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RE: (erielack) Special Day? What if?
Fred,
Actually, there was room in the NJDOT plan for retaining a single track by
Garrett Mountain. I don't know if the track would have been between the
lanes of I-80 or off to the south side of the highway (I don't they would
have placed it on the north side). Certainly, it would have complicated
the engineering of the road and the exits at Squirrelwood Road (west of
Garrett Mountain, but east of the Passaic River high bridge) and, to a
somewhat lesser extent, what is now Route 19 (just east of Garrett
Mountain). The catch was that the EL would receive $$$ (I believe 1-2
million, someone can correct me if I'm wrong) but only if the line was
completely severed. If the EL wished to retain the one track, they could
have, but they wouldn't have received any money. This begs the question of
the Boonton Branch being TWO tracks through Garrett Mountain and why would
the EL would give up one track in order to get nothing in return. Of
course, at that point in time, the EL was cash-strapped and very little
freight was moving via Scranton, so this appeared to be a win-win
situation. Fast forward ten years and one wonders what the EL management
was thinking...and this isn't just 20/20 hindsight, as there were those who
testified against the move and pointed out the shortsightedness of severing
the line...all to no avail...EL needed the money more than a second
high-speed freight line...or so they thought. As Zimmermann mentions in
his book, this would be a move that would come back to haunt the EL.
Chuck
"Fred Stratton"
<erief7_@_msn.com>
Sent by: To
erielack-owner_@_li Charles_Walsh@Berlex.com
sts.elhts.org paultup_@_lucent.com
cc
erielack_@_lists.elhts.org,
10/19/2006 08:55 mdelvec952_@_aol.com
AM Subject
RE: (erielack) Special Day? What
if?
Please respond to
"Fred Stratton"
<erief7_@_msn.com>
In retrospect, it would have been nice to have the Garrett Mountain line
retained with it's multi track. If the state would have balked about
dropping commuter service or cutting it back, we could have had a junction
istalled for the Greenwood Lake Branch to be serviced north of Mountain
View off the Boonton Line. Remove the diamond in MT. View, and retain the
Lackawanna's Mt. View station instead of the Erie's and cut back the
Greenwood Lake Branch south of Mt. View since alot of it closer to Hoboken
was serviced bu the D,L&W. But once agin, this is in retrospect and
hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure the homeowners along the GL would be happy not
to have long heavy trains falling in their back yard.
Fred Stratton
MP. 7.2 NS Asheville line
Salisbury, NC
From: Charles_Walsh_@_berlex.com
Reply-To: Charles_Walsh_@_berlex.com
To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" <paultup_@_lucent.com>
CC: erielack_@_lists.elhts.org, mdelvec952@aol.com
Subject: RE: (erielack) Special Day? What if?
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:26:07 -0400
>I'll agree that the DL&W was desparate...no argument there. The Garrett
>Mountain deal with NJ-DOT was definitely with the EL's management,
however,
>and Conrail used it--the abandonment of that short segment--as one reason
>for abandoning the Scranton Division 15 years later. As for the NY section
>of DL&W mainline...who knows? Actually, if the truth be known, I'm more
>upset with Perry Shoemaker than the Erie folks. Even Shoemaker
>subsequently had misgivings regarding his involvement in the EL merger.
>The big question
is what could be have done differently?
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>
> "Tupaczewski,
> Paul R (Paul)"
> <paultup_@_lucent.c To
> om> "'Charles_Walsh_@_berlex.com'"
> <Charles_Walsh_@_berlex.com>
> 10/18/2006 12:08 cc
> PM erielack_@_lists.elhts.org,
> mdelvec952_@_aol.com
> Subject
> RE: (erielack) Special Day? What
> if?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Chuck Walsh wrote:
>
>
> > Yep. We're looking at the same map...and west of Binghamton,
> > as a result
> > of the EL merger, what wasn't abandoned outright on the DL&W side was
> > eventually downgraded to branch status during the early EL
> > years (that's
> > about 200 miles of a 396 mile mainline).
>
>Wasn't
htis process started pre-merger, when the Erie and DL&W consolidated
>their lines? Remember - the DL&W was beginning to struggle, with
>consolidation and single-tracking (think Cut-Off) the result of that. All
>the EL merger did is make it easier to "rationalize." Even without the
>merger, you would have seen the Lackawanna chopping to save $$$.
>
>
>
> > In addition, the
> > Garret Mountain
> > section of the Boonton Line that you refer to, as well as the
> > mainline west
> > of Vestal, NY were sold off to the states of New Jersey and
> > New York to
> > become parts of Route I-80 and NY-17, respectively...for
> > which the railroad
> > was compensated.
>
>
>But once again, the EL merger had no bearing on this, either.
>
>By
the way, at least one person came up with a way to "resurrect the DL&W"
>- read Steve Kay's "Background history" of his HO scale Lackawanna
Terminal
>Railway here to see how he addressed restoring the DL&W:
>
>http://www.ltths.org/lack.html
>
> - Paul
>
>
>
>
> The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
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> http://www.elhts.org
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