(erielack) ELHS Archives.

[Dlw1el2_@_aol.com]

I am sure glad this has come up, for I guess I would die of old age  before I 
would get a personal reply from anyone on the ELHS Board of  Directors,  
although that still has a very high potential attached to  it.
 
Let me explain.   In the early fall ( Sept 2006 ) while reading  the newest 
Extra Board,  (I do not have the number offhand), I read with  complete 
amazement that the Society had been asked to move their stuff from the  University of 
Akron. I will admit I do not read everything that comes in  the Diamond or 
the Extra Boards, but at least I try to digest most of it. I  did not know that 
the Society only had a 10 year lease with U of Akron.  I  thought the 
collection was there for ever.   After my initial shock, I  thought that this may be a 
blessing in disguise, because I've have always  thought it should be in a 
more railroad related environment.   I had  been given the "cooks tour" at 
Steamtown by Pat McKnight about a year or so  before this, and I was VERY impress 
with both Pat and the whole  facility. Separating this part of the facility from 
the roundhouse and  displays opened me to a completely new perspective of  
Steamtown.  
 
With these thoughts in mind, I sent an letter to each of the  Directors that 
I had an email address for and I asked that it be forwarded to  those that I 
did not have addresses for. I conveyed my thoughts on  several aspects of the 
Archives and, in particular my thoughts that Steamtown  was the perfect match. 
I won't go into any further detail here, but I have  attached a copy of my 
letter to the end of this email, if any one  cares to read it. The only part I 
will mention here is my final sentence,  which asked the Board to, PLEASE KEEP 
ME INFORMED.   That's not what I would consider an overly outlandish request, 
even if I was a  first year member, and certainly not given my personal letter 
to  all of them, my 20 some years in the Society, and a few major Diamond  
Articles thrown in for good membership behavior.  But then again, the  ELHS  
Board never seems to learn from past mistakes, nor do they waste  an opportunity 
to thoroughly disgruntle good members.  Year after year  after year!
 
To there credit, I did get an initial response from Larry De Young  & 
Schuyler Larrabee, Which I will also enclose at the end of this  Email. Larry stated 
some of the positives he saw in Steamtown,  and the three major negatives he 
saw.  In his words "The  three issues that concern me are staffing, collection 
ownership, and  politics."   Ok.  Valid issues, but  all the more reason I 
wanted to be kept informed. Nothing in those three issues  seemed to be a 
mountain that couldn't be climbed or at least  circumvented. With some open and frank 
discussions,  some compromises,  and maybe some legal documents in uncharted 
waters, I still  had hopes  that Steamtown might be considered a valid 
solution to the Society's  problem.  As month after month passed, so did my hopes.   
After 6  months  of silence,  other things I best not mention now occupy where 
 hope once was.  I will admit, I missed the one paragraph in Extra Board #  
82, that was recently pointed out to be the all- encompassing and  all- 
informing statement to members.  I went and found it  today and read it.    Let me 
simple state that having a  preconceived idea about the ownership issues before 
you ever walk in the  door,  and then stating it as you're walking out, thus 
closing  the door, is not what I had in mind when I came to the Board or  
unfortunately a very small group of individuals,  to explore the  possibility of 
moving the archives to Steamtown. It is one of the big  reasons why I asked to 
be kept informed.  I don't look at, nor do I  appreciate either reading or 
being told of the final  decision when and if it happens as being kept informed. 
That's called being  kept uninformed!
 
 
 
I just got back from my every three-day sojourn from Croxton to Harrisburg  
and return, and I've been trying to read all the emails. No short order,  but I 
would like to touch on a few points from many of them.
 
To: Joe Schveder
 
It's going to cost to move the Archives no matter where they goes and from  
what little we are told, it has to be moved. 
Silence at the ELHS is not a work in progress, ITS A WAY OF  LIFE!
No I don't have a membership list. Do you? Does the EL Society  put one out?  
My gut instinct tells me more EL fans live in NY, NJ and  PA than other parts 
of the country. Scranton is REAL centrally located  when you look at it from 
that standpoint, and the interstate highways that lead  there from all 
directions. If it's equally, if not  more  accessible at Scranton, does it really 
matter where it is stored geographically?  And for that matter who owns it?  Are 
you upset cause it's been in your  back yard for 10 years, and you selfishly 
don't want to loose it? And  finally, I'm sorry your think all of us easterners 
are cry babies and  malcontents.  I wonder how the rest of the eastern end of 
the  membership feels about that?
 
Ken
 
Your right a lot of people over the years have contributed to the Archives  
fund including myself. Should there voices be heard? I think they should at  
least be listened to, and maybe responded to, would be a starting  point.   And 
yes, a lot have walked. Its incredible the number of  people I know that are 
Lackawanna or EL fans in a very big way, and yet  they are not and will not 
become members of the ELHS.  There are  people on this list that are not even 
members.
 
