(erielack) ES99 Sept 12, 1975 Point of Rocks wreck > CNJ list stuff > long...

[David Goessling <dgoessling_@_lucent.com>]

Here's the meat of the CNJ list discussion on this topic. Mostly posted 
by Bob Hoeft

dmg

/From:/ "Bob Hoeft" <cnjrules_@_...>
/Date:/ Fri Mar 25, 2005  4:35 pm
/Subject:/ RE: [CRRNJ] Re: ES99 Sept 12, 1975


"Since everybody in our group has been reading the messages going back 
and forth between Joe Fisher, myself and others regarding the wreck of 
ES-99 at Point Gap, Pennsylvania, I am going to post Mike Wikman's 
response as it tells where all the bodies are buried. Now you will read 
of the Point Gap wreck from Mike Wikman, who not only was there but was 
in management as a team player to create a better railroad only to be 
rebuffed by incompetent higher management. Bob Hoeft

P.S. I will not comment on Mike's politics. Many agree with him and many 
disagree, however, we can't let these things ruin our health by letting 
them knaw away at us. Mike. Thanks for responding. Regards to Lorraine 
and family. Bob

 

From: "hogger" <hogger_@_... 
<http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/CRRNJ/post?postID=viffspUYSUex3B__wushXIDGBdMM7C1TasMhnTKCazAYzoxE0osJpTiwQWkYKSiM9msXCCZFbwlTyw>
To: "'Bob Hoeft'" <cnjrules_@_... 
<http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/CRRNJ/post?postID=Ob-OLY6_tBSgfp7XutZA_XzILd07FQqYNcQih6YNg11uZSXtmP80ILGOTqW09ZaNMlHiv5c2j_RQzPcE>
Subject: RE: [CRRNJ] Re: ES99 Sept 12, 1975
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:36:27 -0600

 

Bob,

Nice to hear from you. I appreciate your kind comments. I have been in 
northern Minnesota for 8 days now at below zero temperatures burrrrrrr. 
On the North Shore mining teaching engineers and riding 156 car ore 
trains in snow. Yes snow lots of it and don't forget below zero 
temperatures. For a guy of 71 its rough.

To begin with I don't belong to the group any more as I got tired of all 
the insults of my beliefs and I guess I shouldn't say what I did but I 
have said what is on my mind for years now and paid dearly for it but I 
would do it again if I had to. Why lie about things and beat bushes huh? 
 I don't know the whole story of what is said in this letter but I will 
jump in and answer it the best way I can. So sit back relax and I will 
start my mind up..Joe Fisher..

 

To begin with I had a hate on for Jack Kithcart for a few years before 
he got to be a superintendent. He was local Chairman in Port Jervis, NY 
and I was asst Local Chairman in Port Morris NJ, I was the one that 
helped get the miles we deserved for work in Port Jervis and Kithcart 
wrote the Grand Chief engineer Davidson in Cleveland that I was a thief 
and should be run out of the BofLE. I never got along with him totally.

 

Now the story. I don't believe Sipple was in on this. I didn't think too 
much for him either. I could tell you some great stories about him and 
what he did to and for me as he was my boss.   I was on the CNJ riding 
the train ES99 1974 I got permission to qualify CNJ men on the EL can 
you believe this?? by Gnl Supt Wogan. We came to point of gap curve on 
the DL&W it was 40 mph and in the middle of the curve we learched 
outward violently. I told the dispatcher and when I got to Scranton I 
went to the chief Dispatchers (M.S. Harvey) office and told him of the 
bad spot on the curve he told me he can't make decisions only Kithcart can.

 

So I went to Kithcart's office and went in and told him of the bad spot 
on the railroad. He looked up from his desk and insulted me as he always 
did and told me it was his railroad and he would do what he wants to 
with it and I was welcome to leave which I did. Harvey was out side the 
door and heard it all. He asked me why I put up with this garbage . You 
see nobody liked him except a few ass kissers like Pat Hennesey (RFofE) 
for one. I left and worked ES98 back to Long Valley the next day and saw 
there was no sped restriction on the curve at Point of Gap and I thought 
they fixed the problem......well they didn't and I hit the curve at 20 
or so MPH and we still learched out bad and I called the dispatcher 
again and he acknowledged the conversation and we went on our way.

 

I got off the train at Long Valley where I lived wife picked me up and 
said to call Dave Eslick as soon as I get home. I did and got the shock 
of my life. ES99 just wrecked at the point of Gap curve and they don't 
know where the engineer is. He told me John Korpita was driving to my 
home to pick me up and drive to the wreck. I told John if Kithcart is 
there I will help him depart this life. I WAS PISSED TOTALLY It is 
people like this useless ass hole Kithcart that the management respects 
I still don't know why never will know this I found out his mentor was 
J.M.Moonshower I had doubts about him too.

