Re: (erielack) Re: No Erie Hudsons or Trainmasters or Tavern-Lounges

[gelwood <"gelwood_@_dnaco.net">]

The Baldwins were freight engines. They were using on ore drags out of
Cleveland. I remember on engineer say he like the pulling power but they
didn't ride very well.  Check my WEB site for photos of these engines.

For the mail group - I just added 40 ERIE photos - mostly freight cars. 

George Elwood
http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood

On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Ken wrote:

> Your comment about Erie and Baldwin caught my eye.  I seem to remember that,
> in Erie Power, mention is made of Baldwin road switchers, perhaps more than
> one MU'd, handled the Cleveland-Youngstown commuter run much of the time.
> Were those 4-motor or 6-motor engines?  If 4-motor, the Erie had more than
> one.  Unfortunately, I loaned someone the book, so I can't check the diesel
> roster!
> 
> 
> Ken B.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "G" <"jimg_@_newcommunity.org">
> To: "Phoebe Westbound" <"pipesnlinen_@_mkl.com">; "EL LIST"
> <"erielack_@_internexus.net">
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 12:09 PM
> Subject: (erielack) Re: No Erie Hudsons or Trainmasters or Tavern-Lounges
> 
> 
> > Matt,
> >
> > Thanks for the interesting note.  You are right, the DL&W was always more
> > passenger minded than the Erie.  When they were buying their "big steam
> power"
> > in the late 20s, they obviously kept passengers in mind -- i.e., the
> Hudsons
> > and the dual service Poconos.  Obviously the Erie motive power people
> focused
> > on freight service needs with the Berks; the best they could do for
> passengers
> > was to modernize the big Pacifics.  Another unimaginable loco would be an
> Erie
> > Hudson! Even in the diesel days, the DL&W obviously still had dual service
> on
> > its mind when ordering big power, i.e. the Trainmasters (although the
> primary
> > intent for them was fast freight). From what I've heard, the FMs could
> pull
> > heavy loads but were also fast accelerators, thus making them feasible for
> > secondary passenger runs.  It makes sense, since the FM O.P. engine was
> > designed for WW2 submarine service, where fast get-aways were needed.  By
> > comparison, when the Erie needed six-motor diesel power, they went to
> Baldwin
> > for heavy duty lugging units that were never meant to pull passengers (the
> > 1150s).  As to Baldwins, the Erie did try one 4-motor Baldwin road
> switcher in
> > passenger service, the 1140 I believe. Obviously it wasn't repeat-ordered
> and I
> > think it was kept mainly in freight service, although I recall once seeing
> a
> > block sheet at WJ Tower Ridgewood showing it pulling a Suffern local in
> 1964!
> >
> > As to passenger cars -- the neat thing about the Erie was that a lot of
> the old
> > stuff that ran on the Erie Limited in the 30s and 40s survived into the
> 60s and
> > 70s.  E.g., the old 2200 series coaches that were rebuilt into the
> round-roof
> > 1000s, but a few kept the clerestory roof, i.e. the 1100 series (recall
> the
> > 1105 that lasted in commuter service as a club car into the early 1970s in
> EL
> > grey-maroon).  The surviving diners got rebuilt with round roofs, but a
> few of
> > the section sleepers stayed in passenger service into EL days, #75-77.
> Even
> > after the long-haul passenger trains died off,  they lingered on in work
> train
> > service (renumbered).  I think they retained their original roof design,
> > clerestory with A/C bulges.  From the photos I've seen, the Erie Limited
> of the
> > 40s had head end cars, three 2200 series coaches, a diner, and a sleeper.
> But
> > the Depression version had 2 or 3 coaches and a combined sleeper - diner -
> > lounge with solarium windows at the lounge end.  A very cramped car, no
> doubt;
> > obviously in the 30s, not many could afford Pullman space or dinner in the
> > diner.  I gather that the Erie Limited never had a true observation car
> any
> > time after the 1920s, and that lounge space was limited to the diner.
> (Again,
> > contrast with the DL&W buying full-car tavern-lounge observations around
> 1950
> > for the Snow, and keeping old parlor cars in service through the 50s).
> >
> > Overall, the different attitude between the Erie and the DL&W regarding
> > passengers is summarized by their imaginary corporate spokespersons:
> Smiley the
> > puppet loco engineer vs. Phoebe Snow the demanding passenger.  Smiley
> obviously
> > didn't mind some dust and cinders, whereby Phoebe was the Martha Stewart
> of the
> > 1910s and 20s.
> >
> > Jim Gerofsky
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Visit the erielack photopage at http://el-list.railfan.net
> >
> 
> 
>  ------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit the erielack photopage at http://el-list.railfan.net
> 


 ------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the erielack photopage at http://el-list.railfan.net

------------------------------