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Re: (erielack) Odd signal



Chuck,
When I said "fudge," I meant that the bridge might have interrupted the 
normal pattern of 1 mile or 1½ mile blocks.  The blocks ending at the 
bridge might have been of unusual length simply to get double use of the 
signals at the bridge--block signals and signals to protect the bridge.

Most of the Erie's main line signals, IIRC, were single target signals.  
If the bridge signal were red over red, the preceeding block signal 
would display amber if there were a train in that block or approaching 
that block.  The signals at the bridge remained lit all the time, while 
the other block signals were lit when a train was approaching the signal 
or was in the block following the signal.  While a kid at the Carlton 
Hill station, I remember often watching a train proceed east, which 
turned the signal at Carlton Hill from green to red.  When the train 
cleared the block (probably at Bergen Junction), the Carlton Hill signal 
would turn amber for less than a second and then go out, unless there 
were a train approaching the signal.

A question for you signal maintainers:  I assume that the purpose of 
having the signals not lit when there was no train in or approaching the 
block was to save electricity.  Did the savings in electricity offset 
the additional wear on the bulbs from turning them on and off?


Ken Bush

Charles_Walsh_@_berlex.com wrote:

>Ken,
>
>I'm sure that red over red was absolute stop, but this raises the further
>question of whether there was a speed restriction on the bridge?  By
>"fudge" the block distances, do you mean so that the train would take
>approximately the same amount of time per block, although the block lengths
>differed in length?  Of course, if the bridge were up, the bridge signal
>(M.P. 10.7) would presumably show red over red and the signal at M.P. 11.3,
>for example, would show yellow over red(?)  I guess the bridge signal would
>display green over red (clear) if the bridge were down (and no trains were
>occupying adjacent blocks) but maximum speed would be governed by speed
>restriction rather than signal indication at that point?
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>                                                                                                                                
>                      erie910                                                                                                   
>                      <erie910_@_fastmai                                                                                          
>                      l.fm>            To:     Charles_Walsh_@_berlex.com                                                         
>                                       cc:     erielack_@_lists.railfan.net                                                       
>                      08/16/2005 10:33         erielack-owner_@_lists.elhts.org                                                   
>                      AM                       Michael Sheehy <njnyrr_@_optonline.net>                                            
>                                               "Paul R. Tupaczewski" <paultup_@_optonline.net>                                    
>                                               Hank Sundermeyer <sunderhj_@_att.net>                                              
>                                       Subject:                                                                                 
>                                               Re: (erielack) Odd signal                                                        
>                                                                                                                                
>
>
>
>Chuck,
>To the best of my knowledge, which now is 35+ years old, the lower signal
>always displayed red and the upper had three aspects--red, yellow, green.
>This fits in somewhat with the discussion of the block length, since it
>appears that the signals which protected the bridge were also block
>signals.  That means that the block length probably was fudged to fit the
>need for the signals at the bridge.  Perhaps someone with a signal chart
>from the 1960's could advise definitively what red over red meant, but I
>believe that it was an absolute stop, lest one take the plunge, either off
>the rail because of the derail or into the drink.
>
>Also, the eastbound signal protecting the Passaic River bridge was just
>east of the Passaic Park station, M.P. 10.7.  The next block signal east
>was at the north end of the Carlton Hill station (pre-abandonment of the
>Main Line through downtown Passaic), M.P. 11.3.  Assuming that the signal
>at Passaic Park were a block signal also, that made the block between
>Passaic Park and Carlton Hill about .6 mile, or maybe a few feet longer.
>If I recall, the next eastbound block signal west of  Passaic Park was east
>of downtown Passaic, perhaps M.P. 12.3 or so--my memory fails me on the
>street names.
>
>
>Ken Bush
>
>Charles_Walsh_@_berlex.com wrote:
>      Ken,
>
>      I'm curious, if you recall, did the lower signal always display red?
>      And
>      how many aspects did the upper signal have?
>
>      Chuck
>
>
>
>                            erie910
>
>                            <erie910_@_fastmail.f
>
>                            m>                  To:     Michael Sheehy
>      <njnyrr_@_optonline.net>
>                            Sent by:            cc:     Hank Sundermeyer
>      <sunderhj_@_att.net>
>                            erielack-owner_@_list         "Paul R.
>      Tupaczewski" <paultup_@_optonline.net>
>
>                            s.elhts.org
>      erielack_@_lists.railfan.net
>
>                                                Subject:
>
>                                                        Re: (erielack) Odd
>      signal
>                            08/15/2005 11:41 AM
>
>                            Please respond to
>
>                            erie910
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      These appear to be the signals which protected the bridge over the
>      Passaic River between Passaic Park and Carlton Hill.  There were two
>      signal heads on a mast, and the bottom had the green blanked out.
>
>      Ken Bush
>
>      Michael Sheehy wrote:
>
>
>            I believe there is one just north of the Pearl River, NY
>            station.
>
>            -----Original Message-----
>            From: erielack-owner_@_lists.elhts.org
>            [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.elhts.org]On Behalf Of Hank
>            Sundermeyer
>            Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 1:02 PM
>            To: Paul R. Tupaczewski; erielack_@_lists.railfan.net
>            Subject: Re: (erielack) Odd signal
>
>
>            Hi, Paul
>
>            The triangle tricolors existed on the NY Division as well.  If
>            you look in
>            your EL in Color volumes, you'll find a shot in Passaic with
>            one, also I
>            believe they existed on the signal bridges on the passenger
>            mainline
>
>      segment
>
>            that ran in between croxton yard and the DLW Boonton main.
>
>            Hank
>            ----- Original Message -----
>            From: "Paul R. Tupaczewski" <paultup_@_optonline.net>
>            To: <erielack_@_lists.railfan.net>
>            Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:40 PM
>            Subject: (erielack) Odd signal
>
>
>
>
>
>                  NOTE: This message had contained at least one image
>                  attachment.
>                  To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and
>                  paste the
>                  following URL into your web browser:
>
>
>                  http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-08-11-05
>
>                  odd-signal.jpg (image/jpeg, 185x493 27926 bytes, BF: 3.27
>                  ppb)
>
>                  Hi folks,
>
>                  Was going through some more photos today, and found an EL
>                  freight
>                  train passing the signal in the attached image.  The
>                  image is somewhere
>
>      in
>
>                  New York's Southern Tier, I believe. How many of these
>                  triangle-shaped-indication signal heads did they have?
>                  Were these the
>
>      only
>
>                  ones? (there's another on the opposite side of the track,
>                  facing the
>
>      other
>
>                  way)
>
>                  - Paul
>
>                  --
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>                  Date: 8/11/2005
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