John and I say about 3 or 4 miles out the whole sky was lit up as the 
locomotives were on fire lying down on their sides next to the river as 
we were on rt 80. We saw the wreck and I could have cried lumber all 
over cars on top of each other I wanted to kill Kithcart. Korpits told 
me to calm down as he will get his I said YEA he sure will. I got to the 
sight looking for my crew and found them but the head man was found down 
the river dead Mc manus was the engineer I believe I tried to find out 
who and when in my records but I can't find it yet.I looked all over to 
find Kithcart but I did find Arden Santulli Trainmaster from Scranton. 
He was a good guy and he felt the same way I felt about Kithcart he 
wanted to kill him too as M.S. Harvey told him that I reported this 
track condition to Kithcart personally and nothing was done about this 
by Kithcart. I was never so pissed in my life I said to Santulli what 
his phone number is I want to talk to this idiot now. John Korpita 
talked me out of it and told me to call Fuller at home which I did 
Fuller wanted to see me in his office the next day so we could bring a 
law suit against the Erie Lackawanna via the president Maxwell who he 
called before I got to the office.

I saw the letter and THAT WAS THE LAST I EVER HEARD ABOUT THIS 
DISASTER......KITHCART NEVER WAS REMOVED NEVER He just retired a few 
years later working for CLOWNRAIL and died. So now he is rotting in hell 
where he belongs. I saw the 3064 in Milwaukee Wisc in 1980 in the 
Milwaukee roads shops as a rusted shell when I worked for Amtrak....sad 
sad Mike Wikman 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Hoeft [

 

Subject: RE: [CRRNJ] Re: ES99 Sept 12, 1975

Joe I'll hope that Mike Wikman jumps in and finishes this as ES-99 and 
SE-98 were his pets. In fact these trains are what brought him to the 
CNJ from the  EL. Mike is a member of the NERS group and I believe also 
of this group. He currently is a self employed consultant and locomotive 
instructor working out of San Antonio, Texas. Mike was a RFE on the EL. 
He frequently spoke of a Jim Lyons, if he is familiar to you.

Mike had been with the old Edison MUs at Gladstone but was put with the 
Scranton-Eport jobs after they came on the scene when Timpany pulled the 
CNJ out of Pennsylvania in 1972. Mike quickly got qualified on the CNJ 
and the CNJ's problematical High Bridge Branch became a project with 
him. The CNJ Superintendent was Don Nelson and he quickly recognized 
Wikman's superior ability in train handling in this difficult area. 
Nelson convinced Trustee Bob Timpany that we (the CNJ) needed Wikman. 
Those 24 miles from High Bridge to HO Jct. and the mile beyond with the 
reverse move between the  CNJs Lake Jct. and the ELs Chester Jct. had 
more scars on the ties than spikes. Since ES-99 and SE-98 were the 
brainchildren of Bob Timpany, he agreed to hire Wikman in the hopes of 
improving their performance. Mike can give you the inside story on the 
wreck at Point Gap. I will cc: this directly to MIke in case he is not 
on the CRRNJ Yahoo site. Bob Hoeft





Here's the FRA report not sure if it will display properly. Search for 
it here:

http://www.safetydata.fra.dot.gov

This is a copy of the original FRA report of the CNJ-EL wreck at
Point of Gap Curve...It can be found at safetyreports.fra.gov. There
was no DOT report filed or at least it's not online if it was...This
FRA report also shows no Fatalities....I'm not disputing someone who
was there I'm just showing what this report shows...


Rich C



DERAILMENT on Sep 10 1975 Central RR Co. Of
New Jersey [CNJ ] RR Report 1029B
Involving FREIGHT TRAIN at 8 :18PM Erie Lackawanna RR
[EL ]
Locos(Total/derailed) 3/3 in Pennsylvania Erie Lackawanna RR
[EL ] Track Maintenance RR
Cars(Total/derailed) 59/13 County
of

Speed 037 Eqp Dmg $546,850 Near or in SLATEFORD
JCT


HAZARDOUS MATERIAL

4 cars carrying hazmat 2 damaged/derailed 2
cars released 0 people evacuated


....................Track
information....................

Main Damage $0 Milepost FRA Class 2 Total
Casualties: 0 Deaths and 0 Injured
Method(s) of operation    Cause(s)
Automatic block    Other miscellaneous causes

Traffic control



****Additional Report(s) filed by other railroads, or because of
involvement of other equipment or track****


DERAILMENT on Sep 10 1975 Erie Lackawanna RR
[EL ] RR Report 9SCRA3
Involving FREIGHT TRAIN at 8 :4 PM Central RR Co. Of
New Jersey [CNJ ]
Locos(Total/derailed) 3/3 in Pennsylvania Erie Lackawanna RR
[EL ] Track Maintenance RR
Cars(Total/derailed) 58/13 County of
MONROE

Speed 029 Eqp Dmg $0 Near or in
STROUDBURG



HAZARDOUS
MATERIAL

4 cars carrying hazmat 2 damaged/derailed 2
cars released 0 people evacuated

Track information

Main Damage $11,243 Milepost 75.5 FRA Class 2 Total
Casualties: 0 Deaths and 0 Injured
Method(s) of operation    Cause(s)....
Traffic control   Other miscellaneous causes

------------------------------