Tom Schmeider and / or Don Barnickel
 
Yes, I think having all the major EL and related roads material in one spot  
would be a GREAT draw, and yes I think Pat McKnight is very much aware of the  
material at Syracuse. First things first but....................:)
It would  also be a great draw for just individuals that want to see  that 
their own material winds up at the best possible location. Believe me, I've  had 
this discussion  many times over the years, with many,   individuals that 
have substantial collections. Be it slides, Photos   hardware, or even models,  
its very troubling to pick an institution  that you think is really going to 
fulfill all your final  wishes.  We desperately need those locations, for as 
Paul said,  It  needs to be included in everyone's WILL,  and not left to be 
thrown out by  widows who just want it gone, or given away to tomorrows  Ebay 
poachers,  who are the only ones that will profit.
  
Paul T
You ask some excellent questions that I would love to hear answers to.  What 
is the big problem with turning the whole thing over?  Is ELHS  ownership of 
the Archives more important than accessibility, preservation, and  
dissemination of the information to the society members and the general  public?  Once you 
put the ego factor aside, what's the big deal.  It will always be Material 
that came from the ELHS and they can and should  always be proud of that. The 
important thing is that it stays preserved and  is available to everyone. It 
will then be one less headache the ELHS will have  to deal with. The National 
Park Service hasn't closed a National Park in the  last 100 years and with all 
the millions that have been poured into Steamtown, I  don't think it's going 
away.  If for the sake of argument, we  consider a worst case scenario does 
anyone really think it would be put in  a warehouse somewhere and not made 
available to the public.    I  don't think so!  That's one of the little things 
Congressman and  Senators can get straitened out pretty quick.  The National 
Archives would  be a first choice.  Also look at the excellent job the Federal 
government  has done with HABS/HAER material that's available on line. Paul, Your  
expertise would sure come in handy if Steamtown proceeds to digitize the  
Archives.
 
Sure Pat McKnight WILL  probably go away someday,  but  the quicker we get  
it there, the quicker it can be established under his  capable guidance. This 
in turn means the more assured we are that  his successor will be able to 
proceed under the precedent already set by  Pat.  Had it been there already, we 
would not be discussing this  now.  Although the question has been asked,  I 
don't think I have ever  heard an answer on how much of the Archives is Cataloged, 
and how much isn't,  but needs to be? Just another answer that needs to 
addressed.
 
Mike Spinelli
Sorry to hear that if it left Akron  tomorrow, you would be left without 
Archival material,  but you know,  you guys have had the collection  for 10 years. 
 Glad your  willing to help move it.
 
Tim Stuy
What can I say?   Your experience doesn't surprise me in the  least.
 
In conclusion, the membership that's on this list has probable  gotten a 
better education on the Archives in the last 48 hours just by  the open, (although 
one sided) discussion than they have  from reading all the Extra Boards over 
the last three  years.  I would hope that the Board would chime in, open up,  
and let  us know what's happening from there side.  I think an awful lot of  
people want to know.
 
I have done research at the U of  Syracuse, the U of Akron, the  Railroad 
Museum of PA at Strassburg and at Steamtown. I still think  more then ever that 
Steamtown is the Best solution for the ELHS Archives,  its members, and for 
future generations of researchers. I think that's  something the ELHS Board needs 
to recognize.  They need to be forthright  with the wishes of the members 
that DO CARE, and start responding  positively, and openly.
 
