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RE: (erielack) Special Day? What if?
Ed,
I think you've hit the nail on the head. The DL&W and NKP had a window of
opportunity to merge that had closed by the 1950s. Even though I've seen
it denied, I think it's clear that the NYC pulled strings to stop the DL&W
from expanding. The problem with the DL&W was that building to Buffalo
during the 1800s was lucrative enough, particularly with all the Scranton
anthracite traffic. But when they needed to be a bigger railroad later on
in order to survive that opportunity was already lost.
Chuck
"Montgomery,
Edward T"
<Edward.Montgomer To
y_@_fcps.edu> <mdelvec952@aol.com>
<Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com>
10/18/2006 09:21 <toddsyr_@_twcny.rr.com>
PM cc
<erielack_@_lists.elhts.org>,
<erielack-owner_@_lists.elhts.org>
Subject
RE: (erielack) Special Day? What
if?
The big stumbling block with DL&W merging with anyone was probably the New
York Central interest in the company. NYC probably stopped all Lackawanna
plans for expansion in the 1920s and probably still opposed any end-to-end
mergers in the 50s. An NKP merger would have aided in the grain traffic
because NKP hauled it in the midwest to the lake ports. I think NKP saw
the loss of revenue in the New York Metro area as another reason for not
persuing a merger in the 50's. Erie was all that was left and neither
company seemed to have a way to increase or at least stablize carloading.
Ed Montgomery
________________________________
From: erielack-owner_@_lists.elhts.org on behalf of mdelvec952@aol.com
Sent: Wed 10/18/2006 9:14 AM
To: Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com; toddsyr@twcny.rr.com
Cc: erielack_@_lists.elhts.org; erielack-owner@lists.elhts.org
Subject: Re: (erielack) Special Day? What if?
I think the DL&W / NKP marriage would have had a chance. Both roads were
well-run, well marketed, ran on good track believing in track speed. It
would have been a viable competitor New York-to-Chicago for freight in an
era when intermodal were just getting started. With the 20/20 hindsight of
history, I think Shoemaker was right in aiming toward an NKP merger;
factors outside of DL&W thought otherwise. Wabash might have been another
option (DL&W's next biggest interchange partner at Buffalo).
The other merger I thought may have had a chance would have occurred had
the EL opted to merge with the D&H at D&H's post-Conrail territories,
rather than opt to join Conrail. Connecting Montreal, New York and
Washington, D.C. with Chicago would have been a competitor to watch. The
D&H survived, so likely the D&H / EL may have.
Mike Del Vecchio
- -----Original Message-----
From: Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com
To: toddsyr_@_twcny.rr.com
Cc: erielack_@_lists.elhts.org; erielack-owner@lists.elhts.org
Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: (erielack) Special Day? What if?
This is the point where a discussion of alternative mergers, such as one
with the Nickel Plate Road, becomes relevant. Of course, by the mid- to
late-1950s, the Nickel Plate had no interest in a merger with the DL&W,
although the DL&W had increased its shares in the Nickel Plate in hopes of
a merger. In the end, it's unlikely that such a merged railroad would have
survived until even the 1980s, much less the 1990s. Even so, it might have
preserved more of the DL&W's mainline from Binghamton west, most of which
was abandoned either before or after the EL merger.
"Todd Stearns"
<toddsyr_@_twcny.rr
.com> To
Sent by: <erielack_@_lists.elhts.org>
erielack-owner_@_li cc
sts.elhts.org
Subject
Re: (erielack) Special Day?
10/17/2006 04:11
PM
Please respond to
"Todd Stearns"
<toddsyr_@_twcny.rr
.com>
Very good points Peter and I respect your position totally. You state
nothing but fact in the treatment of the ex-DLW people in post-merger
times.
Also, nothing but the truth in the Erie's somewhat inept practices. Yes, it
was a black day for the DL&W. However, due to my age, I never knew the
DL&W,
only the EL. Hence, it is the EL that I love. The day it was created will
always be a day of celebration for me due to that. Many others too. I will
always respect the DL&W, but will always be grateful for the EL, the road I
grew up near. Yes, without the merger, I would have grown up near the DL&W,
or would I? It just might have faded into oblivion without the merger. That
would have been the true "dark day" in my opinion. Respectfully yours, Todd
K. Stearns
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Heimbach" <plh5_@_charter.net>
To: <erielack_@_lists.elhts.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:24 PM
Subject: (erielack) Special Day?
> I must honestly disagree that this is a great day. To me it is a black
day
> in the history of a fine railroad, the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western
> Railroad.
>
>
>
> Read pages 146, 147 and 148 of "The Delaware, Lackawanna & Western
Railroad
> in the Twentieth Century, by Taber and Taber. Here is, to me, a clear
> description of some of what went on and how the Erie executives did not
move
> as previously agreed to.
>
>
>
> "Or as Sam Shoemaker states, in retrospect, that it was a takeover and
not
a
> merger. Lackawanna's operating and maintenance practices and procedures
in
> all departments, without exception were superior to those of Erie and had
> resulted in superior productivity and efficiency statistics. Lackawanna
was
> a better operated and managed railroad. Erie personnel were unable to
> accept any Lackawanna practice as better than Erie's and to a tragic
degree
> Lackawanna people, whether supervisors or rank and file were regarded as
> second class citizens. The effect on morale was immediate. Erie
> supervision was unable to accomplish anticipated merger savings from
> continued Erie route, facilities, and operating practices on the one hand
> and with Lackawanna routes, facilities, and operating practices being
down
> graded, if not abandoned, on the other."
>
>
>
> As I said this is a black day. None of the RR's in the northeast may
have
> lasted, but this wedding accelerated the loss of a really good RR.
>
>
>
> Pete Heimbach
>
> ELHS #2848
>
>
>
>
>
> The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
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