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RE: (erielack) Special Day? What if?
I think you're right, Ed, and that continued during the 20's. Harwood's book suggests that the Vans
were quite interested in the DL&W, but it's stock price was too high for them to be able to acquire
it. I can imagine that is one reason. The other is, however much Mr Smith of the NYC was friendly
to the Vans, and did a lot to futher their plans, I think that giving them THAT good a line to NYC
was a bit more than he or they were willing to do. The ERIE? Sure, nothing much to fear there, the
poor, ignorant, underpowered, undermaintained ERIE wouldn't help the Vans THAT much, now would it?
It's kind of surprising that Harwood doesn't mention this as a factor. At least, I didn't see it in
the book Invisible Giants.
SGL
> The big stumbling block with DL&W merging with anyone was
> probably the New York Central interest in the company. NYC
> probably stopped all Lackawanna plans for expansion in the
> 1920s and probably still opposed any end-to-end mergers in
> the 50s. An NKP merger would have aided in the grain traffic
> because NKP hauled it in the midwest to the lake ports. I
> think NKP saw the loss of revenue in the New York Metro area
> as another reason for not persuing a merger in the 50's.
> Erie was all that was left and neither company seemed to have
> a way to increase or at least stablize carloading.
>
> Ed Montgomery
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: erielack-owner_@_lists.elhts.org on behalf of mdelvec952@aol.com
> Sent: Wed 10/18/2006 9:14 AM
> To: Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com; toddsyr@twcny.rr.com
> Cc: erielack_@_lists.elhts.org; erielack-owner@lists.elhts.org
> Subject: Re: (erielack) Special Day? What if?
>
>
>
> I think the DL&W / NKP marriage would have had a chance.
> Both roads were well-run, well marketed, ran on good track
> believing in track speed. It would have been a viable
> competitor New York-to-Chicago for freight in an era when
> intermodal were just getting started. With the 20/20
> hindsight of history, I think Shoemaker was right in aiming
> toward an NKP merger; factors outside of DL&W thought
> otherwise. Wabash might have been another option (DL&W's next
> biggest interchange partner at Buffalo).
>
> The other merger I thought may have had a chance would have
> occurred had the EL opted to merge with the D&H at D&H's
> post-Conrail territories, rather than opt to join Conrail.
> Connecting Montreal, New York and Washington, D.C. with
> Chicago would have been a competitor to watch. The D&H
> survived, so likely the D&H / EL may have.
>
> Mike Del Vecchio
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com
> To: toddsyr_@_twcny.rr.com
> Cc: erielack_@_lists.elhts.org; erielack-owner@lists.elhts.org
> Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 7:18 AM
> Subject: Re: (erielack) Special Day? What if?
>
>
> This is the point where a discussion of alternative mergers,
> such as one with the Nickel Plate Road, becomes relevant. Of
> course, by the mid- to late-1950s, the Nickel Plate had no
> interest in a merger with the DL&W, although the DL&W had
> increased its shares in the Nickel Plate in hopes of a
> merger. In the end, it's unlikely that such a merged
> railroad would have survived until even the 1980s, much less
> the 1990s. Even so, it might have preserved more of the
> DL&W's mainline from Binghamton west, most of which was
> abandoned either before or after the EL merger.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Todd Stearns"
>
> <toddsyr_@_twcny.rr
>
> .com>
> To
> Sent by:
> <erielack_@_lists.elhts.org>
> erielack-owner_@_li
> cc
> sts.elhts.org
>
>
> Subject
> Re: (erielack) Special
> Day?
> 10/17/2006 04:11
>
> PM
>
>
>
>
>
> Please respond to
>
> "Todd Stearns"
>
> <toddsyr_@_twcny.rr
>
> .com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Very good points Peter and I respect your position totally.
> You state nothing but fact in the treatment of the ex-DLW
> people in post-merger times.
> Also, nothing but the truth in the Erie's somewhat inept
> practices. Yes, it was a black day for the DL&W. However, due
> to my age, I never knew the DL&W, only the EL. Hence, it is
> the EL that I love. The day it was created will always be a
> day of celebration for me due to that. Many others too. I
> will always respect the DL&W, but will always be grateful for
> the EL, the road I grew up near. Yes, without the merger, I
> would have grown up near the DL&W, or would I? It just might
> have faded into oblivion without the merger. That would have
> been the true "dark day" in my opinion. Respectfully yours,
> Todd K. Stearns
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Heimbach" <plh5_@_charter.net>
> To: <erielack_@_lists.elhts.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:24 PM
> Subject: (erielack) Special Day?
>
>
> > I must honestly disagree that this is a great day. To me it is a
> > black
> day
> > in the history of a fine railroad, the Delaware, Lackawanna
> & Western
> > Railroad.
> >
> >
> >
> > Read pages 146, 147 and 148 of "The Delaware, Lackawanna & Western
> Railroad
> > in the Twentieth Century, by Taber and Taber. Here is, to
> me, a clear
> > description of some of what went on and how the Erie executives did
> > not
> move
> > as previously agreed to.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Or as Sam Shoemaker states, in retrospect, that it was a
> takeover and
> not
> a
> > merger. Lackawanna's operating and maintenance practices and
> > procedures
> in
> > all departments, without exception were superior to those
> of Erie and
> > had resulted in superior productivity and efficiency statistics.
> > Lackawanna
> was
> > a better operated and managed railroad. Erie personnel
> were unable to
> > accept any Lackawanna practice as better than Erie's and to a tragic
> degree
> > Lackawanna people, whether supervisors or rank and file
> were regarded
> > as second class citizens. The effect on morale was
> immediate. Erie
> > supervision was unable to accomplish anticipated merger
> savings from
> > continued Erie route, facilities, and operating practices
> on the one
> > hand and with Lackawanna routes, facilities, and operating
> practices
> > being
> down
> > graded, if not abandoned, on the other."
> >
> >
> >
> > As I said this is a black day. None of the RR's in the
> northeast may
> have
> > lasted, but this wedding accelerated the loss of a really good RR.
> >
> >
> >
> > Pete Heimbach
> >
> > ELHS #2848
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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