Re: (erielack) FW: Sunday after the convention

["Schuyler G Larrabee" <sgl2_@_ix.netcom.com>]

Ken, there's another reason for that (especially considering, for state
highways, the state has eminent domain powers).  It's called section
corrections.  You know that out there in the flat lands the land is gridded.
Well, latitude lines are parallel for as far as they go.  Meridian lines,
though, aren't.  At some interval, not uniform in dimension as you move N-S,
the lines are "corrected" so that townships remain (at some standard
dimension which I think is) 10 miles square.  The highways were built on the
lines between sections, so when they came to the latitude line where the
corrections take place, what you describe happens.

I remember this because one of my wife's professors had a very graphic
description of what happens when the 18-year-olds get drunk and go hootin'
down the road at high rates of speed, and >forget< about section corrections
. . . the come to a stop about 100 feet out into the corn . . .

SGL
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <erie910_@_harborbeach.com>
To: "Schuyler G Larrabee" <sgl2_@_ix.netcom.com>; "Erie Lackawanna List"
<erielack_@_lists.railfan.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: (erielack) FW: Sunday after the convention


> Thanks to all who provided info on this.
>
> The route, perhaps, was dictated by what land was available.  If one
drives
> Indiana state highways, one OFTEN comes to a stop, a 90-degree turn for a
> few hundred feet, a stop, and a 90-degree turn for another hundred
> feet.  Some landowner wouldn't sell land to the state, so the route was
> built to fit.  Perhaps that, rather than grade considerations, drove the
> Erie route?
>
>
> Ken
>
>
> At 10:06 AM 10/5/02 -0400, Schuyler G Larrabee wrote:
> >I suspect that the rails came first (there were hardly any buildings
around
> >in them thar days) and that the buildings got built close to the tracks
for
> >exactly the reason you suggest.
> >
> >I do wonder, though, about the curvy route.  Not all of the curves appear
> >(to the naked eye in the field, anyway) to have been motivated by
conforming
> >the grade to the existing slope of the land, attempting to "minimize" the
> >grade of the track.
> >
> >SGL
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ken" <erie910_@_harborbeach.com>
> >To: "Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul)" <paultup_@_lucent.com>;
> ><erielack_@_lists.railfan.net>
> >Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 8:32 PM
> >Subject: Re: (erielack) FW: Sunday after the convention
> >
> >
> > > I couldn't help wondering after reading this saga as to whether, on
the
> >old
> > > Main Line, the railroad or the close-in buildings came first.  Seems
that
> > > railroads attracted close buildings to minimize the costs of sidetrack
> > > construction.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken B.
> > >
> > > At 10:40 AM 10/3/02 -0400, Tupaczewski, Paul R (Paul) wrote:
> > > >From: Schuyler Larrabee [mailto:sgl2_@_laai.net]
> > > >Subject: Sunday after the convention
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >I took the Orange County tour on Sunday after the convention.  Spent
the
> > > >day with Mike Quinn, who's a NYS Trooper, (occasionally helpful . .
.)
> >and
> > > >three other ELHS members.  Since I can't recall all three, I won't
> >mention
> > > >any of their names.  We left about 8:45 AM, and went to Mill RIft
bridge
> > > >first, on the NYS side, which I'd never been to before. You could see
the
> > > >D&H Canal, and during the day we learned why that's Bridge No 2 on
the
> > > >Erie.  Bridge No 1 was between Port J and the river, where the canal
went
> > > >back to the north side of the tracks.  This apparently was a location
> >with
> > > >quite a large number of tracks crosssing the canal as it was, even in
> >those
> > > >days, part of the yard.
> > > >
> > > >Then we went to Graham, high up on the west side of Shawangunk
Mountain,
> > > >which is the final west-end junction between the low-grade Graham
line
> >and
> > > >the original Main Line which went over the top through Otisville.
It's
> > > >here you can see clearly that "low-grade" is a completely relative
term!
> > > >  Then on up to Otisville, with a quick stop to see where the road
now
> > > >occupies a short section of the line west of town.  Located the
station
> > > >site, now a parking lot, and then went down to the present Metro
North
> > > >station location.  From there we went pretty directly to Maybrook,
