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(erielack) Some list things (i.e. message length due to including previous messages in response)

Listers:

Message length has again been raised as an issue with listmembers as it 
occurs with people simply hitting 'reply' on their browsers.  I agree that 
it is causing an unnecessary increase in list length and is an issue with 
members regardless of the form they chose to receive their mail in (i.e. 
real time vrs. daily digests).

On 6/30 and 7/1, both Dave Goessling and Dale Madison expressed their views 
on the burgeoning size of list messages and the amount of time and 
inconvenience of reading them.  Their posts are as follows:

In-Reply-To: <200407010932.i619W1Vq084256_@_net.bluemoon.net>
Date:	Thu, 01 Jul 2004 09:08:05 -0400
From:	Dale Madison <gobills_@_ncweb.com>
Subject:	(erielack) Digest Mode
>Date:	Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:42:20 -0400
>From:	David M Goessling <dgoessling_@_lucent.com>
>Subject:	(erielack) Re:some list things
>
>not EL related, but list related:
>
>I'm getting a bit cross-eyed trying to read the list lately! (I get the 
digest
>version) - everyone seems to be leaving *every* bit of *every* previous
>message
>in a thread, whether it's relevant or not. So, just a friendly request to
>maybe
>do of a bit of selective editing when replying. thanks


I second that request for the same reason.  Thanks all.


Dale

I agree wholeheartedly with both of them, both in form and in spirit.  I 
offer the following observation of mine as a most illuminating example:

In regards to a recent thread of safety concerns with Comet V's discussed 
earlier this week (i.e. subsequent to 6/27), one message towards the end of 
the digest, took up approx. 1/3 of the total space devoted in that day's 
digest.  I kept clicking below the scroll bar in its space or hitting the 
'page down' key for what seemed to be an eternity.

To top it off, when I reached the bottom of the message in question, there 
was seven (7) carets (> symbol) between the margin and the text of the 
first message that had been responded to.  Carets (>) are added by the 
system each time a message is replied to.  The number of carets shown 
before each line of text in the message, the number of times it's been 
included in a reply.  In other words, through the beauty of the 'reply' 
function on your email system, the same message had been included through 
subsequent replies 7 times further.  I thought I was going to be hypnotized 
by watching the number of carets increase from one, then a few pages down, 
to two, a few more pages down to three etc.

This in my sincerest opinion has gotten out of hand and results in a 
significant increase in reading time for members and a major inconvenience 
/annoyance.

What is perceived as a major convenience for one person (i.e. author of the 
email who is responding) and a minor inconvenience for the reader, is very 
different in reality.   A small concession to the author ends up as a major 
inconvenience for the readers, who have to sift through all the old 
correspondence being included over and over again.

It is, in my sincerest opinion, not explainable by just merely arguing that 
it's a few 'page down' strokes to skip over it.  These are many, many 'page 
down' strokes that are being done by the dozens of people who read these 
messages every day.

In other words, a small convenience for one person (i.e. the author) is 
bringing about a great inconvenience for the multiple readers of the list 
(i.e. the originator of an email benefits (one person), the many readers of 
the list do not (several people)).

My suggestion for list policy, which I offer as purely suggestion for 
consideration and debate among the list members, is that responders to list 
threads cut and paste the most recent posting they are reply to, thus 
eliminating the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. generation of 'ancestor' replies that 
add unnecessary bulk to the list and makes the list far more readable and 
less of a chore.  The result would be the author's reply and a reference 
only to the latest post he / she (are there any she's on the list??) has 
responded to, which the reader can refer to establish the subject matter 
the reply is being made to.

I will supply an example to illustrate.  In the instance I mentioned above, 
there were seven 'ancestor' messages.  Under my suggestion, 'ancestor' 
generations 2 - 7 would be eliminated with just the reply and the 1st 
'ancestor' generation remaining (also note here that the 7th one also 
appeared in generations 1 - 6, so we were treated to the 7th one 7 times, 
6th one 6 times, and so forth ....  this certainly well illustrates how 
'clogged' the digest version has become!!).

The list has archives, so if one wishes to 'drill down' further into the 
genesis of the thread it would merely be the case of visiting the archives 
on the date the message being replied to was originated and then going back 
down through the 'layers' by date.

I just wanted to share my observations and suggestions for improving the 
list reading experience with my fellow members.

I welcome you comments.

Regards,

Chris Thurner

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