Sincerely 
Robert R Bahrs
 
- --
- --
 
Dear ELHS Board of  Directors          Early Sept 2006
>  
> I was initially  shocked and dismayed when I recently read in 
> the Extra Board about the  Society having to remove all its 
> archives from U of Akron. I guess this  is the first this 
> information is being made available to the general  
> membership? I certainly can understand the disappointment   
> the Society must feel, after finally getting all the material 
>  to a location that one would think is going to be its permanent  home.
>  
> After I thought about it a bit, I started to  realize that  
> this possibly could be a blessing in disguise. I  have always 
> thought that it should have been in more of a railroad  
> related environment. That opportunity still exists and is 
> open  and ripe for the taking. "What I am referring to is the" 
> National Park  Service at Steamtown, in Scranton, PA.  After 
> visiting the site  and getting a tour of the whole building 
> several years ago I was  impressed to the point where I now 
> have included them in my WILL and  have been actively 
> promoting several other individuals to do the  same.
>  
> What prompted this you ask? Several things.   They have a 
> tremendous amount of unused space.  Practically the  entire 
> third floor, and large parts of the second floor. This would  
> be the three story building behind the shops. The first floor 
>  houses the NPS offices are and a large part of the archives 
> they  already have. The  construction of the building is 
> almost 98%  percent ( Lackawanna:) concrete, thus the fire 
> potential is almost nil.  The entire building and each floor 
> already has a security system in  place, plus being on 
> National Park Property it has the extra patrol  factor. One 
> VERY big plus factor is the Archivist, Pat Mc Knight who is  
> doing a superb job of getting the material they already have 
>  cataloged. More importantly he is keenly interested in 
> getting the  material available to the public and having it 
> used. No, Pat will not  be there for ever I know,  but he is 
> there NOW, and is laying some  excellent ground work. One of 
> his biggest interest is to try and get  all the Lackawanna/ 
> Erie/ EL material that still exists under one roof,  which I 
> think is a GREAT idea. Other than the Taber material at the  
> RR Museum of PA at Strassburg, which is totally out of space, 
>  this is a very realistic endeavor. The Syracuse material 
> would be much  better off at Steamtown, and that will be 
> addressed in time. As you  read this, one of the local NRHS 
> chapters is already negotiating to  turn over their large 
> collection of Lackawanna material to  Steamtown."The ELHS has 
> a tremendous opportunity to play a pivotal part  in furthering 
> this worthwhile endeavor."
> This would be the last  move this material would ever have to 
> make. There is a large amount  of  both Lackawanna and yes 
> ERIE material already in the archives  at Steamtown. You are 
> probably thinking that Steamtown is all  Lackawanna material, 
> but that is not true. They already have there a  tremendous 
> amount of material on the Jefferson and Wyoming Divisions.  As 
> a side note there is also a large amount of Erie material at  
> the U of Syracuse other than the much publicized Lackawanna 
>  material. Anyone on the EL Internet list knows how often Pat 
> has gone  out of his way to search and share with the list, 
> material that is  pertinent to a discussion and often that 
> material has been Erie  paperwork. 
>  
> It's highly unlikely that Steamtown would pay  or even be 
> involved in moving the material, but that problem exists no  
> matter where the collection goes.  A big plus is that a large  
> ?? ( I would like to know what portion) of the U of Akron 
>  material has already been cataloged, and that will go a long 
> way in  getting us in the door at Steamtown.
>  
> After reading the  Extra Board, I talked with Pat on what the 
> ELHS should do to get the  ball rolling on this. His 
> suggestion is that you write a letter  to  Kip Hagen, 
> Superintendent Steamtown National Historical Site,  150 S 
> Washington Ave, Scranton, PA 18503 expressing your interest  
> in moving the Collection. I sincerely hope that the Board 
> does  that.  If there is anything else I can do, please don't 
> hesitate  to ask, and I would ask that as a courtesy, you keep 
> me informed of  what is and is not happing with the Akron Archives.
>  
>  Sincerely
> Robert R Bahrs
>  
> PS.  I don't have  Dave Mc Wherter or Bruce Fields email 
> address.  Please supply them  with   
>        a copy of this.
>  



======================================================================
Thanks, Bob, for your note here.  Steamtown is of course a  possibility.  
However, it most likely
would require us to give up  control of the material in the Archives, which 
we are loath to do.   The
fact that Steamtown is a Federal facility does NOT mean it is there for  
ever, or that material
donated there will be there for ever,  either.

We actually have several options to pursue with the Akron  situation, which 
is quite fluid.  Staying
where it is could be a  possible result.  But Steamtown is an option which we 
should  consider.

Thanks for your concern.  We will keep you  informed.

Schuyler  
=======================================================================
 
 
Bob:

Thanks for the comments and  suggestion.  

I was told by another ELHS member that there might be  some interest on the 
part of Steamtown in having our collection there.  The  implication I read in 
that question was that if we were interested in discussing  it with them (which 
I said we were), then they would contact me.  They have  not done so.  
However, I will be happy to contact them if that is  appropriate.  The space 
situation there sounds ideal, especially if they  have climate control.  The location 
is hard to beat for the bulk of our  members.  The three issues that concern 
me are staffing, collection  ownership, and politics.  I bring up the staffing 
matter because I don’t  know the answer at Steamtown and have not explored it 
with them, and because our  very capable curator, Scott Randolph, is located 
in Indiana and would be  hard-pressed to travel often to Scranton as he does 
to Akron. If we cannot  retain ownership (or at least control) of our 
collection, especially in the  beginning (as we have learned quite vividly at Akron), 
we do not want to place  it there.  This can be explored with them.  Politics 
concern me more,  because Steamtown is a low priority in the minds of the 
National Park Service,  which thinks of itself in terms of places like Yosemite and 
even has trouble  seeing Valley Forge as part of its mission.  If the 
Congressional support  that has kept the appropriations coming to Steamtown withers, 
then we could find  ourselves in trouble there, since I have read that 
Steamtown would be one of the  first sites the NPS would shut down if it had its own 
way.  None of those  factors withstanding, however, I would be happy to 
explore the matter with them  as it could be the right place at the right  time.

Larry
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