where
> > > >the local Museum was opened just for us.  Doug Barbario was there to
> >assist
> > > >in interpretation, and to provide some guidance on details of what
we'd
> > > >already seen.  Spent a very short hour here, a lot more time would be
> > > >justified.
> > > >
> > > >Then to Chester, where the station is on a curve and a significant
grade.
> > > >  The station is recycled as the local historical society's building,
> >along
> > > >with an art gallery/display space (nice stuff on display!). The
tracks
> >are
> > > >gone here, converted to a bicycle/walking trail which sees some
pretty
> > > >serious use.  There's also a significant hunk of concrete in a
parking
> >lot
> > > >across the way, a track bumper, since there used to be a small yard
here.
> > > >  In Doug's superb PowerPoint program he showed a slide of this
location,
> > > >with an Erie steel stockcar in that yard.  I asked why a stock car
would
> >be
> > > >spotted here, and learned that there used to be an abbatoir in
Chester.
> > > >  According to the local citizens the stock used to be driven in the
> >streets
> > > >across town.  And this is NYS, not Colorado!
> > > >
> > > >The day got interesting here. One of out party wanted to catch Metro
> >North
> > > >at Salisbury Mills, just east of Moodna Viaduct, which was to be on
the
> > > >tour.  Just out of Chester, going north, we came upon a just-occurred
> >auto
> > > >accident with the local Fire and Police in somewhat exaggerated
> >attendance,
> > > >and they proceeded to hold up traffic (for no really good reason) for
a
> > > >good half-hour, so the Salisbury connection was missed.  So, with a
> > > >somewhat relaxed schedule we proceeded up through Blooming Grove and
> > > >Washingtonville, where Mike pointed out the former ERIE station on
the
> > > >Newburgh branch (you would never know) and on down to the Viaduct.
Our
> > > >rail-borne passenger decided to go to Beacon, and catch a Metro North
or
> > > >Amtrak train to GCT, so he could connect to Penn Station for his
Amtrak
> > > >train to Rhode Island.  On the way there, east on Route 94, we
spotted
> >the
> > > >former O&W ROW, the Newburgh branch coming into town, and the
Newburgh
> > > >Short Cut.
> > > >
> > > >By now, we're down to just Mike and me, since the other two either
went
> >on
> > > >the layout tour, or had a commitment in Easton PA to get to.  Mike, a
> >very
> > > >courteous man, bore with me, and we went to Greycourt, where the L&HR
> > > >crossed (and the NYS&W still does cross) the old ERIE line (now the
bike
> > > >trail).  Then to Goshen, where the station is now the City Police
> >station.
> > > >  Here we were able to sort out the root of the Montgomery Branch,
and
> >(sort
> > > >of) figure out where the tracks went south on the Pine Island branch.
> > > >  These two branches were really pretty much the main line for the
L&NE
> >on
> > > >its way to Maybrook.  We went south from here attempting to find
traces
> >of
> > > >the Pine Island Branch, with only two successes (and that's not for a
> >lack
> > > >of back-road wandering looking for traces).  In Florida, NY, we found
a
> >bit
> > > >of ROW, and a lumber yard with doors spaces at 40' on the road side,
with
> > > >just enough space for there to have once been a track there.  In Pine
> > > >Island, where the once-station is now a back room for the local NAPA
auto
> > > >parts store.  It was pretty hard to imagine that this was a location
> >where
> > > >L&NE 2-10-0's and ABBA FAs hauled long strings of anthracite to
Maybrook.
> > > >  North of where the tracks were in front of the station, the
neighbors
> >have
> > > >filled in the depression where the tracks would have been and there's
> >trees
> > > >there that were probably planted a year or so after the tracks were
> >pulled
> > > >out.  You cannot identify where those tracks used to be . . .
> > > >
> > > >One thing I was pretty amazed about was the grades on the old Main
Line.
> > > >  It's perfectly clear why the Graham Line was built.  The old line
had
> > > >steep (!) grades, sharp (!) curves (often at the same time) and was
> > > >surrounded very tightly by buildings and rock faces all along the
line.
> >It
> > > >was clearly a line from the 1840's.  It's really surprising it
survived
> >as
> > > >long as it did.
> > > >
> > > >I have to extend deep appreciation to Mike Quinn, who provided a long
> >day's
> > > >ride (we got back to Matamoras about 5:30 PM) and pleasant company.
> > > >
> > > >Schuyler
> > >
>

------------------------------