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RE: (erielack) Special Day? What if?



The big stumbling block with DL&W merging with anyone was probably the New York Central interest in the company.  NYC probably stopped all Lackawanna plans for expansion in the 1920s and probably still opposed any end-to-end mergers in the 50s.  An NKP merger would have aided in the grain traffic because NKP hauled it in the midwest to the lake ports.  I think NKP saw the loss of revenue in the New York Metro area as another reason for not persuing a merger in the 50's.  Erie was all that was left and neither company seemed to have a way to increase or at least stablize carloading.
 
Ed Montgomery

________________________________

From: erielack-owner_@_lists.Railfan.net on behalf of mdelvec952@aol.com
Sent: Wed 10/18/2006 9:14 AM
To: Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com; toddsyr@twcny.rr.com
Cc: erielack_@_lists.Railfan.net; erielack-owner@lists.Railfan.net
Subject: Re: (erielack) Special Day? What if?



I think the DL&W / NKP marriage would have had a chance.  Both roads were well-run, well marketed, ran on good track believing in track speed.  It would have been a viable competitor New York-to-Chicago for freight in an era when intermodal were just getting started.  With the 20/20 hindsight of history, I think Shoemaker was right in aiming toward an NKP merger; factors outside of DL&W thought otherwise. Wabash might have been another option (DL&W's next biggest interchange partner at Buffalo).

The other merger I thought may have had a chance would have occurred had the EL opted to merge with the D&H at D&H's post-Conrail territories, rather than opt to join Conrail.  Connecting Montreal, New York and Washington, D.C. with Chicago would have been a competitor to watch. The D&H survived, so likely the D&H / EL may have.

Mike Del Vecchio

- -----Original Message-----
From: Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com
To: toddsyr_@_twcny.rr.com
Cc: erielack_@_lists.Railfan.net; erielack-owner@lists.Railfan.net
Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: (erielack) Special Day? What if?


This is the point where a discussion of alternative mergers, such as one
with the Nickel Plate Road, becomes relevant.  Of course, by the mid- to
late-1950s, the Nickel Plate had no interest in a merger with the DL&W,
although the DL&W had increased its shares in the Nickel Plate in hopes of
a merger.  In the end, it's unlikely that such a merged railroad would have
survived until even the 1980s, much less the 1990s.  Even so, it might have
preserved more of the DL&W's mainline from Binghamton west, most of which
was abandoned either before or after the EL merger.



                                                                          
             "Todd Stearns"                                               
             <toddsyr_@_twcny.rr                                            
             .com>                                                      To
             Sent by:                  <erielack_@_lists.Railfan.net>         
             erielack-owner_@_li                                          cc
             sts.elhts.org                                                
                                                                   Subject
                                       Re: (erielack) Special Day?        
             10/17/2006 04:11                                             
             PM                                                           
                                                                          
                                                                          
             Please respond to                                            
              "Todd Stearns"                                              
             <toddsyr_@_twcny.rr                                            
                   .com>                                                  
                                                                          
                                                                          




Very good points Peter and I respect your position totally. You state
nothing but fact in the treatment of the ex-DLW people in post-merger
times.
Also, nothing but the truth in the Erie's somewhat inept practices. Yes, it
was a black day for the DL&W. However, due to my age, I never knew the
DL&W,
only the EL. Hence, it is the EL that I love. The day it was created will
always be a day of celebration for me due to that. Many others too. I will
always respect the DL&W, but will always be grateful for the EL, the road I
grew up near. Yes, without the merger, I would have grown up near the DL&W,
or would I? It just might have faded into oblivion without the merger. That
would have been the true "dark day" in my opinion. Respectfully yours, Todd
K. Stearns

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Heimbach" <plh5_@_charter.net>
To: <erielack_@_lists.Railfan.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:24 PM
Subject: (erielack) Special Day?


> I must honestly disagree that this is a great day.  To me it is a black
day
> in the history of a fine railroad, the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western
> Railroad.
>
>
>
> Read pages 146, 147 and 148 of "The Delaware, Lackawanna & Western
Railroad
> in the Twentieth Century, by Taber and Taber.  Here is, to me, a clear
> description of some of what went on and how the Erie executives did not
move
> as previously agreed to.
>
>
>
> "Or as Sam Shoemaker states, in retrospect, that it was a takeover and
not
a
> merger.  Lackawanna's operating and maintenance practices and procedures
in
> all departments, without exception were superior to those of Erie and had
> resulted in superior productivity and efficiency statistics.  Lackawanna
was
> a better operated and managed railroad.  Erie personnel were unable to
> accept any Lackawanna practice as better than Erie's and to a tragic
degree
> Lackawanna people, whether supervisors or rank and file were regarded as
> second class citizens.  The effect on morale was immediate.  Erie
> supervision was unable to accomplish anticipated merger savings from
> continued Erie route, facilities, and operating practices on the one hand
> and with Lackawanna routes, facilities, and operating practices being
down
> graded, if not abandoned, on the other."
>
>
>
> As I said this is a black day.  None of the RR's in the northeast may
have
> lasted, but this wedding accelerated the loss of a really good RR.
>
>
>
> Pete Heimbach
>
> ELHS #2848
>
>
>
>
>
> The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
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