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Re: (erielack) Speaking of radios & Speed Signs
Bob,
I see your point that the signs could easily be out of date, particularly
if superelevation were changed. Still, as with this morning's Japanese
catastrophe where 50+ people were killed--and the engineer was thought to
have been doing 75 mph+ on a 45 mph curve (he was late and making up time)
- --I'm wondering if the signs aren't a good last-ditch reminder. I still am
impressed by the cab displays in the Washington Metro when I first saw them
back in 1980-81...displays for actual speed and the posted speed limit. I
don't know, but I think even the best engineer can stargaze once in a while
and lose track of exactly where he (she) is. The more safeguards in place
the better...in my opinion.
Chuck
Dlw1el2_@_aol.com
04/22/2005 09:57 To: Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com
PM Smtimko_@_aol.com
cc: erielack_@_lists.railfan.net
erielack-owner_@_lists.elhts.org
vze3fhdr_@_verizon.net
wpdj61_@_optonline.net
Subject:
Re: (erielack) Speaking of radios & Speed Signs
In a message dated 4/22/2005 7:45:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com writes:
What about permanent speed restriction signs for speed restricted curves?
The DL&W used them throughout their system with a black rectangular metal
sign market with the speed limit at that point --e.g., 65--cut out of the
metal, for visibility day or night. If another speed restriction occurred
within 2(?) miles, a second diamond-shaped yellow marker (showing the
second speed restriction) was placed above the black marker. In
situations, such as on the NJ Cut-Off, where there were long stretches
without any speed restrictions, a single yellow market was placed in
advance of the actual speed restriction--it was a fixed distance, but I'd
have to consult an old employee timetable to confirm the exact
distance--and then a single black marker was placed at the actual start of
the permanent speed restriction. This was a simple and elegant way to
post
the speed limits and I wonder why these signs weren't maintained or
replaced over time post-EL.
To All
Just some thoughts!
I don't think distance came into play here. If the next change of speed
was a 1/4 mile away or 5 miles away, the yellow diamond was informing (
reminding ) you of it. If there is a posting of a set distance for a single
yellow diamond, please advise..
Some of the reasons for not keeping this system up to snuff, was that the
RR was constantly changing. A forty mile an hour curve one year might be a
35 MPH curve the next. Then you get into who was speeding and who wasn't
via what authority and why wasn't the speed sign corrected, etc etc. I
believe these signs were not meant to convey authority, just act as
reminders. Time Tables and Bulletin Orders conveyed authority. Just
not having additional ( surplus ) signs probable also added to territory's
not being kept up snuff. Also track gang foremen probable had many other
pressing needs, than to worry about reminder speed sign correctness.
Probable ripping the sign out was more convenient than trying to keep it
correct for the track dept.
What's interesting, is these old Lackawanna signs are not mentioned in any
old Lackawanna Rule books, but are very clearly described on page 59 of the
Black 1964 Erie Lackawanna book of Rules. Maybe it was a given on the
Lackawanna, but something the EL officials figured they better get in
writhing for ex Erie people to understand since there were hundreds of
them out there? If someone finds a reference to them in an old Lackawanna
book please advise. Maybe I missed it?
Did any of these get placed in former Erie Territory after the merger?
Bob Bahrs
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