing 
> through the target and giving a false indication.

Thanks for this wonderful description. Yes, I realize that "aspect" is
incorrect, but I didn't know what the correct term was. Thanks for
educating me on this! I agree with Bill Burt's comments that "arm" is
certainly archaic and outdated!

When the Boonton Line was single tracked, a vast majority of the signals
became ABS and had the lower lamp on the upper arm (using the correct
terminology now!) filled in with a metal plate.



> The best indication that the siding signal could display in
> 1975 was "Clear Medium," Red over Green, because the diverging route 
> (even though it was trailing through the
> switch) was limited to Medium Speed. So the top arm always displayed a

> red lamp. By itself, with no lamps lit in the bottom arm, it indicated

> "Stop." When the bottom arm displayed a green lamp, the indication was

> "Clear Medium,"
> Red over Green, and when the bottom arm displayed yellow, the 
> indication was "Restricting," Red over Yellow.

This is helpful for signalling - so only the bottom two lamps are
variable, and I can just keep the top lamp on consistently.



> The eastward signal governing the route from the main track retained 
> the two lamps in each arm because it displayed aspects for a normal 
> speed route. The single Red (top arm) aspect indicated "Stop." Red 
> (top arm) over Yellow (bottom
> arm) indicated "Restricting." Single yellow (top
> arm) indicated "Approach." Yellow (top arm) over Green (bottom arm) 
> indicated "Approach Medium," and single Green (bottom arm) indicated 
> "Clear," unless . . (see below).
> 
> I don't recall the indications of the eastward signal at Mountain 
> View.
> The curve itself from the Boonton Branch to the Greenwood Lake Branch 
> was limited in the time table to 30 mph. I don't remember if the best 
> indication on the eastward home signal was "Medium Clear" or "Clear;"
> that is, if EL covered the speed restriction simply in the time table,

> or if it was also enforced by the signal indication.


That would be useful information to me, too, if anyone has it?




> Good signal practice calls for the latter. If that was the case, and 
> if the eastward signals at East Lincoln Park governed the approach to 
> Mountain View, then the best indication on the main track signal at 
> East Lincoln Park could have been "Approach Medium," Yellow over 
> Green, and on the siding signal, "Medium Approach," Red over Flashing 
> Yellow.
> Also, in that case, the bottom arm of the siding signal would have 
> needed only a single yellow lamp because there was no green in any of 
> the aspects.

As stated before by Bill Sheppard, the best indication for eastbounds
off the siding at East Lincoln Park was clear medium (Red-over-Green) -
does that mean the westbound interlocking signal at Mountain View simply
gave a "Clear" indication? Since that was a signal on the Erie side, it
was a tri-head searchlight - I assume it would have shown Red-Red-Green?



> When I (as a Track Department guy) expressed my displeasure over that 
> to our signal supervisor, he told me that they used light-out relays 
> to protect against that. But of course a relay doesn't protect against

> a physical obstruction obscuring the lamp. I always considered that a 
> violation of the fail-safe principle.

Good point! But would a bird be able to build a nest that quickly? ;)

Thanks again for a LOT of good information!

- - Paul

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