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Re: (erielack) Three Questions - Mail Trains



Some facts about trains 3 and 4.  Even though they did not appear in the
Form 1, Public Timetable, they still were operated as and appeared in the
divisional Employee Timetables as First Class Trains.  Over most
sub-divisions -  not all -  they carried a note that said they "... may
depart any station in advance of time if all traffic due has been delivered
and received."

An interesting tidbit about train 3 - from the time train 7 was changed to
train 3, its routing was changed to operate over the Buffalo Division and
River Line between Hornell and CB Junction, instead of the mainline.  This
routing lasted until the demise of trains 1 and 2, the Phoebe Snow.  I'm
guessing this was done to avoid a meet between Trains 2 and 3 on the single
track, 4th subdivision mainline, probably  around Alfred.  (It wouldn't have
done much good to allow #3 to depart ahead of schedule if it would only have
to wait in the hole!)  To my knowledge, train 3 was the only first class
train ever to be scheduled to run via Erie's River Line - at least in the
modern era.  After the discontinuance of train 2, train 3 was routed back to
the mainline until its demise.

Vinnie
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JG at graytrainpix" <graytrainpix_@_hotmail.com>
To: <erielack_@_lists.railfan.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 2:38 PM
Subject: (erielack) Three Questions - Mail Trains


> Now that the Morristown Bumping Block controversy is over (which
admittedly
> was pretty cool, much like a courtroom drama; the jury ponders one set of
> evidence, then gets swayed by a new set of facts, both sides arguing
> vehemently until the clincher finally arrives!), I'd like to get back to a
> less controversial subject, i.e. the Erie / EL mail trains to Chicago.  To
> respond to Bill Romanyshyn's question a few days ago about trains 3, 4, 7
> and 8: trains 7 and 8 were Erie's Pacific Express and Atlantic Express,
> respectively, which were primarily mail trains but carried passengers and
> offered part-way diner and sleeper services.
>
> According to Erie's Jan. 17, 1959 schedule, 7 left Hoboken at 1245 am and
> arrived in Chicago at 1:30 am (Central Time), carrying a sleeper from
> Hoboken to Salamanca.  Number 8 left Chicago 1010 pm with two sleepers,
one
> for Akron and one for Meadville.  It arrived in Hoboken at 9:45 pm
(Eastern
> Time) the next day. Things didn't change too much at first on the EL.  The
> October 29, 1961 schedule indicates a 12:30 am departure for 7 with a
> sleeper to Hornell, having an arrival in Chicago at 1:15 am.  Number 8
left
> Chicago at 10:05 pm with the same two sleepers as on the Erie, and arrived
> in Hoboken at 9:55 pm. (Recall Jim Boyd reminiscing in an old Railfan Mag
> about having a few hours to kill in Chicago before catching a late night
> train, so he and some friend with a car drove to various downtown stations
> and got time exposures, including the Atlantic Express at Dearborn with
> PA's; ah, the golden era of railfanning).
>
> On the NY Division, number 7 used the Bergen County Line, while number 8
had
> a scheduled stop in Paterson, so it used the Main.  I have an Oct. 25,
1964
> NY Division timetable showing number 7 leaving Hoboken at 1:15 am and
number
> 8 arriving in Hoboken at 12:30 am; I don't have the corresponding Chicago
> times.  So the EL was tinkering a little with the schedule.  I believe
that
> sleeper and diner service had ended either in '62 or '63.  An April 30,
1965
> NY Division schedule indicates that numbers 7 and 8 were still carrying
> passengers, but an August 1, 1965 system timetable no longer showed them
> (footnote: the old Erie Main Line via downtown Passaic was gone by mid-63,
> but number 8 still had a Paterson stop, and thus ran via the "revised Main
> Line" thru Lyndhurst and Kingsland).
>
> As to the successor no-passenger trains 3 and 4, employee timetables from
> April 30, 1967 indicate that number 3 left Hoboken at 1:15 am and arrived
in
> Chicago at 2:00 am the next day; number 4 left Chicago at 9:15 pm and
> arrived in Hoboken at 10:35 pm.  Number 4 did not have Paterson work
> anymore, and thus it usually ran via the Bergen County Line (as with
number
> 3 and 7 all along).  So, the overall schedule for 3 and 4 wasn't that much
> different from 7 and 8 on the Erie in 1959.  The Post Office canned the
RPO
> contract and thus 3 and 4 were taken off on Feb. 18, 1968.
>
> About solid TOFC trains: NY99 and 100 usually had some boxcars with
> forwarder / LCL traffic mixed in with the TOFC blocks, thru the early 70s.
> There may have been occasions when traffic was heavy and an all TOFC
section
> ran during the 60s, such as the brief-lived Advance NY99 in 1968.  But as
to
> regular all-TOFC service, that probably would have been Second NY-100 and
> Croxton 99 with the start of the UPS contract in 1970.  But maybe PB99 and
> PB100 to Boston via Binghampton ran all-TOFC when they started back in
1968
> ??
>
> Hope this helps a bit.
>
> Jim Gerofsky
>
>
>
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