Re: (erielack) RE: commuter rail-

["Chas. Cacioppo" <"modelrailroad.guide_@_miningco.com">]

Al, 
I read your post with interest detailing the ELs commuter subsidy from NJ, etc.

The figures I recall for the EL passenger losses from the late 60s' 
was (as I remember it put as) 
"the burgeoning losses from passenger service 
had run a deficit of some 8 million dollars per year".

Looking for some validity if this figure, we all know it was a large loss.

Charlie
At 09:17 AM 05/18/99 -0400, AL TILLOTSON wrote:
>New Jersey's operating subsidy payments to the EL (and other railroads) date
>back to at least 1961, when over $2 million in subsidy payments were made to
>the EL (that's about $11.5 million in "today" dollars).  The amounts increased
>dramatically in the late 1960's, and capital equipment purchases started
>thereafter too (like the U34's).  I recall EL officers quoted to the effect
>that NJ commuter service was not a financial issue from the late 60's on.
>
>One of Conrail's commuter fears was liability for labor protection.  The
>legislation creating CR included substantial earnings guarantees to workers. 
>There was a fund created by the Feds to pay for these guarantees, but it had a
>fixed amount.
>
>The concern was if commuter agencies pulled the plug on commuter trains,
>commuter workers would be entitled to earnings guarantees from the CR
>legislation, which would unexpectedly drain the fund set up by the Feds, and
>place subsequent financial obligations directly in Conrail's lap.  And at that
>time things were a little dicey for most commuter agencies, so plug
pulling was
>not beyond the realm of possibility.
>
>AJT
>
>
>>In reference to the comment below, back in 1971 when Amtrak took over,
none of
>>the current commuter rail operators existed in their current format.  No one
>was
>>giving out millions in 1971 to anyone for commuter operation, and there
was no
>>one champing at the bit to operate competing intercity service to Amtrak.
 All
>>of the private RRs wanted out of the commuter business, even more than they
>>wanted out of the intercity business.  Losses on commuter services far
>exceeded
>>intercity losses for the railroads with big commuter operations.
>>
>>In 1971, when Amtrak came along, there were only a few locations in the US
>where
>>there was public funding for commuter rail.  NJ bought the U34CHs for EL, the
>>GP40Ps for CNJ, and some minimal operating support.  New York state owned
>LIRR,
>>and provided capital and operating support.  Connecticut bought new MUs for
>Penn
>>Central for the Connecicut service, and New York state bought some for the
>>Hudson/Harlem lines.  Everything else was privately owned, funded and
>operated.
>>
>>What changed things was the creation of Conrail in 1976, and Conrail's desire
>to
>>get out of the commuter business at the same time as the energy crises, and
>>increasing awareness of transportation issues.  People began to realize that
>>they would lose all rail commuter service unless public authorities
stepped in
>>and began funding and/or directly operating commuter services.  So, mid-late
>>70s/early 80s was the birth of the public commuter rail operators.  Prior to
>>this, there was no issue of anyone wanting to operate longer-distance
commuter
>>operations that Amtrak would consider "competition".
>	
>
>
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