Re: (erielack) NYC sleepers from Buffalo Central Terminal to DL&W terminal

[Dlw1el2_@_aol.com]

In a message dated 2/21/2006 5:30:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
root_@_net.bluemoon.net writes:
 
 
Not pretending to know anything about the passenger moves at Buffalo, I  
forwarded the email questions to the ONE guy and friend, that I knew would know  
the answers. Art Tross has a fabulous memory of Buffalo Div  operations, 
especially on the passenger side. Here is Arts   reply:
 In the 1950's a sleeper was handled on NYC train 44 from  Detroit.  This car
was delivered to tdhe DL&W at the jct with the  NYC and NKP by the NYC.  A
DL&W switch engine would pick it up and  take to the terminal where it would
be placed for occupancy by passenger  boarding at Buffalo.  The switch
engine would be one of the two working  at the terminal.  The car was
usually ready for occupancy around  midnight.  This car went east on Train
2, the Pocono Express.   Westbound the car arrived on Train 5, The Twilight
and was cut off the rear  of Train 5 at the jct.  It would then be placed on
the NYC on any  interchange track by a switch engine.  I do not remember if
it had to be  a switch engine or if a puller (transfer engine) could do the
job. The  pullers were manned by members of the BRT and union rules
prevented them from  doing any yard switching.  Switch engines were manned
by members of the  SUNA.  I believe that the Lackawanna was the only RR in
the east where  switchmen were represented by SUNA.  This car was scheduled
to go west  on NYC 47. their fancy all private room streamliner from New
York to  Detroit.  The car must have seen out of place on this train as it
was a  heayweight car with open berths.

Art  Tross

 
 
 
 

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On Mon, 20 Feb 2006,  Michael Mang wrote:

> I can speculate as follows: there is a direct  connection between the
> Lackawanna and the NYC at N.Y.C.& St.L.  Junction in Buffalo. I have an
> employee timetable giving local  instructions that indicate when the
> semaphore signal was in an  "inclined position, green light displayed at
> night," that movement  could be made over the yard lead to the N.Y.C.
> interchange tracks.  
> 
> If we look at Henry's maps of the Buffalo area
>  (http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/trainthumb.cgi?maps/1950usgs/) we see  that
> the DL&W crossed over the Buffalo River, then over the NKP.  There was a
> small yard to the south of the DL&W, then the railroad  crossed over the 
NYC.
> That yard has connections to both the NKP and  the NYC. 

Note that this routing would have the sleeper facing the  opposite direction
for the remainder of the trip. There must have been some  short steep grades
to negotiate for the interchange tracks where the  DL&W passed over the NYC.

I have attached a snippet from my 1926  Sanborn map showing the area described
above.

My 1926 Sanborn map  labels that yard area as "Nickel Plate & DL&WRR Junction
Tracks."  Interestingly, the connecting track from the DL&W appears to join
with  the Erie's line to the waterfront and would have required a backup move
(it  looks like a switchback) to interchange with the NYC. The 1901 map  also
looks like this, but a 1894 Buffalo city atlas shows a direct  connection
without the Erie crossing the NYC to get to the lakefront. The  1889 to 1900
Sanborn map (no date on the page itself) shows a direct  connection with the
LS&MS (NYC) and no connection at all with the Erie.  I don't have any maps 
with
track detail which cover the 1929 to 1970 period  so I can't say with any
authority what the track arrangement was at this  location during the Central
Terminal years. I don't remember there being  any connection left there in 
1976
and the one photo I shot near there  doesn't have enough detail to  tell:
http://www.railfan.net/railpix/railfan/safariphoto.cgi?teenager/compro1.jpg
I  think you can just see the Erie coming in from the left in the center of  
the
photo which would be near NYC's SS FO and Katherine St.  NYC's  Buffalo River
bridge (SS RB) is just around the bend in the distance. The  LS&MS shops and
yard covered this whole visible area. It was shot  between what was NYC's 
Tower
50 and SS SP.

I know the trackage in  that immediate area changed dramatically from 1880 to
1940 as the LS&MS  had their engine facilities and car shops on the north side
of the DL&W  which became redundant as consolidation with the NYC&HR (NYC
lines  east) progressed over the course of several decades.

Another routing  could have been via the Buffalo Creek from just west of
Central Terminal to  the NKP Jct connection near Buffalo Jct which would keep
the sleeper facing  the same way. Because that would involve two more RRs, it
was probably not  done that way unless track maintenance or a derailment
prevented using  .

> Since those sleepers were coming from Detroit, they would have  followed the
> Michigan Central through Ontario into Buffalo via the  International Bridge.
> Which NYC line was followed to Central Terminal  I do not know, but once
> there the NYC could bring the car out of  Central terminal, down the main
> line towards Chicago, to the  interchange track along the DL&W main. It is
> then about a mile and  a half to the DL&W station from that point. 

I don't know of any  passenger trains which regularly used the NYC's Belt Line
after Belt Line  commuter service ended in the early 1920's. I am sure it 
would
have used  the Niagara Branch through downtown, ironically passing only 1/3 of
a mile  from DL&W terminal as the crow flies.

> If my speculation is  correct, did a DL&W switcher wait at the interchange
> and take the  car from the NYC, or did the NYC bring the car all the way 
into
> the  DL&W station?  

I have no idea, but I have never seen a photo  of an NYC loco in DL&W terminal
or on its  approaches.

Henry





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